Culture Club - The Aestheticisation Of Loneliness, Grammys’ Asian Award & Girl Math Hits Retail

00:00:00.000 Celebrity Weddings Galore, the Grammys' new controversial category, and the problem with

00:00:10.320 aesthetic loneliness influences. I'm Maggie Zhao.

00:00:14.080 And I'm Jasmine Wallace, and you're listening to Culture Club, where two writers and editors

00:00:17.980 chat about pop culture, the arts, and the internet. 0.63

00:00:21.400 Today, we're on the land of the Wurundjeri Woiwurrung people of the Kulin Nations.

00:00:25.700 We would like to pay our respects to elders past and present and extend that to any Aboriginal or

00:00:30.600 Torres Strait Islander listeners today. We're coming from a sleepover together last night.

00:00:40.260 We've just spent the whole night and morning together. How cozy and cute. That sounds so

00:00:45.220 romantic. We're actually lovers. No, I'm house sitting at the moment and I'm in this big house

00:00:51.860 by myself so i was like mags come over get some thai food did podcast stuff watched an episode

00:00:57.500 of dairy girls because you're still watching yes you introduced me and i'm loving it we're

00:01:01.740 at the final season and then we got up together we took the train in we took the bus in as well

00:01:07.480 and we just had a coffee like i'm feeling so great it feels like this is married life

00:01:12.140 welcome to married life thank you and also guys maggie just said before we started recording that

00:01:18.020 she never has a coffee this close to getting on the mic so she's feeling buzzy she's feeling good

00:01:23.100 she has a little bit of a manic look in her eye so let's see how we go yeah it's tingling in my

00:01:28.220 fingers all that caffeine that one coffee we have a big episode this week so we're gonna just dive

00:01:36.060 right in first cap off the rank is that joe orwin is dating brand new person sarah pigeon yes joe

00:01:44.520 Orwin famously, Taylor Swift's ex. I feel like he will have that title for the rest of his days.

00:01:49.940 But of course, he's an actor in his own right. Loved him in Hamlet as well. And yeah, he's been

00:01:55.360 spotted with Sarah Pidgeon, who of course, we all know from love story earlier this year.

00:02:01.080 The pair was spotted in New York having some romantic dates. They were first spotted hanging

00:02:06.940 around the Fort Greene neighborhood by Dumois. It was reported in Dumois. And then they were soon

00:02:11.920 captured by page six walking around brooklyn laughing and chatting and even kissing yes i

00:02:18.940 saw those kissing pics i was like okay that is more confirmation of this that was like the what

00:02:25.580 got the headlines going i love this couple i think it makes sense it really does on paper

00:02:30.960 yeah they look good together they look very good together both very attractive people

00:02:34.680 and they kind of like they look not they don't look similar similar but you know they're both

00:02:41.360 tall and blonde yeah tall and blonde also like taylor tall and blonde maybe he has a tap and

00:02:48.220 that is tall and blonde ladies beautiful beautiful but when this news came out i got served a tiktok

00:02:55.780 on my feed that shocked me and it was some actual celebrity gossip that we didn't know about which

00:03:01.600 is crazy because we literally host a pop culture podcast and it was by the user jessmeth69 in the

00:03:07.720 TikTok, she mentions that Sarah Pidgeon dated Caleb Harper of Spacey Jane, the Australian indie

00:03:13.920 band. Isn't that wild? I feel like we are only a few degrees of separation away from Taylor Swift

00:03:19.660 now. Oh my gosh. Are you saying because we interviewed Spacey Jane on the podcast? Yes.

00:03:25.080 We've talked to Caleb. We've talked to Caleb. Caleb is dating Sarah. Sarah is dating Jo. Jo

00:03:30.740 dated Taylor. Okay. We're four degrees now. We're getting closer. This is amazing. So we've

00:03:35.520 essentially dated Taylor Swift. Why was this so under the radar? Like Australian musical icons,

00:03:43.060 current as well, like they're quite young, very successful. They're getting more global success

00:03:47.560 as well. Why was that so under the radar that Sarah and Caleb were dating? I think on purpose.

