Culture Club - Fashion As Indigenous Activism with Sianna Catullo

00:00:00.000 fashion as a tool for resistance performative activism collaborating with big name brands

00:00:13.320 and why we shouldn't celebrate invasion day we're media slashies maggie and jasmine and

00:00:20.160 this is our weekly chat about pop culture current affairs the internet and our lives

00:00:25.620 We would like to acknowledge that the Wurundjeri, Turrbal and Boon Wurrung people

00:00:32.640 are the traditional custodians of the land upon which we live, work and record this podcast.

00:00:39.040 We pay our respects to Elders past, present and emerging. Sovereignty was never ceded.

00:00:45.980 Tomorrow is Invasion Day. We would like to remind you that January 26 is a day of mourning,

00:00:52.140 not a day of celebration. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land.

00:00:58.160 For more information on who to follow and listen to this week and beyond,

00:01:02.260 keep an eye out for a resource list on our Instagram account at Culture Club Pod.

00:01:10.000 Today we are joined by Sienna Katullo, a proud Naronga woman whose family is from the Yore

00:01:15.620 Peninsula in Adelaide. Born and raised in Melbourne on Wawandri country, Sienna is a

00:01:20.900 head of branding and marketing at Clothing the Gap. This Aboriginal-owned and led social

00:01:25.900 enterprise fuses fashion with social change, using garments to spark important conversations

00:01:31.420 and to promote equity. Thanks for joining us today, Sienna.

00:01:35.120 So first of all, can you please tell us a little bit about yourself and Clothing the Gap?

00:01:40.580 So my name is Sienna Cotullo. I'm a proud Naurunga woman. So my family come from the

00:01:45.400 York Peninsula, but I was born and raised in Melbourne on Wurundjeri country. So I'm

00:01:50.360 the head of brand marketing at Clothing the Gap which is a Aboriginal owned and led social

00:01:55.640 enterprise whose main mission is to add views into Aboriginal people's lives. So how long has

00:02:02.340 it been around? How long has Clothing the Gap been around and what is it like working for a social

00:02:07.300 enterprise? So I've been with Clothing the Gap since the very beginning. We started as Spark

00:02:12.780 Health. We're all health professionals here so I've got a background in public health and everyone

00:02:18.480 else and our team all have public health backgrounds as well. So we started as a health

00:02:21.760 promotion business. I was their first employee. It's two of Laura and Sarah. They left the Aboriginal

00:02:27.340 Health Services and started their own business in health promotion. And I was their first employee.

00:02:32.520 I started as a volunteer for six months and we worked at the Fitzroy Football Club, which is an

00:02:40.840 Aboriginal football club down there, getting the juniors started. And we did some other Aboriginal

00:02:46.520 health promotion programs throughout Victoria as well and Laura who's a Gunda Jamara woman always

00:02:51.420 designed Aboriginal clothing and Aboriginal training singlets as incentives to motivate

00:02:56.660 people to come to all six or eight of the the program events and I think we just saw you know

00:03:04.160 the power of fashion and how we can make clothes to make people do things so we sort of rebranded

00:03:11.440 with Spark Health, rebranded and started making more.

00:03:16.540 So we always made training singlets for Aboriginal community,

00:03:18.900 but we said, all right, what's this going to look like

00:03:20.700 if we start making streetwear clothes and we open up to, you know,

00:03:24.760 the wider community and sell it to Aboriginal people

00:03:27.260 and non-Indigenous people because, you know,

00:03:29.920 Aboriginal people and mob always get around other Aboriginal businesses

00:03:33.120 and Aboriginal clothing.

00:03:34.920 So we knew they were always going to support us and buy from us, 1.00

00:03:37.820 but how can we get non-Indigenous people to buy from us 1.00

00:03:41.420 So we started, we rebranded, went streetwear and started something really simple that wasn't

00:03:46.240 really scary for non-Indigenous people by just having like Clothin' the Gap as a name

00:03:50.900 on a T-shirt and I think it was more the branding and the marketing strategy in that where it

00:03:58.360 was our first photo shoot and we got, I think there was three Aboriginal people and three

00:04:02.200 non-Indigenous people.

