A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein - The Liberal Wine Moms are Radicalizing (with Jennifer Welch)

00:00:00.000 why does israel get free health care and americans are facing medical bankruptcy 0.55

00:00:05.100 why do israelis get free education and americans don't and we spend send them

00:00:10.980 billions upon billions of dollars why are your tax dollars subsidizing this

00:00:14.920 hello hello and welcome back to a bit fruity i'm matt bernstein i'm so happy that you're here

00:00:27.400 There's a common adage that as you get older, you get more conservative.

00:00:32.300 No one is showing how false this can be, quite like Jennifer Welch.

00:00:36.100 When you're bought and paid for by AIPAC, you're not authentic. 1.00

00:00:40.840 You're Benjamin Netanyahu's bitch, period. 1.00

00:00:43.780 So listen up, democratic establishment. 1.00

00:00:46.820 You can either jump on board with this shit, or we're coming after you in the same way 1.00

00:00:51.960 that we come after MAGA. 1.00

00:00:53.140 When I look at people, if I were to say who's more Christ-like, I would pick AOC and the atheist Jew Bernie Sanders and the Muslim Zoran Mamdani a million times over you, Riley Gaines, because Riley Gaines, all you do is hate on people. 0.96

00:01:10.240 You are wound up like a cheap clock over trans people. 0.90

00:01:15.040 You show them no grace, no compassion. 1.00

00:01:18.460 You defend billionaires.

00:01:21.060 You cheer and celebrate when children are zip tied.

00:01:25.600 And then you have the audacity to get on television and try to lecture people who fight for the

00:01:33.360 people that are suffering, that stand and put their arms around people that need sanctuary. 1.00

00:01:38.660 and you try to act like you're better than they are, you will always have been the dumb bitch 1.00

00:01:44.700 that tied for fifth place. And the only place that you can get a job is at bottom feeder Fox 1.00

00:01:51.480 News, you insufferable twat. Hailing from Oklahoma, Jennifer, who co-hosts the liberal 1.00

00:01:58.240 podcast, I've Had It, has built a reputation online as the face of liberal wine moms or 0.94

00:02:04.560 resistance liberals or a number of other nicknames which refer to a specific widespread type of

00:02:10.760 person in the U.S., a center liberal who hates Trump and who votes Democrat, but is less likely

00:02:17.060 to critique Democrats or the role capitalism plays in our politics or our government's bewildering

00:02:23.840 and bipartisan support for genocide in Palestine. Think like, you know, a lot of you responded to

00:02:29.980 my episode about bill maher being like my liberal parents love bill maher it's like oftentimes those

00:02:35.100 types of people you know since the 2024 election though jennifer has changed her tune in a recent

00:02:42.400 interview she said quote i'm gonna quote you here jennifer the democratic establishment is maga

00:02:48.080 light they have the same donors and regarding a recent rally for zaron mamdani the progressive

00:02:53.840 candidate for mayor in new york city please get out and vote who most mainstream democrats have

00:02:59.100 avoided or even slandered, Jennifer said, quote, Hakeem Jeffries, the Democratic leader in the

00:03:05.020 House, and Chuck Schumer, the Democratic leader in the Senate. Hakeem and Chuck should have been

00:03:09.100 front and center introducing the next mayor of New York City. But no, they wouldn't show up

00:03:14.920 because they're pussies. They're pussies that are beholden to the same corporations 1.00

00:03:19.420 that helped Donald Trump get elected. Jennifer is a wine mom radicalized. And today she's here 1.00

00:03:28.200 to talk about what energized her politics forward and the plea that she and I are making

00:03:34.320 to the Democratic Party so that we can not only stop losing, but start actually standing

00:03:39.600 for something. Jennifer, welcome to A Bit Fruity.

00:03:43.700 Thank you, Matt. I'm so happy to be here. I was so excited when you DMed me to come

00:03:48.280 on because you're one of my favorite follows online. I think you do such great thought

00:03:53.880 leadership on instagram that's my main platform that i look at and i followed you forever long

00:03:59.560 before you were on i've had it and i just thought this guy really is a great messenger you're a

00:04:04.060 really good thought leader online oh man that's that's quite a pedestal please don't put me up

00:04:08.780 that high but i appreciate it i thought we could start the episode by talking about something that

00:04:14.780 actually happened between us last year do you know what i'm referring to yes i remember that

00:04:21.200 you were on I've had it and we filmed so much but I remember that maybe you were upset and then

00:04:28.940 after the filming and I don't I don't think it was personal I think it was content upset and I

00:04:35.580 remember messaging you saying don't worry you know we're on the same team or something but you'll have

00:04:40.260 to refresh my memory as to what it was about because we filmed so much and I'm 51 and sometimes

00:04:45.780 i'm not as sharp as i used to be well i think this is just such a good maybe behind the scenes

00:04:53.000 anecdote because basically i went on your podcast last year before the 2024 election

00:04:57.700 and we mostly did an unrelated episode it was like mostly about jk rowing and i had so much

00:05:03.760 fun with you guys yeah at the end you guys and this was like right before the election this was

00:05:10.300 I think it was maybe like in September of 2024 you and your co-host pumps love her to death you

00:05:17.340 were like you know a lot of Gen Z is protesting Kamala Harris for this that and the other reason

00:05:22.560 could you you basically asked me to like speak on behalf of my generation for like a full-throated

00:05:27.880 endorsement of Kamala Harris which I in the moment kind of froze because as someone who

00:05:37.600 was very much tapped into discourse around Palestine and sort of all of the ways that

00:05:42.760 Kamala was falling short as a candidate in ways that we're going to talk about is endemic of the

00:05:48.740 larger Democratic Party today. I was like, I'm voting for her. I canvassed for her in Pennsylvania, 0.57

00:05:57.060 but when it comes to the internet, I'm like, this is a really delicate conversation to have

00:06:01.620 because people have really real reasons why they feel like they can't and those reasons need to

00:06:06.960 be honored and so i kind of just like froze up and i was like i'm scared no matter how i say this

00:06:12.980 like i don't think we should do this part i don't think we should do this part and you guys were so

00:06:18.460 nice about it you were like we'll just cut that part it's all good don't worry we get it but what's

00:06:24.080 funny is that then many months later like more recently i started seeing these videos of you

00:06:29.840 going viral talking about how a pack has fucked up and corrupted the democratic party how all of

00:06:37.060 these things need to change and i was like who is this woman you've really gone on a journey

00:06:43.280 well let me just say this i would probably still ask you the same because at the time there are

00:06:50.240 two people you can vote for sure and as a woman i recently moved to new york but for 51 years i

00:06:57.020 lived in the Bible Belt. And for a lot of people on the coasts that have the luxury of having blue

00:07:04.520 state governments and their civil liberties not being eroded, you can dive into issues like

00:07:12.460 Palestine. If you live in a flyover state with a Christian nationalist government that has a

00:07:19.200 MAGA supermajority and has had a MAGA supermajority for years, and when I'm not a podcaster, I'm an

00:07:25.260 interior designer, so y'all can imagine I have abundant amount of gay friends and always have

00:07:30.200 my entire life. A Kamala Harris presidency for young queer kids in the Bible Belt is a lifeline.

