00:04:06.260And then, of course, in the aftermath, you have to clean up all of your offices.
00:04:11.000You have to find your staff, my extraordinary staff, new jobs.
00:04:17.200So it was a slow motion accident or collision that played out over a number of months.
00:04:24.980No surprise, but now we're committed to rebuilding.
00:04:28.640There is a need for the NDP in this country, and we need to rebuild our party.
00:04:33.740When you mentioned that the supports weren't necessarily there at that tail end,
00:04:38.040was that a decision from sort of headquarters where there was mistakes made with respect to the allocation of those resources?
00:04:45.600Yeah, we saw a lot of people going into Burnaby Central and we needed some of those canvassers. They weren't available to us. And so this is the kind of mistake that is made in a campaign that is difficult then to basically to fix afterwards.
00:05:06.200That's why we need to make sure that the next time we go into a campaign, that we have the resources allocated in a way that actually makes sure that we enhance our presence in Parliament.
00:05:18.920There is a need for the NDP. The difference between having 12 seats and being a recognized party is measurable.
00:05:26.860There are a whole range of parliamentary tools that you can use, 12 seats and more, that are magnificent seven MPs that are working extraordinarily hard, aren't able to access because they are not a recognized party.
00:05:41.380That's why it was important for the party to make sure that they're putting the resources in the right place.
00:05:46.660And it's really, really important that we learn the lessons from this campaign and move forward as a renewed, reinvigorated, re-energized party.
00:05:55.520Yeah. Jyvonne, how about you? What was that election night like? How did you feel
00:06:01.120as the night progressed? Was anything about it a surprise?
00:06:05.440For sure. Well, on top of being a candidate for a topical center, a riding that we always knew we
00:06:11.520would not win, it's been historically a conservative liberal riding with a pretty close race. So I was
00:06:17.440a staffer for the party during the election as well. And so I wanted to be strategic with which
00:06:22.240riding i was supporting the one we had the best chance in and in my view uh out in toronto um on
00:06:28.000the west side of the city it was taylor parkdale high park was our best chance with a long time
00:06:33.600mbp butila carpoche running in that riding federally for the first time and so i was
00:06:38.400canvassing for her the entire day on election day like 12 13 hours straight uh including going to
00:06:44.080the polls and helping count the votes uh things like that um for our own records and i remember
00:06:50.160when i was sitting in that poll and i was um working with elections canada workers to note
00:06:55.760down what each poll looked like it was pretty pretty evident at that point that it looked like
00:07:02.080it was going to be a liberal landslide and i think that translated nationally as well people
00:07:06.880were voting out of a place of fear and what they were telling me at the door on election day is
00:07:11.200that they were just so scared about the possibility of pierre poly of being our prime minister and
00:07:15.680they voted from that place of fear and they ended up voting um against conservative more so than for
00:07:21.920liberals and the riding ended up going liberal uh even though it was it's a strongly uh historically
00:07:28.880ndp and liberal riding and people didn't need to necessarily do that i think the national
00:07:33.200wave of fear really pushed people in that direction and so it was a bit of a shock i
00:07:37.680had held out faith for us to hold on to official party status i was kind of really holding on to
00:07:43.280the idea of that 12-seat benchmark. I thought that Peter would keep his seat. I thought that
00:07:47.180a lot of all the incumbents had a great shot and that some star candidates like Boutella Carpoche
00:07:52.380in Toronto, Joel Harden in Ottawa, and so on, like I thought they had a really good shot.
00:07:58.340And I think in any other normal circumstances, they would have. So the outcome was definitely
00:08:02.280upsetting. But like Peter said, there were things pointing to that. Like if you were knocking on
00:08:07.340doors the week leading up or even the month leading up to the election, it was pretty evident
00:08:10.680that people were feeling that fear, especially with, at the time, the real fear of the 51st
00:08:16.540state rhetoric from America. Yeah, you know, I had this question further down for you guys,
00:08:22.340but I just feel like we're so well set up for it right now. I kind of just want to dig right into
00:08:26.560it. You know, I do feel like an overarching battle that the NDP is up against is the fact that
00:08:34.500fascism is on the rise. Polyev is importing a lot of it. I mean, I reported this week and Susan
00:08:41.140Delacour also noted this exact same thing that he's literally mirroring language that we're seeing
00:08:46.040in Trump executive orders in his fundraising emails and tweets and petitions that he's putting
00:08:51.520forth. At the same time, the liberals are kind of filling that fear gap where they are the option
00:09:02.640that a lot of people feel is the only viable one in the face of such a scary threat like that fear
00:09:08.160level is so high um when that is a genuine threat how do you convince people not to play it safe i
00:09:18.800guess for lack of a better word because that seems to be what they feel they're doing um and i think
00:09:23.760that you know there's a lot of issues with strategic voting for example and the resources
00:09:27.680available for that um but how do you convince people not to be scared and to support you guys
00:09:37.840in the face of what is a genuine concern who wants to take that one
00:09:48.320yeah i mean i can kick us off just saying that you're you're absolutely correct i think if we
00:09:54.320really takes stock of what's happening around the world and especially on the west uh in canada and
00:09:59.600in the us it's a really scary time for everyone um especially for those at the margins of our society
00:10:06.880and so i think it's completely understandable where people are coming from when they feel this
00:10:12.640fear and this concern and the need to be strategic and to be cautious and so on and i think it's
00:10:18.400frankly shameful that the parties like the liberal uh the status quo party as well as you know this
00:10:23.360now far-right-leaning Conservative Party are kind of preying on that. They're exploiting people's
00:10:28.880fear and their worries for their own gain and I think that's really concerning and it's just the
00:10:34.640moment that we have to rise to as the third party. I think the really great thing about being in
00:10:39.600Canada is that fortunately we have real non-two-party system ahead of us and so yeah I think
00:10:46.880you're totally right that we have a lot of barriers ahead of us in terms of just the infrastructure
00:10:52.640that these status quo establishment government parties have built around preying on people's fear.
