Culture Club - Alysa Liu's Joyful Nihilism, A Spiritual Lorde Experience and Manon Splits From Katseye

00:00:00.000 Our spiritual lord experience, Manon's splits from cat's eye, and how figure skater Alyssa

00:00:09.900 Liu's gold medal win is shifting culture.

00:00:12.780 I'm Maggie Zhao.

00:00:13.780 And I'm Jasmine Wallace.

00:00:15.100 And you're listening to Culture Club, where two writers and editors chat about pop culture,

00:00:20.080 current affairs, the internet, and our lives.

00:00:22.700 today we're on the lands of the Wurundjeri Woiwurrung people of the Kulin nations we

00:00:33.580 would like to pay our respects to elders past and present and extend this to any

00:00:37.560 Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander listeners today

00:00:40.320 Mags I was sadly away for your birthday this weekend and we haven't had a call yet

00:00:49.320 how was your birthday weekend how are you feeling being 27? I had such a good birthday weekend thank

00:00:57.300 you very much so I am now freshly 27 and I was so lucky this year my birthday fell on a weekend

00:01:03.720 and it actually started Friday night so some of my oldest high school friends they surprised me

00:01:10.540 with an outing on Friday night and I didn't know what we were doing and I got taken to a magic show

00:01:18.040 that's so on brand for you it was so invigorating it was so much fun it was at this random hotel 0.99

00:01:26.020 and as we're sitting down the crowd was a hodgepodge of people like children elderly like 0.99

00:01:33.900 and I looked around I was like oh my god I know what this vibe is this vibe feels like we are on 1.00

00:01:38.300 a cruise oh my god yeah which you've experienced yes I have been on a cruise once don't know if

00:01:46.600 I'd go back. But the magic show, is that the photo that you posted on Instagram with like the

00:01:51.560 cocktail? Cause it looks chic. Okay. That was like a pre-drink. That was classy. That was

00:01:56.880 afterwards. They actually said no photos allowed in there. So I have no proof. I really wanted to

00:02:03.700 be picked, but I think it was, I was too eager, but I loved it. I love being, um, mesmerized,

00:02:09.020 spellbound, uh, in a state of disbelief, what have you. And the guy was great. Like he was

00:02:14.300 charismatic but not too like over the top and he was like self-aware it was great guys I would

00:02:19.700 highly recommend a magic show where was this in Melbourne it was at like the Hyatt or some random

00:02:25.360 hotel my friend apparently just literally googled like Melbourne things to do so just google just

00:02:33.060 google magic show that's so cute though it's so it's kind of rogue for 27 but it's on brand and

00:02:39.420 then I saw you did like a floral arranging with some friends. Oh my God. I know Debra that you

00:02:45.260 weren't there. You were in Brizzy. And I had friends over for a garden lunch because the

00:02:51.760 weather was so nice. But then the main thing was I wanted to buy heaps of flowers and then get

00:02:58.260 people to make their own bouquets. So that's what we did. And it was so fun. And I think like having

00:03:03.980 an activity is what's missing from so many of our birthdays these days we just like get around

00:03:09.620 we eat and we drink and we chat which is obviously so much fun but like why not do an activity

00:03:14.240 there's the thing at the moment of like rejecting the catch-up friendships so like we as adults

00:03:21.480 don't make enough memories like make enough new memories or play which we will talk about later

00:03:26.720 but I think that's so cool to like you're making new memories with your friends like even though

00:03:32.940 sitting around and drinking talking is a memory but I just feel like a couple weeks ago we went

00:03:37.820 to a friend's 30th on her farm and like we were playing pickleball and I was thinking like it's

00:03:44.060 been so long since I've like played in that way as an adult you just get so caught up in like let's

00:03:49.220 just go for wine and pasta and like just chill like go to the movies but it's really nice when

00:03:54.140 you have an activity to do with your friends and oftentimes these activities obviously cost money

00:03:59.400 and I feel like that's a big deterrent but I think I probably brought it up on the podcast when me and

00:04:04.440 my friends did this this was a few months ago when we were at the park we played what's the time Mr

00:04:08.980 Wolf that's free guys you can do that you have free will you don't need to go to like a bowling

00:04:14.740 alley or lazy or something no but that's also my favorite thing at the moment there's um I think

00:04:20.000 it's all across Melbourne perhaps even Australia look it up $15 on Monday after a certain time

00:04:25.660 unlimited bowling at strikes i think not sponsored guys do a little google but i did it once with

00:04:32.140 tom a couple weeks ago and it was genuinely one of the best monday nights i've had in a long time

00:04:36.760 yeah laurie and i once we got given these like vouchers for strike bowling yes and we just

00:04:41.260 randomly were in the city we're like let's just go in and like we played two games of bowling

00:04:45.500 just the two of us and it was so cute and fun and then we're just like anyway what should we do now

00:04:50.460 bring back activities like that not to get straight into culture club stuff but like