00:03:53.080 So the two met during a Spacey Jane music video and then it is confirmed that they were dating,

00:03:59.440 but there's no like solid proof. They didn't like actively speak about it publicly much. So I think

00:04:04.520 they were quite private yeah but it was reported in harper's bazaar i read when the news of joe

00:04:09.480 and sarah emerged this week harper's bazaar said she's only been previously linked to caleb harper

00:04:14.500 as like a famous ex um however she's kept her private life mostly out of the spotlight speaking

00:04:19.620 of taylor swift rumors around her and travis kelsey's wedding are at an all-time high i feel

00:04:26.680 like i'm in a heist movie really yeah i feel like i've zoned out of it in the same way that i zone

00:04:33.460 out of the rumors around debut taylor's version album and i just think there's so many easter eggs

00:04:39.780 in her like world that even the wedding stuff i'm like i don't believe anyone and i will wait

00:04:45.640 until the pictures are out and it's confirmed true true let's talk about the two biggest rumors

00:04:50.640 because i think they're pretty compelling okay okay i'm gonna break it down to you people really

00:04:55.200 care because they are like the usa's royal couple they are the biggest couple of the moment and

00:05:02.120 everyone's speculating like what's going to happen with their wedding it's obvious that they want to

00:05:07.160 keep the details secret like for security and like privacy reasons so there have been a few

00:05:13.040 different plots thrown around the main one that they're getting married in madison square garden

00:05:18.800 who would get married in madison square garden sorry the most unromantic destination so uncheek

00:05:24.340 yeah you know the main reasons why people are saying this as well is they have like it's black

00:05:30.280 out like the it's like windowless it is quite private TMZ reports that the couple commissioned

00:05:36.480 a massive stage that's quote being secretly built at a Pennsylvania production facility

00:05:42.860 and that could be happening July 3 that's the date that people are throwing around they're

00:05:49.540 also saying the construction of the stage is quote under lock and key with security guards

00:05:54.040 patrolling the area and I think this is adding to like the suspense of it all and it's funny

00:05:59.560 it's a really hard position to be in I think for them as a couple because if you were so lax everyone

00:06:04.960 would know everything and then if you're like no like we have to keep this so private there's

00:06:08.480 security guards patrolling these spaces it also creates more mystery because people are like

00:06:13.740 intrigued it's like well what are you hiding from it or like what's the secret what's it going to be

00:06:17.320 so it's like a lose-lose situation for them I think yeah do you think they're going to get

00:06:22.260 married in New York City no I think it'll be somewhere like in a garden on a property

00:06:28.100 like somewhere that is my vision too if someone said paint me taylor swift's wedding i'd be like

00:06:35.040 yeah beautiful like enchanted vibe she's outside she might even be wearing a flower crown for one

00:06:40.700 of the events like don't her parents still do her parents still live on like the christmas tree farm

00:06:45.260 yeah perhaps i don't know if they do anymore but something like oh we got married at our parents

00:06:50.020 property like in the acreage and that could be private yes there this leads to the second rumor

00:06:57.340 that's pretty big at the moment it's like just breaking as we're recording this but there has

00:07:02.100 been new activity at taylor's road island mansion so people like oh is it happening there a tiktok

00:07:09.200 video reportedly showed four women gathered on a rooftop balcony three appeared to be wearing

00:07:14.000 black robes while a blonde woman wore white the footage has attracted attention because fans are

00:07:20.460 speculating if it's a pre-wedding celebration meaning the actual wedding is close at hand

00:07:25.640 yes apparently there was security oh my god every room is like there's security guards but people

00:07:30.880 were like yeah there was more security guards around that mansion neighbors are apparently

00:07:34.740 like you know it's usually dark there's not much activity um going on but that wednesday night at

00:07:40.720 8 p.m like the lights were on this could all be a distraction technique though which i love this

00:07:46.080 reminds me of princess protection program that disney movie i don't know with selena and demi

00:07:50.740 Yes.

00:07:51.560 I never saw it, but I know of it.

00:07:53.260 You need to watch that movie as a side note.

00:07:55.760 But I kind of like how they're doing little random.

00:07:59.460 Like decoys.

00:08:00.160 Yes.

00:08:00.940 Yeah.

00:08:01.400 It's working because we're talking about it and we're speculating.

00:08:03.760 But in the same way, I wait until Taylor's version album's out.

00:08:07.100 I am waiting until this is fully confirmed.

00:08:09.140 one wedding that has been confirmed is a wedding between Tom Holland and Zendaya

00:08:24.860 Tom Holland finally broke his silence I guess and spoke about the wedding for the first time ever

00:08:32.080 during an interview with Esquire Tom spoke about the AI generated images that were going around

00:08:36.460 the internet around the time of the wedding how bad were they it was like iron man like smiling

00:08:41.720 like and there's even one with tom holland like with his spider man like face costume thing mask

00:08:48.520 on and i'm like guys real let's be real and all the comments being like so happy for them or like

00:08:55.160 which is true but guys they're fake images it really scares me looking ai images the comment

00:09:00.340 sections of them because so many people believe it well speaking of people who did believe those

00:09:05.300 images, Tom's grandma called him up because she thought she hadn't been invited to the wedding

00:09:11.560 when she saw those images. Oh my God. I thought you meant your Tom's grandma.

