Culture Club - Dot Cakes, Pattie Gonia & The Demonisation Of Joy

00:00:00.000 Cynthia Erivo speaks out about Wicked, the Patagonia lawsuit explained, and why are Dot 0.97

00:00:10.980 Cakes creating discourse? I'm Maggie Zhao. And I'm Jasmine Wallace. And you're listening

00:00:15.740 to Culture Club, where two writers and editors chat about pop culture, current affairs, the

00:00:20.480 internet and our lives. Today, we're on the lands of the Wurundjeri Woiwurrung people of

00:00:25.220 the Kulin Nations. We would like to pay our respects to Elders past and present and extend

00:00:29.980 this to any Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander listeners today. It feels like a fever dream that

00:00:38.880 we actually watched Shannon Knoll perform up in a plane just this week. It actually was a fever

00:00:45.600 dream. I was getting messages from people being like, what? This is so surreal. Like it looks

00:00:49.340 like a fever dream. I was like, imagine being in the dream. It was so, so weird. So explain what

00:00:54.960 happened. Yeah. For context, we went on a Jetsa party flight this week and we actually spent the

00:00:59.620 week in Townsville so we literally just got back last night and this was for their 22nd birthday

00:01:04.720 and what they did was they got Shannon Noel to perform because the year that Jetstar like was

00:01:10.360 launched was 2004 which is when he was on Australian Idol famously came second that is some of

00:01:15.940 Australia's like biggest pop culture lore so you're not from here now you know but we also

00:01:21.520 played like bingo pass a parcel and the cup flipping games on the flight so it was so funny

00:01:29.080 and random and fun like it felt like a reality tv show i liked embracing the silliness of it all

00:01:34.940 i think sometimes you can feel a bit like too serious in the world and it's nice to like

00:01:41.120 have a laugh and shannon was a really great performer as well like genuinely really like

00:01:46.360 his music the way that i was telling my mom last night and then she just drops like all this

00:01:51.040 information she has retained about him she's like yes and when he was on australian idol his wife

00:01:56.360 had just given birth like he came second but they got some prize money and he said he's gonna like

00:02:00.860 build a house don't fact check me this is what my mom said but um i i i love it because his legacy

00:02:07.060 is so strong here yeah he's an australian legend in the pop culture law as you said so that was

00:02:12.360 really fun and then we spent three four days in townsville queensland yes first time there

00:02:18.240 this is embarrassing to admit but my geography can be so bad and i was picturing because when

00:02:23.380 I think of Townsville I think country music right which is correct why did I picture like a Route

00:02:27.580 86 kind of vibe it was not that at all it was tropical paradise were you expect you didn't

00:02:34.500 expect the beach I don't think so I don't think I was thinking too deeply I knew that it was

00:02:38.880 connected to the Great Barrier Reef so I knew it wouldn't be too far off but I don't know what was

00:02:44.100 happening in this brain well there were like mountain rocky mountain faces etc um but yes

00:02:51.260 It's tropical paradise. It was nice to get some sunshine and tropical vibes as we head into

00:02:57.440 Melbourne winter as well. And we've also leant so heavily into the sleepover vibe. This past month,

00:03:02.260 we have spent two weeks actually sharing a room. Sharing one room. Yeah. Sharing a room, single

00:03:07.840 bed, live. You know how it is. Laurie was literally like, you could be having an affair

00:03:13.240 with Maggie and I wouldn't even know. Yeah. Laurie, watch your back. But we did really lean 0.99

00:03:19.360 into the sleepover vibe we watched some of Off Campus because you hadn't started watching at all

00:03:25.120 whereas I'd watched like an episode and a half but I so graciously re-watched them with you.

00:03:30.220 Off Campus is the show of the moment I don't know why I was so behind I just hadn't got around to

00:03:35.800 it yet but it is the biggest show in the world currently. Well world is big I feel like for a

00:03:41.980 very specific group of John Zed and millennials it is the biggest show I mean you can you can 0.62

00:03:48.280 correct me because actually the stats are showing that it has debuted really successfully. So

00:03:54.220 according to Prime Video, where it is platformed, it is the third most viewed debut season of any

00:04:00.720 series in Prime Video history. It also has reached 36 million viewers in its first 12 days of

00:04:08.080 streaming across the world. So apparently like the only other shows and series that have outperformed

00:04:14.480 it are the lord of the rings the rings of power and fallout literally i don't know about either

00:04:20.620 oh really i haven't seen them but i what's fallout no they're not it's like um based off that video

00:04:25.120 game sure okay see based on video game like dystopian future vibes and it also is tracking

00:04:31.620 above the summer i turned pretty and i think that's a good litmus of just how big it is because

00:04:36.660 they kind of feel like they exist in the same universe definitely i feel like the summer i

00:04:40.500 turned pretty, gained traction as the seasons went on. Whereas this already had heaps of hype

00:04:46.020 because of it's like cousin show, Heated Rivalry. So we were all already sat for ice hockey bromance.

00:04:54.820 Jazz still hasn't seen Heated Rivalry. I feel so homophobic. Yeah, you are. It's actually bad.

