Culture Club - June 07, 2021


A Proposition For The Communists

Topics
So No One Told You Life Was Gonna Be This Way The Joy In Being Black And Bisexual With Model Milo Hartill

Episode Stats


Length

42 minutes

Words per minute

170.59

Word count

7,261

Sentence count

107

Harmful content

Misogyny

21

sentences flagged

Toxicity

15

sentences flagged

Hate speech

6

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
00:00:00.000 is harry styles starting a beauty brand does pamela anderson hate her new tv show
00:00:12.900 and billionaire grimes has a proposition for the communists we're jasmine and maggie and
00:00:19.180 you're listening to culture club this is our weekly chat about pop culture current affairs
00:00:24.140 the internet, and of course, our lives. We acknowledge that the Wurundjeri and Boon Wurrung
00:00:31.060 people are the traditional custodians of the land upon which we live, work, and record this podcast.
00:00:37.980 We would like to pay our respects to Elders past, present, and emerging. Always was,
00:00:44.240 always will be Aboriginal land. 0.99
00:00:46.280 happy birthday jazz you're now 25 thank you yep turned 25 on friday i had a lovely lockdown
00:01:00.340 birthday like many millions of people have had but this one felt hard because it was unexpected
00:01:06.660 like i think i said last episode a few weeks ago we were like out and going into gigs and
00:01:13.160 living a normal life and then all of a sudden we're in snap lockdown so so yeah we were meant
00:01:17.980 to be taking a break this weekend from the podcast because we were meant to be away
00:01:23.700 in the countryside living our best cottagecore lives but luckily for you guys we are not there
00:01:31.500 we're in lockdown so we're gonna make an episode yay lucky for you that we get to miss out on
00:01:38.460 vodka pasta and girls nights and lots of what sorry this is not helping is it
00:01:43.340 just realized halfway through um but no you've seriously drawn the worst luck of the cards or
00:01:52.420 whatever that saying is especially with your lockdown birthdays but fingers crossed I mean
00:01:58.920 gross cliche but hopefully it just makes it all the sweeter but actually
00:02:03.300 also we can just shove aside that positivity and just like admit that that sucks but I'm glad that
00:02:09.840 I got to zoom call you with a few friends as well yeah I still had a very very lovely birthday
00:02:15.440 everyone still made me feel very special I had three birthday cakes extravagance one sent by
00:02:22.460 you girls one sent by my friend Paris and one that was made for me by my lovely grandma yeah
00:02:28.000 so it was still a nice day and i've had a good weekend feel relaxed so you know it's not all
00:02:34.540 bad i feel like it took a few days at the start of the week to kind of wallow in it a bit more
00:02:38.620 and be mad and sad and frustrated i still was a little bit upset on the day at certain points
00:02:44.200 but i just made sure to fill my day with distractions and phone calls and everything
00:02:50.920 lovely so yeah how has your week been my week has been okay you know we're in lockdown it's
00:02:57.780 not fun Sydney had fashion week this week everyone else is out and about I wrote a little short
00:03:04.860 snippet for MTV about how I'm feeling and it's just just like a dull sadness that just continues
00:03:12.740 to carry us Melburnians we never feel fully secure or that we can enjoy anything because
00:03:19.080 it might be taken away from us so yeah I summed up my words in a paragraph for them yeah I think
00:03:26.440 That was so good. I think you should read them out.
00:03:28.440 Yeah, sure thing. I wrote this, I think, straight after the first lockdown was announced. So again,
00:03:33.840 it's changed a lot my mindset, but here it is. We're okay. We're not okay. We're okay. We're
00:03:40.500 not okay. After the year of lockdown, after lockdown, after lockdown, you learn to live
00:03:46.260 with uncertainty. You're rewired to brace yourself for change. You catch yourself in moments untouched
00:03:52.420 by the pandemic and ask yourself if it's too good to be true. Newsflash, it was. I quietly
00:03:58.820 watched the throngs of protesters on Twitter condemning our shifty government and our terrible
00:04:03.480 vaccine rollout and hotel quarantine program. But here on the sidelines, I can't even muster
00:04:09.580 up the energy to shout alongside them. I'm tired and equally as scared. The day the lockdown was
00:04:15.540 announced, my friends sent weeping voice notes to our group chat. We sent each other shitty memes 0.98
00:04:20.640 and i rolled out every we've got this pep talk for me i employed distraction and the faux positive 0.58
00:04:26.920 making the most of it mindset to cope i finished a book i did 10 minutes of yoga i finally watched
00:04:33.340 les miserables these self-care band-aids of course do not help the fact that some of the
00:04:38.660 closest people in my life will be receiving zero income during this unstable time or that thousands
00:04:44.200 of aussies are still stranded overseas with no hope of returning home or that the hospitality
00:04:49.700 industry is nursing yet another heavy blow if you ask me how i'm doing i'll give you a half-hearted
00:04:56.360 smile and with a sigh reply it is what it is so beautiful and you just sum up the feelings so well
00:05:04.720 i'm sure other victorians can relate um if you're not from victoria and you're sick of us talking