00:09:19.300 Sorry, so confused. I was like, did she think that you were Zendaya? He hadn't been invited?

00:09:25.180 The journalist, Henry Wong, asked Tom if any of his other family members had also asked if they

00:09:30.740 hadn't been invited to the wedding um and then tom paused for six seconds thank you pedestrian tv

00:09:37.460 for including that detail and he replied no because they were all there powerful line

00:09:45.020 so funny he did gush about his new bride and described zendaya as his quote best friend and

00:09:52.700 person tom said our business can present very stressful situations and it's really nice to

00:09:57.300 have a bedrock of a relationship that will stand the test of time yeah he continued saying we can

00:10:01.860 support each other in ways that only we can because only we understand really what it's like to live

00:10:07.060 this life and i think that is such a luxury because i just don't understand how i would be able to have

00:10:12.560 anything like that with anyone else i love this part so for me i found my person she's my best

00:10:19.860 friend and i'm the happiest i have ever been when i'm with her but i have also never felt so supported

00:10:25.820 and safe ever period oh so cute interesting that he says like i don't understand how i would be

00:10:33.520 able to have anything like that with anyone else no because i guess that's like a personal

00:10:37.420 feeling they really grew up together right they met at the start of like the spider-man franchise

00:10:43.540 career so they have in many ways seen each other grow up like this so of course he could have

00:10:48.500 another famous celebrity like actress girlfriend or wife but not in the same way where i think

00:10:54.680 she saw him essentially at the start of his fame journey and it's so special i got served on

00:11:01.560 youtube actually um this really cute video of zendaya from like 15 years ago have you seen it

00:11:08.760 it had millions and millions of views and it was like hey guys it's zendaya like if you want to

00:11:12.860 find me these are my social media accounts and like these are the handles and it was just so like

00:11:17.280 sweet i used to watch her in shake it up so i've watched her since i was you know a very young 0.75

00:11:23.620 teenager i think that's the real generational divide yeah as well of like zillennial millennial

00:11:29.020 versus gen z is i did not watch that like i was already mid-high school then and you did i think

00:11:36.000 that we don't often have those things that we can like compare

00:11:39.540 the grammy awards is adding five new categories r&b collaboration or duo group performance the

00:11:55.920 best traditional pop vocal performance and best traditional folk album but the categories causing

00:12:01.780 some concern this week are the best asian pop music performance and the best latin song

00:12:06.840 hmm let's talk about this i feel like this past year's grammys was a massive moment we saw bad

00:12:16.420 bunny become the first artist to win the album of the year for his spanish-speaking album rosé

00:12:23.060 became the first k-pop artist nominated for record of the year which is kind of so crazy to me and

00:12:28.840 cat's eye landed nominations for best new artist and best pop duo group performance also of course

00:12:34.940 the k-pop demon hunters song golden also won an award so it was a very multicultural i guess

00:12:42.100 array of winners that the grammys doesn't usually platform so the grammys chief executive harvey

00:12:48.560 mason jr said that expanding this categories means like the event is more inclusive it enables the

00:12:55.540 awards to quote represent more music creators artists writers and producers so the recording

00:13:01.280 Academy who organizes the Grammy Awards added a number of Korean and Latino artists to its voting

00:13:07.860 panel last year as well and that was seen as laying the groundwork for more expansion in

00:13:14.240 inclusivity and multiculturalism which you think is great like on paper this seems like good news

00:13:21.420 right? Mainly going to be talking about the Asian pop music category today and on the announcement

00:13:29.080 for this category. They defined it as a song that uses quote meaningful use of one or more

00:13:37.580 Asian languages so it is more about the languages used. They did only also identify K-pop, J-pop

00:13:45.500 and C-pop explicitly in the definition. We don't know if that means they're excluding other Asian

00:13:51.760 music but I do find it like not a great sign that they're only pulling out these massive East Asian

00:13:58.560 names so for example the song dynamite by bts was massive hit they sang that song all in english

00:14:06.240 so that song wouldn't be up for this consideration yeah it's all about like the language

00:14:10.360 so what people are questioning is the push and pull between recognition and segregation

00:14:17.980 yeah i think most discourse i'm seeing online is more outrage i think i'm of a similar mind right

00:14:27.100 because for me it's like oh it sounds like you're going to just lump all these Asian artists together

00:14:31.840 in this category and then potentially exclude it for the big mainstream categories that we see

00:14:36.920 like best album or best artists of the year yeah like next year would Bad Bunny have won

00:14:42.560 the Grammy that he did if there was this Latin category and would it have been as a pop culture