00:04:59.420 Yeah. Why are you watching the straight one then? Really slowly and only because we are sharing a

00:05:03.880 room. I definitely would not have started it yet if it hadn't been for that. I will definitely get

00:05:09.320 Interheated Rivalry. I didn't watch any more of Off Campus last night. It was working too late,

00:05:14.060 but I want to get on it this weekend maybe. But we should actually explain what the show is about

00:05:18.620 because some people might not have watched it or heard of it or maybe have only seen little

00:05:22.340 things here and there. So it's an American romantic comedy drama created by Louisa Levy

00:05:28.940 for Amazon Prime, as we said, but it's based on the Off Campus books, which are by a Canadian

00:05:34.340 author Elle Kennedy. And it is your typical romance plot line. It follows two college

00:05:40.980 students, Hannah, who is a music major, who is like working to get scholarship and she works 0.83

00:05:46.700 multiple jobs. And then we have Garrett Graham, who is the star hockey player. He's like a Nepo

00:05:52.980 hockey player. Yeah. And then essentially they have a fake romance relationship and that will

00:06:01.240 probably turn into a real one it's kind of like anyone but you how they're like enemies to lovers

00:06:07.420 it's like every rom-com ever every rom-com but I think definitely with this new wave of American

00:06:13.840 romance book talk vibes there's like the tropes and people actually like look on the back cover

00:06:22.260 and it can sometimes say like enemies to love a story or like yeah one was it one room one bed

00:06:27.980 one bed that was us this month i was hate watching it a little bit and you were kind of getting mad

00:06:34.780 at me because i was like commenting all the time i just struggle things that are super super american

00:06:39.120 but it's like a guilty pleasure watch yeah you definitely have to lean into like the cringeness

00:06:45.720 of it and how like saturated i know it's not netflix but like it gives netflix appeal it's

00:06:51.580 obviously not something that's super highbrow but it is really fun we are again as we mentioned

00:06:56.340 not finished the series yet but it does grapple with some uh heavier topics as well and people

00:07:02.000 have been like it's not as a predictable as a storyline as you might think so i'm enjoying it

00:07:09.140 what i find really interesting is that this is in the zeitgeist at the same time as euphoria

00:07:14.400 season three and these are two vastly completely different shows yet kind of trying to tap into

00:07:20.920 the same audience and to see the reaction from people via so differently I think is really telling

00:07:27.780 of like what people want right now. Do you think that they're trying to tap into the same audience?

00:07:31.440 Yeah Gen Z Millennials. That's such a broad audience though. Yeah I think that thing about

00:07:36.980 Euphoria earlier seasons it would have been like so on par surely. Yeah I guess I just think Euphoria

00:07:44.220 was definitely darker of course of a vibe and like i think off campus is much more like all

00:07:52.700 american like true the tropes of like i'm the theater kid i swear i asked in the first episode

00:07:59.000 i was like is this a musical and she's like singing down in the basement of the hockey

00:08:03.120 what do you even call it stadium so it stars the newcomer ella bright as hannah wells the musical

00:08:09.760 theatre girl and Belmont Cameli as Garrett. I really, really like Ella. I think that's

00:08:16.720 one of the reasons why I will keep watching because I'm intrigued by the actress. Ella

00:08:21.320 Bright is only 19 and she's playing a 20 year old. So very age appropriate casting there.

00:08:27.380 Belmont who plays Garrett is actually 28 years old, would have been probably 27 at filming.

00:08:34.260 And a few people have been talking about the age gap. They were actually asked about it in an

00:08:37.980 interview that i saw and ella said that she felt very safe very comfortable at the end of the day

00:08:43.620 they're just doing a job and i think that happens often also don't you find that young men like say

00:08:50.720 19 year old men can look a lot younger than 19 year old women so yeah you cast a man who's mid

00:08:57.540 to late 20s to like even balance it out in the end i see that but i do think uh belmont who plays

00:09:04.780 uh garrett i always want to say like graham when there's two first names i just it confuses me uh

00:09:11.400 but he does not look 20 who is he when we were watching i literally googled me like how old is

00:09:17.960 he and i was like i bet he's 27 and he was and yeah i totally get concern around age gap

00:09:24.840 relationships but i think when we're talking about two actors like in a safe controlled

00:09:28.780 environment like it's not an issue at all i have one more question for you on this topic

00:09:34.000 why do you think that we are loving these shows that are so cookie cutter almost tropey of like

00:09:42.320 we're gonna start a fake relationship but you know that they're gonna get together in the end

00:09:45.900 and like or not in the end don't know if they're together forever vibes but like you know it's

00:09:51.200 predictable do you think that we are gravitating towards those shows because they are like safe

00:09:56.720 in a world that's so like chaotic at the moment definitely I think we always have this appetite

00:10:02.480 for very sugary, very easy to digest content. It's why I'm constantly almost listening to an

00:10:09.320 audio book that falls into this genre that I just put on and it's like comforting, right?

00:10:13.840 So comfort watches. But at the same time, I do think the movies that we have seen come out in

00:10:19.200 the last couple of years have been pushing the boundaries a bit more and are challenging us.

00:10:23.800 So I do think as people, we have appetite for both, but this is just easy.

00:10:28.580 Yeah, I agree. Sometimes you do need to just escape into that magical US world that is like, yeah, college-esque, no real stakes. I mean, there is a theme of sexual assault in this show, which is, you know, adds a bit of weight and depth to it, as you said. But you know that you're going to have a laugh, see some spicy scenes, then you can just turn it off and not think about it again.

