Culture Club - Gaslight, Gatekeep, Girlboss

00:00:00.000 Gossip Girl's Gen Z Makeover, a scathing fashion podcast about privilege that's taken the internet

00:00:13.180 by storm and is Instagram dying? We're Jasmine and Maggie and you're listening to season three

00:00:20.420 of Culture Club. This is our weekly chat about pop culture, current affairs, the internet and

00:00:26.680 of course, our lives. We acknowledge that the Wurundjeri and Boon Wurrung people are the

00:00:32.640 traditional custodians of the land upon which we live, work, and record this podcast. We would

00:00:38.900 like to pay our respects to elders past, present, and emerging. Always was, always will be Aboriginal

00:00:45.840 land. Hello, Jazz. Hello, listeners. It's been a long time, hasn't it? Hello. It has been 1.00

00:00:56.040 one whole month, I think, since we recorded our one-on-one podcast. We had an interview with

00:01:03.560 Milo, which we hope you enjoyed if you listened to that. But yeah, it is now the middle of July

00:01:09.220 nearly, and we're back for season three. And it's a little bit of a weird one. We expected to record

00:01:16.060 this with you still being in Sydney, but now you're back because of the clusterfuck that is

00:01:21.940 currently happening in Sydney, thinking of everyone who is in Sydney right now, but you

00:01:27.100 managed to escape before the hard border lockdown that is probably coming any day now. How do you

00:01:33.080 feel? What's going on? Can you give us a debrief? Oh, I know it's been such a roller coaster. So

00:01:40.120 I was meant to be in Sydney for six or seven weeks because of work. And then halfway through

00:01:47.160 that trip um lockdown happened oh my god yeah sorry I just like my brain froze because I'm so

00:01:55.000 used to being in lockdown it feels like normal life so I was like oh was that a lockdown yes it

00:01:58.680 was so lockdown happened in Sydney and then everything just kind of started getting much

00:02:04.920 much worse so I made the very quick decision just two days ago to come back home to Melbourne so I

00:02:11.460 am recording live from my bedroom as always here is where I'll be for the next two weeks

00:02:16.960 hard lockdown I can't even go outside can't even go for a walk no that's okay I'm lucky I have

00:02:25.160 like a small backyard it doesn't really have any grass but like it's nice to get some fresh air

00:02:31.220 right god that's so intense I know but like I'm babied by my mum as everyone should know by now

00:02:38.020 I came home and on my bed she's um like on my blanket she's drawn a love heart and my little

00:02:42.900 sister like made a painting that literally says welcome home and then this is a very Asian parent

00:02:48.700 thing but I think also universally maybe um mum cut up all this nice fruit for me to eat which is

00:02:55.480 like the biggest symbol of love that's so cute wholesome vibes yeah I'm very glad that you're

00:03:01.700 home but you said you were on a work trip people following on Instagram may know but can you share

00:03:08.980 your new title please oh yes what you're working on this baby has entered full-time work for the

00:03:16.660 first time ever and she is now writer and producer of refinery 29 australia which is launching at

00:03:24.600 the end of july yay thank you so it's been really exciting um and really full-on but

00:03:33.060 yeah can't believe I'm a working girl no that's so exciting so it's been a mixture of like

00:03:39.780 excitement and change but then also COVID as usual ruining everything so we love that what

00:03:47.260 about you how have you been what have you been up to I feel like you've been having a bit of a cozy

00:03:51.880 girl winter yeah I have I've been trying to spend a lot of time with friends because we just had

00:03:58.400 that lockdown and as we all know I was in lockdown for my birthday um so I think I'm just trying to

00:04:04.660 like make up for the lost time and make sure like I'm jam-packing everything I can into

00:04:08.940 the weekends and like just living life we're just out here living life as Courtney Kardashian says

00:04:16.480 because you never know like as what happened with you you don't know when it could all change again

00:04:22.440 and you have to go back into your bedroom so yeah I went to the NGV today and saw the Monet

00:04:28.580 like the Impressionists gallery um had some brunch with some girls and yeah it's been quite a nice

00:04:35.640 winter which has been good no I love the sound of that cozy girl winter is so underappreciated

00:04:42.380 but I will have to say I was wearing t-shirts and singlets in Sydney's winter and I was that

00:04:49.480 annoying gal from Melbourne that just kept commenting about the weather everywhere I went

00:04:54.100 I'm like how's this lovely weather everybody I'm like yeah living it up there

00:04:58.520 ever since the trailer and pictures of this show were announced we have been talking about it

00:05:09.680 anticipating it posting every chance we get as soon as we're given a crumb of content and now

00:05:16.720 it's finally here so Gossip Girl reboot was released last week what are your initial thoughts