00:14:49.880 moment if that was the case when the Grammys created the best rap album in 1996 this conversation

00:14:56.720 also came up so some of the hip-hop community initially pushed back on the grounds that this

00:15:02.960 separate category limited rap and made it not legitimate enough to be a album of the year

00:15:10.240 and segregated essentially especially when we know rap and hip-hop comes predominantly from

00:15:14.580 black communities and i think it is nice to see that uh i'm trying to do the quick math 30 years

00:15:20.800 on from that that doesn't seem to be the case i do think rap and hip-hop albums are right for

00:15:26.500 celebrated in these awards seasons. So I'm hoping that this could just be a nice

00:15:32.580 addition, but not like a takeover of Asian artists in particular at the Grammys.

00:15:41.220 the australian fashion brand lioness has come under fire this week after its graphic tees

00:15:56.880 were accused of sexist language lioness if you don't know it's a fast fashion brand here

00:16:02.100 they call themselves a fashion house which quote delivers sexy luxury inspired product designed

00:16:08.900 for headstrong fearless women who love to dress the way they feel the yellow t-shirt is also being

00:16:14.660 sold in maya as well as their online store for 29 and features a slogan on the front which reads

00:16:21.280 i'm too pretty to do math it's caught the attention of dr kathy foley who is the president of the

00:16:27.640 australian academy of technological sciences and engineering the australian former chief

00:16:33.900 scientist wrote to Maya Chair Olivia Wirth to raise concerns over the t-shirts messaging and

00:16:40.600 said that it would have an effect on girls and women in STEM. So she said it's not helpful and

00:16:46.480 it's giving such a wrong message. You have to ask what does it say to the world? What is it

00:16:51.600 encouraging women to think and aspire to? So this isn't actually the first time this has happened 1.00

00:16:56.740 locally. Last year the Advertising Standards Authority in New Zealand ordered the removal

00:17:03.400 of an ad because it promoted a pink backpack targeted at young primary school age girls

00:17:09.000 and said, can't do long division, which is like so niche, like specifically long division. 0.93

00:17:16.140 The watchdog determined that it perpetuated the myth that girls aren't good at math. So really 0.67

00:17:21.200 similar. Also in 2014, Libra period products were sanctioned for reinforcing the same negative

00:17:27.560 stereotypes because their ad read absorbs more than you ever did in maths class which is like

00:17:34.240 kind of clever in a way but like it is perpetuating the stereotype yeah like I feel like oh so funny

00:17:42.540 because I didn't absorb anything in maths class but I understand like the ramifications like you

00:17:47.440 don't need it on an ad yes it's like why on one hand I can see this as a light-hearted tongue-in-cheek

00:17:54.660 funny copy but on the other hand my main I think like where I mostly stand with this is that it is

00:18:02.540 more harmful than anything that we keep dismissing like women's intelligence as something that's the

00:18:08.840 butt of a joke like oh obviously girls can't do this it's just I just think in the scheme of

00:18:15.380 things like it's not helpful and it's like not even that funny no it's not even that funny and

00:18:20.540 it all adds up to the perception which is what these educators and scientists are saying this

00:18:27.660 week. Another big one was also in 1992 when Mattel launched a Barbie doll called Teen Talk Barbie

00:18:34.420 and each toy was programmed with like 250 messages and each doll could only say four so it was like

00:18:41.700 randomly generated and one of the statements were like I'm starting to be a doctor but then another

00:18:47.260 one said math class is tough and then that provoked this uproar from mathematicians and

00:18:54.040 educators as well so really similar and mattel ended up pulling the barbie from the shelves

00:18:58.640 1992 was 34 years ago and it's literally the same story i think it's even more pertinent now than

00:19:07.480 it was in 1992 because we are having all these conversations about girl math you know trad wives

00:19:15.020 it does sometimes feel like women's rights are being rolled back you're right we can see both 1.00

00:19:20.960 sides but yeah I just don't think it's needed right I also think there's something about the 0.80

00:19:27.240 over-identification of negative traits about yourself that just it's almost like manifestation

00:19:33.480 it becomes true you tell yourself you're bad at something you are then you believe that and then

00:19:38.420 you act in that way so I don't think that stances like this or these like cute throwaway lines like

00:19:43.640 oh I'm so bad at maths and I know you know we all say things like that but I actually think we

00:19:48.540 should actually try push back against that I've been doing that in my own life I always would

00:19:53.300 used to be like oh I'm just really bad at languages my brain's not wired that way and

00:19:58.380 then I've been thinking I'm like no that that's not true Ellen like I can work on this and I've

00:20:04.200 shown myself recently no I like I can do this and I think when we put those labels on ourselves

00:20:09.220 or only doing ourselves a disservice.