00:10:55.340 you turned off in the middle of an episode because you were tired yeah I can't do that

00:10:59.240 to my body I'm like I'm ready to sleep but what was funny I just that's why I was giggling was

00:11:03.600 every time there was like a kissing scene Jazz would be like oh spicy I think they're like five

00:11:08.920 times I think because I wonder with these like high school college shows when they say like 0.87

00:11:14.800 it's steamy I'm like but how steamy is this yeah it was pretty steamy boobs are out

00:11:19.900 yeah i wonder if it's like college steamy but so it's like when they're kissing i'm like oh wait

00:11:26.100 it's going somewhere okay here we go so we are only a few episodes in so we will see we'll report

00:11:32.020 back on our final thoughts when we eventually finish i fear you'll finish before me yeah

00:11:36.400 and no surprise season two has also been confirmed

00:11:39.820 Olivia Rodrigo has done her first in-depth interview for her upcoming album You Seem

00:11:54.920 Pretty Sad for a Girl So in Love that is out June 12. She was interviewed by John Caramanica

00:12:01.260 and Joe Coscarelli and it was a 90-minute sit-down interview and I loved it. I love

00:12:09.400 getting to see Olivia's mind in like see her the way she thinks the way she speaks um the way she 0.59

00:12:16.420 views the world she is so smart and she's only 24. What are her fans called? Livies. This is a big

00:12:23.860 interview for the Livies and we will link it in our show notes if you want to watch the whole thing

00:12:28.940 what does she talk about in the interview? Yeah so because we don't have the album yet

00:12:35.140 this was a really good insight to what we can expect and one of the things I found interesting

00:12:40.880 is that this is much more inspired by 80s 90s music and it is going to be a lot more restrained

00:12:47.560 than her typical pop punk leaning so kind of that more edgy kind of angsty girl that we've

00:12:54.080 seen with her previous albums it won't be as strong how does that make you feel I'm looking

00:12:58.240 forward to a bit more of a grown-up version of Olivia I'm a huge fan I think I said this last

00:13:03.740 week but I sometimes find found her a bit young like I didn't buy tickets to her concert because

00:13:09.300 I was like I just find her fandom and stuff a bit young which is obviously so fine um so I'm

00:13:15.480 looking forward to this album yeah she speaks about how she thinks that this album is her at

00:13:21.480 her most mature in terms of looking at a relationship in it's all its complexities

00:13:26.640 right it's not like oh you've wronged me and now I'm writing a song about it there are way more

00:13:30.400 layers and we've seen that with The Cure. So yeah apparently it's a less angry album but there is

00:13:36.760 one song about jealousy where she even calls herself like a petty bitch. She's not afraid to 0.98

00:13:41.940 almost play the villain and kind of put on that persona as well but I did like the other insights

00:13:49.680 we got about her relationship and breakup with Louis Partridge. She has this line in that interview

00:13:55.040 and she wasn't directly talking about him but I think she was and she was like you can break up

00:13:59.340 with someone and still love them. And I do feel like that's probably what happened there. There's

00:14:04.240 still a lot of speculation about their relationship. Also in the interview, she talks about how she

00:14:09.780 was inspired by the Sex and the City couple, Miranda and Steve, which is so rogue because

00:14:14.640 they're not like the most couple goals and the most famous couple from that series.

00:14:19.160 Yeah. Yeah. A few songs, apparently a few songs have been written inspired by them and they're

00:14:24.500 on and off relationship she also talks about which sex in the city character she is have you seen

00:14:31.120 no so this who do you think she would be i think she'd say she's a carry yeah she actually says

00:14:37.140 charlotte with a carry rising which i like i feel like saying that you're a charlotte is kind of

00:14:42.460 like saying a hufflepuff i feel like i'm the same oh what no maybe that's too conservative let's

00:14:51.660 guess each other's Miranda for you thank you well I was going to say you're gonna disagree I think

00:14:59.020 but like a for you Carrie with a Samantha Rising whoa Samantha Rising a little bit like in but like

00:15:07.300 not I'll take that explicitly I'd say I say Charlotte because I'm a lover girl yes I'm married

00:15:14.260 and stuff. That's the only trait. But I do think I have Carrie traits and I'm not afraid to say

00:15:23.060 that. I'm also not afraid to say that I'm a Marnie from Girls. I'm so Marnie and like I'm

00:15:28.040 comfortable with that. Yeah I think for me I'm definitely Miranda but with Carrie in her too.