00:10:59.680But I think if we come together as the 99%, you know, the average Canadian who works every day
00:11:06.080and is having a hard time affording life in the affordability crisis alongside our social issues
00:11:11.520and the rise of fascism, I think there really is a way forward. I think, for example, we could
00:11:15.440rally around electoral reform. We could rally around like a real strong Canadian identity.
00:11:21.360I think there's things we can identify for us to all find common ground on.
00:11:25.780Like, we don't have to all agree with each other on everything.
00:11:28.680But I think if we're able to kind of find that bottom line of what holds us together and against the oppressive forces down south and at home, I think there is really a path forward.
00:19:24.600The NDP has to be the vehicle to provide those bold solutions to Canadians.
00:19:28.600And I just want to add one more thing that just kind of came to my mind while I was hearing Peter speak,
00:19:33.600which is that I think a lot of people come from a place of wanting to take care of themselves and their loved ones.
00:19:40.600right in this country we're seeing yeah like people are really scared about ideas like crime
00:19:45.800and and these um catch and release quote-unquote policies they're worried about what that means
00:19:50.760for their kids on the street and what it means um if there's these social programs that are being
00:19:55.720funded by taxpayer dollars but the liberal parties are mismanaging the government is mismanaging
00:20:00.600that and i think i i can empathize where they're with where they're coming from because i totally
00:20:05.720hear people understanding that these social programs in theory are good, but when they're
00:20:10.860carried out by a neoliberal government, the one we've had for over a decade, they really do
00:20:15.600butcher it and they prioritize giving contracts to private corporates, corporations and things
00:20:21.300like that. And so I think people vote conservative sometimes thinking that, you know, the term
00:20:26.640conservative, you know, conservatism as an ideology economically would mean being more
00:20:32.040conservative with taxpayer dollars but the reality is that's not what they're campaigning on and it's
00:20:37.640not what they would do if they were in government uh what we're seeing with the liberal party
00:20:41.560shifting rightwards and with the conservatives being the official opposition but voting through
00:20:45.560everything that the liberals are pushing is is more burden on taxpayers uh increasing defense
00:20:51.720spending when it's not needed and only to appease donald trump like things that aren't in line with
00:20:56.600what canadians actually need and want but when they're talking to canadians they pretend they do
00:21:01.400They pretend they see people's concerns about how taxpayer dollars are being misused and promised to change that.
00:21:07.960But in reality, they're not. They're taking that money themselves.
00:21:11.760They're getting paid by that money as elected officials.
00:21:14.100And every MP beyond their own salary gets thousands of dollars a month for travel, for events, gets hundreds of thousands a year to staff people.
00:21:23.040Oftentimes they staff their own family members or friends.
00:21:25.920Like, it's this entire system of our federal government that we really need to be honest about.
00:21:33.100Like, I'm here to really be frank and talk about it in a bit of a less, quote unquote, nuanced way.
00:21:38.960Because I think it's time for us to be really upfront with each other about what it really means when someone is voting conservative or representing the conservative party.
00:21:48.440Because I genuinely think that it comes from a place of exploitation.
00:21:51.120Yeah, I mean, we got a perfect example of what you just described in this last week with the announcement of bail reforms.
00:21:58.260And, you know, both the conservatives and the liberals have been pushing for this.
00:22:01.620The liberals basically just took a lot of the conservative policy on this.
00:22:05.300But it's creating more folks who are incarcerated, who are legally innocent.
00:22:11.200When you make it harder for people to get bail, right now we're seeing a situation before these are even implemented,
00:22:18.580these changes where the majority of people who are incarcerated, I believe in Ontario,
00:22:25.160are legally innocent. They're awaiting trial or awaiting bail. So if you make that harder,
00:22:29.500that's just going to put more of a strain on these resources and cost more money to have
00:22:33.140these people incarcerated. So you're not actually addressing the root causes of crime, which would
00:22:38.380save money in the long run. Peter, I think you're going to jump in there.
00:22:41.520Just because you're raising a very key point here, that the Liberals and Conservatives are
00:22:47.000voting together on that. They voted together on Bill C-5, which pushed aside Indigenous rights
00:22:51.620and environmental obligations by Canada's corporations. They're supporting C-2. The
00:22:58.060kinds of pushing aside of labour rights that we saw with Mark Carney and the Liberals trying to
00:23:05.480force flight attendants back to work, and we've seen this with postal workers and railway workers,
00:23:10.380that that is something that a Stephen Harper government did as well.
00:23:15.780And now we have the drive to eliminate home delivery,
00:23:19.540which has a profound impact on seniors and people with disabilities
00:23:23.700and communities right across the country.
00:23:25.740That's what Stephen Harper tried to do.
00:23:29.480And we are anticipating now an austerity budget,
00:23:32.840a Stephen Harper budget in a little less than a month
00:23:35.840that will cut back dramatically on public services.
