00:08:25.120And then I went on to write two more books, All's Well and Rouge, and both of those books I ended up missing as well. But Bunny was still like really staying with me. And at around this time, like after All's Well came out, but before Rouge came out, that's when Bunny started having a life of its own on the internet.
00:08:45.140and it felt like oh my gosh well let me start thinking about how I might go back in in that
00:08:51.700case I mean if readers are responding to it this way maybe I have permission to to give in to this
00:08:57.140inclination that I already have to revisit and you know we see the bunnies through Sam's perspective
00:09:03.500and bunny you know Sam is the main character of bunny and she's the outsider and the bunnies are
00:09:08.520this clique and I wanted to break that open in this book I wanted to give the reader a chance
00:09:13.800to get to know the bunnies and I wanted to get to know the bunnies personally I just thought it
00:09:18.740would be really fun to look at the cult from the inside because from Sam's perspective it's a
00:09:24.320monolith you know they all love each other and they're just whatever they're just a little
00:09:29.360fascist but inside you know they're they're really they're super insecure and you know they're
00:09:35.140vulnerable and they they have affection for each other they have jealousy for each other there's
00:09:40.000a hierarchy within the group there's even an outsider in the group um and so i just i just
00:09:45.600thought it would be fun to kind of complicate them and break them open yeah what was that like i guess
00:09:51.400as you had put these characters essentially to rest you know pre prior to 2019 was it almost
00:09:57.400like cracking open like a coffin was it like revisiting an old friend that you haven't seen
00:10:01.760for years i think it's more like the second one um they were so alive to me like the the the
00:10:07.940characters were so alive because i think because the book was having a life online but also because
00:10:12.920i was still thinking about them you know um i still think about all of my characters all the
00:10:19.740time to be quite honest with you um i guess it's just my process um but i i really do kind of get
00:10:26.680to know them pretty intimately and they feel like real people hmm i wonder where the idea for bunny
00:10:31.440came very funny like I guess I sort of see my characters as my friends but anyway um yeah I
00:10:39.840it was so fun to inhabit the individual consciousness of each bunny and make discoveries
00:10:46.960it was and I thought I thought it might be challenging it wasn't the only thing that
00:10:52.440was challenging at first was breaking open the we um like just going from we to I because in
00:10:58.860bunny it's just a we and the bunnies you know when we went we inhabit the cult but going to i was at
00:11:04.880first it was a little scary i was like oh gosh can i really pull this off can i do their individual
00:11:09.400voices yeah and i could yeah i could yeah and the individual voices are so strong of course um like
00:11:16.580i love the way that each chapter like when we're hearing the um that narrator's chapter just like
00:11:24.080the writing and the lack of like obviously the bunnies are talking directly to Sam and
00:11:31.480retelling this story but the lack of speech marks and just the flow it sounds like yeah
00:11:37.880they really are talking to the reader talking to Sam and I think yeah it just adds that extra
00:11:43.700layer of connection to these characters that already had while they were a monolith they were
00:11:49.860quite defined characters of course as well there are a few kind of self-referential plot lines in
00:11:59.020the book for the listeners bunny's uh protagonist sam has published bunny herself which is kind of
00:12:05.740funny and we see the fallout from this why did you choose to break the fourth wall in that way
00:12:11.280because is it because it had a life of its own yeah i think so um and you know sam is um i always
00:12:19.400knew that bunny was her thesis like as we're in the novel bunny the story that she was going to
00:12:26.540write and turn in was that story that you know we're all reading um so i kind of knew that and
00:12:33.300so it just seemed like oh my god well i've got to challenge that like what if the bunnies actually
00:12:38.240read that what would they think of such you know such drama and uh and how would they think that
00:12:44.460they were perceived and um you know what corrections might they make and what um what
00:12:49.980claims to authorship would they insist on and um and that's kind of where the idea really came from
00:12:57.560it felt very very strongly that it would be very exciting for the bunnies to challenge
00:13:03.480sam's version of the story and and in order to challenge it they have to go back in time
00:13:09.040before they even are with Sam and tell the story of how they sort of became a cult and how they
00:13:16.080created this first man who they argue is far more beautiful and alive than anything that she could
00:13:23.500possibly make and that's that's their defense that you know she's not the true artist they are
00:13:28.600because they made Arius who is the bunny man that we get to meet and yeah oh my gosh he was so fun
00:13:33.920to write so yeah i mean the the structure and sort of the narrative device of telling the bunnies
00:13:39.980telling sam the story that kind of comes from frankenstein because frankenstein was a major
