Culture Club - Microtrend Final Boss

00:00:00.000 a micro trends officially over why is under consumption core trending and the rise of the

00:00:13.580 fruity boyfriend i'm maggie zow and i'm jasmine wallace and you're listening to culture club

00:00:18.900 where we chat about pop culture current affairs the internet and our lives

00:00:23.420 we acknowledge that the Wurundjeri Woiwurrung people are the custodians of this land that

00:00:32.920 we are on today we would like to pay our respects to elders past and present we would also like to

00:00:38.600 celebrate the rich history of first nations culture and storytelling that we're continually

00:00:42.840 learning from this always was and always will be aboriginal land

00:00:47.580 so we're recording from home today because it's been a busy week and getting to the studio is 1.00

00:00:56.620 sometimes tricky but I've just made a coffee at home and it is so foul sorry

00:01:03.900 I'm drinking it anyway because I've just made it and like I didn't have time to remake it

00:01:11.220 before we had to jump on and I have truly been spoiled like I am princess treatment when it

00:01:17.340 comes to the coffee machine in our house because it was bought by my family as laurie's birthday

00:01:23.320 present like they joined up to buy it and he is really into it and so every morning it's like one

00:01:29.040 of my favorite rituals every morning we'll like get up and we're both getting ready separately

00:01:32.060 and he will make me a coffee and hand deliver it to me with like a little bit of latte art and i'm

00:01:38.000 like oh just chef's kiss that's part of my day but when i'm at home by myself i have to make it by

00:01:42.980 myself and i feel like such a princess i'm like this isn't the same yes why are we the same jazz

00:01:49.420 i just again another another day in the matrix where we are the same person because truly same

00:01:56.000 and this past week i have been thinking because uh yeah tom's got this incredible coffee machine

00:02:00.880 and he makes me coffee every day i feel like i am the most anti-feminist version of myself because

00:02:05.960 i have not touched the machine i don't know how to use it i i'm so scared and i will learn soon

00:02:12.140 but it's the exact same like i i do not know how to make at least you're doing it at least you're

00:02:16.100 trying i do know how to use it thankfully but clearly i i have a higher rate of misses than

00:02:23.700 he does i think i didn't put enough coffee in the actual thing today but tom's coffee is so good

00:02:28.980 wasn't it like i said to him like on his birthday last year we're at his parents house so it had

00:02:33.040 like it was like a more even more bougie coffee machine than what you have at your house and i

00:02:37.340 was like tom this is better than a five dollar coffee that i would pay for at a cafe and didn't

00:02:42.340 you say like he held on to that for like a good year babe we still talk about it remember that

00:02:48.640 time jazz said that yeah that was the biggest ego boost um it is a major compliment and i also back

00:02:54.600 that he does make a good coffee well we are also buzzing for another reason this morning i think i

00:03:02.580 posted it on culture club pod but that is the billy eilish remix of guests by charlie xcx

00:03:10.060 i'm obsessed oh so good i was watching the music video as it dropped around 8 a.m as soon as you

00:03:16.100 posted it on culture club as a reel and i love how it's like i don't know if you've seen like

00:03:20.880 the full music video but it's like you know like like everyone's kind of like stripped down and

00:03:25.120 dancing dirty and it's like 8 a.m like pre-work and i'm like yeah in my pjs we like well on the

00:03:31.220 tv like it's christmas literally that was me too i must confess though like billy has become

00:03:38.760 really high on my crush list after watching her chicken shop date did you see that i did yeah

00:03:45.420 i love billy i think she was high on my crush list when we after we saw her live like i think

00:03:50.680 like two years ago and like her she has such like magnetism which i think you have to have if you're

00:03:55.720 a pop star of that caliber you have to have an amazing presence and stage presence but she's

00:04:01.600 just the coolest and I love seeing her explore this like queer side of her sexuality that she's

00:04:07.880 only just probably like the last six to 12 months started talking about yeah it's cool the comments

00:04:14.280 in on the YouTube video were all like her lesbian res and I'm like it's and she's 22 now so I feel

00:04:20.980 like it she's getting a bit older where I feel a little bit more appropriate because she's she 0.82

00:04:26.740 is young she is a young girl yeah I always forget how young she is sorry just choking on that

00:04:32.960 terrible coffee the olympics is also on at the moment I feel like that's the only kind of newsy

00:04:40.020 story I've seen on my feed lately I do have to say yes they are my employer but pedestrian tv

