Culture Club - It's Giving Us Tumblr Vibes

00:00:00.000 Olivia Rodrigo is selling dodgy fan merch, is TikTok the new Tumblr, and should we be

00:00:12.640 having kids in a climate crisis?

00:00:14.900 We're Maggie and Jasmine, and you are listening to Culture Club, our weekly chat about pop

00:00:20.640 culture, current affairs, the internet, and our lives.

00:00:24.100 we acknowledge that the Wurundjeri and Boonwurrung people are the traditional custodians of the

00:00:33.740 land upon which we live work and create this podcast we would like to pay our respects to

00:00:39.560 elders past present and emerging always was always will be aboriginal land

00:00:46.400 hello hello i feel like we've barely spoken this week okay what have you been up to we had a games

00:00:59.340 night with our friends that's quite a lot yeah but like we were in a group setting you know not

00:01:05.520 one-on-one with my friends in front of us oh yeah so sorry yeah i was just gonna say one-on-one with

00:01:10.380 our listeners all or tuning in as well very private very intimate so what have you been doing

00:01:18.560 um yeah much of the same oh actually um earlier this week I totally had such a teen phase of

00:01:27.420 mine where I just went like hardcore into playing piano a little bit of playing guitar and just like

00:01:32.520 learning Billie Eilish's new album songs and like singing super loudly um like my my parents and

00:01:39.120 family like roasting me for like just hardcore belting it out in the shower and whatever

00:01:43.600 I liked your Instagram story about like feeling like a sim because the only thing we'd see on

00:01:48.660 your stories was you just like doing all these different skills like getting your bar up above

00:01:52.720 your head that's what I feel like and even when I'm stuffing up on like the guitar and stuff I'm

00:01:57.460 like I just imagine that like really awkward sim movements where it's like super exaggerated I'm

00:02:02.240 like yeah it feels and you had a self-care day yesterday what did you do yeah so it was an

00:02:08.780 accidental self-care day um I don't know do you know how I see people do this all the time on 0.78

00:02:15.300 social media say that they have a mental health day and I'm like oh that's so good like good for

00:02:19.220 you but then it's just like it never really clicked in my head properly and I just felt so

00:02:25.980 bad for taking one um even though I decided halfway through the day I don't know because

00:02:31.160 I was like I had things to do and things to like tick off my to-do list and jobs to do

00:02:35.480 and just nothing was going to plan and I was just like beating myself up about it so I tried to let

00:02:41.420 it go but I still felt super weird so it was like half a good day I took almost three naps

00:02:47.880 whoa like really long ones as well oh my god that's amazing how can you physically do that

00:02:53.860 like honestly and I had like a long sleep afterwards last night so oh you obviously

00:03:00.840 needed it yeah but i think like there's always something you could do which is what i've learned

00:03:07.820 like it's true there's always some admin or job or cleaning or something that needs to be done

00:03:13.800 but you just have to decide like what's more important and then do that instead especially

00:03:18.560 these days like it's so stressful out there so i know yeah exactly but tell me about your week

00:03:26.300 what did you get up to? I had a very I had a fun week this week actually I got to host

00:03:32.720 a panel for the cool career and chat with Ginny Jones from Ginny's Girl Gang and Hayley Worley

00:03:41.340 from the Sheet Society founders of both those companies and yeah we had like a virtual panel

00:03:47.680 and chatted all things business and marketing and it was just so much fun and it was work but it

00:03:53.780 didn't feel like work which is like when freelance and journalism and media stuff is good it can be

00:04:02.900 so much fun and so I had one of those weeks which was good because you know there's also the flip

00:04:08.300 side of everything. That sounds so nice do you have any takeaway bits of advice from either of

00:04:14.920 the interviewees that you can pass on to us? Both of them had so much advice and wisdom

00:04:22.240 but I would say the one highlight well there were so many highlights one highlight was

00:04:30.260 Hayley talking about how um she really wanted to start this sheet society and like take it full

00:04:39.180 time and at first her husband was like no you need to pay the bills like you've got to keep

00:04:44.780 your job but she just believed in herself and she built it into this like multi-million dollar

00:04:49.820 company which obviously isn't going to be every business but like the way she believed in herself

00:04:55.300 and just put everything on the line in a way to achieve her dreams I think was like a big wow

00:05:04.680 that's amazing moment yeah very inspiring oh my goodness multi-millionaire or business you know

00:05:11.520 yeah and she said that she's only taking like an average salary from it and she just puts everything

00:05:16.760 back into it because it's only a few years old so and their sheets are amazing this is not an

00:05:21.440 and not spawn con but I have a pair and they're so soft and pink tie-dye um I love them so yeah

00:05:30.020 that was fun if you want to watch it I think it's on the cool careers website if you are interested

00:05:35.300 nice nice um I'll be getting a little bit more of my like semi-culture club fix from that

00:05:41.080 listening to you speak but what about this weekend what have you been up to it's been such nice

00:05:47.140 weather in Melbourne this weekend it's honestly given me life like I feel so good um so yesterday

00:05:54.380 I went for a long walk with our friend Julia she's within my 5k radius and we walked to Richmond and

00:06:01.880 we got bagels and we ate them in the park and then we kept walking we're walking like the whole time

00:06:07.020 exercising um just having like deep chats and that was really nice and then I did some clay

00:06:13.920 in the backyard my mom bought me this like clay kit uh when the lockdown first happened a few

00:06:20.560 weeks ago and so I finally got into that and I made like a little mug and a dish are you going

00:06:25.260 to commodify that are we going to sell it as a side hustle jazz that's also what we're talking

00:06:29.800 about on the panel um about how we've like commodified everything no I'm trying to not

