Bubble Pop with Rachel Gilmore - September 26, 2025


Far-right extremism in...Canada? Bubble Pop with Rachel Gilmore (feat. Evan Balgord)


Episode Stats


Length

49 minutes

Words per minute

163.66

Word count

8,109

Sentence count

275

Harmful content

Toxicity

12

sentences flagged

Hate speech

16

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Hello, I'm Rachel Gilmore, your least favorite person's least favorite journalist. Welcome to
00:00:11.820 Bubble Pop. It's the weekly show where we talk about some of the biggest headlines and juiciest
00:00:16.820 news tidbits so you don't have to doom scroll. And for season two, as you can tell by me
00:00:22.920 immediately stumbling on my words, we're doing it live, baby. So just a reminder that if you
00:00:28.560 want to support the show, you can subscribe on Patreon, Substack, and YouTube, as well as
00:00:33.480 wherever you like to listen. You can also use the super chat function on YouTube while we're live
00:00:38.900 to ask questions, and we'll do our best to answer them at the end of the episode, provided they're
00:00:44.260 not inappropriate. Now let's pop your bubble. Today, we're talking about far-right extremism,
00:00:51.340 from those weird little fight clubs to attempts to repackage mass deportations using more
00:00:56.860 politically palatable language and to help me do it we're chatting with one of the country's
00:01:02.540 foremost experts in far-right extremism evan balgord is the executive director of the canadian
00:01:08.300 anti-hate network one of the country's top non-profits that exposes hate and extremism evan
00:01:16.060 feels like there's not that much going on this week i know it's so boring and slow yeah
00:01:20.540 Well, thank you for being my guinea pig for my first ever live episode.
00:01:25.920 It's very exciting.
00:01:28.040 Yeah, happy to do it.
00:01:29.980 Yeah, I appreciate it.
00:01:32.280 So we have some pretty chilling exclusive audio from the Canadian Anti-Hate Network that we will be reacting to live during this episode.
00:01:41.080 It's from some extremist Twitter spaces where they really revealed a lot.
00:01:46.300 These guys aren't as slick as they think they are.
00:01:49.120 So this audio is pretty revealing in my opinion.
00:01:52.020 But before we touch on that, I want to set the scene for our listeners.
00:01:55.900 So as a very basic first question, Evan, can you give us a sense of the far right extremist
00:02:02.860 landscape in Canada?
00:02:04.300 Like, who is it?
00:02:05.700 What is it?
00:02:06.400 And how has it shifted in recent months and years?
00:02:10.940 Sure.
00:02:11.400 So I've been following this for about 10 years.
00:02:13.520 The organization's been around for almost eight years now, and a lot's changed in that
00:02:17.900 time.
00:02:19.220 And I think the biggest new change that I can think of is the kind of unification or
00:02:24.520 consolidation of white nationalists in Canada.
00:02:29.240 So there used to be all sorts of groups, all sorts of names.
00:02:32.760 There'd be a lot of infighting, groups would pop up, go defunct, people would move between
00:02:37.280 groups.
00:02:37.960 That was the natural state of affairs.
00:02:39.740 And over the last year or so, that's kind of changed. So I'm sure many of your listeners and
00:02:46.780 viewers know about Diagalon. But you know, this is a collection of streamers that popped up many
00:02:52.560 years ago. And they would look at news of the day and give, you know, racist and anti-Semitic
00:02:58.600 reactions to it. And when they were doing this, they built they built an audience and some of
00:03:03.660 streams will have views in the tens of thousands they weren't content just to do that they started
00:03:11.500 up a more militant branch they called second sons canada now that's doing training led by
00:03:17.980 veterans of the canadian armed forces and second sons canada is part of the broader active club
00:03:22.940 network which are these more militant groups of white nationalists and sometimes neo-nazis
00:03:28.620 who get together to train, do fitness, but also to do mixed martial arts.
00:03:34.220 And more recently, there's been another organization that's popped up that's federally
00:03:38.880 incorporated called the Dominion Society of Canada. And now they're like the political wing.
00:03:44.040 So if Diagalon is content creators, propaganda, Second Son Canada is the militant wing,
00:03:50.320 and the Dominion Society of Canada is the political wing, and they lay out their agenda
00:03:54.200 quite clearly that they want to criticize and control the Conservative Party of Canada
00:03:58.620 so that their people, and this is them saying it, not me making a wild allegation, they're saying it
00:04:04.020 so that their people on the inside of the Conservative Party of Canada can use the space
00:04:09.580 that they create. They really want them to adopt a more racist immigration platform as like the
00:04:16.280 main platform, the Conservative Party of Canada. So the white nationalist movement in Canada,
00:04:20.500 larger than it's, larger than it's ever been, has a militant wing with chapters across the
00:04:26.540 country, and has a specific political agenda. So this white nationalist movement, you know,
00:04:32.420 this is sort of, if that's not all of the far right, you know, there's still the convoy types
00:04:37.320 who are, you know, waiting to be engaged, some of them are doing like political workshops,
00:04:41.740 and targeting local races, like trying to become like school board trustees, and city councillors.
00:04:47.740 So there's still the broader far-right movement that's going on. But the big change is the
00:04:52.620 unification of the white nationalist movement. Wow. Yeah, it's startling. You know, last time
00:04:59.780 I had you on, we were talking about all of this. And it's fascinating to see how even in the months
00:05:06.760 since your last appearance on Bubble Pop, there's been even more of a shift. And one of those is
00:05:13.080 what you mentioned about the growing offline organization, specifically with respect to these
00:05:20.100 active clubs. So we're going to touch on the Dominion Society and the remigration sort of
00:05:26.680 political arm and the audio that proves what you were just saying. But before we do that,
00:05:34.120 can you tell our listeners about this more militant arm? Like, what is an active club?
