00:05:45.640And I want to dig into that, you know, bigger tent question in a moment here.
00:05:49.920But first, I'd like to dig into a little bit of your proposed policies.
00:05:54.840And, you know, just answer the broader question, too, of, you know, the NDP's identity, and particularly in an era where, like, in the last election, the Conservatives really tried to eat you guys' lunch.
00:06:08.620Like, they went after those union votes, right?
00:06:11.100They went after that working class vote.
00:06:13.180And I, you know, so you've got some policies on your website already.
00:06:19.700They so far include a national housing emergency plan.
00:06:23.000that would just to name a few things and the corporate control of housing and introduce a
00:06:27.800renter's bill of rights um you also propose to rebuild the NDP to try to put power in the hands
00:06:34.840of the party's grassroots which has been um a big criticism that uh the party and a big conversation
00:06:40.960the party's been having internally to try to like fix it up so that you guys can win
00:06:44.880deal with those internal issues um and you've got a jobs plan that includes a community work
00:06:51.780placement program a mentorship network and more supports for skills training and education
00:06:56.760I couldn't help but notice when I was reading some of this and this obviously doesn't apply to
00:07:00.940all of the ideas you have here but there's definitely some overlap with some stuff that
00:07:06.420Carney has done like embracing modular housing and getting the government more involved in home
00:07:11.260building and I just wanted you to explain to the public like yeah you know obviously there's a
00:07:16.500concern about the conservatives eating the NDP's lunch but what are you doing to make sure that
00:07:20.660you were offering an option that is distinct enough from the Liberal Party as well.
00:07:25.480Well, I mean, Rachel, you know the deal. The Liberals love to run on our policies. They love
00:07:29.420to run on the progressive side of things. And then Mark Carney has shown that he's quite
00:07:33.720interested in governing from a much closer to the Conservative place, if not in an actual
00:07:40.240Conservative place. So for me, I mean, one of the things that has been most disappointing
00:07:45.140is that in April, Mark Carney promised double,
00:09:05.660that we are seeing from Danielle Smith,
00:09:07.120now Scott Moe, of course, Doug Ford, the healthcare system will be gone. And I think Canadians across
00:09:13.120the country know that New Democrats are the ones that, you know, we're the ones that got that
00:09:16.620healthcare system in place, we're the ones that are going to fight and protect it as well. I think
00:09:20.520those are some of the ways that we push back against the false narratives that Pierre Polyev
00:09:24.700and the Conservatives are putting forward. Yeah. And, you know, you mentioned how the Liberals
00:09:30.400sort of take your policies and run on them. But, but like, do you feel as though there's sort of
00:09:37.700this, I find a schism within the NDP that always emerges in these leadership races and when you
00:09:42.880guys have these internal discussions, right? And it's sort of the, the, well, actually, I think
00:09:49.200that what exemplifies it is the fact that you're backed by Rachel Notley, right? She was there at
00:09:54.080your announcement when you announced you're running for leader. She's the former NDP Alberta
00:09:58.720of premier for anyone watching who uh might not be aware uh her support of your campaign i think
00:10:04.320exemplifies the sort of big divide between you and your fellow front runner abby lewis who authored
00:10:11.100the leap manifesto which is something that notley repudiated and uh you know she called sort of
00:10:16.680naive and um yeah i i guess i wanted to ask you like where do you stand on this rift and like
00:10:26.740along the line of where the NDP should orient itself in terms of that, like, should it be more
00:10:33.840unabashedly left or should it, you know, maybe take some smaller swings, but would that, does
00:10:40.400that, is that more realistic? Does it make you more electable? That seems to be the debate that
00:10:44.200I constantly hear new Democrats having. Where do you land on that? And listen, I wouldn't say
00:10:49.360smaller swings. That's, that's not how I see it at all. I mean, I think we've got some really
00:10:53.820good progressive policies that that we're bringing out the the ones that are already up but we've
00:10:58.660also got ones that are coming in the coming days uh so i don't think those are small swings i think
00:11:02.760those are actually good solid policies that will make life for canadians better and i'm i mean
00:11:08.580obviously i'm extraordinarily proud that rachel notley has endorsed me that she has been she's
00:11:13.180been supporting me um you know you mentioned charlie angus and great it's i'm grateful that
00:11:17.360charlie uh has supported me as well um but i but i think the the goal of any political party has
00:11:23.180to be to win more seats. And, you know, the idea that we would attack the provincial versions of
00:11:29.720the NDP, the provincial parties of the NDP, is really problematic. You know, I think Wab Canoe
00:11:36.220is doing a wonderful job in Manitoba. You know, I think the fact that we are government in British
00:11:40.520Columbia, huge oppositions in Alberta and Saskatchewan, official oppositions in Ontario
00:11:44.400and Nova Scotia, the provincial parties are doing good work. They are making a real difference.
00:11:50.500So we shouldn't be giving conservatives and liberals a cudgel to hit each other with. You talked about the Leap Manifesto. I will say, when that was brought forward in Edmonton, there was no conversation with the environment minister at the time. None of those conversations happened.