00:06:35.720 I'm very I was tempted but I'm like no I'll just make them for my friends or yeah it's like the

00:06:41.860 knitting thing we were talking about last week lots of hobbies I want to see these mugs when

00:06:46.280 you're finished yeah I have to get them like what's it called glazed and set or whatever

00:06:53.020 kiln yeah that's it I have to actually take them to a proper place to get them heated or whatever

00:06:59.040 so I have to do that when lockdown's over and then this morning I cycled to the beach again

00:07:05.240 in my five kilometer radius not breaking any rules and um jumped in the sea and it was freezing but

00:07:12.220 I felt so alive and it was such a beautiful day so I feel like you've got a really I don't know

00:07:18.880 about you but now when I have good days I really let myself just feel good about it and just like

00:07:26.240 try to hold on to that feeling for a long as long as I can because at the moment the bad is that

00:07:31.340 weighing the good with everything that's going on so you know when you you've got to feel happy

00:07:35.260 when you have those happy days oh that makes me so happy very main character-esque and I think

00:07:42.340 that's so right about like moments that make you feel alive and holding on to them when you can

00:07:46.700 because a lot of that came from like you know non-lockdown things and very much missing oh my

00:07:53.100 god why do I feel emotional from you saying that because I'm just missing like concerts and hanging

00:07:57.560 out with friends and all those things but you're right little things are also good um i will also

00:08:04.440 be getting vax this week you've fully been vax haven't you now oh no your second dose how did

00:08:10.660 i forget that that was part of my week oh my god yes i got my first dose on wednesday and i had

00:08:18.320 the only side effect i had was a little bit of a sore arm for like 36 hours i just like couldn't

00:08:25.400 really like put above my head but what really do you do um so I felt great apparently the second

00:08:35.300 one is worse so I'm like mentally preparing for that in a few weeks but it was just such a relief

00:08:40.800 it was so emotional and I just couldn't stop thanking the nurse as well I was like thank you

00:08:47.100 for everything you guys do like I just feel so lucky and I just think science is so amazing and

00:08:53.260 it's such a privilege to have at the moment especially in australia i just don't take that

00:08:57.940 for granted so yes when are you getting yours oh yeah i'm very thankful as well and i'm getting it

00:09:03.740 on tuesday afternoon um i'm very excited very very very excited to get it done um i know people have

00:09:11.840 such varying side effects from nothing to quite a lot and just knowing my little weak body i'm

00:09:17.420 gonna be hit with something i'm gonna be out of it but you know you napped three times and you

00:09:23.080 were healthy yesterday so what are you gonna be like six times whoa well manifest it um but no

00:09:32.000 obviously that doesn't matter and i'm very thankful for whatever side effect i get honestly but

00:09:37.420 look at us half vaxxed babies in a week or whatever so keen keen keen hot girls boys and

00:09:44.600 get faxed. You heard it here first. 2021's pop princess Olivia Rodrigo has come under fire for

00:09:57.780 her brutal sour merch. The collection of clothing and accessories didn't turn out as advertised for 1.00

00:10:04.380 some fans. After two to three months of waiting for merch to arrive, the results were less than

00:10:10.060 promised one fan's beaded bracelet that's supposed to read sour read sir another fan received what

00:10:17.560 they said they thought would be a crop top but it arrived as a long almost dress length top

00:10:23.500 there were pictures of longer higher sweatshorts that was supposed to be mid thigh length that

00:10:29.760 turned up as short shorts yeah you know those like booty shorts that you would wear like back

00:10:35.000 in the day like they made out of like sweatshorts yeah the little yeah booty shorts right yeah

00:10:42.280 yeah and they that's what um arrived at the house but what was advertised were these like

00:10:47.280 what i meant by like high-waisted longer like mid-thigh sweatshorts that are like quite cute 0.86

00:10:53.040 i'm just like that's a big difference god there were other things like color so she's got a few

00:10:59.200 lavender colored things in the collection and on her they were very like very pale pastel lavender

00:11:04.860 but on the fans they're like quite strong almost like highlightery purple and you know people were

00:11:12.360 saying that the quality wasn't good it was thinner than expected all this all this sort of stuff

00:11:17.380 which is quite unfortunate for our princess Olivia our princess all hail Olivia yeah I

00:11:26.000 I actually don't buy much merch I'm literally wearing you're wearing the only piece of merch

00:11:31.380 that I own well one of them I maybe own five pieces of merch that's I'm wearing a 1975 jumper

00:11:37.840 from 2014 it's literally basically vintage now and it's lasted so well like the quality is quite good

00:11:45.680 but I do find that a lot of celebrity merch is really bad quality and it's so annoying because

00:11:52.640 it's so expensive so expensive um it's funny because I don't think I've got any official

00:11:59.540 merch either i have a harry styles tee that flex mommy made um from flex factory store

00:12:05.400 and my first concert ever was five seconds of summer and um the girl i went with she got us

00:12:13.540 like kmart gray uh sweatshirts this was probably when i was like 11 or 12 and then she like drew

00:12:19.400 each member in like permanent marker and i still own that and i wear it as pajamas like i literally

00:12:24.760 wear that like every couple weeks so that's cute that's my match yes that olivia rodrigo thing

00:12:31.560 reminds me of last year when taylor swift released folklore and everyone was talking about the

00:12:37.060 cardigan of course that was one of the singles off the album and i was so so tempted i was going

00:12:42.500 through such a crap time well it was anyway going through such a crap time and i was like oh to have

00:12:49.300 like a cozy cardigan in winter and it's tail swift and it's like such like a moment in time 0.73

00:12:54.040 the album coming out like you know the middle of 2020 but I'm so glad that I did some research and

00:13:01.260 didn't just get swept up in it because like the shipping you know you've got to convert it from

00:13:05.600 US dollars including shipping from around the world and then I looked at it and it was 100%

00:13:11.580 acrylic so it's like basically just a plastic cardigan and it just annoys me because it's like

00:13:17.980 the qualities i mean i'm sure they're mass producing it but it's so expensive for like 0.87

00:13:24.360 such crap which is what this olivia rodrigo thing is showing as well yeah luckily her like the

00:13:30.420 company that was making all this merch um was super like apologetic and any fan who like contacted

00:13:37.540 them got like a full refund and and stuff but yeah it's just a bummer that this happened i i feel and

00:13:45.080 especially because all these fans were so excited about it.