00:15:34.660 I think if you are a public like sorry if you work in media and you're writing or you're doing

00:15:38.560 something public like you have curry in you what about girls for you um like your shows really

00:15:46.060 i've only watched season one of girls okay um a bit of character like okay because the in season

00:15:53.800 one i would say not no no they all scare me and i think that's a point of girls

00:15:58.380 i'll come back to you when i've watched more in this interview olivia also references the baby

00:16:05.900 doll dress controversy that we spoke about a few weeks ago we're going to play the clip here is i

00:16:11.020 feel like i actually wear i have worn outfits that are like maybe revealing on stage like i've been

00:16:16.140 on stage in like a sparkly bra and like little shorts and like which is my right that's fun i

00:16:21.100 felt cool and comfortable in that and like that wasn't inappropriate but me like fully covered up

00:16:26.060 in a dress that people deemed to be like childlike was inappropriate and i just think it it just like

00:16:31.120 shows how we just like really normalize pedophilia in in our culture and also it's just as this this

00:16:38.320 like rhetoric that we're fed as girls since we're so little which is like don't wear that because

00:16:43.380 then a man is going to sexualize your body and it's your fault like it's so weird and um i i

00:16:49.700 didn't think that i looked sexy in that at all i was like this is so cool i feel like like kathleen

00:16:53.460 hannah or like courtney love all these people who are my heroes and i felt cool and comfortable in

00:16:57.820 And, like, I just think if we start dressing in a way that's like, oh, I don't want some freak to think that I, like, am sexy like a baby or, like, some crazy thing like that.

00:17:08.760 Like, I just think it's, like, losing the plot a little bit.

00:17:11.540 I'm glad that they asked this and spoke about it.

00:17:14.080 I think it's important for her to share her own opinion on this because it was such a crazy discourse.

00:17:19.720 These interviewers are seasoned.

00:17:21.880 They are incredible.

00:17:22.700 One's a critic.

00:17:23.320 One's a, like, journalist.

00:17:24.820 and the questions they asked were so good so we won't get into them too deeply but they actually

00:17:31.060 asked like why she didn't go to the Met Gala because there was a rumor that she had liked

00:17:34.960 a post about like not going because she was protesting it and she was like you know it's

00:17:40.380 just like not for her she it wasn't fun or exciting they even talked about Taylor Swift's

00:17:45.220 feud with her she didn't really give much on that but you know these interviewers weren't

00:17:49.700 scared to ask these like tougher questions yeah it's the new york times pop cast which i think

00:17:55.220 is like the best music journalism that we have in the world honestly like i know it's us but like

00:18:01.260 i think that they are both so talented at what they do and it is refreshing to see like two

00:18:06.740 grown men take olivia rodriguez so seriously and like respect her craft respect her music

00:18:12.660 knowledge like they're not like you know they're throwing out all these references and they're not

00:18:15.900 like dumbing it down for her or whatever like she's a young woman and I just love how much

00:18:20.580 I respect her and I hate that I have to say that but it's yeah it's true it is also refreshing to

00:18:25.720 have some like proper journalism like in the music world because we have seen a lot of music

00:18:31.120 journalism be essentially shrunk down into press junkets and like viral clips and just really quick

00:18:37.920 like would you rather questions and stuff and I understand that has its own purpose of like

00:18:43.440 connecting you with someone with an interviewee, but it's refreshing to like get a juicy bit of

00:18:49.780 music journalism. Of course. And at the time of recording, this episode was only launched

00:18:54.080 five hours ago and it already has over 25,000 views on YouTube. And that will obviously

00:18:59.280 continue to climb. And I think it shows that people are keen for long form journalism like this.

00:19:13.440 Cynthia Erivo is on a press run at the moment and she's on stage for Dracula which is a one

00:19:20.140 woman show at the Noel Coward Theatre in London. We've seen two bits of press really pick up

00:19:26.360 traction this week both of which are for Variety. Let's first talk about that YouTube video she was

00:19:32.960 in it's called Does Cynthia Erivo Know Her Lines and it's like a game I guess where she guesses

00:19:39.360 lines and lyrics from her most famous projects and songs and then talks about them right so she

00:19:44.240 gets like a phrase lyric on a piece of paper and she has to recall where it's from what the internet

00:19:50.180 is talking about is her reaction when a wicked line gets called let's play it here do you mind

00:19:57.660 if we do another question that isn't about wicked because i feel like i've spent the last two years

00:20:02.400 talking about it and i think that we have an opportunity to start talking about something else

00:20:06.620 is that okay and i love wicked but i've just talked about it ad nauseum okay so interesting

00:20:14.800 you never really see celebrities be that transparent and say like that press tour is over

00:20:23.640 i'm on to something else especially something that really put you on the global map like 0.67

00:20:29.760 obviously cynthia had an incredible career pre-wicked she will have an incredible career

00:20:34.100 post Wicked but Wicked was like the biggest movie the both the movies in the world for like 0.94

00:20:39.800 four years or whatever it was and you don't often see especially women feeling like they're allowed

00:20:46.220 to say that so I am like props to her yeah I agree but I do think two things can be true at once yeah

00:20:53.740 so number one I think her total right to say that and she delivered it so politely and so like firmly

00:20:59.600 love it but number two this series is literally going through your most famous lines you don't

00:21:06.760 think they're going to bring up Wicked for this series where we talk about over like 10 different

00:21:10.420 projects that you've worked on I think it's okay to have a snippet where you talk about Wicked

00:21:15.640 I think about other actors who are part of pivotal series like Daniel Radcliffe and Harry Potter or

00:21:21.780 bloody Twilight you know people Twilight people where they're still talk you know they're still

00:21:27.480 asked questions about it you know debt years decades on I think it's okay to also just answer

00:21:36.060 the question she does answer it in the end and she does well clearly I think the press around

00:21:42.880 Wicked definitely impacted her like that's what it's saying right like clearly that's like a bruise

00:21:48.040 at the moment for Cynthia completely and she did a long-form interview write-up also with Variety

00:21:55.620 The piece is called How Cynthia Erivo Survived Wicked and Thrived.