00:12:08.220And it's just, I want to work with our parties.
00:12:12.540I want to work with all of those people in this country
00:12:14.520that want to make life better for Canadians.
00:12:32.060if we actually want to move a progressive agenda forward.
00:12:34.940Do you think that's sort of what Abby Lewis's campaign is doing, is picking that fight with those promises? And I'm curious whether you think that, like, you know, what could be characterized as big swings is maybe overly idealistic or unrealistic policymaking. Is that reflective of how you feel about those campaign promises?
00:12:54.500What I do think is that in the past that there have been folks that sort of moved towards the activist side of our party. And I love the activist side of our party. That's part of the party that I came from when I was younger. That's how I got into the NDP. It's very, very important.
00:13:10.880but but we have a obligation an urgency and an obligation to to act as if we want to get elected
00:13:19.840to put a plan in place to elect more new democrats you know i saw what happened when there were 25
00:13:25.700new democrats um in in um in ottawa the the difference we could make you know you you talk
00:13:32.080a little bit about the liberals you talk about the conservatives let's be very clear the liberals do
00:13:37.660nothing unless we force them to do it and right now in that house of commons we don't have enough
00:13:43.760new democrats to actually force the liberals to do the things that they are promising to canadians
00:13:48.580um you know again we we go back to this idea that that mark carney didn't bring in near enough
00:13:56.120support for housing the fact that danielle smith is actually breaking the law at the canada health
00:14:01.020act in this country and mark carney has said nothing you know despite the fact that she's
00:14:05.620attacked trans kids, despite the fact that she's attacked workers' rights. I look at the use of
00:14:12.180the notwithstanding clause against CUPW workers, against the cabin crew from Air Canada, the tax
00:14:19.280on workers' rights. That's why we need a strong new Democrat. If we don't party, if we don't
00:14:23.580actually win more seats, if we don't have the power to stop the Liberals from this wild swing
00:14:31.380to the right what are we doing you know we can yell into the abyss we can be the conscience of
00:14:36.420parliament we can we can be pure as driven snow um but but what are we doing if we're not actually
00:14:41.920getting people elected if you don't get people elected if you don't win you you can't accomplish
00:14:46.960anything you know you can't get things done um that that's i mean that's one of the messages
00:14:52.520you know we will hear the next election because we hear it every single election that that the
00:14:57.960Liberals will tell Canadians that you have to vote for the Liberals because they're the only ones that can beat the Conservatives.
00:15:02.920So plug your nose, vote for us, because, of course, you know, we can beat the Conservatives.
00:15:17.020You know, New Democrats beat Conservatives all across this country, and we can do it again.
00:15:21.400In fact, the reason there are so many Conservatives in Parliament right now is because people thought if they voted for the Liberals, they would stop the Conservatives and they ended up splitting the vote and the NDP lost their seats.
00:15:34.040It is fascinating how strategic voting always seems to mean just, you know, vote Liberal in any riding.
00:15:41.420It's funny. I think a lot of people maybe don't understand the concept of it, but it's also a tricky, I don't know, I wish we didn't have to do it.
00:15:47.660Electoral reform would be really nice.
00:15:50.020You know, I did want to ask you a little bit. One thing I always come back to that I wonder about when I look at the sort of electoral reality that the NDP is up against, because you hear a lot of the debate within the NDP falling back on.
00:16:08.900Well, you know, look at, as you said, the provinces that are actually getting things done, where NDP parties have like, or NDP has formed government party party, New Democrat party party, you know, where they have actually formed government.
00:16:27.200But one thing I noticed is that in a lot of those contexts, except for arguably Manitoba, a little bit less, but, you know, there isn't really a liberal party in those in those jurisdictions.
00:16:40.360I mean, in B.C., the Liberals are the Conservative Party.
00:16:44.800In Saskatchewan, there really isn't a Liberal Party.
00:16:49.500In Alberta, there isn't really a Liberal Party, provincially speaking.
00:16:54.040So there isn't that same sort of vote splitting happening.
00:16:58.060And my question, you know, and as a result, you know, those NDP parties can appeal to the liberal voters more so.
00:17:11.040And they tend to lean in that more sort of center left.
00:17:15.960But I'm curious, like, in the federal context, is that strategy able to play out in the same way as a result of the fact that the Liberals do exist and are strong on the federal stage?
00:17:29.240Like, you know, is that something that makes sense as a strategy to follow?
00:17:34.300Well, I think, I mean, I think look at the history of our country.