00:05:39.840 Right. So an active club is, you can think of like different variations of white nationalism. It's how the white nationalists talk about this themselves. They'll say like white nationalism 1.0 was what you think about when you think of like your daddies or your granddaddies, like skinhead Nazis, right? Boneheads.
00:06:01.580 uh white nationalism 2.0 was the alt-right movement so it was these extremely online
00:06:08.760 uh young men uh who would create memes really uh galvanized around gamergate and the uh the
00:06:15.820 presidency of donald trump and it sort of culminated in um charlottesville many of
00:06:23.420 the figures that are now associated with the alt-right have uh they've certainly already
00:06:28.440 sort of had their day in the sun and they're on the wane, right? Like a lot of these, the more
00:06:31.840 prominent figures like Richard Spencer and stuff aren't popular or really that influential anymore.
00:06:37.760 And also seen as very cringe, you know, extremely online, seem like they're not serious. They don't
00:06:43.500 go out in the real world and do stuff. So that's when we got to white nationalism 3.0 and the
00:06:48.300 active clubs. It was a response to the alt-right. And the idea was we're going to get people
00:06:52.900 offline. We're going to meet up in person and we're going to start training and preparing
00:06:58.200 and and still advancing kind of the same political agenda where they want to have their their white
00:07:03.720 ethnostate you know majority uh super majority white population countries and what have you
00:07:07.800 um the active club model is now um pretty popular across the united states canada and europe
00:07:15.280 where they are a bit more closed-knit a bit more careful about how they recruit um and they'll go
00:07:22.460 into the woods and do training sometimes that training is is more militant sometimes it's more
00:07:27.160 on the side of like a bunch of guys getting together to punch each other in shorts like
00:07:30.920 doing mma stuff um yeah it is a little embarrassing um but the problem is of course when when it's
00:07:43.320 not funny anymore what we've seen groups following the active club models who are also based off of
00:07:47.840 more militant neo-nazi organizing elsewhere um that has been violent so you know there's certain
00:07:52.880 a celebration and glorification of violence. And sometimes it's more than just these guys
00:07:58.980 punching each other in shorts. Right. Right. And we saw an example of, you know, one of these
00:08:06.160 active clubs doing sort of a public demonstration, you know, Diaglon, who, you know, I think we both
00:08:13.360 remember, as you already mentioned, when they were just claiming to be comedians and live streamers.
00:08:19.120 But they gathered in, and I'll pull up an article for anyone watching on video to take a peek at here. They gathered in the Niagara area to do this sort of offline, or sorry, yeah, offline display of force and numbers where they just yelled a bunch of stuff and did these sort of pseudo military drills.
00:08:42.080 So what's going on there?
00:08:46.280 Like, what has changed within Diagalon to go from this sort of online live streamer, you know, pretending to just be comedians and telling you it's a meme whenever you suggested something more serious to them taking it clearly much more seriously and trying to do these intimidating gatherings in public?
00:09:08.680 so the whole we're just comedians it's just a meme thing uh in my opinion that was never
00:09:15.420 really true right um when you watch the streams um i don't know what kind of humor appeals to
00:09:22.680 different kind of people but uh i take jeremy mckenzie at face value uh when he says you know
00:09:30.480 horrifically racist things and anti-semitic things i take him at face value when he does
00:09:35.840 those things. Or when he yells gun or rope when he is talking about his perceived political enemies,
00:09:40.840 right? There is not a world in which presenting yourself like that to this audience is a joke.
00:09:49.340 In terms of like, when did they get expressly political? Hard to say. We know during their
00:09:54.960 tour across the country, I believe there was like a leaked audio clip or something of one of their
00:10:01.120 meetings where i think it was derek who's another one of their live streamers uh was thank you for
00:10:08.560 popping that up but was talking about how you know it started as a joke but now it's not a joke
00:10:12.640 because they realize that um they're being discussed politically by political people um
00:10:21.040 so at what point they they decided that's what they want to do i i don't know um if i do want
00:10:26.480 want to speculate though as to why they're becoming more emboldened um jeremy was facing a slew of
00:10:33.160 charges uh of which i think almost all or all of them were um were dropped or dismissed or or what
00:10:40.180 have you i'm not gonna get the legal language exactly right while we're live but all of the
00:10:43.840 charges um to the best of my recollection have gone away and i saw jeremy after that period of
00:10:51.080 time i think that that was emboldening i think after years of realizing that they're not facing
00:10:55.780 very significant opposition, but also that they're not facing sort of any legal consequences
00:11:06.260 and the government isn't paying them the attention that perhaps it should.
00:11:13.220 I think that they've become emboldened because of the lack of resistance, but I also think that
00:11:17.920 they're getting overconfident for a number of reasons and that their belief that there will
00:11:22.420 be no consequences, will be tested. Interesting. So that's sort of the more militant side of
00:11:31.640 things, right? But as you mentioned, there's also this sort of growing political side. And I have
00:11:38.540 to say this has really struck me. And I know that you guys have been preoccupied with this at the
00:11:43.420 Canadian Anti-Hate Network. You published a really great piece recently on this question, which is
00:11:49.040 the language of re-migration being used to sort of normalize some of this far-right rhetoric in the
00:11:57.360 mainstream. It actually seems to be, unfortunately, working in some countries like in the U.S.
00:12:06.100 and in Europe as well. Why do you think that is? Why is this such an effective tactic?