00:07:37.120 It means survival. For a young trans person in Oklahoma, a Kamala Harris presidency means that

00:07:46.660 maybe several of those kids won't commit suicide. And so while I have a lot of criticism for

00:07:55.180 corporate Democrats and have opened my eyes even more because I have had to live around 0.69

00:08:02.860 these cruel MAGA white Christian nationalists and their attacks on marginalized communities, 0.89

00:08:11.860 especially poor people, especially queer people, especially trans people. 0.94

00:08:16.220 I know firsthand that a Kamala Harris presidency for the young trans teen in their high school

00:08:23.580 means survival. It's a lifeline. And so I will criticize the Democratic Party right now until

00:08:32.020 the cows come home. But because of my experience in seeing the LGBTQ plus being bullied by their 1.00

00:08:39.680 government, seeing black and brown people being thrown under their bus and disregarded by their

00:08:44.520 government, I would crawl through 10 feet of concrete, wear off all the skin on my fingertips

00:08:51.520 to vote for a corporate dem over a MAGA conservative, because in those red states,

00:08:59.240 the federal government has been the only thing that has protected these marginalized communities.

00:09:03.880 And I'm sure you have a lot of blue dots and red states that listen to you and they feel isolated

00:09:10.440 and they've been bullied by their parents, their churches, their peers, and now their government.

00:09:15.960 And I was on a conversation last night with a dear friend of mine that lives in Oklahoma,

00:09:19.520 And she has a trans daughter in Oklahoma and all care is illegal now.

00:09:24.800 And they're looking to make parents who travel with their children out of state to seek care, to criminalize that. 0.91

00:09:33.020 So she's going to have to uproot her husband, both of her kids to move to a California or New York to a sanctuary city to be able to raise her daughter, because for her, it is a life or death situation.

00:09:45.200 So I think we have to do two things at the same time, Matt. 0.96

00:09:49.280 I think we have to try to move the leaders we have and the party we have further to the left, get rid of corporate interests, but also we still have this fucked up two-party system. 0.87

00:09:59.740 Yeah. And I totally see that. I think we lost, right, so badly. And my thing is, like, examining the loss requires examining those failures of Palestinians, of trans people in red states, of women in red states. Like, they're all bound up in one another. 0.95

00:10:19.560 And I think now is the time, right, because so many people during the election were saying, wait till after the election to criticize Democrats, wait till we win and then you can push them. But they lost. And I think now part of what we need to do is figure out how to win. And I think where you and I really come together on this is that we need to get corporate money out of the Democratic Party that has turned them into MAGA light.

00:10:44.940 And I want to highlight again, like you mentioned, it's like, well, you know, people in certain areas, they have to prioritize their needs first and those that are, you know, threatened under a Trump presidency. And I do get all of that. And I think I just want to even further clarify my position that it's like, these are all bound up in one another, you know, the safety of trans people, the safety of Palestinians, the ability for politicians to protect any of the rights of those groups of people.

00:11:09.120 because in examining this loss of democrats we're seeing like if you can get paid off to

00:11:16.560 continue to facilitate the genocide of palestinians what can't you be paid off to do

00:11:21.200 and i think that reaches voters that lack of confidence right yeah and and you're 100 correct

00:11:28.680 and we have to do a real autopsy on the fact that we lost two national elections to a total 1.00

00:11:36.280 fucking moron. I mean, an unqualified convicted felon, racist, adjudicated rapist proven in court 1.00

00:11:45.000 to be a fraud, bankrupted casinos. We lost two major elections to this man. And that requires 0.99

00:11:55.320 a massive autopsy. And in my own personal kind of looking at this, listening to others,

00:12:02.360 you're right and a lot of people when they start tracking this it goes back to the corporate donors

00:12:09.480 and it goes back to the scotus decision of citizens united and there is a especially when

00:12:17.220 you get to democratic leadership right now like hakeem jeffries chuck schumer cory booker

00:12:22.480 why it's such a layup right now why can't they say benjamin netanyahu is a war criminal

00:12:29.360 he needs to be arrested and it is a genocide and we are the anti-war party period and they can't

00:12:38.080 because they take the same money and when you find out that apac gave trump 350 million the

00:12:43.120 same amount as elon must did that's pretty devastating we'll go through different pieces

00:12:47.700 of this sort of autopsy and like what shifted you further to the left and how you're thinking about

00:12:52.080 what democrats should do moving forward but i want to first for anyone who's listening to this

00:12:56.980 that doesn't really know about you and this Southern twang? Who are you? Where do you come

00:13:03.540 from? And what got you to this point? So I was born in Dallas, Texas and lived there until halfway

00:13:12.560 through grade school. And then we moved, my family moved to Oklahoma City and I lived there forever,

00:13:17.780 went to the University of Oklahoma, lived there up until a month ago. Married, two sons, interior

00:13:23.680 designer, was raised by atheists, very progressive atheists, which is a very bizarre upbringing in

00:13:31.840 the buckle of the Bible belt. My mother is 82 years old. She's still alive. And she despises

00:13:39.120 religion like you wouldn't believe. And I just was never indoctrinated into any religion.

00:13:44.880 And when you live around right-wing politics and you're somewhat enlightened and not brainwashed

00:13:51.140 by like Southern Baptist ideology or white evangelicalism, it's really off-putting.

00:13:56.640 So I've always been incredibly political throughout even my whole interior design career.

00:14:00.540 I've always been into politics, very interested in politics, hosted political fundraisers

00:14:06.460 for all the Democrats in Oklahoma that lost all of their races.

00:14:09.060 And, you know, I've always had my hat in the game.

00:14:13.360 And so Pumps and I were on a Bravo television show in 2016 to around 2019 called Sweet Home

00:14:20.120 Oklahoma we did two seasons it was a total blast and then our kids about three years ago were like

00:14:26.440 you you guys still have people that like follow your Instagram and want y'all to come back on you

00:14:30.640 should do a podcast and I was like everybody has a podcast like that's they're like you should just

00:14:34.680 try it so we tried it and I can't help but talk about politics like anybody who's known me for

00:14:42.340 the last 30 years would say oh Jennifer's very political and so I can't our show was about daily 0.98

00:14:48.060 grievances, but in the Trump era, he's the biggest fucking grievance we all deal with. So it would 0.98

00:14:53.340 just start oozing out. Pumps, my co-host, was a right-wing evangelical Republican Christian,

00:15:01.100 the only adult friend that I had that was like that. But our friends were best friends.

00:15:07.460 And over the course of the last maybe seven or eight years, she became kind of enlightened

00:15:13.040 and kind of spun out of her religion. And then she started getting really progressive,

00:15:17.840 She was never political before. Like I remember her voting for like George Bush. Nobody liked George Bush like me and all my gay friends didn't. That's who I always met with in Oklahoma. And so she got really political. It was more difficult for her at first to speak out about politics because her family's still super MAGA. All of her friends are super Christian, super MAGA. But it's been so fun to see her get her voice and her courage and her kind of speak up because I know that they're like, oh, shit, she used to be on our team.

00:15:45.380 But I was always the skunk at the garden party, Matt, in Oklahoma. I'm always the liberal. I'm always the atheist. Always. That's always been me. 0.99

00:15:54.780 The skunk at the garden party.