00:22:00.580 Quote, people thought I was being myself even though I was freeing.

00:22:04.560 That was written by KJ Yossman.

00:22:06.600 In the interview, Cynthia speaks of that Singapore premiere where an Australian man, remember,

00:22:12.060 bolted over the barrier and grabbed Ariana.

00:22:15.220 Cynthia said, nobody moved.

00:22:17.440 So I moved because my brain went, get him away, get him out of here.

00:22:21.200 My immediate reaction was, get him away from us.

00:22:23.600 and what people couldn't see is that he wouldn't let go of Ariana. He wouldn't let go so I just

00:22:29.320 kept pushing at him to get off. The writer also talks to the public response after this incident

00:22:35.160 and you know a lot of people were praising Cynthia for being so protective and being so quick

00:22:40.140 but there were also a lot of jokes and memes that portrayed Cynthia as like Ariana's bodyguard

00:22:47.460 and here Cynthia talks about it so she says I think that we haven't really come to terms with

00:22:53.880 the insidious nature of how we view black women and I'm sure people will read this and think oh

00:22:58.800 for goodness sakes it's not about that but it is because that's what was being made fun of it was

00:23:04.500 my physique it was my shape it was the fact that I was bald it was about what I looked like and

00:23:09.400 because of that there was this assumption that I was bigger than my co-star and so I had to be

00:23:14.780 controlling or protecting, and that was my role. I would hazard a guess that it would not have been

00:23:20.460 the same had it been the other way around. The article writes that by the time awards season

00:23:26.580 rolled around again, Cynthia was, quote, done. The author also asks if the reverberations from

00:23:33.240 the Singapore incident with Ariana put her off campaigning for an Oscar. And Cynthia says,

00:23:39.400 I think maybe in a way it did actually. I just felt like my humanity had been bastardized.

00:23:44.260 I felt like something I did instinctively had been made to be something that it simply was not

00:23:48.960 because of the way people see women who look like me and because of the assumptions that are made

00:23:54.140 and I just didn't want to be a part of that really and truly I didn't want to put myself

00:23:58.620 through it I didn't feel like I deserved it so proud of her for being able to speak out about

00:24:04.820 this incident and it's something that required her to be quite vulnerable like saying this

00:24:10.180 especially because it has been like you know quite a few months after the fact and she is

00:24:14.700 I guess bringing it up again or of course like the interviewer prompted it but for her to I think

00:24:21.160 bring her identity into the spotlight like and for her to know that that's going to cause backlash

00:24:27.320 like she even says it while she's in answering the question she's like oh I know people are

00:24:30.780 going to read this and think it's not about that but it is and the way that she can still stand so

00:24:35.140 firmly on that is really, I would say, I'm very impressed by that. And it saddens me that she had

00:24:43.320 to go through that while she was just trying to protect her friends. Now it's time for Culture

00:24:56.700 Shock. And in this week's segment, we want to talk about why drag queen Patty Gonia is being sued

00:25:04.320 by the outdoor clothing brand Patagonia for trademark infringement. This is going to get

00:25:10.100 confusing in this episode, but I think I'm just going to, let's really say Patagonia.

00:25:17.220 It's not a Patagonia. So who is Patagonia? Wynne Wiley is a performer who performs as Patagonia.

00:25:25.700 So sometimes we'll refer to them as Wynne. So Patagonia is an American drag queen and importantly,

00:25:33.120 she is an environmental and lgbtqi activist and community organizer so she's actually raised 3.7

00:25:41.820 million usd for non-profits so far it was really cool last year she raised 1 million usd while

00:25:49.960 hiking 100 miles in full drag incredible millions of dollars raised that's such a huge achievement

00:25:56.740 so what is this lawsuit actually about it was actually filed back in january and i remember

00:26:01.840 but when it came out, I was like, oh, should we talk about it? But Patagonia didn't actually

00:26:06.280 say anything about it at that time. Now that's changed. She's no longer silent about it.

00:26:12.800 The outdoor clothing brand Patagonia is suing Wynn for a quote, nominal $1 in damages plus

00:26:20.400 legal fees. And they took action after Wynn filed a trademark application in September to use the

00:26:28.440 brand Patagonia to sell clothing and promote environmental activism, which the brand Patagonia

00:26:36.400 claimed it would harm their brand irreparably. In the statement back in January, the brand said,

00:26:44.500 while we wish we didn't have to do this and actively engage with Patagonia for several years

00:26:48.740 to avoid this, it has become necessary to protect the brand we have spent the last 50 years building.

00:26:54.040 We want Patti to have a long and successful career and make progress on issues that matter,

00:26:59.840 but in a way that respects Patagonia's intellectual property and ability to use

00:27:04.520 our brand to sell products and advocate for the environment.

00:27:07.700 It is very ironic, isn't it? Because Patagonia, the actual name, obviously is from the geographical

00:27:15.040 region, which spans Argentina and Chile.

00:27:18.520 Like the fact that you've trademarked.

00:27:21.140 Trademarked like a geographical region.