00:23:39.880Now, at the same time, massive amounts of corporate welfare, almost $20 billion spent last year on corporate outsourcing, rather than providing the supports to build the kind of public service that provides excellent public services.
00:23:54.540I mean, what we have is two parties that are Tweedledum and Tweedledee, and there is definitely a place for the NDP. But what we need to do is provide the kinds of direction, the leadership that people see that indicates that it's going to make a difference in their lives, that ultimately the affordability crisis is going to be addressed.
00:24:15.840the gouging that people get when they go to the grocery store will be addressed. The lack of
00:24:21.520affordable housing will be addressed. These are things that the NDP has championed in the past.
00:24:26.800We have a track record, but we need to put it out in such a way with the conversations that we have
00:24:33.200across the country that people can understand that voting NDP will make a positive difference
00:24:38.300in their lives. Yeah. And, you know, I really do want to dig into, and we will after I want to
00:24:46.000give you guys a chance to talk about your efforts to actually sort of dig into the problems the NDP
00:24:50.700has and what you're doing to change that. But I want to, after that, talk about communication,
00:24:55.660because I think that at the end of the day is a lot of what this all comes down to. And
00:24:59.460unfortunately, you guys, your ideas don't exactly have the billionaire tech platform owners on side.
00:25:05.560So you're not going to get the algorithmic push that someone like Pierre Polyev might get.
00:25:10.560But before we dive into that, I do want to give you guys the opportunity, because otherwise I'm going to keep talking your ear off about policy, to talk about the efforts that you're both sort of leading separately, but also working on together because it's all complementary.
00:25:25.520So for those listening right now, there is the party itself is conducting a postmortem, but then we have these two sort of complementary but different efforts from Peter and Jiwon and those who you're both respectively working with to remake and reimagine what the NDP could be.
00:25:50.780So I guess I'd like to give you each the opportunity to sort of give your pitch on what exactly you're doing and also how they're different and kind of complement each other.
00:26:02.220So, Peter, I don't know if you want to go first and then we'll hop over to G1.
00:26:07.760Sure, sure. And the party does have a review and renewal process.
00:26:18.360It's been extended to the end of October.
00:26:20.780I think the issue for renewal is this is a process that's going to take us right through to the March convention.
00:26:29.120And so we launched a couple of weeks ago the NDP's renewal initiative.
00:26:35.900And we've been really overwhelmed by the supports, people wanting to step forward to be volunteers,
00:26:44.260people going on our website, looking at our survey, offering suggestions.
00:26:48.840We're now in the process of putting together some policy initiatives that we would be putting out to our membership, to writing associations across the country, to affiliates and allied organizations for feedback.
00:27:00.320And that's how it worked back in 1995.
00:27:03.200We provided for information going out.
00:27:08.980And ultimately, there was consensus documents, platform recommendations around globalization and social policy and the economy, a substantial change to the structure of the party back in 1995, a renewal declaration, a statement of principles.
00:27:25.400What we're doing is modernizing that. So some of the documentation from 30 years ago is remarkably prescient today. And some of it is very clearly no longer relevant. And so this type of back and forth grassroots generated debate and discussion is absolutely essential to renewing our party.
00:27:49.520What we want to do is give the tools to the new leader, whoever that person is, at the end of March, rather than the person stepping forward and then having to look at platform recommendations and structure to have all of that in place for the end of March so that we can move forward as a movement for an election that could well be in 2026.
00:28:10.920the Liberals, according to many rumors, are wanting to get a majority and wanting to force
00:28:16.760elections. NDP has to be ready, particularly at this time when we're needed now more than ever.
00:28:24.600And Juwan, so what sort of is the Reclaim movement and how is it both distinct and
00:28:31.720complementary to what Peter just described? So Reclaim Canada's NDP is a movement that
00:28:38.200we've been running for a couple months now and i'd say its main focus is renewing internal party
00:28:43.400democracy in the ndp i think we're very structurally focused um and i think renewal is really really
00:28:49.880awesome and i'm so glad that peter is doing the work that him and everyone else is doing
00:28:54.360uh because they're really about renewing the ndp's platform uh policy wise and just the presence we
00:29:01.320take uh in a political way but i think reclaim is about building structure uh because kind of
00:29:06.840alluding back to what i was saying about how people only really see the alternative to the
00:29:11.480liberal status quo being the conservatives i think we as a party the ndp have long failed to rise to
00:29:18.440the moment we haven't presented ourselves as a legitimate viable option and so the mission of
00:29:23.800reclaim ndp is to bring the ndp into the hands of the working class of the grassroots of this of
00:29:30.040the 99 and at the same time make it a viable political option because the reality is we can
00:29:35.640have the best policies ever you know hypothetically but if we're not getting elected we can't get
00:29:40.120things done so what that looks like in action is that a lot of people don't know and i didn't know
00:29:45.160this until actually this year that the ndp has these local branches called riding associations
00:29:50.360or electoral district associations across the 343 federal ridings there's one association each
00:29:56.920and they're supposed to be like local volunteer teams that make up those associations and that
00:30:01.880get involved in their community whether that be uh doing fundraisers or doing like a community
00:30:06.120barbecue or maybe tabling at festivals and uh walking in pride fair or things like that it's
00:30:13.560supposed to be this force of the like the front line and the face of the party on people you can
00:30:18.680trust the neighbors you know and the people whose like backyards that you can go hang out in but we