00:04:03.280 One was Somalian, an Indian Irish and I think we had a Scottish person and then maybe an

00:04:10.940 Aussie male and we pretty much rebranded as we're closing the gap by running a health promotion

00:04:15.900 program but you can clothe the gap and help us so that was our in our way in and you know health

00:04:21.740 promotion was still our main gig so the clothing thing was just our little side hustle we did

00:04:26.080 because it was fun and I loved it so much and I think it didn't really grow until like it got

00:04:32.480 it got pretty it got some traction and a lot of people followed us but it wasn't until the flag

00:04:38.740 stuff really happened and then COVID happened that clothing got really got really big and now

00:04:43.840 it's become its own registered business late last year so it's that it's its own thing we've just

00:04:49.920 employed like 12 new staff members so it's literally gone from four people to about I think

00:04:55.280 there's 17 of us in less than a year now which is super exciting because yeah growth is awesome

00:05:02.760 and it means we can have more Aboriginal people in our space and yeah it's it's cool yeah that's

00:05:08.160 amazing it feels well obviously as you said it really has like blown up in the last year

00:05:12.720 we were wondering why did you decide to use fashion as the vehicle for this indigenous activism

00:05:18.700 i don't think um you know fashion as activism isn't new especially in the aboriginal community

00:05:25.220 we've been you know wearing our flag and our colors for generations um you know to protest

00:05:31.860 and to celebrate, you know, our pride and our identity,

00:05:35.520 but protest against, you know, I guess the things that were happening.

00:05:39.980 So it wasn't new for us.

00:05:41.460 It's what Aboriginal people have always done.

00:05:44.360 I guess fashion and T-shirts gives us a voice

00:05:50.120 when we're too tired to speak.

00:05:51.860 It lets us know, you know, it's an opportunity to wear your values

00:05:54.980 and your tea and, you know, let the world know where you stand

00:05:58.900 and Clothing the Gap's whole purpose is take others on a journey with us.

00:06:02.780 You know, we're here to educate people and create conversations

00:06:05.380 and we think clothing is a great way of doing that.

00:06:07.860 I think we saw the power of fashion.

00:06:11.520 We always knew it was there but we really saw it when we started

00:06:14.220 the Free the Flag movement and we got all the AFL clubs on board

00:06:17.400 and it wasn't until we really saw, yeah, the power of fashion

00:06:21.540 when it was Eddie Betts and he's like everyone's favourite football player

00:06:25.000 my dad and brother's like god um and it was it was that moment when you know they all said all

00:06:32.840 the football clubs um all the players wore our free the flag t-shirt for warm-up and the pre-game

00:06:37.560 but after the game I think it was Carlton versus someone I probably should know that um but Carlton

00:06:44.940 won and before Eddie Betts celebrated his win with his team he went and grabbed his free the

00:06:49.560 flag t-shirt and put it back on and the up floor of the crowd um it was just great it was like

00:06:55.940 goosebumps um and we saw again like this clothing and fashion really really has um it's powerful

00:07:03.660 and it can really make a it can really do something create social change and we've seen that

00:07:09.720 um you know I've read somewhere and I think we've really seen that lately is fashion can be more

00:07:15.380 influential than politics um because you know fashion's everywhere you don't have to you know

00:07:20.720 be a politics geek which I'm not to understand it and make and you don't have to be in politics to

00:07:26.320 make a change like look at the clothing brands and and what you're wearing is making changes

00:07:31.280 conversations and education make change and yeah fashion's doing that yeah I'm wearing my always

00:07:38.040 was always will be sure and I was getting a coffee this morning and I was thinking about it and

00:07:42.360 when I wear it I yeah it's really interesting watching people's faces like some people

00:07:47.760 scowl or look really confused and then other people smile and give me a nod and yeah I find

00:07:53.860 that so interesting that yeah like you said you're wearing your values on your tee and

00:07:58.360 you're making a statement just by like walking down the street and saying what you think is

00:08:03.140 important. And that's what I really like you know an unindigenous person can never be in an 1.00

00:08:08.040 Aboriginal person's shoes but you know they can really get a feel for it when you do wear t-shirts