00:13:48.420 But it's, you know, it's still fast fashion.

00:13:51.640 And I think maybe there's a bit more outrage over this

00:13:55.920 because Olivia's marketing team have been so smart

00:13:59.460 and made her seem like one of us, like quite normal, quite accessible.

00:14:04.100 But I think this is a good reminder that there are machines of people

00:14:07.640 and companies behind artists.

00:14:09.460 And at the end of the day, they are just trying to make money off of us,

00:14:13.440 no matter if you think you're like repping your bff olivia like you're still contributing to

00:14:20.640 this like record label machine which is fine i think if it brings you joy

00:14:25.920 but i think it's a good reminder yeah it's not some cute quirky small business

00:14:31.400 it's lining the pockets of big corporations and sometimes that doesn't pay off

00:14:37.580 so as some listeners will know you've just started at refinery 29 full-time working gal

00:14:49.600 and you've already posted some amazing pieces but one that stood out to me which i think deserves to

00:14:55.500 be read out loud on culture club was your piece am i queer enough to call myself bi how did it

00:15:02.660 feel writing this and putting it out into the world ah thanks jazz um both freeing and very

00:15:13.620 weird i want to say because some listeners might know that back in february we released an episode

00:15:19.940 where we were talking about this and we both had a very unexpected and impromptu heart to heart

00:15:25.800 about our sexuality um the episode's like called something like why gen z is coming out without

00:15:32.280 labels which is ironic because I'm kind of coming out with a label now but I found that that's what's

00:15:37.640 working for me um and yeah it's been like a year in the making and I think it was something that

00:15:43.220 was bubbling away in my head for quite a while like it was something I needed to put pen to paper

00:15:47.740 because I kept it kept coming to me and I think as writers we write out a lot of our emotions in

00:15:53.020 our life and it helps us like analyze ourself or kind of understand ourself in the world around us

00:15:59.460 so like I like it did not take me long I just had it in me and I was like and then it's such

00:16:06.440 a good feeling when that happens it's the best it's the best and I feel really proud of putting

00:16:12.420 it out there um and it's been really nice to see that so many people have had the similar experience

00:16:18.460 like not unique at all and um that's quite validating as well yeah can you read some out

00:16:26.500 for us? Yeah, sure. I can count on one hand the number of times I've simply said I'm bisexual.

00:16:35.040 It always sounds like an apology in my mouth. I navigate my sexuality like it's a disappointment 0.99

00:16:40.640 that needs softening. I think I might not be straight. I don't know, but I might maybe be bi.

00:16:47.760 When I say bi aloud, it's accompanied by air quotes and a grimace. I remember sitting alone

00:16:54.020 in my room at night when the realization that I was queer or not straight as that was as comfortable

00:17:00.100 as I got with the label hit me. More than anything, I was furious with myself. How dare I keep something

00:17:06.800 like this from me? How dare I not know this about myself? Like the obnoxious Gen Z I am,

00:17:13.100 I hold a naively confident understanding of myself and my identity. Grappling with this plot twist

00:17:19.840 made me rethink every other preconceived notion I had about myself. I didn't have the same

00:17:26.020 realization that follows many queer people's coming out moments. You hear it time and time 0.88

00:17:31.160 again. Oh, I was totally in love with my best friend. Oh, I had a crush on my childhood neighbor.

00:17:38.080 The reflections that make things make sense and click into place. Instead of my aha moment,

00:17:43.580 i felt more confused than ever my sexuality epiphany raised more questions than it answered

00:17:50.320 beautiful oh my gosh you've obviously have such a way with words and we'll link it in the show

00:17:57.980 notes that's also on maggie's instagram if you want to read the whole thing which i definitely

00:18:02.180 recommend and i'm so proud of you thank you

00:18:06.180 you hear it all the time remarks of how wildly specific is tiktok's algorithm or it's scary how

00:18:20.920 well tiktok knows me we don't really question it do we we are a generation that's grown up with

00:18:26.980 social media and studies have also shown that jen said don't really care about having our data used

00:18:33.060 by corporations it's kind of embarrassing so i like i kind of feel embarrassed but there was

00:18:39.300 this study in 2019 that found that 32 percent of gen z respondents said that they're not concerned

00:18:47.160 that companies will use their personal online data in a way that could harm them and also 38

00:18:54.420 percent of the respondents said that they actually prefer online ads that target their personal

00:18:59.980 preferences how do you feel i agree with the second part jazz we're gonna get advertised to

00:19:08.100 anyway i saw the most cooked video the other day i think it was on tiktok or somewhere in

00:19:16.940 an ocean somewhere like i don't know the mediterranean and there was this boat going 0.64

00:19:22.500 past with an ad for fucking boohoo.com you're in the middle of the ocean you're swimming blue skies 0.87

00:19:28.320 it's beautiful you're in nature and this boat drives past with boohoo.com on like a big tv 0.99