00:27:23.240 that's not yours it's not yours and then going after somebody else who is using a name that is

00:27:29.140 similar and also using it for good like this person is not like an oil baron or like a fuel

00:27:37.760 fossil politician they are actively trying to help the climate so surely it's just good like

00:27:45.080 this almost feels like the Barbra Streisand effect or the Streisand effect that we referenced a few

00:27:49.300 podcast episodes ago where like the fact that they're suing this drag queen is giving them

00:27:54.820 more attention and it's negative attention rather than just being like oh well i know that

00:27:59.000 corporations can't be like oh well there's so much that goes into it but it's now getting

00:28:04.400 negative press yeah it is getting negative press and patty gonia has 1.7 million instagram followers

00:28:11.380 like they've built like such a big following but i hadn't heard of them until this court case

00:28:15.400 So in a way, hopefully they're getting more good press from this.

00:28:21.240 One of the things that Wynne said in an open letter and a video on Instagram this past

00:28:26.280 week is, quote, this is a betrayal of Patagonia's core mission, because if they're, quote, in

00:28:32.520 business to save the home planet, why are they suing a climate activist?

00:28:37.060 This is a corporation trying to erase an activist.

00:28:40.220 This is how corporations bully individuals who cannot match their resources.

00:28:45.060 But Patagonia isn't as sustainable and ethical as people may think.

00:28:50.220 Of course, it is a multi-billion dollar corporation.

00:28:54.160 Yeah, and I think that's a sticking point to this.

00:28:56.260 Sure, Patagonia is B Corp and they've done some great initiatives and some great innovations

00:29:01.420 in the outdoor space.

00:29:03.700 But at the end of the day, this is like a highly profitable business.

00:29:08.500 We'll now play a clip from fair fashion activist Venetia Lamana.

00:29:11.840 Instead of putting their time and energy into sorting out their supply chains, Patagonia

00:29:16.220 is suing Patagonia for copyright infringement, claiming Patty is doing irreparable harm to

00:29:20.960 their brand due to organising trail and hiking events.

00:29:24.900 As Willow says, Patagonia is a place of wild beauty that predates all trademarks.

00:29:29.940 To suggest otherwise is kind of giving coloniser, but what else should we expect from a billion

00:29:33.900 dollar business whose largest client for 40 years was the US military that ignored a community

00:29:38.640 on the front lines of the textile waste crisis in Ghana and has failed to pay all their garment

00:29:42.840 makers fair living wages. To anyone who feels disheartened by Patagonia, Everlane or Allbirds,

00:29:47.780 we have to stop putting so much faith in multinational corporations.

00:29:51.340 So get out into your communities and start organising.

00:29:53.960 Maggie I have a question for you today have you seen the dot cakes that are all over for you pages

00:30:09.780 recently I have I actually started seeing the backlash before before the happiness I never

00:30:17.940 lived through the happiness of the dot cake from where I'm standing it looks like some sort of

00:30:22.960 sprinkle like sprinkle like a flat sprinkle topped cake muffin thing you are correct I saw these

00:30:32.820 videos of influencers eating cake maybe last week week before started in the US I saw the

00:30:40.500 influencer Greta Louise Tomes video first and then a few others popped up and it was like ASMR so

00:30:48.740 basically these influencers go to the camera they scrape a spoon across a frosted kind of vanilla

00:30:55.660 sponge cake and it's just hundreds and thousands as we call them in australia and then they take

00:31:02.560 a spoonful and they eat cake on camera and they're like it's so good in australia we don't have any

00:31:07.680 of the actual brand which is the bakery the dot cakes which is based in long island new york good

00:31:13.700 on them that's great publicity from them i didn't realize it was an actual like bakery i thought it

00:31:18.320 was just like a style of cake. Yeah, so did I. So the co-founder and the baker began baking the

00:31:24.060 cakes when she was in high school in 2017. And then when she was in college, her name is Alex

00:31:29.140 Posner. She got so popular during college that she made a business in 2019. The most famous of

00:31:37.300 the Dot Cakes products is the Dot Cups, which is the description that I just told you of the soft

00:31:44.600 sponge cake and it's packaged in a single use cup which looks like a yochi cup if you are Australian

00:31:50.260 like the frozen yogurt kind of round bowl thing it's like a tiny cake or a big cupcake it's not

00:31:57.420 even yeah it's like a type of cupcake I guess because it's literally in a cup like this big

00:32:02.240 and it yeah it's so so I was like okay cool the Americans are eating you know some new trend I

00:32:09.960 literally didn't think twice then australian you know people influences content creators

00:32:15.100 start baking their own at home and eating cake on camera and it's gotten people really riled up

00:32:22.040 people like why are we doing this i don't ever want to see a dot cake on my for you page again

00:32:27.660 and we were in townsville and i was like what is going on like it's so funny it feels like 2013

00:32:33.900 again of like a dessert going viral but in 2013 there was no discourse it was just like

00:32:38.160 everyone loves frozen yogurt yeah I was seeing a lot of discourse from the environmental side

00:32:45.780 of things people talking about like how it's wasteful to be buying these disposable cups

00:32:51.560 when you could be just making it in a muffin tray or in a cake tin like yeah that's true but

00:32:58.180 like also people are getting yochi and coffee cup I'm not saying obviously every cup counts

00:33:05.140 and it's good to reduce your waste but it's funny when there's like something joyful on the internet