00:04:54.080 I think it's a result of like everything costing so much more money these days and people just like

00:05:00.840 yeah not spending the money on those activities or not having um disposable income to do those

00:05:05.640 things but it's worth it you know we'll pay like $200 for a concert ticket but if you spent like

00:05:10.140 you know a fraction of that on like a weekend event with your friends yeah well speaking of

00:05:14.720 concert tickets we both went to law this weekend on separate nights and I actually only got my

00:05:20.180 ticket on resale the day before I went and I was umming and ahhing for a while but I am literally

00:05:28.040 so happy I went genuinely one of the best nights ever one of the best concerts I've been to

00:05:33.780 and it was genuinely like a spiritual awakening I 100% agree it I said on my Instagram story like

00:05:42.200 went to church last night it felt so so spiritual one of the best concerts I've ever been to as well

00:05:47.880 Yeah. And I was in GA and I think, I don't think I've danced or sweated that much at a concert in

00:05:54.360 so long. I will also say I was at Laneway the week before, also felt akin to that. So I've had two

00:06:00.140 weeks in a row of amazing, like communal. Tom was like, I just, he was, he went to Laneway with me

00:06:06.600 and he's like, I just want to be part of monoculture. And it was like that thing of having

00:06:10.760 a shared experience with these like hundreds of strangers, essentially. It's what we need in our

00:06:16.060 soul that's why I spend so much money on concert tickets because and why I always will go GA

00:06:21.440 standing like we were seated last night because those are the only tickets I could get and I

00:06:25.800 remember at the time feeling a little like oh it's like second best to be standing like or sitting in

00:06:31.280 the seats but um yeah usually I will be like standing like Lady Gaga was standing Oasis

00:06:38.320 standing like I reckon once every two to two months three months going to those concerts

00:06:43.260 and just yeah experiencing a crowd like that and yeah you're tired like you're standing for three

00:06:48.300 hours and there's a few comments going around like oh I'm too old I don't know I think it's

00:06:52.700 because I'm like 30 this year like a few peers are like I'm too old to do that now like I don't

00:06:58.360 want to stand and I'm like you're yeah you're tired but like it's so worth it when you're it's

00:07:01.960 literally euphoric when you're in that moment with hundreds of people around you and I felt

00:07:06.720 that last night even being in the stands literally I thought I would cry I'm an open crier I thought

00:07:15.040 I would cry on a couple of different songs like ribs I was like oh I know I maybe I should bring

00:07:20.200 tissues but I didn't I started crying at buzz cut season and I didn't stop for the rest of the concert

00:07:26.740 a blubbering mess I can imagine oh I like Laurie and Lizzie were with me with me and Lizzie's

00:07:35.900 husband Charlie I just was like a tap I wasn't like sobbing but I just started like a few tears

00:07:40.860 here and there and then it was like a faucet like I just couldn't stop and I think it's the yeah like

00:07:45.960 that spiritual experience of I posted it on Culture Club's Instagram account of literally

00:07:51.760 growing up with this woman like I'm exactly the same age as Lord I was in year 12 when she released

00:07:58.040 her or year 11 when she released her um SoundCloud EP like I listened to her on SoundCloud found her

00:08:05.400 through tumblr been with her every step of the way each album has like such vivid vivid memories

00:08:10.200 like when melodrama came out i was like 21 soul power was like covid vibes and yeah every single

00:08:16.980 album had like the most vivid memories and it was crazy it felt so cathartic like i walked away last

00:08:21.460 night feeling like i've closed a chapter on like my 20s and like my teenage years and i felt i felt

00:08:28.060 like a literal release of like a new decade coming in like where are we at and seeing lord in her

00:08:34.140 prime like that laurie's not the biggest fan like he likes her music he's just like not as big of a

00:08:39.240 fan as i am and he was like it was like watching an artist like in their prime just like such a

00:08:45.060 privilege to experience yeah and i think i understand why i loved it so much because i

00:08:51.320 don't go to that many i guess stadium arena bigger concerts i go to a lot of smaller gigs and i love

00:08:57.540 the intimacy of that but what lord brought on stage was that intimacy like i don't know about

00:09:02.620 you but she said that she was wearing these pair of jeans and she said that she found them in her

00:09:06.140 grandpa's house and she brought so much of herself to it while it was still such a magnificent like

00:09:12.200 show and spectacle it felt so personal and that's just that was amazing i didn't think that could

00:09:18.360 happen right like i loved going to the eras tour but that was something so completely different

00:09:23.840 yeah we were saying that last night as well it was like really intimate despite being in a stadium

00:09:28.840 and Rod Laver Arena isn't that massive of a stadium.

00:09:33.900 But also Lizzie and Charlie had seen Lorde on her last tour,

00:09:38.360 which was at Sydney Myer Music Bowl.

00:09:40.120 Sorry, this is such like a Melbourne conversation,

00:09:41.960 but Sydney Myer Music Bowl for Solar Power,

00:09:44.600 which was like such a more like chills, like in the afternoon,

00:09:48.320 like they're on a grassy hill, so different to last night.