00:19:33.980 screen on a boat like we're going to get advertised to all that we do get advertised to all the time

00:19:40.180 especially in cities like you walk past so many ads so if i'm gonna have to see them i'd rather

00:19:44.960 see things that will help me in my life or make my life more fun or make me feel more inspired or

00:19:53.200 whatever so yeah i agree with the second part lol did you see that elon musk is launching a satellite

00:19:59.500 that will let people advertise on a billboard in space that makes me feel sick i genuinely thought

00:20:06.560 that was like a bituda advocate headline or something so i had to check i'm like oh no that's

00:20:10.560 real i don't even like click on them anymore because i just like it actually makes my blood

00:20:14.500 pressure rise thinking about it no exactly but no i disagree i don't want personalized ads um

00:20:21.960 i don't like the feeling of being spied on like i know i am being spied on but just like do it

00:20:28.120 discreetly please like don't tell me i saw a tiktok that was like i love it when like your

00:20:33.660 personalized ads are way off and you're like haha but interesting to know so recently the wall

00:20:44.280 street journal has released a full investigation spanning a video podcast and article you might

00:20:49.720 have heard of it they created over 100 automated tiktok accounts which are essentially bots to

00:20:56.180 watch hundreds and thousands of videos on the app they found that watch time was the only factor

00:21:01.740 that tiktok needed to figure you out yeah i found that so interesting because tiktok have said in

00:21:08.600 statements that it's a mixture of who you follow who you share things to like what you like on

00:21:13.800 tiktok that really kind of make the algorithm what it is but the wall street journal found that

00:21:19.900 it's only literally like what you linger on and what videos you watch that really um make the

00:21:25.800 algorithm what it is and i think that's the difference between like instagram facebook

00:21:31.140 versus tiktok is like it's so much smarter it's like insanely smarter which is quite scary

00:21:38.520 Mm-hmm. One interesting account that was created was Kentucky96, who they programmed to be

00:21:46.420 interested in videos about sadness and depression. Obviously, they didn't like put it in the bio,

00:21:52.760 like depressed and sad. The way that that was programmed was just watching and lingering on

00:21:58.140 videos to do with these things. And it wasn't long before Kentucky96's feed was basically

00:22:05.020 flooded with depressive content. It was really scary. 93% of the videos shown at the account

00:22:12.080 were about sadness or depression by a certain point. The Wall Street Journal also found that

00:22:18.260 the fewer views a video has, the less it's moderated, which means dangerous content can

00:22:23.340 slip through the cracks. How do you feel about all this? Not surprised. And I think a lot of

00:22:31.220 tiktok users won't be surprised by this there's just a ridiculous amount of content that's on

00:22:37.400 the platforms like how can it be moderated and if they want you to stay on the app it makes sense

00:22:42.940 to show you similar content that you're watching already but yeah how do you feel yeah also not

00:22:48.880 surprised but i found my algorithms been all over the shop lately and i've actually been pressing

00:22:53.860 not interested i'm training my algorithm i know i live in an echo chamber i unfollow a lot of

00:23:01.320 people if i don't like their content even on instagram even like old school friends whatever

00:23:05.260 people like oh but you should see an array of opinions and like you know whatever but i'm like

00:23:09.780 no this i go on social media for fun to see what my friends are up to or for like inspiration i

00:23:15.860 don't want to see everyone else's opinions so i've been pressing not interested a lot

00:23:20.200 and I've also been going on my following you know there's following all for you I'm going on my

00:23:25.700 following page because I have chosen to follow these people so the I like that content so much

00:23:30.760 more I used to barely ever go on that and now I go on it a lot more because the for you page is

00:23:36.520 just like so chaotic that my brain actually can't take it anymore that's very smart look at you

00:23:41.460 taking control of the for you page that is like you know commonly known as this untamable beast

00:23:47.220 but you've actually found a way around it so i feel like not many people are having that

00:23:52.400 conversation about how you can have some sort of control over tiktok yeah but like i hate for

00:24:00.880 example i think i've spoken about this before i hate asmr with a passion it actually makes me

00:24:05.760 feel nauseous and oh I'll bomb it on the microphone okay I'm so terrible I'm so sorry I won't do

00:24:16.920 anymore and for some reason my algorithm thinks I like it so I always press not interested but

00:24:22.620 it's still come up a couple of times and I every time I'm like not interested like why don't you

00:24:28.260 get about it so sometimes I think we're like oh my god this algorithm is like so smart and other 0.98

00:24:33.020 the times i'm like what the fuck algorithm like i told you i don't like this why are you still 0.96

00:24:36.480 showing it to me 1000 and i also think it's confirmation bias right we see like hundreds 0.97

00:24:42.640 of videos and obviously the ones that are very specific to our lives are the ones that stick in

00:24:46.840 our brain and like you know we pass through so many random ones i had a phase with really weird

00:24:51.960 sport references um and also like sometimes like sexist or like really problematic videos would

00:24:57.400 come up and i would just quickly swipe away to show the app i'm not interested but i should do

00:25:02.480 that not interested thing yeah so we'll put a content warning here as this next bit talks

00:25:08.060 about disordered eating which may be triggering for some listeners so please skip ahead if this

00:25:12.540 may be you in wall street journal's video they created about this they dived into how eating

00:25:20.300 disorder content that violated tiktok's terms and conditions would still commonly be approved

00:25:26.060 but this isn't just TikTok specific. There's a study called Thigh Gap but that's spelt really

00:25:33.280 weirdly. Instagram content moderation and lexical variation in pro-eating disorder communities

00:25:40.020 that I found on TikTok by user Professor Casey. So this study looks at how after Instagram banned

00:25:46.920 the words thigh gap people started creating variations of spelling of the term. So for