00:04:45.840 is killing at the moment in the olympics coverage like everything I'm seeing olympics is from 0.70

00:04:49.380 pedestrian on my feeds so i go to them for the experts we're not going to get into sports ball

00:04:54.440 on culture club um i did watch some the only thing i've watched because we're in australia right so

00:05:01.000 the time zones are all whack like i want to watch the swimming but it's like so early in the morning

00:05:05.900 i know people who get up like set their alarms for like 3 4 a.m to watch it i'm like that is

00:05:11.160 so patriotic i could never yeah i mean what did you watch then oh yeah i was saying i watched um

00:05:17.960 last night on the bbc with laurie we watched sailing so random it was just what was on he

00:05:25.660 was like oh should we watch a bit of the olympics i was like yeah okay um it was hectic it was like

00:05:29.340 intense they were not in paris obviously not sailing in paris they were like i think they

00:05:33.940 were in marseille or something but it was cool i don't know i like i like the olympics for like

00:05:39.380 humanity's sake i think it's like always a bit heartwarming but i'm not a stan you

00:05:44.300 yeah no like I kind of like gearing up to the Olympics I was like yeah maybe this is my year

00:05:51.180 to finally get into it but it's really just blown me by uh speaking of sailing though the

00:05:56.320 kind of only thing I've seen which was like a replay was one of the new uh sports which is

00:06:03.080 kayak frost do you know about this no I haven't heard about this oh strap in girl strap in really

00:06:10.680 quickly it's like a few competitors in like canoe kayak things and they literally get dropped from

00:06:16.060 the air like maybe a meter or two above flowing water like in the river or something and then it

00:06:21.620 looks like ninja warrior where they have to like go around these like poles in the water it's

00:06:26.100 absolutely wild i think australia did really well and it's like a quick race it's like four minutes

00:06:30.560 or something like that wait maybe that's what i was watching there's also a canoe something

00:06:36.940 No, it was a kayak. There was definitely a sail on the boat. It was a sailing boat.

00:06:40.980 Yeah, that's not it. Anyway, that's enough from us about the Olympics. Let's get into it.

00:06:51.820 There's been a conversation happening on TikTok recently that's suggesting the micro trend era

00:06:56.840 that we've come to love to hate is seemingly over, but that doesn't mean that trends are dead.

00:07:02.020 I love this conversation I actually saw it from trend analysis Mandy Lee who we'll be talking

00:07:07.540 about later but I think through this time having this podcast and working in media like do you

00:07:13.880 remember the days and the months and the weeks where we would just be reporting on micro trend

00:07:18.780 after micro trend whatever core was coming into popularity and it feels like it has petered off

00:07:24.880 right yeah we haven't I don't think even in 2024 we've been like let's talk about ballerina core

00:07:30.540 or like whatever cause we used to dissect but as you mentioned just because we're not

00:07:36.040 being so explicit about it anymore doesn't mean it's over right i feel like terminology has just

00:07:41.140 evolved yes i feel like trends are going faster and faster this is not the end of fast fashion

00:07:45.780 as much as we wish it was user anna krivalopova wrote on twitter everyone eats reads and wears

00:07:52.320 the algorithms nowadays the tinned fish fernet mu mu hegel tobacco catholic trend has gotten 10

00:07:59.460 times more annoying than the artessa weed pen oat milk people it sounds like that's another

00:08:05.460 language if you're not like chronically online and i'll admit i didn't know a couple of those words

00:08:11.580 and it does feel a bit judgy but i think there's something in the fact that trends are becoming

00:08:17.700 more like aesthetics they're kind of becoming more holistic which i think is what that tweet

00:08:23.300 is getting at at the core of it we're kind of branching out from just fashion and beauty which

00:08:28.400 is where we traditionally see these trends take place especially on tiktok and as the tweet

00:08:34.300 suggests it is infiltrating every part of our life from lifestyle to wellness and more so as

00:08:41.500 mentioned at the top fashion analysis mandy lee aka old loser in brooklyn also spoke about this

00:08:47.780 this week in response to a tiktok user asking what is the house of sunny dress of the summer

00:08:52.960 she then goes on to explain that micro trends used to be like singular items that you could

00:08:57.920 really pinpoint from specific brands uh that reach peak popularity extremely quickly and obsolescence

00:09:04.720 just as fast so she mentions things like that yeah house of sunny peace a tiktok strawberry dress