00:09:52.040 And I really like the point I want to bring up as well.

00:09:55.080 She performed a song from her first EP

00:09:57.700 and she said like I didn't want to leave any of my former self behind for this tour like when I was

00:10:05.300 thinking about what to play and so she said like I've been writing music since I was 15 there's a

00:10:10.800 lot that you kind of look back on and cringe at or whatever but I didn't want to leave any of my

00:10:15.860 past self behind in this and then she played the song she's like oh I'm gonna need some help it's

00:10:20.060 like quite a hard song to sing and I just thought that was so special like in the culture that we

00:10:25.380 live in of always looking ahead and trying to be better and bigger and better and i think some

00:10:30.760 artists often like can cringe at their older work i'm thinking right now of like troy savant's blue

00:10:37.240 neighborhood which he has like the aesthetic he's like rejected it like in the past he's now doing

00:10:42.720 like a 10-year re-release album thing so that's nice but yeah there's been some discourse about

00:10:47.880 artists like that who are trying to change lanes a bit or change aesthetics and they reject the

00:10:52.240 past self. So I thought that was really nice of Lorde to, yeah, reference her past self. And I

00:10:58.220 think that's something we can all do more of. Do you know who I think could do more of that?

00:11:03.740 Who? I am waiting for the day that Jacob Elordi reclaims the kissing booth.

00:11:09.600 We're never forgetting, Jacob. Don't think that we will.

00:11:13.240 Yes. Like, don't forget where you came from. That's what you need to like.

00:11:17.000 It's great to look ahead, but don't forget where you came from.

00:11:22.240 manon bannerman is taking a hiatus from global girl group cat's eye for quote health and

00:11:34.360 well-being reasons jazz i saw this news when i woke up this morning and i gasped so loudly

00:11:40.640 this is very important to me yeah because you were a huge fan of pop star academy like you

00:11:46.340 referenced it on the podcast when it came out which i never watched yes so for those who don't

00:11:51.080 know that's that netflix tv reality show where they actually created cat's eye it's like a

00:11:56.160 competition show where they chose the members and like they went through training and stuff

00:12:00.120 and i loved it i was along for the ride and then i've been quite a big fan of cat's eye the band

00:12:06.480 since then i am an icon that's a fan you know fandom name but one member already taking a

00:12:14.560 hiatus when the band actually launched back in 2024 is quite big news. There's so many of them

00:12:21.980 though. Okay. Okay. There are six of them, which I guess is a lot, but also there's more in other

00:12:29.960 K-pop bands. So this was a quote that was put out by the Hybe Geffen label that owns Cat's Eye.

00:12:36.540 It read, after open and thoughtful conversations together, we are sharing that Manon will be

00:12:41.220 taking a temporary hiatus from group activities to focus on her health and well-being. We fully

00:12:46.900 support this decision. What background information you need to know is that on the show, Manon like

00:12:53.660 gained a reputation for herself in the sense that the editing made her seem like she constantly

00:13:00.560 missed rehearsals. Manon has since spoken out about that kind of conversation and she talked

00:13:08.940 about how her need for rest was misconstrued for laziness and the thing is she comes from

00:13:14.040 Switzerland whereas you know most of these girls or at least you know this show was based in the

00:13:19.160 US and she really has spoken openly about the differences in work culture in the US compared

00:13:24.940 to Switzerland. Manon told the cut America has a very different culture when it comes to work-life

00:13:30.380 balance you guys are all about grind and hustle in Switzerland if you're sick you take a day off 0.93

00:13:35.800 no one's going to expect you to work being called lazy especially as a black girl is not fair now I

00:13:42.280 feel like I always need to put in extra work to prove something even though I really don't so this

00:13:47.240 is the big kicker I think of this conversation that Manon cops a lot of slack again I'm in the 0.78

00:13:53.120 fandom I see the conversations happening and I definitely do think there's a racialized element 0.59

00:13:58.540 in this conversation she is the only black girl in the group and it does not feel fair that she 0.85

00:14:05.160 cops a lot of criticism for being lazy or not working hard enough. Is it also like what they

00:14:12.520 said, like the cultural thing of like Switzerland versus US? I think so. A lot of these girls,

00:14:17.940 they come from varied backgrounds. So some of them are from the US. Some of them are from like 1.00

00:14:23.120 South Korea and like their backgrounds will vary. They're all women of color.