00:08:12.900 like that because you know there are there's a lot of people and I'm from Melbourne in the

00:08:17.360 northern suburbs where everyone really celebrates um us and they're very quite progressive so I

00:08:21.880 don't really ever deal with racism that much but you know you do occasionally if you're wearing 0.95

00:08:27.880 that t-shirt get a get a look and I'm glad that non-Indigenous people wear our stuff because they

00:08:33.340 get to experience that a tiny bit um and you know at the end of the day it's never going to be the 1.00

00:08:38.300 same they can always take the t-shirt off and be like I don't have to deal with that but um for

00:08:42.180 that slight second you know if it's they get to yeah they get to realize and sort of experience 0.94

00:08:49.560 what it's like living in Aboriginal people's shoes um but yeah on the flip side as well you get to 0.61

00:08:54.960 you know the the head nods and the smiles and that you get are awesome yeah there's a lot more than 0.95

00:09:01.120 of that which is very good to see but yeah that's it's so powerful that what you're saying

00:09:06.240 yeah I was house sitting in Brunswick West um just like over Christmas and things like that

00:09:12.480 so much clothing the gap match I saw it everywhere walking down the street and that was really lovely

00:09:18.920 and refreshing to see I'm from like the southeast of Melbourne um so it was awesome and you've

00:09:24.120 recently opened up a store there as well haven't you yeah so we used to be impressed in this tiny

00:09:29.600 little office it's so ridiculous when you say like comparing what we've got now it's like on

00:09:34.140 top of rent-a-bomb it was like a four office little tiny thing and we tried to fit all of us

00:09:39.800 in there um and we we didn't there was no room for a shop um but it was funny just like going

00:09:45.620 walking around Preston and Northgate just closing the gap everywhere and it gets like not embarrassing

00:09:51.260 like I'm really proud and I love seeing people in myself but I'm like oh my god we're absolutely

00:09:55.100 everywhere um and then we're like all right let's leave we've done Northgate we've done Preston like

00:10:00.280 everyone's wearing our stuff now let's go and infect Brunton wearing our stuff and it's working

00:10:06.960 because I drive home every day and I can count two or three people wearing our stuff on the street

00:10:11.520 when I when I see it yeah it's awesome the store's massive um we've got the front store and then we've

00:10:20.760 got distribution out the back and we've got our offices on top so everything's sort of done in

00:10:25.200 house um and our manufacturer is a 15 minute drive in Thomastown so everything from the designing to

00:10:32.500 the making is all made within like a 15 kilometer radius and all in Wurundjeri country which we're

00:10:38.600 super proud of um yeah we're moving towards fully Australian made stuff as well um we currently

00:10:44.980 get Azkala which is you know made in Bangladesh but we're working with our manufacturer to try

00:10:50.740 to make um all our garments Australian made and we've got a we've got a range at the moment that

00:10:55.900 are um but yeah we're super proud we're the first Aboriginal business to get ethical um ethical

00:11:01.120 Australia credit credit credit accreditation accreditation yeah accreditation yeah you got

00:11:08.140 it I think yeah um yeah we're the first Aboriginal business which we're super proud of that's so good

00:11:13.340 and I also saw that maybe middle of last year you did a collaboration with uh Frank Green as well

00:11:19.780 So how has that been, you know, working alongside non-Indigenous businesses to kind of further your name and everything?

00:11:26.280 Yeah, it's cool.

00:11:28.260 We love doing collaborations.

00:11:29.640 Our first collaboration was Homie Street Bear.

00:11:32.480 I was super proud of that because, you know, when we started Clearing the Gap, I looked at Homie as inspiration.

00:11:41.120 Yeah, so Homie is another social enterprise and 100% of their profits go and support youth homelessness and hardship.

00:11:47.300 So when we started clearing the gap and our mission was 100% of our profits are probably being reinvested into health promotion programs and influencing social change.

00:11:58.360 So we messaged, I just sent them like a DM one day or an email being like, hey, I'd love to meet up with you guys and just talk business about how you guys run stuff.

00:12:07.420 And, you know, we went out for coffee and the first thing they said when they sat down, it was like, let's do a collab.

