00:03:41.360to have an independent foreign policy,
00:03:43.340to have a real two-way arms embargo on Israel, which is committing genocide in Gaza,
00:03:48.320and actually address the things that are really on people's minds with very straight talk
00:03:54.520and very clear solutions. And, you know, we came out with the proposal for a public option for
00:04:01.160groceries because Galen Weston is worth $18 billion, and there's a straight line from the
00:04:06.680profit-taking and the collusion among the grocery billionaires and the price of the ridiculous,
00:04:12.520absurd price of things in your basket at the grocery checkout and you know three weeks later
00:04:18.120after we launched the globe and mail devoted its thanksgiving monday lead editorial to explaining
00:04:23.880to canadians and it's in its way in its tone of of of 30 000 foot uh reasonable uh condescension
00:04:33.320that uh this was an absurd idea and wouldn't couldn't possibly work and there are much better
00:04:37.560ways to have competition that were all kind of tweaks to the current system so we you know
00:04:42.280these ideas have actually provoked debate they've they've uh they've stirred a lot of excitement at
00:04:47.320the base and uh i think from a canadian green new deal to public options and housing and cell phones
00:04:53.720and groceries we'll get into more of the details uh i'm sure in our in our conversation it's really
00:04:58.920been the ideas and and and and maybe one other thing that distinguishes our campaign a little
00:05:04.200bit from the others is that i find myself saying regularly it's it's actually not about me yes
00:05:11.560leaders we need leaders and leaders have to lead but if we're talking about the party of workers
00:05:16.360the party of the 99 and we're talking and we're doing decentralized distributed organizing where
00:05:22.120we really we reawaken and re-empower our base it's really about what we can do together none of these
00:05:28.520things from universal health care to even to you know the eight hour day none of them were run one
00:05:33.240by the leaders you know they were won by movements of people acting collectively and surging uh in
00:05:40.040in popular power and that's what we need to win and so de-emphasizing the cult of leadership i
00:05:45.400think is something that is a little different on our campaign yeah it's interesting because a lot
00:05:50.760of that's sort of um against the grain in modern politics if you think about it so much of the
00:05:55.560campaigns that we have seen have really focused on the leaders in a lot of western democracies
00:06:01.560and uh failing democracies as well um but uh before i get on a total tangent with that i i
00:06:08.360did want to hone in a bit more on your ideas and i'm glad you brought up the globe and mail example
00:06:13.400because i want to touch on that sort of response too because obviously you've taken some big swings
00:06:18.280here i think that you actually that's a term you use for it that we're taking big swings oh yeah
00:06:23.320which is very cool to see um as you said you focus a lot on offering public options for groceries
00:06:29.800telecom services home building pharmaceuticals and more you also want to expand health care
00:06:34.600and homelessness impose the national rent cap push for free and reliable transit and that's
00:06:40.120not even close to everything that's on your campaign site it's a lot of exciting sounding
00:06:44.920stuff which means i can already hear the national post op-eds uh just churning out um and i can also
00:06:52.920frankly hear some pushback from the power and politics panels um particularly chantal hibert
00:06:57.880always brings up the uh jurisdictions in our federation right so oh yeah how do you respond
00:07:05.800to those criticisms that some of these big swings are going to kind of trample on the toes of
00:07:11.160provinces of municipalities that sometimes take issue with being trampled on so how do you get
00:07:16.520this down in light of that yeah i mean it's it's a legit concern um and obviously navigating the
00:07:23.400jurisdictions of of of our of our constitutional arrangement is like it's the it's a fundamental
00:07:28.520task for any you know national public policy um and those things are real but also there's
00:07:34.600a tendency of politicians to say the word jurisdiction when they don't want to do something
00:07:39.480and it's something that politicians often hide behind look how do we have universal single-payer
00:07:45.080health care in canada when health care is a provincial responsibility and ontario and alberta
00:07:51.480under doug ford and danielle smith are privatizing health care and do not want universal single-payer
00:07:57.000health care we have it because the federal government has the power of the purse and it has
00:08:01.880the ability to fund um as a national government these these big big uh structures in our in our
00:08:09.480public landscape and so that's how the federal government gets all kinds of things done yes of
00:08:15.000course it's a negotiation but it is possible for the federal government to lead and the only
00:08:19.880expansion that we've seen for instance to our health care system in a generation the introduction