00:13:45.960inspiration for bunny and for this book and frankenstein has multiple narrators and multiple
00:13:51.140audiences and we get to hear from the creation so yeah in this book as well um following a similar
00:13:58.260line of thought uh the bunnies there's a few times when they lament like not wanting to write quote
00:14:04.820an oprah friendly book club book with the rise of weird girl lit as a genre do you feel this
00:14:11.880tension between writing a popular bestseller while still creating something that's subversive
00:14:17.740yeah that's a great question um i mean i don't think i i can i think the stories i write are
00:14:25.320just inherently going to be just charged and maybe a little polarizing because they really
00:14:31.680occupy a point of view and they commit fully to that point of view. And I, I have to do that. I
00:14:39.460like bold characters and I like inhabiting a mind very, very honestly. And I like going into the
00:14:48.780surreal. So my stories tend to be very dramatic because of that, because I invite the surreal
00:14:54.320into the world of the story I can go to pretty intense heights um and that's not for everyone
00:15:01.200you know um but it's something that really speaks to me and it it comes from my love of fairy tales
00:15:06.700and it comes from just my my actual real belief that engaging with fantasy I mean it's fiction
00:15:13.760the pretense that we're trying to replicate something real is such is so funny to me
00:15:18.380um why not just like expand the borders of reality in the world of fiction i mean that's what it's
00:15:25.620there for in in my view um and it's a way for us to understand our reality on earth i think more
00:15:32.060profoundly when we do that so that's how i see fiction working um and uh and so that's how i use
00:15:38.240it but you know uh i i hope readers find it and connect with it i always want that i do have
00:15:45.640I always think of a reader but I don't have a particular person in mind I just think like this
00:15:52.340is going to be read by somebody so just make sure that you're aware of that as you're working but
00:15:57.500beyond that I don't really have any other considerations yeah I think as a creative
00:16:02.360writer you it must be really hard to almost think of like the marketing of a book when you're trying
00:16:08.200to create this world like I don't think many creative writers hopefully they don't you know
00:16:14.720sit down and think I will write an Oprah friendly book club book some might but yeah some no some do
00:16:21.320some really do uh you know um some actually set out to write bestsellers there there are people
00:16:26.680who who who do that I can't do that like I just don't think my brain can work that way uh for me
00:16:33.380I have to like it's the story first and if I have a feeling for it and if I believe in it
00:16:39.680and then how it is received is not really up to me yeah it's almost like a bonus if
00:16:46.520people love it yes with it yeah that's super inspiring yes yes exactly another major theme
00:16:52.700of bunny and we love you bunny is the trope of um clicks and female friendships and kind of the
00:16:58.340darker side of female friendships you told nylon magazine back in 2019 that quote there's a high
00:17:04.760school quality to almost any kind of group that humans find themselves in how did you expand on
00:17:10.680the idea in we love you bunny yeah i mean it's so funny you know because it's grad school so you
00:17:16.000would think everybody was like super mature and you know really smart and that's actually true
00:17:21.520people are really smart um but they're very competitive and being very competitive and knowing
00:17:27.940the reality that you know only so many books get published a year only so many writers actually
00:17:35.640make it um that's a reality um that every young writer has to contend with um and so it can make
00:17:43.920you pretty petty bunny when you're in like one of these classroom settings and you're trying to make
00:17:49.160it work you know um and that's what i've experienced as a student and certainly i've seen it as a
00:17:54.760teacher. You know, I feel like I even have more insight now that I teach in a writing program.
00:18:02.240And I feel so much compassion for my students because I was there and I know I know what that
00:18:06.400feels like. It's hard. It's hard to make your way in the world as a young artist. And those those
00:18:12.700environments don't always bring out the best in us. And they can make us act like children,
00:18:17.560you know, but certainly we act like we're in high school. That's for sure. You know,
00:18:21.640um very easily threatened lots of over-the-top feelings
00:18:25.400everything just has way higher stakes than maybe it should but maybe not you know it's like it
00:18:33.580counts it's it's writers see their work as their heart um so yeah but I definitely had fun with
00:18:41.860those dynamics and bunny and and very very intentionally yeah I feel like the bunnies
00:18:47.160has come to life, of course, through their costuming, but of course, through their mannerisms
00:18:51.820and language as well. And to me, at least the way the bunnies communicate is almost its own
00:18:57.100language with particular slang and cadence and style being very specific to when women are0.52
00:19:03.260together with other women. Can you tell us more about any intentionality there?