00:05:09.840 about it we don't get honestly let's hope that this is the last week and thursday ends it
00:05:17.320 because we are ready to be out and about again we are ready i haven't worn any of my rings i
00:05:24.140 haven't worn proper clothes in a while i haven't sprayed my perfumes in a while it's sad but
00:05:30.500 speaking of perfumes and other cosmetics this leads us to our first little segment for the day
00:05:37.860 a couple weeks back on may 25th harry styles registered a beauty brand under the name of
00:05:44.240 pleased as with a description labeled wholesale of perfume and cosmetics oh the internet was a
00:05:51.420 flutter with uh speculations what are your initial thoughts well not to start with a downer but i
00:05:59.560 will start with a downer i'm a little bit cynical okay and i want you to maybe i'd love to hear
00:06:05.720 your opinion but anyway first off harry doesn't wear any noticeable makeup really apart from nail
00:06:13.060 polish am i right unless it's for like a magazine shoot or red carpet event and of course that's
00:06:19.140 um with the help of many stylists yeah so it kind of threw me for a moment i was like oh this is
00:06:25.300 kind of random do you feel like he's selling out by creating that like low-key he always kind of
00:06:32.340 pegged me as a celebrity that didn't care too much about what other people um thought like he was just
00:06:38.400 in his own lane doing his thing not doing the typical celebrity duties and like influencer
00:06:45.160 campaigns or whatever it might be um so yeah this kind of was a surprise for me
00:06:50.600 I know what you mean but I also think that this is because we put him on a pedestal of being so
00:06:58.200 like unique and I don't know different than the rest not like other boys um when the reality is
00:07:05.500 he's just trying to make money not that he needs any more I reckon it's probably more of like a
00:07:11.980 management thing being like this would be a good idea you'd have this income coming in that you
00:07:16.440 wouldn't have to think about if you want to pursue acting instead of music you could have that on the
00:07:20.520 side blah blah blah so you're telling me that Harry Styles also needs a side hustle like us
00:07:25.240 is he a little slashy as well well celebrities were the first slashies wasn't like actress
00:07:30.700 singer like hillary duff something but like all right i can see the connection because
00:07:36.880 doesn't everyone love some perfume because of him because he wears it and then there's like
00:07:42.060 the gucci stuff like he's in the gucci campaigns so i feel like if he's gonna create a makeup of
00:07:48.940 beauty line it will be considered like more high end and have like really rich flavors to it i can
00:07:54.480 imagine it won't be like the one direction perfume that i was just gonna say it's like candy
00:07:58.880 candy spray has i ever wronged you what's wrong with that why don't we just stick with that you
00:08:03.720 know it's not too bad love smelling that in this warehouse i never got it um i was very um picky
00:08:12.340 or you know okay picky is the wrong word here i wasn't allowed much merch so the ones that i
00:08:17.680 the things i would get um would have to be really special so apparently that meant the take me home
00:08:23.060 concert dvd oh but anyway sorry back on topic i don't know why i just always feel so icky about
00:08:32.340 celebrity brands as well like you mentioned before it purely just seems like a way to make more money
00:08:38.320 because you know we talk about celebrity cosmetic procedures and plastic surgery quite often and i
00:08:44.640 would bet that just most celebrities don't use their own products or don't just purely use their
00:08:49.480 own skincare line like j-lo you know the way that she talks about her amazing skincare line that 0.77
00:08:55.960 you know has kept her so useful when of course she's got so many millions of dollars curating 0.98
00:09:01.120 her appearance and maintaining it yeah i think i actually trust makeup and beauty less when it has 0.98
00:09:08.520 like a celebrity spokesperson like selena's selena gomez's makeup line i have no interest
00:09:16.420 hayley bieber's stuff i'm like i just can't be bothered i don't care but if it's kind of more
00:09:20.900 of like a independent even if it's owned by like a massive corporation if it seems more independent
00:09:26.180 and yeah i guess scientific i will go for that over like the ariana grande perfume or something
00:09:32.520 i so get you and like maybe it's naive of us because obviously they've got a team of people
00:09:37.940 doing this it's not like kylie jenner in the lab like making the lipsticks herself
00:09:42.420 um our friend of the podcast Bianca Hill actually quite often pushes back on this narrative about
00:09:49.420 how critical we are of celebrity brands because we all know like big makeup and skincare brands
00:09:55.320 are typically owned by millionaires anyway so like it doesn't make one better than the other but
00:10:02.920 yeah I totally understand I'm with you in terms of like I'm just more skeptical when I see a
00:10:07.540 celebrity spokesperson over over I don't know a normal brand I also think it's because I grew up
00:10:14.320 with the proactive ads on tv and remembering seeing well when I was a bit older it was like
00:10:20.400 Justin Bieber and Kendall Jenner using proactive and being like my skin's gone from zero to hero
00:10:26.980 or something and it's like you didn't use proactive that's burnt all your skin off