00:08:24.520of pharma care within our single-payer health care system for birth control drugs and diabetes
00:08:29.960drugs and medical devices was won by the last ndp caucus under jug meat and the and the crew
00:08:36.760and extracted from the liberal majority and has been implemented in a number of provinces
00:08:40.920and had they moved faster could have been implemented in every province across the country
00:08:45.560by negotiating with the provinces and offering an expansion of uh of a dignified life for all
00:08:51.800and you know that's a political question uh of how the federal government can build support
00:08:56.040for these policies and make them incredibly popular when they explain them and communicate
00:09:00.120them clearly and passionately it's also a matter of the technology and the technocracy of like
00:09:05.560getting it done and you know all the all the great policy weeds that the nerds love to delve into
00:09:10.280but it's it's possible and in a time when people are working harder and harder and harder and
00:09:19.080wages never keep up and prices never stop escalating and it just doesn't seem to matter0.79
00:09:25.320how hard you throw down our deal as Canadians is getting shittier and shittier and everybody knows1.00
00:09:32.000it and so we need we need big solutions at this point because life has gotten so bad despite how
00:09:38.900hard everyone's working um so i think there's like a moral imperative too for someone in the
00:09:43.460political space to lead with solutions that are as big as the crises we face and a leadership
00:09:48.500campaign is a great idea to throw those things out there yeah and you know i think that one thing
00:09:55.220i'm always struck by is how whenever you speak about these big ideas whether it be you or anyone
00:10:00.900really like if i'm just sitting with friends having dinner or something and we start talking
00:10:04.820about these things the immediate response and i don't know if this is a canadian thing or a human
00:10:09.940thing is this degree of cynicism and um i'm sorry my dog is uh getting involved in our interview
00:10:18.740here you want me to bring my dog and they can oh yeah it's like this is my jurisdiction this is my
00:10:24.180i think they're both girls too so uh you know a little uh yeah we got the girl power in the
00:10:29.860the background here so i know i creeped you hardcore like i was researching last night
00:10:34.700yeah i know the gender of your dog that's how deep we're going i got these old much music
00:10:41.220pictures that i found on youtube videos outside the rex hotel on queens because that the order
00:10:48.900of canada recipient nardware the human serviette is still working you know i was hoping i would
00:10:54.420get a nardware comparison with this one that's what i was aiming for so we can wrap it up now
00:10:59.920yeah but on this very happy note let's keep talking about cynicism because
00:11:05.120because that is the thing that i um feel like these ideas always come up against and
00:11:11.300the cynic the cynic in me is thinking well maybe that's because these ideas once implemented are
00:11:16.440so incredibly popular that you can't beat them once they're in place so you gotta destroy the
00:11:21.260idea initially. Wow, that is so true. Like healthcare is the perfect example of that.
00:11:26.100Well, exactly. Yeah. They're having to, you know, systematically defund it and, you know,
00:11:30.840break it so that they can privatize it. But yeah, but I did want to ask you, I mean,
00:11:36.140it sometimes does feel like in the Canadian information ecosystem, there's almost a race
00:11:42.940to see who can express the most cynicism first, whether it be in columns or in the punditry on
00:11:48.340media um you know assuming you agree with that premise that i just laid out i'm curious how we
00:11:54.340break that cycle so that we can genuinely start having these conversations instead of just debating
00:11:58.660whether they're even possible as ideas i mean some of this is is structural in our democracy
00:12:04.740and some of this is cultural in our in our 21st century you know weird world that we live in but
00:12:13.300But if you like, you know, we live in a country where a political party can get 36 percent of the popular vote and have a majority government with almost complete power with few checks and balances.
00:12:23.860And so obviously people that first past the post system, I think, is really it's really polluted our own feeling about our franchise, about our about our democratic participation in elections.
00:12:35.440People in Canada, we have a phrase in Canada. I held my nose and voted for X or Y candidate. Right.
00:12:41.500I mean, this is toxic. It means that people feel shameful about their vote. They feel ambivalent about it. They feel that it's pointless because they can't vote their conscience for a party they agree with without fearing that that will contribute to the worst thing happening. So people vote defensively. This increases cynicism. And the need for proportional representation is so fundamental because we're starting to lose our faith in democracy in Canada.