00:19:09.060Yeah, I mean, you know, some of this comes from my own anxiety. And I've shared this before,
00:19:14.860But I do actually have a real anxiety about groups. And I've always had anxiety about like, groups of women together, but any group stresses me out. I just feel like there's, I don't know, okay, it's, I think it's just because I am, I'm more of a one on one person. And I feel like when I'm connecting with just one person, we can be authentic and honest with each other. And there's just room for me to say what I think off the cuff.0.98
00:19:42.480and um but in a group like you never know when's the right moment to talk you never know what to
00:19:47.380like it's just it just to me it's just like landmines so many social landmines um and so
00:19:53.940i had a lot of fun um with that especially in bunny because we're looking at it from sam's
00:19:59.980perspective which i can identify with um but then in in we love you bunny what i really enjoyed was
00:20:06.420breaking that open now that we're in the bunny's heads and showing that everyone feels like that
00:20:12.160even inside a group everyone kind of feels just a little bit like an outsider like they're not
00:20:17.460quite in the group as much as you think from the outside right because we're all just individuals
00:20:23.080ultimately right um and so that was really important to me in bunny was to sort of play with
00:20:30.000and and maybe undermine sam's idea of this sweetness and sort of show the other side
00:20:37.200they do care for each other I think but yeah they also hate each other and are jealous and
00:20:42.960all of these other shadow emotions are there too yeah I think we love you bunny totally humanizes
00:20:48.860the bunnies for sure yes yes early on in the book one of the characters says that another
00:20:55.940is quote slightly in love and also slightly afraid of me the contradictions of revulsion
00:21:02.880and desire and then fear and lust are constantly played out in the bunny universe how do you think
00:21:09.080this plays out in our everyday lives and why is it that tension that you wanted to explore
00:21:14.020yeah i mean i think it's just true of anything anything that you love there's going to be a
00:21:18.760shadow side to that love you know um because any emotion that you feel intensely for anything is
00:21:24.960kind of a mirror for your own stuff like anything that you desire also holds something that you
00:21:30.120probably fear um and so which is why there are so many great beauty in the beast stories which is
00:21:35.900why i think we're obsessed with that fairy tale because the beast can embody both our desire and
00:21:40.660our fear of our desire because we're often afraid of the things we desire you know um and so i i
00:21:47.300really wanted to play with that in bunny um to kind of just get at the shadow side of that love
00:21:53.320of that closeness um and show that that shadow is actually part of it it's what makes it like
00:21:58.580fully real and like meaningful and have depth um so yeah that's important I think yeah yeah
00:22:07.180I got goosebumps when you described um looking into um the character's eyes and seeing the
00:22:13.860shadow self inside their eyes you know alone and hairy and afraid I was like wow that's so
00:22:19.360like yeah something that I've not really read in a text like that before and um yeah it gets
00:22:24.520thinking for sure yeah that's the duchess the duchess definitely has that view she thinks she
00:22:29.300can see everybody's shadow self she she believes that and maybe she can you know i wouldn't put
00:22:34.260anything past her either yeah yeah another um aspect of your writing that i really love is the
00:22:43.360the thin line between reality and imagination um and that's through bunny as well as we love you
00:22:49.000bunny one character even writes mother says to imagine is to make your insights rich to make
00:22:54.160what you might never be be why have you purposely distorted what's real and not real in your novels
00:23:00.120i guess because i want to kind of break open what what we think of as real um and uh you know bunny
00:23:08.520and we love you bunny both challenge the idea that um just because you imagined something it
00:23:16.500doesn't mean that it doesn't have meaning it can be real to you um you know love is always love
00:23:22.140um that is my favorite thing about the velveteen rabbit um love makes you know the rabbit real
00:23:30.060um and so i i just think that that's that's important to honor in the world of fiction
00:23:38.060um and i've always just loved working on that thin line and to me they're yeah i'm aware of
00:23:45.620the line and I'm playing with the line but there is no line you know like really you know um I I
00:23:54.620guess yeah that's that's really what it is is I kind of want to um just sort of challenge what we
00:24:01.940perceive to be real um and and remind readers that your experience is a very real thing even
00:24:09.500if it's just happening to you it's real to you you know yeah yes 100 we only have a couple of