00:10:32.580 you've used like a nutritionist and you have a personal trainer and you get facials every week
00:10:37.860 and you know you're on special medication so I think that because that was ingrained in me now
00:10:43.380 I'm like oh I can't be bothered but Harry Styles may change my mind yeah I'm open to be proven
00:10:49.740 wrong with this one um who knows he registered this company but we don't know if it'll come
00:10:55.500 into fruition or when it might even happen so watch this space we'll definitely do a review
00:11:00.960 of some kind even if it's just a virtual one because we're not buying the products or something
00:11:05.720 over the past few weeks the internet has been swooning over photos of lily james as pamela
00:11:17.160 and sebastian stan as tommy lee for a new tv show called pam and tommy so according to hulu this
00:11:25.700 show would be a comedic eight-part limited series based on the true story behind the release of the
00:11:31.500 first ever viral video in history which is a sex tape of Pamela Anderson and Tommy Lee. So while
00:11:38.620 Pamela Anderson hasn't released her own statement her friend Courtney Love aka the lead singer of
00:11:44.460 the band Hole and Nirvana's Kurt Cobain's ex-wife said in a now-deleted Facebook post
00:11:50.440 I find this so effing outrageous she said she was recalling the release of the Tommy and Pam
00:11:56.620 sex tape when she was in a recording studio saying all the staff engineers producers owners 0.93
00:12:03.640 watching the sex tape with huge schadenfreude it was disgusting I banned anyone discussing it 1.00
00:12:10.120 it destroyed my friend Pamela's life utterly she also added my heart goes out to Pammy and she also 0.99
00:12:17.420 said that the series was quote further causing her complex trauma and the way she ended the 1.00
00:12:23.220 facebook post was also sizzling she said and shame on lily james whoever the fuck she is 0.98
00:12:29.740 brutal okay this show has already been making waves so much so that our we posted about it 1.00
00:12:38.540 and it got taken down because they instagram said it was containing a sexual act it was lily james 0.59
00:12:44.700 like biting on Sebastian's nipple which is funny um but it's caused a lot of hype it's like a lot
00:12:50.980 of people talking about it everyone's excited about it but then these statements are coming
00:12:55.240 out saying that Pamela's not happy about it so do you think that shows should be made about
00:13:02.220 living people when they're the object okay so before we get into it I need to tell people
00:13:08.160 that I actually don't know anything about Pammy and Tommy over here I didn't even know that there
00:13:14.400 was a sex tape etc so i'm going to be speaking quite generally because i don't know their
00:13:18.720 specific circumstances um but just the fact that pamela had a sex tape released without consent
00:13:26.500 in the 90s and that now they're creating a tv shows about that sex tape um and releasing it
00:13:34.320 again without her consent just feels truly like traumatizing and it is really baffling that we're
00:13:40.240 doing it in this supposedly like more woke day and age but i do want to throw something out there
00:13:46.700 you have a theory that this might not be the case do you want to share it with a class i do so um
00:13:53.560 also the video the sex tape was made in 1995 so a long time ago um and it was made during their
00:14:02.640 honeymoon this was never meant for anyone else to see but sadly it was watched by millions of people
00:14:07.600 a few months later so um yeah before kim k built her brand off her sex tape before the paris hilton
00:14:15.780 sex tape scandal um so yeah it was really one of the major ones of the 90s but going back to tv show
00:14:23.560 both you and i are quite excited for this because we're both you know sebastian and lily fans and
00:14:28.480 i find it so fascinating the way they've like created their costuming and everything um but
00:14:34.640 then you sent me this article earlier in the week about what Courtney Luff has said and it just
00:14:40.440 didn't match up to me because why on earth would they be allowed to make a tv show without the
00:14:47.940 subject's consent if they're literally basing it on her life they made Lily James look identical
00:14:53.620 to Pamela Anderson but yet they're saying that she is being very like traumatized by this which
00:14:59.700 i understand and i always always will believe women but that doesn't add up in my head like
00:15:04.800 they must have had to ask pamela and tommy for some sort of like permission because then they
00:15:10.720 could just sue them sue the company within a win an inch of their life you know i'm actually very
00:15:17.020 interested to see how this plays out because i'm thinking about the woody allen documentary
00:15:21.720 allen b farrow and i'm guessing they didn't get his consent for that yet you know it is of course
00:15:28.300 based on him but i also think there's a difference between documentary and then a tv show series the
00:15:35.760 tv show reached out to courtney love to ask if her cover of rolling stone could feature in the tv show
00:15:42.420 and she was like absolutely no so they had to seek permission for that but potentially because you 0.99
00:15:48.380 know if there's like a photo taken of pamela she doesn't own the rights to it like usually the 0.68
00:15:52.860 photographer or the company owns that so potentially she might not have to have i don't
