A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein - June 12, 2026


The Mel Robbins Griftpocalypse (with Princess Weekes + Kat Tenbarge)

Topics
Kevin O’Leary Is Lying How Jerry Seinfeld Bombed His Legacy (with Emma Vigeland)

Episode Stats


Length

2 hours and 19 minutes

Words per minute

175.49

Word count

24,472

Sentence count

633

Harmful content

Misogyny

100

sentences flagged

Toxicity

94

sentences flagged

Hate speech

48

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
00:00:00.000 While I was doing my makeup for this episode, I was watching another Mel Robbins YouTube video
00:00:06.460 because that's all I've done this week. And the video was called Eight Things to Tell Yourself
00:00:13.520 Every Morning. And the first one was tell yourself that today is going to be a great day.
00:00:21.100 The only thing keeping you from waking up tomorrow and feeling incredible is eight
00:00:26.660 things to tell yourself in the morning the first one is you need to tell yourself today is going to
00:00:33.820 be a great day and i was like and that's not like bad advice but that's literally the line from dear
00:00:39.520 evan hansen like dear mel robbins today's gonna be a great day and here's why exactly anyway let's
00:00:47.460 start with a joke what did marie antoinette say when she heard the people were starving
00:00:52.440 let them eat cake amen let them just let them
00:00:57.360 hello hello and welcome back to a bit fruity i'm matt bernstein i'm so happy that you're here
00:01:11.520 when i was in 10th grade around 2015 i was taking a chemistry class and i hated it i was so bad at
00:01:20.760 it. You know, memorizing the periodic table, the different formulas, moles, Avogadro's number.
00:01:29.140 I was so bad at it. I never wanted to do it. I wasn't good at it. There's a reason I do a podcast
00:01:33.820 now. But I had one friend in that class named Kayla, and we would hold each other accountable
00:01:41.800 for studying, for getting our work done. And one day when I was texting her complaining about
00:01:47.480 homework, she sent me a link to this TED talk. It was called How to Stop Screwing Yourself Over,
00:01:54.660 and it was by a woman named Mel Robbins. My name is Mel Robbins, and for the last 17 years, I have
00:02:02.840 done nothing but help people get everything that they want. It was pretty standard, like pick
00:02:08.820 yourself up by your bootstraps advice, you know, the only person standing in your way is you,
00:02:14.340 that sort of thing so why don't you have what you want when you have all the
00:02:19.620 information that you need you have the contacts that you need there are
00:02:23.640 probably free tools online that allow you to start a business or join a group
00:02:28.140 or do whatever the heck you want all day long you have ideas that could change
00:02:33.060 your life that could change the world that could change the way that you feel
00:02:37.200 and what do you do with them nothing your parents make you do the things you
00:02:42.780 don't feel like doing because you won't ever not now not then not ever and even
00:02:51.720 when you get good at something you'll figure out something else you don't want
00:02:54.360 to do and then you'll plateau out and you'll get bored and I hate this job 0.99
00:02:57.840 this is boring but will you look for no you'll just bitch about that one your 1.00
00:03:02.400 problem isn't ideas your problem is you don't act on them you kill them some my 0.99
00:03:08.760 fault it's not anybody's fault you're doing it to yourself but her delivery was so convincing
00:03:16.440 that it really did get me to do my chemistry homework it was great advice i watched this ted
00:03:22.440 talk over and over and over again to the point where kayla and i when we'd see each other in
00:03:27.560 the hallways we would quote it to each other in the mel robbins voice you're not fine you're fine
00:03:33.080 you're not fine you don't want to do it you gotta make yourself do it but you don't want to do it
00:03:36.600 anyway that class came and went and I kind of forgot about Mel Robbins while over the last
00:03:43.520 decade and a half she became the face of the unlicensed life coaching industry and one of
00:03:50.200 the most popular self-help influencers in the world Mel Robbins has over 12 million Instagram
00:03:56.760 followers 6 million Facebook followers 5 million YouTube subscribers she's written multiple best
00:04:04.120 selling books. But as someone who doesn't engage with this kind of content anymore, that all kind
00:04:09.820 of passed me by. That was until about a month ago when I saw the following headline. Mel Robbins
00:04:17.200 response to backlash after telling women to upload all their financial documents to Microsoft
00:04:23.680 co-pilot. Okay. Groundbreaking. Sounds good. Sounds good. Sounds good. So anyway, I set out
00:04:36.880 to learn everything I could about the woman who once helped me do my chemistry homework. And today
00:04:41.940 I'm going to share with you what I learned and why I fully believe that Mel Robbins would sell
00:04:49.280 you crystal meth if she could brand it as a product that would help you focus and if the
00:04:54.920 payout was good enough. It's kind of where my thesis comes down. And to do that today, I'm so
00:05:00.280 excited to be joined by longtime friend of the show, Kat Tenbarge, writer of Spitfire News. Kat,
00:05:06.880 welcome back to the show. Thanks for having me. And by the YouTube political pop culture feminist
00:05:13.680 analysis queen dare i say princess princess weeks welcome to the podcast thank you so much
00:05:20.120 long long term fan so i'm so excited to be here and this rabbit hole has been fabulous as a
00:05:27.380 procrastinator uh i felt validated and called out in equal measure the three of us have spent
00:05:33.360 the last couple days texting just like non-stop about mel robbins and full disclosure so i do
00:05:38.500 feel like our loins are girded i can't stop saying let them incredible i was i was just
00:05:47.160 telling you guys this but like my boyfriend called me this morning he was driving to work
00:05:50.940 and he was like oh there's so much traffic and i was like let them and he was like what does that
00:05:55.700 mean and i was like just let them it's so good before we kick start this whole timeline of mel
00:06:04.260 Robbins and my god there is a lot to get to uh do either of you have sort of top line thoughts about
00:06:10.480 Mel what you know about her what you don't self-help influencers or the coaching industry
00:06:15.980 I mean give me give me your thoughts self-help books are already like one of my like seven rings
00:06:20.920 of hell if I was on Dante's infernal journey because while there is some good stuff to be
00:06:28.140 like gathered from like bits and bobs one most of them should only be 100 pages like it's like
00:06:34.340 the way they were dragging in anecdotes and uncles and family i don't care 100 pages tops
00:06:39.380 it could be a really thoughtful sub stack but i also feel like in this online space where
00:06:44.920 we have like a total collapse of like actual expertise it's sort of like this ever like
00:06:52.600 fulfilling prophecy of people trying to find like the latest prettiest way to rebuttal like
00:06:59.620 confidence and trying to find some way to make it accessible and make it that you can just do
00:07:05.140 every single day and the reality is is like life is exhausting life is hard and sometimes all you
00:07:12.200 are is fine this sort of like pseudo like get up and go thing we do it every couple of years and
00:07:17.120 every couple years we're like but did it really help so i'm i'm really curious to see how she
00:07:22.200 sort of illustrates this entire journey. My initial thought about all of this, and I'm excited to get
00:07:27.060 into it, is I feel like this advice really only works if you're already rich and successful
00:07:31.660 slash have access to the tools you need to be rich and successful. Because like so much of the
00:07:37.800 top line advice just is incompatible with 80% of the human population and like the lived experiences
00:07:44.640 of average people. So let it. Let them cook.
00:07:52.200 Let them cook with their advice that's incompatible with reality.
00:07:56.400 Let them.
00:07:57.660 And let you decide what you're going to do next, which is listen to this podcast.
00:08:02.060 Let's get into Mel Robbins' early life.
00:08:06.320 So where does this all begin?
00:08:08.640 Melanie Lee Schneeberger was born in 1968, Kansas City, Missouri, but they moved to Michigan as a child.
00:08:19.440 I think she, you can tell she has a very strong Michigan accent, which I find quite charming.
00:08:24.260 Mel Robbins' father is an osteopathic surgeon.
00:08:28.560 My understanding is that like when she was a small child, he was still in school to become
00:08:34.140 an osteopathic surgeon.
00:08:35.640 And at that point, like they were in debt.
00:08:38.520 She talks about how her parents were in their late thirties when they paid off their student
00:08:45.180 loans, which now is like, I feel like if you pay off your student loans by your late thirties,
00:08:48.960 It's like normal, if not ahead of the curve.
00:08:51.220 But anyway, by the time she was an older child, like they had a good amount of money, which
00:08:56.960 is interesting because a few years ago she posted, you know, an Instagram about how you
00:09:02.500 don't have to come from much to get a lot.
00:09:04.860 And the caption was, I didn't come from much, but my parents taught me how to make much
00:09:09.740 of what we did have.
00:09:11.220 My grandparents were farmers, bakers and coal miners.
00:09:14.640 My parents met as college students in the middle of Kansas when my mom was 18.
00:09:20.140 She dropped out to marry my dad.
00:09:22.320 Bad decision. 0.99
00:09:23.260 Just in general.
00:09:24.480 And raised me and my brother.
00:09:26.320 Yeah, don't drop out of college to get married is my takeaway from that. 1.00
00:09:31.200 Let her.
00:09:32.760 I don't remember them complaining, but I do remember them celebrating when they finally
00:09:37.280 paid off all the student loans in their late 30s.
00:09:40.200 52 years later they're still together and have created a beautiful life they were definitely
00:09:45.880 complaining i guess i don't know this line i didn't come from much i guess like anyone could
00:09:52.140 say that it just depends where you start the timeline like you know like i grew up my parents
00:09:56.440 were working upper middle class but like my great grandparents fled poland for religious persecution
00:10:01.740 so like i didn't come from much if we start with them yeah and it's all relative too because what
00:10:08.540 is it to like not come from much in certain parts of the country is like a totally different
00:10:13.040 experience like my mother uh was like a sole breadwinner even though we were in a two-parent 1.00
00:10:18.900 household we lived in brooklyn and she made like what money would be like definitely upper middle 0.54
00:10:23.960 class somewhere else but in new york it's just not the same thing so like anyone can create a 0.97
00:10:29.600 narrative of which they were living that struggle life if they really know how to manipulate the
00:10:34.240 books a hundred percent mel robbins graduated from dartmouth she got her jd at boston college
00:10:41.500 then she moved to new york where she was working as a public defender uh which is where she met
00:10:47.080 her husband christopher robbins christopher robbins isn't that like a carrot like a winnie
00:10:52.500 the pooh our age gap is showing we're like we're like
00:10:57.660 no i just forgot his name okay he's the boy from winnie the pooh well anyway that's who she married
00:11:04.540 They got married in the mid-90s.
00:11:07.440 Their wedding was profiled in the New York Times.
00:11:10.780 I want to shout out the Not the Good Girl YouTube channel
00:11:14.020 and the video that she made about Mel Robbins
00:11:15.920 because that is how I found out about this New York Times wedding profile.
00:11:19.120 And then I went and read the New York Times wedding profile,
00:11:22.580 which first of all describes Mel and Christopher
00:11:25.040 as having met at a, quote, black tie event at the Puck building.
00:11:29.340 Naturally.
00:11:30.100 Also, quote,
00:11:31.200 The couple were married at the bride's family home, a large gray clapboard house on Bear Lake
00:11:37.920 in North Muskegon, Michigan, near Grand Rapids. The wedding was performed on the tennis court
00:11:43.660 by the Reverend Glenn Wagner, a United Methodist minister. So they have a tennis court.
00:11:49.240 So they have a tennis court.
00:11:51.620 That was like one of the whitest sentences I've ever, I was like, large gray clapboard house. 0.81
00:11:58.140 i just like yep i'm happy that her childhood home had a tennis court for her to then get married on
00:12:05.260 but why can't all of these people just be honest about it i you know i make these episodes every
00:12:10.520 week last week was about kevin o'leary who i feel in many ways is like cut from the same spiritual
00:12:16.600 cloth as mel robbins and he also is like my mother was just chipping away his mother gave him ten
00:12:24.180 thousand dollars to start his business mel robbins didn't come from much but got married
00:12:29.600 on a tennis court i don't want to get caught up in every detail because i have 20 pages of notes
00:12:33.420 here but why can't we just be honest i feel like this is such a common mythology for people who
00:12:41.480 are extremely successful like trigger warning taylor swift but like she does the same thing
00:12:47.540 where it's like in a lot of her lyricism which like sure it's not one-to-one autobiographical
00:12:52.580 or supposed to be but it's just this constant like self-reinforcing mythology of like I struggled
00:12:58.600 in life to get here like I deserve this because I put in the work and I think that is so crucial
00:13:04.800 to what a lot of these people are doing because it basically is just like the justification for
00:13:10.420 having an enormous platform of wealth today it's like I did do something to deserve this
00:13:17.120 otherwise I guess they fear that it starts to fall apart and it's that constant appeal to like
00:13:21.500 american individual exceptionalism of like you can do it here like just like you know the carnegie's
00:13:28.760 like you can come here from nothing and do whatever and so it just perpetuates this idea
00:13:33.240 that if you are failing it's because of you because if i could beat the system why can't
00:13:37.920 you beat the system yeah yeah by the way i just want to say it is very interesting to me that
00:13:43.140 she was initially a public defender because when you are a public defender especially in a place
00:13:48.480 like new york city you are working on legal cases for people who like can't afford counsel
00:13:53.380 we're gonna take that a little further in a second but she really does at points in her early career
00:13:59.880 have an up close and personal look into systemic injustices that exist in the world which makes 0.98
00:14:06.600 the advice that she gives today all the more interesting and all the more like bullshit 0.92
00:14:10.580 because i'm like really i'm like you've seen enough of the world despite all of your privilege 1.00
00:14:14.880 which I think you've seen enough to know that you're full of shit. 1.00
00:14:17.220 Right. 1.00
00:14:17.740 That's my two cents.
00:14:18.740 But anyway, they move to Boston.
00:14:20.760 She transitions out of law and towards self-help and life coaching,
00:14:25.040 which it seems to just have been something she's really always wanted to do.
00:14:29.080 She, in the mid-2000s, hosted a radio show from their home in Boston,
00:14:34.180 which the home had a studio for her to do a radio show in.
00:14:37.100 It was called Make It Happen with Mel Robbins,
00:14:39.960 where guests would call in for advice.
00:14:42.760 In 2007, Mel Robbins was profiled in Boston Magazine in an article titled Mel Robbins
00:14:50.640 is not the bashful type.
00:14:53.560 The Sherbourne mom turned advice guru has a hot husband, a beautiful house, a deep pocketed
00:14:59.920 clientele, and a very healthy opinion of her bad, bad self. 1.00
00:15:03.960 Who could blame her for wanting to teach every woman in America how to have a life as perfect 1.00
00:15:10.040 as hers?
00:15:11.400 Christ.
00:15:12.760 this is in 2007 this is so far before she's famous anyway this is also like this is a woman who knows
00:15:22.800 her audience at the end of the day and like the brand that she's curated is one where she can
00:15:27.920 reach every person but she knows how to reach the people who actually have money and that article
00:15:33.580 subheading tells the whole story because what she's saying in her personal brand is to reach
00:15:37.820 as many people as possible but her paying clientele are the ones with the deepest pockets so it's like
00:15:44.360 a message that sounds universal but she knows who she's really targeting and she's been very good
00:15:49.100 at that and i want to be careful not to like say like specifically towards mill robbins but i feel
00:15:53.780 like when it comes to these life coaching industries that are made by people who have like
00:15:58.680 no real background in like sociology or psychology etc there's a general statement the line between
00:16:04.760 this in cult is so narrow to me because like Nixxiom started off as like a life self-help
00:16:11.300 coaching classes that were targeting people with a lot of disposable income and look where that goes
00:16:18.240 it's this mentality like you're trusting this person with like all of these intimate things
00:16:23.040 because they look the part or they sound the part and nothing actually going deeper than that
00:16:28.280 This article published in Boston Magazine talks about how Mel plans for the coming years to include self-help tomes,
00:16:36.800 audio books, and a syndicated offline talk show, which she, quote,
00:16:41.100 says she'll insist to be filmed in Boston.
00:16:44.700 Quote, if Oprah can do it in Chicago, I can do it here.
00:16:48.480 So she's already, you know, teeing herself up to, like, aspire to be an Oprah-like figure in 2007.
00:16:53.960 Another quote from her,
00:16:54.920 i believe i am a brilliant and gifted guide that i have been given a tremendous intuition good for