00:12:13.880 it like re-migration the concept is nothing new um the word may be newer but the concept's nothing
00:12:20.700 new um and i think we delve before we delve like exactly what re-migration is well actually i think
00:12:26.700 we have to right so re-migration being the idea that that um stopping immigration isn't enough
00:12:33.160 um that in order to you know preserve a culture or identity of a country you need to send people
00:12:39.060 back um my people who've migrated their back to wherever they are right in order to create the 0.61
00:12:44.840 country that you want and i'm using very gentle language about it but like what we're talking
00:12:48.840 about is people who want countries like canada to be white and european a bunch of things we could
00:12:55.420 talk about there very little are they thinking about uh indigenous folks who were here for
00:12:59.640 generations previously and previously and previously and previously they literally say
00:13:03.160 on their website yeah they literally say on their website that they want to establish a sort of um
00:13:08.820 national identity uh predicated around being a uh like a bi-culture i think they said or
00:13:15.860 uh of english and french people and um yeah a christian nation like it's it's it's very
00:13:21.940 interesting it should be like 97 like white heritage canadian or something like that
00:13:28.340 um yeah so is that the dominion society or is that the movement more broadly i believe
00:13:34.180 i believe again because we're live it's very hard for me to check my notes yeah well maybe
00:13:38.020 just to be safe. I believe actually it's a recent Jeremy stream where he was saying his ideal
00:13:42.180 thing was like 97%. Okay. And just to give the listeners a little more context, because I was
00:13:48.440 sort of diving in deep before we went over the definition. You know, I've got some screenshots
00:13:55.460 here from the actual Dominion Society, which is the organization pushing the re-migration movement 0.86
00:14:02.600 in Canada. This is from their website, saying that the phase two of their plan is to remove the
00:14:08.700 illegitimate population, which they describe as achieving through the revocation of permanent
00:14:15.520 residency, as well as mass deportations, which includes, you know, a removal operation is how
00:14:22.580 they word it, targeting all temporary foreign workers, permanent residents, illegal migrants,
00:14:27.580 holders of expiring temporary visas as well. And then the third phase of this second phase
00:14:34.860 is a voluntary repatriation program is what they call it, which is where they want to establish a
00:14:42.160 federal program for citizens to renounce their Canadian citizenship and return to their country
00:14:48.040 of origin. They want to incentivize this and they claim it will be promoted as a quote,
00:14:53.420 peaceful non-punitive option for individuals with weak ties to Canada or enduring identification
00:14:59.580 with their country of origin so yeah I mean Evan is that sort of textbook um re-migration there
00:15:08.860 as we're seeing around the world so I mean Greg Wycliffe who's one of the um uh the leaders one
00:15:14.560 of the co-founders of the um Dominion Society of Canada I believe according to their their
00:15:19.140 incorporation paperwork um he has sort of said like racism is good and racism works because
00:15:25.060 in certain times and places people who advocate for immigration are talking about making conditions
00:15:29.460 for people who are not white and european um bad like like like discriminating against them
00:15:35.060 so that they want to leave and none of this is new right uh like a very brief and simple history
00:15:41.380 lesson um you know when before we got to the holocaust um nazi germany tried its best to get
00:15:48.180 rid of their jewish population by other ways right um so eichmann who would later become known as the
00:15:54.420 as the um i believe he was learned he was become known as the architect of the holocaust
00:15:59.860 he first created this office where previously in the german administration in nazi germany they
00:16:07.220 had all these different um offices that would have to process like the uh the emigration of
00:16:14.820 of a Jewish person. And they brought them all together so that a Jewish person could start at
00:16:20.340 like one side of the office and all the paperwork be done and then leave. And of course, during all 0.83
00:16:27.000 of this, they were dispossessing Jews of their property and taking everything that they had, 0.65
00:16:31.220 and in fact had to pay to leave. That's my understanding of it as well. But Eichmann
00:16:35.680 will also go around and threaten and harass the Jewish community, sometimes freezing their bank
00:16:39.580 accounts, unfreezing their bank accounts, setting quotas on them and saying, oh, things are going
00:16:44.140 be really especially really bad for you if you're not convincing your own uh members of the jewish
00:16:49.420 community to leave um so that's when when we're talking about re-migration the what then question
00:16:56.940 and the dominion society touched on some of it right okay so you're ending you know the you're
00:17:03.500 you're cutting off immigration and that's not enough for you because you know your goal is to
00:17:07.260 create this um super majority of white european people so that's not enough so what then right so 0.76
00:17:13.100 They're talking about finding ways to take away people's citizenship. 0.94
00:17:18.000 If that's not enough for you, what then?
00:17:20.160 If that's not enough for you, what then?
00:17:21.840 And like, how quickly are we getting into forced mass deportations?
00:17:26.220 And how do we make forced mass deportations happen when people live in communities? 0.76
00:17:30.460 You have to round them up, put them in concentration camps in order to force mass deport them.
00:17:34.740 And where do we go from there?
00:17:36.440 Right.
00:17:36.720 And we can see some of this happening in the United States right now.
00:17:39.600 And historically, we know where this goes.
00:17:43.100 Canada is a country a bit over 150 years old.
00:17:48.480 Two people ago, Canada did not exist. 1.00
00:17:52.400 Canada is a country of immigrants who have come where indigenous folks lived and genocided them. 0.99
00:18:00.140 And now it's on all of us to make this work as a multicultural and pluralistic society. 0.99