00:30:22.920haven't had that like we we historically have over a hundred ndp local writing associations that are
00:30:29.480not active and i think the work that we're doing at reclaim is really about showing people that
00:30:34.440political organizing is accessible and making it accessible because for a long time it's been a bit
00:30:39.080of a exclusive club in a way like i come from a very non-partisan background even though i've
00:30:43.720always been politically inclined because i i come from a very like mistrusting place for the
00:30:48.600government and electoral politics i for a long time like didn't really believe in the government
00:30:53.160saving us in any way but until in the past year the ndp and the last caucus that peter was a part
00:30:58.040of really push for radical changes like dental care and anti-scab legislation and pharma care
00:31:03.000so seeing those electoral successes i realized that we can kind of form this conjunction of this
00:31:08.920larger social movement for progressive um development alongside of an electoral branch
00:31:14.920and so what i'm hoping for is that the ndp puts you know their money where their mouth is at as
00:31:20.120well as walking the talk and and being showing up in their communities like i don't want the ndp to
00:31:24.440just talk about uh the housing crisis and about the food affordability crisis i want us to be
00:31:30.040showing up to food banks and volunteering i want us to be helping them do uh canned food drives i
00:31:35.000want us to be providing the support that people need to know how to apply for social housing like
00:31:40.200i want us to be real um staples in our communities in tangible ways not just showing up every couple
00:31:47.080years and asking for people to vote for us and promising a bunch of things that they never hear
00:31:50.600about again so yeah reclaim is about reclaiming the party right for for the working class and for
00:31:55.960the average canadian and for the everyday canadian and also very notably coming at it from a really
00:32:01.080intersectional and inclusive place because i don't think it's about abandoning quote-unquote identity
00:32:07.240politics i don't think it's about abandoning any of our existing values it's about connecting with
00:32:11.880people and showing them why it all benefits us all when we we really understand how we're all
00:32:18.120marginalized in a capitalistic and racist and sexist society and seeing what we can to turn that
00:32:23.320around. One thing that I know, sorry, go ahead, Peter. Just to build on G1's comments, in both
00:32:29.560cases, all of the volunteers for the NDP Renewal Initiative, for Reclaim, we're doing this in our
00:32:37.640own time with our own resources, paying out of pocket. I mean, if that doesn't show the importance
00:32:43.960of re-establishing the NDP that people now at a time when the NDP has very few resources nationally
00:32:50.920that we're willing to invest with our own money and our own time to to rebuild this party I if
00:32:57.640that doesn't show the importance of having the movement then I don't know what does I all of
00:33:03.240these volunteers are giving immeasurably of their own efforts because we believe the NDP needs to
00:33:10.680to come back stronger than ever. Yeah, so I guess, how can people get involved if anyone's listening
00:33:16.420and wants to have a say in what the NDP, the direction it heads in and what it looks like
00:33:22.880in the future? What would you tell them? Be a member, buy a membership. It does cost money.
00:33:30.540It's between, depending on where you are in the country, a membership costs between $0 to $25
00:33:36.420dollars a year it's about five to ten dollars a year on average and being a member means that
00:33:41.120you get a say like I think a lot of people are disillusioned by the NDP and I do not blame them
00:33:45.740I think there's a lot of issues with this party and I think it's the place we need to start is
00:33:50.020recognizing that but also we can only make change if we all have a stake in it right we all need to
00:33:54.920be stakeholders because we are we're all working class Canadians and so I think just going over
00:34:00.260that that ledge of getting that membership just so that you can join your local EDA show up to
00:34:05.180NDP meetings, nominate your local NDP candidate. If you can, if you're a local community leader,
00:34:10.380think about running as an NDP candidate whenever that next election is going to be,
00:34:14.020and starting to talk to people about it in your community and seeing what people in your area
00:34:18.620need. I think just see how you can fit into this larger movement. Like, don't just see it as
00:34:24.880something that's happening on the side and that you are observing. I think really positioning
00:34:29.080yourself as someone who can take action and understanding that you have that autonomy
00:35:51.400And becoming a member of the party allows you to have a say, allows you to have a say
00:35:56.360in who the future leader will be, allows you to have a say in your local candidate.
00:36:01.820A whole range of responsibilities and rights come with membership of the NDP as well.
00:36:08.860We believe in the face of what was a catastrophe, April 28th was the worst election
00:36:14.240since the founding of the Cooperative Commonwealth Federation nearly a century ago.
00:36:18.840I mean, it was absolutely the most abysmal election results we've ever had.
00:36:23.480But what I found with our local team is they were committed and ready to go out within days.
00:36:32.440And we've been knocking on doors all summer and into the fall.
00:36:36.480And what we're hearing is people want to see the NDP back stronger than ever.
00:36:41.540They are dismayed often by Carney's move to the right.
00:36:45.260He was saying basically, don't vote for Pollyev, I'll be progressive.
00:36:49.400And then he turned into conservative light and is doing this many of the same things that Stephen Harper wanted to do or tried to do.
00:36:56.940And so my sense is that I feel optimistic if we can put the nuts and bolts of renewal into place, if we can reclaim the party, all of these initiatives that are taking place with volunteers getting involved.
00:37:13.060If we can do these things, we will be a viable political force in the next election.
00:37:17.560And that gives hope for Canadians who are struggling to even to put food on the table, that there will be a party standing up for them and a party that will standing against what Ottawa has become, which is just this cesspool of corporate welfare where massive amounts of money go to the wealthiest and most privileged in society and very little goes to the people who actually need it most.