00:25:52.120 instance that study that i read out it was spelled t-h-u-g-h-g-a-double-p right and really

00:26:01.440 terrifyingly what they found was that the deeper the lexical variations were so how wrongly spelt

00:26:08.240 the words were the more harmful the content was in these niche communities so scary and just

00:26:16.100 this conversation has just been happening for so long and like people keep trying to outsmart that

00:26:21.440 in the same way that i'm like oh i'm tricking algorithm people also do that in negative ways of

00:26:25.900 like still finding ways to share dangerous content um a lot of people are rightfully

00:26:34.780 critiquing our experience in the early 2010s on tumblr where thin smoke content was rife

00:26:42.260 never forget never forget those like faded photographs or those girls with like buns 0.96

00:26:50.280 messy buns and gray sweaters I have seen so many videos lately comparing tumblr discourse so 0.98

00:26:57.680 reminding me of all the thigh gap thinspo pro-anna stuff to tiktok discourse which is quite funny

00:27:05.900 because I was on like peak tumblr which is considered to be 2010 to 14 and now seeing the

00:27:13.620 exact same conversations happening with people like five to ten years younger talking about like

00:27:19.880 sexuality theories or whatever it may be i think it shows that even if the app changes the technology

00:27:27.040 changes like at the end of the day we're still humans trying to figure our stuff out and like

00:27:32.580 using these spaces to have conversations very true i even think this applies to conversations

00:27:38.620 maybe our parents had or um teenagers experience growing up like decades ago like we think we're

00:27:44.940 so unique each generation you know all the previous generation older than us it's always

00:27:49.700 like oh my god like the new generation is so tainted or like they're terrible but you know

00:27:54.220 what goes around comes around but yes tell me more about this article

00:27:58.300 wait did you even mention i didn't mention an article but

00:28:01.320 you're a mind reader i am about to read for an article so charlie clement wrote a piece for vice

00:28:12.460 called TikTok's LGBTQ plus discourse is just a rerun of Tumblr.

00:28:18.180 Why does this duplicated discourse occur?

00:28:21.080 Social media platforms have long been the place where subcultures and marginalized people have

00:28:25.380 flourished, where those who feel isolated in the offline context can meet lack-minded people,

00:28:30.860 Zoe Glatt, a PhD researcher at London School of Economics, told Motherboard.

00:28:36.120 It used to be that LGBTQ plus communities existed in small pockets of the internet,

00:28:41.500 on Tumblr and YouTube, she continued. But in recent years, shifting attitudes towards gender

00:28:47.280 and sexuality have meant that LGBTQ plus concerns and discourses have become much more part of the

00:28:53.320 mainstream. The writer continues, six years on from when I first experienced these online

00:28:59.220 arguments, the repetition may well come from newer generations growing up and experiencing

00:29:04.900 the internet in a society which is theoretically more liberal and accepting. TikTok has primarily

00:29:11.400 been a place for younger generations to congregate and interact much like tumblr was for an older

00:29:17.420 generation and so it generated lots of conversations that ordinarily wouldn't be seen on other

00:29:23.100 platforms chris stokel walker author of upcoming book tiktok boom told motherboard marginalized

00:29:30.480 communities have said that it's good to see themselves represented there and to be able to

00:29:35.940 take part in the discourses online i feel like we talk about tiktok so much on this podcast

00:29:42.740 we're always referencing it but i do think especially with all the covid stuff going on

00:29:49.860 it is such a place of information and subcultures and entertainment everyone's stuck at home like

00:29:57.060 i think that tiktok right now and the internet well obviously the internet but tiktok and social

00:30:02.540 media apps are more important to talk about than like tv newspapers like older forms of media like

00:30:10.680 i think i think we should study them and talk about them because it's very important very very

00:30:19.000 much so especially about this subculture talk that we're having now like in tumblr days you

00:30:24.400 could be like yeah like the grunge community or the whatever community now it's like i could find

00:30:29.660 a community of like-minded Pisces with stomach issues who live at home in Melbourne. I could

00:30:36.100 find a whole community of people like me, you know? So it's very scary and there's more subcultures

00:30:42.060 than ever. We only just spoke about eco-anxiety two weeks ago, but we should have held our horses

00:30:54.660 because this week the eco-anxiety has been off the charts.

00:30:59.480 The UN released its intergovernmental panel on climate change this week

00:31:02.960 with the United Nations Secretary-General calling it a code red for humanity.

00:31:07.860 That sentence alone is enough to switch off the news and turn on cottagecore sims,

00:31:12.320 but some interesting conversations have come out of the doom.

00:31:16.160 If you haven't read about it yet, basically some of the smartest scientists in the world

00:31:19.860 stated that governments have 10 years to get their shit together,

00:31:23.000 otherwise the climate will warm up by 1.5 degrees celsius resulting in catastrophic climate 0.96

00:31:28.620 disaster this is nothing new for gen z's and millennials our whole lives have been tinged 0.88

00:31:35.400 with existential threat for our planet we studied our gauze and inconvenient truth in geography class 0.98

00:31:40.860 and were told to reduce reuse recycle before we could write however this week shit feels much 0.97

00:31:47.000 more dire i'll tell you something jazz tell me like obviously this report went bonkers on the 0.71

00:31:55.560 internet i didn't actually click on it i didn't actually know that they said that until you read

00:32:00.480 that out how have you missed that i'm going through the wait i think my brain like chose

00:32:08.040 not to see it so i i saw this report everywhere right and i'm pretty sure i probably read headlines

00:32:12.700 with this information but I just blanked out so you know that like when a lockdown is announced

00:32:17.880 it doesn't hit me until like at least 24 hours later like I'm literally unfazed this was the