00:18:04.820 And we can, right? 0.99
00:18:06.820 That's my big existential gripe with these kind of white nationalists is why do they fatalistically think that multiculturalism can't work when, like, it's them who are the barrier to shit like this working? 0.97
00:18:21.280 You know, if we actually pulled together and found ways to live in a multicultural society, which, you know, is a bit of an experiment and we are figuring it out, but it is a wonderful experiment to be in. 0.98
00:18:34.760 it's a wonderful place to be in. And I think we could all be working towards it. I don't believe
00:18:39.600 in their fatalism, that, you know, multiculturalism is a bad thing and should be ended.
00:18:45.140 Yeah, yeah, of course. I mean, it's, it's a ridiculous notion that's rooted in them seeming 0.94
00:18:52.000 to require the sense of identity they get by virtue of the privilege granted to them because 0.96
00:18:57.500 of the skin that they were born in, in a society that is, in so many ways, racist. So it's just,
00:19:03.960 it's very sad to define yourself so entirely by something that you didn't earn and use it to
00:19:12.100 discriminate against others. So I feel like that was a pretty great overview of this concept. Now
00:19:20.560 the actual Dominion Society, I did want to ask you about what its sort of ties are because it's
00:19:29.460 doing this more political thing where it's claiming to have its members are claiming to
00:19:35.260 have access to politicians, but it's also reposting like the founder is reposting guys like Alex
00:19:43.020 Friend from Diagalon and telling people to follow, you know, the accounts that he creates
00:19:49.240 in between suspensions and giving that individual the number 88 for his membership. And for those
00:19:56.780 of you who don't know that in extreme right-wing and white nationalist circles is a dog whistle
00:20:02.860 for HH, for Heil Hitler, because H is the eighth letter of the alphabet. So 8-8. Yeah. So
00:20:11.940 are these guys doing a good job of pretending to be politically palatable? And could it succeed
00:20:22.000 regardless of that? I think they're going too fast, too far. I think it's going to bite them
00:20:27.660 in the ass. So when it comes to Daniel Tyree and the Dominion Society, they're also openly 1.00
00:20:37.160 retweeting or saying thank you or whatever to people who have just obviously Nazi handles on
00:20:41.540 social media. Yes. They have also explicitly said that they will not counter signal. And for those 0.57
00:20:48.740 you might not know what that word means it basically means like denounce um say anything
00:20:52.900 bad about so they they've also said in in their um in one of their spaces i believe one of their
00:20:59.940 spaces chats they said they wouldn't counter signal anybody who was um who was you know making
00:21:05.340 neo-nazi expressions right they've made it clear where they sort of stand on that and where they
00:21:10.300 stand in the ecosystem they believe they need to be a political face but they really want to push
00:21:14.160 things as far as they can to continue to push the Overton window, the idea of what's acceptable
00:21:19.180 in mainstream discourse. And in terms of the relationship with Diaglon and Second Sons Canada,
00:21:25.860 so I believe it was recently Jeremy and Vren say they are now pulling salaries from Second Sons
00:21:31.220 Canada, which is interesting because I'm not sure how they're incorporated. We'll find out.
00:21:36.280 But they've talked about how Daniel Tyree and the Main Society of Canada is now going to kind of
00:21:43.180 take over their political operations as the white nationalist network. So when you're asking about
00:21:50.240 like, what is the linkage? These are three arms of the same organization as far as we're concerned.
00:21:56.560 So funny, Canada's telecoms companies are, you know, three major companies in a trench coat
00:22:03.580 and our grocery stores and even our white nationalist groups. It's like, come on guys.
00:22:08.380 It's like the Walmart. Yeah, Diaklon has become the Walmart and white national. They've sort of 0.84
00:22:11.640 bullied anybody else out of the space or sort of taken it over even the active club networks which
00:22:16.600 predate second sons by a little bit um they're all cozy with um yeah that there's one large
00:22:25.320 white nationalist network in camden it's it's diagonal wow that's that's really concerning
00:22:30.700 because that seems like a level of organization that maybe doesn't necessarily exist in uh some
00:22:35.860 other countries to the same degree because they have this more disparate network um and you know
00:22:40.820 it leads to a lot of infighting um it is pretty unique uh yeah it's also um
00:22:47.220 could be a tactical mistake on their part uh because the the white nationalists and neo-nazis
00:22:53.140 historically right have always talked about um having smaller groups or having a movement
00:22:59.460 because it's harder to target them with like legal stuff um if if they're not a card-carrying group
00:23:05.140 if they have um if there's a bunch of them in different places right the white nationalist
00:23:09.700 movement all coming under one umbrella is almost a challenge to law enforcement and the government
00:23:14.320 being like, this is really low hanging fruit. If you guys can't accomplish this,
00:23:21.300 what are you even doing? Yeah. So I've got some clips that you actually, you guys at the Canadian
00:23:29.800 Anti-Hate Network obtained, and I want to play them for our listeners and we're going to react
00:23:38.220 to them and so there's two clips but they're sort of similar in nature um but for the first one it
00:23:45.540 is um this user off man on x speaking um can you just tell the audience who that is and and where
00:23:53.340 they're speaking like so that they understand the context of it so allegedly this in this individual
00:23:59.440 has already been identified on it by some i i don't know who made the original identification
00:24:04.500 off the top of my head, but allegedly this individual has been identified, and both in
00:24:09.940 the spaces and it correlates with this supposed identification. They claim to have previously
00:24:17.240 worked in a political capacity for the Conservative Party of British Columbia. They claim to be
00:24:25.200 connected with the Conservative Party of Canada, and they also make claims to have done some work