00:24:17.740minutes left we wish we could keep talking to you for longer but I guess a pertinent question that
00:24:23.560I'm sure a lot of our book loving listeners will want to ask is do you have any advice for aspiring
00:24:30.060fiction writers yes uh you know I mean it's it's I hate to say that it's standard because it because
00:24:37.220it's so important, but it's probably something that young writers have heard before. I wish
00:24:43.540I could offer something that maybe they haven't heard before. I guess the one thing I will
00:24:47.620share that is pretty specific to my experience and maybe some other writers will relate is
00:24:54.960I was really afraid to even try for a long time because I was afraid of failing. I first
00:25:02.040wrote something really meaningful to me when I was 22 years old. It was a poem. And I wrote it,
00:25:08.520and it was so meaningful to me. And I did think it had some power. And I remember showing it to
00:25:13.540my poetry professor, and he agreed that it really did. But I was so afraid that the next thing I
00:25:19.220would write would have no power and I would fail, that I dropped out of the class and I stopped
00:25:24.520writing. And I didn't really go back to writing seriously until years later. I just couldn't
00:25:31.700help it eventually i went back but i do wish that i had not been so afraid to fail because now i
00:25:38.980understand that failure is really just a part of the experience of of being an artist it's it's
00:25:46.240something you're going to encounter again and again and it doesn't mean that you're not going
00:25:50.140to end up making something beautiful and powerful that resonates with you it's actually how you get
00:25:54.760there um is to kind of be vulnerable and make mistakes and and have things just not live up
00:26:01.340to what's in your head and have to put it down and cross it out and try again and walk away and
00:26:07.280all of these things. And I just, um, so yeah, I guess that's, that's what I would say to young
00:26:11.960writers. Don't be afraid to fail. Just, just accept it. It's okay. It means you're on the
00:26:17.780right path. I feel like Maggie and I really needed to hear that. We needed this. Oh my gosh.
00:26:25.220seriously like yeah having being a creative person and having ideas and having such there's
00:26:32.340that famous quote that's like being an artist means you have really good taste and so you have
00:26:37.140like a high expectation of what you want to create but like you just have to make the bad thing first
00:26:43.260because there's no other way through you do there's no other way through and that is how I
00:26:48.080write every draft I just tell myself this draft will be bad but that's okay I'm gonna get it down
00:26:53.900i have like something i have a voice i have a feeling i want to follow it and i'm just going
00:26:58.900to write this and see god i'm going to yeah seriously every day when i need it so thank
00:27:04.640you for that oh good we are up to our final question we promise it's a quick one every week
00:27:10.380on our podcast we give our listeners one recommendation on something that we've enjoyed
00:27:14.420reading listening to or watching recently can you share a recommendation that you've been enjoying
00:27:19.520Oh, okay. This is an oldie, but a goodie. I guess I would recommend Hounds of Love,
00:27:25.820the Kate Bush album from 1985. It is a great, great album. It is such an inspiration to me.
00:27:35.800She is, talk about being bold. She is bold and very singular in her vision.
00:27:42.620But there's a true beating heart there always. And I just love that about Kate Bush. And that
00:27:48.440album is just unreal so for anybody who is a fan of like Caroline Polachek or Chapel Roan
00:27:55.880check out Hounds of Love I think you'll really I have goosebumps right now that album is from 1985
00:28:02.640I was reading We Love You Bunny on Saturday night and I like get through it and I was listening to
00:28:08.520that album oh oh my goodness yeah noise cleansing headphones on I was like this is like the perfect
00:28:12.780album to listen to while reading this book and yeah oh my gosh that's so freaky she was my spirit
00:28:17.940animals for the whole thing yeah I listened to her albums as I was working on the book constantly
00:28:23.340wow what I was doing well it shows because yeah I was inspired to listen to it yeah oh my gosh
00:28:29.320that's awesome well thank you so much for your time Mona it's been such a joy and a privilege
00:28:35.220to speak with you today if people want to know more about your work or follow you do they have
00:28:40.700anywhere they can do that or hear more from you or is it mostly just from your novels yes from my
00:28:46.280novels for sure but if you wanted to follow me on instagram i'm miss breed with three s's
00:28:51.400and i also have a website monawadauthor.com and you can see upcoming events and just news
00:28:58.040things like that amazing we hope that you find your way to australia sometime soon
00:29:03.140that would be such a dream i hope so too yes
00:29:06.340thank you so much again for chatting with us thank you so much bye