00:09:11.240 the cowgirl baby tea those house of sunny pieces just make me feel a bit anxious because they

00:09:18.700 remind me so much of covid lockdown the way i was like looking at buying that strawberry dress

00:09:24.680 in COVID as well and you know unemployed ready to drop like $250 plus shipping from this I think

00:09:32.800 it was an American or French brand because of like how popular it was and now I'm like oh my

00:09:38.340 gosh I'm so glad I didn't spend that money I would never wear that now it was just such a moment in

00:09:42.380 time yeah I'm seeing so many of these prints as well I forgot what people called it do you remember

00:09:48.080 like it's really reflective of our interiors as well so kind of like chicken board but really

00:09:53.700 bright colors and wavy patterns and stuff like that there's a name for it anyway um but I was

00:09:59.400 at the op shop the other day and there's just so much of it and it sucks because um you're so right

00:10:04.580 about how it's its memory is imbued with like lockdowns and COVID yeah like even though like

00:10:11.060 yeah I kind of I like that style and stuff I'm just kind of shuddering at the thought of

00:10:15.840 the time where it became popular 100 yeah it's such yeah like time it's always been like that

00:10:24.380 though i think like we're kind of like oh this sucks because fast fashion but like if you think

00:10:28.620 i reckon you could pinpoint like if you saw shag carpet brown like corduroy furniture you could be

00:10:34.320 like that is from 1975 you know or like at least the mid 70s obviously it's become a lot worse

00:10:41.040 because of like fast homewares and fast fashion i don't think we talk about fast homewares enough

00:10:44.940 we've spoken about it briefly on the podcast before but I think that's such a big conversation

00:10:49.660 that people aren't having at the moment yeah but sidetracking sidetracking but I love a sidetrack

00:10:55.960 because I want to add to the sidetrack as well I was just talking to someone about what you were

00:11:00.760 talking about as well again same person but yeah when we look back at trends from decades like the

00:11:06.420 70s or 90s it's easy to kind of list off things that were trending then but those pieces kind of

00:11:13.980 define the whole decade whereas now we can pinpoint things to like specific months of a year within a

00:11:19.280 decade which is scary true so going back to mandy's video she says that trends and brands are blurring

00:11:26.240 the lines between being those individual items we're just speaking about to being now whole

00:11:30.640 aesthetics and lifestyles let's play a snippet of the video here it's not necessarily about the

00:11:36.560 specific singular item that is less important now than it was in 2020 it's kind of like subscribing

00:11:42.140 to this very cookie cutter mold of whatever aesthetic you are chasing after. And it also

00:11:47.600 doesn't end with clothing. And brands have definitely caught on. This is an example Lisa

00:11:51.980 says God just collabed with Fish Wife. Both are very trendy in their own right. One's clothing,

00:11:56.260 one's tinned fish. This whole thing is, I think, the direction microtrends are heading in. Because

00:12:02.160 brands know it's not just about the clothing anymore. The world of trends and participating

00:12:06.400 in trends is so much more expansive. And the pressure to consume things in many different

00:12:11.800 categories that fit under one aesthetic is just much more than i've ever seen in my lifetime

00:12:17.120 earlier in the video mandy also talks about how people whether that's tongue-in-cheek or otherwise

00:12:22.400 like i'm referring to themselves as like the micro trend final boss and kind of owning that label 0.73

00:12:28.620 what are your thoughts on that i feel like this is wrapped up in like shit posting and like ironic 0.92

00:12:34.940 irony pilled posting because i saw a tiktok from polyester zine recently that was like 0.95

00:12:42.920 at what point does like um irony posting turn into earnest posting this is like getting so

00:12:50.640 like chronically online but at what point is there like you're making fun of yourself but at what

00:12:56.600 point are you actually being earnest and that reminds me a lot of like referencing yourself

00:13:00.620 as like the micro trend final boss is it like being really confident in your fashion choices

00:13:05.960 and knowing like and acknowledging like I know that these are all like really trendy pieces that

00:13:10.420 I'm just smushing together but I also think my take as well is that there's a lot of privilege

00:13:18.100 in being a micro trend final boss even if people aren't aspiring to that I feel like slim white 1.00

00:13:26.100 traditionally beautiful women get away with like smushing all the trends onto their bodies 1.00

00:13:33.060 a lot more easily and it's considered trendy more so than people who are above like a size 12. 1.00