00:24:31.060 kind of surrounding the white house now i think a couple important things to note here um people
00:24:35.740 who work in politics tend to be braggadocious right tend to over inflate their their sense
00:24:42.340 of importance so we shouldn't necessarily take this person saying how much influence they have
00:24:48.560 we shouldn't necessarily take that at face value however um i do believe part of it um and i would
00:24:57.120 say that, perhaps it's in the clips we're going to be listening to, but he claims to have insider
00:25:03.700 knowledge from the Conservative Party of Canada, claims to know that the Conservative Party of
00:25:08.780 Canada is going to make some upcoming changes to MPs being allowed to talk about immigration
00:25:15.960 and a new immigration policy. And they made those claims just a few days before exactly that
00:25:22.280 happened, right? So did they just hear some rumors that plenty of other people could have had?
00:25:27.120 Or do they actually have the connections that they claim to have?
00:25:29.920 I can't say definitively, but there's some smoke here, right?
00:25:34.240 And it's also a question of the Conservative Party of Canada.
00:25:38.080 These people say really nasty things about you as well.
00:25:41.380 And, you know, are there people in your party that you need to be watching out for who,
00:25:48.160 you know, agree with this kind of stuff?
00:25:51.120 It's a good question for them.
00:25:52.360 So, yeah, that's the context of like, who's one of the guys who's talking in the clip. So it's that guy. And then it's Daniel Tyree, who's the founder of the Dominion Society of Canada.
00:26:02.600 Yeah, so we'll play the first clip and maybe quickly chat about it, and then I'll play the Daniel Tyree clip. But yeah, so here is the Othman on X speaking about, well, bragging about his sort of agenda and, you know, his success in trying to share that agenda politically.
00:26:28.300 I've seen a little bit of disappointing things from the Politico side because I know that some
00:26:33.420 of these guys are playing rhetorical obfuscation. A lot of them agree with us. For example,
00:26:42.060 this morning I spoke to a really senior advisor to Pierre Poiliev, and he said that it took him
00:26:49.220 all hell's work to convince Pierre to finally take up anti-immigration status, and that's
00:26:55.460 happening you'll notice that cpc that the cpc caucus members of parliament today have begun
00:27:01.660 posting i think even yesterday i began posting anti-immigration rhetoric because they've finally
00:27:06.660 gotten permission to um in particular there was michelle michelle garnier i think her name is and
00:27:12.300 aaron gunn from bc and michelle is i believe an alberta mp so there is legitimate hope for political
00:27:20.760 solutions so michelle remble garner is apparently french now that's i know that's not the point of
00:27:28.600 the clip but that really got me you know for a guy pretending to know all this stuff about the party
00:27:33.400 um doesn't even know she's very much not french but uh
00:27:37.640 yeah what what did you think when you first heard him making those claims
00:27:41.400 it's tough you know because we have to do this work we're genuinely a non-partisan organization
00:27:52.020 to be clear what that means is that you know we do not support or work for or take direction from
00:27:57.680 any particular uh political party um so the question that poses is i would like to have
00:28:04.320 conversations in good faith with conservatives who do not agree uh with offman and mr tyree
00:28:12.020 And I think that there may be space to do so, but you can clearly see how, you know, if what he is saying is true, how the Conservative Party has a bit of a problem.
00:28:20.220 In the more of the spaces clip later, I don't know if we'll get to it or not, but he specifically calls out some people by name who do not agree with him in the Conservative Party of Canada.
00:28:31.680 So I do just want to be clear on this as well, that like he's not this is not representing all conservatives, but it's concerning that he feels that he has an end to the to the closest halls of power there.
00:28:42.100 Yeah, absolutely. So speaking of which, this next clip is the founder of the Dominion Society,
00:28:51.280 Daniel Tyree, sort of making similar claims and discussing tactics. He seems to disagree
00:28:58.740 slightly with Othman about the kinds of tactics they should be using, but largely they are sharing
00:29:04.540 the same goals from the sounds of it. It's a bit of a longer clip. It's about two minutes.
00:29:08.880 But yeah, let's give it a listen.
00:29:12.100 Yeah, exactly. Like, I come from a similar background. I've done this whole song and dance. And I agree, there's definitely our guys on the inside that are obfuscating their message. But like, we're so far beyond that. Like the situation in Canada is fucked. It's not, we're, we're not going to win by just like being silent and being like, Oh, leave this up to our guys on the inside.
00:29:37.180 those those guys often get you know they they start getting worried about losing their job if
00:29:44.720 they speak out they they have their own interests and they end up getting shuffled into comfortable
00:29:50.160 positions and accomplishing absolutely nothing even though they might have based conversations
00:29:55.080 with you behind the scenes like that's not enough anymore and that's also not what we're doing
00:30:00.020 we're straddling the divide between this quote unquote poster class and this quote unquote
00:30:06.460 professional class to move our more radical more correct position into the mainstream and put
00:30:13.900 direct pressure on these guys i am happy i agree i definitely agree pauliev is speaking out against
00:30:20.540 immigration finally he's still not doing so very effectively he's still getting distracted by all
00:30:26.620 sorts of other issues and we're going to criticize him every single day until he does better and
00:30:31.580 better and better and keep in mind we're not the ones that started fights with these professional
00:30:37.500 class and and really i didn't get that much blowback from those guys i got blowback from
00:30:42.140 robin skies who's not working in politics anymore i got blowback from brian burghette who's a failed
00:30:48.540 candidate for the conservative party of british columbia i got pushed back by uh alex brown he's