00:17:01.260 her what's her star sign i gotta look that up libra wait i'm a libra that's okay
00:17:09.400 no i do i love a libra some of my best friends are libras but yeah october 6th this article goes 0.94
00:17:18.180 on to talk about how before she cut back on private appointments by about 70 percent to 0.99
00:17:23.100 focus on her media pursuits robin's 250 an hour counselees in parentheses she now charges 350
00:17:30.880 also i'm adding this was in 2007 included fellow moms recent college grads and executives from
00:17:37.780 companies like dunkin donuts fidelity and johnson and johnson this was just basically a puff piece
00:17:42.920 that she clearly found someone at boston magazine to write about her and it's sort of i mean it's
00:17:48.080 just like a grift all the way because she's like doing this resume about how she's so good but
00:17:51.600 it's ultimately to get clients who then she can use as, you know, further testimony about how 0.93
00:17:55.720 she's so good at life coaching. She just wanted this really bad. And something Mel Robbins will
00:18:00.980 do later in her career is she'll be like, this all just kind of fell into my lap. And my friends
00:18:07.100 noticed how good of an intuition I had and how inspiring I was. And it's like, no, you have been
00:18:12.760 grinding at trying to be a famous self-help influencer since before there were even influencers
00:18:18.280 since when it was about talk radio.
00:18:20.760 Again, I wish these people could just be honest about that.
00:18:22.920 This was in 2007, and by 2008, of course, the recession hit,
00:18:28.900 which put her and her husband, Christopher,
00:18:30.920 who was flailing in the restaurant business at this point,
00:18:34.240 into, as she says, financial and marital disarray.
00:18:38.380 And famously, she says over and over that they fell into $800,000 of debt.
00:18:43.740 Now, I can't say that this is or isn't real,
00:18:46.700 but just i start to take everything these people say with a grain of salt you know
00:18:50.220 because that is just an insurmountable amount of debt for like people who had good jobs what
00:18:56.420 happened like did you really put all your eggs in the in restauranting and self-help y'all are
00:19:01.280 adults this is what season three of euphoria should have been about instead of nate jacobs
00:19:08.180 getting his limbs cut off because he was like deeply in debt it should have been about how
00:19:12.160 cassie becomes a self-help author to dig them out of debt anyway amidst the recession mel and her
00:19:19.080 husband are really struggling and it was out of the ashes of their struggle that the phoenix rose
00:19:25.000 up the phoenix of course being the five second rule are you guys familiar with the five second
00:19:31.560 rule i am now i feel like by just me saying the title you know what it is but it's essentially
00:19:38.260 like the second that you have a thought that you need to get something done you count down from
00:19:43.340 five five four three two one you give yourself the five seconds to like basically launch yourself
00:19:49.820 into doing the thing she compares it to a rocket ship and she says she she was she was watching a
00:19:54.680 documentary about a like rocket ship and she like watched them count down from five and she was like
00:19:59.820 wow i could do the same thing to get myself out of bed in the morning i woke up on a snowy day with
00:20:05.440 eight hundred thousand dollars in debt the alarm rang i immediately thought i got to get out of bed
00:20:11.120 i was inspired to count backwards five four three two one because i had seen a rocket ship launch
00:20:15.280 the night before while i was drinking bourbon in front of the tv and that first morning five four
00:20:20.400 three two one that i got out of bed when that alarm rang it felt like a victory for the next
00:20:26.880 three years all i did was count five four three two and one action at a time my life changed so
00:20:37.120 this is what she says got her out of eight hundred thousand dollars of debt sort of fixed her marital
00:20:44.000 issues amidst the 2008 recession i read a lot of let them i've clipped passages from let them for
00:20:51.600 us to read throughout the episode and so in the following passage she's talking about how the
00:20:55.760 the five-second rule changed her life. Using 54321, I pushed through the excuses, the anxiety,
00:21:01.960 the overwhelm, and the fear. And step by step, day by day, week by week, I slowly took the actions
00:21:08.360 that put my life and career back on track. My husband started using it to push himself to face
00:21:14.520 the issues in his business head on, and it worked for him too. But it would be another three years
00:21:20.600 before I told anyone else about the five-second rule.
00:21:23.540 How selfish.
00:21:25.140 I had been reluctant to share it with anyone
00:21:28.000 because first, I didn't know why it worked.
00:21:31.260 And second, I didn't feel like I was in a position
00:21:34.200 to give anybody advice.
00:21:37.000 I pasted this here because first of all,
00:21:38.880 just that last part of I didn't feel like I was in a position
00:21:41.640 to give anybody advice.
00:21:43.540 At the point in which she claims to have developed
00:21:46.360 the five-second rule,
00:21:47.440 she already had a radio show out of her home in Boston about giving people advice.
00:21:54.040 So again, she kind of just like wiggles around in this narrative of like,
00:21:57.840 I was just a humble small town girl and I didn't realize I had invented sliced bread.
00:22:02.560 It's like, you've, you've just, you've always wanted to do this.
00:22:05.780 Just be honest.
00:22:06.540 You've always wanted to do this.
00:22:08.380 Also, like the five second rule did not make her $800,000. 0.91
00:22:13.060 branding the five second rule and then selling the five second rule to other people is what made 0.61
00:22:19.800 her 800,000 and then millions and millions of dollars. Cause like on its own, I don't think
00:22:25.340 that this is a bad thing. Like I do, there's an obvious psychological value in like sort of just
00:22:32.040 like motivating, like being like, I'm going to do this thing in five seconds. Like it's a good tool
00:22:36.720 in that sense, but it's not a get rich quick scheme or a fix your marriage scheme or a make
00:22:42.660 your life so much better transformational scheme. It was only that for her because she figured out
00:22:48.880 how to sell it. And I just want to say, from what you have shared with us and just doing a little
00:22:53.420 bit of other research, it's clear that she's already a very self-disciplined person. If you're
00:23:00.400 going to Dartmouth, very competitive school to get into, and you get your JD at Boston College,
00:23:05.720 and you work as a public defender, and you're in the Legal Aid Society, you're already a self-driven,
00:23:10.620 disciplined person going through a rough patch and then you get to use all of those skills and
00:23:16.400 those privileges to help you get out of it and i think that's a part of it too is like as someone
00:23:21.500 who takes prozac every day it's like i can one two three myself one two three four five myself
00:23:26.580 several times no no no no no no no no you have to count down sorry i've been doing it wrong the 0.98
00:23:33.820 whole time that's what that's a problem i've been listening to so many goddamn interviews with this 0.94
00:23:37.660 woman but you can't count up because then she says you could just keep counting up forever 0.93
00:23:41.400 by counting down by counting down you get to one and then it's over which honestly
00:23:47.300 sometimes she says things and i'm like damn that makes sense you're like bars
00:23:52.040 that's the thing she's also really good at making a sound bite and that is one of the
00:23:58.600 best skills you can have as someone in this type of position is being really good at breaking 0.98
00:24:03.920 things down into chunks like that. Well, and as each of you have pointed out, all of her advice
00:24:08.660 in general, most of it, it's not all bad. It's just also limited to a very specific subset of
00:24:17.120 mostly inconsequential situations. Right. And as she goes on to write, quote,
00:24:22.360 the stories were amazing. People had used 54321 to push through fear, procrastination,
00:24:28.640 and excuses to change jobs lose a hundred pounds get sober launch and sell businesses
00:24:35.440 improve their health and marriages the medical and clinical uses blew me away
00:24:41.080 doctors and psychologists were using it to treat ptsd ocd and depression
00:24:47.500 i think this is irresponsible like especially the use of the word clinical is really interesting
00:24:54.800 because that has like a really specific definition and I don't think that she didn't reinvent the
00:25:00.060 wheel with the five second rule I don't even think she's the first person to come up with this
00:25:04.640 she just like has again like branded it very successfully around herself like she's turned
00:25:09.560 it into a personal brand I'm sure that doctors and therapists do advise people to do stuff like this
00:25:16.420 but not because of Mel Robbins it's just like a psychological fact that I think has existed
00:25:22.980 since before she was even born and that's where the clinical usage of it comes from I suspect
00:25:28.780 yeah like counting is a common thing or repeating certain terms like these are such calm and just
00:25:34.540 taking breaths like I can just imagine like breathing in between doing do it the right way
00:25:39.140 five four three two one would be soothing and relaxing uh but again I think as we said before
00:25:45.680 like this whole idea like lose weight and get sober and launch and sell businesses it then takes
00:25:51.520 all of that like if you aren't having those results that you're doing it wrong right exactly
00:25:56.840 it's your fault and listen i've read the comments on those videos and some people maybe even you
00:26:04.060 say that this has helped them a lot and if it's helped you a lot if it's made getting out of bed
00:26:09.160 easier literally more power to you but all of the advice that she gives in all of her books are just
00:26:14.200 different versions of the like you are responsible for every good thing that happens to you and
00:26:20.140 therefore you are also responsible for every bad thing that happens to you.
00:26:23.040 Groundbreaking.
00:26:23.740 It's just not a framework that's like rooted in like reality or like acknowledging the
00:26:29.120 way that the world works.
00:26:30.140 It's just you, you, you, you, you.
00:26:31.780 The first time that she talks about the five second rule publicly, or as she says, did
00:26:38.660 public speaking in general, was when her friend asked her to speak at a career conference
00:26:43.760 in San Francisco.
00:26:44.860 She went, she says that she completely blacked out on stage, but that the speech was filmed,
00:26:52.160 posted online, and yes, became one of the most watched TED Talks of all time.
00:26:57.620 So one more thing that you can use, I call it the five second rule.
00:27:00.780 If you have one of those little impulses that are pulling you, if you don't marry it with an action
00:27:07.420 within five seconds, you pull the emergency brake and kill the idea. Kill it. 1.00
00:27:12.640 It has currently around 35 million views, which is almost as much as, you guessed it, 0.83
00:27:20.200 by Sister before it was deleted.
00:27:22.100 Like I said, I loved this TED Talk in high school, and it helped me get my homework done.
00:27:28.980 But there's a big difference between, like, something that helps you get your homework
00:27:33.400 done and something that helps you, like, leap over the hurdles of structural inequality,
00:27:39.320 and Mel Robbins seems to think that her advice applies equally to all of the above.
00:27:45.580 I feel like what she does really well in this video is, first of all, like in this TED Talk,
00:27:50.420 it's super, super engaging, both for the audience who was physically there in the room with her
00:27:56.140 and for you as the viewer.
00:27:58.080 But the majority of what makes it so engaging is not even advice.
00:28:03.580 It's more so like just being a good entertainer, like having showmanship
00:28:07.860 and knowing how to connect with an audience it's the same thing that like again like a magician
00:28:12.620 could do a really good job at this like a comedian could do like a really good job at this like
00:28:19.420 the actual advice when you boil it down is super super non-descriptive and it doesn't really
00:28:25.980 meaningfully change anything but I feel like she's also really good for temporary bursts of
00:28:31.860 motivation and like if I was procrastinating on writing something and I watched this video
00:28:37.040 I already feel bad. I already know I need to do something. If this woman is just like,
00:28:41.220 you can do it. Yes, of course, there is a temporary benefit to that, but it will not 1.00
00:28:46.680 meaningfully change the direction of your life. It talks about the five-second rule in the TED
00:28:51.600 Talk. The TED Talk goes super, super viral. And in the following March, Mel publishes her first
00:28:57.960 book, Stop Saying You're Fine, The No BS Guide to Getting What You Want. Stop Saying You're Fine
00:29:04.360 is, of course, one of the viral phrases that she had in that TED Talk.
00:29:09.060 In fact, all of her books are basically the product of viral posts that she's made,
00:29:14.580 which I understand in the self-help industry is probably like how it works.
00:29:18.580 It's like you get a really viral post and then book publishers are like,
00:29:22.660 do you think you can turn this post into a 300-page book?
00:29:26.420 The problem generally, though, is that, as you said, Princess,
00:29:30.000 there's just not enough meat on the bone to fill 300 pages.
00:29:33.240 yeah and then to do the workbooks and then to do all the extended edition it's like
00:29:37.780 like nobius guide girl guide for girlies you know what i mean like it has to become an empire it
00:29:44.300 can't just be like a step in like the the pathway of like you can't afford to have a full-time
00:29:50.580 therapist who would ideally talk you through each of these steps so instead i'm gonna have to sell
00:29:55.500 you every single one of these books to do the exact same thing except that what a therapist
00:30:00.100 this does is actually work with your own limitations, which I think these systems are
00:30:05.220 trying so hard to fit into it that it doesn't take into account like, you know, these things
00:30:09.100 could benefit you if you were working one on one with somebody who could hold you accountable in
00:30:13.580 your day to day life. This can, as you said, can only give you like a temporary burst that adds
00:30:18.440 shame if it doesn't go forward. Yeah, I mean, like, even if you break down like the things
00:30:22.580 that she talks about as stuff you can use her tools to address, like even if you break it down
00:30:26.680 and just look at one of them, like losing weight.
00:30:29.320 It's like, you can, there is no one size fits all prescription for losing weight.
00:30:35.200 And this does not take into consideration any of the systemic structural factors that
00:30:40.080 make it difficult for people to stop gaining weight or to lose weight.
00:30:43.980 Like it's not actually useful once you bring in many of the real life factors that people
00:30:49.940 are going through.
00:30:51.080 Also, one thing from this TED talk that I forgot to mention during it, she puts up pictures
00:30:55.960 of her like family like there are pictures of like her kids and she's using them as like a
00:31:00.660 cutesy way to illustrate like sometimes your kids will like get into the pantry when you have people
00:31:04.980 coming over later the pantry like her house that you can see from these images she she has like a
00:31:12.180 walk-in kitchen pantry like I was like you're already rich you live in an extremely nice home
00:31:19.620 Like, I was just super gagged by that and the little, like, discreet ways of showing that you are, in fact, already quite wealthy.
00:31:27.760 Trust me, I have money.
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00:33:06.760 And now let's get back to the show.
00:33:09.100 that first book didn't become a blockbuster and mel doesn't become a full-time self-help
00:33:17.900 influencer right away what she does in the early 2010s before her career really takes off
00:33:24.420 is work as a cnn legal analyst with an increasing amount of paid motivational speaking work on the
00:33:31.880 side on weekends she became best known on cnn for covering the trial of george zimmerman who's if you
00:33:41.000 need your memory jogged the man who murdered trayvon martin an unarmed 17 year old black boy
00:33:46.920 and she was on cnn like there's compilations of this on youtube she's on cnn like it doing her
00:33:52.760 like mel robbins isms but like for legal analysis of george zimmerman's trial which he was eventually
00:33:57.800 acquitted the criminal defense attorney and hln contributor mel you were there again another
00:34:02.200 compelling day uh i my sense was watching it all that the pendulum was moving a little bit more
00:34:09.160 towards the defense case today hundred percent i mean as as you just heard everybody else talk
00:34:14.040 about john good was a fantastic witness for the defense mel robbins hln contributor criminal defense
00:34:20.200 attorney radio talk show host mel okay you've had 17 months we've seen over 50 witnesses you got a
00:34:26.440 dead 17 year old here and this is what your closing argument looks like horrible as a juror
00:34:32.080 as a spectator i don't know what the prosecution's theory of the case is other than george zimmerman
00:34:38.340 lied but we don't really know what happened now do we well i'd strike him for a totally different
00:34:43.000 reason i'd strike him because in it this was really depressing and disturbing to watch yeah
00:34:48.700 it was very uncomfortable to watch yeah there are certain realms especially because she has
00:34:52.840 the background of being in public justice, in New York City, who has had to see so much 0.96
00:35:00.940 institutionalized violence. It just felt very tacky. The way that she provided legal analysis