00:05:24.180 oh my god Jazz I'm so excited to be talking about this with you so we have actually not

00:05:29.820 debriefed in person or over the phone like this is our raw real honest thoughts you're getting

00:05:36.280 it delivered live here on Culture Club exclusive um but the thing is I think we're in the minority

00:05:42.880 like we're so excited about this I think again don't know your opinions but a lot of people

00:05:49.420 kind of don't care about it or are kind of disappointed there's been a lot of mixed reviews

00:05:56.000 but you've asked about mine so here they are I loved it oh my god it was one of those shows where

00:06:01.980 like after I watched it the next day I was thinking about it I don't know why I just

00:06:06.400 found it so entertaining and i'm just gripped by it what about you i felt a tad underwhelmed to be

00:06:13.840 honest i did feel like it was a little bit how do i say this a little bit more of a teeny drama

00:06:20.900 but then again the original gossip girl was a teen drama so maybe i'm just getting older but i did

00:06:27.360 enjoy it without when i didn't compare it to the original i am hooked by it i think that i want to

00:06:34.400 watch them all so that's a good sign but it didn't grab me in the way the original Gossip Girls

00:06:40.540 grabbed me. I also think with that original Gossip Girl series I watched it pretty late

00:06:46.920 like in life only a few years ago and I did think it took a little while to kind of build up into

00:06:52.780 the Gossip Girl we know and loved was. I like what you just mentioned as well because it kind

00:06:58.200 of reminded me of this piece I read in The Guardian and it was by Adrian Horton. I'll read a little

00:07:03.980 it now? It's worth asking how to judge the revival of a teen show whose flaws were baked into its

00:07:10.460 appeal. The original Gossip Girl, the high society soap about Upper East Side teens, was often

00:07:16.680 ludicrous, poorly acted and gloriously mean. It was also beloved both during its time and in its

00:07:23.460 years on streaming services for its completely absorbing portrait of the ultra-rich, a glamorous

00:07:29.660 recession-era fantasy in which everyone hooks up with everyone in a popularity war mediated by an

00:07:36.820 anonymous blogger. They end kind of scathingly with, that being said, the only real requirement

00:07:43.300 for a show like Gossip Girl is that it is watchable. By that measure, the new Gossip Girl

00:07:47.840 stumbles, but hot drama is hot drama. To quote one anonymous blogger, you know you love it,

00:07:53.120 though a clumsy homage straining for relevance isn't likely to court a new generation of devotees.

00:07:58.460 piece on Friday night I watched it I went to my friend Natalia's house she was inviting me over

00:08:03.660 for a sleepover which is very cute and we made food and stuff and then I was like oh my god we

00:08:07.620 can watch the new Gossip Girl and she was just like yeah sounds good and then I got there and

00:08:11.820 she's like I've actually never seen the original Gossip Girl so she was just watching it with like

00:08:16.060 no context of like what it was even about she had like a vague idea it was about rich kids

00:08:21.360 um so that was so fascinating we watched the reboot together and then I showed her the first

00:08:26.240 two episodes of the original and she said she preferred the original as like a non-biased thing

00:08:31.620 because I was thinking maybe my nostalgia is playing into it like I watched it probably two

00:08:36.680 years after it was released so I was like 14 15 like in 2009 so like still in that era um

00:08:44.980 so that was very interesting and she said that she thought the newer version was a lot darker

00:08:51.900 which i agree with i feel like they were straight in there with like sex drugs like popping pills

00:08:58.060 whereas in the first episode of the original they're like maybe smoke a joint and like talk

00:09:04.600 about sex like blair's still a virgin and like it's a big thing for her um to lose her virginity

00:09:10.600 to nate um but in the first one there's already like like poly relationships happening or it's

00:09:17.000 being alluded to so I found that the new one was like much more fast-paced but also is that a

00:09:24.380 result of the current culture like because of social media kids are getting into things younger

00:09:30.380 and younger like for example you'd say pre-teens these days don't have much of a pre-teen phase

00:09:35.480 because they have access to like youtube makeup tutorials or star bloggers so they can dress and

00:09:40.700 act in ways they're looking at people who are older than them um so maybe the new gossip girl

00:09:47.500 reboot is like playing into that idea of younger kids doing more adult things earlier oh so many

00:09:54.740 hot takes i think i remember reading a study that was like um our generation so gen z actually takes

00:10:01.460 less drugs and has less sex something along those lines they're now um older peers so potentially

00:10:08.460 potentially not i also feel like with shows like euphoria taking off i feel like tv shows think

00:10:14.220 that they need to be all like fast-paced and like full-on to grab grab attention and be kind of

00:10:20.220 scandalous and wild yeah i agree because we're in like the um attention economy right so if