00:30:54.380 He's probably the closest we could throw into this professional politico class.
00:31:01.740 If there are our guys on the inside, and I know there are, I talk to them.
00:31:06.480 They're not the ones out here counter signaling me because they realize that I'm pushing things in the right direction.
00:31:12.480 The guys on this call are pushing things in the right direction.
00:31:15.300 So we don't win by fighting with each other.
00:31:17.220 We win by them ignoring us and letting us push the Overton window while they take advantage of the space we create.
00:31:27.860 So there you have it. I mean, first thoughts on that?
00:31:32.340 I mean, it's really helpful that they lay it out.
00:31:34.900 I know.
00:31:37.200 It's like one of those two villains that does the monologue right before they attack the good guy and they detail their whole dastardly plan.
00:31:45.420 And then the good guy's like, okay, well, now I know exactly how to counter you.
00:31:50.000 Makes it so much easier to report on, makes it so much easier to have conversations with
00:31:53.680 people who matter about this stuff.
00:31:56.220 A couple of things I'll point out there, right?
00:31:58.200 The term rhetorical obfuscation, what they're both arguing for here is the use of deceit
00:32:04.400 in hiding their ultimate ends.
00:32:07.100 But then they tell us they're doing it, which isn't particularly smart.
00:32:10.020 um the strategy being they're going to push very hard from the outside to try to make change
00:32:16.180 on the inside of politics um and you know tyree's pointing out you know they're not
00:32:22.300 counter signaling me the people that he claims to know sort of inside the political establishment
00:32:26.900 of the conservative party of canada um yeah he he is again he's claiming a tie there
00:32:33.220 yeah yeah and you know you mentioned this earlier him sort of highlighting that there
00:32:39.360 are also people in the party who disagree with what they're doing um and i think it's a really
00:32:45.040 important point and it speaks to how these guys as you mentioned feel about these parties they
00:32:50.160 they really seem to talk about them entirely as if they're using them um you know we heard
00:32:55.760 the same thing from diagonal uh when they were talking about considering um using pierre poliev
00:33:02.960 they never claimed to like him um but they would say oh i think he's such a weasel that we can use
00:33:08.800 him. That was sort of how they spoke about him. So it's really disrespectful. And it is ultimately
00:33:14.520 a very, very cynical politics too, where they want to take advantage of those who they claim
00:33:22.020 are within the party who are willing to pretend not to have this more radical agenda in order to
00:33:29.360 shift, as he says, the Overton window, which is the sort of the concept of what is allowed in
00:33:37.320 polite political discourse, what is accepted political discourse in a society, they want to
00:33:41.680 shift it in a direction where the kinds of policies that they want to see enacted are politically
00:33:46.780 acceptable. And we're seeing that happen in the United States right now. I mean, that's
00:33:52.200 the Overton window shift in action. And that was sort of the last thing that I wanted to touch on
00:33:58.860 with you, which is Trump's executive order about Antifa, which effectively tries to quash something
00:34:06.800 that is an ideology, a philosophy of anti-fascism, of basically opposing guys like what you just
00:34:14.960 listened to. So I find that terrifying. And we're seeing the Canadian right wing try to use this
00:34:22.620 moment too. So can we talk a little bit about that? I mean, how are you seeing that happen
00:34:28.280 here at home? Sure. So we are, I mean, I guess we're not the only nonprofit in Canada that
00:34:37.580 would consider itself like anti-racist and anti-fascist, right? I think a lot of good
00:34:41.140 hearted nonprofits would consider themselves that. We are one of the only nonprofits in Canada
00:34:47.420 that it's right on our about us page. It's really funny. We're having hit articles written about us
00:34:52.500 right now about like, oh, the Canadian anti-hit network is Antifa. It's like, it's been on our
00:34:56.480 about us page for damn nearly eight years wow you really got us um they opposed fascism oh my god
00:35:04.240 yeah and like what does that mean to us right um i want to have a pluralistic and multicultural 0.70
00:35:10.800 democracy um you know i want uh i want a world and i want a country where people you know aren't
00:35:18.220 harassed uh threatened or hurt because of you know what their identity happens to be the god they pray
00:35:24.480 to the skin color they have, like, I don't want people to be hurt on that basis. I want a world
00:35:28.960 where everybody can live and adjust an inclusive society where everybody has, you know, economic
00:35:34.740 opportunities. I want a fair country for everybody. And it's on that basis that that I am
00:35:42.840 anti fascist, because that's the opposite of what fascists want. And when we're talking about who
00:35:47.300 fascists are and what anti-fascism is, not everybody that we oppose, I would label capital
00:35:54.860 F fascist, right? When we're talking about doing anti-fascism, it also involves anti-racism. And
00:35:59.900 generally speaking, it means that, you know, we are reporting on, because we're an anti-fascist
00:36:04.620 journalism organization primarily, but we're reporting on groups, movements, networks that
00:36:11.340 harbor racism and other forms of hate and express that and say and do things that are
00:36:17.240 incompatible with the pluralistic and multicultural democracies like that's what anti-fascism as an
00:36:21.880 idea ideology is to us um and it's the idea that um that the sort of racist and anti-democratic
00:36:29.040 forces out there um need to be stopped um and yes you got me i am anti-fascist um we're seeing right
00:36:37.180 now though multiple sort of smear pieces being written um we're seeing uh you know there was a
00:36:42.780 Conservative MP that challenged our funding in the House of Commons inaccurately, right?
00:36:51.580 Yeah, it was Rachel Thomas who at the Canadian Heritage Committee, and we just sort of, I think
00:36:58.440 you and I both just saw this this morning. It's Friday, September 26th. So, you know, we're kind