00:35:07.280 on this case was to say like, oh, the defense attorneys are doing a really good job here and
00:35:12.840 the prosecution is not doing a very good job here. That's the type of analysis and commentary
00:35:17.660 she's providing, there's a place and a purpose for that. But what really grinds my gears about
00:35:23.240 this style of legal commentary, which is what makes up the vast majority of on-air commentary,
00:35:28.460 as well as YouTube commentary and stuff, the system is problematic. The system reinforces
00:35:35.940 injustices. The system itself is worth talking about, not just like, oh, is the defense attorney
00:35:43.180 doing a good job, but also like if the defense attorney is doing a good job, what does that say
00:35:48.280 about the reality of how our justice system is failing? And so seeing her just kind of like sit
00:35:53.860 there and like talk about it so like blithely and how like great the defense attorneys are doing,
00:35:59.000 I'm just like, it leaves a really bad taste in my mouth and it's upsetting. This child is dead
00:36:04.640 and we're all like, you guys are all just kind of like sitting here and talking about it. Like
00:36:08.640 it's a game of golf where the person who killed him is like ultimately gonna win and that is what
00:36:14.300 basically happened because he got acquitted no i mean that's right and i just think i just think
00:36:18.500 what i want people to know about mel robbins is that she has always wanted to be a famous
00:36:23.460 television personality and that's fine but she's not forthright about it and you know i think if
00:36:30.920 she could have become more famous as like an on-air legal analyst i think she would have loved being 0.97
00:36:36.520 like a nancy grace she just wasn't making that big of a name for herself covering this stuff on cnn
00:36:42.240 and then she found another way to do it but again i just come back to like when i watch the hours
00:36:48.440 and hours and read the books and read everything of what she's doing now and it's like this empty
00:36:52.800 advice that is completely detached from like structural inequality that exists in the real
00:36:58.700 world i know that because of her past she has experienced that real world not herself but
00:37:05.260 through her clients as a public defender through covering the george zimmerman trial up close and 0.99
00:37:10.500 personal and so i just know that she's full of shit it's it's whatever does that make sense 0.99
00:37:16.000 yeah absolutely and like these on-air analyst jobs are already very lucrative for a lot of people 0.98
00:37:22.380 not everyone like gets paid to go on cnn and be a talking head but oftentimes people in these types
00:37:28.400 of roles especially do have very lucrative contracts and it's like you look at the world
00:37:34.200 of legal commentary, you saw this with like the Depard trial is a great example. You have these
00:37:38.740 like former defense attorneys, former district attorneys, former like all of these people who
00:37:43.640 have really significant real legal backgrounds making millions of dollars. And their stated
00:37:50.340 goal is to like educate the public. But what they're actually doing is just feeding into
00:37:54.800 people's pre-existing biases and ensuring that the system continues to operate in this way.
00:38:00.900 The only person who really benefits from it is the person providing the commentary because
00:38:06.000 they can make a lot of money doing it.
00:38:07.820 It's also striking to me that she goes from lucrative on-air work as well as very lucrative
00:38:12.820 individual coaching, but she sees that the place where you can make the most money and
00:38:18.720 have the biggest impact is through self-help books.
00:38:22.180 And I think that is kind of staggering.
00:38:24.440 That's right.
00:38:25.080 And Mel describes her shift completely away from law and legal analysis and towards self-help.
00:38:32.460 Thanks to the success of her TED Talk.
00:38:34.900 She writes,
00:38:35.760 Once I started getting paid, I put every dollar towards chipping away at our debt.
00:38:40.480 That first year, I gave 17 paid speeches.
00:38:44.160 Jesus.
00:38:44.800 The next year, it was 47 and I was able to quit my day job.
00:38:49.320 I couldn't believe that was happening.
00:38:51.000 by the third year i was doing 99 speeches plus a 24 city tour with jp morgan chase
00:38:58.880 i had become i had become the most booked female speaker in the world i was being hired by
00:39:08.220 companies i admired how did this happen by forcing myself out of bed on those things i didn't feel
00:39:15.240 like it right right um learning to how to push yourself to take action when you are afraid or
00:39:23.320 full of self-doubt or overwhelmed with excuses is a life skill you can learn once you master it
00:39:29.120 you'll understand that you can achieve anything through small consistent moves forward just like
00:39:35.140 pilates i don't want to be one of these people who's like you actually can't do anything and
00:39:45.100 like you shouldn't get out of bed,
00:39:46.720 like you don't, whatever.
00:39:47.980 But there has to be something in between that
00:39:50.080 and Mel Robbins saying
00:39:52.260 that she became the most booked female speaker
00:39:55.340 in the world within three years
00:39:57.620 because she was getting out of bed in the morning.
00:40:00.320 We're literally charting the path
00:40:01.660 of how she actually got there,
00:40:03.360 which is that she had connections
00:40:05.300 that 99.999% of people do not have.
00:40:08.980 She met her husband at a Black Tie Manhattan event.
00:40:12.260 She is an on-air CNN legal correspondent.
00:40:15.880 These are not just things that you get handed to you.
00:40:18.760 These are not just like opportunities that are waiting for you.
00:40:21.580 You can basically only do this stuff if you are already operating within this like echelon of society where you're constantly meeting CNN bookers and people who book motivational speakers for JPMorgan Chase.
00:40:35.980 Yeah, they need the motivation for sure.
00:40:38.720 But have you thought about getting out of bed 30 minutes earlier, Kat?
00:40:41.160 maybe i will maybe i will don't you want to go on a 24 city speaking tour with jp morgan chase
00:40:48.740 and other companies you admire only with a daily stop at the capital one cafe to fuel up
00:40:54.480 yeah it's one of the things too as someone who i do have a procrastination problem so there's a lot
00:41:02.500 of this stuff that is accessible and again the place where it stops being relatable is sort of
00:41:08.360 like, I am an adult, so I know that the connection between A and B is not really there. And it's
00:41:15.400 frustrating to see the lack of transparency in that regard. And I think it's just so tied to
00:41:21.340 explicitly like the women's self-help space is so oriented around making it seem effortless,
00:41:30.340 by making it seem effortless and classy and elegant, with these small, consistent moves 0.98
00:41:35.640 forward it's like a way of still maintaining a sense of i would say femininity while progressing
00:41:41.360 like you're never sweating you're just doing small consistent movements that is a really
00:41:47.820 interesting insight i'm just hearing so much pilates talk too even though i do pilates but
00:41:52.240 it's all of these things in which like what we're talking about kind of like the trad wife
00:41:56.720 influencer thing it is also rooted in this idea of like you know taking these big spaces for
00:42:01.320 yourself and really being self-focused and it's just like to go from having 17 paid speeches
00:42:07.760 most people don't get paid to give speeches most people don't get paid for any of that labor so
00:42:13.700 even the fact that you were notable enough that those were paid gigs is already like above most
00:42:19.260 people and she can't acknowledge any amount of privilege in any of her works like anywhere she
00:42:27.620 can't acknowledge any of it because it would just undercut the basis of her advice on her 0.94
00:42:33.460 credibility in giving people life advice, which you might be wondering about. She writes when
00:42:39.960 people would ask if I had a PhD or if I was a therapist, I would say, no, I learned everything
00:42:46.100 the hard way by screwing up my own life and then having to fix it. I didn't achieve success or
00:42:54.640 financial freedom because of some secret. I did it because I was willing to do what most people
00:43:00.060 won't. I woke up every day and regardless of how I felt, I kept slowly chipping away at my goals
00:43:06.620 for over a decade, a painstakingly slow process. Some days, all I focused on was just trying to
00:43:13.340 be a little better than I was the day before. Often, that's all you need to do. I am not special
00:43:19.120 or different or gifted or lucky i just found the tools that worked for me and i used them
00:43:25.280 today my entire career and life's purpose is sharing those tools with you fun fact most
00:43:31.500 people don't wake up every day i didn't know that i was like we learn something new every 0.73
00:43:37.660 fucking day like most people wake up every day it's like regardless of how they feel i'm like 0.83
00:43:43.040 I think literally everyone does that. 0.99
00:43:45.840 I also just want to give a shout out to actual psychotherapists, social workers, people who
00:43:52.260 do have PhDs, because I know that Mel Robbins is a sore spot for many of them.
00:43:56.700 Many of them messaged me when I posted about planning this episode.
00:44:00.480 When she writes, when people would ask if I had a PhD or if I was a therapist, I would
00:44:05.100 say, no, I learned everything the hard way.
00:44:08.640 Unfortunately, that's not actually a credential.
00:44:12.320 Nope.
00:44:12.520 it's really aggravating and this was a conversation on tiktok and it's like
00:44:16.160 you are an expert in your own experiences and even in that you are not a reliable narrator for
00:44:22.160 yourself but the point is that credentials do matter when you are trying to sell things to
00:44:28.380 other people when you are you are presenting yourself as an authority and not even having
00:44:32.380 the sense to be like i am special i am different i am lucky i would respect that more i i love a 0.89
00:44:39.760 bad bitch behavior be like yeah i'm lucky i'm special i had a really good childhood i have like 0.95
00:44:45.460 really stable parents and everything and because of all of that i had the wherewithal to figure 0.99
00:44:50.120 out this work like to me that is more relatable than just saying i woke up like this you're not
00:44:56.040 beyonce it's also very like tripling down on that it's your fault if you're not successful because
00:45:02.400 she's literally saying like most people won't do what i do and it's like most people don't have
00:45:07.760 what you have most people didn't grow up on bear lake near grand rapids michigan which i'll never
00:45:13.400 forget now for some reason like i'm like most people don't have a tennis court in their backyard
00:45:18.440 it's just very frustrating for her to like sit here and be like this is how it is when we all 0.98
00:45:23.960 know it's not mel robbins is now well into her you know skyrocketing to stardom she ends up 0.72
00:45:32.080 turning the five-second rule into a book aptly called The Five-Second Rule. It's released in
00:45:40.140 2017. It becomes a bestseller. This is really where she reaches superstardom and fully pivots
00:45:47.660 into full-time self-help influencer mode. One of my main gripes with self-help influencing in 0.99
00:45:56.280 general, you are telling everyone else how to live their life. If your advice was so good and was so
00:46:03.960 profit generating and was so fulfilling on its own, why is your career giving that advice to people,
00:46:12.480 selling that advice to people? If you were taking your own advice, wouldn't I not be hearing from
00:46:17.840 you? Wouldn't you just be like happy and somewhere else and making money doing whatever the things
00:46:23.220 you initially set out to do it to me it's just it's all such a scam let them i mean let them
00:46:29.280 scam me fair enough but like mel robbins by her own admission was giving self-help advice on how
00:46:35.340 to live life in 2007 in that radio show from her home while she says her marriage and career and
00:46:42.600 finances were all flailing she says like what position am i in to tell people how to live their
00:46:49.200 life. And by the way, I think that's how we should all feel all the time. None of us are in a position
00:46:54.520 to tell anybody else how to live their life, because none of us, none of us actually has that
00:46:59.080 authority. Anyone who says that they have that authority is lying to you, is trying to sell you
00:47:03.880 something, might be trying to sell you six different things, as is the case of Mel Robbins.
00:47:08.400 And it's just, it's just a total grift. And I think it aligns neatly with another grift that
00:47:16.180 mel robbins would make a lot of money in which is multi-level marketing oh my god of course
00:47:23.140 of course if you if you are new to the anti-multi-level marketing space multi-level
00:47:29.600 marketing companies think like avon makeup or rodan and field skincare or amway i mean there's
00:47:37.200 a million of them they claim to be companies where it's just like friends selling skincare
00:47:43.200 hair products or makeup products which are all overpriced to other friends. These companies tend
00:47:48.900 to operate in the like wellness and beauty space because they target women who are oftentimes 0.99
00:47:54.080 mothers who don't have time to get you know jobs with salaries and health care. They claim that
00:48:00.560 you can basically sign up you can sell people in your community these products and you can make
00:48:05.040 money from them. But what they don't tell you up front at least is that first of all you have to
00:48:11.000 pay for all of your stock, which is not how an ethical business works. And also that the actual
00:48:16.340 money comes from recruiting other people under you. And then you get a cut of all of not only
00:48:22.880 the product that they sell to other people, but also the product that they buy from the company
00:48:27.180 to sell to other people. So essentially the people are the product. It's a big multi-level
00:48:31.320 marketing scam. And I think self-help integrates perfectly into this world because self-help is a
00:48:37.540 multi-level marketing scam you are telling other people how to live so that they can tell other
00:48:42.140 people how to live so that they can tell other people how to live and it's it creates a big
00:48:46.100 pyramid mel robbins and like jay shetty are at the top and everyone's just lying and making it up
00:48:51.900 exactly and it is so frustrating when you see someone get into an mlm like this kind of
00:48:58.780 there's so much excitement and i know so many even young women who like were genuinely trying
00:49:05.200 to find another stream of income try to use it as like a community organizing tool and it's like
00:49:11.180 the language of self-help being used to sell this product is so dangerous because people right now
00:49:16.700 especially want other sources of income they want community they want to feel like they're a part of
00:49:21.180 something and they want to help people and it all takes advantage of those inclinations and i think
00:49:26.340 nothing better represents the incompatibility of mel robbins sort of like grind set pick yourself
00:49:32.760 up by her bootstraps advice than her collaboration with the multi-level marketing world. She gives
00:49:38.460 talks at a number of like multi-level marketing like conferences for these different companies.
00:49:44.220 It's great because the way that multi-level marketing companies keep their distributors in
00:49:49.820 despite the fact that the vast vast vast majority of them are actually losing money to the company
00:49:54.880 itself are they give them these motivational speeches and it's all about if you aren't selling
00:49:59.980 enough like 40 lipsticks or lotions it's because you don't want it badly enough mind you these
00:50:06.620 companies and the way that they're set up are structurally impossible one of the pieces of
00:50:12.200 advice that you will hear and i've listened to a lot of like mlm content is like just recruit five
00:50:17.320 people under you every month and you will end up at the top of the pyramid in no time first of all
00:50:21.520 by the time you've heard of this company the top of the pyramid has been long solidified you will
00:50:26.180 forever be at the bottom but second of all i did a little number crunching and if you recruit five
00:50:33.040 people and those people recruit five people in a year the company has about 47 million employees
00:50:40.180 jesus christ that's one big ass pyramid and then within six additional months of that you have
00:50:45.960 exceeded the population of the earth jesus so i say all of this to say that like 99 of people 0.65
00:50:53.380 don't make any money and it's like 0.1% that makes an actual living wage it's just it's also
00:50:59.820 such a parasitic concept because it's like if you're recruiting five people every month and
00:51:05.360 you're also supposed to be like a stay-at-home mom who's going to her friends and family 0.98
00:51:09.100 you're basically like the instructions here are to create a cult that you suck every single person
00:51:14.240 you've ever met into and now all of a sudden you've employed your entire social network and
00:51:20.100 And this really happens because like the common thing that people encounter with MLMs is they're like, why is this girl who I went to high school with 20 years ago messaging me relentlessly on Facebook?
00:51:31.340 It's a one-step process to just like actually alienate people, driving you further into like isolation and loneliness.
00:51:39.520 It's just such an antisocial business model that has reached so much havoc in so many people's lives.
00:51:45.220 But the thing with these multilevel marketing companies is that they need someone like Mel Robbins who can give advice so confidently that is so incompatible with the real world, but that she has such a good delivery that the people that they are essentially like sucking all of the money from will believe it and stay there.