00:13:07.480We're also living in a time where faith in institutions in general is crumbling.
00:13:11.900We see in the United States that this administration has taken a wrecking ball to entire arms of government and is reconfiguring the world order.
00:13:21.840So that makes people feel that only bad things can happen.
00:13:24.860But I do think that people clearly understand that big things can happen because big things happen every day when we open our eyes and look at our devices for the first time.
00:13:36.200there's some other huge thing and they're awful things that are generally happening in the world
00:13:40.740today but big good things can happen too and i think that that that restoring that faith
00:13:46.260um is the work of politics and proposing exciting ideas that would actually solve problems that
00:13:51.000people get feel hopeful and and and feel empowered about is a crucial part of meeting that cynicism
00:13:57.600and the cultural part i don't know i mean i worked in mainstream media for a really long time
00:14:02.600I understand why it's easier to always be jabbing and skeptical.
00:14:10.780And it's easier than putting yourself out there, being vulnerable as a mainstream journalist
00:14:16.040and actually expressing curiosity or maybe even hope in something, in things getting better.
00:23:49.500So one thing that I was glad you mentioned
00:23:54.280was the provinces and the provincial NDP.
00:23:58.600I mean, in the context of your grandpa,
00:24:02.000But also, more generally, I mean, that is something that, as I mentioned earlier, the first barb was kind of thrown, which was a thrilling moment within the NDP to see a barb thrown.
00:24:21.820But I did want to actually get your response to that because, you know, obviously, Rob Ashton came out and he accused you of dividing the party.
00:24:30.500And, you know, there are a lot of disagreements between the federal NDP and certain provincial NDPs.
00:24:39.460I mean, NBC, you've got David Eby embracing the LNG sort of industry.
00:24:44.880You've got, you know, obviously Rachel Notley had a very prominent public schism with the federal NDP as well.
00:24:52.620Do you feel as though, first of all, these are the same party still?
00:24:57.800do they stand for the values that you feel should embody the NDP? And how do you respond to
00:25:03.660criticism of potential divisions that you may be sowing within the NDP? Well, yeah, I mean,
00:25:11.100absolutely, we are the same party. And we're the only party where the provincial and federal
00:25:17.580wings are federated. And I think that's fantastic. And navigating our disagreements is something that
00:25:22.800we've been doing since our inception in 1961. It's not just the federal party and the provincial
00:25:27.520parties it's a gigantic country with stark regional differences and different industries
00:25:32.400anchored in different geographies that have very different priorities like right now we're just
00:25:37.760talking about the canola and and pork tariffs from china that really affect a province like
00:25:43.360manitoba with an ndp government versus the ev you know tariffs um that really affect the auto
00:25:50.160industry uh mostly in ontario and quebec and um and don't forget that rachel notley wasn't just
00:25:56.080you know having friction with the federal party rachel notley took bc wines off the shelf
00:26:00.960when she was in a in a pitch battle with john horgan uh another ndp provincial premier so
00:26:07.360these things are not new um they're they're a feature of having a federal and provincial uh
00:26:12.240integrated party with all of the differences that we have and look it's a democratic party it's like
00:26:18.000in our name and respectful disagreements have always been allowed and what you do when you
00:26:23.600want to navigate that is you pick up the phone um and so you know i've had a really productive and
00:26:29.920and collegial contact with nahed nenshi in alberta who i had a great call with last week and with
00:26:34.560wob canoe and in manitoba um talking about all of these issues with the premier's office here
00:26:40.080in british columbia and i think it's critical for the federal party to come back as as climate as a
00:26:47.920true party of climate action and i think there's a huge progressive majority in canada that believes
00:26:53.520we must get off fossil fuels without throwing workers under the bus and the ndp is the only
00:26:58.480party you could actually trust to do that in an industry that can make 40 billion dollars in one
00:27:03.680year as the oil industry did a few years ago there is plenty of money and no government is actually
00:27:09.920making them pay to clean up their mess which would provide decades of of employment unionized
00:27:15.280employment in the oil patch alone let alone get off fossil fuels in a way that actually protects
00:27:20.400workers so we can have these disagreements we have them respectfully and we celebrate each
00:27:25.760other's successes when i was talking to to to nahid nenshi i was like thank you for standing
00:27:31.360up for trans kids in alberta thank you for standing up for teachers in alberta please0.99
00:27:36.320defeat danielle smith she's the most extreme premier i think canada has ever seen she is
00:27:42.240stoking a separation movement um she is empowering the most regressive forces in society0.80
00:27:49.120um and she is like she's totally unleashed like american style culture war nastiness in the in