00:17:36.760we used to have provincial liberal parties. And there was a move away from the liberal parties
00:17:43.320because they were not providing that true progressive option. So I think, yeah, we've
00:17:49.120got liberal parties in some parts of the country, of course, but I think that the NDP had shown
00:17:52.860provincially that they were the best choice to beat the Conservatives. They were the party that
00:17:57.640can beat Conservatives. I mean, why would we not want to work with that messaging? Why would we
00:18:01.820not want to work with those parties that have proven that they are the choice if you want to
00:18:06.860stop a a far-right pierre poly of government if you want to stop conservatives across this country
00:18:12.200it is new democrats that do that you know danielle smith is making huge huge um damage to our to our
00:18:21.700entire country like i i honestly believe that and i know i'm in alberta and i know i'm invested in0.53
00:18:26.580what goes on in Alberta. My family is raising that. Those are precedent-setting swings that are
00:18:32.540hurting our constitution, that are hurting people across the country. And every one of those
00:18:37.040conservative premiers across the country is watching to see what she can get away with.
00:18:41.240You know, when you take the rights away of 51,000 teachers, you're basically saying,
00:18:45.980I can take the rights away from anyone anytime I want. So for me, yeah, like, of course,
00:18:51.040it is going to be the Alberta NDP that is going to beat Daniel Smith. But that's what's,
00:18:56.320that is happening where we're over the history of this country people have increasingly said
00:19:01.260these mushy middle liberals aren't the ones that can do it aren't the ones that can get it over
00:19:05.180the line um and i think that's something we should be telling canadians at the federal level too
00:19:09.800i'm curious how you see the ndp's place in you know politics like one thing i've asked some of
00:19:16.460the other contenders this as well um you know i i and you can argue about whether this is fair
00:19:21.660of the media, but it's just sort of the reality of the landscape and how, you know, the NDP can
00:19:27.100be framed. A lot of people were kind of laughing at Jagmeet Singh during the election campaign when
00:19:31.440he kept saying, I'm running to be prime minister, I'm running to be prime minister. Do you think
00:19:36.180that the NDP is a party that, like, do you view it as the conscience of parliament? Or do you view
00:19:45.580it as a party that one day could you know give us a prime minister um and is that day near or far
00:19:52.100so so there's a couple things there first of all i often think about rachel notley you know in 2015
00:19:57.960she had four seats there the alberta ndp had four seats and then in 2015 she became government um
00:20:04.000you know so sometimes things are not a steady you know sometimes there are there are big swings
00:20:08.940there um but the other thing is i am not running to be the prime minister right now i'm not i i
00:20:14.620we have seven seats you know we don't have party status like we need to be realistic we have many
00:20:19.980many things that need to be done to rebuild our party to rebuild trust with canadians uh but but
00:20:25.020i do want to build us towards a place you know there needs to be a plan for us to move from this
00:20:31.180and and i will say there's there's many steps and i don't think it's going to happen overnight and
00:20:35.820it's going to be a lot of work but we are a political party our goal is to win and our goal
00:20:41.420is to win government and and that's not going to happen today you will not hear me say i'm
00:20:45.500running to be prime minister but but but i will say that why would we not as a political party
00:20:53.580have the goal for our party to at one point be government you know we came very very close with
00:20:58.300jack layton there is no reason that the new democrats with the strong policies that we put
00:21:03.500forward with the strong candidates that we have across the country with the incredible members
00:21:07.500of parliament that we have that we cannot um form official opposition and then have a path towards
00:21:12.620forming government it's been done before yeah so it's a slow climb where you slowly uh like crabs
00:21:18.460in boiling water you get people used to the idea of the idp having more and more power that doesn't
00:21:23.420sound very appealing i think it sounds scary but it might be a better analogy yeah maybe i i feel
00:21:32.140like i've been using that one so often lately because of you know the state of the world but
00:21:35.980but yeah, we need, we need an optimistic version of it. Um, so I'd love to come back to, uh, you
00:21:43.880know, one thing that's sort of defined your campaign and I've noticed is a message that
00:21:47.540you're really putting out there a lot is this idea of a big table person. Like I have this
00:21:51.640visual I associate with you now of a massive table going outside from when you were young
00:21:57.480with like the door as one of the tables. I feel like you mentioned that, that you guys like
00:22:02.940literally took the door off and used it as a table or something am i misremembering that yeah no we
00:22:07.820totally did when i was growing up it was chaotic we just had it was christmas was chaotic yeah i
00:22:13.620have a lot of cousins too so i got it um but i i you know i wanted to ask you about that
00:22:21.240question within the party like how do you walk that line of welcoming everyone to the table
00:22:28.660but ensuring that you don't compromise any values like do you have red lines about who is welcome
00:22:35.520oh of course and what of course of course we would um listen what i said earlier when i was
00:22:41.100when i was talking about my dad i mean listen the story about the table on the for christmas dinner
00:22:45.540even this christmas we had we had 27 people in my kitchen which is not the very biggest kitchen in
00:22:51.560the world my turkey was literally 34 pounds like it was a giant giant giant bird um so so of course
00:23:01.320we've got red lines you know of course people that are hateful that are that are racist that are you
00:23:06.140know of course those people aren't welcome in our party but but the people that share our values and
00:23:10.380i honestly believe i mean i know i am an optimist but i honestly believe the vast majority of
00:23:16.080canadians the vast majority of people in this country you know they want a good health care
00:23:20.900system that protects everyone, regardless of their ability to pay. They want everyone in our home,
00:23:25.720in our country to have a home, you know, to have somewhere to sleep at night. I don't know a single
00:23:29.800person in Canada who likes what we see when we walk down the street and see encampments and
00:23:34.320folks living on the street. You know, the people that believe that climate change is real and want
00:23:39.680solutions, solutions that keep people working, solutions that, you know, protect our economy and
00:23:45.040protect jobs in our country. You know, every single person who looks at Canada's foreign
00:23:50.540affairs policies and things, we need to do better, we used to do better, we should do better.