00:15:57.860 know consent given but that also baffles me because you're right it's like a whole thing
00:16:02.260 based on her life like why would they be like oh courtney love we want to use this one particular
00:16:06.920 magazine cover you're in um i need we need your permission oh but it's fine if we just use whole
00:16:11.880 pamela anderson's whole trauma from 25 years ago um for entertainment for the world that's fine
00:16:17.580 you know this actually reminds me of some headlines that i saw really recently which was about the
00:16:23.420 late rapper mac miller because there's a biography that's coming out about him written by a journalist
00:16:30.340 that has no like personal affiliation with mac miller and mac's family has come out and been
00:16:37.440 like please do not purchase this please don't like give like give money to this because they
00:16:42.980 didn't consent for that um so i find that so interesting well that all so many biographies
00:16:51.340 are written by journalists that have no personal affiliation to the subject but I guess when the
00:16:57.040 family comes out and says we don't want this then that's a different story but again I just and I 0.99
00:17:03.060 like I said before totally believe women and I totally think that Pamela did experience trauma 0.99
00:17:09.540 because of this like for your sex tape to be seen by millions of people before the internet like
00:17:13.840 that must have been you know I mean not before the internet but before the way the internet is now
00:17:18.580 it must have been so upsetting but also how can they how can they do that and I kept pushing back
00:17:26.760 on you and I was like we're talking about this now we're sending the articles we're clicking
00:17:31.260 the links we're talking about on a bloody podcast is this PR for the show okay so I kind of see where
00:17:38.740 you're coming from and I'm kind of starting to believe your side but what I want to say is that
00:17:45.600 like only courtney love has publicly said something about this and the way she put it out was this
00:17:51.360 like facebook post that's now being deleted there's quite a few typos the grammar is like
00:17:56.280 really sporadic like it doesn't look like there was a pr team behind it at all but pamela anderson
00:18:02.540 has also kind of gone off social media as well and this was before um this whole saga but her
00:18:08.600 last instagram post is like oh this is my last my last post so you won't be hearing from me
00:18:13.860 so I don't know maybe that adds to it but these like machines behind celebrities are so clever
00:18:20.180 and to be like oh I don't want to be involved in this I'm going to go dark on my socials
00:18:25.300 again we're talking about it it's more mysterious what is going on with her and you know Tommy etc
00:18:31.900 so I don't know I feel like if anyone who's listening is a lawyer or knows a lawyer can you
00:18:38.300 ask them if it is legal to make a whole ass show about a person and a person's life when it's still
00:18:45.120 alive and apparently are objecting to it either way will you watch the show oh well you know me
00:18:51.240 I like it takes me so long to watch like a popular show so I'll probably watch it in like a year or
00:18:55.880 so anyway I think if she actually speaks out about it that might change my mind and be like okay maybe
00:19:02.080 I shouldn't be supporting this but so far like she hasn't said anything even though you know
00:19:06.760 evidence points to that she doesn't um want this to happen so i'm not taking it off the table but
00:19:12.680 what about you yeah i'm the same as you we agree on something in the subject
00:19:16.200 the musician grimes has caused a stir online this week after she posted a theory to her tiktok
00:19:26.420 account with the caption ai is the fastest path to communism the 33 year old tells the camera she
00:19:33.460 has a proposition to the communists. We'll play the clip here. I have a proposition for the
00:19:39.520 communists. So typically, most of the communists I know are not big fans of AI. But if you think
00:19:46.760 about it, AI is actually the fastest path to communism. So if implemented correctly, AI could
00:19:54.560 actually theoretically solve for abundance. Like we could totally get to a situation where nobody
00:19:59.420 has to work everybody is provided for with a comfortable state of being comfortable living
00:20:05.480 ai could automate all the farming weed out systematic corruption thereby bringing us to
00:20:11.100 as close as possible to genuine equality so basically everything that everybody loves about
00:20:16.700 communism but without the collective farm because let's be real enforced farming is really not a vibe
00:20:23.600 so for those who haven't seen the clip she has recorded it super zoomed up to her face and she's
00:20:30.760 got like graphics drawn on her face kind of like circles and lines so it's a bit chaotic would you
00:20:37.580 agree i definitely agree and just for those who might not know uh grimes is married to the one
00:20:44.820 and only elon musk aka the second richest man in the world publicly after amazon's jeff bezos due
00:20:51.820 Due to the father of her child being a literal billionaire,
00:20:55.540 people have taken to the comments and started questioning her theory.
00:21:00.420 Some comments included the lack of self-awareness.
00:21:04.180 How are you going to say this while sleeping next to Missa Monopoly every night?
00:21:08.180 And the only one that Grimes replied to asked,