00:20:11.680 Yeah, I love that.

00:20:12.820 I'm like that with money.

00:20:14.080 Like a few years ago, I'd be like, I'm just so bad with money.

00:20:15.920 And now I'm like, nope, this is an active choice

00:20:18.100 and you can learn how to be better.

00:20:20.700 Last night we were like talking about this really briefly

00:20:22.900 and you're like, Jaz, where's your maths book?

00:20:24.960 Because I said I was going to get better at maths.

00:20:27.260 I still want to.

00:20:28.480 I still want to.

00:20:29.340 Maybe I'll add it to my like winter hobbies

00:20:31.100 that we talked about in the episode recently.

00:20:33.840 Alan Duggan is the CEO of the Australian Association

00:20:37.020 of Mathematics Teachers.

00:20:38.560 he wrote an opinion piece for the sydney morning herald as i was reading it i was like gosh this

00:20:44.560 is quite a strong stance like it's very angry in its tone but then halfway through the piece he

00:20:50.540 says that he has a little girl who's in year six and i was like oh okay like i think when you have

00:20:57.280 obviously we have empathy but like i think when you have a child who is at that exact age of like

00:21:02.640 I feel like at the age of like 11 12 is when you start questioning your passions and your hobbies

00:21:09.220 and you're like am I good at maths or like oh girl shouldn't be good at maths so I should focus

00:21:13.840 on something else and so I can see why he's so angry at this when you have real state you see

00:21:19.500 the consequences of it we also see that with girls participation in sports it often falls

00:21:26.600 off a cliff around this time there's so many different reasons for that but like messaging

00:21:31.080 around like what girl's body should look like or what they should be doing so I see the similarities

00:21:36.640 there too. So Alan wrote this is not a joke it's an identity statement a girl doesn't see it as

00:21:42.460 ironic she sees it modeled on someone who looks like the girl she compares herself with maybe

00:21:47.460 even aspires to be sold in a store her parents take her to she internalizes the message consciously

00:21:53.900 or not that this is an identity available to her pretty girls don't do maths maybe that's who I am

00:22:00.520 It tells the girl wearing it and everyone who reads it that prettiness and mathematics are

00:22:05.380 mutually exclusive. That if you are one, you cannot be the other. That who you are is a reason

00:22:10.900 not to think. That if I want to be pretty, I can't do maths. In the piece as well, he really goes for

00:22:16.980 Maya, which I think is an interesting point because the brand is Lioness and Maya is just

00:22:22.020 selling it. But I think Maya representing like Australian retail departments, like that's the

00:22:27.440 take that the editor wanted i guess he even points out in the piece that lioness an australian brand

00:22:32.160 targeting australian girls isn't even spelling maths the way that we do in australia we say

00:22:37.380 maths with an s on the end but the shirt was like i'm too pretty to do math yeah because i feel like

00:22:43.820 it is playing into the like paris hilton bimbofication of girls yeah that we saw like 20

00:22:50.460 years ago so it's not surprising that they say math but i do think it is feeding into the

00:22:55.480 americanization of australia this is really deeping it now really deeping it but i think in the past

00:23:01.340 like five ten years because of the you know the internet essentially and us all being in different

00:23:08.360 echo chambers but like globally we're all in the same like seeing similar headlines talking about

00:23:14.080 similar things online and i think the influence of america on australia is only growing and this

00:23:20.300 is a good example of that using math I love it when we deep things like that I will say lioness

00:23:25.580 is a brand I would say more marketed towards women rather than like teens yes and I would feel weird

00:23:33.340 if I saw a child like a teenager wearing this but I'm thinking like if I saw one of our friends out

00:23:37.960 wearing this you are right it feels like one of those like funny like slogany tees slogany tees

00:23:44.340 that we see around there's a few of them one that comes to mind which is less degrading is the

00:23:50.280 career girl shirts and if you saw them they're just plain white shirts with like red font

00:23:53.520 and just says career girl but then you've still got like the girl in there and it's like grown

00:23:58.240 women wearing these shirts yes um i think it also is contributing to like the girlification of women

00:24:04.220 yes i also want to point out with the lioness thing again not uncommon for a fast fashion brand

00:24:09.800 but if you literally google i'm too pretty to do math you'll find so many brands selling

00:24:15.040 similar tees so it's not even like an original idea from them too

00:24:18.340 have you noticed a certain type of social media content that's focused on loneliness

00:24:33.060 a writer for the cut rachel pick has and wrote a piece called the loneliness influences

00:24:39.180 inside the luxurious tedium of i have no friends tiktok jazz has this been something you've seen