00:52:04.940 In 2017, while promoting her book, The Five Second Rule, Mel Robbins does an interview with a man named Eric Worre.
00:52:13.580 Eric Worre is at this point someone that she is friends with from the motivational speaking circuit.
00:52:19.060 He is a sort of celebrity multi-level marketing coach.
00:52:23.820 He just posts videos on Instagram and YouTube telling people the way to succeed in multi-level marketing is just to try harder.
00:52:31.300 Like that's basically what it all boils down to.
00:52:33.140 he is enormously wealthy through books courses speaking events i i put an instagram video link
00:52:41.620 into the outline i'll put it on the screen if you're watching the video it just shows his house
00:52:45.640 first of all i think this house is kind of ugly it's it reminds me of something i would have built
00:52:49.820 in the sims when i was like 13 oh my god it's so tacky it's so big it looks like the entourage
00:52:57.660 house you know what i mean like it looks like like it looked like the boys live there and what's
00:53:01.660 really sad is like, if you look at the comments on this video, which I suspect are pretty heavily
00:53:06.740 moderated and they're probably deleting any negative comments. So the ones that are left
00:53:11.140 are like, this one is you are both the most incredible people in the world leading with
00:53:15.900 servant hearts has rewarded you so well, such a well-deserved lifestyle with many more years to
00:53:21.640 come. Today is the day. Congratulations on the new book. Can't wait to get a copy. Wow. That's
00:53:26.740 a beautiful home well done like it's just people glazing them and believing that they again have
00:53:33.800 earned this because of the mythology they've created which is i struggled to get here and
00:53:39.740 perhaps more importantly so can you and that's so important to the whole thing because this is what
00:53:45.180 taps into that whole american exceptionalism it's like this is why we can't have socialism
00:53:48.420 because then when you're a billionaire do you want to be taxed that's right and so mel goes on eric's
00:53:55.540 podcast. She also, by the way, spoke at his recruiting conference. It's kind of a small
00:54:00.320 world with these people. So let's say that you've got a bunch of people that you want to talk to.
00:54:04.300 You want to recruit. You're excited. You go into the meeting, but they look at you like this.
00:54:08.740 You're like, oh, no, I'm not going to say anything today. They look like they're in a bad mood.
00:54:12.220 I don't think I can do this today. Yes, you can. Five, four, three, two, one. This is the advice
00:54:17.680 she had for people who are struggling to make money in multi-level marketing pyramid schemes.
00:54:23.220 so the problem is that you have a habit of getting stuck up here you will never grow your network
00:54:31.060 marketing business by thinking about it it's not happening and what i can tell you based on years
00:54:36.660 and years of research because in in trying to figure out why does something five four three two
00:54:42.560 one so simple creates such profound change at not only a behavioral but a neurological and a mindset
00:54:50.780 and a habit level for people all over the world.
00:54:54.620 The reason why you're having an issue
00:54:57.780 if you feel paralyzed or stuck
00:54:59.640 is because you spend too much time thinking.
00:55:02.620 And thinking too much itself becomes a habit.
00:55:06.660 Now, here's what I want you to understand.
00:55:09.060 The only cure, the only cure for paralysis,
00:55:13.500 the only cure for fear,
00:55:15.640 the only cure for feeling insecure,
00:55:18.360 The only cure for feeling like a loser, like you're going to fail at this thing.
00:55:22.420 The only cure for the hopes and dreams is action.
00:55:28.380 That's it. 0.81
00:55:30.480 Genuinely, no shade, Mel Robbins, but like, I think you're going to hell. 0.97
00:55:34.400 I do.
00:55:35.140 I'm so sorry. 0.99
00:55:36.260 I think she's going to hell. 0.96
00:55:37.160 That's so crazy to say that. 0.99
00:55:38.720 Like, I mean, like, that is just so irresponsible.
00:55:42.000 The reason you're not making money in your, they'll call it network marketing,
00:55:47.200 because that's like the safe word that they use instead of pyramid scheme.
00:55:50.460 The reason you're not making money in your LuLaRoe leggings pyramid scheme business
00:55:55.580 is not because you're not trying hard enough.
00:55:58.980 It's not because it's all up here in your brain, but you're not doing.
00:56:02.320 It's because everyone in your neighborhood who wants to work for LuLaRoe
00:56:07.480 is already trying to sell LuLaRoe and you can't all recruit each other
00:56:11.780 because you're all already in the business.
00:56:13.980 there is structurally zero way for you to get ahead of this problem but mel robbins wants you
00:56:19.900 to think that you're not waking up early enough like actually and and and here's the last thing
00:56:24.000 i know i've been talking too much oh my god no we love it i've listened to so many of these like
00:56:28.020 testimonies from women who have been struggling to get by to put food on the table for their kids
00:56:35.420 and so they join these quote-unquote businesses which are just scams because they think it's 0.92
00:56:41.320 going to help them and like these people are fucking paying to see mel robbins and this is 0.93
00:56:47.100 the i mean just a leech that's the thing like i we've crossed the rubicon from like you're selling 0.93
00:56:53.140 these books and they can't really like fundamentally change anyone's life but also like it's not gonna
00:56:57.620 hurt someone but what this is is actually like really predatory because another part of the mlm
00:57:04.700 psychology is like people figure out after a couple months that they haven't made any money yet
00:57:09.520 And that is where they really sink their teeth in, because then it becomes like you have
00:57:14.740 to keep buying stock.
00:57:16.300 You have to keep going.
00:57:17.540 You have to keep like losing money before you can make that money.
00:57:22.040 And that is the psychological trap where they're literally preying on people and like
00:57:26.400 conditioning and manipulating them into growing their debt.
00:57:29.620 And that's just so awful to do to people.
00:57:32.940 Like it's it's it's quite quite evil, I would say, to do to people.
00:57:36.880 It's so evil. 0.88
00:57:37.540 and even just like you're thinking about it too much girl like i that's what i mean like that
00:57:42.320 that whole hyper like feminine edward like it's progressive it's it's economically empowered of 0.99
00:57:47.900 you to like just close your brain brain empty okay you gotta girl math this shit like you know 0.99
00:57:53.000 like just keep spending money is not real you know it's that it's all of that same kind of 0.99
00:57:57.880 girly popification of everything serious and it's like flames and she's not just adjacent to the
00:58:04.720 multi-level marketing industry. She's in the heart of it. In 2021, Mel Robbins is a featured speaker
00:58:11.300 at Monat's Monations Conference. Monat is one of these many MLM companies. It is a hair care and
00:58:20.740 skin care MLM. Because of rules put in place by the FTC, MLMs are required to put out income
00:58:28.520 disclosure statements, which show you how much money their distributors make. And after looking
00:58:33.960 at monates i can tell you that at monate 94 of the company exists at the lowest rank jesus because
00:58:42.040 the bottom of the pyramid is always the biggest by a lot and their medium annual income without
00:58:47.600 factoring in products which they have to purchase to sell in the first place was 19
00:58:53.900 dollars. Jesus. Only 0.16% of the company, or 16 out of every 1,000 distributors, makes 45 to
00:59:04.740 $55,000 a year, which is an almost livable wage for some places in the US. And the total
00:59:11.240 percentage of the company that makes more than that is 0.1%, or 10 people per thousand. So in
00:59:18.240 total 26 out of every 1000 distributors at monate are making a living wage at this company and that
00:59:26.280 is not factoring in expenses or health insurance which i definitely don't have or the fact that
00:59:31.160 you've now alienated your entire social network by dming every person on facebook to buy your
00:59:37.240 terrible products that's another thing about this specific mlm that is like i would love to see mel
00:59:42.640 Robbins do a daily routine with these skincare, hair care, and makeup products because no one 0.99
00:59:49.380 uses this stuff. Not only are they not high quality, there are horror stories of people
00:59:53.700 like using these products on their hair and having like bad outcomes. So it's just like,
00:59:58.360 it's such a scam. If even a part of what she was saying was true, you would think she'd at least
01:00:04.800 be like, and this is a really good lip gloss, right? Because like at the end of the day,
01:00:07.960 you're supposed to be selling beauty products, but that's not even, that doesn't even come into
01:00:11.060 the equation is like, are the products you're selling actually worthwhile? Yeah, 26 out of
01:00:16.460 every 1000 distributors are making a living wage before expenses, one such expense being
01:00:21.380 these distributor conferences that these companies put on, that they charge the distributors to
01:00:27.900 attend, which typically consist of motivational speeches by people like Mel Robbins telling them
01:00:33.300 to work harder to increase their downline to a group of financially struggling women who will
01:00:38.200 statistically not grow their downlines because the bulk of the people like i said who will ever 0.93
01:00:43.300 work at the company are already working at the company this is where mel robbins went to give
01:00:48.980 her speech which by the way according to a bunch of different you know public speaking fee websites
01:00:53.300 her fee is between one and three hundred thousand dollars oh my god wow that's insane i've talked a
01:01:03.500 lot about Mel Robbins sort of avoiding the structural realities of the world that we live
01:01:10.580 in because it's the only thing that she can do for her advice to seem reasonable. But like I said,
01:01:16.620 I've been watching a lot of episodes of her podcast, the Mel Robbins podcast. And a few
01:01:21.880 months ago, she had Barbara Corcoran on, who is the founder of Corcoran Real Estate Group 0.99
01:01:27.520 and Shark Tank Investor. We've had a lot of Shark Tank on this podcast recently.
01:01:31.220 in this podcast episode my ears perked up when mel addressed bias against women in the workplace 0.78
01:01:38.380 i was like okay interesting okay woke woke o'clock and she asked barbara corcoran what
01:01:46.140 she would do to combat it now i'm gonna play this video it is mostly barbara corcoran speaking but
01:01:53.040 i think it uh really well represents the story that both of these women tell other women i'd
01:01:59.180 Let's talk a little bit more about your just insights
01:02:03.520 about women and success and being successful, 0.99
01:02:07.260 because there is a lot of pressure, 1.00
01:02:09.380 there is bias in the workplace,
01:02:12.140 but you have always seemed to just pick yourself up,
01:02:15.660 shake it off and plow forward,
01:02:17.680 regardless of what was going on around you.
01:02:19.960 You built one of the most successful real estate businesses
01:02:22.580 and a male-dominated business. 0.99
01:02:25.420 How do you want women to think about
01:02:29.180 both the very real things that are against us
01:02:32.580 in terms of the way that business is structured,
01:02:34.620 but the opportunity that that creates
01:02:36.420 and what kind of mindset you need to have.
01:02:38.260 Well, you know, there's always real things against you,
01:02:40.520 but I did it a little differently than most.
01:02:42.480 I never thought of myself as a woman.
01:02:44.720 Not a single day did I think of myself as a woman.
01:02:47.760 I thought of myself as a competitor, just like a man. 1.00
01:02:50.980 I was a competitor and I was going to put you under the table
01:02:53.340 without a doubt by the time I finished, all right?
01:02:56.320 So not having that liability or thinking I was weak
01:02:59.600 or at a disadvantage of some kind or another
01:03:01.980 was an advantage to me.
01:03:03.920 Girl, I can't get out of my face. 0.73
01:03:06.760 She basically also just said that to be a woman is, 0.98
01:03:10.640 like, she basically was like,
01:03:11.480 I didn't think of myself as a woman.
01:03:12.580 I didn't think of myself as weak. 0.99
01:03:14.940 I'm not one of those weak bitches 1.00
01:03:16.160 who complains about gender or whatever. 0.99
01:03:18.200 I get up 30 minutes earlier than the boys
01:03:20.940 so I can get mine, okay?
01:03:23.260 They want to discriminate against me, let them. 0.95
01:03:26.320 oh my god like that is like margaret thatcher levels of like whatever girl like let me drink
01:03:36.700 let me drink my wicked stanley i'm so annoyed 0.92
01:03:39.120 i didn't think of myself as a woman it's gonna it's my my new sleep paralysis demon is her going 0.93
01:03:47.460 i didn't think of myself as a woman is there a queer joke in there that we can make that's what
01:03:52.660 i was thinking about like some like trans curious thoughts in there non-binary that they were like 0.51
01:03:58.640 they're like i saw myself as a they them well that's like a turf argument that sometimes turfs
01:04:03.700 will make about trans men is that like they didn't want to deal with structural inequalities that 0.51
01:04:08.940 women face so they just became men that's like jk rowling's thing right like jk rowling will always
01:04:14.600 be like if i like if i were born today maybe i would have been a trans man it's like that is not 0.97
01:04:20.000 why trans men exist jk just because you have a shitty dad and misogyny does not mean that you 0.97
01:04:26.060 deal with any sort of gender identity or anything like that like you can also just hate misogyny 0.97
01:04:32.380 and be cis but this barbara corcoran advice which mel robbins is obviously co-signing this is like
01:04:37.340 one degree separated from that yeah this is just so mel because like i said it's like the one time
01:04:44.540 where she like tries to bring up almost starts flirting with the idea of bringing up structural
01:04:49.900 reality like well i just think my way out of it and then where does race fit into that then because
01:04:55.460 there's not because it is like you know there's no way for me to just be like i don't see color
01:05:00.020 you know i choose not to see myself as a black woman i'm just like i just wake up every day
01:05:04.120 and i'm like they said the n-word but like whatever girl it's it just it's so lazy and again
01:05:10.560 as someone who was a public defender in new york right in the 90s right you would have intimate 0.97
01:05:19.280 knowledge of this ridiculous i guarantee you she faced entrenched sexism that she is choosing right
01:05:26.580 now to deflect from because i think part of the real answer as to how she overcame this is what 0.70
01:05:32.160 she doesn't want to get into which is what you just said princess which is like she relied on
01:05:36.120 the privileges that she did have to overcome those things she relied on her whiteness she relied on 1.00
01:05:42.960 her wealth she relied on her connections that is how she was able to like break through glass 1.00
01:05:48.660 ceilings that's not advice that can be transferred over to anyone else so they come up with this 0.99
01:05:53.420 bs stuff that maybe they theoretically could transfer over to someone else and you know what
01:05:58.360 we were talking about this emma and i last week with our kevin o'leary episode but i do think we
01:06:04.180 should consider the audience for this kind of content because one of the number one responses
01:06:09.280 i got on instagram when i posted about making this episode was my mom or my dad but mostly my mom
01:06:15.900 loves her books loves mel robbins podcast this is for a certain i would say boomer demographic
01:06:24.660 of listeners who i think whether they would admit to this or not are inclined to accept
01:06:31.400 these self-soothing stories about bootstraps and merit it allows them to say like oh like you know
01:06:40.440 my kid is bitching and whining about not being able to job or not being able to afford a house
01:06:45.340 well look mel robbins and i this is how we did it like you're doing everything wrong like you you
01:06:51.540 you chose to get a nothing degree you chose to eat mcdonald's and it's just like it's just so
01:06:58.300 negative and i think one of the big things that we're seeing gender wise between these two things
01:07:01.960 is like men are encouraged to be bostrous and be bigger through aggression but women are are still
01:07:09.340 being told to do it but do it in a way that does not disturb the status quo it's like the men get
01:07:16.880 to shape it and as a woman you fit into it and you find a way despite it but did nothing about
01:07:22.720 then how do you change the culture to that make it easier for everybody else because you don't 0.97
01:07:27.180 think about that you're just thinking about you yeah could i pee really fast and then we'll let
01:07:31.180 them yes of course see you in a minute i'd like to take a quick break from the show to give a
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01:08:57.100 at blueland.com slash fruity that is blueland.com slash fruity thank you so much to blueland as
01:09:05.820 always for sponsoring this show and now let's get back to the episode now my dear listener
01:09:13.200 it's time for you to let me let you let them in may of 2023 mel robbins put out a video
01:09:24.860 where she said she had just heard about something called the let them theory.
01:09:30.020 I just heard about this thing called the let them theory.
01:09:33.220 I freaking love this.
01:09:34.520 If your friends are not inviting you out to brunch this weekend, let them.
01:09:39.640 If the person that you're really attracted to is not interested in a commitment, let them.
01:09:46.080 If your kids do not want to get up and go to that thing with you this week, let them.