00:10:27.880 something doesn't grab you immediately then you're probably just gonna forget about it which is what

00:10:33.640 i do with a lot of tv shows you know me like i barely ever finish tv shows because i just like

00:10:37.860 get bored of them which is so bad but yeah I am grabbed by this but I think it is because I want

00:10:42.820 to I'm not invested in the characters yet for sure I just want to see how it plays out I think I'm

00:10:48.700 just so lonely and locked out I really just liked it he's my friend no honestly but okay I want to

00:10:57.460 go back to this idea of nostalgia in tv shows we talk about it a lot when it comes to reboots

00:11:03.200 but what I love about this and I think a lot of people will relate to some degrees like growing

00:11:08.440 up maybe you fell in love with a lot of fantasy books or you just like fell into these kind of

00:11:14.360 fictional worlds that became your own and you know afterwards you'd imagine maybe like a life

00:11:20.620 in that world or you would think about what the characters are up to now don't know if that's a

00:11:25.080 very Pisces trait but did you have something like that? Well I did think like that especially because

00:11:31.840 i was sitting next to someone who'd never seen it before so i was kind of filling her in on like

00:11:35.140 the context of who characters were but i did feel like it was a bit cringe in the first 10 minutes

00:11:40.780 they referenced all of the old characters like why don't you just sprinkle that throughout they

00:11:45.780 were like the neat articles of the world um but i thought it was sweet that kristen bell is the same

00:11:52.640 is gossip girl's voice so i thought that was a nice touch they kept that the same even though

00:11:58.260 her voice has changed a little bit which probably explains some of the themes of the new one um

00:12:04.460 instead of being an anonymous blog gossip girl is on instagram and of course there are influences

00:12:11.380 rather than just super rich kids and it's a more racially and sexually diverse cast which is great

00:12:17.480 i found that really refreshing i really enjoyed that i actually really like the cast i went on

00:12:22.380 and like stalked them all on instagram after i watched the show which is a very telling sign

00:12:26.620 that I'm invested um yeah and I hadn't I didn't know any of the actors or actresses before the

00:12:34.440 show either apart from Tabby Gevinson of course Rookie Mag's creator and founder OG Tumblr Indie

00:12:41.960 Gals but speaking of the actors I also struggled with the fact that they were playing people a lot

00:12:50.280 younger than them so Leighton Meester and Blake Lively were both 2021 when they starred as 16

00:12:57.540 year olds um some of the cast members are 1920 um is it Audrey the blonde yeah Audrey and Zoya

00:13:06.080 the the half sister that comes in yeah they're both like 1920 yeah they're actually teens but

00:13:12.780 there was one of like the um main girl Julian's minions like left-hand woman who I was like she

00:13:20.000 is definitely like minimum 24 you know you can just tell I always think like oh you don't change

00:13:25.780 that much but then I'm like no you can tell that they're definitely mid-20s it is one of the

00:13:32.040 characters Luna La she's actually played by an actor who is 26 years old so 10 years and I find

00:13:40.980 it really unbelievable you know yeah also that I don't know I don't know the actress's name but

00:13:46.580 she's trans as well which is cool oh the actress yeah i like google because i was like oh my god

00:13:52.560 like 26 it's like old that's old for the show uh oh my god cancelled oh my god i'm so sorry

00:14:02.720 yeah also the main character as well jordan like the head honcho she's 27 the actress that plays

00:14:09.740 i know wait wait julian calloway's the actress yes julian is 27 yes see you could also tell that

00:14:17.940 by her face i was like in that scene where it's um the two sisters at the end of they've had the

00:14:23.240 fashion show blah blah and they're having an argument i was like looking at her skin and i

00:14:27.540 was like she looks definitely mid-20s like why have they cast her as a 16 year old and like

00:14:32.780 they're sitting in bars i'm like that doesn't look too scandalous because they look like they

00:14:37.520 could be in oh true that's no that was true but like I don't know I think I'm just so used to

00:14:43.020 having like mid to late 20s people play teenagers kind of like apart from Disney Channel which at

00:14:51.280 times was also that I'm kind of used to it so it didn't really stick out to me even Audrey to the

00:14:57.740 blonde one who's 19 like she looks older like I was like oh yeah she could be like 24 or something

00:15:02.660 whatever kind of yeah I don't know if it was a big deal for me I think the only thing though with

00:15:07.820 the age was oh my god so Zoya the half-sister she's supposed to be 14 in the show they mentioned

00:15:15.620 it that there was a line in the show where she's like she's like 14 and I had to google it I was

00:15:19.960 like what do you mean like so messed up in the first gospel girl Jenny and Eric are 14 in the