00:24:46.120 on your for you page I follow one creator called Bambi who she's British and she lives with her

00:24:53.560 parents and that's a big part of her content is like talking about how she doesn't really

00:24:58.300 have friends she's never had a long-term partner she moved home and now she's like

00:25:02.800 really successful in her influencing online career but a lot of her content is about living

00:25:08.100 with her parents and why it's okay why it's okay to be like lonely and I think it's interesting

00:25:13.420 seeing her perspective that's like one who I follow but it was a really great article and

00:25:19.620 I looked into like the content creators that Rachel references and I hadn't heard of them

00:25:25.920 before so I don't think it's coming up on my feed. Again her article is quite New York based as well

00:25:31.960 so I'm sure this is definitely happening in Australia with different references but it's

00:25:37.220 not something I've engaged with much too what I find interesting is Rachel opens the piece by

00:25:43.300 talking about what traditional influencers do and sell which is they sell you desire things that you

00:25:48.960 want or you aspire to you know fancy meals out overseas trips like cool clothes all that and

00:25:56.220 it's interesting that this niche is almost built on the opposite of that making you feel okay with

00:26:01.860 what you don't have almost. So the videos she references really vary. So some of them are like

00:26:08.080 POV videos titled, you live alone in New York City and have no friends. So your nights look

00:26:13.660 like this. And it's just like someone chilling in the living room. It also goes from things like

00:26:18.540 POV, you're a single girl who lives alone and has no friends. So you go grocery shopping at 10

00:26:24.260 0 4 p.m to things that are more serious things like pov you escaped your abuser now you live

00:26:31.780 alone with no kids and no friends i think this is such a fascinating subject because we are really

00:26:37.340 like truman showing ourselves now at this point if you're online we're all filming ourselves like

00:26:42.340 doing different day-to-day activities i also think this is coming out of the fatigue with

00:26:49.680 like traditional influencers who are showing more aspirational content luxury content luxury fashion

00:26:56.740 hauls this I think this is blowing up as well because it is like regular people who are showing

00:27:04.200 a vulnerability which is they don't have friends or they live alone and they're turning they're

00:27:09.840 choosing to turn that into an identity pillar or like a strength completely right and you know what

00:27:15.640 reminds me of like a decade ago on social media when it was really like the new hot thing to cry

00:27:22.580 on camera and talk about your mental health like that was um quite a gear shift change in what we

00:27:28.360 expected from public figures online and this is like a cousin of that I think one point that I

00:27:35.900 pulled out from the article that made me be like yeah what is happening here is Rachel writing how

00:27:42.560 introverted can a person be while also making public facing content about their private lives

00:27:48.180 I think that's interesting because how can you you're introverted but you're also showing like

00:27:53.500 this most intimate moment of like cooking by yourself sitting on the sofa by yourself I guess

00:27:58.880 you could say that's like normal or even boring but if you can connect with an audience of viewers

00:28:05.620 what's stopping you from connecting with people in your real world and I really did have to check

00:28:12.820 myself when I was reading this because I was like it's not that hard to make friends and then I we

00:28:17.320 had a little convo about it and I and you were like some people do find it really hard and I was

00:28:21.820 like oh yeah that's my my world experience my privilege coming through of like finding it easy

00:28:26.280 to make friends what do you think about that like if you're making content online about this and

00:28:30.860 you're you have hundreds of thousands of followers in some cases do you think you do have the ability

00:28:35.140 to go out and make friends in the quote-unquote real world?

00:28:37.840 I actually think there's a big difference between making content

00:28:40.320 and being sociable.

00:28:42.580 I know so many content creators and I think a platform, for instance,

00:28:47.620 like YouTube, which prioritises like long form,

00:28:51.220 like chatty content like that, a lot of people who are quite introverted

00:28:55.600 actually are on these sites because I think there is a massive difference

00:28:59.740 of like being by yourself in a room talking to a camera

00:29:02.460 and there's no one else actually physically there with you I feel like that's so much less

00:29:08.880 intimidating than having like a real person or a stranger that you are trying to converse with

00:29:14.820 also because you can control it right like you can say something to a camera and then edit it out

00:29:20.720 and you're controlling your image whereas when you're in a conversation with the person it is a

00:29:24.680 harder because it's like a natural flowing thing another quote um from the article is

00:29:30.760 the centering of actual friendlessness worried me like I was watching tiny documentaries about

00:29:36.260 the loneliness epidemic. This is bang on I think so yeah when Rachel said that in a piece I was

00:29:41.700 like yeah because I don't know if I felt uncomfortable about this content I think