01:09:54.100 So much time and energy is wasted on forcing other people to match our expectations.
01:10:01.340 And the truth is, if somebody, especially somebody you're dating or who's a friend or somebody you're trying to partner with in business,
01:10:08.120 if they are not showing up how you need them to show up, do not try to force them to change.
01:10:13.280 Let them be themselves because they are revealing who they are to you.
01:10:17.920 Just let them.
01:10:20.280 And then you get to choose what you do next. 0.99
01:10:23.380 girl this is some tiktok bullshit i know it's it's so of like emotional boundaries derogatory 0.98
01:10:34.300 yes you don't owe anyone anything yeah it's like it reminds me of like when i was poly and i would 0.98
01:10:40.980 go into like the polyamorous advice facebook where they'd be like you are not responsible
01:10:45.080 for anyone else's emotions but your own if your partner has a problem with you going out then
01:10:50.640 that's their thing that they have to unlock no sense of like collectivism at all it was it's so
01:10:55.900 weird it also reminds me of one of my favorite tweets which is i don't know man sometimes it
01:11:00.640 just depends right because i'm like this does not apply to every situation even the ones she's
01:11:06.500 describing if all of your friends are planning events without you maybe that's because your
01:11:12.080 friends suck but maybe it's because you've done something and your friends are trying to like 0.98
01:11:17.020 or maybe they're not being direct with you about it but maybe you're the problem and like if you 1.00
01:11:21.680 feed this advice to someone who is naturally or intentionally narcissistic you could easily create
01:11:28.160 a monster same thing I mean even with the 5 4 3 2 1 it's like if your goal is to uh punch someone
01:11:34.940 in the face and you 5 4 3 2 1 it like that's not necessarily a good outcome either yeah well you
01:11:42.360 might be getting ahead in my outline because later on let's just say she uses the five second rule
01:11:48.580 to justify some pretty insane advice to people but let's focus on let them so i'm at my most
01:11:58.820 annoying right now i've had a really just like i you guys just have to understand like i destroyed
01:12:03.340 my youtube recommended algorithm forever because of this like just just let me let me be insane
01:12:08.880 You have to have a second private channel. That's what I do, because I can't let them know.
01:12:13.640 So in the book that Mel would later publish called The Let Them Theory, she claims to have
01:12:19.620 invented the let them theory. Whereas by her own admission in this very video,
01:12:25.440 it's something that she just, quote, heard about.
01:12:28.400 I just heard about this thing called the let them theory. I freaking love this.
01:12:33.460 But we'll get more into who owns the let them theory in a few minutes.
01:12:38.280 In any case, this short video goes very viral.
01:12:41.440 And in December of 2024, she releases the smash hit book, The Let Them Theory.
01:12:46.240 We've mentioned this a couple times with regard to her other works,
01:12:49.440 but I just want to say, having read a good chunk of this book this week,
01:12:54.320 it's just not, it's not a book.
01:12:57.360 This theory isn't complicated enough to be a book.
01:13:02.320 Everything that you need to know about The Let Them Theory,
01:13:05.260 you heard her say in that whatever it was 60 second video i want to give a shout out to my
01:13:10.520 friends michael and peter of the if books could kill podcast because they often say this with
01:13:15.400 self-help books like it could have just been a blog post it could have been a tiktok yeah it's
01:13:20.220 so interesting how especially with tiktok virality becomes a way of you know getting authority or
01:13:26.280 getting accreditation even though tiktok is probably the easiest thing to get viral on
01:13:32.500 accidentally so it isn't even a parameter of like well it like in this case Mel Robbins already had 0.68
01:13:38.260 a name so that already automatically goes into cliques and people engaging like her job is to 0.71
01:13:43.780 sell people things but it's just so bizarre that she got a book deal out of something that she
01:13:50.720 heard from someone else and then was and put theory next to it as if that like means something
01:13:58.560 As Mel describes in the book, the let them theory, which is no longer, according to the book, something that she just heard about, but now something that she created, is born out of the idea that you can't do the five second rule for other people.
01:14:12.240 So focus on yourself and let them do them.
01:14:16.200 She writes, the five second rule changed my relationship with myself.
01:14:20.440 The let them theory changed my relationship with other people.
01:14:23.940 In the book, Mel says that she came up with the let them theory before her son's prom night when her son and his friends wanted to go out into the rain to get fast food in their tuxes before the prom.
01:14:37.520 This stressed Mel out and she thought it was a bad idea.
01:14:41.380 They were going to get their shoes muddy, etc.
01:14:43.840 But her daughter just told Mel to let them.
01:14:47.900 And immediately her brain unclenched. 1.00
01:14:51.320 Let them!
01:14:52.540 It's like biblical.
01:14:53.940 and this and the sky opened up and yeah exactly and the sea parted if pharaoh had just let them
01:15:00.740 people go then god said so wouldn't have had no problems he failed at the let them theory biblically
01:15:09.140 that's it
01:15:10.280 that was good that was good so anyway i don't know i mean the sun going to get fast food
01:15:23.300 before prom it's a fair enough example i think like if your son's suit gets dirty it's not the
01:15:28.940 end of the world maybe he'll learn a lesson in responsibility doesn't really have anything to do
01:15:34.160 with like your own behavior it's not that deep this advice from her daughter works so well though
01:15:42.320 that she begins applying it to everything she writes within a week i could not believe how
01:15:48.920 different I felt. I started saying let them any time I felt stressed, tense, or frustrated. And
01:15:56.180 funny, I realized it was almost always regarding other people. Let my family be late to absolutely
01:16:04.400 everything we go to. Let grandma read the news out loud. Let people hate the photo I just posted
01:16:10.840 online. Let Oakley be mad that I'm not letting him stay out late tonight. Let them leave dishes
01:16:17.980 in the sink. No, girl, that's how you get mice. Let them do construction during the Monday morning 1.00
01:16:22.760 commute. You can't control that. What are you going to do? Text Zoron? We don't all have that
01:16:30.040 information. Let my relatives be judgmental of my career. Let my mother-in-law disagree with my
01:16:36.320 parenting. Let them be sold out of bagels at the bakery. Well, that's not okay. Let the neighbor's 1.00
01:16:42.400 dog bark all day. Two simple words, let them changed everything. That's crazy. Like I was
01:16:50.980 like, some of these things are not like the other, like, first of all, they're not allowed
01:16:55.040 to be sold out of bagels. We're from New York. That's, that's unacceptable. That's the thing is
01:16:58.740 like, sometimes the let them theory like could work out really well. Like something I've seen
01:17:03.740 women on like Reddit say that I agree with is like, if your husband doesn't know how to do his
01:17:09.180 own laundry just like let it get dirty or if your husband like doesn't buy gift like Christmas
01:17:13.780 presents for his side of the family just like let that happen and like let him face the consequences
01:17:18.200 of those of his inaction but that does not apply to like every situation even some of the ones that
01:17:25.740 she's listed here like like it's just nonsensical if you try to apply it to everything uh she
01:17:32.500 describes going on Instagram and like she said in this video so it's hard to know if this is like
01:17:37.660 theoretical or something that's like actually happened but in the book she says it actually
01:17:40.880 happened she goes on instagram and realizes that all of her girlfriends took a weekend vacation
01:17:45.740 without her her response let them should i read this little excerpt please at first those words
01:17:54.900 felt like a rejection like i was giving in but then i realized something important let them
01:18:01.480 wasn't about giving in it was about releasing myself from the control i never had in the first
01:18:07.600 place. Because here's the truth. No matter how much I tried to analyze the situation or how many
01:18:13.420 ways I could try to control or fix it, nothing I did would change what had happened. Their choice
01:18:19.320 to go away didn't have to make me feel bad, but my attempts to control the situation were making me
01:18:25.420 feel horrible. The sad truth is I did this to myself. My friends didn't do anything to me.
01:18:32.500 They were just living their lives. They are allowed to go away. They are allowed to play
01:18:37.120 weekend with whomever they want the way i reacted to their trip is what hurt me before we comment
01:18:44.560 on this i just want to add she goes on to describe her philosophy a little further quote if you're
01:18:50.160 struggling to change your life achieve your goals or feel happier i want you to hear this the problem
01:18:56.320 isn't you the problem is the power you unknowingly give to other people here's why the let them
01:19:03.040 theory works when you stop trying to control things that aren't yours to control you stop
01:19:08.880 wasting your energy you reclaim your time your peace of mind and your focus you realize that
01:19:15.800 your happiness is tied to your actions not someone else's behavior opinions or mood the truth is
01:19:23.820 other people hold no real power over you unless you give it to them like eleanor roosevelt said
01:19:30.760 this in like two sentences like i digest like i don't know genuinely how she was able to publish
01:19:37.460 this this is just like the opposite of brand new information like this is just so repetitive it's
01:19:43.640 not even bad advice because you should be careful about like giving too much of your energy away
01:19:48.020 to other people but the way she packages it is just there's just something so artificial
01:19:52.840 and disingenuous about it that just kind of like it just makes the whole thing very
01:19:56.860 both annoying and gross at the same time i think it's like kind of bad advice though i mean not in
01:20:03.200 every situation obviously yeah like you're right there i mean there is like of course the self-care
01:20:07.560 element i think this can be bad in two directions one being what we were saying is it's like this
01:20:13.220 can very quickly i think led itself to like narcissistic personality disorder where it's
01:20:18.680 like if someone's mad at you for something that you did let them you know you can't control how
01:20:24.140 they react but then in the other direction which i think comes out in this passage specifically is
01:20:30.000 it's like if something bad happens to you or you are up against some sort of structural inequality
01:20:35.800 or a trauma or whatever it's makes the bad feelings that you can have about that entirely
01:20:43.420 your own fault because she's claiming that the only power anyone has over you is the power you
01:20:48.480 give them which is just not true right not to go head to head with you on whether this is good
01:20:52.960 advice or not oh yeah no i mean i think what is good advice is like what you said but i also agree
01:20:57.980 like there's this attitude that kind of ignores the fact that like we are all part of the system
01:21:03.000 we didn't just fall off the coconut tree and i think i've just also seen other books present
01:21:09.000 this in just a lot better ways like i think of like all of the most popular books about polyamory
01:21:14.680 or being in an open relationship they all ask you to be very introspective about what is it that you
01:21:19.840 want and to actually unpack like why do you have certain expectations about certain kind of
01:21:24.080 relationships why do you prioritize certain kinds of relationships over the other and how to actually
01:21:28.980 have healthy communication with people not just like letting them step all over you and then being
01:21:34.000 like let them so yeah I get what you're saying Matt absolutely I feel like my issue with the way
01:21:40.740 that she tries to make all of this advice so universal and apply to every situation is that
01:21:47.360 it ultimately becomes a false premise because it's like we live in a society and we have created a
01:21:54.160 system in which people do have power over others and if you're constantly trying to say like no
01:21:59.900 one can tell me what to do like no one has power over me only I have power and control over myself
01:22:05.240 in some ways like you would actually be disrupting the social fabric because I feel like this also
01:22:10.580 feeds into the mentality of like I'm not getting vaccinated because like I control my own reality
01:22:17.340 and other people don't have control over me or even like the attitudes that people like claim
01:22:23.220 to hate which is when like students in class are like I won't listen to the teacher or follow the
01:22:28.300 rules like it's just a very nuanced the world is more nuanced than these black or white prescriptions 0.95
01:22:34.740 would lead you to believe and therefore the advice ultimately becomes meaningless once you try to
01:22:42.320 relate it to like the complexities of the real world and as a public defender as matt keeps
01:22:48.260 bringing up she should know this because like public defenders are notoriously like under
01:22:53.580 resourced she knows from her first career that the system definitely has control over you that 0.99
01:23:01.320 when you put yourself in front of a jury trial they definitely have power over you it does not
01:23:07.540 make sense that someone with her background i mean it does make sense because she's a grifter but
01:23:11.160 knowing what her background is it makes this seem just even more illogical yeah i i kept thinking
01:23:17.120 when i was reading this book about like labor organizing being born out of like the reality
01:23:22.340 just one of so many examples the civil rights movement feminism literally any social justice
01:23:27.280 movement any movement for any marginalized people stonewall these are born out of realities that
01:23:32.560 people understand that actually people do have power over us that we did not give them
01:23:37.740 and we can't just be like the the police are raiding the gay bar again let them could you
01:23:44.440 imagine if silvia rivera was like let them i need to make this this is a pride episode technically
01:23:50.140 because it's coming out during june so i need to have a pride reference in there somewhere could 0.68
01:23:52.780 you imagine she was just like let them it like gives the game away that all of the examples she
01:23:58.260 comes up with are so benign yes where it's like let your grandma like read the news out loud like
01:24:03.920 that's not even like very much of a real problem it's just a temporary annoyance that would pass
01:24:08.620 whether or not you bought this book but also like the one where it's like let my mother-in-law
01:24:13.700 disagree with my parenting again it really depends like for most cases this is probably true but if
01:24:21.040 your mother-in-law disagrees with your parenting because you're letting your kids skip school
01:24:24.620 three out of five days a week then she has a point and like you should not be doing that like
01:24:30.060 it's just so useless like this advice to me is only good in like very specific like interpersonal
01:24:38.300 situations and even then it's not good for all of them right so this book sold everyone's hold on
01:24:46.140 to your hats 10 million copies in 2025 jesus and i think there's a reason
01:24:56.040 you know cat's mouth still hasn't shut i'm devastated i know it's so depressing
01:25:06.020 but it totally makes sense because go ahead matt i caught you off i just think that
01:25:11.240 yes like mel robbins is a talented grifter but also we are living in a political environment
01:25:18.920 that has people so thoroughly disenfranchised from the power of collectivism from the power
01:25:25.200 of tackling systemic change, and really from power at all. And I think that creates an emotional
01:25:32.280 vacuum for quote unquote advice like this. Because if people consciously or otherwise feel like they
01:25:38.440 have no power to affect the world around them, I think it makes sense that you will just want to
01:25:43.500 take all of that and turn it inward, which to me is so depressing. It's so depressing because it's
01:25:48.860 like so many great nonfiction books like really struggle to get even a couple thousand copies
01:25:54.680 sold even a couple like hundred selling a few hundred copies of a book can be really really
01:25:58.640 hard so like when i me trying to apply the let them theory to hearing the information that there
01:26:04.700 were 10 million copies i'm just like just let them spend 30 dollars on a hardcover of this book
01:26:10.020 instead of like something that will teach them anything ah i know this is why we podcast
01:26:16.060 exactly for the revolution we podcast the only good thing about so many people buying this book
01:26:26.540 is that it makes money for the publisher so that they can they can pay for books that aren't going
01:26:31.340 to sell a lot of copies like that's the good news about runaway bestsellers is they pay for
01:26:36.000 other authors but even still it's it's disconcerting absolutely i should add let them
01:26:42.680 is only the first part of her theory,
01:26:45.780 which is, you know, maybe not her theory.
01:26:47.420 The second part, she says, is let me.
01:26:51.640 Let them is about not allowing
01:26:53.400 other people's behavior to bother you.
01:26:55.920 Let me is about, quote,
01:26:57.940 taking responsibility for what you do next.
01:27:00.960 From the book, quote,
01:27:03.120 let me stop expecting other people
01:27:05.880 to always include me.
01:27:07.620 Let me take responsibility
01:27:09.520 for what I want in life.