00:15:57.240 Yeah.

00:15:58.920 In many ways, I think the one thing that makes us so novel that we're middle-aged, Fox News coded looking, Fox News coded sounding. 0.96

00:16:08.580 Oh, shit, where were these women on January 6th? 1.00

00:16:10.620 And then we start spitting liberal stuff. 1.00

00:16:12.480 I think the thing that makes us novel is also kind of sad that we are such an outlier.

00:16:19.320 outlier because a lot of people liberals in red states will tell you liberals in red states are 0.99

00:16:25.300 just built different because you you face the fuckery of red state bullshit every single day 0.99

00:16:33.340 i mean like we had superintendent of school in oklahoma named ryan walters who every single 1.00

00:16:39.400 day posted a video about how homophobic or transphobic he was and guess what oklahoma's

00:16:44.840 ranked in education 40 50th oh 50th i thought it was 47 50th yeah we just we just bumped down to

00:16:50.760 50th under his leadership so i want to get into this autopsy of the democratic party as you and

00:16:58.800 i see it right now i know that a big part of your sort of radicalization if i may and my own was

00:17:07.480 learning about APAC. APAC is like, if there was one lobby, but broadly just like one political

00:17:14.980 power in the United States that I wish people knew about, that I wish it was like a household

00:17:19.980 name like the NRA is, I wish everybody knew about APAC. Because learning about this, it changed

00:17:26.760 my brain chemistry with respect to how I think about the US government. Have you, the listener,

00:17:31.700 ever wondered why the United States continues its bipartisan support of what the biggest human

00:17:38.500 rights organizations have ruled a genocide? Why even when 142 members of the UN voted to

00:17:44.560 recognize Palestinian statehood, the US was one of just 10 that didn't? Why Kamala Harris's 2024

00:17:51.580 position on Israel was, barring some fluffy platitudes about peace, indistinguishable from

00:17:57.040 Trump's. That is because of pro-Israel lobbying groups, the biggest of which is AIPAC, the American

00:18:04.020 Israel Public Affairs Committee. Jennifer, I have seen you rail against AIPAC. And so I want you to

00:18:11.580 tell people who are unfamiliar with AIPAC what it is and what the hell is going on here.

00:18:16.040 Okay. Like Matt said, they are a lobbying group and they donated $350 million to Donald Trump's reelection campaign. They preferred him. They wanted him. The ceasefire deal that just happened, Joe Biden had that deal. Trump and Netanyahu spiked it.

00:18:39.280 The genocide continued. And then two weeks before the Nobel Peace Prize, because that's what Trump wanted so bad, the timing of this faux ceasefire that they're rolling out, they did. And Joe Biden and Kamala Harris had that same deal during the campaign. And Benjamin Netanyahu wanted Donald Trump. A lot of these strong, corrupt men want Donald Trump.

00:19:02.820 And here's what's so fascinating about AIPAC, you guys. So they want a corrupt politician so that they can fleece Americans and they can guide and direct American foreign policy. But they also want to control politicians. So when you start to open up your eyes to this, it enrages you because like, here's a prime example of where I really got pissed off about this.

00:19:25.760 cory booker likable great speaker good looking you know youngish and it's like okay he's a cool

00:19:33.840 senator he's a cool member of the democratic party he does a 25 hour filibuster standing up

00:19:40.120 for civil liberties and black and brown folks and democracy and you're like yeah somebody gives a

00:19:46.360 he cares and then benjamin netanyahu rolls into the united states of america and this is you know

00:19:53.320 Peak genocide. And you would think this guy is toxic as all get out. And then there's a photo shoot by partisan senators standing there. And Cory Booker was kind of like hiding behind somebody. And then you start digging into it. And there's an article from a few years ago where Cory Booker had told a journalist that he and his contact at APAC text like teenagers.

00:20:15.840 And he's taken like a million dollars in AIPAC money. And so has Hakeem Jeffries. And then you realize, okay, wait a minute. So this lobby wants to control the United States of America. And if you speak out against Israel, you're going to be told that you're an anti-Semite while they fund the most anti-Semitic political party that America has right now.

00:20:40.820 All of the anti-Semites, you guys, are in Maga, full stop.

00:20:45.880 And all of the place where I grew up, Oklahoma City, you have all these Christian Zionists. 0.85

00:20:50.980 And look, these are the people I call the rapture preppers. 1.00

00:20:53.980 And they are sitting around prepping for the rapture.

00:20:57.400 And this is how little they think of Jewish people. 0.84

00:20:59.860 In order for Jesus Christ to come back, the Jews have to be in Israel.

00:21:03.860 And then Jesus comes down, sends all the Jews to hell, and then takes the Bible thumpers up to heaven, which is, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, genocide. 0.98

00:21:13.820 And so it's a really fucked up thing once you get into, and as an atheist, never like indoctrinated into anything. 1.00

00:21:21.740 All the religious shit drives me crazy. 1.00

00:21:24.180 But the fact that Democrats are beholden to this same lobby, it makes you so mad. 1.00

00:21:31.120 It makes me so mad.

00:21:32.300 Well, and I have to say, like, as a Jewish person, they hate when I say that. The Zionists hate when I say that. They're always like, oh, yeah, you're going to speak as a Jew? Yes, I will. I see all of these politicians who couldn't be bothered when it comes to really any number of forms of bigotry. I mean, look at the way that they treat Islamophobia across the aisle.

00:21:52.860 But suddenly they all are mysteriously will fight tooth and nail against what they call

00:22:01.120 anti-Semitism, which is always just criticism of Israel, protesting of Israel, calls to stop

00:22:07.920 sending arms to Israel. Like, I really don't think the average voter understand. And none of these

00:22:14.580 Congress people are Jewish, like very, very, very, very, very few of them are Jewish. 0.74

00:22:18.160 Right, right.

00:22:19.160 Which is not to say that they can't be authentic allies to Jews in fighting anti-Semitism, but my friend, that is just very clearly not what is going on here.

00:22:28.640 And I wish the average person understood just the same way that a lot of the people taking money from the NRA don't actually personally care very much about guns one way or another, that these people are just taking AIPAC money.

00:22:41.580 That's why the politicians don't move on this issue.

00:22:44.700 They are being funded up to their gills.

00:22:47.060 And here's the problem, you guys. This is where this is going to get really dangerous for the country. Matt's 100 percent correct that they act like they care about human rights. But whenever you have somebody that cherry picks human rights, like Cory Booker, for example, I care about black and brown kids. I care about these undocumented migrant kids. They shouldn't be zip tied. And he's perfect. Perfect. Stands up for the marginalized. Stands up for the marginalized.

00:23:13.840 except for when you get to Palestinian kids then it gets blurry then he has a strange

00:23:19.120 bedfellow in Ted Cruz Ted Cruz his number one thing is Israel right because he's a rapture 0.98

00:23:24.560 prepper but he doesn't give a shit considering he's Cuban which is weird and we'll leave that 0.99

00:23:28.960 up to the psychologist to analyze that but you know then when it gets to migrant kids he doesn't 0.99

00:23:35.960 give a shit about them and then you hear people like Zoran Mamdani who advocates for everybody 0.96

00:23:41.360 And what Matt has said throughout this whole podcast that we've had is all of these things are connected. 0.99

00:23:47.280 Trans rights are connected to women's rights are connected to, you know, gay rights, queer rights, black rights, brown rights.