00:14:28.280 And I don't know. I feel like, yeah, I understand where you grew up does differ, 1.00

00:14:33.420 but she's been in this world for a few years like I think she expects this level of I guess

00:14:39.940 pressure now is that fair to say yeah but also like if you've been in it for a few years maybe

00:14:46.160 that's your limit like after two three years of like grinding to that level then you're like

00:14:52.580 okay I'm ready to take the break so we wrote out the official statement that was put out but

00:14:58.240 Manon herself actually took to Weverse Direct Messages to address her fans directly and this

00:15:04.640 one's interesting because it feels like her statement differs to their statement and she said

00:15:10.100 quote I want you to hear this from me I'm healthy I'm okay and I'm taking care of myself

00:15:15.680 sometimes things unfold in ways we don't fully control but I'm trusting the bigger picture

00:15:21.180 thank you for standing by me I love you endlessly and can't wait to see you again

00:15:26.220 i'm not surprised by this at all because cat's eye performed at the grammys you know in that like

00:15:32.280 medley of the best new artists along with like addison ray and um alex warren people were kind

00:15:37.860 of saying like when they're all just waiting for their time to like go solo like when you have

00:15:43.220 these manufactured bands like one direction and cat's eye spice girls even is one of those where

00:15:49.080 they're like either a competition or they're all manufactured like they didn't come to that group

00:15:53.700 out of passion like they were manufactured to be together so obviously you can appreciate that but

00:16:00.020 I'm sure majority of them like wanted a solo career and then you are like put into this

00:16:04.720 especially like a big girl group like this or acts like Fifth Harmony as well like all those girls

00:16:09.680 were so keen to like go into their solo careers some more successful than others which I think

00:16:14.980 is just like the nature of it same as One Direction so yeah I'm not surprised by this news at all even

00:16:20.320 as someone who isn't a cat's eye fan i also think like performing at the ground like yes it was a

00:16:24.200 medley it was like short not the whole song but yeah that's like a great achievement i don't know

00:16:28.180 what do you do you think that they will continue as is or well the major difference between like

00:16:34.720 fifth harmony and one direction and a band like this is that these girls chose to go on a show

00:16:39.300 that would put them in a group whereas the others didn't they went on x-factor to be solo artists

00:16:43.680 okay that's good context yeah that's the biggest one but of course i think a lot of them do have

00:16:48.680 solo star aspirations for instance Lara like writes her own music but I think there is a lot

00:16:54.740 of clout to be found in big global groups as well like look at BTS or whatever I don't think it's

00:17:00.880 got that stigma as it did when it just came to One Direction but I guess this news shows a bigger

00:17:06.360 kind of issue around these groups and how much pressure is put on them their schedules and

00:17:11.520 workload is like wild so hopefully this makes i don't know it more responsible and i don't know

00:17:20.160 i do think she'll return but let's just see just a quick side note before we end this segment did

00:17:25.600 you see the news from belfast this week where a bunch of mums paid like i don't know 80 pounds

00:17:32.180 to go to like a k-pop tribute night like a concert at a stadium and all of them thought that it was

00:17:37.840 like k-pop demon hunters all of them were talking on tiktok like i'm so disappointed in this like

00:17:43.720 the k-pop tribute and like so many people are ripping these poor moms to shred being like you

00:17:48.920 know that k-pop is a genre of music like it's not just k-pop demon hunters which is like this

00:17:54.740 massive like phenomenon for gen alpha um have you seen any of that i did not see that i'm gonna have 0.97

00:18:02.720 to send you the tiktoks it's so funny these like irish moms being like i am shocked and appalled

00:18:07.560 like i want a refund because i thought it was going to be or they didn't say k-pop demon hunters but

00:18:12.340 they were like that is not k-pop and it is k-pop like they're just a bunch of performers like

00:18:17.300 playing k-pop music on stage so it's kind of giving the glasgow willie wonka experience

00:18:22.180 U.S. figure skater Alyssa Liu has taken over our feeds and our hearts after winning gold in the

00:18:38.280 women's single and team event in figure skating at the Winter Olympics. Oh my god I'm so glad we're

00:18:45.860 speaking about this this has been one of the highlights of my week watching her perform of

00:18:51.500 course she performed to Promise by Leve and just that relationship and like that link of these two

00:18:58.620 young Asian artists was just like life-changing for me so that wasn't actually like her winning

00:19:05.440 performance was it the Leve that was her short one that was like her I forgot the proper term

00:19:10.360 but like they do a short one and then their longer one sorry we are no sporting expert experts so

00:19:16.260 you're right she did have like another piece that she performed to as well yeah so the other musical

00:19:21.480 moment was a version of Donna Summer's 1978 MacArthur Park and it was produced by Italian

00:19:29.040 disco legend Giorgio Moroder but people aren't talking about the music we're just talking about

00:19:33.820 the music she became the first American woman to win figure skating's biggest prize in 24 years

00:19:41.800 and she's only 20 years old from West Oakland in the US a huge news for the US full stop but while

00:19:48.940 her performance was incredible and the gold medal is of course making headlines we are more enamored

00:19:54.420 about the cultural shift that she is bringing to not just sport but to young people in general and

00:20:00.740 to our social media timelines. And before we get into like all the details about how she performs

00:20:07.480 and how she curates I guess her sporting life I think even on the outset you can tell that she's

00:20:13.300 doing it differently right she's got her dyed almost like skunk tail like hair she's quite