00:13:41.720 Yeah and to add to that because speaking of privilege also financial privilege being able

00:13:46.540 to participate in every single micro trend that comes your way. And also like doing it authentically

00:13:53.200 like in terms of if you're not buying dupes because sometimes dupes can look like less good

00:13:58.960 obviously as like something you pay two hundred dollars for so if you're like actually buying the

00:14:04.020 legit version that is trending like the mu mu ballet um slippers for example or a certain pair

00:14:11.320 of sunnies that are like 80 versus like the 20 cotton on version you're gonna also look more

00:14:16.140 elevated and therefore like more trendy that's not a revolutionary take at all um just like an

00:14:21.920 observation i guess yeah with the micro trend final boss thing i mean in one way i liked it

00:14:28.460 because it's like yeah self-referential kind of owning it almost being like oh i look like

00:14:32.700 all the other girls like i am one of the yes whatever they say like i'm exactly like other

00:14:37.280 girls but you're right in the sense of like oh it's still over consumption at the end of the day

00:14:42.880 and should we be bragging about that it also reminds me of this great tiktok i saw this

00:14:49.920 morning by user Heidi Becker so she does this kind of spoken word poetry on her tiktok I know her

00:14:56.660 yeah and this one I it has 1.4 million views so clearly very it's hitting with people and I'll

00:15:05.140 play a little bit of it now what are the cool girls wearing this fall what are the hot girls

00:15:09.120 wearing this fall what are the it girls wearing this fall what are we wearing this fall what color

00:15:13.420 is in this fall is pop of her theory still in this fall are ballet flats still in this fall

00:15:18.360 are samba still in this fall what colorway is in this fall what wash of denim is in this fall

00:15:23.560 oh my god i hadn't actually seen that one it's freaky and it feels so real at the same time

00:15:29.080 having this conversation the trend of under consumption core is also happening so let's

00:15:36.460 break that down for listeners who might not have heard of this so this trend has popped up in the

00:15:41.640 last probably month and it champions minimalism and frugality it's encouraging people to maximize

00:15:49.040 what they have already bought and then only buy what they actually need which is said to be

00:15:54.880 challenging the culture of consumerism yeah like I guess what we typically see online in terms of

00:16:00.660 fashion and beauty specifically like unboxings or hauls or try-ons or all that jazz right that's

00:16:06.640 very like true to the genre but now people are kind of subverting that and showing maybe items

00:16:13.260 that they got secondhand as well as like their smaller wardrobes in terms of like not having

00:16:17.660 that many items as well as practical and well used like pieces in the home or wardrobe or whatever

00:16:24.200 like here's my beauty product like you know I've only got a three-step routine or whatever it might

00:16:29.160 be yeah I think this is a good trend I just feel like we've had this conversation before like we

00:16:35.840 had this conversation last year with de-influencing and I guess it's important for it to like

00:16:41.100 refresh every year more people become more mindful but also like it makes me really sad at the same

00:16:47.760 time that people weren't treating the things they already owned like that it feels like a very

00:16:53.520 American thing as well like why wouldn't you use all your makeup till it's finished why wouldn't

00:16:59.640 you use the toothpaste until it's literally like you're squeezing out of the bottle like

00:17:03.680 that is like normal behavior to me and the fact that it's considered like oh my god environmentalist

00:17:10.560 over here i'm like oh my god this is so depressing yeah truly i think with last week we talked about

00:17:16.540 how reality kind of feels warped at the moment but when especially like younger people who get

00:17:22.180 so much information from social media and who follow influences it's like do influences show

00:17:27.800 any part of that as like part of their lifestyles like that is so like unseen like

00:17:35.540 unfortunately I know you're so right like this is what we all do but we never see this online so we

00:17:40.760 kind of did feel kind of um quite not groundbreaking something less than groundbreaking like ground

00:17:48.520 tickling

00:17:48.980 ground tickling that's so good I also saw some people getting a little bit of brain rot over this

00:17:57.540 so a woman posted a video of her kitchen i think it was and was talking about like how she's not

00:18:05.460 buying lots of new items and it was a video basically talking about how she is participating

00:18:10.380 in under consumption core then people apparently were calling her out because she had a fridge full 0.75

00:18:17.560 of food right and then the woman is like in the comments like i have three kids like i need a 1.00

00:18:24.540 fridge full of food like we need to eat and it's just that chronically online brain rot thing of