00:23:54.900 All of those things are connected. But in this vacuum, you're going to have bad actors that come out.

00:24:00.580 And if the Democratic establishment doesn't get their shit together or step aside, somebody is making a lot of waves right now on the right. 0.96

00:24:08.140 And this is this what I'm about to tell you should terrify everybody. 0.99

00:24:12.240 Marjorie Taylor Greene and Tucker Carlson.

00:24:14.860 Yes.

00:24:16.080 Are making statements that will hit so hard with the MAGA base. 0.58

00:24:22.040 And this is about them demanding, nonstop demanding, America, pay attention to Israel, do what Israel wants, fight Israel's wars and pay for them. 0.62

00:24:31.960 And if you don't, then we're going to come after anyone and everyone that gets in the way of that. 0.76

00:24:38.140 And if you're wondering why people are talking about primarying me, well, it's because I don't

00:24:42.940 take any money from AIPAC. I've called for AIPAC to be registered under Farrah. I've introduced

00:24:48.640 amendments to defund all of our American tax dollars from going to Israel every single year,

00:24:54.780 billions and billions of dollars every single year. We're not mega, we're MAGA.

00:25:00.860 Marjorie Taylor Greene and Tucker Carlson are saying things in a vacuum like this.

00:25:05.160 Well, this isn't America first. These politicians are Israel first and they get free health care and we don't get free health care. And so I'm not going to have a pack come lobby. And so many people where I'm from, you guys, middle Americans are going to go. Yeah, she's right. Well, here's the problem with Marjorie Taylor Greene is Marjorie Taylor Greene's a fucking bigot. Marjorie Taylor Greene is a homophobe. Marjorie Taylor Greene is a transform. She is a grifter.

00:25:35.160 But I'll be goddamned if she didn't shock the shit out of me. She's a lot smarter than I thought she was. And she's manipulative and she's figuring out, oh, I can take the same bigotry that Trump has towards immigrants because that's not going over very well. 1.00

00:25:52.120 You know, rich white folks are seeing their gardeners get deported and their housekeepers getting deported.

00:25:57.540 They're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. 0.89

00:26:00.660 So Marjorie Taylor Greene's like, yeah, we'll go after the Jews. 0.98

00:26:05.480 And her intention is nefarious.

00:26:08.980 But that messaging in a vacuum, the Democrats are leaving it right there again, Matt.

00:26:15.800 Right on the table.

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00:28:10.060 friends over at Rocket Money. The cost of living is high and Trump sure as shit hasn't done anything 0.99

00:28:16.460 to bring it down, which is why please get out this weekend and vote for Zoran Mamdani if you're 0.94

00:28:20.940 listening to this episode right when it comes out, please. Can I say that in an ad? Is it

00:28:25.340 disqualifying? I hope not. Anyway, I like to stay organized about my money and spending and budgets

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00:29:37.060 started. That is rocketmoney.com slash fruity. And now let's get back to the episode.

00:29:45.300 So many people, Jennifer, so many people have been like, why is Tucker Carlson? Why is Marjorie

00:29:52.640 Taylor Greene? Why is Candace Owens? Why are all of these people making more thoughtful statements 1.00

00:29:59.440 on the destruction of Gaza than most Democrats in Congress.

00:30:05.540 But it is a Holocaust, what's happening. 0.70

00:30:06.940 Well, is it though? 0.96

00:30:07.660 Yes.

00:30:08.400 Because I think language is really important.

00:30:09.900 I think language is really important as well.

00:30:11.340 And that's why-

00:30:11.760 People say Holocaust, genocide, and so on. 0.86

00:30:13.020 I think what's happening is a Holocaust,

00:30:14.500 the burning bodies of the children that I'm seeing every day.

00:30:17.280 And we spoke about this a little bit on my show,

00:30:18.620 but like, I have recognized that the ability

00:30:21.280 to see this stuff every day has transformed my opinion.

00:30:24.300 And so I want to use my platform to say that I believe 0.96

00:30:26.320 that they are intentionally executing a Holocaust. 0.85

00:30:28.180 I think Bibi Netanyahu, there's tons of evidence, and obviously the Western media is not reporting on this, but the corruption trials that are going on with Bibi Netanyahu pertaining to October 7th and him editing the transcripts and the prior knowledge that he knew is now becoming extremely pertinent.

00:30:44.300 It is a question as to whether or not he allowed the attacks to take place, essentially, to then be able to go in and to commit this Holocaust against the Palestinians.

00:30:52.900 And I have to very carefully explain to them that those people are actually anti-Semitic. 0.98

00:31:01.100 They're grifters.

00:31:01.960 They're grifters and they're squeezing into a spot where they realize that it's like,

00:31:05.660 like, why is everyone looking?

00:31:06.680 Why are all the politicians looking away from this?

00:31:08.340 This is crazy.

00:31:08.900 And they're realizing that they can exploit a popular sentiment there.

00:31:11.980 But also, like, Tucker Carlson has been the foremost advocate of great replacement theory

00:31:17.500 in this country.

00:31:18.440 Marjorie Taylor Greene believes that like climate change is caused by Jewish space lasers or something. 0.98

00:31:24.720 Candace Owens, Candace Owens, in an interview that she just did with Harvey Weinstein from prison, was continually trying to insinuate that the Jews conspired against Harvey Weinstein.

00:31:36.000 And that's why he's in prison.

00:31:37.780 Have you considered that it could be deeper, that there was somebody who wanted you put away, that there may have been someone who wanted your company?

00:31:43.680 Because to me, there is just overwhelming evidence that you were set up here.

00:31:48.500 I don't know who you upset.

00:31:50.100 I don't know what they were after.

00:31:51.500 I do think that you stepped on somebody's toes.

00:31:53.960 You know, I can't say who.

00:31:55.860 Why not?

00:31:56.460 Why can't you say who?

00:31:57.780 What do you have to lose?

00:31:58.860 Because I'm not sure that I'm right.

00:32:01.660 And you say, I think.

00:32:03.020 I really want to push you on this point, Harvey, because I think it's very significant.

00:32:07.040 I mean, you had the greatest movies that were in Hollywood.

00:32:09.560 You had a lot of power.

00:32:10.400 And I'm wondering if there was anybody in Hollywood that you may have been fighting with at that time.

00:32:15.440 There wasn't a fight per se, but the establishment, I would not say, was my friend's.

00:32:20.420 Right. And who, what is the establishment in Hollywood?

00:32:24.840 It's normally the big studios, but I can't say that they were part of this.

00:32:29.880 Right. No, I'm just wondering, like, who in the end, who owns all those movies now?

00:32:34.760 Who owns your catalog?

00:32:36.080 It's like, these are such anti-Semitic people and their positions are actually related to

00:32:42.740 anti-Semitism.