00:23:55.240All of those people belong within our party. So when we talk about how Pierre Polyev is
00:24:00.380speaking to people and bringing them on side that should be our people, I want them back.
00:24:06.140I'm going to fight to get those folks back because Pierre Polyev is not going to help them.
00:24:11.700You know, he's not going to do the things that need to be done to make sure lives are better
00:24:14.920for Canadians. So that's what I mean by that. I think that there is a bit of a problem with the
00:24:21.040New Democrats on occasion where we become small, where we talk about, you know, these highfalutin
00:24:27.160ideas and we leave people behind. We need to talk to people about the challenges that they are
00:24:33.140facing in their life right now. We need to talk to people about the real solutions, a progressive
00:24:38.940solution we have to to deal with these crises that they're that they're enduring um and and we need
00:24:44.660them to feel like like they're not bad people for not knowing you know all the words not knowing how
00:24:51.500to how to describe their their version of of progressive values um that's that's not how we
00:24:58.580build a political party we've got to be open to people i want to bring people on on on this journey
00:25:03.460I want to bring people along so that we actually can, you know, have a progressive country that is better for everyone.
00:25:19.700It's that we speak to people about the issues that are facing them.
00:25:22.760And like I said, I believe that the values that I have, the things I want for this country, are what many, many, many Canadians want for this country as well.
00:25:33.460I feel like it's making me wonder if, you know, to what degree people are sort of talking past each other in the debate on this issue.
00:25:43.580If there's maybe two different conceptions of what a purity test is, maybe, because, you know, because what what people tend to fall back on.
00:25:52.920And obviously, like there there was the blowback from your colleague Leah Gazan over this, you know, that the language of sort of.
00:26:01.740I mean, we keep using the term purity test, which frankly, I haven't, I haven't heard you use that
00:26:06.280term that much. You did use it in the beginning. So I'm wondering if you're moving away from that
00:26:10.560intentionally. And also, you know, Leah Gazan was saying that it can kind of hurt, it can hurt
00:26:18.640marginalized people when, you know, to imply that these things that are fundamental are purity tests,
00:26:28.940Like things like if someone uses misogynistic or racist or transphobic language, maybe from a place of ignorance, but, you know, that to imply that those are purity tests for people to take issue with is actually sort of harmful to many folks who are already within that tent and might push them out.
00:26:50.580So I'm curious, like what was, how did you feel when you saw Leah's criticism and what's your response to it?
00:26:56.300Yeah, I honestly think that it's actually the opposite of that. You know, I have spoken to people across this country that have not felt welcome at our party, that have not felt like they're included, and that they include racialized communities, diasporic communities, marginalized communities.
00:27:12.940my whole career I have spent protecting the rights human rights of others I mean that's
00:27:18.900that's that's what I have focused on well before I was in politics and and I think that like in my
00:27:24.260introduction you talked about the way that that I have unabashedly protected human rights you know
00:27:29.360despite any perceived political cost to that because it is the right thing to do but but there
00:27:34.440have been people that have felt that they're not welcome in our party that they don't know all
00:27:37.600those words that they don't know exactly how to describe their values and I want them to feel like
00:27:42.800they are welcome so it's actually the opposite of that I think like for me it is let's open this up
00:27:47.900let's make sure that that you know I'll give you an example when I when I was traveling across the
00:27:54.560country last summer I did a lot of door knocking in different areas I met with a lot of different
00:27:59.320community members it you know was before I was even putting my name for it to be leader but it
00:28:04.160was because I wanted to support other candidates and whatnot and we were talking a lot I met with
00:28:08.440a lot of people that were very interested in the genocide happening in Gaza and what Canada could
00:28:14.800do. But I also spoke to a whole bunch of people who felt that they were seen as second-class
00:28:20.720citizens, that they were seen as, that their government didn't respect them or see them as
00:28:26.980equal to others. They felt that they were, you know, that a country that they loved, that they
00:28:33.560lived in whose values they they loved um didn't see them as as the same level of human and and
00:28:40.040it broke my heart you know it broke my heart that that would be the way people would feel in our
00:28:44.440communities and and so you know that that's part of what drives me i want everyone to feel they're
00:28:51.960welcome within our party i want everybody to feel welcome within our country i want people to know
00:28:56.120that the new democrats will always have their backs i mean i have been i have been very outspoken
00:29:02.760about the the rights that are being that are being taken away from canadians the rights that
00:29:07.000are being taken away from people around the world i won't stop doing that that's that's fundamental
00:29:11.240to who i am of course it always will be yeah you know and i i'm curious like and maybe you don't
00:29:19.240know the answer to this because it's kind of a big question but um i'm curious where that feeling