00:20:18.860 alternative she just embodies herself so seamlessly that just by looking at her you can tell that she

00:20:26.620 really stands for who she is Alyssa made her winter olympics debut in 2022 at the Beijing games and

00:20:34.100 she was just 16 years old when she made that debut she ended up finishing sixth which is still

00:20:39.500 amazing achievement but after those olympics she actually quit the sport citing mental fatigue

00:20:45.760 she said i'm here to announce that i'm retiring from skating i started skating when i was five

00:20:50.480 so that's about 11 years on the ice i'm only 16 i want to do other stuff so in her time off she did

00:20:57.240 things like spending time with family she got her driver's license and she applied to college

00:21:02.640 So she's enrolled at UCLA and she studied psychology.

00:21:06.940 But it was during a Lake Tahoe ski trip when she was led back to the ice

00:21:11.840 and she slowly began to return.

00:21:14.860 So Brian Armand Graham of The Guardian wrote, quote,

00:21:19.440 over time she rediscovered a love for skating,

00:21:21.980 not as a competitive pursuit but a vehicle for self-expression.

00:21:25.600 Her father, Arthur, who had poured untold sums,

00:21:28.640 half a million to a million US dollars,

00:21:30.940 into molding his daughter into the next Michelle Kwan,

00:21:34.060 another Chinese-American skating icon from California,

00:21:36.920 would no longer be part of the team.

00:21:39.240 Alyssa Liu would be the CEO of Alyssa Liu Inc.,

00:21:42.580 having final say over everything from her costumes to her music

00:21:46.120 to her diet to her training schedule.

00:21:48.480 Most importantly, the results wouldn't matter.

00:21:50.700 She also said,

00:21:51.860 I get to pick my own program music.

00:21:54.100 I get to help with the creative process of the program.

00:21:56.840 If I feel like I'm skating too much, I'll back down.

00:21:59.420 if I feel like I'm not skating enough I'll ramp it up no one's gonna starve me or tell me what I

00:22:04.600 can and can't eat I thought this was so refreshing and it actually reminded me a lot of you Maggie

00:22:10.100 like your attitude towards work like you are an ambitious person but I think you're so good at

00:22:15.400 being like if I don't want to do something I'm not going to do it or like if I think I'm yeah

00:22:19.600 doing if I'm like going too hard on something I can pull back and like I'm not going to feel

00:22:23.980 ashamed about that thank you I do really love the values that Alyssa's putting out there I think it's

00:22:32.200 so courageous of her to like return so soon after that she publicly said she was quitting as well

00:22:38.540 I've got conflicting thoughts right because it's all well and good to say this where it's like oh

00:22:43.740 I don't care about like where I'm being placed or like I like you know it's chill but then you're

00:22:48.920 literally the world number one essentially like you've won you're the best in the world in this

00:22:53.040 category so is it easier to say the prior things of like oh I don't mind like where I am because

00:22:59.180 you're the best but she wasn't world number one before this so that's yeah right yeah that's what

00:23:04.860 everyone is saying about how special this is because she was sixth in her last olympics

00:23:10.000 obviously she's a couple years older now and she came back part of team usa's figure skating team

00:23:16.460 so obviously you like have hopes and dreams but like I think the way that she went about her

00:23:23.440 performances was just filled with so much joy and as like I think people are saying like as a result

00:23:28.560 of her joy and taking the pressure off is that how she became number one yeah no 100% and that's

00:23:34.520 what you can feel through the performance like it's artistry she's so lost in the music there

00:23:38.700 are so many beautiful stills of her performance where she's just like I don't know completely

00:23:43.140 lost in the performance and the music and she it doesn't feel like a sport you're not it doesn't

00:23:47.920 feel like you're watching a sport at the olympics it feels like you're watching a performance so i

00:23:53.200 found an essay on substack about this topic by gail ator who is the founder of grown kid and

00:23:59.440 grown kid is a social club for 18 to 24 year olds and they are trying to help make young adulthood

00:24:05.080 less lonely through community and weekly play-based gatherings so i think taking this essay with a

00:24:10.880 little bit of grain of salt like that this essay like is what this person and founder is like

00:24:15.120 passionate about and like they're trying to build their own community so of course like this works

00:24:19.820 in their favor taking that with a bit of grain of salt but i thought it was really interesting

00:24:23.580 the points that they made so in this essay titled the rise of play among youth culture

00:24:28.120 gail wrote that there's a new cultural shift emerging amongst gen z and that's the rise of

00:24:33.180 playfulness so he says that you know it's been a decade since we've seen all right movements come

00:24:40.000 to fruition. And we've had COVID and AI and young people are kind of still trying to take control

00:24:46.520 of a future that is like notoriously spiraling out of control or like it's less controllable

00:24:52.580 than ever. They also sat a few like studies on play as a tool, which I thought was really

00:24:59.060 interesting. So he wrote from a psychological and neuroscience perspective, play is a voluntary,