00:32:43.560 But then I can't even explain that because the AIPAC people have made it so that any

00:32:48.680 criticism of Israel is conflated with anti-Semitism. 0.76

00:32:51.180 And so now I sound like all of these bad faith Zionists. 0.95

00:32:54.800 Thank you for giving me and having you to talk about that. 0.98

00:32:58.100 But the problem with the Marjorie Taylor Greene's, the Tucker Carlson, that messaging, you guys,

00:33:04.080 that very simple messaging remember we start talking about nuanced stuff this very simple

00:33:08.980 messaging marjorie taylor green tucker carlson to say why does israel get free health care and 0.97

00:33:14.000 americans are facing medical bankruptcy and i'm just telling you that's gonna fucking hit hard

00:33:21.240 with everyday american voters why do israelis get free education and americans don't and we spend

00:33:27.720 send them billions upon billions of dollars why are your tax dollars subsidizing this well a true

00:33:33.140 progressive would say, I want everybody to have free health care and access to higher education

00:33:38.020 and all of these things. But they're simplifying this thing down. And in it, it provides the base

00:33:46.200 who is primed to keep hating somebody, like trans people, undocumented migrants, etc. And now they

00:33:52.720 can replace that with the Jews, which is really, really dangerous. So this is the thing that gets 1.00

00:33:59.040 me about all of these fucking fascists and the fascist enablers, APAC, you are playing a short 1.00

00:34:06.340 sighted game. You are getting in bed with the people, the president who, when people marched, 1.00

00:34:12.620 Jews cannot replace us. He says, both sides have good points here, right? You've got his supporters 0.91

00:34:19.140 at these Trump boat rallies, these white trash boat rallies have Nazi flags. His co-president, 1.00

00:34:25.760 Elon Musk is out there doing Sig Hiles. And at some point, those knives are going to be turned

00:34:31.720 at you, APAC. The same with the Latinos for Trump. They found out. They went and colluded with him. 0.99

00:34:37.540 They wanted to vote with him, despite the mass deportations now signs at the Republican National

00:34:42.660 Convention. Now they're all getting deported. The knives are turned at them. Scott Besson,

00:34:47.560 the DL demon queen that runs the Treasury. You want to go saddle up with a bunch of homophobes? 1.00

00:34:52.780 guess what, Scott? At some point, those knives are going to be pointed at you. You're not the 0.98

00:34:57.920 special queen, Scott. You're going to be the first on the chopping block. And so it's this

00:35:02.520 short-sighted thing that people are doing. But the Marjorie, I think Tucker Carlson's going to

00:35:07.180 run for president. And I think Marjorie Taylor Greene possibly could too, or she's running for 0.87

00:35:11.960 Senate or as VP pick. And they are ahead of the curve here and they are out flanking Democrats

00:35:17.440 on this issue. And it's terrifying. And I feel like the solution to that,

00:35:22.560 because we're identifying a lot of problems and how Democrats have been so corrupted by AIPAC,

00:35:28.100 this should be a litmus test for Democrats going forward. That's my opinion. I think

00:35:34.540 if you are taking AIPAC money, I think that's disqualifying. And so many people, especially

00:35:41.040 around the election, were saying, you know, don't criticize Democrats. Now is not the time.

00:35:44.700 Now is the time. I don't talk a whole lot about electoral strategy on this podcast. I talk a lot more about culture and political TV hosts, but I've been waiting for this. And now is the time. I mean, we don't have midterms right now. We don't have a presidential election right now.

00:36:03.200 We are seeing an unapologetically pro-Palestine, pro-trans Democratic socialist about to, God willing, please get out and vote, win for mayor in New York City.

00:36:14.720 We have every reason to believe that like AIPAC should be a litmus test if you want to run for a seat in the Democratic Party.

00:36:22.080 I want to quote Ta-Nehisi Coates here, who said, we are at a moment right now where people are asking themselves, why can't the Democratic Party defend this assault on democracy?

00:36:33.200 And I would submit to you that if you can't draw the line at genocide, you probably can't draw the line at democracy. That's such a good quote. And it's not just like feel good dogma. I think that if you can be bought out by a corporate interest group to the point where you enable genocide, which is exactly what almost every Democrat in the US Congress has done over the last two years, what can't you be corrupted to do? What won't you capitulate on?

00:36:59.060 you know yeah i wanted to ask you because you famously recently spoke to cory booker

00:37:05.460 and you asked him a very simple question which was what is benjamin netanyahu a war criminal

00:37:12.120 do you think he's a war criminal benjamin netanyahu do you think he's a war criminal

00:37:16.140 i i again we got word salad rhetoric filibustering these are these are questions that a lot of people

00:37:24.120 think are the important litmus tests that are loaded and hot. My urgency is to be an effective

00:37:30.740 leader in bringing an end to this crisis. And I get these questions all the time that to me

00:37:37.020 undermine my urgency. And the answer to that question is objectively yes. It is yes,

00:37:44.560 Benjamin Netanyahu is a war criminal. And I think it is so dismissive of Jewish people. 0.97

00:37:52.440 And I think Benjamin Netanyahu makes Jews less safe worldwide.

00:37:58.880 And I think he is one of the biggest promoters of anti-Semitism because of his actions.

00:38:05.520 And I think it's really rich for Democratic politicians to say we oppose anti-Semitism. 0.58

00:38:11.800 And then they support a person who is committing genocide in the name of Jewish safety.

00:38:17.640 and I'm so proud of voices like yours because you actually are Jewish and there are others who have

00:38:25.840 spoken out and said not in our name and that's what it takes the same thing with I think what's

00:38:31.940 happened to the Christian religion it's going to take people like James Tallarico who's running

00:38:37.160 for senate in Texas he was a big Christian guy I mean way too religious for my taste but he said

00:38:42.860 He's not going to take AIPAC money, and he needs to remind these Christians, wait, we're supposed to be radically empathetic.

00:38:50.240 So Jewish people like you can remind Jewish people, because you have the credibility, you have the skin in the game to say, no, this was done to us. 0.72

00:39:02.240 We are not going to do this. 1.00

00:39:04.040 We should oppose this more than any other group on the planet.

00:39:07.960 We should be the people who fight the most against this, not do this. 0.81

00:39:12.860 And so that's why I think brave Jewish people, and they're starting to become a chorus, but you were one of the first that stepped out.

00:39:21.740 And I'm sure that you had to do a lot of mental gymnastics to go through that, but you did. 0.98

00:39:27.620 And that gives other people the courage to really look at, because there's, you know, the shit that you're told and that you're indoctrinated in, and then there's the truth. 0.94

00:39:36.740 And I think that you and other thought leaders have helped people realize this is not keeping us safe. 0.89

00:39:42.140 this is not good for anybody this is genocide you know and so the cory booker answer and cory

00:39:49.700 booker in general and i mean this sincerely matt it really broke my heart because i i think in many

00:39:57.180 ways he can be a great senator but then you see like you said they just get so corrupted with

00:40:01.760 the money and it's just he was dismissive oh i haven't received that much apec money well if it's

00:40:07.780 such a small amount, then get rid of it. But I agree with you that we need to make it

00:40:14.320 a toxic admission. Anybody who is running in the Democratic Party who says they are taking

00:40:20.280 AIPAC money, it needs to be disqualifying because you are 100% correct. If they will bend on that,

00:40:26.940 then that just opens the floodgates and they will bend on everything because none of us are free

00:40:32.040 until all of us are free.