00:21:11.680 Bestie, how are you going to talk about communism when your husband is a capitalist?
00:21:15.620 Grimes said, ha ha, I am not a communist.
00:21:18.220 This is, spelt with a Z, a joke.
00:21:20.560 but maybe the technocrats and communists could get along. I don't know about you, but I've seen
00:21:25.900 so many hilarious videos stitching her original TikTok that just make you realize how absurd she
00:21:32.960 sounds. One user, Yam Schlaf, which we'll share in our stories, made a video saying,
00:21:40.340 you know what's not a vibe? When your husband bragged on Twitter about overthrowing the
00:21:44.640 democratically elected leader of Bolivia so he could continue to exploit the indigenous people
00:21:49.600 for cobalt. Forced farming is not a vibe, but forced cobalt mining for Tesla batteries is such
00:21:55.500 a vibe. How ridiculous is this? I actually didn't know about this, but definitely wouldn't put it 0.92
00:22:01.120 past Mr. Monopoly over here. Yeah. And I obviously, because of the article I recommended last week,
00:22:06.940 I was like, oh, I shouldn't just believe everything I see on Twitter. So I fact checked
00:22:10.880 what that user said. And in 2019, Elon did tweet, we will coup whoever we want to deal with it
00:22:17.740 in response to an accusation that the U.S. government organized a coup against President
00:22:23.280 Evo Morales so that Elon could obtain Bolivia's lithium. So super villain vibes over here but
00:22:31.180 we're not focusing on Mr. Monopoly. This is Grimes' video that she's uploaded to this massive
00:22:36.560 platform. What are your thoughts on this? Do you think that just because a person is married to
00:22:42.100 a billionaire that they shouldn't be allowed to explore theories and have opinions oh big one
00:22:48.580 i mean i was never into grime's music so i don't know too much about her but from the outside it's
00:22:55.960 always been like oh yeah she's super like quirky and um different so you know after the naming of
00:23:02.480 her child what is it now it's like xz2 3e xa e 12 yes that and i just want people to remember that 0.98
00:23:10.600 is the name of their child yet elon doesn't believe that transgender people exist so ridiculous 0.99
00:23:16.860 sorry was that too didn't make sense no it definitely did he said that pronouns are stupid 0.98
00:23:21.780 for anyone who doesn't get that reference yeah so to answer your question no i don't think just
00:23:27.820 because someone's married to someone or just because they are famous doesn't mean that they
00:23:32.560 can't explore theories and concepts but i just think that it makes them seem so out of touch
00:23:39.480 and just it really reinforces that they can't read the room here um and i do want to say like
00:23:45.840 we have to take into consideration the platform that she does has but that she does have like
00:23:50.820 you just mentioned so it's not just some someone posting their like silly little thoughts on social
00:23:56.040 media it is someone that people do look up to who does have a position of influence who could
00:24:01.980 actually change some things about the world what are your thoughts yeah i feel the same at first
00:24:08.920 i was like oh interesting i guess she's glad to have our opinions and then the more stitches i
00:24:13.580 saw the more i was like yeah this is ridiculous but also she uploaded a second video even after
00:24:19.400 all of the kind of backlash she kept going uh only two days ago she made a similar one with
00:24:25.320 you know the drawings on her face and close-up video um asking us to imagine that we're in a
00:24:32.060 simulation and they don't know who they are have limits on their rendering capacity so she is
00:24:37.600 basically saying that um because we're in a simulation they are limiting us from getting to
00:24:45.200 mars because that would take even more energy and i guess computer simulation rendering um go to her
00:24:51.800 tiktok if you want to hear the whole thing because it's very rambly but again the comments from
00:24:56.160 people saying oh how does she sleep at night knowing she could solve most problems but doesn't
00:25:01.340 take any responsibility and i also saw and thought the way she's speaking makes it very casual the
00:25:10.260 way she's presenting the video the fact that it's just kind of rambly thoughts and she has this kind
00:25:14.940 of like cutesy voice on which is probably her real voice but um she has this certain tone to her voice
00:25:21.400 that's very light-hearted i should say very true so people have been suggesting that these videos
00:25:26.660 are a way to insert the narrative of ai into people's minds to normalize it and to be like
00:25:34.060 oh maybe ai could you know help the human race and you know get rid of force farming so that 0.82
00:25:39.860 when tesla starts implementing robots and shit into our society that these theories aren't so 0.97
00:25:46.160 wild because grime spoke about it on tiktok five years ago conspiracy theories galore 0.96
00:25:54.240 like i see where you're coming from and the kind of vibe that she's putting out with these tiktok
00:25:59.940 videos are the ones that you see on your feed where people just like have a hot take like no
00:26:04.660 nuance november sort of thing and they can just say all these thoughts without you know there's
00:26:09.560 no fact checking there's no backing up of evidence um so it is interesting the videos just feel quite
00:26:15.960 sinister to me and it does annoy me that she does have so much power and she's still trying to be 0.59