00:25:04.900 intrinsically motivated activity where the process takes priority over the outcome it is one of the

00:25:11.520 most critical mechanisms through which the developing brain wires itself for social

00:25:15.740 competence emotional regulation creativity and cognitive flexibility he also says that the

00:25:21.360 defining characteristic that separates play from non-play is the presence of safety and like doing

00:25:27.500 something voluntarily which and absence of a fixed outcome which i think is what alissa was trying to

00:25:34.160 do here they also write in adulthood the need for play doesn't disappear but is often suppressed

00:25:39.500 and its decline is increasingly associated with burnout rigid thinking and social isolation

00:25:45.500 so he kind of compares this to Alyssa and to see her thrive through play so he also writes to see

00:25:53.340 a young person self-actualize and free herself from societal expectations to do things on her

00:25:58.780 own terms and win by doing so it's invigorating I guess that's what we're talking about at the

00:26:04.140 top of the episode as well is like play is so underrated in adults. And I think it's something

00:26:10.160 that we tend to do on culture club. Like we have been doing this for five and a half, nearly six

00:26:15.980 years, which is crazy. And we didn't set out being like, we are going to start a business together

00:26:21.820 and we're going to have this many listeners and this many followers. Like we just literally were

00:26:25.960 creating something and playing together. Obviously we had hopes for it, but when you're less attached

00:26:32.240 the outcome. I think it might take you longer to get there when you don't have like a business

00:26:36.020 plan and you're like, are we hitting our KPIs or something? But I think it can create a more

00:26:42.480 authentic like result. Yeah. I think a good example of this, and that's why I love the

00:26:47.540 definition of play that you gave was that I love doing crafty stuff, but I don't think I'm very

00:26:53.420 good at it, quote unquote, like good traditional sense. So I like painting or I like when I play

00:26:58.420 with clay and genuinely I love the process of making but most times and I'm not just saying it

00:27:04.300 you know most times the end result is like bad sometimes I'll make a clay thing or something I'm

00:27:08.920 like I don't even like that's I'm not keeping that but it wasn't about the product it was about the

00:27:14.160 process yeah another talking point that Alyssa has brought up I guess in the zeitgeist is Gen Z's

00:27:21.180 nihilism so as we said like Gen Z is known as like a really pessimistic generation we're like

00:27:26.820 drenched in irony. We are really nihilistic about the future, whether it's climate change,

00:27:32.520 cost of living, et cetera, et cetera. We don't need to go. Everyone listening knows what we're

00:27:36.420 talking about. Um, but through Alyssa, I think it's being rebranded in a more positive way. So

00:27:42.200 it's not, it's not nihilism, but it's like, if nothing matters and we're just floating on a

00:27:47.480 spinning rock, then why not do exactly what we want to do? Yeah. That reminds me of a concept

00:27:53.040 called Sunny Nihilism and Melbourne writer Wendy Seifert has a book on that and like that's totally

00:27:58.660 I think aligns with Alyssa and her kind of approach to life and her career and it's something that I

00:28:06.440 think a lot of us can benefit from. One Twitter user wrote obsessed with her Addison Rae and

00:28:12.900 other young people who totally reject apathy slash nihilism self-confidence and relentless

00:28:17.880 optimism are in baby hell yeah like don't be afraid to be seen trying and like caring for

00:28:24.480 things we also like I think the zeitgeist also kind of felt we were going this direction after

00:28:31.180 timothy chalamet's speech when he was like I want to be one of the greats like I'm trying here I'm

00:28:36.460 really like going for it I love that like I think it's definitely on brand for you and I

00:28:41.880 and it's really nice because Alyssa's only 20 so it's really nice to see like an even younger

00:28:47.200 person doing that. And the third point I wanted to bring up regarding Alyssa is in an interview

00:28:52.680 with 60 Minutes USA, Alyssa said, I love struggling, actually. It makes me feel alive.

00:28:59.080 That has also been taking off on my Twitter feed. People were really resonating with that

00:29:03.820 because I think as a result of late stage capitalism, we are really anti-work because,

00:29:10.600 you know, people can't afford basic necessities. They can't afford their rent

00:29:14.000 on the salary that they have when they're working 40 hours a week so as a result we're like oh I've

00:29:18.920 got to go to work or like work is seen as like a chore but I think it's nice to reframe work in a

00:29:26.620 way that is like when you're working for something sometimes that can be the work does that make

00:29:33.940 sense can you explain it further working on like a creative project okay I'm using culture club as

00:29:38.980 an example again like the product that people see like the episode being published and the social

00:29:43.580 media posts going up they don't see like the work that we do like right like researching writing the

00:29:48.980 notes and like organizing calls and stuff like that that is also the work but there's like also

00:29:55.640 can be joy in that because it's like a level of friction and like we are creating something

00:30:01.200 yeah oh this is so hard I actually find my like it's hard for my head to wrap around this concept