00:32:23.040 same I was like oh I don't want to I don't want to I don't want to hear about this because we know

00:32:27.500 that it's bad but I just didn't need that and now I feel sick yeah sorry sorry to be the bearer of

00:32:34.300 like existential catastrophic news yeah but wow this week has been a lot it's been terrible

00:32:43.600 switching on the news and seeing all these horrific natural disasters ripping through

00:32:49.440 our planet yeah i know what you mean by trying to or not having the mental capacity to take it in

00:32:57.540 because like we're already dealing with so much crap right now and i know that's just like another

00:33:02.280 thing piling on top um but yeah it's pretty full-on and it's also kind of a positive reason

00:33:09.540 why I haven't clicked on it's because I don't want to be so disheartened by it all like I know my

00:33:15.260 like my partner was becoming like really like kind of like hedonistic about it he's like oh

00:33:20.840 maybe I'll just start eating meat again or whatever and I'm just like I still want to hold

00:33:25.380 onto that hope and whatnot. But anyway, let's get back to this report. So with scientists explaining

00:33:33.300 that climate disaster is impending and COVID making it impossible to make plans, it's hard

00:33:39.460 to even picture what the future may look like. While many conversations online are around not

00:33:45.080 reproducing and how irresponsible it is to bring kids in today's world, for those who had envisioned

00:33:51.280 a family it's a hard pill to swallow do you want kids jazz I think I do sometimes I'm like

00:34:00.680 I have that thing of like no well one the environment two they're expensive three

00:34:06.220 blah blah then I just think like I have such a beautiful family and some of my best memories

00:34:12.080 are obviously with my extended family and so then I do think that when that generation leaves

00:34:18.280 then what will I have you know like I have friends so I think I do want kids but I also

00:34:24.940 have also have tried to shove it down because of the environment what about you yeah I've like

00:34:32.380 always kind of wanted kids but not in like a really like this is my life's purpose way I've

00:34:38.840 just been like oh yeah like I like hope that I'll have kids one day because um I can definitely see

00:34:44.660 myself with a family like that but also because I'm quite young I haven't thought about it really

00:34:49.900 um but of course all these talk online of a lot of people choosing not to have kids

00:34:55.920 is swaying me in like all these different directions that I think our parents definitely

00:35:00.580 didn't have to think of at all so it's very weird and interesting to see these conversations surface

00:35:09.020 yeah sometimes I actually feel guilty for wanting a family because so much of the discourse is like

00:35:14.520 having kids is immoral and irresponsible and selfish like how could you be so selfish to

00:35:19.760 want kids but i think like we are humans obviously but like we are also mammals and animals and we do

00:35:27.960 we are biologically hardwired to continue our species like any other animal so when i have

00:35:34.780 those feelings of like oh do i want a family it's hard to grapple with like the modern

00:35:40.500 living of humans versus the biological brain being like I want a baby but I'm in my mid-20s

00:35:48.740 now like I thought when I was younger I was like oh I may have my first kid by 28 29 and now I'm

00:35:55.340 like what um but I do still think I want them and every year like that biological clock is in my

00:36:05.040 which i hate why don't men have that anyway we're going off on a different topic we are and i mean

00:36:12.960 i haven't looked too much into it but i've definitely seen studies kind of debunking in a

00:36:17.320 way that biological clock where it's not you know once you hit 30 or whatever it doesn't go

00:36:22.820 completely down here like i thought you know so it's so there is hope and of course it's still

00:36:28.320 scary and i don't know much about this but yeah i can't imagine that pressure for people especially

00:36:34.620 in their later 20s or early 30s um we have been seeing these conversations on like twitter especially 0.94

00:36:40.500 i think um in recent weeks did you see that discourse on twitter about this woman complaining

00:36:47.800 about yeah okay do you want to talk about it yeah we can bring it up yeah so it was a tweet by

00:36:55.980 a journalist an australian journalist and in it she is basically saying that

00:37:01.000 covid has taken two years off her dating life and she was venting that she had wasted or she

00:37:13.260 had lost two years to find a partner to have kids with and she's in her early to mid 30s

00:37:18.740 and twitter australian twitter went crazy over it i thought it was awful this woman is obviously

00:37:25.600 just venting and so many people were like taking it as like oh two years i missed out on having 0.99

00:37:30.080 sex with like it's not that at all and I think it was actually full of misogyny and

00:37:35.200 I think it's very valid that people who want to have kids have not just the COVID crisis but now

00:37:43.860 also the climate crisis to think about like that's stressful to have lost two years when you're in

00:37:49.500 your 30s that you had planned you know down to a T of like having kids and whatever yeah what did

00:37:56.760 do you think about all that absolutely disgraceful and I think you nailed it by saying it is

00:38:01.980 misogyny I think a lot of people just don't value starting a family in the same way as you know

00:38:07.460 career milestones or whatever it might be they're like like as if like you know that's something

00:38:12.360 small like whatever whereas this is really important to this person um this internet can

00:38:19.680 be a gross place and we know that and I hate that we we don't have any empathy to extend to these

00:38:24.640 people who are obviously everyone's dealing with stuff and cover like every single person is and

00:38:31.020 you we don't need to preface everything with like yes like people are dying everywhere we know that

00:38:36.800 and you can you can you can also be upset about things in your life like that's okay

00:38:43.600 you know I wish I wasn't all that like terrible like guilt around that like I'm not saying that

00:38:49.220 people should complain about like very small minute things all the time online like have 0.93

00:38:55.360 things in perspective but also like yeah that was a very valid concern and she just got ripped to

00:39:01.680 shreds so going back to having kids read the environment there was a study it published last

00:39:09.760 year that said 96.5 percent of both male and female respondents were either very or extremely

00:39:17.400 concerned about the well-being of their hypothetical children in a climate-changed world.