00:15:24.540 first season which I always lose my mind but um I okay spoiler alert I was getting really mad at

00:15:31.400 the internet because i thought that the whole season came out in one go and the internet was

00:15:36.260 spoiling who gossip girl was for the whole season but it's revealed in the first basically five

00:15:41.320 minutes we'll turn off if you don't want to here but the teacher's a gossip girl and that concept

00:15:50.100 is so crazy to me because it is basically teen harassment like the plot is that the students are

00:15:59.720 really awful to the teachers and the students are getting teachers fired for like trivial things

00:16:04.500 so the teachers are going to fight back with Gossip Girl because they learn who like Gossip

00:16:09.140 Girl was from 12 years ago but I just think it's like teacher harassment. Oh no it's so weird it's

00:16:16.260 I found it kind of embarrassing how like fearful they were and how like invested they were

00:16:21.900 in taking down this group of teenagers and you know if you accidentally like bump into one of

00:16:28.120 and they're like oh I'm so sorry let me like kiss your shoes or whatever you know like that vibe

00:16:32.580 and I understand that these teens are powerful because of their parents and that they're wealthy

00:16:37.240 and that yeah they could get them fired from their job but it was just kind of

00:16:42.300 unbelievable and like weird. Speaking of unbelievable what did you think about the

00:16:49.140 references to COVID and like wokeness and it was very 2021? Yeah I don't know why shows keep doing

00:16:57.540 this i don't mind how gossip girl handled it because it was very slight references that talked

00:17:04.080 about face masks like oh i didn't even see your mouth through wearing a face mask or like zoom

00:17:09.100 calls but i know other shows i'm watching um like this is us their recent season is really heavily

00:17:15.660 based on covid and the bowl type also went really hard on like cancel culture and a lot of current

00:17:22.240 affairs i don't know i feel like it's not needed you watch tv for escapism i agree i actually barely

00:17:29.520 even noticed the references it wasn't until afterwards that people were talking about

00:17:32.840 the covid references that i got it i was thinking oh this is filmed in 2019 um but it wasn't yeah

00:17:39.220 yeah i'm overthinking and talking about it i don't want to like have to watch it when i'm

00:17:45.280 you know trying to escape i found it so funny because a lot of the time uh reading reviews

00:17:51.180 of the show people were like it tries really hard to be relevant but it's already behind and I feel

00:17:56.520 like to no one's fault their fashion felt so 2020 right bike shorts and those boots um and kind of

00:18:04.360 like their oversized sweaters with the collared shirts um and I think that's just an indictment

00:18:09.880 on like how fast fashion keeps changing and how trends keep changing that for me that felt kind

00:18:16.640 of last year wow that's so interesting because usually it would be probably like five years like

00:18:23.260 you would be able to tell a show or like a piece of culture within like three to five years i'd say

00:18:28.740 like i could probably pick clothes from 2017 and be like about so 2017 16 but that's so scary that

00:18:35.120 even like last year's clothes are already like seen as so 2020 in the out of date already

00:18:41.360 i mean this show doesn't shy away from tackling big themes like class and privilege and and

00:18:49.600 whatnot and at times it did feel a bit overly worthy you know i wish it was just more about

00:18:56.880 like sex drugs and rich kids yeah like just fashion and general school drama you know what

00:19:03.660 i mean like it doesn't have to deal with these big world issues i wish it would almost just like

00:19:08.280 fess up to being a really bingeable and watchable show. I love this take from Vulture writer

00:19:14.880 Catherine van Ardendonk. I'll read some now. It is fundamentally hollow at the core, frivolous

00:19:22.080 and frothy, studded with sequins and infidelities and students who lust for their teachers, 1.00

00:19:27.300 but gay. It seems uneasy without emptiness, but he lacks the desire or capability to backfill 1.00

00:19:33.180 everything with earnestness or do-goodery and some later scenes in the series where it attempts

00:19:38.240 to suddenly find sincerity are among the worst most cringeworthy parts of the four episodes

00:19:44.220 provided to critics. We're supposed to send the students out of here as Barack Obama's not Brett

00:19:49.420 Kavanaugh's Kate says in the premiere. The line is meant as an expression of fear for their moral

00:19:54.920 souls and there's an immediate sense that this is what the new gossip girl thinks it must be

00:19:59.420 or maybe what it thinks it needs to look like it's trying to be in practice it's just more

00:20:05.360 name dropping it'd be a relief if the show could just admit it boom so with that convo and just

00:20:11.940 the first episode i am definitely excited to see where it goes i just don't think that it will have

00:20:17.500 the cultural impact that the original gossip girl had for sure but we do have some very juicy tweets

00:20:24.860 and memes about the show over on our Instagram so check them out and let us know what you think

00:20:30.040 about the series. From one privileged fictional world to a real Upper East Sider, Leandra Medine

00:20:41.200 Cohen, founder of blog-turned-media company Man Repeller, has found herself in hot water once again.