00:30:07.340 to be honest so I don't fully understand it because I think I've done so much work to unlearn

00:30:12.760 the romanticization of work and like career so I've almost gone in the opposite direction of

00:30:18.720 trying not to place any emphasis or I am essentially vilifying work in many regards

00:30:24.540 because I don't want to put it on a pedestal so maybe is this kind of like a medium in a way or

00:30:31.000 something yeah I think so it's like when we write as well like when we write articles or essays or

00:30:37.240 whatever sometimes like you get the fulfillment from like doing the work rather than like the

00:30:44.280 end result that everyone sees online on like reads in a magazine like the work it's like

00:30:49.980 fulfilling for your soul and like like Alyssa's saying like I'm struggling through I'm struggling

00:30:55.520 for like you know in your training in your diet and whatever it is but like that friction of like

00:31:02.160 being somewhere and wanting to get somewhere else is like what makes her feel alive yeah and

00:31:07.060 I think to me when I'm really finding fulfillment and enjoyment in work I feel like I don't think

00:31:14.600 about it as explicitly as work sometimes so yeah in that quote you pulled out but it's like it's

00:31:19.860 art it's play it's hobby and I don't think work has to have that big umbrella term like it doesn't

00:31:25.400 have to be this like big lording thing over our lives like it's maybe better to remove the

00:31:31.860 definition of work or like I don't know to separate work oh I don't know sorry this is

00:31:37.180 yeah no I knew what you're trying to say because sometimes again you coach club it's like this is

00:31:43.440 work right now like you and I are technically working but it doesn't feel like work because

00:31:48.640 we're enjoying it as like an art or a hobby I don't know is podcasting an art the quote that

00:31:55.360 Maggie is talking about as well is something I found on the career archetypes which is a

00:32:00.520 Instagram account that I really enjoy. Um, and that quote, this quote has come from Joel Lee

00:32:06.560 and that's from on the reclamation of the word work. And it says many regularly named the work

00:32:13.260 they are meant to be doing as art play or a hobby, believing that work is meant to deteriorate the

00:32:19.080 human spirit. Yet, if they understood that what they were doing was the work soon, they would

00:32:24.500 realize the word work can hold an entirely different meaning. I do think that is romanticizing

00:32:30.260 it a little bit but i i'm just thinking of like people who write a book right like you only see

00:32:35.660 like brie lee spoke about this on the podcast as well like you see the press tour you see the book

00:32:41.500 on the bookshelves you see all the glamour but like you don't see like the evening spent working

00:32:47.660 by yourself as well yeah but like that's also that feels like romanticizing the process in a way but

00:32:55.580 after you reread that quote my maybe i have newfound understanding a little bit of like

00:32:59.960 we can actually separate work from capitalism. Work doesn't have to be a dirty word. We can try

00:33:05.560 to separate it from like the constraints and industries of capitalism. Cause I don't want to

00:33:10.220 romanticize capitalism, but I can understand that like working on something that you love

00:33:16.280 or doing things and feeling that friction. Okay. I think we got there.

00:33:23.000 Thanks for unraveling that with us listeners.

00:33:25.800 so there's a few points that have come out of Alyssa Liu's like yeah her gold medal win and

00:33:32.880 it's just so refreshing to see I think like doing someone like clearly having so much fun

00:33:37.740 you know when she comes off the ice she's like let's fucking go like that's so joyful and I think

00:33:43.500 we're in late stage capitalism it's so easy to be like we're all working and no one can afford 0.92

00:33:49.240 anything which is true like I'm not discounting that at all but it's just refreshing to see a

00:33:54.540 20 year old. Yeah, like redefining work basically and joy. It's now time for Bookmarked where we

00:34:10.660 share something we've loved watching, reading or listening to this week. And you are up first,

00:34:15.380 Maggie. Yeah, I went to the cinemas and I saw this new film called Pillion. Had you heard of it?

00:34:24.540 i wish the listeners oh maybe they can if they're watching it was like the hand gesture was so funny

00:34:30.640 then i saw a poster for it when i was at the cinema this week and it was alexander skarsgård

00:34:37.360 in like this like suit thing and the colors were really bright so it did catch my attention i was

00:34:43.660 like what is that so tell me more i'm so excited to hear that's a that's a pretty good description

00:34:48.640 of the poster so this is a new film that's come out this year it's an erotic comedy drama film

00:34:55.120 okay and it definitely hits all those points it was directed by harry lighten and it's actually

00:35:01.140 based on a novel that was from 2020 that one was called box hill shout out melbourne different

00:35:07.120 box hill by adam mars jones and the premise of this i found so intriguing so essentially it

00:35:15.640 follows a timid gay man who meets this biker who is Alexander Skarsgård and he is and they enter

00:35:26.220 this like sub dom BDSM relationship and I think having the words like gay bikey sub dom makes a

00:35:34.660 really interesting tagline I was instantly intrigued and what I didn't know until afterwards

00:35:40.620 is that the timid gay man is played by the same actor

00:35:44.900 who plays Dudley Dursley. 0.98

00:35:47.440 Oh.