00:12:11.880 I was like, oh my God, I've got all your stuff. 1.00

00:12:14.640 super cool and it's really cool having non-indigenous businesses come on this journey

00:12:21.100 with us because for them for us it's and frank green as well for us it's um getting our name

00:12:25.940 out there more and you know hitting a wider scope but for them it's an education piece of

00:12:30.560 you know they're learning so much and homie is so great they reshare out all our um resources

00:12:36.300 for jan 26 last year they they got all of our posters and put them in their window

00:12:40.460 So it's cool that they get to educate their audience as well as, like, teach us stuff.

00:12:46.380 And the same with Frank Green as well.

00:12:47.660 They've got a massive audience.

00:12:48.920 So, like I said, we're all health promotion people.

00:12:51.540 We're not marketing people.

00:12:52.880 We're not social media people.

00:12:55.600 We're not the business type people.

00:12:57.380 So collabing with people like Frank Green who, you know, they do decks and they do, like,

00:13:02.760 strategy marketing and all this stuff that we do not do, it's cool to learn those things

00:13:08.420 from them.

00:13:09.600 and you know now I know how to I think they're called like EDMs I was like what the hell is an

00:13:13.860 EDM I call it like a male chimp yeah I know I was like I was like is that electronic dance music 0.90

00:13:19.340 are we talking about that or emails you know like saying all these big words and I had to stop them 0.91

00:13:24.060 one day I'm like I'm sorry I can't pretend to be so professional I've no idea what you guys are

00:13:27.420 talking about I made a thought all hilarious because like you do what you do so well but

00:13:31.440 we're just doing it we're just doing it because it feels right um but yeah so it's awesome being

00:13:36.200 able to club with those things because we get to learn like business stuff and how they do things

00:13:40.400 and make our life a bit easier but yeah for them to be able to educate their platform and um so we

00:13:46.780 did water bottles with them and it was their fastest selling sellout collab they've ever done

00:13:52.940 um which is we're super proud that you know um it was there always was always will be and it's like

00:14:00.400 majority of australia agree with us and they're siding with us and they want to support the cause

00:14:06.120 and we just thought that was really, really cool.

00:14:08.040 Like our collab, which is quite political, and we were quite nervous.

00:14:13.460 We weren't sure how it was going to go, but this collab did better

00:14:16.560 than Disney and did better than Minions.

00:14:20.940 Minions.

00:14:21.560 Yeah, I think they've got Minions thing, which, yeah,

00:14:24.880 they weren't expecting like now we've got a backlog of orders

00:14:27.940 because they thought, you know, they thought like, oh, yeah,

00:14:29.800 we'll order stuff and it'll just be able to go, you know,

00:14:31.960 they'll keep coming, but they saw it out so fast that they're just like

00:14:34.800 we weren't expecting this um so yeah that's cool we've also just done a partnership with um

00:14:40.960 key um they do like sunglasses but they've just oh yes awesome so key started doing um

00:14:48.300 like campaigns on education so they did NAIDOC week last year they and they're in American

00:14:54.360 business now so they did the Black Lives Matter campaign so they hit us up and wanted to do a

00:14:59.040 campaign with gen 26 so um it's cool being able to learn how to how to collab with other

00:15:04.840 businesses and they don't always have to be product based but it can be campaigns and education

00:15:10.940 and you know as a social enterprise we're all about education we'll always keep doing that but

00:15:15.540 business for profits they're now changing the way that they run they run and they're starting to do

00:15:21.160 more campaigning stuff and education stuff um i think is really really cool so um yeah key is our

00:15:27.300 first sort of collab partnership that we've done this year and I'm just excited to see what other

00:15:33.340 ones can can come up and what else we can do with other businesses is that coming out soon for 26

00:15:40.900 yeah so um yeah we first day back into the office and smashed out a whole video campaign with them

00:15:47.820 which was stressful but um and exhausted but yeah so that'll come out in the next couple of weeks

00:15:53.000 cool so exciting yeah super exciting and um you mentioned earlier um the free the flag campaign

00:15:59.800 so for those who don't know can you please explain the copyright issues behind the aboriginal flag

00:16:04.580 yeah so the aboriginal flag is one of the only flags in the world that is copyrighted which means