00:37:05.420 of jumping on this last second, but the gist of what she said was she claimed that you guys
00:37:09.960 report on Catholics and people who identify as pro-life, which I think you can speak to
00:37:16.260 why that's a misrepresentation completely of an aspect of a job posting. And she also said that
00:37:23.320 you are furthering or spurring greater polarization and arguably hate in this country by choosing to
00:37:27.900 pick on certain groups of people. So can you just respond to her claims? It was just so ridiculous.
00:37:34.620 Yeah. So let's talk about a second where it's coming from, because then I can get the bucket. 0.95
00:37:39.960 Um, so where that's coming from is because we've done reporting on, uh, these kind of like paired
00:37:45.560 organizations called Campaign Life Coalition and LifeSite News. Um, and, uh, LifeSite News
00:37:53.040 has published anti-Semitic content. Uh, it celebrated foreign laws, which seek to punish 0.51
00:37:58.280 gay people with the death penalty. It called in its readers to participate in January, the January 0.55
00:38:03.320 6th insurrection attempt. And according to the Institute for Strategic Dialogue's briefing paper
00:38:08.340 on online domestic extremism in Canada.
00:38:11.100 It's the second most linked to news sites
00:38:14.960 by their definition of Canadian domestic extremists.
00:38:18.360 So we've reported on LifeSite News before
00:38:21.480 for some of the far-right positions that they have taken.
00:38:25.600 And they've said that we are hating Catholics
00:38:29.260 and people who are pro-life.
00:38:30.860 That's not it.
00:38:31.520 We report on Christian nationalists.
00:38:33.380 And Christian nationalism is a belief
00:38:34.940 that Canada and the United States are, uh, founded based on their rigid interpretations
00:38:43.020 of Christian law. And these are the kind of Christians who, um, yes, they, they oppose, 0.73
00:38:48.420 uh, women's right to healthcare. Um, they oppose, um, uh, queer people being able to get married.
00:38:55.540 Um, they don't want references to healthy, happy queer relationships, uh, in schools or anywhere
00:39:02.760 else in public life. In the United States, I want to be very clear for legal purposes here. I want
00:39:08.920 to be extremely clear that I'm not referring to CLC and LifeSite News here. I'm referring to
00:39:12.280 Christian nationalism generally. But in the United States, Christian nationalism and nationalists go
00:39:17.020 further. They don't want women to be able to vote. Several of them do not want women to be able to
00:39:22.700 say no to their husbands when it comes to sex. And what I mean is marital rape. They want to 0.96
00:39:27.040 legalized parental rape. Um, and so Christian nationalism is not all Catholics and it's not 0.93
00:39:34.780 even all people who are, who are quote unquote pro-life. And I think that when, um, when LifeSite
00:39:40.720 News and Campaign Life Coalition, uh, or when this MP, um, says that when we're reporting on
00:39:46.880 Christian nationalism, we're actually reporting on Catholics is slandering Catholics, right? Like
00:39:51.500 not all Catholics are that kind of right-wing extremist, and it's not fair to categorize them
00:39:57.280 that way. And I'd go further to say, you know, when LifeSite News is describing itself as
00:40:01.280 Catholic, they also advance this position, which is a belief that the Pope isn't actually the real
00:40:11.120 Pope, which is a position that I understand some Catholics find heretical. So not even all
00:40:15.220 Catholics would necessarily consider LifeSite News and Campaign Life Coalition to be Catholic
00:40:20.000 if they if they hold that view um so that miss like that total misconception uh and how this
00:40:27.940 organization describes itself um when we write something about life site news or campaign life
00:40:33.340 life coalition within like 12 to 24 hours we get a media request from black locks and for those
00:40:39.760 people who don't know uh black locks is this organization that reports on things going on
00:40:45.140 on parliament hill um they i mean but when i was when i was a baby journalist i thought they were
00:40:52.960 really cool i'm like they're really going after people they're filing all these atip requests
00:40:56.880 then responding to media requests from them in my opinion it's in such bad faith right like in my
00:41:02.360 opinion they are like the rebel news of reporting on parliament hill stuff um so they're the ones
00:41:08.860 who recently reported that we target catholics and people who are pro-life which again as i have
00:41:13.700 just described is not true. But that was repeated now by this conservative MP in an attempt to
00:41:20.920 target our funding. So, you know, it's very frustrating. We've talked about this before,
00:41:26.760 how, you know, there's such a double standard that we hold ourselves to versus folks who are
00:41:32.420 more right, far right leaning, how, you know, the ethics that we follow, the legal vetting we do of
00:41:39.100 our stories and things like that, you know, the standards we hold ourselves to are quite high.
00:41:43.700 And then when you're on the receiving end of it, it wasn't just Black Locks now, it was June, I was writing a second article about us trying to tie us to Antifa and this terrorist designation.
00:41:55.060 But I made it extremely clear to them, and they hadn't published it in their article, that, you know, we have never endorsed, aided, or funded terrorism, violence, or criminal activity.
00:42:05.560 In fact, in our 40 Ways Guide, we explicitly say that we do not support that, and that's sort of our flagship learning material.
00:42:12.060 um and any allegation that we have is a lie it is defamatory um and it's not true and it and that's
00:42:21.420 that's that but you know we have to spend uh all day because of some of these um these far-right
00:42:28.900 actors and it's not just the the pseudo media looks as well um but we have to spend all day
00:42:33.720 just like um correcting lies yeah what does it tell you about i don't know i just i feel like
00:42:43.400 it's very revealing when when something is clearly not accurate and despite clarifications
00:42:49.880 that something's not accurate when individuals continue to publish or pursue attacks on your
00:42:57.560 organization the canadian anti-hate network based on those bad faith attacks um what does that tell