00:20:48.360 Last year a number of girl boss companies dealt with a racial reckoning after the murder of George

00:20:53.920 Floyd. From the wings treatment of their BIPOC members to employees at companies including

00:20:58.640 Glossier and Away speaking up against racial discrimination, it seemed the demise of the 0.56

00:21:03.860 white girl boss finally got some just dessert. Man Repeller was one of these. However, after 0.75

00:21:09.200 dissolving the company, Liandra slinked away into the night and created a fashion-focused newsletter

00:21:15.060 featuring her musings and the writing she became beloved for. And just three weeks ago, it was

00:21:20.560 announced that she is partnering with german clothing brand clothes on a capsule collection

00:21:25.560 so things seem to be going okay for leandra at least according to her instagram updates this

00:21:31.360 week however new york-based black fashion designer and host of the cutting room floor podcast

00:21:36.180 rachel amandi released an episode with an interview with the girl boss herself the episode

00:21:42.320 is titled the tanning of america after the book and documentary by steve stout the tanning of

00:21:48.260 America, how hip-hop created a culture that rewrote the rules of the new economy. So the

00:21:53.860 podcast is a one and a half hour conversation with Leandra and it covers a lot from how last

00:21:59.880 summer's events have affected Leandra, what it's like to be publicly shamed, and one of the most

00:22:05.380 controversial takes that Leandra at 31 years of age has just realized how rich she actually is.

00:22:12.320 what are your thoughts on this before we get into the meat of it what an eye-opening episode

00:22:20.960 my goodness Leandra did not portray herself in the best light how did you find this at first I was

00:22:29.400 very interested and invested in the conversation but as it went on it felt like she just kept

00:22:36.400 digging herself a hole and the last half an hour my jaw like actually dropped multiple times like

00:22:43.220 not kidding you cannot believe the self-delusion that comes out of her mouth sometimes and the 0.93

00:22:51.300 fact that she's saying it to a black woman's face I felt really like uncomfortable with

00:22:56.980 yeah we'll play a snippet of the conversation here exploring and always have been like this

00:23:02.620 past summer was like the summer of learning i remember sitting in the car with abie and my kids

00:23:09.360 thinking to myself like i did not grow up poor i like actually grew up rich

00:23:16.220 and did you think you were rich when you were growing up no i thought i was poor that's what

00:23:20.400 i'm saying i and like i looked at abie and i was like abie i don't think i was poor and he's like 0.99

00:23:27.460 what the fuck are you talking about? And I was like, no, no, no. Like, I, 0.98

00:23:32.540 I thought I was poor. Like I didn't have anything growing up, but actually I had everything.

00:23:41.280 And you know what else? I bet my mom wasn't poor in Iran. I think she just thinks it in her head,

00:23:47.900 like how I did. What I found interesting was before I started listening to the episode,

00:23:53.500 I was like oh yeah I know what this is going to be like it's going to be Leandra fiercely

00:23:58.300 apologizing and telling us about everything she's learned that was not it not at all and it's also

00:24:05.880 important to note that Leandra was given three interviews with Rachel so you know this isn't

00:24:12.660 just like one take off the cuff like they were having a private conversation Leandra asked

00:24:18.480 rachel to re-record it another two times and i also remember when you know she was accused of 0.84

00:24:26.920 racial discrimination last year she actually said that she was going to a few like racial

00:24:31.680 injustice classes and everything but it seems she's still very far removed from like

00:24:38.840 not reality but like she just doesn't get it one of the most emotional points i think for me

00:24:47.040 was when the audio engineer Sebastian calls Rachel to tell her that this has been the

00:24:54.600 hardest episode for him to ever work on and we'll play a little clip now the hardest episode for me

00:25:01.160 to work on I really just cannot even wrap my head around what she's even trying to tell me

00:25:08.040 because in my head I'm like do you not hear yourself I mean my main grievance is that yo

00:25:12.940 She's a super privileged woman who still doesn't see it.

00:25:16.320 That's why, I mean, as soon as I listened to the first one,

00:25:19.080 I was just like, no, no, no.

00:25:20.560 I gotta give Rachel a call, right?

00:25:23.080 No. 1.00

00:25:24.300 Like, you can't let this woman just get away with saying 1.00

00:25:28.520 some of the things that she's saying. 0.69

00:25:30.620 Throughout the whole entire episode, it was just like,

00:25:32.480 but what about me?

00:25:33.200 I went through things.

00:25:34.180 I went through things.