00:16:10.920 that there is a licensee fee on there and someone can control the flag um it's under the flag act

00:16:18.340 as well so you know every other flag that's under the flag has free use of the flag as long as they

00:16:23.600 use it respectfully but with the aboriginal flag that's not the same case so um harold thomas is

00:16:29.520 the designer and the copyright owner of the flag but he's licensed it out to three separate

00:16:34.600 companies um and all three of those companies are non-indigenous and they um request is putting it

00:16:43.000 nicely but they expect payment um and really enforce their licensing um about paying if you

00:16:49.760 want to use the aboriginal flag you pay for it even aboriginal people even aboriginal businesses

00:16:54.380 aboriginal organizations um and even community groups have to pay to use their flag um and you

00:17:00.900 know when we when we first started obviously as proud aboriginal people um we had flags on our

00:17:06.120 products we had beanies we had a jumper that was like ridiculous i had like five different flags

00:17:10.660 on it it was hilarious um and we had like sweat tell we had heaps of fly products and we got we

00:17:16.520 got sent a season to sis saying you've got three days to stop selling um and you know as proud

00:17:22.280 aboriginal women and women that probably don't take no for an answer we don't think it's right

00:17:26.600 we didn't think this was okay so we started a campaign um we started a petition i think we've 1.00

00:17:32.920 got maybe close to 200 000 signatures on that now um and pretty much the whole campaign is about

00:17:40.160 lobbying lobbying to the government to change the licensing rights on the on the aboriginal flag

00:17:44.880 um it's been in the works so that was june 2019 we started that um it really gained traction though

00:17:53.900 last year when we got the afl um or the afl club supporting the campaign collingwood was the first

00:18:01.220 club to jump on and before covid we'd been planning this for like six months beforehand and

00:18:06.700 Collingwood is going to have the banner and it's going to be on their uniform and it was going to

00:18:10.040 be this really big thing that Collingwood just did and then COVID hit and everything went into

00:18:15.700 you know who knew what was happening so the campaign wasn't going to be you know as big

00:18:21.720 as we wanted it to be because they were just trying to figure out if they were going to play

00:18:24.900 or not that week so when Collingwood hit us up and said you know not we're still going to do

00:18:30.860 this campaign Indigenous round it's not going to be as big as we wanted it but you know we still

00:18:34.640 want to raise awareness about this um and we said yeah that's awesome but do you mind if we hit up

00:18:39.360 every other football club too because we really need to make this big um and they said go for it

00:18:44.540 and in three days we got every single afl football club sign on to the campaign it was a very

00:18:51.160 stressful three days trying to get thousands of t-shirts to all the players all over australia

00:18:56.340 um i've never like oh it was crazy we're hitting up like manufacturing companies in perth and

00:19:01.680 Adelaide and all this and lucky the people who the manufacturing companies were huge AFL fans

00:19:06.500 and they were just like yeah it's like my favorite play gets to wear it like I'll do it for you in a

00:19:10.460 day as long as I can deliver it myself um it was awesome and yes every AFL club joined I mean every

00:19:18.000 nearly every AFL player wore the free the flag t-shirt pre-game and raised awareness and I still

00:19:23.720 see them wearing it today on the Instagram and all that which is awesome to see um but seeing just

00:19:30.200 you know the community get around that like we did that in three days and it wasn't just us doing

00:19:34.420 that like we were calling any aboriginal person we knew in any football club to make that happen so

00:19:38.920 um it was huge to pull it off but we don't think that it was just we were just responsible for

00:19:44.120 that we think the whole community was whether it's you know the aboriginal people in the clubs

00:19:47.940 the community members it was we were posting on twitter like even just the supporters of those

00:19:53.480 people those clubs were you know we're twittering the ceos and twittering the players like why aren't

00:19:58.260 you joining why aren't you joining it was a it was a huge community effort um and we're super

00:20:04.120 proud of it and um i think a lot of the people have renamed the free the flag t-shirt as eddie

00:20:09.420 betts t-shirt like that much of a statement um but yeah it's really raised a lot of awareness

00:20:16.020 it's um and then shortly after that there was an investigation in in parliament um so when we talk