00:40:33.960 And you cannot cherry pick.

00:40:36.140 I'm going to defend all of these human rights 0.99

00:40:38.480 except for this one group. 1.00

00:40:40.200 You can't do that.

00:40:41.240 You have no credibility.

00:40:42.340 And it's not a purity test.

00:40:44.300 We're requesting credible messengers.

00:40:47.800 Like you are a very credible messenger

00:40:51.000 for Jewish people right now.

00:40:52.840 You are.

00:40:53.260 You have the credibility.

00:40:54.280 I'm an atheist.

00:40:55.780 You know, she's an atheist, blah, blah.

00:40:57.860 But you are a very credible messenger

00:40:59.720 for Jewish people. 0.97

00:41:00.800 And I think that's important as we get through all of this fuckery of all this corporate money and this fascism. 0.99

00:41:09.120 It's just driving me crazy, Matt. 0.95

00:41:12.280 Well, thank you for calling me a credible messenger, but I'm never running for anything because I don't know.

00:41:18.020 Like, I don't know.

00:41:18.760 Like, I do drugs sometimes, you know?

00:41:22.380 You should.

00:41:23.480 I did drugs when I was young, too.

00:41:25.460 That's fun.

00:41:26.660 Frankly.

00:41:27.240 You should do them.

00:41:27.840 But I mean, I don't want to run for anything either, but I think in order to have a platform

00:41:32.720 online, we need to be credible messengers, you know?

00:41:36.160 And so if we're not, then those voids are filled by bad actors like the Marjorie Taylor

00:41:43.220 Greens. 1.00

00:41:44.220 And then Candace Owens, she's so fucking weird. 0.99

00:41:46.620 So after the whole Charlie Kirk thing, right, she had all these updates and these theories. 0.99

00:41:51.600 And I have to admit to you and the listener, I was like, well, what the fuck is crazy Candace 0.99

00:41:54.600 talking about? 0.94

00:41:55.240 Can I just say, like, initially people were saying like, oh, Candace Owens was, while we're on this topic, people were saying Candace Owens was like the only one who seems to be like meaningfully mourning what seemed to be her best friend, Charlie Kirk. And I agreed with that. It seemed like she was really torn up about it. And then she starts posting every single day on YouTube to the tune of millions of views, like Charlie Kirk secret, Charlie Kirk conspiracy, Charlie Kirk Mossad. 0.91

00:42:22.640 and i was like okay you are really monetizing the death of who is supposedly your best friend

00:42:29.420 but then i thought a little bit like one step further and i was like you know what

00:42:33.180 you know who else was a grifter charlie kirk and that's what he would have wanted a hundred percent

00:42:37.480 a hundred percent but here's what so i watching her at one point and then like four minutes into

00:42:43.880 it matt she shifts gears like a pro and then she goes on like a 15 minute tirade about bridget 0.65

00:42:50.740 macron she thinks that bridget macron the wife of emmanuel macron yes is trans and she goes

00:42:58.080 bananas and then i looked down at the view count yeah and i realized like oh my god we are so 0.98

00:43:06.980 fucked we are so beyond fucked that millions of people are watching this insanity so it's i mean 0.98

00:43:13.920 the whole right-wing world is nuts online it is nuts we just have to do it better and do it 1.00

00:43:20.440 ethically, which is sometimes seems at odds with each other, but we try nonetheless. Jennifer,

00:43:27.420 I want to probe you on another debacle, if you will, that the Democrats are experiencing,

00:43:34.560 which I call Ezra Klein. I want to talk about Ezra Klein for a second. Someone recently commented

00:43:40.380 on one of my episodes that they hope that I drag Ezra Klein in every episode. So we are continuing

00:43:45.840 that streak just for a little bit longer. Ezra Klein, who is one of the most influential voices

00:43:51.420 left of center at the moment, has been doubling and tripling and quadrupling down on his belief

00:43:57.860 that Democrats should run pro-life candidates in red states if they want to win elections there.

00:44:04.580 To be clear, he's saying Democratic candidates who are anti-abortion.

00:44:09.560 I'd like to see us running pro-life Democrats again. When Obamacare passed,

00:44:12.300 40 house democrats are pro-life people got very upset about that i get why but i think it's worth

00:44:18.220 thinking about this he said this on his own show he said this on the new york times he said this

00:44:24.340 in the new yorker he said it to the bulwark and i texted you about this and you said that it

00:44:29.600 infuriated you only a man who has never had a pap smear or received a mammogram could say that

00:44:36.060 First and foremost. Okay, I want to start with that. Secondly, we've done this in red states. I've been in a red state and we've run Democrats that are pretty much pro-life for governor, for House seats. They lose because at the end of the day, the people in red states are very indoctrinated into religion and being a Republican.

00:45:00.920 They're not going to go vote for a Democrat who they know is lying by saying they're pro-life because they look for authenticity. 1.00

00:45:11.820 And in Oklahoma, we've had many candidates that have tried to do this shit, and they lose. 0.99

00:45:18.120 What we haven't tried in red states is running an economic populist. 0.99

00:45:23.920 We haven't tried that.

00:45:25.400 And so his idea has already been battle tested. But also, I would be remiss if I didn't share with you guys after Roe was overturned, Oklahoma did a total abortion ban.

00:45:40.240 And the stories of friends or friends of friends, acquaintances of women who are 20 weeks pregnant, they go in for a routine ultrasound, the spine is out of the baby's body, blah, blah, the baby's not going to survive.

00:45:56.500 The fetus is not going to survive.

00:45:58.320 The doctor says in normal terms, we would immediately take you to do a DNC.

00:46:02.660 I'm unable to do that right now.

00:46:04.860 And I can't even advise you on this.

00:46:07.540 So basically, their option is to deliver the baby and then watch it suffocate and die because the organs are outside of the body or you have to go out of state.

00:46:16.500 And then if you go ahead and deliver the baby, the fetus, it could prevent you from reproducing again.

00:46:23.700 It could cause such damage to your reproductive system.

00:46:27.360 And these are very real issues. 0.99

00:46:28.980 But here's the fucking problem with that Ezra Klein. 0.99

00:46:32.120 Abortion bans disproportionately affect the poor. 0.99

00:46:37.040 If I had a daughter in Oklahoma, and for whatever reason, my daughter was pregnant and didn't want to carry the baby to term, I would fly her to California, to Colorado, because I have the money.

00:46:49.060 I can do it.

00:46:50.240 So it doesn't affect me, but it does affect disproportionately poor people.

00:46:56.000 And so it's just such a bad idea from start to finish.

00:46:59.240 It's so divorced from reality. 0.98

00:47:02.540 It reeks of somebody who has never lived in a red state. 0.89

00:47:06.420 And here's something else that your listener needs to know, Matt.