00:18:29.840 people just like taking things a step too far like not really thinking about it um critically

00:18:35.720 and just kind of getting a bit holier than thou about it but they're probably people who are doing

00:18:42.040 that are probably like teenagers right who are like making those comments so annoying um katherine

00:18:50.240 Gia who is a Sydney based slow fashion influencer she was interviewed for the ABC about this and I

00:18:56.000 liked one quote that she said which was calling it a call insinuates it's not going to stick around

00:19:01.540 like cottagecore and barbiecore I think we can improve the phrase so I found that a really

00:19:06.720 good point like it shouldn't be a trend and we're calling it like a call and a trend I guess so

00:19:11.980 hopefully it just becomes more normalized like some of the criticisms against this trend is that

00:19:18.220 oh, isn't it just like normal consumption, right? Exactly what you were saying as well.

00:19:23.580 But yeah, I guess we just need to see more of it. Speaking of fashion and influences and the like,

00:19:30.440 there was this viral video about a week ago on TikTok and it is by user Rian Finn, who is at

00:19:37.860 that adult on TikTok. And she was talking about how fashion knowledge equals outside knowledge

00:19:43.760 and the importance of like living in the world and drawing from different like inspiration and

00:19:50.000 knowledge when informing art and fashion. So let's play a snippet here because they speak about it so

00:19:55.560 beautifully. Fashion, you can't use fashion to understand fashion because it limits you. No one

00:20:01.040 is designing clothes just about fashion. Like they're designing about life, about nature, about

00:20:05.400 romance, about fear, about anxieties, about interpersonal relationships, about their

00:20:09.860 childhoods about being bullied about being loved and accepted about being never accepted etc etc

00:20:15.200 you have to understand like about philosophy about spirituality and religion right about loss grief

00:20:20.920 i think these are things that you're much better off understanding outside of fashion and then

00:20:26.260 applying them to fashion rather than just being like this is about clothes clothes about clothes

00:20:29.940 fashion and culture writer viv chen actually referenced this tiktok in her newsletter the

00:20:36.600 molehill and I think this is an important point about who are we looking to for like

00:20:44.860 fashion inspiration when like the market is so saturated so a reader Lindsay posted a thoughtful

00:20:53.080 question in the newsletter chat Lindsay asked that she's noticed a lot of people who make a

00:20:58.700 living off fashion content are actually totally unable to describe the fabrics and the cuts

00:21:02.820 and they're basically just being aware of what's cool at the moment rather than knowing about the

00:21:08.280 intricacies of fashion at all this is such an interesting take viv replied to it in her

00:21:15.380 sub stack and said quote there is something especially frustrating about seeing a fashion

00:21:20.740 influencer talk about clothes and not be able to describe the very basics of its construction

00:21:25.700 falling back on bland talking points we've all heard a million times like this top is so flattering

00:21:32.060 we are tired of the growing perceived expertise gap between ourselves and someone who earns

00:21:38.360 financial and social capital brand deals a social following from talking about clothes

00:21:44.120 what are your thoughts on this like perceived expertise gap i think there's an interesting

00:21:49.880 point in this but also it does feel a little bit gatekeepy at the same time like do we think do we

00:21:56.340 think everyone who's a fashion influencer needs a fashion degree or like technical skills which is

00:22:00.880 like totally different things like being a fashion consumer and a culture and fashion writer versus

00:22:06.800 like a designer or a seamstress they are totally different skills I think so I don't know if you

00:22:13.840 can yes it's the same industry but do you need both of them to be considered legitimate in the

00:22:19.240 industry I don't think so it's a good point and it's one that one of Viv's followers um raises

00:22:26.220 in like the Instagram comment section Lexi so they say torn between let people post their fit

00:22:32.520 checks in peace and well if you're going to make a living on outfits and fashion in some way it

00:22:37.780 may behove you to know like a little bit about fabrics and construction I certainly don't expect

00:22:43.240 every fashion adjacent influencer to know how to construct their own garments from scratch

00:22:47.960 and be an encyclopedia but I do think if you're going to pass yourself off as an expert in fashion

00:22:53.700 or outfits you should to a degree make an effort to know what you're talking about I think for me

00:22:59.720 it has something to do with the level of influence but it's hard to draw a line in the sand yeah

00:23:05.160 that's like a response that I 100% agree with as well yeah especially if it's your full-time job

00:23:11.120 surely you then have some time away from your phone to like research the things that you're