00:39:23.360 Now, I got that statistic from a piece I read this week that I really resonated with, which

00:39:29.480 was by writer Elfie Scott for Pedestrian TV, and it's titled, Climate Change is Making 1.00

00:39:35.560 Young Aussies Rethink Having Kids, But Do Our Leaders Even Give a Shit? 0.97

00:39:40.580 We asked Elfie to kindly read out some of her words in her own voice, so here they are. 0.99

00:39:47.400 The morning after the IPCC report was published, my group chats with friends began flooding

00:39:53.240 with distressed messages about changes to life plans and anxieties about having children

00:39:59.320 if this is the future we'll be forcing them to endure.

00:40:03.060 As women in our late 20s and early 30s, many of us have started to talk about motherhood

00:40:09.500 and the topic of having babies is brought up with fairly frequent excitement.

00:40:14.560 Some were planning it earlier than others.

00:40:16.480 My best friends and I had dreams of raising kids at the same time, a little pact of getting

00:40:22.600 knocked up and bringing up a bunch of mixed-race babies alongside one another. 1.00

00:40:28.580 Over the past year, it's been relatively easy to put climate change on the mental backburner, 1.00

00:40:34.540 so to speak, while we've been overwhelmed with the consequences of the pandemic.

00:40:40.060 Lockdown has given us time to nurture these fantasies of what life could look like beyond

00:40:44.800 lockdown. Shit, if everyone's getting dogs, might as well have a kid, right? I was starting to feel 1.00

00:40:51.940 genuinely prepared to be a parent. This week, that burgeoning enthusiasm is gone. It's collapsed

00:40:59.640 into a stark feeling of grief. The messages from friends were full of distraught, and even reading

00:41:07.240 them now feels physically heartbreaking, like I'm being stabbed in the gut. They read,

00:41:13.040 it's really fucked living in a time when you can't envision the future why would it be fair 1.00

00:41:19.100 to bring babies into this world you can't bring up a kid safely and tell them yep you will die 0.99

00:41:25.520 of old age before anything happens to you another friend simply messaged i cannot believe our

00:41:32.540 futures have been stolen from us there's the argument i've leaned on consistently for a few

00:41:38.680 years, the little glowing beacon that makes me feel like it's all going to be okay. To give up

00:41:45.180 on the idea of children is to give up on hope. It sounds nice, doesn't it? It's a warm consolation

00:41:52.180 for the frenetic mind trying to insulate itself from terror. Children are symbols of hope.

00:41:59.620 Only I'm not sure that they are really. Children aren't symbols, they're children. Sentient

00:42:06.760 feeling things that will experience the same agony as the rest of us if the world fails to

00:42:12.040 come to an agreement that things have to change now. All of this being said, I believe that hope

00:42:19.200 is incredibly important and ultimately active hope, the kind that moves and organizes and

00:42:25.240 innovates and yells about things, is the only thing that's going to scrape humanity back from

00:42:30.560 the brink. So this week, I wonder, do these politicians understand how scared we are for

00:42:37.620 the next generation of Australians? Do they get that young Australians are turning away from

00:42:42.760 their futures and deciding against children because the coming decades look so terrifying? 0.97

00:42:49.280 Do they even care?

00:42:52.940 So impactful. Thoughts, feelings. What are you feeling?

00:42:57.480 so important that she penned this um even what we were talking about before about people not

00:43:04.220 understanding the importance of potentially signing a family right even me maybe like a

00:43:09.800 decade um away from having this experience i fully don't understand it so having so reading this

00:43:17.320 like really helps and really puts things in perspective as well so very powerful

00:43:23.260 i really agree with elfie um when she says that children are beacons of hope or they can be um i

00:43:33.580 was down as i said in the chit chat i was on the beach this morning and i saw lots of children

00:43:38.960 playing and running around it was so nice and lots of pregnant people and i thought that

00:43:43.920 well obviously i think like what's the world going to be like when they're older when they're

00:43:48.220 my age but the world does continue to spin and go around and I think that is hopeful like looking

00:43:56.820 at their little faces I just I do feel more motivated to you know make even bigger changes

00:44:02.660 because it's so much bigger than us which sadly older generations don't seem to care like the 0.93

00:44:06.860 politicians in parliament don't give a flying fuck about us right now um it's so clear and I just 0.94

00:44:13.280 think like they're gonna die in their nursing home in like 40 years and maybe 30 years if 0.98

00:44:21.840 climate change hasn't gotten them there to them then and we're the ones that have to clean up the

00:44:25.940 mess like i don't they don't care and that's that is disheartening but focusing on hope and the

00:44:35.880 future does help rather than focusing on those dinosaurs in the same way that we shared that

00:44:43.240 eco hope tiktok on our stories this week we also want to share a hopeful tiktok around having

00:44:49.260 children because i think that humans are inherently good and hopeful and smart and

00:44:55.640 problem solvers and this tiktok helps as your friends start having kids and you don't it's

00:45:02.940 really easy to start looking at them as bland and having lost their edge. But as you start to think

00:45:09.560 about it, looking out at the world that's on the brink of climate ruin and pandemic and all the

00:45:15.840 other stuff, having kids right now is the most punk thing you can do. It's this brave act of

00:45:23.040 optimism that's saying, no, we are going to survive and evolve, and we're not going to give in to

00:45:30.460 despair and there's something really badass about that so respect to the parents especially this day

00:45:39.220 and age maybe I gotta have kids I don't know it sure is easier hiking without a little baby on