00:35:48.060 Uh-huh.

00:35:48.840 I did see him on the poster when we saw Mighty Supreme.

00:35:52.580 Yes.

00:35:52.920 Remember?

00:35:53.560 Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:35:54.700 That's Dudley from Harry Potter.

00:35:55.680 Oh, my God.

00:35:56.300 So, like, he's in an erotic movie.

00:35:58.640 Yeah, yeah.

00:35:59.200 And seeing Dudley in that, I was like, oh, my God, he –

00:36:01.540 I mean, sorry, the actor's name's Harry.

00:36:03.700 He is incredible.

00:36:05.780 And just seeing him in a movie like this,

00:36:07.760 I never thought I'd see the day.

00:36:09.180 it was beautiful it was moving it was very funny and I think as someone who's very separate from

00:36:15.300 like the world of BDSM I was like oh am I gonna like get it am I is it gonna be for me and I feel

00:36:21.360 like the way it starts of like it's like a Christmas movie vibes it's like oh no it's like

00:36:26.140 accessible for those who like don't know much about what's going on I would say it's super

00:36:32.140 horny it's super confronting in many ways but i think they do a good job of representing this

00:36:40.060 community um but yeah i think especially comparing it to something like withering heights where

00:36:45.400 there's like no nudity be ready for this one guys be ready oh my god there's so many good movies out

00:36:53.280 at the moment i want to go see that as well speaking of the moment we are seeing that this

00:36:58.240 week with our partners yes the charlie xcx mockumentary yeah i saw the trailer for that

00:37:04.180 at the movies this week and it looks so good i'm so excited and back to pillion i gave it four

00:37:09.640 stars i think it was great it does what great cinema does which is put you in the shoes of

00:37:15.480 somebody else's life that you might not have imagined yeah amazing four stars that's high

00:37:20.680 praise what are you recommending today this week i'm recommending man on the run which is a

00:37:27.640 documentary about paul mccartney of the beatles fame of course it is directed by morgan neville

00:37:33.080 and i saw an advanced screening of it like my mom i was in brisie for my dad's birthday my mom bought

00:37:39.840 us three tickets it was like one night only in the cinema at palace cinemas and we went on wednesday

00:37:46.640 night and it was a really really great documentary so it's basically what happens to paul mccartney

00:37:53.600 after he's left the Beatles he you know starts on a solo career he starts the band Wings he

00:37:59.040 marries um Linda McCartney but the way the documentary like weaves this life his life

00:38:06.320 together there's like interviews but it's not talking head style it's just their voices with

00:38:11.480 like all this archival footage and imagery and it's also really creative so there's some like

00:38:16.640 animation stuff going on and I just really enjoyed it I thought I am a Beatles fan like I'm a music

00:38:22.600 fan everyone knows that so i think like you do have to have a level of like caring about you

00:38:29.000 know the beatles to really enjoy it it was also a really inspiring documentary on creativity itself

00:38:37.200 of course he was in the most successful band of all time um one of and so therefore he had like

00:38:44.780 the funds and the uh exposure to like do whatever he wanted after that um but there's some really

00:38:51.460 interesting parts in it like where the band you know that he's forming he's working with different

00:38:56.360 artists and they are trying to make a living and he's just like let's all just be like he kind of

00:39:00.540 romanticizes like the the struggle on topic he romanticizes a bit of like i just want to be

00:39:06.280 performing like from the ground up again and like making barely any money and like we're just doing

00:39:11.700 the work kind of thing um so that's an interesting point in it and just archival footage that they

00:39:18.200 have is incredible so if you are into documentaries if you're into music if you are interested in

00:39:24.380 paul mccartney and the beatles then i'd 100 recommend so it's on amazon prime from february

00:39:31.180 27th um it's like pretty much gone straight to straight to streaming but it was really good

00:39:36.700 wow and he was involved in the in the making of this he was yeah and so yeah a lot of interviews

00:39:43.200 from him and i think he also was like executive producer on it so that's interesting as well it

00:39:48.620 also goes through like um john lennon's passing it's not a massive point in it but like that like

00:39:54.660 the motions after that him getting arrested in japan um all sorts of stuff so and even as like

00:40:00.560 a beatles fan there was a lot that i i knew top line but i it went deep in it so i thought it was

00:40:06.460 really interesting it's incredible to see that he's still i guess so active in the creation

00:40:11.820 the creative process despite it being in different ways now so thank you for that recommendation

00:40:17.760 thank you so much for listening to this episode today we had so much fun working on it

00:40:23.720 i hope that you had as much fun listening to it if you did please give us a little review

00:40:31.340 on our podcast or spotify review and we will talk to you next time see you later bye

00:40:41.820 Thank you.

Culture Club - February 23, 2026

Alysa Liu's Joyful Nihilism, A Spiritual Lorde Experience and Manon Splits From Katseye

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