00:23:17.240 talking about yeah I mean I think that's such a good point because I think yeah if someone is a

00:23:21.780 fashion influencer and that's a full-time job and they don't know much about fashion or

00:23:27.960 something like that I don't know how to I don't want to be like rude about it but let's just say

00:23:31.960 they have not that much understanding of fashion I do think they're less of a fashion influencer

00:23:38.140 and just like a trend influencer like they're not really in the fashion world they're just

00:23:43.460 showing what's new or a shopping influencer I don't think there's wrong to like admit that you're

00:23:49.300 I think there is a really big distinction between that, like a fashion influencer and a

00:23:53.860 shopping editor, essentially. Yes. Another one of Viv's commenter said,

00:24:01.160 sort of like all the food influencers who make money on visiting food all over the world,

00:24:05.380 but can't describe anything except by saying, wow.

00:24:14.720 A headline has been going around the internet lately, which reads,

00:24:18.100 how fruity boys became the new soft boys and this is an article for days who are always killing it

00:24:24.860 on the culture grind and it was written by Halima Jabril. This piece talks about the internet's use

00:24:31.620 of the term fruity as moving on from just signifying a person's sexuality and now kind of

00:24:38.260 like encompassing someone who is like progressive. You also may have seen some videos that women have

00:24:45.140 been making with their boyfriends to this sound i love when beautiful girls have a little gay

00:24:50.520 boyfriend they just have a little feminine vintage levi's wearing tote bag carrying 0.53

00:24:57.600 mustached little boyfriend he's covered in the most random tattoos you've ever seen ones like

00:25:02.620 so in the video the women are proudly standing beside their boyfriends while they are shocked

00:25:07.680 by how well the sound describes their aesthetics they often don't seem to be offended they're kind

00:25:14.120 like agreeing like oh my god yes that's me the comment sections are often filled with other

00:25:18.660 women proclaiming that they too need a fruity boyfriend in their lives and this like change

00:25:24.820 in desirability for men has been something that's been like long time coming last few years the

00:25:30.320 soft boy has been on the rise this piece picks out men like josh o'connor timothy chalamet harry

00:25:38.100 Styles, Paul Mescal, Steve Lacey, Omer Apollo, and some of these guys who fit the brief. We also

00:25:45.240 saw the rise of the rat boy. Is that what they call it? The rat boyfriend or rat man? Rat man

00:25:51.460 does not sound good. But like kind of these other types of attractive qualities or appearances

00:25:59.120 that people are leaning towards. The article says that all of these men are labeled as being

00:26:05.120 fruity either because of their proximity to queerness through being queer or playing queer

00:26:09.660 on screen or through their engagement in behaviors regarded as feminine it's interesting that women

00:26:15.080 are finding this like these feminine qualities to be what they want in a cisgendered man um but i

00:26:23.780 don't think it's a surprise at all i think it's in response to the rise of the right and toxic

00:26:31.480 masculinity that we've seen over the past decade or so also the violence against women that has

00:26:37.220 been on the rise as well women are kind of like it's like the male versus female gaze right like

00:26:43.520 men think that women want in talking like traditionally heterosexual relationships as

00:26:49.100 well men think that women want like muscle men like alpha men like i'll take care of you

00:26:56.320 kind of energy when most women i know like if there was a choice between like a gentle and

00:27:04.960 kind man versus some like beefed up steroid muscle man not body shaming at all but just you know i'm 0.62

00:27:13.340 talking about stereotypes here they would go for like the person who is like funny and like nice

00:27:18.920 to their mom versus like what the male beauty standards are at the moment completely no i

00:27:26.140 definitely see that as well and the crux of the piece kind of goes into the potential problems

00:27:32.200 with this term though like calling like usually straight men fruity especially in the context of

00:27:39.040 you know is it problematic for straight women to use um of course fruity even like in this context

00:27:45.740 it's used positively you know it's used to be like to suggest someone is soft gentle tender

00:27:52.100 effeminate but of course it used to be a slur slash it probably still is it is as well still

00:27:58.200 yeah in context against gay men it originated in britain as well and they compared gay men to fruit 0.55

00:28:04.220 because they were believed to be soft tender and effeminate officially so the writer in the days

00:28:09.880 piece writes this is one of the main problems queer men and non-binary people have with straight

00:28:15.700 women's usage of the term while it's nice to see people looking toward a different type of