00:27:58.860the canadian political space we need the mdp in alberta to get elected just tell me how i can
00:28:04.100help and um and we can navigate our differences and and and nahed was very very clear about that
00:28:11.840you know we'll keep in touch uh you know let's uh maybe during elections not everybody has to
00:28:19.840hammer away on this the same issues that they always do there there are lots of ways to to
00:28:25.680navigate it and ndp provincial and federal wings have done it for decades um and i think it's
00:28:31.840well understood but it really has to do with relationships it has to do with celebrating
00:28:35.920each other's successes and agreeing to disagree respectfully on individual issues when those
00:28:40.960things come up and i mean gourd johns uh our great mp on vancouver island uh just wrote a statement
00:28:46.640yesterday expressing his profound disappointment in the bc ndp government's uh retreat on
00:28:51.920decriminalization of drugs and he laid out a very powerful evidence-based case for harm reduction
00:28:58.240for for for a science-based approach a health-based approach that is at odds with the provincial uh
00:29:04.160ndp government you know where he lives and where he represents an overlapping constituency these
00:29:09.680are vital to have democratic debates within the ndp family and we're the only party that can do it
00:29:14.960um so i celebrate it um and i gave big i gave rob a big hug when i saw him he was a little
00:29:20.560kind of getting nervous but it's like yeah this is this is politics we get it he's a good guy i
00:29:24.480mean mark carney maybe doesn't i don't know if you saw that tidbit in the uh mclean's piece that
00:29:29.440i didn't we didn't want to speak to karina gold after his victory she wanted to congratulate him
00:29:34.800yeah anyway but i mean it's not so it's not all a club like we don't hug people who are trying to
00:29:42.280harm people in our society like i do think there are lines that you don't cross but like between
00:29:46.960me and rob ashton there's a hug it's not but not with danielle smith maybe no no yeah no um so i
00:29:55.320want to turn to audience questions in a minute here um so i'll give them a second to uh set those
00:30:01.900but i did have one last thing i wanted to throw at you just because i feel like it's the kind of
00:30:06.540criticism i've seen it floated around and you can argue whether it's fair or not but i want to give
00:30:11.980you the opportunity to address it because the reality is is that in recent years there's been
00:30:18.220a ton of discourse about the nepo baby and you know you come from a bit of a canadian dynasty
00:30:25.420i can imagine that is a bit of a different upbringing to the average canadian your grandpa
00:30:31.180as one of the key architects of the NDP. Your dad was a long time Ontario NDP leader and the Canadian
00:30:37.100ambassador to the UN. Your mom is a famous iconic journalist. Multiple generations of your family
00:30:43.340have blue links on Wikipedia. So I guess I wanted to ask you, I mean, what's your response to
00:30:51.020Canadians who might be hesitant to trust that you truly understand the working class experience and
00:30:57.260can really address those issues given your background what's your response to that
00:31:02.620yeah i mean fair fair right like you don't you don't choose your parents you don't know what
00:31:07.260you get to choose is you get to choose what i thought you did pick them you picked very well
00:31:15.980questionnaire i would have been like oh could i have these two um i love my folks and that and
00:31:21.180and their their legacy is one of of struggle and resistance and fighting the power um that's what
00:31:29.100that's my inheritance my grandpa came to canada as a political refugee essentially from from uh
00:31:35.260from the bolsheviks uh because he was part of a tradition his father my great-grandfather was a
00:31:40.860was a bundest leader a jewish socialist movement that was democratic socialist and the revolutionary
00:31:46.140socialists um wow you're quick with these things hey you got everything right at hand i tried to
00:31:50.540prep you know you're so up to the digital speed rachel it's amazing yeah and so they came here
00:31:56.460basically fleeing the red army the russian red army and and they came with nothing they arrived
00:32:02.460in montreal and you know they were they were left-wing organizers um i don't feel like i come
00:32:09.340from the elites i don't know what to say about that i mean you know ben mulroney and i are very0.83
00:32:14.700different kinds of Nepo babies but I really do I think it's what it's what1.00
00:32:20.800you do with what you've been given and I've spent my career as an activist1.00
00:32:25.160journalist traveling the world and writing love letters to social movements
00:32:31.060in the form of documentaries and and TV programs and and connecting with people
00:32:36.400who are really struggling I you know I saw this there was this video on
00:32:39.800Instagram that that that blew up the other day about community wealth
00:32:43.380building in scotland they're building they're they're passing a law the national government to
00:32:47.860require local governments to prioritize um job staying in communities to prioritize worker
00:32:53.380cooperatives and worker ownership and community wealth building which is a an important a really