00:47:09.980 All these women that say that they are pro-life, and I've been around these women my entire life, have had abortions. 0.94

00:47:17.960 And when their little darlings have gotten knocked up, they've driven their daughters to the abortion clinics and their daughters have gotten abortions because they would rather that than the gossiping of the people at the church and in their Bible studies that somebody was fucking around before they were married. 0.97

00:47:34.600 So it's just not the solution. And also it is capitulating constantly to this patriarchal structure that we're going to go their way. We're going to keep going their way. 0.98

00:47:49.480 And this is getting the electorate, who I believe is center-center-left, to continually capitulate to minority rule.

00:47:59.100 So I just think that is just so disrespectful to women, disrespectful to poor women, and divorced from the medical needs. 0.99

00:48:09.280 And I just think men that aren't doctors and haven't had pap smears shouldn't be talking about this shit. 0.99

00:48:13.980 That's what I think. 0.99

00:48:14.720 Well, I mean, the thing that kills me about someone like Ezra Klein, people who always do this like, well, we just need to do more middling and I'm pragmatic. I'm more pragmatic. The progressives, they don't understand how politics work. You have to be pragmatic to get the things that you want. But even if you're taking that stance, right, in the case of Ezra Klein, abortion is a uniquely winning issue for Democrats, including in red states.

00:48:39.500 even as all of these places, right, they moved far right on all sorts of other things and they

00:48:43.840 elected Trump, they still voted to protect abortion. This is from Jessica Valenti on

00:48:49.280 Substack. Kansas voters crushed an anti-abortion ballot measure with 60 percent of the vote 0.96

00:48:55.280 in 2022. Ohio passed an abortion rights amendment in 2023. Missouri voters approved a pro-choice

00:49:02.320 amendment in 2024. So it's like, I don't even know what Ezra Klein is trying to put forth here.

00:49:09.020 But I do think it speaks to this flailing nature of this consultant elite class Democrat that will throw any group under the bus, Palestinians, trans people, immigrants, women in red states, before they, frankly, will tax the rich and, like what you're saying, do economic populism.

00:49:29.160 Here's what's really interesting about people in red states. When you pull them individually on certain issues, like in Oklahoma, around eight years or so, we had a ballot to make marijuana legal. And this is conservative, Jesus Christ, Bible thump, MAGA dump truck state. Not one county has gone blue in the last multiple political cycles. It doesn't get any more MAGA than Oklahoma.

00:49:58.100 The voters voted to legalize pot.

00:50:00.300 What's interesting about red states is when you take individual issues, do you think there

00:50:05.020 should be gun restrictions?

00:50:06.160 The majority in Oklahoma say yes.

00:50:08.120 Do you think that abortion to a certain point should be legal?

00:50:11.380 The majority say yes. 0.77

00:50:12.480 Pot legal.

00:50:13.480 On and on.

00:50:13.920 On an individual basis, red state electorates vote for the more progressive stance.

00:50:20.820 Then, but they're so indoctrinated to be Republicans.

00:50:24.940 It's a part of the culture.

00:50:26.440 It's injected into the churches.

00:50:28.220 It's injected into the system, Jesus and Republican.

00:50:31.840 And you have to live in a red state to understand this indoctrination in people.

00:50:37.000 They will never vote for a Democrat, even though on the individual issues, they're more progressive than the Republican because they've been indoctrinated not to do so because the Republicans have been dangerously ambitious since Reagan to do this.

00:50:54.040 They went in through churches and started indoctrinating people into Republican dogma.

00:50:59.540 And it's been wildly effective, Matt, wildly.

00:51:02.720 But don't you think, I mean, I really am like pushing for this economic populism thing.

00:51:07.700 Like I'm looking what Zoran is accomplishing here in New York City.

00:51:10.360 And people are saying, oh, well, it's New York City.

00:51:12.580 But he's speaking to people.

00:51:14.740 I mean, just the other day, I was at a Zoran rally where there was a guy who got quite a lot of press coverage.

00:51:20.260 But he was in a MAGA for Mom Donnie.

00:51:22.220 I saw that.

00:51:23.320 hat and so interesting i was on the subway home after that and he was in my subway car and i was

00:51:27.960 like huh but it's because right there's left-wing populism and right-wing populism and on the right

00:51:35.980 it's someone like trump who's addresses all of the desires of people to live dignified lives

00:51:43.400 and and have a cheaper cost of living but then displaces the blame onto immigrants or like trans 0.93

00:51:50.440 field hockey middle schoolers or like whatever the fuck else right right and then on the left

00:51:55.060 you also correctly identify like people want to be able to live and not have to have a millions

00:52:01.020 of dollars to do so and the way that we're going to make that happen is by taxing billionaires

00:52:04.960 right and and so don't you think that that could i don't know you tell me you're you're from these

00:52:10.720 places do you think that could speak to people i do i think that we should look at james tallarico

00:52:17.320 and what he's doing right now, what he's talking about in Texas.

00:52:20.280 And I encourage your listeners to go to his Instagram, and there's some clips.

00:52:25.320 The biggest divide in our country is not left versus right.

00:52:29.800 It's top versus bottom.

00:52:33.140 Billionaires want us looking left and right at each other

00:52:37.520 so that we're not looking up at them.

00:52:40.040 He is reminding Christians, number one, that Jesus was radically empathetic

00:52:45.280 because there's a whole effort on the right wing now to say empathy is toxic and you can dive into 0.97

00:52:50.080 that it's fucking crazy and then he's talking about economic populism he's talking about the 0.96

00:52:56.540 one percent that we need to be concerned with are not the trans people not that less than one percent 0.98

00:53:03.120 it's the billionaires and he's really gifted at this but here's what you're correct matt because

00:53:07.980 there's something that Bernie, Zoran, and AOC can all do. They can all get triple Trumpers

00:53:14.720 to cross over and vote for them. So the canary is already in the coal mine, you know? So in

00:53:21.020 Oklahoma, in South Carolina, in Alabama, get you a good old Christian that is an economic populist 0.93

00:53:29.460 and run that and say, abortion's not my business. That speaks well with country folk. We just mind 0.85

00:53:36.800 our own business. And I think instead of running Republican lights that are never, ever, ever going

00:53:44.600 to win, run a good old Christian that is an economic populist in the South. That would be 0.50

00:53:51.720 my advice to Ezra Klein. And that would be my advice to the Democratic Party, because I think

00:53:57.620 they could win. And you can look at Andy Brashear in Kentucky. He's won twice as governor, and he

00:54:03.860 didn't throw trans kids under the bus and his justification for not doing it is that his faith

00:54:10.120 tells him not to judge people and his faith instructs him not to bully people. And he stood

00:54:15.860 up for women's rights. So we already have candidates that are doing this, but I just think

00:54:21.300 they're going about it the whole way. And I think Ezra Klein's stance is a capitulation

00:54:26.540 in the wrong direction. It's a regressive capitulation at that.

00:54:31.720 And I always say, like, and I think you're echoing this to people who want Republican, like you can just vote Republican. You don't have to get the diet Republican. Right. Exactly. I have one more kind of question that I want to ask you, get your hot take on. I have older members of my family who are like liberals, Democrats. They watch CNN, the whole thing. But they, for example, are scared to embrace someone like Zoran because they see like Democratic Socialists next to his name.