01:27:11.120 let me figure out the deeper issue that i need to look at just remarkably vague let me be more
01:27:19.680 proactive about reaching out to people let me invite people to do something this week she
01:27:25.040 continued you get the point uh let me she says is essential to make sure that let them doesn't
01:27:31.760 make you feel lonely or isolated i don't know i kind of feel like the people she was around at
01:27:35.820 this point were like you have to try to insert something in here that doesn't make the readers
01:27:40.700 of this book total narcissists yeah and like she tried she's like here here's a little bit of
01:27:47.400 praxis as a treat yeah that's right that's right i also feel like the psychic damage of her friends
01:27:54.200 going on this weekend trip like it exists throughout this the undercurrent of this entire
01:27:59.960 book and i'm like i feel like this is just totally me guessing here but i'm like it sounds based on
01:28:05.940 this paragraph like the problem was that you weren't being proactive in those friendships
01:28:10.620 but like instead of doing that you wrote an entire book about it and sold 10 million copies like
01:28:16.060 did you get invited to the next girl's trip this is all of course assuming that that story is
01:28:20.200 actually true right and she didn't just make it up which kind of brings me to the plagiarism
01:28:25.400 accusations because we already know that when she first posted a video she was like i just heard
01:28:30.540 about the let them theory and then it goes viral so she publishes a book where she says
01:28:34.520 I invented the let them theory when my daughter told me let them. Here is what we know. In 2019,
01:28:41.500 four years before Mel Robbins publishes the let them theory, Cassie Phillips was a struggling
01:28:48.700 writer when she wrote and published online a poem called Let Them. It's kind of long, but it starts
01:28:55.760 just let them. If they want to choose something or someone over you, let them. If they want to go
01:29:01.580 weeks without talking to you let them if they are okay with never seeing you let them if they are
01:29:06.100 okay with always putting themselves first let them if they are showing you who they are and not what
01:29:10.720 you perceive them to be let them she goes on but uh you know kind of sounds familiar the poem goes
01:29:19.220 viral on social media in september of 2022 and in may 2023 is when mel robbins first posted that
01:29:27.800 TikTok, where she had, quote, just heard about something called the let them theory.
01:29:31.780 I just heard about this thing called the let them theory.
01:29:34.660 In May of 2024, prior to the release of Mel's book, Mel tried to trademark let them for
01:29:41.860 books, apparel, coaching, and online content.
01:29:44.980 Now, to my understanding, those trademarks are still pending.
01:29:49.540 But I also included here another passage from the book, because I just thought this was
01:29:54.360 like so on the money in a way that mel robbins probably didn't intend every business has a
01:29:59.540 formula follow it i say that because one of the things i see people get hung up on all the time
01:30:05.400 is this belief that i need to be different that is a fancy way to say that you're afraid
01:30:11.940 other people will think that you copied
01:30:14.520 reading this for the first time everyone uh this is an example of of how your fear of what other
01:30:23.500 people think holds you back from following the most obvious easiest and most proven path to
01:30:29.720 success uh let them think you copied them because you did and they copied the formula from someone
01:30:37.680 else because they did okay but you're gonna but you're gonna trademark it though so no one else
01:30:43.940 i want to give you my my personal theory of what happened here and this is of course a
01:30:53.480 alleged Mel Robbins, please don't sue me. You don't, you have enough money already. Um, I think
01:30:59.060 what happened was she probably has a team of people that scours the internet for things that
01:31:05.860 she could post about. Maybe they come up with their own ideas too, but I feel like they probably
01:31:09.760 look for a lot of things that they can gather and be like, how can we repackage this in a way that's
01:31:14.120 like a little Mel Robbins-y? And I feel like if I had to guess, someone from her team probably
01:31:22.040 found this poem when it went viral and was like we can probably make this a little mel robbinsy
01:31:26.620 let's talk about how you just discovered the let them theory and then of course it went really
01:31:30.640 viral she can't really justify writing a whole book that'll sell millions of copies from someone
01:31:36.780 else's idea so she has to like retroactively create a story where her daughter told her to 0.67
01:31:42.800 let her son get her tux dirty get his tux dirty and then it's like your own thing now and even if
01:31:48.000 like and i think they say this on the if books could kill podcast like if she had like absorbed
01:31:54.000 it in her like primordial stew and like forgot that she found it from someone else when it comes
01:32:00.560 up that way you should be like oh my god like i did not realize it came from this poem i did like
01:32:05.780 i heard it from my daughter and i thought that was really interesting like there are so many ways to
01:32:10.980 handle that with a little bit of grace when you have so much money when you're so successful that
01:32:17.000 It's just it's just so only the only the creator of the let them theory would be like, no, let me.
01:32:23.320 No, she's at this point in her career where she could continue making money while also devoting most of her time to spotlighting other people and helping them grow their careers.
01:32:32.940 But she's like, let me make money off of it by myself.
01:32:38.880 So Mel Robbins has vehemently denied the claim that this was plagiarized.
01:32:42.720 But it has become such a thing online where so many people believe that it was plagiarized.
01:32:48.800 There was a long form Atlantic article that was published about this.
01:32:52.680 And even if Mel Robbins, even if she really genuinely believed that she didn't plagiarize it,
01:32:59.760 she could, as a PR move, for example, pay this writer a million dollars.
01:33:04.620 Mel Robbins is so rich that she could pay this writer a million dollars. 1.00
01:33:09.100 The public would think that Mel Robbins was a goddess for doing this charitable act.
01:33:14.420 And literally, Mel Robbins would feel nothing financially.
01:33:17.880 Like, that's the part that I just can't.
01:33:19.260 It's like, I don't know.
01:33:20.140 Am I crazy?
01:33:21.360 Let me be.
01:33:22.360 I think she feels, and this is probably true, that if she opens up the doorway to, like,
01:33:27.600 crediting where she gets these ideas from, then it's going to be really hard to shut
01:33:31.460 that door because then people are going to be like you've gotten all of your ideas from like
01:33:36.880 viral posts on the internet and you know here's what i will also say about let them is like even
01:33:41.420 cassie phillips version like i do think the the syntax that mel robbins is using around
01:33:48.080 let them theory seems to be pretty obviously taken from this viral poem but also you know
01:33:54.220 none of this is original thought just like all of mel robbins's other advice it's just like
01:34:00.640 really basic therapy concepts branded for like the girl boss audience and repackaged and
01:34:08.380 remarketed and the thing that i thought of the whole time that i was reading this book is do
01:34:13.340 you guys know the serenity prayer yes catholic school alumni here so i don't know why i know
01:34:19.500 the serenity prayer i think just because it's like it's on so many like live laugh love
01:34:23.720 like i think i've had it like framed in an airbnb before you know what i mean yeah and if you've
01:34:28.280 anything about like recovery or aa they always do the serenity prayer at the end of like the
01:34:33.040 episodes and stuff like that goes like this god grant me the serenity to accept the things i
01:34:39.120 cannot change the courage to change the things i can and wisdom to know the difference that's
01:34:46.460 the let them theory yeah the serenity prayer i feel like goes way harder than the let them
01:34:52.460 because the serenity prayer i'm like it's got some juice behind it yeah the wisdom to know the
01:34:56.680 difference is like that's a good exactly i feel like the let them theory is just like a dumbed
01:35:03.180 down version of it that does not even capture the nuance of the original sentiment i was also i was
01:35:09.160 reading the wikipedia page for the serenity prayer and that goes back even further uh first century
01:35:14.880 greek stoic philosopher epictetus wrote make the best use of what is in your power and take the
01:35:20.800 rest as it happens some things are up to us and some things are not up to us the eighth century
01:35:25.820 indian buddhist scholar shantideva wrote if there's a remedy when trouble strikes what reason
01:35:31.400 is there for dejection and if there is no help for it what use is there being glum beautifully
01:35:37.520 written and then the 11th century jewish philosopher solomon ibn gabriel apologies on
01:35:43.760 pronunciation wrote at the head of all understanding is distinguishing between what is and what cannot
01:35:48.940 be and the consoling of what is not in our power to change aka the let them theory it's just this
01:35:56.660 right it's just this we've always had this we've always had this and don't forget the 1988 bobby
01:36:03.240 mcferrin song don't worry be happy one of one of the classic pieces of let them theory i guess like
01:36:11.540 you know it's not illegal for mel robbins to take a very very very basic philosophical concept
01:36:17.620 that's always existed and repackage it with like a you know nice lime green cover but I think yeah
01:36:24.700 it's just like the trademarking the like she talks about it in every interview like I've created this
01:36:31.820 thing and it's completely changed the world I mean even on the cover of this book which I have
01:36:36.620 sitting behind me at the top of the cover of the book it says a life-changing tool that millions
01:36:42.240 of people can't stop talking about i mean evidently we are sitting here talking about it so
01:36:48.020 like i said i read a lot of the book and most of it is just repeating this one piece of advice
01:36:57.440 and applying it to many different situations but it was like a little green eggs and ham like
01:37:03.240 would you let them in a box would you let them with a fox would you let them in a house would
01:37:09.180 you let them with a mouse these were some real uh real examples at a checkout line and the person
01:37:17.820 in front of you is being slow let them on a plane and someone next to you is coughing let them this
01:37:24.400 is an actual quote from the book so how do you use the let them theory to get someone to stop
01:37:30.440 coughing you don't you have to let them cough let them emphasis hers yeah let them you might
01:37:42.680 be wondering how let them could apply to your career here's mel telling you what to do when
01:37:49.460 your boss won't give you the promotion you deserve i know it's tough to hear because it's true yes
01:37:55.780 it's not fair yes you've earned the promotion and yes you deserve to be angry about it but let me
01:38:03.000 ask you this question who is responsible for your career that's right you are it's time for the let
01:38:11.760 me part stop fixating on your current situation and start focusing on finding a better opportunity 0.94
01:38:18.760 you lazy gen z-er okay right now there's an amazing job with a kick-ass boss a better salary 0.59
01:38:27.560 and a desk next to a window waiting for you to come and find it health insurance we can't say 1.00
01:38:33.120 your company is not the only company on this planet and there's a million bosses out there
01:38:39.960 who would be ecstatic to help advance your career. Let me go get it.
01:38:48.180 I don't think that's true. It's not true. Definitely not true. It's not true. Like there
01:38:54.600 are a million bosses out there. There are not a million bosses out there who want to help you
01:38:59.180 advance your career. Like most bosses I don't think are that great, let alone like going to
01:39:04.140 help you advance your career whatever that means and like dying for you to to come and take the
01:39:11.140 office next to the window with a higher salary than you currently have it's prosperity gospel
01:39:15.840 it's not true i was listening recently to an interview that breaking points on youtube did
01:39:23.360 with this recent college graduate who had gone viral because he was telling the story he was i
01:39:29.640 I believe like a software engineer or like something he, I guess, like last month graduated
01:39:34.040 from college and got the degree that, of course, everyone for the last 20 years told young kids to
01:39:39.480 get. And he applied to 100 jobs. And I think he got like one interview and of course not get that
01:39:46.200 job. And I believe that the one interview that he did get was for an unpaid position. So tell me
01:39:52.400 how that works. So it's just I mean, it's it's just literally not true. This just pisses me off
01:39:58.960 so much because this only serves a to enrich mel robbins and b to make everyone else feel terribly
01:40:07.940 about the fact that they are systematically disadvantaged but actually mel robbins is
01:40:12.700 telling you that it's your fault you're not trying hard enough and you applied to 100 jobs 0.99
01:40:15.780 and got one interview well maybe apply to 101 yeah lazy fucking non-binary college students 0.99
01:40:21.080 right why are you buying the avocado toast we told you to not let them force you to have 0.97
01:40:29.060 there are some testimonials on the website from people who have read the book and say it really
01:40:36.180 helped them and the people who provided those testimonials are oprah winfrey okay jay shetty
01:40:44.480 awesome chloe kardashian two best-selling authors and then chloe kardashian's good 0.99
01:40:52.480 america co-founder shut the fuck up shut the fuck up i will say if anyone believes in the 1.00
01:40:59.120 let them theory though it is chloe kardashian she will let let omar smoke the crack that's 1.00
01:41:05.960 a ringing endorsement she definitely uses let them theory that's what is really so bonkers
01:41:10.580 is the fact that like this type of celebrity endorsement
01:41:12.840 also clearly works so well.
01:41:15.560 And I'm like, Oprah doesn't need another theory.
01:41:18.800 Oprah like has figured it out.
01:41:20.960 I promise you.
01:41:23.060 Like these types of books and this type of advice
01:41:26.060 only really works with working in quotation marks
01:41:30.000 if you have already made it.
01:41:32.100 If you are already very successful,
01:41:34.320 if you already have the kind of job
01:41:36.200 where you have that sort of mobility
01:41:38.080 to accept better offers,
01:41:39.880 then yeah, this is a great book for you. But the vast, vast, vast majority of people are not in
01:41:46.200 that position. Yeah. And I know I joked about it, but I do keep bringing up healthcare because that
01:41:50.680 is a huge part of why people stay in jobs these days is because they need health insurance because
01:41:56.660 it's so expensive and only going to get more so. And especially when you have an audience that's
01:42:01.200 mostly women, it's like women need to have regular checkups, pap smears, so many things that are
01:42:06.640 super important like and the complete omission of that is just so telling as like that she doesn't
01:42:12.040 even see in her reality it's also like a lot of the language that comes up in the positive reviews
01:42:18.140 including from chloe kardashian is that the book is really freeing and that the book is freedom
01:42:24.940 and that the book like you're like it gives the whole game away right because you're not even
01:42:29.360 saying that you put the book into practice you're just saying that the book made you feel better
01:42:34.020 It made you feel freer.
01:42:36.760 It made you feel like you could do things.
01:42:39.840 It's all literally just like psycho speak.
01:42:42.540 You might be wondering what the let them theory has to say about politics.
01:42:48.300 Mel writes, so how do you use the let them theory to change the state of politics at
01:42:54.160 a local, national, or global level?
01:42:57.560 You don't.
01:42:58.320 the school board has already decided the senate has voted these are the two candidates running
01:43:07.600 the election is over it's tied up in the courts let them you can't change what just happened but
01:43:17.640 i never said you couldn't change the future does it seem overwhelming yes does it feel like it
01:43:23.900 won't make a difference yes do it anyway let me stay engaged and vocal on issues i care about
01:43:31.640 and do something that can change the future of my local national and global politics
01:43:37.620 don't sit around and wait for someone else to clean up the mess that you see girl what
01:43:43.760 like that defeat is screwed and then but you know what you should still try a little bit
01:43:51.560 just try a little bit it'll help maybe who could say she goes on in the following paragraphs to
01:43:58.200 like make offhanded mentions of like vote if you care that much and uh like run for office
01:44:04.620 which is not bad advice but i think she's clearly reached a place with the let them theory where
01:44:10.740 she realizes that the let them theory doesn't fucking apply to the world like this and so
01:44:15.880 she's like well if you really care that much about it run for office and it's hard but you can do 0.82
01:44:23.740 something by doing something and i'm just like whatever have you thought about waking up 30
01:44:29.360 minutes earlier to start canvassing so you could do something about it it's also really telling
01:44:34.960 to me that like by using the let them theory as it relates to politics you could advance a slate
01:44:42.260 of policies that ruins other people's lives so then how would the let them theory work for them
01:44:49.000 because with that version of the let them theory you're cutting off everyone else's ability to use