00:20:24.320 about you know it's fashion got the power to influence social change like it did and yeah so

00:20:30.040 there was an investigation that's happened to it it's actually budgeted this year there's in the

00:20:35.120 budget there's the aboriginal flag so fingers crossed something happens this year um hopefully 0.97

00:20:41.000 it's free we're not too sure how it's going to happen but at least you know it's it's on their

00:20:44.980 agenda that is incredible to hear about you know all the changes been happening um all throughout

00:20:52.100 the AFL club and how it's even transitioned into parliament um it's even even great when you

00:20:57.300 mentioned that you see people wearing your merch when you're out and about but I'm wondering you

00:21:01.200 know another invasion day is coming up and the date is yet to be changed do you and the clothing

00:21:06.620 the gap team are you guys seeing much process in people changing their mindset around this

00:21:12.920 I don't see the government doing anything about it anytime soon but I'm seeing a shift in people's

00:21:19.920 the way people think about it and the way that people approach it like we've just written an

00:21:25.960 article about it my um close friend tanisha atkinson who's a yorta yorta woman she's an

00:21:30.780 amazing writer um and she wrote you know just the eight things you should know about gen gen 26 and

00:21:36.400 um that's got over 200 000 views on our instagram page and it's got over 12 000 shares and on

00:21:42.860 facebook it's got 80 000 views so it's really even though i don't think the government's going to do

00:21:48.620 anything I think we're really shifting the way people think about it and educating people

00:21:53.120 about it a lot of people don't understand why gen 26 is offensive and like I can't hate them too

00:21:59.660 much for it because you know aboriginal studies and histories wasn't taught in schools and

00:22:04.520 it's still not taught now and as long unless you know aboriginal people people don't really get

00:22:11.380 why it's called invasion day and they don't get why it's a day of mourning so um that's why social

00:22:17.720 media is amazing because we can educate on there we can hit a wide audience so I'm seeing yeah the

00:22:22.960 shift of people really educating themselves um which is really awesome and deciding not to

00:22:28.940 celebrate it and and spending this time this month on um educating themselves and their family and

00:22:35.140 their kids about you know the real history of Australia and and the history of Aboriginal

00:22:39.500 Australia and um yeah I think that's really cool to see and and seeing businesses um a lot of

00:22:47.020 businesses have hit us up we've just done articles urban list because urban list said you know we're

00:22:51.980 making sure that we're not we're letting it be told that we're not celebrating gen 26 and we're

00:22:56.060 going to educate people why we're not um so urban list is doing that broadsheets hit us up and

00:23:00.720 they're doing an article about it home is um posting about it key who's got you know they're

00:23:06.960 american brands now and it's got you know millions of followers they're they've just come out with a

00:23:12.600 campaign about gen 26 and why it's not a day to celebrate so i'm seeing a shift in businesses and

00:23:17.680 people um educating themselves about it and consciously thinking about how they're going

00:23:23.880 to spend the day which i'm really proud of um and yeah we've got you know heaps of people coming

00:23:30.700 into our store and buying online because they want to they want to be wearing one of our t-shirts and

00:23:34.580 invasion day even if they're not going to if they're going to the rally but um if they're

00:23:39.780 not going to the rally and you know their barbecue or whatever they're doing that day we had

00:23:44.440 a guy last year who we had no idea how he found us but he was going camping that weekend with

00:23:51.120 his friends and he had to come and buy a knot the deck to celebrate t-shirt from us before he went

00:23:57.080 because he wanted to educate those people on that camping trip of why it's not a day to celebrate

00:24:02.480 um and he was yeah using our t-shirt to educate his circle um which is cool so I'm seeing yeah

00:24:09.380 I'm seeing a shift in the way people think and yeah I don't know if government will do anything

00:24:14.840 about it but you know it's power of the people government don't have to do anything to influence

00:24:19.360 change it's it's the people so yeah yeah seeing less Aussie flags and Aussie plates around which

00:24:26.400 is nice Bunnings also Bunnings in Brunswick isn't you know Bunnings is you know they've got the

00:24:31.620 barbecue stuff and the all the Aussie barbecue things that you typically do on a show day