00:55:00.920 And they've bought into the fear mongering about that, largely from places like CNN or the New York Times, outlets that are owned by and ultimately cater to power, maybe liberal power, maybe power that believes in a certain level of rights for minorities, maybe anti Trump power, but power no less billionaires, no less power that is threatened by someone like Zoran, who on top of wanting to protect those minority groups, also wants to tax billionaires.

00:55:26.360 so the rest of us can live truly dignified lives.

00:55:29.160 These members of my family, to be clear,

00:55:31.480 they are by no means billionaires.

00:55:34.060 It would be in their best interest

00:55:36.380 to support someone like Zoran.

00:55:38.880 But they're so like center liberal pilled, I guess.

00:55:43.580 What would you, as someone who I think

00:55:45.320 is really, really good at speaking

00:55:47.160 to this type of person,

00:55:49.420 what would you say?

00:55:50.520 I would say that unregulated capitalism

00:55:55.240 brought us Trump. Come on, Jennifer. I'm just as shallow and pretentious as the rest of them.

00:56:02.700 Capitalism has not been sustainable. It is not a sustainable model. FDR did all of these social

00:56:11.000 services because capitalism had failed. And so he created social safety nets. So if you want to

00:56:17.440 retain some semblance of our country. You have to give and take because the trajectory that we are

00:56:25.640 on is straight to oligarchy. And when you get to oligarchy, then the dictator starts killing and

00:56:31.680 taking over other businesses, et cetera. And it's nothing like what we have now. And you also have

00:56:37.980 to have empathy for working class people that work just as hard as everybody else, sometimes harder,

00:56:42.620 like day laborers that putting roofs on houses and construction work, and they're not getting

00:56:48.540 paid. Their wages are not going up. And it tells us a lot about who we are as a country

00:56:53.180 by how we pay people. And if we don't ever raise our minimum wage, but we keep lowering taxes for

00:57:01.520 the rich, come on, man. So I think you have to approach it. I don't think you can just say

00:57:07.920 Capitalism is horrible because people are going to be like, whoa, because there's the knee jerk. 0.53

00:57:14.180 Yes. And so you have to say it's not sustainable. I almost think that it's a mistake for people to

00:57:20.780 call it democratic socialism. I think from a branding perspective, it would move a lot quicker

00:57:26.820 if they called it regulated capitalism, which are both kind of the same thing. But most of these

00:57:33.380 people don't even know what socialism is. They don't realize they're Medicare, they're Medicaid,

00:57:36.500 the post office highways, TSA. They don't realize that's socialism. But I think that you can't just

00:57:43.320 go in with these people and break their hearts immediately. You have to gingerly say,

00:57:48.440 this isn't sustainable, man. All these billionaires getting all these tax breaks

00:57:52.640 and then all these corporations fucking us over all the time. That's bullshit. I mean, 1.00

00:57:58.640 I like capitalism as much as the next person, but God, it sure doesn't seem like it's going

00:58:02.460 to be sustainable, I think that's a better way to approach it. Sometimes people on the left,

00:58:08.200 I'm guilty of this, my God, am I guilty of this, can just go in and just like heartbreak. And it's

00:58:13.620 better, I think, to gingerly bring people, especially if they're already liberal and

00:58:18.100 they're already anti-Trump, it's not that many more steps to get there. And I just like the idea

00:58:25.680 of Zoran that I've really embraced that he's really fighting for the voiceless, for the people

00:58:32.380 that are the machinery and the engine that keep this city going. And I ride the subway every day

00:58:37.820 and I look at all the faces and I think there's going to be somebody who wants them to get a

00:58:43.200 better wage. There's somebody who's fighting for them and it makes me feel good. And in the United

00:58:49.400 States, we have been indoctrinated that capitalism is amazing and individualism is the best. Well,

00:58:54.820 it turns out unregulated capitalism is not sustainable and collectivism is better. And I

00:59:01.060 I just I don't know how to message, but the democratic socialism branding thing, it's going up in your generation and popularity, which is really, really good.

00:59:11.260 But I think some people in maybe red state should message it. 0.98

00:59:15.680 And I'm not a political strategist, but if I was, I would say message it as regulated capitalism so that these corporations can't give us poisonous chemicals and fuck us over. 0.91

00:59:25.840 And so I think progress is incremental. 0.91

00:59:27.880 But the one thing I hope the Democrats have learned from this Trump thing is it doesn't have to be incremental. If we ever get power again, put your foot on the gas pedal and tear shit up for good. For good. Like put Humpty Dumpty back together again and keep all the broken down parts and really help people. That's what I would say. 0.98

00:59:48.300 jennifer welch a wine mom radicalized i hope it's okay that i've like put that label on you 0.99

00:59:56.000 i hope that you i hope that's okay honey when you get to be my age your give a fuck meter's 0.99

01:00:00.640 broken and you just don't give a shit hardly about anything so my feelings don't get hurt 0.94

01:00:05.220 labels don't hurt me so you know what and i'm i'm happy to partner with people from different 0.97

01:00:11.120 generations and i'm happy to be a voice that surprises people that is making other people

01:00:16.980 think and so many of our listeners are your age and they've sent our podcast to their parents

01:00:22.140 and now it's something they share together which is so cool that's what i'm pushing for right is

01:00:27.000 like in time for the next election we have created these new litmus tests that will actually allow 0.68

01:00:33.260 for a party that gets shit done that stands for something that stands for people that stands for

01:00:37.320 the working class that stands for minorities and that can win not in spite of those things but 0.96

01:00:41.720 because of them yeah and i agree with you right now is the time to criticize right now is the time

01:00:46.120 to move the party. Right now is the time to primary people. Right fucking now. If they move

01:00:52.120 the Republican Party all the way to dementia, where everybody's just walking around normalizing

01:00:57.400 it, we can move our party all the way to the AOC, Bernie, Zoran, because it takes care of more

01:01:04.920 people. It's more just. It's more civilized. It's kinder. It's a better place for all of us to live.

01:01:11.300 Jennifer Welch, where can people find more of you? And I hope that they do.

01:01:16.120 Okay. So I've had a podcast is all the socials and I have a darling lesbian millennial named 1.00

01:01:22.280 Kylie that runs all that stuff. She knows how to do all of that. If you want to follow me 1.00

01:01:26.300 personally, it's at M I Z Z at Ms. Welch. And I did that like long time ago, like the day

01:01:32.400 Instagram came out. I don't know why that is my name. I thought it was cute at the time and I'm

01:01:36.920 not very good at posting, but follow me there. And if you have made it through this episode,

01:01:41.620 Thank you so much.

01:01:43.440 I don't love to belabor the point of electoral politics

01:01:48.100 and the Democratic Party on this podcast.

01:01:50.020 I like talking about culture

01:01:51.340 and where it intertwines with politics more.

01:01:54.520 But I have been wanting to talk about this

01:01:56.620 with Jennifer in particular for so long.

01:01:59.020 And I also have been wanting to really just flesh out

01:02:02.540 APAC on this podcast for a long time

01:02:04.500 because I think that it would radicalize a lot of people

01:02:06.980 who aren't quite there yet.

01:02:09.800 I love you so much.

01:02:11.420 And until next time, stay fruity.

A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein - October 31, 2025

The Liberal Wine Moms are Radicalizing (with Jennifer Welch)

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