00:26:22.300 in this kind of realm that she was before she married elon of like the quirky old girl but now 0.99
00:26:28.860 she's married to a billionaire who's trying to you know ship us all off to mars when they could
00:26:33.180 be actually saving the world that we have here and helping with climate change stuff so yeah
00:26:38.320 very dystopian vibes and with my pr hat on after you talking about the pam and tommy show um you
00:26:47.400 know she's releasing new music the tiktok before um her rambly video she's talking about like yeah
00:26:52.760 my new music video like this is what i'm practicing for it and uh the big ai communism video currently
00:27:00.840 has over three million views so again like this could just be a way to i don't know get her out
00:27:07.380 on the mainstream and get people talking about her and maybe listen to the new music who knows
00:27:13.300 actress ellie kemper found herself trending on twitter this week the star of unbreakable kimmy 0.70
00:27:22.920 the office and bridesmaids quickly became the subject of many conversations as a picture of her
00:27:29.180 being crowned the queen of love and beauty and the debutante ball in 1999 began circulating
00:27:36.440 people quickly began suggesting that ellie's participation in the organization as a teenager
00:27:41.900 meant she had ties to the racist kkk groups but within a few hours this was quickly myth busted
00:27:49.080 a piece in the atlantic titled the mystery of saint louis veiled prophet by scott beuchamp
00:27:56.140 from 2014 also quickly went viral and debunked this theory so while the saint louis debutante
00:28:04.540 ball isn't directly related to the kkk the origins of it are still murky waters
00:28:11.800 I want you to tell me about this because I was reading it
00:28:14.940 and it kind of just took my head for a spin.
00:28:16.900 I feel like there's a lot to it.
00:28:18.380 So what do you know about this kind of organisation?
00:28:21.500 So according to Vanity Fair, the Veiled Prophet organisation,
00:28:26.600 which is where Ellie was pictured at,
00:28:28.680 was co-founded by the former Confederate officer,
00:28:32.680 as in, you know, from the deep south of the US,
00:28:37.340 Alonzo Slaback and his brother Charles Slaback.
00:28:41.040 And, of course, it was created by the town's white male community leaders, and it came a year after the Great Railroad Strike of 1877.
00:28:51.760 So the strike was when black and white railroad workers joined forces across the country in protest of poor pay and working conditions.
00:28:59.960 When the strike reached St. Louis, almost 1,500 railroad workers banded together to halt the rail freight for a week because they were demanding the eight-hour workday and a ban on child labor, which of course, you know, was still happening even in the late 1800s.
00:29:16.880 The strike ended when 5,000 special police, quote unquote, joined the 3,000 federal troops and forced the strikers to disperse, killing 18 of them in the process.
00:29:30.880 So that is the kind of initial goal of the Veiled Profit organization is to take back the public stage from populist demands for social and economic justice.
00:29:42.140 and then you know in the parade and the events of it they celebrate st louis's wealthy elite
00:29:51.160 so like not great they're like keep child labor you know that's what i'm picturing yeah so you
00:29:59.060 know it's not the kkk but the ball has also been held since 1878 and is one of those debutante
00:30:06.240 balls for the wealthy elite. So, you know, America has so many institutions and organizations like
00:30:13.060 this. You hear examples of them all the time. So is it problematic? Yes. Has the institution
00:30:21.540 changed in, you know, more than a hundred years? Probably. But the one thing that we especially
00:30:29.260 want to talk about with this subject isn't the issue with this ball, but it's the way the news
00:30:35.760 cycle and the internet sped through this discourse so quickly and labeled Ellie the KKK queen 1.00
00:30:43.380 from seeing this one snippet of a newspaper 22 years ago. Boy is this a big one to get through 1.00
00:30:50.780 um I found it perplexing because I do kind of want to touch on not really the organization but
00:30:58.640 the discourse around whether Ellie is a racist or not because I think that was kind of the
00:31:04.920 conversations floating through Twitter what was kind of uncovered is that she comes from a line
00:31:09.860 of really wealthy people like there are multiple buildings named after family members and and that
00:31:15.520 sort of thing so I think it's like important to kind of push back on these conversations of
00:31:22.160 labeling people a racist like a noun which usually kind of paints them in that like one note like
00:31:27.700 kkk literal like personification whereas we're talking about like oh no we understand that but
00:31:34.660 realizing that white people just do benefit from white privilege and white supremacy yeah I saw a
00:31:42.420 tweet by the writer Beck Shaw who's Australian who said that the Ellie Kemper thing is yet more
00:31:47.900 evidence that you should just assume most people in comedy come from privileged backgrounds until
00:31:52.720 proven otherwise I think this could have been a good debate about like privilege but it's just
00:31:58.180 been kind of overtaken by the the internet discourse so i read a great piece on this
00:32:06.040 whole thing by the writer charlie warzell's a writer for the new york times and it's a newsletter