00:37:42.780And I just want to add on the leadership race front that it's really exciting what we're seeing. We've got five full amazing candidates on the slate, you know, competing to be the next leader of the NDP. And I just want to really encourage everyone here to try to get involved with the leadership campaigns. Like if you identify with one of the candidates, you think they would really be the right person to lead us towards a better Canada, get involved with that campaign.
00:38:07.320And like, I think reclaim and renewal are these larger, quote unquote, agnostic movements when it comes to the leadership race.
00:38:13.440But what I'm really passionate about is making any political thing in Canada more accessible, including a leadership race for the NDP.
00:38:20.720So, for example, if you want to go to reclaimcanadasndp.ca, there's a link to join our Discord server.
00:38:26.980And we'll be doing a watch party next Wednesday for the first leadership forum because it's taking place in person in Ottawa.
00:38:34.460so you know if people want to hop on my little voice call on our discord server and just kind
00:38:38.700of make little side comments and have our own reactions uh to the leadership forum that's
00:38:43.580coming up uh without the clc is hosting like that's one way we're looking at it i'm working
00:38:48.220with a lot of the equity commissions in the party to make sure that those voices are being platformed
00:38:52.780when it comes to the leadership race right like for example the party has a people living with
00:38:56.620disabilities commission that hasn't been super supported so far but i'm working with their chair
00:39:02.300on trying to organize an accessible leadership forum so that would look like a digital virtual
00:39:07.500leadership forum maybe with an in-person component that has professional sign language interpreters
00:39:12.540in both official languages and so on right there's these different ways that we can platform people
00:39:17.260and make the party actually inclusive in a way that benefits everyone including working with
00:39:22.140the racial justice commission and the indigenous people's commission to get their own forums on
00:39:25.740their own issues the queer commission the 2SLGBTQIA plus commission on getting a forum with all the
00:39:31.180candidates and trying to understand what their history has been in advocating for queer rights
00:39:36.220in Canada. So there's these different ways that I think anyone can really get involved at any point.
00:39:41.180If you want to organize a watch party in your town for Wednesday, go for it. If you want to
00:39:45.020invite a couple friends over to your basement and like throw the CLC forum up on the screen
00:39:49.580and just eat some popcorn and treat the, you know, about it, go for it. Like I think there's
00:39:55.020There's kind of a barrier between what people consider like official political involvement and like these official events and what we do at home.
00:40:05.320But I think we really want to identify that the political is personal and the personal is political and that it's we are all stakeholders in what's happening in this country and in this world.
00:40:14.900Right. So just seeing how personal it is and talking to your friends about it.
00:40:19.240Like maybe you don't want to talk about politics at work or with your friends, but it's kind of important.
00:40:23.220right it's it's the the foundation of our society so maybe maybe see what you can do in your local
00:40:28.940communities and just spread the word uh and um engage with the leadership candidates i think
00:40:33.380that's the last thing i would really emphasize just because this campaign is this leadership
00:40:37.180race is a really exciting opportunity um especially for folks like me because this
00:40:40.920is my first ever leadership race i was not a voting age last time it is wild to me how young
00:40:47.800you are with all that you're doing it's impressive although it makes sense that you have the energy
00:40:51.520you have. Yeah, I did want to pivot slightly to the, you know, one thing that I, a theme I was
00:41:01.220sort of picking out, especially in what Jiwon was saying, you know, you were talking about how
00:41:05.700you got excited about the NDP during the last sort of government with pharmacare, with dental care,
00:41:11.640like with all of these discussions that were happening and the ways in which the NDP sort of
00:41:15.320push those issues. But a lot of Canadians, like the rhetoric that I was seeing from the public,
00:41:21.700there was a disconnect there. A lot of them didn't seem to understand, despite Polyam's effort to
00:41:26.920frame the liberal NDP deal as a coalition, which it wasn't. But, you know, they weren't really
00:41:34.240understanding that the NDP was behind that push or not really crediting the NDP with that work.
00:41:41.260um there's clearly a communications issue with the NDP I mean there's just something that's not
00:41:48.440connecting and I wanted to ask you guys in an atmosphere in a political climate where and I
00:41:55.780understand that there's you know an uphill battle as I mentioned with respect to the tech billionaires
00:42:00.220who control a lot of these platforms and are shaping them in their political image particularly
00:42:04.520Twitter. But the conservatives have clearly figured out how to utilize the influencer network and the
00:42:13.620podcast network, the new media sphere, and get their messaging out in a way that is really driving
00:42:20.080the political agenda in this country. They are really commanding the conversation and directing
00:42:24.500the issues that a lot of people are responding to. How do you disrupt that? And how do you get
00:42:30.940in there so people hear you if you don't mind peter i can kick us off just because i i'm i'm a
00:42:38.040i come from a bit of an influencer background to be frank like i i think the digital age is what
00:42:44.300i've grown up in you know i i was way too young when i first got social media and all those things
00:42:49.920right i think it's a it's an interesting time it's a completely new era that we're in where
00:42:53.580people are just exposed to so much online and it's an indiscriminately large amount of content that
00:43:00.380that can bring people down any type of pipeline politically right and and also just socially
00:43:06.860and so I think I will say that as someone who worked for the party and as someone who works
00:43:13.460professionally as a communications person I think the party the NDP has a lot to improve on from a
00:43:19.100technical standpoint but also just on the the point of like values and just how we do things
00:43:26.620just from a really base level, because I think, you know, no shade to the people who've been
00:43:30.960running this party, because I'm really grateful for the work that they have done. But I think
00:43:34.880it's really time to acknowledge that we need to bring in more perspectives, maybe younger voices
00:43:39.900on what's happening in the digital age and on the digital front of things, and what people really
00:43:45.640need to see and what will actually help communicate those messages. Because I totally hear you. I
00:43:50.540think communication breakdown was a really big issue with the NDP, because I didn't really know
00:43:54.620about all the things that the NDP were doing until I decided to look into it. It's not something I
00:43:58.360came across. I had to do personal research on it. I had to go on rcommons.ca and see how the
00:44:03.260different parties voted on different bills and what bills they tabled. And only from that, I
00:44:08.000understood that the NDP were really different. Only from going into these individual MPs' websites
00:44:13.340and reading about their work there that they had written and put on their own websites, was I able
00:44:18.160to find out that, for example, NDP MP Leah Gazan has made historic advancements in addressing
00:44:24.820the missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls and two-spirited people crisis in
00:44:28.540Canada, which is a national emergency.