00:29:47.160 I totally understand why it's there because there's elements of being relatable but I'm like

00:29:52.280 is this good for us that was what I was trying to get at is it good if we keep like basking in

00:29:57.760 these conversations around loneliness and almost like validating each other's experiences for sure

00:30:03.240 to some extent because loneliness is part of the human condition but the way she puts that like

00:30:09.160 we're really centering friendlessness almost like an identity trait like we were just talking about

00:30:14.400 yeah and it's like that thing of like oh I'm bad at maths or I'm bad at money if you say I have no

00:30:19.100 friends I have no friends I have no and you're putting that out into the world online and it

00:30:23.620 becomes like a core identity of yours you're not going to want to change that if you're getting

00:30:27.080 like rewarded whether it's in follows or views or whatever even brand partnerships but you know

00:30:33.440 sometimes these people can veer into you start earning money off the fact that you have no

00:30:37.000 friends what is incentivizing you to go out and make friends if like you've had so much

00:30:43.840 quote-unquote success like online by making that your identity I think it's really worrying

00:30:49.120 this relates to a sub stack written by Caitlin Richardson who has a sub stack called Milk Fed

00:30:55.480 the piece is called Heidegger and the Illusion of Aesthetized Loneliness. That concept of

00:31:02.000 aestheticized loneliness, I think, like hits the nail on the head of what we are getting at here.

00:31:07.560 So he didn't know Heidegger is acknowledged to be one of the original philosophers of the 20th

00:31:13.220 century. So just for some context, but Caitlin writes, the moment we aestheticize loneliness

00:31:20.160 is the moment we refuse to experience it. We keep it at a distance, turning it into

00:31:25.460 something external rather than something that lives inside us. The curated image of solitude,

00:31:31.260 the rider alone with their thoughts, the wanderer lost in contemplation, is not solitude at all.

00:31:37.100 It's a performance, a way of controlling something that in reality leaves us powerless.

00:31:42.560 And this is why we resist it, because real loneliness does not make us feel special.

00:31:47.020 It does not offer revelation or transformation. It just exists, indifferent to whether we

00:31:53.160 acknowledge it or not. So we reach for a distraction, for connection, for a version

00:31:58.020 of solitude that is curated and controlled. But in doing so, we deny ourselves the one thing

00:32:03.960 loneliness demands of us, to simply sit with it, without dressing it up, without making it mean

00:32:09.760 anything more than what it is. I love this take. I think it's so right because when we are performing

00:32:17.880 loneliness. We're not sitting with what it actually expects from us. And we're almost like

00:32:23.640 outsourcing our feeling and like letting, I mean, it's in a nice way. It's nice to share how you're

00:32:29.120 feeling with others, but you're not allowing yourself to embody that and really kind of come

00:32:34.400 to terms, come to terms with how that feels. Yes. It's actually something I'm going through

00:32:40.680 at the moment is going to therapy and like actually trying to learn how to sit with my

00:32:44.960 emotions. I intellectualize them. And I also talk about them with like so many friends that I then

00:32:51.480 get muddled of like, what am I actually feeling? And I like distract myself and talk about it and

00:32:55.940 like flip it all around. And then I just keep moving through life. And I'm like, wait, what

00:33:00.620 was that? What's going on? Feeling a bit topsy turvy. So I think when the loneliness influences

00:33:05.820 are doing that as well, are you actually sitting with that? Are you monetizing loneliness? It's a

00:33:11.260 really funny concept because I don't think they want to change do they like being lonely what was

00:33:18.220 really nice I guess and refreshing is at the end of the cut piece when Rachel's interviewing a few

00:33:23.420 of these influencers at least one or two of them are actually making more friends in the world like

00:33:28.300 they're signing themselves up to pickleball group team sport and and other things because surely at

00:33:35.620 the end of the day we do want that connection that is why these influencers and their community

00:33:39.940 are in the same space they're finding like community with one another so at the end of

00:33:45.860 the day we're still trying to find like kinship and relationships and hopefully once we my hope

00:33:53.220 is once you're like oh cool I'm not alone in my loneliness I shouldn't feel ostracized or bad

00:33:58.920 about it other people feel this way maybe I do feel now empowered to try go out and make friends

00:34:09.940 it's now time for bookmarked where we share a recommendation we've been loving watching

00:34:20.040 reading or listening to maggie you're up first this is so rare for me i'm recommending a horror

00:34:26.960 movie and it is called leviticus it was i just released this year little disclaimer i worked

00:34:34.100 with them on my personal socials but this is not at all like related to that I'm so shook I'm

00:34:40.120 recommending a like an Australian horror movie but guys I want you to know it's horror light