00:32:12.580 called the internet is flat three-dimensional human beings can't thrive in a one-dimensional
00:32:18.000 space so they say the kemper event is an instance of context collapse happening on multiple fronts
00:32:24.460 time audience at once there's a problematic group there's an event that happened 21 years ago with
00:32:31.380 visual documentation there's a well-known but not a-list celebrity there's a random tweet i believe
00:32:37.820 the user who kicked this off had roughly 800 twitter followers that gets some pickup and sends
00:32:43.220 people digging around online these factors cause an old article to go viral like the 2014 one and
00:32:50.000 leads Twitter's curation team to attempt to turn the conversation into something helpful.
00:32:55.920 Also in this article is probably the first time I have ever agreed with Ben Shapiro. Never thought
00:33:02.740 I would say that. But the quote reads, all of these questions reflect the nuances of a situation.
00:33:08.680 And all of these questions are also irrelevant because the ecosystem in which the broader
00:33:13.880 conversation is conducted flattens them all into nothingness. She is either a KKK queen or an 0.82
00:33:21.460 unfairly maligned cancer culture victim or some complicated muddle mix of the two which isn't 0.97
00:33:27.540 interesting enough to hold a headline and so is usually discarded in favor of one of the binary
00:33:32.720 options. And so Kemper becomes the momentary main character of Twitter. Within minutes it ends up
00:33:39.240 not being about Kemper at all. She's just the latest place filler in people's large cultural
00:33:44.400 war. It looks like this. Quote Ben Shapiro, there is not a single iota of evidence that
00:33:50.480 Ellie Kemper is racist. So naturally, Twitter is trending her and blue checks are calling her a 1.00
00:33:55.680 KKK princess. What absolute garbage? Of course, that piece will be linked in the show notes if 1.00
00:34:01.180 you want to read the whole thing. That was such a great article and I think it really taps into
00:34:05.200 is something that's continuing to happen more rapidly and more frequently on Twitter and
00:34:11.240 elsewhere. I also have an article I want to bring for show and tell. So it's called how Twitter
00:34:17.540 turned Kimmy Schmidt into a KKK queen. And it was written by EJ Dixon for Rolling Stone. This will
00:34:24.420 also be linked in the show notes. I'll just read out a snippet here. But it's worth asking exactly
00:34:31.000 why certain incendiary conversations gained traction on social platforms over other more
00:34:36.620 nuanced but arguably more valuable ones. It was easy to predict the cycle that would follow the
00:34:42.620 Kemper story once she started trending on Twitter. Outlets would dutifully write up the controversy 0.66
00:34:48.940 for another 24 or 48 hours thus ensuring more people would tweet about it and then
00:34:55.000 interest would plateau until a dubious photo or tweet from the next public figure came along.
00:35:01.000 This is in effect exactly what happened and it will happen again and again and again until
00:35:07.480 either we become more thoughtful about the content we consume and the narratives we choose
00:35:12.120 to spread or platforms become more thoughtful about how they choose to package and promote
00:35:17.460 them.
00:35:18.440 So I think another aspect of the conversation that we didn't touch on as much is just like
00:35:23.480 the duty of care that social media platforms may or may not have to their consumers and
00:35:29.640 their audiences. So for instance, I think Twitter should be able to monitor like misinformation
00:35:36.020 more so than valuing like the number of people engaging with tweets. But again, on the flip
00:35:42.400 side, you know, they are a private company. Do they really have this onus? I just think they
00:35:46.320 should be better people and do it. And on that note, Matt Galea from Pedestrian TV covered this,
00:35:52.520 of course, it's pop culture. But the American writer Charlie Warzel referenced the Pedestrian
00:35:57.960 tv article in the newsletter and saying that they really liked the disclaimer that matt put in the
00:36:04.140 article saying ellie kemper has yet to respond to the public outcry we at pedestrian tv are not
00:36:11.180 implying that ellie kemper has racist ties so they covered the twitter drama um they were literally
00:36:17.620 like putting tweets in the article um as many publications do these days and but also have
00:36:23.480 that disclaim and i think that is a good way for the publications to just put that out there and
00:36:30.360 be like this is a discourse that's happening but we're not also contributing to the discourse we're
00:36:35.700 just telling you the facts for sure massive difference between um reporting on an issue
00:36:41.160 and like playing into the issue um i was gonna say i really liked that rolling stone article
00:36:46.720 that you quoted from because it is true it's happening more and more often and it's so easy
00:36:52.820 to find yourself swept up in it and that's the big reason why now I'm really trying to take a
00:37:00.200 step back when I see something and I feel like an immediate reaction to it of like oh this is great
00:37:04.380 or oh my god how can this be happening like with the Grimes TikTok stitch it's been like wait this
00:37:10.960 is very emotive it could be true but like let's find some actual context before we're then spreading