00:44:30.880So it's those things that are not talked about that are a big issue to me, that we haven't
00:44:35.640been able to bring them to center stage.
00:44:37.900We haven't been able to control the narrative and the stage.
00:44:40.880And so I think in order to do that, we need to let there be more voices contributing to
00:44:47.960strategy and also on execution. I think the NDP has long been a bit scared to really mobilize in
00:44:54.260a grassroots way influencers and other forms of digital advocacy. But I think if we really respect
00:45:01.200the work that's happening and understand how important it is, then we'd be able to kind of
00:45:05.260reframe around that and push for the messaging that we need to get out there. Peter, what were
00:45:10.900your thoughts on that? Well, Juwan's absolutely right that we haven't been effective in getting
00:45:17.600information across. I mean, the new dental care program, certainly people in my area understand
00:45:23.080that the NDP not only fought for it, but had to fight for it a dozen different times because
00:45:27.980the Liberals really did not want to implement the program. The new pharmacare program for people
00:45:35.340with diabetes is now, Carney, is now turning around and renouncing, moving further to other
00:45:41.800types of medication, even though people are paying $1,000 a month often for heart medication that
00:45:46.720keeps them alive. The anti-scab legislation, the affordable housing investments that we forced the
00:45:52.980government to put into place over the last two budgets, all of those things would not have
00:45:58.040happened without the NDP. And yet we didn't communicate them, I don't believe, in an effective
00:46:04.180way. And I think Ji-Huan's right that there's not the diversity of voices within our party and our
00:46:10.360movement. It's a very closed shop. And that has been to our detriment. Not only are we not getting
00:46:17.440the information across, but we're also making the kinds of strategic errors that we saw in the last
00:46:23.860campaign and not meeting the moment at a time when people wanted to see bold proposals, solutions that
00:46:31.440would actually make a difference in their lives. We held our platform hidden, closed to our chest
00:46:36.960announced it just a few days before the election uh they at that point people had already voted in
00:46:41.760advanced polls and so it's it's broadening the voices which is why both of our our volunteer
00:46:49.680initiatives have come come to being we want to mobilize the grassroots we want to make sure that
00:46:55.360people's voices are heard that is going to strengthen our party and and in the digital
00:47:01.040sphere, we need to counter what is a preponderant far-right bias proposed by billionaires with the0.54
00:47:09.440algorithms that we know that force feed right-wing garbage into so many people's brains. What we need0.97
00:47:16.820to do is create that space where there's alternatives. And your work here is vital,
00:47:22.720as is so many others. To actually get facts across, to give people hope, we need to put
00:47:30.260the all the resources we can into enhancing those voices and making them heard right across the
00:47:35.820digital sphere. Yeah, I mean, I think a really good example of where you guys got close, but then
00:47:43.600sort of tripped up was in the election campaign. Jagmeet Singh was trying to embrace the sort of
00:47:49.720online content creator world and these influencers bring them onto the campaign and have that
00:47:54.120transparency but then when the national post went after one of these uh creators uh in really bad
00:48:01.780faith you know framing her uh despite the fact that she was an advocate for chronic illness and
00:48:07.080an outspoken sort of educator in that space um framing her as an only fans creator and implying
00:48:13.460that she created a disrespectful holocaust video and i would argue based on me having seen that
00:48:19.120video, that is not a fair characterization of it. She just compared what is happening with
00:48:25.480Palestine to the Holocaust. And that is a comparison that Holocaust scholars who study
00:48:32.480these and understand the Holocaust as a definition have also made. So I guess it's the issue that
00:48:41.020maybe certain folks in NDP leadership don't understand the ways in which bad faith campaign
00:48:47.100in press can be mobilized by sort of bad actors to frame people and create a narrative and don't
00:48:55.580understand how to push back against those bad faith narratives and instead are willing to sort
00:49:00.940of throw these voices under the bus or because I think that a part of the reason that attack
00:49:05.840happened I mean maybe this is a little tinfoil hat actually but it's you guys were touching on
00:49:10.540something that actually really could have worked there and then caved at the first sort of counter
00:49:16.640to that effort. So what do you think of that situation? And how did you learn from it?