00:25:35.060 And then you get to the point to where she goes,

00:25:36.740 I actually never went through anything.

00:25:40.720 My life was great.

00:25:42.940 So very confronting, but I think that those little additions of talking to the people who accused

00:25:50.180 Leandra of the racial discrimination and the call with Sebastian, it sounds like you're listening to

00:25:56.060 a documentary. It's very like well produced and well layered. So if you're into podcasts in general,

00:26:01.780 like we'd definitely recommend it. And if you're listening to this and you might not even know who

00:26:06.560 Leandra is, or you never really read Man Repeller, and you're thinking about like, oh, why is this

00:26:11.940 conversation even relevant um jazz found this great article called what leandra medin cohen

00:26:17.720 doesn't understand it's not about her and that is by langa for pop culture website pop dust it reads

00:26:24.480 the cutting room floor exposed the difference between actually experiencing oppression and

00:26:29.220 marginalization and the perception that you have leandra has yet to grasp the concept and that

00:26:35.380 dissonance was at the core of her empire of empowerment platform which really just masqueraded

00:26:40.960 itself as a celebration of the other while pandering for approval from the mainstream

00:26:45.800 so it's not just about leandra or man repeller it's the culture that sees other as quirky when

00:26:52.300 it's on a white girl but rejects any deviation that goes too far from the hegemony and the

00:26:57.840 companies which claim to embrace the other are usually embracing that hegemonic ideal too

00:27:03.260 not reaching out to embrace the marginalized and oppressed at all very well said and that's

00:27:10.840 what i think this conversation is is like the it's like the bigger picture of the girl boss world and

00:27:17.940 the fashion world and the gossip girls of the world in real life who have always had this power

00:27:23.700 and haven't even they're just so blind to their privilege and no matter how many times you sit

00:27:28.160 down with them three times and say this is what's going on you get publicly shamed you have to take

00:27:33.180 racial reckoning classes and after all the time a year has passed and you still don't even see

00:27:40.580 your privilege I think is like so far gone I just don't think there's anything there's any coming

00:27:47.000 back from that and it's not about cancelling someone but it's just like she has become an 0.86

00:27:52.160 example of this like girl boss hierarchy the goal of like announcing that on a podcast you know is

00:27:59.540 going to be listened to by thousands of people is very brave like there's one there's one thing

00:28:05.540 having your own personal experience and your perception of what your life was and there's

00:28:10.420 another to like announce it after you've been like shamed for being racist to a black woman's

00:28:17.060 face and it's just not very yeah there were the parts where i was like oh my gosh i just think

00:28:24.660 that this story is another example of the privilege fallout that is happening because

00:28:29.920 of the crossroads between the latest black lives matter movement and covid people are getting tired

00:28:36.860 of rich people walking all over them or just not getting it after they've been given chances or

00:28:42.580 benefits of the doubt. And a more local example of this COVID privilege in Australia specifically

00:28:48.720 was, of course, this week when boarders at a prestigious Sydney private Catholic boys school

00:28:54.120 were given the Pfizer vaccine in quote unquote era. Yes, literally they gave 163 boys the vaccine

00:29:04.540 by accident. The Indigenous boys at the school were supposed to be vaccinated, but instead all 1.00

00:29:10.840 of the 163 boys received their first jab, which we all know it's pretty hard to come by for young

00:29:18.500 people at the moment. So while some takes for saying that we should be happy that more people

00:29:22.480 are vaccinated, that's a good thing, right? But you just can't help but wonder why like 163 nurses

00:29:28.580 when vaccinated by error or bus drivers or shopkeepers, you know, there's no chance that

00:29:34.180 they would be vaccinated by error it is once again the private elite sydney well that's

00:29:41.160 generalizing but a private elite boys clubs boys schools that are getting the benefits of our

00:29:48.400 society so relating this back to leandra i think people are more angry about it because we're fed

00:29:54.000 up with the class inequities that covid has brought up and laid bare because leandra was

00:30:00.080 the fashion darling of new york city for a good decade uh it has done the rounds in the fashion

00:30:05.400 world and it resulted in a scathing article in new york magazine style iteration the cut

00:30:10.480 with a title reading upper east sider realizes she's privileged many of the comments under the

00:30:16.880 cut's instagram were all very like making fun of leandra they were old employees being like

00:30:23.720 wall or dead people involved in the fashion world were kind of saying their piece under the comments

00:30:31.180 but then you found on the cuts website that a lot of the comments found once again publicly

00:30:38.200 shaming and taking down another girl boss to be unhelpful did you find that interesting like the

00:30:44.280 difference between some people being really angry about this and others being like why are we kind

00:30:48.660 of still talking about her or this is like a mean article like that people are just being mean