00:24:37.800 um but Bunnings have decided you know we're not we're not doing that this year and they haven't

00:24:41.780 got any Australian flags they've made all their staff buy t-shirts from us and getting their

00:24:45.960 staff to wear our t-shirts at Bunnings in Brunswick so I'm like yes like it's cool

00:24:52.020 yeah that's so influential and like you were saying Urban List, Broadsheet and Bunnings like

00:24:57.000 they all have such different demographics and then with people talking to their circle that's

00:25:01.960 really how you like make progress I was also wondering recently the Australian government

00:25:08.460 changed one word in the national anthem from young and free to one and free the fact this

00:25:14.240 happened in January do you think this is really performative or like what's your opinion and your

00:25:20.140 community's opinion on this yeah I think it's completely tokenistic and you know it's a it's a

00:25:26.120 your performative activism are like look we've done something and you know that's that's not

00:25:31.580 enough and even even when you talk about Australia Day and changing the date like changing the date

00:25:37.900 is still not enough like you're celebrating a country that you know Aboriginal people have one 0.80

00:25:43.320 of the worst life expectancies in the world we've got one of the highest suicide rates we've got one 1.00

00:25:48.480 of the highest incarceration rates and these are your First Nation people so even changing the date 0.99

00:25:53.320 changing an anthem that's not doing anything to fix a problem and you're not doing anything to

00:26:01.600 change a system um like it's we need systemic change and not until then you can you know

00:26:10.000 celebrate australia or um yeah celebrate australia day um and i think it's the same with the with the

00:26:18.060 anthem as well um there's a lot of people that have come out with like different versions of

00:26:23.300 of an anthem um but yeah I'm not all over the anthem saga I think Briggs is really really

00:26:30.060 he's he's done a really well job of um breaking it down and how it's offensive and all of that but

00:26:36.960 I think yeah even if they change an anthem it's all performative activism we actually need to see

00:26:42.260 real change on on the ground and within the system we totally agree that systemic change

00:26:48.140 is needed and I guess on an individual level that can kind of feel overwhelming so what would be the

00:26:54.400 best way you would recommend people can use their voices and actions for Indigenous rights and even

00:27:00.260 perhaps even in the healthcare sector as well? I think it's super important to you know amplify

00:27:07.920 Black voices and Aboriginal people and bring them this them on this journey you know there's this

00:27:13.500 white saviour like I want to help and I'm going to do everything and I know how to do it all and

00:27:17.380 there's this white saviour mentality it's like no aboriginal people have been doing what they've

00:27:21.320 been doing and caring for country and caring for our community for generations like we know

00:27:25.580 we know what's best for our people we know what what needs to change so listen to aboriginal

00:27:31.580 people um amplify their voices like give them opportunities to speak put them up in higher

00:27:37.780 positions like this whole thing with you know after the whole black lives matter movement is

00:27:43.820 getting you know they want to get more aboriginal models and all of this on their pages like that's

00:27:50.320 not really it's performative and it's tokenistic like get we need aboriginal people we need

00:27:55.080 colored people in decision making and higher up positions where we can actually make real

00:28:00.980 real change um but education is like always i say education is vital and that's the most

00:28:07.700 important thing to make real change um and start it with the schools starting in the system

00:28:12.360 um education is what's going to change change things clothing the gap um you opened up your

00:28:19.380 brunswick store you were voted business of the year at the dreamtime awards published in vogue

00:28:24.780 and obviously led the campaign we've been talking about so what's on the cards for this year apart

00:28:29.380 from the key campaign um hopefully more clubs with other businesses even if they're just campaign

00:28:36.360 education campaigns because yeah education is what we're super passionate about we hope that

00:28:42.520 the flag is free and we can see an influx of aboriginal flags in aboriginal businesses

00:28:49.060 um we're still not too sure if the flag is free it will be the people making flag products

00:28:54.220 um but we just really want to see the visibility of the aboriginal flag

00:28:58.520 flown by aboriginal people again um and what else have we got planned yeah more virtual runs

00:29:06.880 We've seen the power in virtual runs this year after COVID

00:29:09.820 and how influential they are and just how great they are

00:29:14.860 and how much we love it.