00:49:23.420Yeah, as someone who has been organizing in the pro-Palestine space for the past couple years,
00:49:28.740since the ongoing genocide in Gaza really worsened in 2023, like I think I was really
00:49:36.540glad before to see that the party was taking a pro-Palestine stance and then really disappointed
00:49:41.420when the fallout happened with the way that the party treated Jessica Wetz, who was that
00:49:46.100influencer you're referring to and I've reached out to her personally and offered like an apology
00:49:50.060on in the ways that I can and in the extent that I can because I think that was a terrible way to
00:49:54.460treat anyone especially someone who is doing free work for you as an influencer and also as a person
00:50:00.620that lives with invisible disabilities that has the issues of having a lived experience as a woman
00:50:05.620like I really appreciate her content and I think she's doing really critical work so I just want
00:50:10.740to say like again like I think the party needs to apologize to Jessica and really make that right
00:50:14.680I think specifically the person who gave the comments to the National Post against Jessica from the point of the NDP was Anne McGrath, who used to be the national director and then was the secretary to Jagmeet and now is no longer with the party.
00:50:27.780I believe she's working privately as a consultant at a private political consultant firm that started by Mark Carney's campaign manager.
00:50:36.080So I would really invite Anne McGrath, for example, specifically to offer a personal apology to Jessica Wetz for how the party treated her, because I think it's really terrible.
00:50:45.600I think we really need to be able to identify what our core values are.
00:50:49.900And I think we need to be entrusting power with the right people within this movement and within this party.
00:50:54.920Because if we are operating in a way where something like this can slip through, like clearly we're doing something wrong internally.
00:51:01.880I think we need to be able to identify what our true core values are, including being unapologetically and bravely progressive and inclusive and strongly pro-Palestine and anti-genocide.
00:51:15.940And we're only going to be able to do that if we hold each other accountable.
00:51:19.040So I'd love to see some accountability from the party.
00:51:20.960And that's something I've been asking for through Reclaim for a while.
00:51:23.380I've been asking for the higher ups in the party, a lot of them being white people and not to dog dog on people's race.
00:51:30.500But I think like a lot of the times when you live in a colonial country like Canada and you have those privileges, you have blind spots.
00:51:37.320And so I can understand where people might come from thinking that it's fine what they're doing.
00:51:40.640But in reality, they're hurting people and they're hurting a larger movement.
00:51:43.260So I'd love to see some accountability.
00:51:51.140I also think that the party needs to have the courage of its convictions.
00:51:55.920And I think part of what we saw unravel over the course of the last campaign was because we didn't really know in the platform, in what we were proposing, we didn't have the confidence, the courage of our convictions.
00:52:13.100Then we fold it so quickly when the National Post, which has an axe to grind, is heavily taxpayer subsidized.
00:52:49.620When we talk about billionaires paying their fair share of taxes, that's going to provoke a reaction.
00:52:54.440We need to have the courage of our convictions.
00:52:56.780We need to build from the grassroots so that we are able to push through that far right infrastructure
00:53:04.340and this pushback from centrists that support the existing status quo
00:53:10.640so that we can provide hope to Canadians.
00:53:13.920And that is just one example of the NDP not having the solid base,
00:53:20.100the grassroots base, and the courage to move forward.
00:53:23.960And the next campaign has to be different.
00:53:26.700And that's why we are doing the work that we're doing.
00:53:29.040Yeah, I feel like, honestly, that's the model that Zoran Mamdani is nailing, which is, you know, everyone's looking at him being like, how does he have this secret sauce? And part of it's just that he's got an incredible amount of charisma.
00:53:43.020But I also think that it's the fact that he not only has figured out how to communicate in an accessible and clear and bold and unapologetic way, but he's also understood the bad faith nature of the pushback from the billionaire class that he is facing and knows not to cave to that.
00:54:01.800And I think that that's the element that a lot of these sorts of communications miss is they fail to have that bravery and have that backbone in the face of the bad faith pushback, which can be really loud, particularly with the both sidesism in our traditional media apparatus, where they do tend to elevate even bad faith blowback as legitimate blowback.
00:54:26.260So I think that it's really a question of understanding how to see through that and be
00:54:30.820strong in your convictions. So I only have about four minutes left in our usual time,
00:54:36.660and I don't want to keep you guys extra long. We do have one audience question that came in
00:54:42.660throughout the interview today, and I want to take that. But before I pull that up, I'll give people
00:54:48.740a second if I have any others to ask, although we only have a couple minutes here. And while people
00:54:53.540use that time. Did you guys want to tell people where they can keep up with your work and the
00:54:59.360work of your respective initiatives? Jiwon, you can go first if you'd like. Yeah, I'm personally,
00:55:05.460I'm Jiwon Jung underscore official on all platforms. But also our work at Reclaim is
00:55:11.280under reclaim.ndp on all platforms, social media wise. And then the website is reclaimcandidasndp.ca.
00:55:17.880Great. Thank you so much. And Peter, where can people keep up with you?
00:55:21.920NDPrenewal.ca, but of course, as well, we have our website available on all social media platforms as well.
00:55:30.920And the reality is, the more people stepping forward, the better.
00:55:36.700We've had dozens and dozens of people offer to be part of the renewal initiative just since we launched a couple of weeks ago.
00:55:43.600And we're working through now getting those folks involved in the campaign.
00:55:48.740the importance that you want attached to getting involved in the party I can't stress enough as
00:55:56.480well joining up with the party getting involved in your local writing association there's a
00:56:01.980wide variety of ways to help out right now and help build the party and your voice and your time
00:56:09.580and any other resources you could provide to the party is essential for our rebuilding so that
00:56:15.920we're ready when the next political moment comes, and that could well be in the next few months.