00:32:57.940important progressive policy frame that i did a story on you know like uh 10 year 15 years ago
00:33:05.220so i went and looked it up and i i did this documentary for uh al jazeera english fault
00:33:09.780the program that I helped to start but still on the air today doing incredible work and we went
00:33:14.180to Cleveland and we we we told the story of this Hugo Boss factory a profitable factory that they0.95
00:33:20.340were closing down to save us you know because the company is owned by a fucking hedge fund right and0.84
00:33:26.340they're squeezing and they're squeezing and they just close this factory in Cleveland where people0.97
00:33:30.180have been working for 30 years and we went home with people and we talked about that and across
00:33:34.500town there's this community wealth building initiative that is building worker co-ops
00:33:39.300in a black neighborhood that has been devastated by disinvestment over time but there are hospitals
00:33:45.460and universities in a cluster in the middle of it and there's this project to create worker
00:33:50.100cooperatives based on the procurement of these big public institutions so you have these people
00:33:54.580running cooperative laundries and home renovation and retrofitting for energy efficiency and all
00:34:01.940these worker-owned businesses that are connecting to these big public institutions that require
00:34:07.380billions of dollars of local supplies every year and you know we contrasted these two working
00:34:12.580class experiences in cleveland this is the kind of work that i've been doing um for the last 30 35
00:34:17.300years so regardless of how awesome uh it is that i get to go home and talk to my mom uh about you
00:34:24.660know about the fundamental struggle for gender equality on planet earth being for me the underlying
00:34:31.460moral landscape of of of justice you know that's to me that's the original struggle um in the way
00:34:38.900that i was brought up i'm i'm very grateful for that stuff and uh and people are going to judge
00:34:44.500me i hope based on the kind of politics we do the kind of power that we can build behind that behind
00:34:50.340the kind of vision that would actually excite people enliven the progressive movement in canada
00:34:56.340and win back some of the ground that we've lost great well avi i know you have a hard out in a
00:35:02.020couple minutes here so i want to pivot to some audience questions because i got a bit greedy
00:35:06.260with uh my time there um so i i do also want to make sure i give you the opportunity to tell people
00:35:12.580where they can keep up with you so let me just give you a second to do that right now because
00:35:16.500i'm sure after listening to you for the last 40 minutes some people might want to follow um so
00:35:22.260could you tell them how to do that well uh folks i'll give you a chance to leave some questions in
00:35:26.020the chat to you now if you'd like and abhi wonderful go for it tell them where to keep up with
00:35:30.180you i mean thank you for the psa at the beginning rachel january 28th is the is the biggest deadline
00:35:35.780of the race apart from the vote itself and you need to be a member of the ndp before january 28th
00:35:42.020um and lots of people have donated in the past or voted in the past and don't understand that
00:35:46.900they might not actually be a member right now so lewisforleader.ca lewis lewis i'm that kind of
00:35:53.300lewis you know uh uh join or just go to the website and click on the join and buy your
00:35:59.300membership uh you buy your membership there uh the price varies depending on the province because
00:36:04.820the provincial ndps set the leadership uh uh the sort of the membership uh uh rules but it's 10
00:36:10.580bucks or it's 25 bucks or if you're underemployed you check the box and it's five bucks you know
00:36:15.860um so uh that's how you do it lewisforleader.ca uh and i think that you know some people have
00:36:24.180complained that you know why do i have to pay i think uh it's a tradition that membership and
00:36:29.460things cost a a minimal amount and i think that small financial commitment to being a member of
00:36:35.940something to have a say in a party's uh internal choices um you know it's the price of entry and
00:36:43.140um uh and i think people have been excited to throw down 10 bucks and and get involved in this
00:36:48.340race and of course beyond just buying a membership and voting in the leadership election we want to
00:36:52.740see people get involved in this campaign um and we've been we've really developed a a really
00:36:58.020thrilling really fun community we've done game shows like the price is rigged where people
00:37:04.580guess the price of groceries that have gone up since 2019 before events we we have a youth for
00:37:09.860Avi contingent out there that is making the most absurd and embarrassing videos to try to make me
00:37:16.820as an old person cringe into uh uh cringe into smoke and like drift away on the wind um which
00:37:24.260almost happened the other night when they gave me this t-shirt anyway it is actually we're building
00:37:28.180some joy and some celebration into doing politics and uh it's been really exciting great okay so
00:37:34.180I've got a super chat question here so we'll take that one first Barry Cook wants to know
00:37:39.300could you work with McPherson if you had to?