00:29:16.220 So we're definitely going to keep doing the virtual runs

00:29:18.700 and our foundation, Clone the Gut Foundation,

00:29:22.180 is going to be announced as well.

00:29:24.040 So stay tuned for that.

00:29:27.260 And I think that's, yeah, we're not really people

00:29:31.660 who plan 12 months ahead.

00:29:33.860 We're sort of the type of people that it just comes to us

00:29:36.040 And I'm like, yeah, we're going to go with this.

00:29:37.480 We're going to go with this.

00:29:38.560 So I feel like I haven't thought further than like a month.

00:29:43.120 But yeah, which makes it more exciting because it makes us more, you know, versatile in the

00:29:48.940 sense that when things come to us, we're really open-minded and can get things done real fast.

00:29:54.060 And, you know, I feel like when we have a 12-month plan, you're closed off from a lot

00:29:58.240 of ideas because you're too focused on something and opportunities can come up.

00:30:01.800 So, yeah, we're excited to see what new opportunities come up for us

00:30:07.020 and how we go with that.

00:30:08.900 Yeah, you can tell that you're a very busy woman.

00:30:11.800 So what about away from work?

00:30:13.860 Where can we find you?

00:30:14.820 What do you enjoy doing?

00:30:16.320 The hard thing about working is like I'm head of marketing

00:30:19.160 and so social media is it's really hard to get away from your job

00:30:21.980 because social media is like on my phone,

00:30:24.200 which is attached to me at all times.

00:30:27.160 But I love running.

00:30:29.360 um I've been running for a few years now I did the New York marathon a few years ago

00:30:34.320 so yeah before COVID hit um and I think that's just my opportunity to like switch off completely

00:30:40.740 like I leave my phone at home and I'm going for a run you can't call me I can't see an Instagram

00:30:45.500 Instagram notification so um yeah running's like my hobby and that's how I how I relax um and

00:30:54.200 obviously friends and family but I think I just need a I love and I want to start spending more

00:30:59.080 time outdoors camping connecting the country I got to um on my holidays this year I got to

00:31:06.320 actually go visit my home in Adelaide on the York Peninsula and just camped there for a while and

00:31:11.800 it's just so nice to be able to get out and just get out of the city and disconnect from your phone

00:31:17.780 and people and businesses and just you know recoup and reconnect so I think that's my my goal for

00:31:24.520 this year is to keep doing more of those things this week invasion day is coming up what would

00:31:30.380 you say to someone listening now who is planning on celebrating jan 26 i would say start by

00:31:36.620 listening to the song jan 26 by ab original um it's briggs and this other guy that i can't remember

00:31:44.720 his name um but there's a really good line on there talking about you know pick a date to

00:31:51.340 celebrate and then we'll go to your nan's grave and we'll start drinking and and it's yeah it

00:31:58.740 gets a bit like it splits it but it's such a good analogy of like that's what you're celebrating 0.60

00:32:02.800 when you're celebrating June 26 you're celebrating massacres you're celebrating rape you're

00:32:07.780 celebrating stolen children so um start your day off with that song it'll make you feel a bit better

00:32:13.660 um yeah i don't know just listen yeah listen and i think if they are celebrating um i think you'll

00:32:24.240 see it a lot more on social my my followers you see it a lot on social media about you know it's

00:32:28.640 invasion day it's just it's survival day and there are aboriginal people that actually do

00:32:33.020 celebrate gen 26 and it's not australia day it's survival day and they're celebrating their

00:32:37.960 survival and they're celebrating their resistance and their resilience still to this day so you

00:32:43.400 know listen to that and understand why why that's a thing um yeah and and learn thank you sienna that

00:32:50.640 was incredible we really value your space and your words we really appreciate the time for you to

00:32:57.140 educate non-indigenous people because we can't even imagine how tiring and emotionally draining 0.99

00:33:01.880 that can be definitely encourage all our listeners to check out clothing the gap buy some merch get 0.97

00:33:07.720 behind it thank you so much again for coming on culture club today thank you for having me

00:33:13.900 it was my fun first podcast for the year

Culture Club - January 24, 2021

Fashion As Indigenous Activism with Sianna Catullo

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