00:37:17.200 that misinformation because you know some of these people could be you know they might not
00:37:23.080 know what they're talking about so true another week another recommendation what do you have for
00:37:32.160 us today so i'm recommending season one of feel good on netflix season two was just released this
00:37:39.320 week and i'm so excited to get into it and because i probably want people to discuss it with um i'm
00:37:45.580 recommending the first season that came out last year so everyone can jump on the feel good train
00:37:50.020 have you seen it or heard of it i've literally never heard of this so tell me sell it to me
00:37:55.800 okay so it's written by and stars may martin who's a canadian comedian say that three times
00:38:02.120 canadian comedian yeah um and feel good is a semi-autobiographical comedy series so it focuses
00:38:09.020 around the comedian may who lives in london and meets upper middle class woman george played by
00:38:16.480 charlotte richie so the show follows their meeting and their romance and it discusses sexuality
00:38:21.940 because george is yet to be fully out that's a big theme of the shows like that being ashamed
00:38:27.080 to tell your friends and family about your partner um gender fluidity drug addiction is a massive
00:38:32.820 theme as well that may struggles with and just queer romance in general um i love the first
00:38:39.860 season i binged it in the first lockdown i can't remember they're all blending but one of the
00:38:44.760 lockdowns watched in like two days because it's just so beautifully written and i'm really looking
00:38:51.160 forward to seeing what the second series will bring to their character development it's just
00:38:55.780 such a moving show it's one of those shows where like nothing insane happens but like you just
00:39:02.420 follow these characters and you fall in love with them and you're really rooting for them also a fun
00:39:06.800 fact if that um synopsis hasn't sold it to you yet may's mom in the show is played by lisa
00:39:14.480 kudrow aka phoebe from friends so it's nice to see her in a different role and yeah i'm probably
00:39:21.200 going to start season two tonight so get on it so i can talk to people about it i can't believe i
00:39:26.540 haven't heard of this because it looks so good you have um you have sold me and I looked up
00:39:31.920 just some photos from it and you know when you can just tell from the vibe of like a tv show just
00:39:37.060 from the photos and you're like yeah like they've got some like indie shots and neon lighting and
00:39:42.460 I'm like yeah that's up my alley so hopefully we can talk about it together and what have you loved
00:39:48.740 this week yeah I've been on a book spree and been reading a lot so I wanted to recommend one I
00:39:54.620 finished like a couple weeks ago. It is called Emotional Female and it is by Yumiko Kadota.
00:40:01.340 So I adore this memoir and it's basically about like the toxic culture of bullying and overwork
00:40:07.480 that junior doctors can experience in the workplace. And yeah, so that does sound intense
00:40:13.400 and it is a pretty intense book. But weirdly, I don't know if this is selfish or not, because of
00:40:18.740 course I'm not in the medicine field. So it was almost like a bit of reality escape for me because
00:40:24.220 it was just so I guess disjointed from my personal life um it's a book that really sucks you straight
00:40:30.220 in it gets your heart pounding and grips you to the page I found it yeah just like a really
00:40:35.880 thrilling read also um Yumiko is Japanese and kind of she talks about her upbringing and her
00:40:42.840 childhood and how she was always like the model student top of her class really skilled and
00:40:47.780 dedicated I was gonna say something that like we as ambitious women can relate to but that feels
00:40:53.560 kind of braggy but I don't know I think a lot of people can kind of relate to that those traits and
00:40:59.360 you know working hard should potentially like hit your dream job because working in like plastic
00:41:05.620 surgery was something that she always wanted to do so yeah it was really great and quite I guess
00:41:11.900 confronting to hear about her experience in the public hospital system especially when it's so
00:41:18.680 closer home she works in Melbourne and Sydney and so it was really quite outrageous and of course
00:41:25.980 adding the intersection of her being Japanese as well she encountered a lot of racism and sexism
00:41:32.280 regularly by you know co-workers and patients which was again distressing to read but above
00:41:40.860 that I would recommend this book and I think after you read the whole thing it is quite life-affirming
00:41:46.660 as well. I would recommend this to people who are studying or work in the medical field but if
00:41:55.740 you're not up for a big read at the moment I mean it's only 400 pages but I would also recommend
00:42:00.980 Shameless's interview with Yumiko which introduced me to the book to begin with.
00:42:07.340 Interesting I didn't realize that it was a memoir I thought it was just a from the cover I thought
00:42:11.920 was a fiction so yeah really keen to read that one sounds really good it was lovely chatting
00:42:17.400 with you jazz yeah it's so nice to do something in lockdown chat to you through screen as usual
00:42:24.040 but we'll be back in your ears next week keep well maybe give us a review we love them
00:42:30.400 and we'll catch up with you next week bye