01:44:53.440 the let them theory if you've let yourself ban abortion then what is someone who's pregnant and
01:44:59.580 doesn't want to be pregnant anymore get to do what's their let them theory like just let them 0.72
01:45:04.120 force me to have this child like it's just
01:45:06.280 let them ban abortion and by letting them you will allow yourself to let me figure out what 0.89
01:45:16.160 i do now what are you talking about what what are what's what's going on that's the rule now
01:45:22.200 okay that's the goal she she writes like three chapters on like people are judging you
01:45:29.600 let them which i think is generally okay advice she says write the book ask them out
01:45:35.620 wear what you want to wear go surf all day go back to school drop out of school get a dog
01:45:41.440 book the trip stop drinking embrace your sexuality hey take the path that you've been scared to
01:45:49.360 follow okay happy pride from mel robbins everyone yeah that's like an episode of glee that's good
01:45:55.720 advice like i don't think i needed to buy let them for mel robbins to tell me to embrace my
01:45:59.960 sexuality but that's good advice i want to give her credit where credit's due like you know if
01:46:04.340 people are judging you yeah let them judge you but again it's just so vague that i i also came
01:46:09.580 back to thinking about anti-vaxxers because it's so just afraid to engage with reality that you of
01:46:15.100 course could read this if you were an anti-vaxxer and feel very empowered about your decision to
01:46:19.380 endanger the people around you it's also like take one of these as an example wear what you
01:46:24.020 want to wear what if you like violate your school or workplace's dress code and then you get fired
01:46:29.820 or suspended like how is that gonna like it's just like it doesn't work it doesn't work in 0.99
01:46:34.200 real life it's not practical I keep thinking about like what if it was fuck them instead of let them 0.98
01:46:40.200 it's just like and it's like that's actually would be more more interesting of being like 0.99
01:46:48.560 fuck it you know like like kind of like the Shonda Rhimes book about the year of saying it 0.99
01:46:52.560 to say like just say fuck it but but that's just too nihilistic but it's the same principle 1.00
01:46:58.040 the same idea of like forget everybody else like just focus on you and that will always sort of be 0.99
01:47:04.780 like you were saying before this kind of anti-collectivist thing and like how do you 0.99
01:47:08.840 evolve how do you decide which relationships are worth investing in if your default is fuck it 0.65
01:47:14.020 the last thing i want to talk about within the book the let them theory is one of the chapters 0.98
01:47:22.020 she talks about what she calls frame of reference theory everything's a fucking theory with this 0.79
01:47:27.840 and she writes my friend lisa bilyeu who is a best-selling author host of women of impact 0.90
01:47:35.500 podcast and co-founder of the billion dollar nutrition company quest nutrition shared the
01:47:41.460 concept of frame of reference with me it is a tool to help you deal with situations where someone
01:47:48.260 disapproves of who you are who you love what you believe or how you are living your life and you
01:47:53.860 want to navigate this at a deeper level and then the whole frame of reference theory is just
01:47:59.540 considering where someone else is coming from that's it it's just empathy it's like my mom
01:48:05.780 doesn't want me to move across the country this is a real example she uses maybe it's because
01:48:09.840 she's scared of losing me if i stay living across the country yeah i mean that's like
01:48:17.540 considering where someone else is coming from is pretty basic advice but but this is i mean this 0.81
01:48:26.080 is such a great and like glaring example of how all of this bullshit is just the most basic possible
01:48:33.720 advice but because lisa bill you host of the women of impact and co-founder of the billion
01:48:40.020 dollar nutrition company quest nutrition said it now it's the frame of reference theory right
01:48:46.200 It's like so tied up in like the myth of the genius CEO and like the justification of like why this person is super, super rich because all of this content is literally just like these people who are so like mediocre but like just not really bringing anything super special to the table.
01:49:03.340 but they're just repackaging very basic concepts and being like this is why i'm so rich not because
01:49:09.880 of structural inequality or the privileges that i coasted on to get me here but because i know what
01:49:15.280 empathy is right like also like being surprised by frame of reference theory you were a lawyer
01:49:23.480 you understand scope like it's like what are you trying to like it's like the infantilization of
01:49:31.880 of just like the cutesy little
01:49:32.980 no she's like dumbing herself down 1.00
01:49:37.980 to reach the widest possible audience 0.88
01:49:40.720 which is also what I
01:49:42.880 something I like to think of
01:49:43.800 as pundit brain
01:49:44.760 which makes a lot of sense 0.99
01:49:46.160 as to why she had that
01:49:47.560 as her background
01:49:48.520 wait but you should coin that
01:49:50.400 as you should call it
01:49:51.680 Mel Robbins theory
01:49:52.540 yeah
01:49:52.980 yes
01:49:54.340 that's a book I would read
01:49:55.380 there you go
01:49:56.400 the Mel Robbins let them
01:49:57.600 theory theory
01:49:58.640 by Kat Tenbart
01:49:59.520 pre-order today
01:50:01.560 link in the description
01:50:02.580 me when Mel Robbins
01:50:05.740 sues me for plagiarism
01:50:07.580 let them
01:50:09.760 you're gonna take that quote
01:50:13.760 you're gonna copy paste it send it back
01:50:15.780 with the appeal like
01:50:17.040 she said it's okay
01:50:19.520 like she gave me permission
01:50:22.000 to do this
01:50:23.420 oh my god
01:50:27.020 surviving let them
01:50:29.780 oh my mascara is gonna run okay we got this we are gonna close close the let them theory for
01:50:46.720 right now that was the sound of me closing the let them theory now when i texted kat to see if
01:50:53.400 she would be interested in doing this episode with me and gave her a brief overview of what
01:50:58.840 mel robbins has been up to kat you said literally the four horsemen of the grift apocalypse
01:51:04.120 ai mlm's secular prosperity gospel and protein we'll get to ai in a second but we have arrived
01:51:12.960 my dear listener at protein oh my god we need fiber everyone eat some beans god in early 2025
01:51:21.780 Mel Robbins, who doesn't have enough money yet, launches Pure Genius, a roughly three ounce,
01:51:30.080 100 calorie, zero sugar protein shot. Mel Robbins calls herself a co-founder of the Pure Genius
01:51:37.940 protein shot. In reality, this was created earlier on by a celebrity bodybuilder called
01:51:44.360 Dr. Mike Isretel under the name Genius Shot. And then it seems like, you know, because Mel Robbins
01:51:51.380 calls herself a co-founder so you'd think like she was like on the ground day one being like
01:51:56.000 let's develop this protein shot in reality i think she got in touch with the people who were making 0.96
01:52:01.060 it uh realized that this would be a good vehicle for her wealth and then threw a bunch of money at
01:52:07.920 it uh and then they rebranded it around mel robbins according to the website mel has quote
01:52:14.300 been deeply involved throughout every step of the product development she has also handpicked
01:52:20.260 the founding scientific advisory team of world-class physicians
01:52:24.680 specializing in nutrition, longevity, weight loss, and hormonal health.
01:52:30.360 Now, when I read this, are you guys familiar with that 2009,
01:52:34.420 not to invoke Kanye West, but...
01:52:36.340 Oh, yeah.
01:52:37.000 He was talking about Lady Gaga having just collaborated with Polaroid,
01:52:41.280 and he said, quote,
01:52:42.080 Look at Gaga. She's the creative director of Polaroid. 0.91
01:52:45.900 I like some of the Gaga songs, 1.00
01:52:47.480 but what the fuck does she know about cameras? 0.98
01:52:51.180 That's one of the best Kanye bits to this day. 0.98
01:52:54.140 Why is Mel Robbins picking the scientific advisory team? 1.00
01:52:57.420 What the fuck does she know about protein shots? 1.00
01:52:59.680 Like, so unqualified. 1.00
01:53:01.340 But you know what? 0.57
01:53:02.240 She learns from making her own mistakes and ruining her life and then doing it.
01:53:08.260 So who knows?
01:53:09.160 Right. 1.00
01:53:09.400 She doesn't need qualifications because she actually got food poisoning once. 1.00
01:53:13.440 So she knows how to develop food now.
01:53:15.340 She eats chicken every day.
01:53:16.560 She understands protein.
01:53:18.220 There's also an element to this, which is kind of insidious, which is like if you go 1.00
01:53:22.160 like look at her like the protein story, she's like talking about how women do need to build
01:53:28.180 muscle by a certain age, which is true, but you don't need to buy protein shots to do 1.00
01:53:35.260 that.
01:53:35.760 And in fact, she's making it seem like you have to have a certain level of disposable
01:53:40.420 income in order to do this thing for your health and your well-being and your longevity 0.99
01:53:44.000 when the reality like she has such a huge platform and she has so much wealth she could be doing a 1.00
01:53:49.380 real public service by showing women how you can accomplish these same goals like health goals 1.00
01:53:54.100 without needing to buy expensive useless supplements she's doing it in the most evil 1.00
01:54:01.080 way possible that wouldn't make her money right it actually probably would make her money because 1.00
01:54:06.200 she could she could monetize the ad revenue on those videos but it wouldn't make her as much 1.00
01:54:10.440 money as just making her own fucking protein drink here's mel talking about the protein shot 1.00
01:54:16.060 this woman would sell you crack cocaine if she could brand it as a self-help product oh my god 1.00
01:54:24.420 what do you mean i shouldn't exercise without eating protein exercising on an empty stomach 1.00
01:54:29.420 for women because it's for women the information is for a woman by a woman so i made it my goal 1.00
01:54:35.580 this year, Emma, to get more protein. And I'm going to tell you something. It's really hard
01:54:40.160 to get a lot of protein. Yeah, I know. And I'm cooking and I'm shaking and I'm smoothing and
01:54:45.060 I'm cottage cheese and I'm egg bites and I'm doing what I can. And I'm always falling short
01:54:49.300 every day. And the bars are melting in my purse and I got to refrigerate it so I can't take it
01:54:53.560 on the go. And so I started calling doctors and saying, what do you do? I started asking other
01:54:59.680 people in the space, what do you recommend? And I bumped into these people that were working on
01:55:04.840 this shot and I got so excited about it. And a year ago, I became a co-founder behind the scenes
01:55:09.980 of this brand new company called Pure Genius that was working on a clinical grade protein shot that
01:55:15.560 is the viscosity of water. You can pour this in a margarita. You can pour this in iced tea. You can
01:55:20.560 chug this. You can put this in your kid's lunchbox. When my dad was having brain surgery and we
01:55:25.140 couldn't keep him nourished, he could have taken this. We have a doctor who has gotten on board
01:55:31.280 who told us that sucralose is counteracting to chemotherapy. It's one of the worst things that
01:55:39.020 you can eat if you're a cancer patient. Is that true? It is true. And so she cited all the research
01:55:46.340 on it. So I've been to the labs. I've been working with the scientists. We have driven the formulation.
01:55:53.180 Our scientific board has signed off on this. They cannot wait to start recommending this to people
01:55:58.640 because we're taking protein out of the gym and into your life and into your golf bag and your
01:56:03.540 backpack and the lunchboxes. It's simple and it fits into a busy person's life. That's pure genius.
01:56:09.380 Mel Robbins is going to hell. I'm sorry. I looked it up and it's like the pure genius shot, 0.93
01:56:13.960 according to this, has about 32 grams of protein. Depending on how much protein intake,
01:56:21.960 if you're trying to do a healthy whatever, mine is 92 grams of protein. That would be a lot of
01:56:28.240 bottles and you shouldn't also be getting that much protein primarily from drinking a like a
01:56:34.100 thing like this it needs to be through eating food that give you other nutrients because you
01:56:38.600 need some calories i i understand everyone right now is trying to get healthy getting protein is
01:56:43.880 good for you but there is just such this way in in which people promote disordered eating through
01:56:49.640 like trying to like make it like a one easy fix it thing it's like it's okay to have a protein shot
01:56:55.240 like it's okay to have a smoothie but like you need other things like if it had caffeine maybe
01:56:59.200 that would be more interesting like it has to give you something else it's just ah i don't like it
01:57:03.020 it's it's also can i just say like first of all this protein craze is ridiculous if you aren't
01:57:09.120 a weightlifter you don't need all of the protein that like first of all i think so much of this
01:57:16.180 is led by rfk jr yes and the sort of like vibes that have emanated off of him and into the rest
01:57:22.300 of america that like we all need to be having like more meat more protein you know like they've
01:57:27.060 literally like reshaped i don't know whatever like michelle obama's like my plate thing was around
01:57:31.140 this i feel like every administration reshapes the food nutrition guidelines whatever but average
01:57:36.260 people don't need i was like looking it up most americans get enough protein you don't need to buy
01:57:43.380 like every new protein snack that hits the thing that's like costs four or five six dollars a pop
01:57:49.600 but everything that mel robbins does that makes a gazillion dollars she's like i just i had a need
01:57:55.900 i had a problem it organically came up it fell into my lap my daughter said let them i would
01:58:00.780 needed more protein so i called the doctor no you didn't this is a trendy thing in trendy upscale
01:58:07.540 supermarkets right now and you wanted to get into it you wanted your piece of the pie you reached
01:58:12.800 out to people who you heard were were developing a product that you thought would be profitable
01:58:17.640 and you put your name on it oh my god just like stop scamming and don't you have enough money
01:58:22.960 she has one of the most listened to podcasts in the country she sold 10 million copies of
01:58:28.280 this book not to mention the other three books it is literally like biblical greed no seriously
01:58:34.820 if you've sold 10 million books right that is so much money and like i can't help but notice
01:58:43.100 she's putting all of these buzzwords in here about like cancer and like health conditions and it's
01:58:49.920 like you're starting to sound rfk jr absolutely dr oz another member of the trump administration
01:58:56.540 who hawks supplements like you're starting to sound like all of these people and you're starting
01:59:01.580 to get into and again like this is no surprise because she does this all the time but it's so
01:59:05.740 insidious you are preying on people's personal tragedies and vulnerabilities and you're positioning
01:59:12.660 it as like expert and doctor informed. I hope there's not a doctor out there who's prescribing
01:59:19.080 patients the Mel Robbins pure genius protein shot. I just can't take it. Exactly. If you look
01:59:28.320 in the comments on this Facebook video, her top commenters like her biggest fans are literally
01:59:34.020 saying I showed this to my doctor. This person says took this to my doctor's appointment and
01:59:40.000 she was shocked at the good stuff it has in it and is going to start recommending it to her
01:59:43.840 patients no no no no that's so that makes me so uncomfortable like it's so unfair because we live 0.90
01:59:52.620 in such a fucked up system that it's like i get it i get people being nervous being scared wanting 0.88
01:59:59.280 to find some way to like get some care and that's what makes it so nefarious because it's taking 0.96
02:00:05.600 advantage of that because it is true like so many things like especially when it comes to protein
02:00:09.300 stuff a lot of it isn't based around what women's needs are people in different kind of body 0.83
02:00:13.500 spectrums like we do need more diversity in that regard but she is just doing it in the most 1.00
02:00:18.200 grifty way possible pretty recently the pure genius protein shot got into target stores around
02:00:25.600 the country and so mel robbins did a photo shoot in front of a target holding up the pure genius
02:00:32.980 protein shot we don't have to stay here for long i just i saw this photo and i couldn't not mention
02:00:38.220 it are you guys seeing the outline i'm gonna throw it up yeah yeah she is holding this protein shot
02:00:45.540 in front of her standing in front of the target logo looking at the protein shot like it is like
02:00:52.280 a bottle of like youth elixir from god yeah the substance itself
02:00:57.560 we've come so far from like i have no credentials i'm just helping people overcome things in their
02:01:06.680 life through what i've learned to like drink my elixir of life and her pose is hilarious because 0.95
02:01:15.060 you would think that she just was like she was giving you some good shit okay well do you know
02:01:20.280 what this pose reminds me of and this is really why i wanted to include the photo in the in the 0.93
02:01:24.140 podcast is because have you ever seen the video of charlie xcx you know what i'm gonna say yes
02:01:31.340 Where a fan at a meet and greet handed her a bottle of Rush Poppers and asked her to sign it and then hold it up and say gay rights.
02:01:39.020 Gay rights! 0.63
02:01:40.240 Not only is this the exact pose that Charlie held up the Poppers bottle with, but the bottle itself of the Pure Genius protein shot does look a little like Poppers. 1.00
02:01:51.420 Mm-hmm.
02:01:51.900 the last thing I have to say about these protein shakes is there's like a tweet that's going around