00:33:12.600 people are quick to be like you shouldn't be doing that why why are we so angry about these

00:33:18.020 dot cakes yeah I do feel like there is a double standard there because like so much plastic and

00:33:23.080 single-use plastic has been so normalized which obviously isn't a good thing but it's like why

00:33:27.520 is your like maybe your daily coffee cup okay or like there's definitely been less criticism

00:33:34.520 of that um in recent years but this like dot cake people are suddenly like about it again yeah i

00:33:41.020 guess it's like adding another but surely people aren't getting this every single day like the

00:33:45.240 same way they're getting a coffee yeah this has actually made headlines in australia nine honey

00:33:50.200 like reposted riley hampson and lexi lobb who are two australian influences like a new zealand

00:33:56.440 influences baking the cake like is this slow news day slow news day we were like will we

00:34:04.360 even talk about this but I think yeah it's funny to have a moment in time where people are like

00:34:10.340 getting up in arms about a cake like what are we doing I think also okay I'm gonna hazard a guess

00:34:17.000 that people are also like wow the way that people are so easily influenced that essentially this is

00:34:22.360 a sponge cake with sprinkles and icing and that it's made so many people be like oh I need to try

00:34:27.840 this oh I need to bake this when essentially it's like nothing too new I feel like it's just

00:34:33.300 interesting to see how quickly a trend can sweep and cause so much like conversation within a week

00:34:39.420 or something it got me thinking about a venn diagram of two topics i've seen on the internet

00:34:45.020 this week so one is obviously dot cakes people kind of being like we shouldn't be doing this

00:34:50.240 like just cutting down people making a freaking cake and two another viral clip from diary of the

00:34:57.560 steven bartlett so you might have seen this clip um it was actually in an episode from four months

00:35:04.820 ago but it's been making the rounds mostly on twitter to where i first saw it and it's an

00:35:09.740 episode with chris williamson of love island and in it steven is telling a story about how

00:35:15.920 drinking two glasses of wine ruined literally says ruined his life for three days steven says

00:35:24.040 I had a couple of glasses of wine, didn't get drunk. It ruined three days of my life because

00:35:29.100 of the domino effect it caused. I got worse sleep that night. And then because I got worse sleep

00:35:33.960 that night, I ate more poorly the next day because my dopamine system or whatever,

00:35:39.140 the cortisol system was all messed up. I podcasted worse. I didn't go to the gym that day

00:35:45.000 or the day after because I felt really bad. I then slept worse. These three glasses of wine

00:35:51.820 had this hidden domino effect that I must have been living with my whole life oh my god and they 1.00

00:35:56.860 say women are dramatic I guess it is dramatic but I also think it's another example of optimization 0.99

00:36:04.440 culture that I really think has swept the western world in the past like five years definitely 0.95

00:36:11.660 post-covid I think it's as a response to the covid pandemic like when we were out of control with

00:36:17.780 things in the health world, like we see it with the way that wellness industry has

00:36:22.740 exploded post-COVID. One content creator, Tinks, she made a video on this, which I thought was,

00:36:30.960 she had some great points. I think it's really critical that we

00:36:34.240 analyze what these thought leaders are saying, even in passing. And my belief is that the

00:36:41.740 optimization culture has gotten out of control. It has robbed an entire generation of joy

00:36:47.040 because of the demonization of fun if you don't have a perfect sleep score if you don't get up

00:36:52.420 and have a green juice and go to yoga oh well you're you're the worst oh my god you know that's

00:36:57.480 that's the worst thing you could possibly do for yourself um yeah have you noticed happiness levels

00:37:02.500 have been plummeting maybe that's because we're monitoring every single thing about ourselves

00:37:06.900 obviously tinks is like really general like she's making big sweeping statements like

00:37:11.220 robbed an entire generation of fun and like the demonization of joy these are all very like

00:37:17.440 rage baby kind of engagement terms and big sweeping generalizations but i do think she

00:37:24.140 has a point of like the optimization culture that these like tech bros wellness people are

00:37:30.540 positing on things like podcasts and this is not at all talking about people who do have

00:37:36.580 struggles with alcohol of course this is like the person who goes out on a Friday night or like

00:37:42.520 has a average social life and then like feels the guilt of like well I had two glasses of wine

00:37:49.040 but I had a great time with my friends but I shouldn't be doing that because I didn't get a

00:37:53.200 perfect sleep score and then like you can get a real like spiral of wellness and health anxiety

00:37:59.200 oh yeah I definitely think this is a big trend that's happening now I see it like not even these

00:38:06.320 big like wellness like business leader thought leader people but just like in everyday life

00:38:11.540 just the way that we have conversations I think that we're treating ourselves more as machines

00:38:16.560 and people like we are we are living creatures who aren't supposed to be working at like top

00:38:23.040 optimization productivity like that is not the main goal of being human that is the main goal

00:38:27.340 of a machine who is turning out outputs and I hate thinking about my life or myself in that way

00:38:33.740 it is why I try to like steer away from measurement uh like metrics metrics and stuff whether that be

00:38:41.580 like knowing how much I weigh or obviously like calorie counting or something like that or even

00:38:46.740 sometimes I like didn't want to look too much to like my step count or whatever and I know that