00:37:42.580Oh, in a heartbeat. Heather's an amazing MP. She's fantastic. And her leadership on0.99
00:37:48.260Canada's relationship towards Palestine, Palestinian statehood, and speaking out against
00:37:53.460the genocide in Gaza has been really inspiring for all of us. And she's an extremely accomplished MP.
00:38:00.580And yes, it is my goal to work with Heather. I've been trying to work with Heather for the
00:38:05.300last two elections regardless of the leadership so yeah would love to great um i'm i'm gonna ask
00:38:11.540you to maybe rapid fire a few of these if you can sure i'll take an extra yeah let's take a few extra
00:38:16.180minutes yeah are you sure yeah yeah yeah okay okay maybe we'll do eight minutes if that's cool
00:38:20.340yeah for sure and also my dog really wants to come in so can we let smoke into this conversation0.90
00:38:24.660yeah can you not can you just time to bring the smoke come here come here come here silly1.00
00:38:30.180i think she just wants to lie on the bed to be honest but totally fair
00:38:33.300save the people for the rapid fire ground smoke oh hey smoke nice to see you hello
00:38:42.020so the next one i uh want to ask you is uh what is your stance on electoral reform i feel like
00:38:47.540we got a bit of a you know yeah would you say thumbs up thumbs down massive thumbs up absolutely
00:38:52.980necessary representation yes that's where we started our conversation and um but you know
00:38:58.740there's lots of different forms of proportional representation i like some of the mixed member
00:39:02.900proportional because i think you can balance still having local and regional representation
00:39:07.380while still having this the the number of seats in the parliament reflective of the actual support
00:39:12.020for a party in the popular vote um but i i i don't care that much about the specific form
00:39:18.260i'm not that much of a nerd that i would say like we must have this kind or it's not good
00:39:22.340like trudeau no no and rank ballots are not actual electoral reform it's a voting technique that is
00:39:29.700different it's better but it's not the the whole thing no we just need to have a better system than
00:39:35.140first past the post and there are many options yeah i'm surprised he advocated for that one
00:39:39.220because it also uh technically favors slightly people whose names start earlier in the alphabet
00:39:43.700and he's t for trudeau anyway but i think he favored it because he thought it benefited him
00:39:50.500yeah i mean it is proven to benefit it seemed to suggest it was going to prove
00:39:55.140oh yeah the liberals so um i shouldn't say is proven because it's not like we've tried it
00:39:59.380um right yeah avi um thoughts on cija which is the center for israel and jewish affairs a pro-israel
00:40:07.460lobbying group here in canada trying to ban hassan piker from our country yeah dangerous hassan piker
00:40:15.940i mean this is i don't agree with everything hassan piker says or does but like what are we
00:40:21.460doing now we're gonna we want a trumpian immigration policy i mean we're all it's already
00:40:26.420bad enough the changes that carney's making to deport so many people um and and and and enforce
00:40:33.620such cruel rules and bind our system ever more into the united states at the borders um so yeah
00:40:40.580we do not want to be going there and uh i i mean i i initiated a whole report uh critiquing the0.83
00:40:47.380israel lobby in canada its main organization cija because i think they're a very negative force in0.57
00:40:52.100our democracy and uh and i don't think uh anyone should listen to them um on matters of of you
00:40:59.220know smearing people for being anti-semites just because they criticize uh the state of israel
00:41:05.220which is committing genocide and which is an apartheid system so yeah i mean hassan piker is
00:41:10.660coming to the university of british columbia and i look forward to welcoming him there and we could
00:41:16.180maybe have a little chat if he wants to but uh yeah you want to get on that stream of course i
00:41:20.820do what are you talking about don't you of course who doesn't let's go together let's do a joint
00:41:26.100pitch so okay i've got to bring in my editor here my lovely video editor chris who cuts clips for
00:41:33.700me thank you again chris um the ndp has a marketing problem and chris would know because he cuts clips
00:41:39.140and knows what uh what works and what doesn't would avi consider a rebrand for example the