00:29:24.360comes from within people about you know not being welcome as a result of purity tests or as a result
00:29:31.480of um you know not knowing the right words do you feel as though that is something that comes from
00:29:36.840the ndp itself or is it more of a byproduct of online discourse about the ndp that might not
00:29:42.520necessarily be the party itself because i i've heard both and i'm curious what you think about
00:29:48.120that i mean listen if if i was if i was in this country and i was feeling uh you know as a
00:29:54.200marginalized person in this country i would feel that that the the dialogue in this country is a
00:29:58.360a problem. You know, when Danielle Smith weaponizes trans kids, that's horrific. And that makes every0.67
00:30:05.940single trans person in this country feel less safe. You know, if I'm a Muslim person, and I
00:30:11.520watch my Prime Minister say that, you know, unlimited Ukrainians can come to this country
00:30:16.960and be safe from violence, but only a couple thousand, maybe, can come from Palestine to be0.98
00:30:23.440safe from violence. That doesn't make me feel safe. That doesn't make me feel like I'm welcome
00:30:28.880in this country. You know, when I see Pierre Polyev meeting with white supremacists, you know,
00:30:34.340the leader of the official opposition, meeting with white supremacists, I think this excludes
00:30:42.820people from our country, from our party. I think with regards to the NDP, we've always been the
00:30:48.940only party that has the moral strength, the moral fortitude to actually say all human rights matter.
00:30:55.200You know, the loss of one human right is the loss of all. This is the fundamental piece
00:31:01.480in who we are as New Democrats. And I don't see that as being something that is
00:31:06.980under attack in any way within the New Democratic Party. I do see that within the country. I do see
00:31:14.440that as a really big reason why the NDP needs to rebuild urgently. You know, we are the only party
00:31:23.200that stands in that House of Commons and regularly calls out attacks on folks across this country,
00:31:30.100attacks on people's human rights in Canada and around the world. You're not going to hear that
00:31:34.280from the Conservatives. You're not going to hear that from the Liberals. Yeah. And I did want to
00:31:39.200ask you about that i mean one thing that you have really prioritized and i really do like every time
00:31:45.680there's a press conference that i'm paying attention to on palestine it feels like you're
00:31:49.680standing alongside them uh you know one that's in uh on the parliamentary precinct you've really
00:31:56.320championed this issue of the genocide in gaza you've really uh been a strong advocate on this
00:32:02.400point i'm curious about um why that felt like something that was so imperative for you to
00:32:10.000be this voice on and um you know whether you feel as though the broader party is keeping up with you
00:32:19.040for example you know there's the there was the whole controversy with sarah jama and the ontario
00:32:23.600NDP, do you feel as though they are standing alongside you in this fight?
00:32:32.200Absolutely. I mean, I think the work that we did to bring forward the motion in the House of
00:32:37.720Commons, you know, the very first time that the human rights of Palestinians was ever discussed
00:32:41.900in our parliament, that was a unanimous decision made by our caucus to bring that forward. For
00:32:48.460folks that don't know, that was one of our opposition days. The NDP only has three opposition
00:32:52.700days or only had three opposition days at that time and one of them was a priority because
00:32:57.260because there's a genocide happening and because that's important but it's it's not the only thing
00:33:01.820that that we have used our voice for uh you know you speak about press conferences and i i have
00:33:06.700been very very vocal about the the genocide happening in sudan and how canada has to stop
00:33:12.540sending weapons to to governments that are fueling that that horrific horrific war you know i was the
00:33:19.500the first member of parliament that spoke about the cultural and genocide that's happening in
00:33:26.160Ukraine. Canada was one of the very first countries to declare a genocide. It was my
00:33:31.380unanimous consent motion that made that happen. I went to Ukraine during the war alone, so I could
00:33:38.100see what was happening on the ground in European and Bucha and other places. So I think, you know,
00:33:43.780as the foreign affairs critic, I have an obligation to call these things out, to hold
00:33:49.180our government accountable i'm i'm deeply deeply upset when i hear from you know millions of
00:33:55.600canadians literally millions of canadians have written to my office to tell me uh that that not
00:34:01.660in their name that they don't like what this government is doing that they don't want us to
00:34:05.120be sending weapons you know to israel they don't want us to be complicit in in some of these crimes
00:34:10.560And yet the government doesn't move. So all that to say, yes, this is an important issue. It's one of the most important issues of our time. When Mark Carney talks about the broken international rules-based order, it is broken because countries like Canada, because leaders like Mark Carney did not protect it.
00:34:33.200They did not fight for it. And so as we rebuild this world order, as we rebuild what the future looks like, the need for us to be making sure that we are protecting those things that make us human, that we are protecting international law and human rights.
00:34:53.300As we rebuild, that's got to be central. And I'm deeply worried that without a progressive party that is fighting for those things in Ottawa, that Canada will not do that. We will be a shadow of the US foreign policy and that will be a problem.