00:30:53.100 It really made me reconsider the reason why I was invested in this. And even though I didn't agree

00:30:59.940 with a lot of the comments, I just found it interesting that I think outside the media

00:31:04.560 and fashion world, like one, a lot of people just don't care. They were like, why are we giving time

00:31:09.600 to a woman like this? But they also asked the question, like, why are we even talking about

00:31:15.700 this? Someone said that she's like, she's low hanging fruit, just peeking on her for, for,

00:31:21.560 I guess entertainment's sake and that really made me think about the fact that to be honest

00:31:29.420 like I saw people screenshot this article put it on the Instagram story and it was like oh my god

00:31:35.220 tea or like listening to this and and for myself and for many others this was just piping hot tea

00:31:42.400 it was pure entertainment for me and I know that sounds terrible because of all the heartache and

00:31:48.100 pain and actual trauma that her former employees went through. But listening to this for me was

00:31:54.320 just pure entertainment. Like sure, I learned some stuff, but I was consuming this through a

00:31:59.120 voyeuristic, almost schadenfreudic lens. So it begs the question, like, is this doing any good?

00:32:06.000 Are these interviews and these think pieces and articles actually changing the way that we like

00:32:12.000 consume culture or look at companies? Because by shunning these celebrities, I don't think we're

00:32:17.820 really making change I would kind of label this as just woke celebrity gossip that's such a good

00:32:25.520 way to put it woke celebrity gossip like it's still at the end of day drama tea gossip but

00:32:33.000 they're talking about bigger issues so maybe that makes it more we can like dissect it a bit more

00:32:39.720 and like spur conversations on like a tree you know we keep building off them like what we do

00:32:45.820 on this podcast yeah i did see some takes that were saying that this podcast was veering into

00:32:52.240 anti-semitic tropes in the end um the host calls leandra a jewish american princess which is you

00:32:58.700 know a stereotype of the rich jewish person so you know there are merits in both sides some people

00:33:07.140 said this might shouldn't have even gone to air really but like i kind of like that we're kind of

00:33:14.140 on the fence about this like we don't really know how to feel so with our takes and consuming this

00:33:24.460 week's fashion world tea and gossip I think it has resulted in many comments and conversations

00:33:32.220 I also don't think this is the end of men repeller employees speaking out which is very interesting

00:33:38.180 one of man repeller's former employees was replying to comments on instagram and said

00:33:45.540 just want to follow up here and say if everyone really thinks that what was said on this podcast

00:33:50.060 is even a glimmer of the worst that's been said by the woman in question then you're all sorely

00:33:54.820 mistaken for those saying why are we taking up space with this conversation please realize that

00:34:00.100 this language in the public sphere it validates the very real lived i'll say trauma of the employees

00:34:06.880 especially that of the women of color who experienced the worst from this company

00:34:11.600 we all live in fear of the repercussions or retribution that could be faced by telling

00:34:16.340 our stories and even me typing this feels like a risk but you need to know this is the tip of

00:34:22.220 the iceberg i do think more is going to come out and in i think liandra is back in the deep end

00:34:29.340 once more after kind of just you know after a year getting out um this time the whole feels 0.72

00:34:36.360 harder to get out of. Well, well, well, time for your first recommendation in about a month. What

00:34:49.520 do you have for us today, Jazz? Staying on the Man Repeller topic, I read a piece by former Man

00:34:55.340 Repeller writer Hayley Narman in her newsletter, Maybe Baby This Week. So it's called What's Up

00:35:02.380 with Instagram and I don't know about you Mags but I think there's been more and more conversations

00:35:07.020 lately about Instagram dying and I think Hayley could honestly write an essay about anything and

00:35:13.100 make me feel something but this was a very interesting look at the social media app it

00:35:19.100 talks about authenticity and the fact that Hayley has stopped sharing her political opinions on her

00:35:23.540 Instagram I will read a little bit out now hopefully everyone's not sick of my voice reading

00:35:29.160 comments this week but instagram more than tiktok is hamstrung by its own goal to reflect our lives

00:35:35.980 and so our response to this collective reckoning around its fraudulence has been to invite more

00:35:41.260 aspects of real life into them more vulnerability more activism more real talk the effect has been

00:35:49.220 surreal crying selfies interspersed with face-tuned ones public diary entries written

00:35:54.560 beneath aesthetic tablescapes, political rants next to tagged outfits, note apps, apologies

00:36:00.880 between party photos, calls for authenticity from faces corporations. We all contain multitudes,

00:36:08.340 contradict ourselves, are constantly evolving, but I don't think the mishmash of intention that's

00:36:13.760 become commonplace in our feeds reflects the human conditions as much as our neuroses.