00:43:05.000 you about their motivations i know you can only speculate and you don't know for a fact but but
00:43:11.400 what do you think when you face these attacks what does it tell you about your own work yeah so i'll
00:43:18.920 speak generally to make it clear that i'm not specifically talking about lsn clc um juno or
00:43:25.560 black logs here i'll just speak generally about um about the far eight ecosystem um
00:43:33.640 they don't like being reported on by us uh you know clearly you know they see us as an obstacle
00:43:39.240 to uh what they want to accomplish um and that is uh credit to our good work in my opinion
00:43:45.960 and i think we have done good work you know like nearly 700 articles eight years operating
00:43:50.040 shut down multiple neo-nazi groups i think we've done good work and you know it's a very similar
00:43:56.120 motivation i think to why did trump designate antifa a terrorist organization well first off
00:44:00.920 there's no one group that is antifa and the anti-fascist ideology doesn't have any sort of
00:44:07.160 hierarchical leadership structure there's no such thing as a card-carrying member a group can
00:44:12.840 consider itself an anti-fascist group and part of the anti-fascist movement you know there's no
00:44:16.840 gatekeeping there. And saying that the anti-fascist movement is violent is asinine. It's like saying 0.97
00:44:25.040 the environmental movement is criminal because some people have shut down a pipeline somewhere
00:44:28.480 else. It's like saying people who believe in democracy or consider themselves part of a
00:44:32.740 pro-democracy movement are pro-violence because people have done coups in order to establish a
00:44:38.540 democratic government somewhere. It's like saying that the civil rights movement was violent
00:44:46.600 because of the actions of the Black Panthers alone and also getting half of your facts wrong
00:44:51.780 about the Black Panthers. So, you know, you're making statements about a very large and complex
00:44:59.500 social movement with, you know, multiple beliefs and groups that are part of it. So what is Trump
00:45:04.900 doing when he designates Antifa, you know, an entire ideology to be like a terrorist organization
00:45:11.400 um is pretty simple he's trying to scare people and use the the the weight of the u.s government
00:45:20.540 to crack down on the people who resist what his uh regime is trying to do to to his critics right
00:45:27.440 like it is um it is anti-democratic it is fascist uh it is simply trying to shut down dissent and
00:45:33.280 clear a path uh for carrying out their ultimate goals so yes that is what the far-right movement
00:45:38.500 in Canada is trying to do as well when it comes to leveraging or trying to leverage Trump's Antifa
00:45:44.140 designation. They are trying to clear their opposition of their path so that they can enact
00:45:48.940 their racist agenda, including of which, as we talked about, is the mass deportation
00:45:56.160 of people. And here I am quoting Daniel Tyree, who are not, quote, white heritage Canadians.
00:46:00.940 you know it's the hypocrisy of it always just makes me i mean i i was on rito street during
00:46:12.940 the convoy hearing people yell about freedom and it is just it's kind of shocking to me i mean it's
00:46:21.160 not i wish it was shocking to me um but but the hypocrisy is quite stunning to be comfortable
00:46:29.040 with this while claiming to speak for freedom, being fine with these bad faith attacks on
00:46:36.200 critics of your ideology while claiming to stand for freedom. It's so frustrating and belies,
00:46:46.300 I think, a lot of the true natures of these sorts of ideologies, which is that they're
00:46:52.840 not about freedom, like they like to say, or anything of the sort. They're actually just
00:46:58.700 about consolidation of power to enact their specific, often quite unpleasant and hateful
00:47:07.880 agendas. So I don't know, it's, it's pretty, pretty ridiculous. All right, Evan, I think 0.96
00:47:14.040 that's all the questions that I had for you today. We do take some, I can throw some super
00:47:22.780 chat questions at Evan if anyone has any. Otherwise, we might have time for a few just
00:47:28.920 general questions if someone wants to, if you guys have any you want to throw in the chat.
00:47:35.000 Maybe while we wait for those to roll in, Evan, if people want to keep up with your work,
00:47:39.420 where can they do that? Yep. So we're on Blue Sky at AntiHateCA, you know, all one word.
00:47:45.820 our website, anti-hate.ca. We have a newsletter that'll keep you up to date on some of the
00:47:53.900 articles that we publish. And we'd love a few more subscribers. That'd be great if you'd like
00:47:59.160 to follow our work. Yeah, you guys should definitely subscribe. Okay, great. I don't
00:48:04.960 think we have any questions right now. So we'll probably leave it there for today. Thank you so
00:48:11.680 much again for being my guinea pig with this first live episode. I am so excited to be doing
00:48:18.600 this format. It was really fun and hopefully engaging for you guys too. And as always,
00:48:24.240 these episodes will be posted for you to listen to later as well. But otherwise, I will see you
00:48:31.340 guys next week at 12 p.m. Eastern for our next episode. And Evan, thank you again so much for
00:48:38.260 joining me on Bubble Pop. Thank you for having me. I'm going to go touch grass and have a nice
00:48:43.080 weekend. I hope you do too. That sounds amazing. Thank you for listening to this week's episode
00:48:53.780 of Bubble Pop. I'm Rachel Gilmore, your least favorite person's least favorite journalist.
00:48:58.280 If you enjoyed this episode, consider subscribing on YouTube, Patreon, Substack, or wherever you
00:49:03.400 like to listen. You can also find me on TikTok, Instagram, Twitch, and Blue Sky. I'd like to give
00:49:08.820 a special thank you to Hans Vivian Wenzel for making the incredibly groovy music for Bubble
00:49:13.300 Pop. You can find more of his stuff on Spotify under the artist's name Hans. That's a lowercase
00:49:18.240 H with an exclamation mark. Thank you again for spending this time with me. This is my dream job.
00:49:24.220 I know I say that every week, but that's because it's true every week and I couldn't do it for one
00:49:28.840 second without your support. So thank you and I'll see you next time.