00:35:06.960yeah i you know obviously the the trump factor is is this like thing that's looming large over
00:35:16.960all of our political discussions and obviously in the most recent election was a huge factor
00:35:23.340that pushed canadians towards mark carney he really like grabbed onto that um and people
00:35:29.600viewed him as the only real alternative to Pierre Polyev. So a lot of people sort of,
00:35:37.560you know, you hear a lot of people saying, oh, I voted liberal to keep Polyev out.0.99
00:35:44.040I mean, what do you, how do you get those voters as things are getting, things are getting scarier,0.93
00:35:50.200not less scary with respect to Trump. How do you convince those voters to support you guys
00:36:19.800since the Second World War no longer apply.
00:36:23.800And I think regular politics will always say
00:36:26.500that foreign affairs isn't really a vote determining issue, but it is. With the world
00:36:32.520where it is right now, I think we need a progressive party that is pushing for those
00:36:37.840things that we believe in. And I will say, like going back to your first question where you asked
00:36:43.600like, why am I different? I have been the foreign affairs critic for four years. I have been doing
00:36:48.660this work. I have worked in international affairs and foreign affairs for much of my career, for
00:36:54.600decades i understand the complexity i understand what we can get done i can do that work and i can
00:37:00.280do that work on day one yeah you know one of those things that carney has been doing to um respond
00:37:09.240to this threat that has gotten him some criticism and some praise has been this like openness to a
00:37:16.760potential pipeline um you know and those discussions with alberta with the mou um that's
00:37:23.560also kicked off a lot of blowback from first nations particularly coastal first nations in bc
00:37:30.280um i wanted to ask you would you are you someone who is open to further pipeline development in
00:37:37.800canada um and where do you stand on the uh i guess the issue of further oil and gas development in
00:37:47.320canada so so that mou i deeply dislike for for many many reasons um first of all like
00:37:56.760listen the the there is there is no proponent there is no pathway in which that pipeline in
00:38:02.440my opinion will get built um you cannot build a pipeline on unceded territory uh we are
00:38:08.680increasingly knowing that the courts find with landholders so that that won't get built we have
00:38:14.200a tanker ban that Mark Carney himself has promised not to lift, you know, that project is not going
00:38:22.280to happen. And so there are two options here. Either Mark Carney always knew that it wasn't
00:38:27.320going to happen and he is trying to deceive Canadians and Albertans, or he thinks he can
00:38:31.480jam a project through against Indigenous wishes, against the wishes of the people of British
00:38:36.120Columbia, against, you know, our environmental obligations. So, and I just want to be clear as
00:38:42.440well he is doing this at a moment when danielle smith is attacking trans rights workers rights
00:38:48.200and our healthcare system and instead of holding her accountable for those things he is giving her
00:38:53.000this little bump in the polls um and and and i guess even as an albertan i see this and i think
00:38:59.560my goodness if mark carney is handing out big nation building projects to the provinces you
00:39:04.520know to get people working to to increase the economy the economic benefits in our in our regions
00:39:10.680And that's the one Alberta gets, where there will be no jobs, where there will be nothing to build us a futures economy.
00:39:16.660You know, I want to see a build big energy project in Alberta that is renewable, you know, that is working on our power grid, that is building out our high-speed rail and our transit systems.
00:39:28.020Those are things that I'd like to see because those are things that are going to get Albertans working.
00:39:32.140Those are the things that are actually going to get the folks that need a job to support their families a job.
00:39:37.960You know, we look at the oil and gas sector, and I have to say, we've got to stop the oil and gas subsidies, we should not be giving billions of dollars to oil and gas companies that are already making billions of dollars of profit, but the jobs aren't there, like, I grew up in Alberta, my dad was a truck driver in the oil and gas sector, I know how terrible that boom bust economy is for families, I know how hard that is, I lived that, but right now, you know, as
00:40:07.960The oil sands are increasing production by like 45%. The number of jobs being used to create a barrel of oil is decreasing, is decreasing massively. So those people don't work in oil and gas because they're deeply in love with oil and gas. They work in oil and gas because they need a job, because they need to support their families, because it is an economic driver in our country.