00:28:21.020 masculinity, it's jarring to see straight women who uphold heteronormativity and harmful traditional

00:28:27.080 values stating that they want a fruity boyfriend. Not only is it kind of offensive, but you obviously 1.00

00:28:33.400 don't want a fruity boyfriend. You just want to date a straight man who is stylish. That was a

00:28:38.540 quote by a 24-year-old queer artist who's anonymous. I also think that, and the piece

00:28:45.680 references this is this trend i guess of categorizing people and straight men part of

00:28:53.200 gen z's obsession to label and categorize things and put things in boxes like people say gen z is

00:28:59.820 the most like open generation and like we don't care about labels but sometimes it feels like

00:29:04.540 gen z cares more about labels like there's even more definitions and subcategories and like

00:29:11.060 niche cultural things that mean we are constantly and I think this relates again to like our

00:29:18.400 fashion aesthetic conversation the way we're like oh you're an oat milk latte drinking weed pen

00:29:24.560 tabby wearing girly and I'm not part of that club it's very like tribalistic and do we think

00:29:32.340 has that only originated through internet use like through fandoms I don't think so I think

00:29:39.040 what's problematic or what i'm kind of fixated on is how um it can affect queer communities

00:29:48.320 particularly like uh this was a couple years ago so there was a trend of um there was a trend term

00:29:55.680 called bi wife energy right and it was kind of saying it was a positive phrase used to describe

00:30:02.700 men who give off the energy of like their partner their wife their girlfriend being bi that is

00:30:09.000 you're so i've totally forgot about that yeah and at the time i was like oh giggle giggle like this

00:30:14.680 is um like fun and funny which i still think it is and but um we had a couple of our friends kind

00:30:21.320 of point out that it might not be as positive as it seems because it's like traditionally straight

00:30:29.680 men are benefiting off queer like proximity to queerness i mean i guess there was like some

00:30:36.760 social capital benefits but i don't know if it particularly changed anything in society there

00:30:43.860 was a song wasn't there because suddenly i have a song in my head by wife energy he is by wife

00:30:50.920 energy yeah it's catchy i love it i think at the end of the day right where all these things like

00:30:56.740 talking about fruity boyfriends to an extent and like by wife energy it can be seen as harmless 0.97

00:31:02.180 But I think at the end of the day, we have to ask like who is benefiting off queer culture

00:31:07.560 and who is being protected here? 0.99

00:31:09.300 Because it is these straight girlfriends.

00:31:11.300 It is these boyfriends of bi girlfriends, not people who are more marginalized in queer

00:31:17.980 communities. 0.90

00:31:19.040 So it's like while this can be fun and while like queer culture, especially now is having

00:31:23.220 such a moment in pop culture, people can't just pick and choose which part of like queerness

00:31:29.340 that they want to resonate with or align with.

00:31:32.180 like that's just not how it works. It is time for recommendations now. Jazz, what's something

00:31:43.400 that you've loved watching, reading or listening to recently? This week, I've been reading and

00:31:48.740 subscribing to a lot of Substacks. I feel like they've always been in my peripheral. I had like 1.00

00:31:54.300 a couple of faves, but I actually went on the Substack website, like the platform online,

00:32:00.200 just kind of started scrolling through i was getting recommendations and i came across

00:32:03.980 this newsletter called big undies and the article that i read that um i really enjoyed

00:32:12.320 was when the collective taste doesn't include you by corinne faye so the article goes through a few

00:32:20.640 of the top fashion sub stacks which are mostly based in the u.s and it includes former men

00:32:25.820 repeller founder leandra medin's substack and it speaks to the lack of size diversity in the

00:32:31.860 shopping sections because you know a lot of these newsletters are essentially like what fashion

00:32:36.940 magazines used to be in recommending products to people i really enjoyed the newsletter because i

00:32:41.620 think it's a really nuanced criticism and analysis of the inequality in fashion and it doesn't like

00:32:49.960 tear other women down by critiquing them which I think is like a hard thing to do sometimes when

00:32:58.580 you are being marginalized and I think it's just very well written so it speaks to the discourse

00:33:08.060 of affordability of clothes that fashion influencers are recommending to people as well

00:33:12.560 I'll read a bit out now very expensive clothes are recommended rather breezily in a lot of fashion

00:33:18.660 writing, but can we also talk about how this inaccessibility intersects and overlaps with

00:33:23.920 anti-fatness? Many, many, many of the recommended brands don't make above a size 12, even though the