00:36:19.200 And I think it's made online spaces all the more unbearable and barbarous,

00:36:23.000 because it's not as authentic as it pretends to be we're still performing just more dynamically

00:36:28.800 in some cases sneakily a paradox my goodness the way she writes is just so beautiful i think

00:36:38.000 like that reads like a poem and it's just talking about instagram you know so i'd recommend that

00:36:44.120 i love her monologue about the current state of social media and i guess the contradictions of

00:36:49.780 our posts because I'm not gonna lie when I hear about like oh Instagram is dying I am like I just

00:36:56.180 roll my eyes and I'm kind of sick of these conversations and I think I am kind of in the

00:37:00.960 minority there just because I don't know like I I don't know I think it's fear because of course a

00:37:07.940 lot of my job relies on Instagram but also it's just like I don't know I just get sick of these

00:37:13.740 conversations but I think she's kind of nailed this on the head like I think we all know that

00:37:19.200 Instagram authenticity is fake but just I don't know the way she's laid it out right in front of

00:37:25.140 us is really impactful. And I saw in Sydney on your Instagram that you were reading a lot of books

00:37:31.500 you have a book recommendation for us today? Yes I like that you said a lot of but it was just me

00:37:37.240 posting the same book on my Instagram bloody over and over again but yes I cannot stop singing this

00:37:44.620 book's praises. It is called Crying in H Mart by Michelle Zorna. So this is now one of my favorite

00:37:52.480 books. I would say definitely my top five books. And to introduce it, here's a snippet from Michelle

00:37:58.180 herself. Crying in H Mart is a memoir about grief and Korean cooking. It's about losing my mother to

00:38:08.660 and aggressive GI cancer and how I used Korean cooking to navigate my grief and as an alternative

00:38:19.060 type of therapy. So some of you may know Michelle through her music. She creates music under the

00:38:26.260 pseudonym of Japanese breakfast. You like her music? I love her music and I didn't connect

00:38:31.980 the dots between her book. I didn't realize she was a writer. I just know her from Japanese

00:38:37.400 breakfast so what a talented woman like so talented um she just reads like a writer you're

00:38:43.820 like oh this is her calling like she's so great at it so I can't believe that you know music is her

00:38:49.440 number one thing still but anyway guys I love this book so much like it's so special so this

00:38:57.160 is a breathtaking powerfully intimate and raw memoir that searingly lifts the lid on grief and

00:39:03.000 identity. Through the lens of a mixed-race Korean woman, Michelle is just so honest about the nuances

00:39:08.860 of Asian family dynamics. I especially loved the theme of food that pulls the entire book together.

00:39:16.800 It felt so visceral and tangible. It made a lot of sense to have a large chunk of this memoir

00:39:22.080 focused around cooking and food, in my opinion, because it's a language in and of itself in many

00:39:26.760 Asian cultures. I was like non-stop, okay, I call it non-stop crying without tears, but you know

00:39:32.280 when you're like like like that soul is like oh my god yeah my soul was crying throughout this

00:39:38.060 um it's just such a special book so especially those from like I don't know how universal the

00:39:46.460 themes are I'm not even I'm not Korean myself yeah I resonated really a lot with this um I would

00:39:52.080 just I would just really recommend this potentially um if someone is grieving as well I think this

00:39:57.800 could be um like a very therapeutic read i can't speak for that myself but i have read a lot of

00:40:03.840 reviews that say that wow i really want to read it now especially japanese breakfast the album is

00:40:09.600 like all i'm listening to at the moment also and i find her songs as well like they're such a story

00:40:15.980 to them and you can really get into like the characters and you're listening to a story not

00:40:21.640 just like a pop song about you know pop song about nothing you know what i mean um so yeah

00:40:27.740 would definitely love to read that soon so that's it for our first episode back season three it's so

00:40:36.180 nice to chat with you mags in this you know environment with a microphone in front of us

00:40:42.640 and i'm so glad to be sharing thoughts and we want to hear more from you guys as well like

00:40:48.660 we love when you dm us with your thoughts and like when you share what you want to hear

00:40:53.040 and comment on our Instagram.

00:40:56.320 Everything, we love interacting.

00:40:57.980 So please, you know, please talk to us.

00:41:01.320 God, we're so lonely.

00:41:03.120 We're so desperate.

00:41:04.880 No, this has been so lovely.

00:41:06.580 We hope that you've enjoyed this chat

00:41:08.360 as much as we've loved having it.

00:41:10.840 We will be back next Tuesday,

00:41:13.880 sending you all a lot of love.

00:41:16.760 Bye-bye.

00:41:17.840 Bye.

Culture Club - July 12, 2021

Gaslight, Gatekeep, Girlboss

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