00:40:29.840we need to give jobs to those folks so that they can continue to thrive my kids grow my kids are
00:40:35.160growing up in Alberta I want them to stay there I want us to have a future economy I want us to be
00:40:40.060able to to have family sustaining jobs and right now the the investment in the oil and gas sector
00:40:45.380is not the path for that yeah great well um Heather that's pretty much all the questions
00:40:52.120that I had for you um I want to leave some time for questions from the chat so thank you so much
00:40:57.680for uh taking on i know i asked a few there that are uh you know a little contentious issues so i
00:41:03.040really appreciate you answering them um it's been super interesting very interesting yeah definitely
00:41:07.920um while i give people a few seconds to put their questions in the chat i wanted to give you the
00:41:13.760opportunity obviously people who have heard you speak for the last 40 minutes might be like hey
00:41:18.400i want to keep up with heather where can you do that uh so of course you did mention that the 28th
00:41:25.520is the last day to sign up to get a membership and so that's something that we are we are really
00:41:30.240encouraging people to do this you know this is the future of our party this is the future of
00:41:34.560democracy in our country and we should be we should be engaged in this so make sure you get
00:41:39.360your membership if you're not 100 sure if your membership is up to date renew your membership
00:41:44.080it's it's just easier to do it that way and you can go to heathermcpherson.ca to do that
00:41:48.720um and then yeah like they're all of our policies are there everything that we are are working on we
00:41:55.120put up on our website but we also share it on social media and of course i'm on all the channels
00:41:59.600you can can find me in all the places um but but it would be great to have people really engage
00:42:04.800with this race really really think about the future of the ndp because you know i'm a i'm a
00:42:09.280big believer that that even if you're not a new democrat uh it is better for canadians when we
00:42:15.440have a strong progressive party in the house of commons it is better for all canadians when we
00:42:20.880have a strong party that is holding the the government of the day to account and that's
00:42:25.120that's the role of the ndp awesome thank you so much heather all right we have one super chat
00:42:31.280question that i'll take first and then i'll turn to the regular chat so let me just pull this up
00:42:36.480here um they said oh there's a bit of a personal question here but they said um yeah they said uh
00:42:43.360does she support building more oil pipelines uh we kind of just touched on that but you know maybe
00:42:48.320be a more definitive answer on there if you have any concrete thoughts on whether you'd be open
00:42:52.800in the context where they're a proponent etc um and is it true that your partner is a senior legal
00:42:59.380counsel for a pipeline company yeah so first of all i'm never ever going to be um apologetic for
00:43:06.880the fact that my husband works in the oil and gas sector we we live in alberta people work in the
00:43:10.720oil and gas sector in fact that's that's my that's that's my answer in the last question you know
00:43:16.920we've got to protect people's jobs, we've got to be making sure that people have good family
00:43:22.120sustaining jobs. And I think, you know, listen, we're not going to get off oil and gas in the
00:43:28.200in the foreseeable future. I actually think when some of the candidates talk about not one more
00:43:32.980drop, that that's unrealistic, and it actually takes us out of the conversation. We need a
00:43:38.860process to move away from oil and gas and to move towards renewables. We need a process that should
00:43:44.800started a long time ago um but we need to do it in a way that brings workers with us and when we
00:43:49.920talk about workers and we talk about just transition folks don't believe us and they don't
00:43:54.960believe us because we've seen that that that game before where we're you know you talk about northern
00:44:00.960ontario where mining companies were told about a transition and all of a sudden it just meant that
00:44:05.440moving trucks were coming in and that people were going to lose their jobs so absolutely we need to
00:44:10.640build a futures facing economy that leaves no one behind and it has to happen now
00:44:15.440um but but it has to happen in a way that keeps people working that keeps jobs going
00:44:21.360uh the same chatter tch cardinal also wants to know if she were elected ndp leader what
00:44:28.160would be her strategy for winning over more voters to the party well i mean first of all
00:44:34.000i think that's that's that's a big part of what i'm planning and that's the vision of building
00:44:39.120this bigger table and having this bigger um this bigger platform that welcomes people in so so
00:44:45.360first of all it's it's showing up it's it's showing up i see this job as being very much um
00:44:51.040you know the hard work of of cafes of of mosques of church basements of union halls you know of
00:44:56.960kitchen tables i i see this as making sure that we are in communities across this country and we are
00:45:01.760talking to people talking to people about the things that matter to them that's that's how we
00:45:07.520rebuild. That's how we bring people back on. I believe this so clearly, but if the best
00:45:17.280candidates and the best policies always won elections, NDP would be government every single
00:45:22.400time. That's not the case. We've got to be better at talking to people. We've got to be more
00:45:26.800disciplined in our communications. We've got to meet people where they are. And we stopped doing
00:45:31.800that, you know, we cannot be the party of, you know, urban settings and never talk to people
00:45:37.460in rural communities. You know, we've got to be out there in Saskatchewan, we've got to be out
00:45:41.040there in places where we're not doing great right now, because that's how we build. You know,
00:45:46.020in Edmonton Strathcona, we had a conservative seat. It was a conservative seat forever. And
00:45:51.520then in 2008, Linda Duncan won it. And now it is, like I said, it is the strongest NDP seat in the
00:45:56.620country so so there is a path for us to build it's talking to people it's working with our
00:46:02.360members it's getting candidates nominated early so they can do that work it's supporting our
00:46:06.520riding associations so that they're reaching out to their community so that they're bringing
00:46:10.200members on it's working with the provincial parties because the provincial parties are
00:46:15.060engaging with with Canadians across the country in a very very successful way and we should be
00:46:21.520working with them on that. Peter Boyle wants to know, Heather has made the economic argument
00:46:28.840against pipeline expansion, but can she commit to a position of no more fossil fuel expansion
00:46:34.240in principle? So, yeah, I mean, realistically, there is still capacity within the structures
00:46:41.640that we have already. You know, I was very disappointed when I saw Mark Carney suggest
00:46:45.500that the kxl could be a possibility i don't understand why that would be um a way for us to
00:46:51.660get away from our our um dependence on the united states you know for me right now we will not see
00:46:58.300the the pipeline going through northern british columbia i don't think that's that's going to
00:47:01.740happen i don't think that it should um i do think that we have such an opportunity in this country
00:47:07.260such an opportunity to invest in renewables to invest in a green future for all of us and and
00:47:40.880You want to push back against Danielle Smith?