02:01:58.460 that's like y'all are eating all of this fake protein that has like 100 calories zero sugar
02:02:03.280 like it smelled crazy in there oh and I'm like yeah this would make really unfortunate things
02:02:11.600 happen to my tummy if I drank one of these yeah the poops are diabolical because they don't get
02:02:16.980 no fiber. The final pillar of Mel Robbins' grift. And my friends, I know that we have been here for 0.96
02:02:23.840 a very long time. I appreciate you for sticking with us. But of course, I could not let you go
02:02:29.920 without talking about how Mel Robbins has gotten into, yes, of course, you guessed it, AI. In early
02:02:38.820 May 2026, Mel Robbins spoke at the SAS Innovate Conference. SAS is a private, this is according
02:02:49.160 to the Wikipedia page, a private multinational developer of analytics and artificial intelligence
02:02:55.060 software. It is one of the largest privately held software providers in the world. And the SAS
02:03:01.580 Innovate Conference is an annual conference held for basically for AI business leaders at this
02:03:08.100 point because it's just all about AI now. In a write-up about Mel Robbins' speech at this
02:03:12.620 conference for BNT.com, Melania Watson writes,
02:03:16.560 Best known for her 5-4-3-2-1 method, often referred to as the five-second rule,
02:03:23.300 Robin argued that the same mental tool used to overcome procrastination
02:03:27.560 is what can help marketers push past fear when it comes to implementing AI. Of course she would.
02:03:33.080 The problem isn't that you don't know what to do, Robbins told the crowd,
02:03:36.560 is that you're thinking about it instead of acting on it if you think about something for
02:03:42.260 more than five seconds your brain will talk you out of it she said whether it's adopting ai having
02:03:47.400 a hard conversation or making a bold decision there is always going to be an excuse not to
02:03:52.600 do something robbins discussed the human mindset arguing that quote resistance to ai is rooted in
02:03:58.580 the brain's natural tendency to avoid difficult or unfamiliar tasks your brain is wired to conserve
02:04:04.720 energy she said it will always default to what's easy that's why you avoid the thing that could
02:04:10.320 actually move your business forward for marketers she said that often shows up as delaying ai
02:04:16.100 adoption in favor of safe or familiar workflows in order to change you have to understand your
02:04:21.100 brain will resist it robin's advice to the room was to quote stop waiting for certainty
02:04:26.680 people only change when they're forced to or when they choose to so the question is are you
02:04:33.280 going to wait or are you going to decide this is so dystopian so this is the end result of mel
02:04:41.720 robbins's theories and life advice having absolutely zero attachment to reality she's
02:04:48.080 saying everything that i say can apply to everything and therefore the reason people
02:04:54.300 are hesitant about putting their workflows into ai is because they're scared to act and scared
02:05:02.920 to make bold decisions. Count down from five and just jump, honey.
02:05:08.940 I feel like this says a lot about where the AI industry is right now as well,
02:05:14.700 because similarly to how they pulled in Mel Robbins to tell people like, don't leave your
02:05:18.960 MLM, like just keep going harder. It's like back in 2023, when all of these AI companies were
02:05:25.400 launching for the first time, it was like people can't adopt AI fast enough. Like people, AI is
02:05:31.940 so amazing that you're going to love it. It's not even a question. And now the rhetoric has
02:05:36.380 turned into like, stop thinking about the consequences of AI or your fears around AI 0.99
02:05:41.260 because of all of the shit we've seen happen over the past three years. And just do it. 0.98
02:05:45.940 That to me shows that the AI industry is now like, it needs someone like Mel Robbins to come
02:05:52.360 in and be like, do not think about the consequences of your actions at all. Just go, go, go.
02:05:57.540 And the AI industry is paying her. This speech is written by those people. Yes, maybe in collaboration with her team or whatever to put it in her voice. But they're paying her to say this. Exactly. Follow the money.
02:06:10.280 And it's so passive, all of it, that you could put anything. It's like, you could say resistance to colonialism is rooted in the brain's natural tendency to avoid difficult or unfamiliar tasks. Like, you could say that about anything. Like, it just is a passive, mindless way of talking about a real economic and humanitarian climate crisis. It's so divorced.
02:06:34.000 But I also think she feels this way because AI would develop 17 prompts for her, allegedly, and she could just make a book off of any of those because it's the same sort of circular self-reinforcing rhetoric that AI does is so similar to what she does.
02:06:50.200 It's like you are promoting something that would take your job away in a heartbeat because you're so convinced that you're so exceptional that you could never be touched by this change happening.
02:07:00.720 It's ridiculous.
02:07:01.380 I know I've made this point multiple times now but like Mel Robbins like she would take money 1.00
02:07:07.220 from the tobacco industry oh yeah she would take money from anyone she does take money from anyone 1.00
02:07:13.380 including uh we could further into the depths of the AI industry and actually looping back up to 0.95
02:07:19.720 my intro of this episode a few days after her SAS speaking appearance which she no doubt was paid
02:07:26.060 six figures for mel robbins uploaded a video to instagram which was a paid sponsorship she had
02:07:33.780 with microsoft co-pilot which if you don't know is microsoft's consumer ai bot i'm gonna just play
02:07:40.420 the video have you guys seen the video i have not so i'm ready to be upset
02:07:44.320 we need to talk about this harvard study and the shocking statistic that up to 40 percent less
02:07:53.940 women are adopting AI at the rate that men are. Women, especially if you're my age, I'm 57 years
02:08:00.920 old, you cannot be left behind. When it comes to using technology that is shaping the way that work 1.00
02:08:07.080 is evolving and that your life can get better, oh my God, you have to lean in. And since I've
02:08:11.060 been talking about it on the podcast, I can't believe how many of you are trying AI and what
02:08:15.740 you're saying. There are no stupid questions. Now I have a personal assistant. I finally feel 0.99
02:08:20.940 capable. And look, maybe you feel like Patricia. AI technology makes me uneasy, but the thought
02:08:26.620 of being left behind frightens me even more. It's my responsibility to take initiative and adapt to
02:08:32.700 this new landscape. Exactly. I love that attitude. And I want to make it so easy for you to start.
02:08:39.180 So I'm giving you two specific ways you can use AI right now to save time and money. And all you do
02:08:45.300 is you go to co-pilot and you paste these exact prompts in before we start talking about what she
02:08:51.280 has just said i want to read you the prompt that she put in her comments for people to copy and
02:08:57.820 paste into microsoft co-pilot she writes copy and paste or upload a screenshot of this prompt
02:09:04.840 to take control of your money quote i feel overwhelmed behind or ashamed about my money
02:09:11.820 And I want help understanding what's actually going on without judgment.
02:09:16.240 Go slowly and guide me one step at a time.
02:09:19.180 Don't give me everything at once.
02:09:21.100 After each step, stop and wait for my response before continuing.
02:09:24.900 I'll share documents like bank statements, debt statements, bills, and income info when you ask.
02:09:32.640 If I'm not sure what to upload, start by telling me the three most helpful documents to share first.
02:09:38.720 Ask one question at a time.
02:09:41.820 she goes on so essentially she was just like upload all of your bank statements
02:09:46.780 into microsoft co-pilot and also the entire script for this video and the entire concept
02:09:52.760 for this video is of course approved by microsoft including the whole like women are gonna get left 1.00
02:09:58.680 behind shtick which is fucking bullshit this just happened like within the past months that she 1.00
02:10:05.940 is like doing this and telling people to upload their financial documents and just a few months 0.99
02:10:10.400 before this BBC article, Microsoft error sees confidential emails exposed to AI tool co-pilot.
02:10:19.160 There's been like a number of security breaches with regards to these AI tools, including
02:10:25.180 Microsoft's own AI tools, where like people's sensitive and confidential information is being
02:10:30.060 leaked, being phished, like being stolen. So it's just like on a very basic level,
02:10:35.780 it's not smart to upload anything super sensitive to an AI. A lot of them have been shown to have
02:10:41.400 these security vulnerabilities. The other part of this that really pisses me off is a lot of people
02:10:46.860 with financial struggles are not struggling because they don't necessarily understand what's
02:10:51.940 happening. There's a financial literacy component to it, but the biggest issue is that people just
02:10:58.380 aren't making enough money. Their wages are not rising with the cost of inflation or increased
02:11:04.860 costs of living. They do not have opportunities to make more money. They do not have upward
02:11:08.960 mobility at their jobs. And AI can't help you with any of that, nor can most of these financial
02:11:15.740 coaches in the same vein as Mel Robbins. So it's just like AI is the ultimate logical conclusion
02:11:23.160 of just years and years of nonsense that doesn't actually help anyone. It's just an automated
02:11:29.400 version of that. I also find it so funny how she's framing this around women getting left
02:11:34.560 behind and to me that's especially funny because to get a little gamer nerdy the new head of xbox
02:11:42.100 which is owned by microsoft is a woman i believe her name is asha sharma and one of the big things
02:11:48.600 that she did was say that she was not going to develop any more of the co-pilot for gaming
02:11:56.020 because the xbox audience was so against the idea of having ai slop in their games so even a company 0.54
02:12:04.240 that is owned by microsoft has a female president who as out of response for the gaming industry the 0.96
02:12:13.100 fans everything was like okay people aren't interested in this kind of stuff for council 0.93
02:12:17.320 we're not developing co-pilot for for consoles so if a woman in power who works for microsoft
02:12:23.740 can do that what is mel robin's excuse right the caption of this post is you know what's scarier
02:12:30.720 than trying something you've never done before,
02:12:33.100 not trying at all and being left behind.
02:12:36.060 If you're avoiding AI because it feels intimidating,
02:12:39.360 here's the truth.
02:12:40.460 You don't need to be tech savvy.
02:12:42.080 You don't need to ask perfect questions.
02:12:44.140 You don't need to understand everything.
02:12:46.520 You don't need to understand everything.
02:12:48.440 Well, you should probably understand some things.
02:12:50.080 You just need to, in all caps, start.
02:12:55.000 Personally, at the age of 57, 0.99
02:12:57.120 I still don't have enough fucking money, 1.00
02:12:59.020 so I need to do this fuck-ass sponsorship. 0.99
02:13:00.900 Sorry, that's not what she wrote. 0.99
02:13:01.960 Personally, at the age of 57,
02:13:04.100 I don't want to get left behind
02:13:05.620 when it comes to learning new technology.
02:13:08.240 And I refuse to let fear about AI
02:13:10.640 have me opt out of something
02:13:12.340 that will be a massive part of all of our lives,
02:13:14.720 whether you like it or not.
02:13:16.760 That's why I have partnered with Microsoft Copilot
02:13:19.620 and not because of how much money they're paying me.
02:13:21.720 Because I have made a decision
02:13:23.440 to learn as much as I can about AI
02:13:25.680 and help other women do the same. 1.00
02:13:28.280 you know who this sounds a lot like who that one video from Reese Witherspoon where she literally
02:13:33.420 said yeah where she literally said this exact thing and what I need all of you to know which
02:13:38.860 I'm sure you probably do know intuitively but if you don't know how influencer partnerships work
02:13:43.140 these captions if they are not written by the companies they are approved by the companies
02:13:49.100 you can't just put whatever caption you want so this is this entire framework this entire thing
02:13:54.560 of like you're all going to get left behind that is a marketing strategy of the companies making
02:14:01.100 money off of this exactly yep and i think a lot of these ai companies specifically want to market 0.69
02:14:07.640 to women because women drive a lot of consumer trends that turn companies from blips into like
02:14:14.260 actual like mainstays and women are not as enthusiastic about ai as men and the reality
02:14:21.840 is like women are right to not be as enthusiastic about ai as men yes when when grok image generation
02:14:29.060 was introduced to twitter i believe it was like between 40 and half of all of the images that
02:14:36.600 were generated were of nude women were taking women's faces and putting them on naked bodies
02:14:42.300 undressing women including thousands of images of girls children but i don't know i'm sure people
02:14:50.080 are hesitant i'm sure women are hesitant to use ai not because of any of that but because
02:14:54.780 what does mel write because they're afraid of asking perfect questions what does that even
02:15:00.380 what's going on what's going on what are we doing doing it's so patronizing and you know i try not to
02:15:11.220 have more smoke for women who do this kind of stuff but at the end of the day i do because we 0.63
02:15:16.440 have so much more information about how women are being negatively impacted by so much happening in
02:15:21.920 this political moment in this government and in this climate and how ai is going to exacerbate
02:15:26.580 that and she's just kind of like but are you just scared yeah i'm scared girl because the planet
02:15:32.180 it's gonna explode i live here i'm scared because i don't have a house like yours and i don't know
02:15:39.700 how i'm gonna be able to ever afford one like it's like at the end of the day like mel robbins
02:15:45.100 has built this audience of women
02:15:47.320 from what it seems like 0.99
02:15:48.440 from looking at her comment sections. 1.00
02:15:49.720 Like it's a lot of older women 0.56
02:15:51.640 who really have put a lot of trust
02:15:53.700 and faith into her.
02:15:55.420 And she she has always been
02:15:57.500 selling them something
02:15:58.220 that I don't think is like
02:15:59.160 really that helpful.
02:16:00.260 But you'll all allow that.
02:16:02.120 I'm sure a lot of people
02:16:02.740 have read these books
02:16:03.580 and feel like they have helped them.
02:16:05.140 And that's not nothing.
02:16:06.320 But at this stage,
02:16:07.500 she's just crossed over
02:16:08.760 fully into grift territory
02:16:10.860 to the point where now
02:16:11.920 she's selling things
02:16:12.660 that are absolutely harmful 1.00
02:16:14.480 to these women, but they still trust her. And that is like super insidious. And that is sad.
02:16:20.340 That's right. That's right. And it's like Mel Robbins, she's very happy to hawk products like
02:16:28.640 this, like AI, that will make your life worse. That, as you said, will exacerbate, among other
02:16:34.020 things, financial strife for the vast majority of people. Look at the way it's destroying the job
02:16:39.920 economy. And Mel Robbins is fine with that, not only because she's personally made hers and doesn't 0.57
02:16:47.240 care. And, you know, in this creation of the permanent underclass, she's not part of it.
02:16:52.260 But also because the more disillusioned you feel about your place in the world,
02:16:58.900 the more you'll continue to turn to Mel Robbins. Yeah, she can help perpetuate the problem.
02:17:05.720 and then she can keep selling you bad advice she makes money on both ends of that equation 1.00
02:17:12.340 so true it's so gross that's kind of all i had
02:17:17.140 i think that puts a perfect cap on it there's never really a good time to make this episode
02:17:24.280 because i don't know probably like within the next month she'll like put out some other 1.00
02:17:28.160 shitty i don't know what's like a grift she hasn't touched yet no those full body scans
02:17:32.500 that celebrities are hawking now where they're like find out any cancer or disease that you have 1.00
02:17:37.100 i could see her she's gonna have one of those use code mel for a 50 off oh she'll probably team up 1.00
02:17:43.560 with chloe kardashian not chloe kourtney kardashian for like those lemmy pills that she does 0.98
02:17:49.560 i could see a mel robbins lemmy collaboration honestly mel robbins x push oh yeah oh my god
02:17:59.420 i forgot about yes let them push that's what'd be oh yes
02:18:03.700 princess and cat where can i let people find your work elsewhere
02:18:13.780 uh you can let me tell you uh i'm mostly here on youtube.com and i do videos all about pop
02:18:27.220 culture and feminism and queerness talked about ai stuff on here i'm mostly on here and i am
02:18:33.140 on blue sky where i'm princess m weeks princess with only one s because i misspelled it and
02:18:40.300 sometimes i do uh talk shit on tiktok but i'm just so happy to be here i'm such a huge fan of
02:18:45.880 both of you so this was a total pleasure to get to talk and learn so much about this really 0.89
02:18:50.960 terrible woman likewise and i'm also on blue sky at kat tembard and also spitfirenews.com
02:19:00.560 that's the main place to go thank you both so much for joining me on this journey and thank
02:19:05.060 you dear listener i don't know how long this episode is going to be after we cut it up but
02:19:10.680 i'm i'm so grateful that you have journeyed through the weeds with us i had fun i feel like
02:19:18.160 I broke my brain irreparably, but I had fun. And I love you so much until next time. Don't let them
02:19:25.840 fuck them. 1.00