00:33:30.220 off-sited statistic is that 67% of women wear above a size 14. Brands that only make up to a

00:33:36.900 size 12 are only making clothes for the smallest 33% of women, and maybe a similarly small percentage

00:33:44.100 of the top earners. It's worth noting that roughly 40% of Netter Porter's sales come from 3% of its

00:33:51.520 customers. Wow. The conclusion reads, I have to hope that the solution to Leandra's conundrum

00:33:57.060 involves hewing less rigidly to what has been historically considered stylish and focusing less

00:34:02.700 on the bodies that fashion has prioritized for way too long. If you ask me what happens when

00:34:08.440 you abandon the collective taste i would say maybe something exuberant and huge and bizarre

00:34:14.120 something unexpected and delightful maybe something more inclusive and more available

00:34:19.440 to more people maybe something that doesn't try to sell me clothes that make me feel like a

00:34:24.460 statistical anomaly when in reality i'm just not that far from average oh that is such a good piece

00:34:31.140 of writing a very good recommendation thank you i also while we're talking about fashion and

00:34:37.060 bodies you were interviewed in fashion journal this week for your tiered skirt look that you've

00:34:46.220 worn a few times and I really I've spoken about this off mic but I really appreciated the way

00:34:51.580 that you recognize that for a person with larger boobs or um who has different proportions like

00:34:59.600 my top half is literally like two to three sizes bigger than my bottom half

00:35:03.940 i appreciate that you acknowledge that because sometimes it can be hard to be like super creative

00:35:11.240 with clothes when you're wearing like such differing sizes and styles so i want to say

00:35:18.320 thank you for that oh thank you for bringing it up appreciate it and what do you recommend this

00:35:25.680 week, Mags? I am recommending a podcast episode that actually first aired in 2000, in the year

00:35:34.280 2000. Yep. So this is an episode of This American Life. The episode is called 24 Hours at the Golden

00:35:42.200 Apple. They just re-release it, which they do often. So it's right at the top of the podcast

00:35:46.720 feed. Essentially, it's such a good premise, right? It is the team at This American Life

00:35:53.660 documented 24 hours at a Chicago diner called the Golden Apple starting at 5am and ending at 5am

00:36:01.140 the next morning. So as you can imagine, they interview such a mixed bag of people from

00:36:07.540 waitress to regular customers to drunks and cops. So it was such a fun piece of like human interest

00:36:17.160 journalism especially because it's 24 years old it's from such another time and to see how people

00:36:25.840 like talked and interacted and thought pre-social media and everything was really eye-opening and

00:36:34.360 I also think it was really eye-opening because not much has changed like we're still human like

00:36:38.220 so many of the thoughts beliefs desires are still so on par with just who we are today so

00:36:44.620 um I really like this it was a bit of a different type of podcast it made for like different podcast

00:36:52.100 listening than I'm used to and um I'd recommend it to people I want to know in what context were

00:36:57.060 you listening to this like were you sitting on a train were you cleaning because I feel like that

00:37:03.200 the context of where you listen to things like shapes how I listen so much so and this feels

00:37:11.080 like such a storytelling moment yeah it totally was um honestly I think I was like some of it was

00:37:17.580 on a walk and others was just like lounging around the house like maybe cleaning or just doing kind

00:37:22.580 of little things um yeah listen I love like old like things from like the early 2000s it feels

00:37:32.520 like it felt like such a pivotal point in human history of like a new millennium and then like

00:37:37.320 the tech boom coming in before but pre-social media feels like such a i mean all of history

00:37:42.520 is important to an extent but such a moment in time such a moment in time and one of the reporters

00:37:47.760 who worked on this story nancy uptike she is still part of the this american life team to this day

00:37:54.000 like i hear her on new records present day so it's just amazing to see somebody's career

00:37:59.240 span decades and decades but anyway that's the end of that's the end of our chat we've been

00:38:04.240 chatting for so long thank you for listening as always if you want to see more from us you can

00:38:10.440 follow us at culture club pod on instagram and tiktok and if you like this episode maybe give

00:38:17.080 us a little review as well on apple itunes or spotify because it really helps us out yes or

00:38:22.880 even tell a friend about us someone that you think might enjoy listening that would

00:38:26.820 mean the world to us otherwise we'll talk to you next time bye

00:38:34.240 You

Culture Club - August 05, 2024

Microtrend Final Boss

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