00:47:44.700And this rhetoric, you know, this, and I will say too, it is not something I should, I should make jokes about. There are 30% of Albertans that are not opposed to the idea of separation. It is a problem. It is something that is being fueled by MAGA. It has been fueled by foreign interference from the U.S. predominantly, but from other forces that seek to undermine our sovereignty.
00:48:08.280um but yeah let's let's elect someone from alberta who can talk about how um incredible it is
00:48:17.560to be in albertan what a beautiful place it is in alberta the best province i shouldn't say that
00:48:22.400but you know i live there um but also is an incredibly proud canadian you know who also
00:48:29.100will fight tooth and nail to make sure that alberta stays as part of canada i think that's
00:48:34.260that's that's the solution let's let's um let's let's let's elect the very first alberta new
00:48:41.380democrat leader hey uh ninja cupcake wants to know how exactly would you tackle the anti-queer
00:48:48.740anti-trans and anti-public legislation happening in alberta i'm so sick of hearing slogans of hope
00:48:54.420i want to know about the real plan excellent excellent question so when the premier uh used
00:49:02.500the notwithstanding clause against against trans people in my province we started to do some
00:49:06.820research about what could be done you know i'm part of the i'm an ally for the pride caucus in
00:49:11.300in parliament and i tried to look at what are those pieces that we have and one of the things
00:49:15.860that is actually in the the constitution is something called disallowance and i have written
00:49:20.660to the prime minister and asked him in this instance to use this allowance against those
00:49:25.540that legislation it is something the federal a tool the federal government has to stop any
00:49:30.420legislation that is that is so damaging so harmful and so hurtful to people in our in our country
00:49:36.500he should be doing that when i get back to ottawa when parliament resumes at the end of january i
00:49:41.620will be raising that issue with him again i have not heard back from him um to be fair to the
00:49:47.380prime minister he's been he's been a bit touch busy but we you know we we do need to
00:49:54.100it goes back to what i said earlier you know you you cannot you cannot allow the human rights of
00:50:00.260people in our country to be taken away without fighting back and and disallowance is actually
00:50:05.460a legislative tool that the prime minister has so i have been encouraging folks to write to the
00:50:10.100prime minister and demand that we did a virtual town hall where we talked about you know what
00:50:15.220are those other ways that we can try to push against against this anti-trans agenda this
00:50:20.740weaponization of of trans lives um so so we will continue to do that all right i think we have time
00:50:27.620time for one more. So I'm just grabbing this one from Poutine McFlurry. I love reading out these0.96
00:50:33.020names. Poutine McFlurry. It sounds kind of unsettling, maybe delicious, depends on the
00:50:39.140context. I mean, anyone who's dipped a French fry in a Wendy's broth, you know, it can be a good
00:50:43.660combo. So Heather, do you have a specific example of a purity test in the NDP you have a problem
00:50:50.320with? And what would you do to change it to make the party more accommodating? Yeah, I mean, this
00:50:55.180is this is what I talked about my dad you know literally I I have I have sat in rooms where
00:51:00.860people talk about how far left they are and and I've excluded those that are like
00:51:06.240I don't know like I don't know how far left I am um so so I I have been in those rooms but it is
00:51:12.860that same sort of situation where I like like I said with my dad like that's the perfect example
00:51:17.380he does not know if he's a democratic socialist or a socialist new democrat um you know he does
00:51:23.200not know but he he shares the values he shares the values that that so many people have um you know
00:51:30.120i worked in the international development sector and and i i will say that you know there is
00:51:36.560in every sector there is um that ability to go a little bit into the into the weeds and not be as
00:51:43.020inclusive and as open we've we've seen that you know we've seen people use acronyms or whatnot
00:51:47.500I think it's opening it up. It is saying that every single person is welcome in our party. Everyone who believes in the things that New Democrats believe in is welcome in our party. You know, you don't need to prove that you've got some sort of left wing badge of honour.
00:52:05.020You know, if you can say that you believe that everyone belongs in this country, that you want to support a country with a good social safety net, you know, a country that fights for human rights around the world and in Canada, then you belong here.
00:52:32.700January 28th deadline, folks, if you have feelings about the NDP leadership race, that's how much time you have left to decide if you want to have a say in it.
00:52:40.920So, all right. Well, Heather, thank you so much. And hopefully we'll have you back on soon.
00:52:47.380Yeah, thank you. Thanks. It's been a great conversation. Really enjoyed it.