00:38:51.960 sounds like it could be nothing it could also just be like oh this is nice so I like to know

00:38:56.540 how much I've slept or how much I've walked or whatever I try to disengage with the numbers

00:39:03.160 that come with being a person yeah I feel like aside from the basics of like try to get seven

00:39:08.800 to eight hours sleep and like try to drink two to three liters of water like there's like human

00:39:13.020 basics but we were talking about this at the dinner table in Townsville with like aura rings

00:39:17.820 and some people on the table were saying like they love their aura ring it like really helps

00:39:22.040 them feel like they know their body more they really recommended it while other people mostly

00:39:27.100 us were like but don't you get anxiety of like okay if an app has told me that I've had a bad

00:39:32.780 sleep therefore I will believe that I've had a bad sleep and I'll probably mentally like feel worse

00:39:37.700 versus waking up maybe you did have a bad sleep maybe you did wake up more in the night but if

00:39:42.160 you don't know that it's like it's like basically being out of touch with your own body yeah and

00:39:47.200 like on my perspective on that one is more like I want to critically think for myself whether I

00:39:52.520 feel like I've had a good sleep or not because the numbers might tell a different story but I just

00:39:58.220 want to know and be in touch with my body and be like okay like how do I feel about that sleep I

00:40:02.500 don't want an app to tell me how to feel and in this conversation like it's easy to measure things

00:40:07.820 like productivity or like how many emails you answered or whatever but it's harder to measure

00:40:12.860 joy because it's more intangible how many smiles did I do today you know and that's so wholesome

00:40:18.940 yeah but maybe that's why these values aren't as prioritized but like just because you can't

00:40:24.500 track it doesn't mean it's not important it's like the tweet that's like how many grams of

00:40:29.200 protein are in a beautiful evening spent with friends. It's now time for Bookmarked where we

00:40:44.820 share something we've loved watching, reading or listening to this week. Maggie, you are up first.

00:40:50.260 I've got a podcast for us today. It is called The Grill. And this is a friend of the podcast,

00:40:56.500 Izzy White who I used to work with at Fashion Journal. It's her podcast that she has with her

00:41:00.640 two friends Ben and Tad. The thing is they've had this podcast for like a couple years now but

00:41:06.460 excitingly enough it got picked up by the ABC and this year it's had like a whole rebrand and it's

00:41:12.280 super fresh and I'm loving it. It's a comedy podcast where the hosts bring like a little

00:41:18.720 qualm from their week and then they roast. Like a pet peeve. Yeah a pet peeve like a little

00:41:24.920 complaint um and then they chat about it and then they grill that beef and let like let it go kind

00:41:32.520 of thing and I'm finding it so funny I think these three people they're not comedians but they are

00:41:38.920 like so naturally funny and they really I think a part of that gen z comedy like tiktok culture

00:41:48.020 community where like you just get it like it's almost like hyper local at times but it really

00:41:53.780 feels like you're in um like a group chat of sorts and i'm really liking it they have new

00:41:58.980 episodes every thursdays there's also a video on spotify and youtube and it's just like makes me

00:42:04.800 giggle like i'm not necessarily learning anything or whatever but it's sometimes nice to just have

00:42:09.040 a podcast where it's almost like a vibes podcast oh like media group chat that we're in some of

00:42:16.220 the girls have been saying that they can't listen to it in public because it's so funny like they 1.00

00:42:19.820 look a bit crazy laughing to themselves. So they reserve it for when they're home. So that's a

00:42:25.400 great, a great review. I think for someone to, for their first episode to try, maybe try,

00:42:30.780 it's called Crowd Smurfing. I love that one. How about you? What are you recommending this week?

00:42:36.940 The only thing I've watched is off campus. So I'm recommending kind of like a go-to that I read

00:42:42.740 weekly, which is The Long Live Substack by the writer Erica Verink. I recommended her book

00:42:49.420 exit lane a few months ago um this is the substack that she writes it's secondhand fashion made quote

00:42:57.860 chic and easy she describes herself as nancy myers but with an ebay addiction so i feel like that's

00:43:04.120 perfect copywriting of like kate i know exactly who you are and what you do uh erica is based in

00:43:10.900 new york and i just really like her writing on on fashion on beauty on it's kind of like a writer

00:43:18.460 writing about being a writer which not everyone likes and I think it's definitely like if you're

00:43:23.560 interested in the world of media and writing you'll probably like it more because it can be

00:43:29.360 quite meta at times but I just really like her voice and I have heard that she's writing a second

00:43:35.400 book so I'm also really keen for that so that's my kind of evergreen recommendation I understand

00:43:41.420 why it's evergreen because it looks like she releases a sub stack some of them are paid every

00:43:45.940 second day i'm shook at that i pay for her sub stack as well awesome my god yeah that's her it's

00:43:53.600 her main like job source of income so thank you i hadn't actually heard of it and it sounds up my

00:43:59.340 alley yay love that thank you so much listeners for joining us on another episode of culture club

00:44:04.780 we've loved having you here i know it's the end of the episode but just a reminder that you can

00:44:09.240 watch this on youtube so remember that for next time too thanks for listening and we'll talk to

00:44:15.100 you soon. Bye. Bye.

Culture Club - June 02, 2026

Dot Cakes, Pattie Gonia & The Demonisation Of Joy

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