00:56:23.480Yeah, and we do have a town hall coming up for those in the metro Vancouver area. It's a virtual
00:56:27.460town hall taking place on October 26th on the Sunday. Peter will be speaking as well as former
00:56:32.320MP Juanita Zerillo. Going forward, we're also going to be having a Vancouver Island town hall,
00:56:36.580a rural BC town hall, Alberta town hall, I think a Manitoba one is coming up, and then the rest of
00:56:41.840country so please keep keep in touch and keep an eye out for stuff that's happening in your local
00:56:46.320community because we're also doing in-person events which is crazy to say uh because everything's
00:56:50.720virtual nowadays but i'm looking at doing an in-person event out in winnipeg next month so
00:56:54.640if anyone listening is out there uh yeah hit us up and and we'll get connected great um thank you
00:57:01.280so much guys and uh i'll just shout out our super chats and throw you guys this one last question
00:57:06.800and then i'll let you go because you're probably very busy and i'm going to be going a few minutes
00:57:11.680It's over. I'm so sorry. So first of all, thank you so much, Barry Cook, who just generously
00:57:16.660complimented my analysis, which I appreciate very much. And we have a question from Victor
00:57:23.900Samosu, who says, how can we trust the NDP won't also drift right? As I'm assuming he means that
00:57:31.300in reference to how the Conservatives have gone far right and Carney's Liberals are effectively
00:57:35.980a progressive Conservative Party in the practice of the sorts of policies they're implementing.
00:57:41.680So he says, how can we trust the NDP won't also drift right when some of its own leadership candidates call left wing criticism, quote, purity tests?
00:57:50.520I'll leave it up to you guys who wants to take that. You can both give a little answer to it if you'd like.
00:57:55.040It's a concern that I've heard a lot from folks about the NDP, about a concern of a centrist drift.
00:58:01.060Yeah, in all my organizing before and during the work I'm doing with NDP now,
00:58:06.180I lead with being anti-racist, feminist, decolonial, accessible and pro-queer rights and
00:58:13.380all those things. And I think it's not just a cherry on top kind of thing, it's fundamental
00:58:18.580to being a progressive and leftist party. And so I personally, we put out a statement,
00:58:24.500Reclaim Canada's NDP put out a statement about this whole identity politics
00:58:28.020narrative that we can somehow blame the party's shortcomings and that we should
00:58:34.140shift away from identifying with marginalized communities and their fight for justice. And I
00:58:38.900wholeheartedly disagree. And I've told this directly to the team of this one specific
00:58:43.480leadership candidate, and it's an ongoing conversation. I think we just need to be
00:58:46.920able to control that narrative. I think we want to keep the window of discussion on the par of
00:58:52.880being an inclusive party. Like that's like the bare minimum opinion. And I think hopefully the
00:58:57.900work that I'm doing and that everyone else is doing, we'll make sure that we can ensure that
00:59:02.140this doesn't happen. And so if you're worried about the party, about the NDP drifting right,
00:59:06.880or abandoning marginalized communities, that's a super fair concern to have. My biggest suggestion
00:59:12.160would be to get involved and make sure it doesn't happen yourself and work directly against it.
00:59:18.000The NDP has to be resolutely anti-hate at a time when the far right is using hate
00:59:23.780as a mobilizing tool. And that means being against misogyny and homophobia and transphobia,
00:59:31.640Islamophobia, anti-Semitism, racism, all of those elements, we have to stand with marginalized
00:59:37.600communities because that is the essence of our being. But at the same time, we need to mobilize
00:59:44.440the grassroots. And that's where I think I'm confident that we're not going to see a slide
00:59:49.440to the right or or this idea of centrism when you talk to NDP members both ones that are in our
00:59:57.800party and those that are coming back they are resolutely progressive and resolutely anti-hate
01:00:04.840and so I think the the bulwark is having more of that grassroots democracy within our party
01:00:11.900that will assure that we be the movement that we believe most Canadians want to see
01:00:18.940resolutely and courageously democratically on the left.
01:00:24.980Great. Well, thank you so much, you guys, for this time today. And I have to say, as I was
01:00:29.300researching for this interview and looking at the efforts you guys are undertaking, there was a
01:00:35.220little bit of excitement in the air just at the prospect of any political party listening so
01:00:40.880openly to what Canada wants from them in the face of such a dramatic sort of shattering
01:00:48.000the idea that that you might rebuild with uh real and true feedback from canadians is i think a
01:00:55.580really positive thing for democracy um no matter where you stand politically and uh it's exciting
01:01:01.400it's an exciting time so thank you so much for your time thank you for coming on the show and
01:01:06.160i hope to speak with you again soon and uh good luck with your efforts thank you for everything
01:01:11.500you do, Rachel. Yeah, thank you for being a real bulwark for democracy and against hate
01:01:17.980and disinformation. Thank you so much. Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Bubble
01:01:30.340Pop. I'm Rachel Gilmore, your least favorite person's least favorite journalist. If you enjoyed
01:01:34.740this episode, consider subscribing on YouTube, Patreon, Substack, or wherever you like to listen.
01:01:39.900You can also find me on TikTok, Instagram, Twitch, and Blue Sky.
01:01:44.200I'd like to give a special thank you to Hans Vivian Wenzel for making the incredibly groovy