00:41:43.700social democratic party what are your thoughts on that wow i mean i would say the democratic
00:41:48.820socialist party would be more what i would go for but i i have a i have an aversion to trying
00:41:55.220to treat structural problems with branding solutions i'm i was somewhat influenced by a
00:42:00.420book uh some 25 years ago called no logo um but wrote that one i think there's a copy on that
00:42:10.500shelf back there um really i'm surprised i i'm not averse to rebranding i'm not averse to changing
00:42:16.740colors and logos i'm not adverse even to changing names but i think that we get too preoccupied with
00:42:21.780surfaces in canadian politics so it might not be the first thing i'd like want to do i think
00:42:26.660our party has some re-democratizing to do re-empowering the base of the party uh transforming
00:42:32.980our vetting system uh for candidates um and and having our you know various democratic structures
00:42:40.340within the party our federal council and our conventions and stuff like that work more
00:42:44.180inclusively and more democratically i would be much more concerned with those things and with
00:42:47.940our offer to canadians than the shiny surfaces but hell if you look at our campaign we love great
00:42:54.180design and we are blessed to have found the most awesome designer adam warner who does all of our
00:42:59.140stuff there is no ai in our branding and in our and our in our is that a barb no it was
00:43:06.260is that a bar for rob i don't know if you saw that headline no no no no no no it was a barb
00:43:10.580what are your thoughts on barb uh barb what are your thoughts on rob using she's one of my closest
00:43:16.260friends but what are your thoughts on rob using ai for his reddit ask me anything i mean no i i was
00:43:23.380more responding to people who are calling us out on your social media for using ai in our design
00:43:27.860which we totally don't like i think it's not like this gotcha thing of people like oh you used a
00:43:32.740hyphen you you know this is obviously chat gbt in that case it happened that it was but just because
00:43:38.340you recognize some of the patterns it's actually sometimes it can be really hard to tell i overuse
00:43:42.660hyphens massively and i'm a human being me too i get really mad actually when people accuse me of
00:43:47.620being ai for using hyphens but but do you think that you know progressive leaders have a responsibility
00:43:53.460to not use ai for non-essential reasons i can't really think of any essential reasons for it but
00:43:59.620yeah i mean there's so i think that ai is a gigantic subject which i hope we have a ton
00:44:05.460more time to talk about we're releasing two minutes we were talking well we're releasing
00:44:09.060our platform on jobs and work and ai in the next uh in the next week or so i think um and we've
00:44:14.580been thinking about it a lot uh first of all it's generative ai and large language models not all
00:44:19.620artificial intelligence machine learning is used in lots of important ways in research and um and
00:44:25.300medicine um and we're not talking about that but the the ai bubble is a massive concern for the
00:44:31.620global financial stability um and if we have another bust when this trillions of dollars
00:44:36.900of speculative wealth uh uh explodes all of us are going to be hurt so we need to do that the
00:44:42.900data centers are are marching across the landscape using water and electricity uh in communities that
00:44:48.900are water stressed and i think we need to have a pause on data centers in terms of using ai tools
00:44:54.340for like research or like you know developing documents and stuff like that i'm not against
00:44:58.980all that i teach students um uh at the university and and my policy in my classes was if you don't
00:45:06.180use ai to write your stuff that's that you we need your voice we need that's an essential method of
00:45:12.580of human communication, but for research or, you know, or, or, uh, um, organizing large amounts of
00:45:19.380information, there are tools out there that are legit, but you don't want to have a machine
00:45:22.800writing your stuff. No, just no, just not. Okay. I know you, I know we're at that time,
00:45:30.140but we just got one last super chat question. So if I can just quickly throw you, um, passenger
00:45:35.300rail, the people yearn for trades. What are your thoughts on improving passenger rail across the
00:45:41.040to increase funding infrastructure, bring back older routes. Thoughts?