00:34:46.120 it's not too scary let me tell you the premise right so it's set in this rural Australian town

00:34:52.820 it follows these two teenage boys they're played by Joe Bird and Stacey Clausen and it's like a 0.98

00:35:00.060 little queer love story but then because it is a religious town somebody comes in to try like 0.98

00:35:07.120 take this like a queer demon out from them and what it unleashes is this shape-shifting I guess 0.99

00:35:14.360 monster but it takes a form of what you most desire so in their case it's each other and it's 1.00

00:35:21.640 really compelling because you're like you don't know if you're seeing the real person or if you're

00:35:26.060 seeing the demon taking their form and it's like there's so much like a lust and want between them

00:35:31.780 and you're trying to fight against that it was such a good story and I feel like um it was more

00:35:37.260 about like a cultural commentary and like social commentary right like that's the real demon in

00:35:42.120 this homophobia right and conservative values so it wasn't too scary as well I would like to

00:35:49.000 preface and you can like shut your eyes you know what I mean um and I really liked it it's also a

00:35:54.480 perfect 87 minutes yes okay where can people watch it it's in the cinemas now how good and I feel

00:36:01.960 like we really don't get to see that many original Australian movies in the cinemas so watch it there

00:36:07.160 I feel like this is the winter of horror for Culture Club talking about it so much I don't

00:36:12.660 know if I'll see it in the movies I'm scared but we'll see we'll see now what about you what are

00:36:17.920 you recommending for us this is not like a revolutionary recommendation because everyone's

00:36:22.880 been talking about it but i read it this week and i really enjoyed it so i'm sharing i read

00:36:28.120 strangers a memoir of a marriage by bell burden you've probably seen it around it's like a white

00:36:32.920 book with blue kind of birds on the cover this is the one we talked about because it was getting

00:36:38.460 turned into a screen adaptation too hey yes it's um getting adapted with gwyneth paltrow starring

00:36:45.640 so i will quickly go through the premise it is a real story it's a memoir and it follows

00:36:52.240 Belle Burden who is a basically an heiress socialite um she trained as a lawyer ended up

00:36:59.640 marrying someone in finance in New York um so like wealthy family they get married and then 20 have

00:37:07.180 three kids together and 20 years later on like a random day in March 2020 Belle's husband leaves

00:37:13.860 her and the kids really abruptly and then it follows the months and years after this like

00:37:21.340 crazy story and the craziest part is that Belle says that like nothing was particularly wrong

00:37:27.180 like they weren't fighting it wasn't she didn't see it coming it was really just like a switch

00:37:32.320 went off and he was like I'm done with this family and left so everyone's talking about it

00:37:36.940 but I think for good reason it's great writing I couldn't put it down it was so easy to just like

00:37:42.240 get through it it is pretty salacious because it's got like divorce like wealth finance and

00:37:50.300 betrayal so I think all things that humans find really compelling to watch because I think

00:37:56.300 especially for married people it's like oh god like what if what if and also it's obviously a

00:38:01.320 good lesson of not becoming financially dependent on a man and even if you are wealthy or you're so

00:38:06.920 in love like you have to have eyes over your finances because a man can just overnight after

00:38:14.100 three children and 20 years decide he doesn't want to be with you anymore and ask for half of the

00:38:19.360 house and that you use your prenup to buy. Can't relate to that. But it is a good message of

00:38:26.040 financial dependence as well. It was based on Belle's essay that she wrote for Modern Love,

00:38:32.260 which is the classic New York Times column. So it's been built off of that. It's quite short as

00:38:38.260 well. So if you want like a winter read, I read it in a few sittings, but you could read it in

00:38:43.040 one go if you had a few hours. It's really great. I feel like it'd be a great audiobook too, hey?

00:38:47.700 Yes, also probably because she would be reading it herself.

00:38:50.360 There were parts that were just so like jaw-dropping

00:38:52.880 and that you're just like, oh God, this poor woman, this poor woman.

00:38:57.060 So yeah, a bit of a zeitgeisty one this week, but I really enjoyed it.

00:39:00.760 I'm so glad that you've actually read it because I've just seen so much about it.

00:39:04.020 I will be reading it eventually as well.

00:39:07.080 I want to be part of the hype.

00:39:08.980 Thanks for joining us today for this episode of Culture Club.

00:39:12.420 We've loved having you here.

00:39:14.000 If you enjoyed listening to this episode, share it with a friend,

00:39:16.500 rate and review on spotify or apple and you can also watch on youtube and we'll talk to you next

00:39:22.000 time bye bye

Culture Club - June 22, 2026

The Aestheticisation Of Loneliness, Grammys’ Asian Award & Girl Math Hits Retail

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