00:45:45.820 my back but a hell of a lot less cute

00:45:48.760 maggie what do you recommend for us this week hello hello we've been recording for an hour

00:46:03.580 um yes i am recommending this disney plus tv show called the mysterious benedict society

00:46:12.400 have you heard about this no i just got a massive craving for eggs benedict though

00:46:18.040 Not my intention. Not where I thought the question would lead to either. But I'm very

00:46:26.360 glad to introduce you today. So this is an American mystery adventure TV show based on

00:46:32.580 a series of children's books, actually. And this series follows four gifted orphans who

00:46:39.280 are recruited by an eccentric benefactor to go on a secret mission. And they're placed

00:46:45.980 undercover at this like boarding school which is like super weird and they must help stop this evil

00:46:53.020 mastermind and his mission so what really got me into this show is the incredible filming oh my god

00:47:02.900 it is so beautiful to watch it's very Wes Anderson like very very very much so and I really can't

00:47:08.600 imagine the budget that they had to make this because there's like six or eight episodes and

00:47:13.840 they're like 50 minutes each so it is like a movie spectacular I've been watching it with

00:47:17.940 my little sister I've got the last episode to go um but yeah it's very beautiful and the vibe is

00:47:24.580 kind of a series of unfortunate events meets Roald Dahl meets Pleasantville the movie um it's a very

00:47:32.760 fun mystery that embarrassingly enough I find quite eerie like actually not quite eerie like

00:47:39.560 very eerie even though it's pg oh my god but um it's super great so while it's great escapism

00:47:48.080 the series is also centered on this thing called um the emergency which is like a global catastrophe

00:47:54.540 where people around the world are struck with anxiety depression and like world is ending doom

00:48:00.060 that is caused by the big evil media which kind of rings true kind of in our society in a little

00:48:07.720 bit of ways like I would slightly agree with the sentiment but I hate like that it's kind of

00:48:13.560 pushing this message especially since it resonates with like anti-vax anti-lockdown rhetoric um

00:48:19.240 surrounding media and fake news but of course because this is a book series um and I'm guessing

00:48:25.440 this was made pre-pandemic I don't think that was um on purpose yeah but every time it comes up I'm

00:48:32.800 like cringing i'm like but um no hopefully this show isn't anti-lockdown

00:48:38.420 that sounds so fun how did i miss this like it sounds so good i was gonna say sounds like a

00:48:49.860 series of unfortunate events which i loved when i was young like love the books love the show

00:48:54.460 um so i'm very intrigued yeah um i think you'll really like this because i know you're re-watching

00:49:00.560 Stranger Things um at the moment and I kind of feel like it's similar vibes um not as intense

00:49:05.880 and stuff but very fun watch so do get on it and to round us off what do you have to recommend to

00:49:14.100 us this week all I've watched this week was Strange Things Gossip Girl and last night I

00:49:20.540 watched Shrek 3 so I struggle to recommend anything fun because we've everyone seen all

00:49:25.840 those already um but something i found interesting was i know we've just spoken about tiktok and i

00:49:33.420 don't really want to talk too much about the c word but i did listen to a very fascinating report

00:49:37.860 by avani davis the host of triple j's hack so it's a report called on tiktok lies and

00:49:44.560 misinformation run wild you can listen to this on their website or on spotify and it's a 30 minute

00:49:50.760 episode on how TikTok is showing users COVID misinformation. So it features chats with experts

00:49:56.260 including Dr. Joshua Roos, who's an extremism researcher, Dr. Tanya Notley, a researcher,

00:50:03.380 and Dr. Brad McKay, a GP and author of fake medicine. And some interesting highlights was

00:50:11.040 Vani also spoke with a man who found himself on the wrong side of TikTok, like what we were

00:50:15.800 mentioning before, where he started receiving COVID conspiracy theories. They explained that

00:50:21.040 TikTok uses facial recognition techniques and determines which political party you're more

00:50:25.460 likely to be interested in by how you look and dress. He thinks it's because he lives in rural

00:50:31.140 Australia and he's a man, a white man with a beard. So they thought that he would be interested

00:50:36.920 in conspiracy theories. And he said he's not a conspiracy theorist and he knew what the algorithm

00:50:42.820 them was doing and that it was wrong, but he explains how easily you could get sucked into it.

00:50:48.320 You also hear a tragic story about a family and the unvaccinated youngest daughter is 21

00:50:54.820 and she's begun to tell her vaccinated family that they're going to die in two years because

00:50:59.800 of the vaccine and keep sharing COVID conspiracy theories to their family chats that she's seen

00:51:05.740 on tiktok so like a bit heavy but they also give some practical tips on how to spot the fake posts

00:51:14.040 and it's just so nice to hear from experts and doctors and we really should be listening to them

00:51:20.700 not everyone is an expert on any on everything which i feel like in this day and age everyone

00:51:24.980 thinks they are um so yeah if you're interested in those topics go listen to that sounds very good

00:51:34.460 and very much links to our previous discussion today so hell yeah go triple j for doing that

00:51:40.680 thank you so much for listening to another episode of culture club if you enjoyed this

00:51:49.840 we would really appreciate it if you could pretty please go and rate and review us on apple podcasts

00:51:55.140 because we were in the charts for like two days and now we're out of the charts and we want to

00:51:59.460 get back in the charts so please help us out yes we will give you digital hugs and a consensual

00:52:07.660 little kiss on the cheek if you like that's also digital so don't come knocking at our doors

00:52:12.840 anyway thank you so much again for listening we've loved having you here

00:52:17.740 and we'll chat to you soon bye

Culture Club - August 16, 2021

It's Giving Us Tumblr Vibes

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