Culture Club - The “Kinda Chic” & Yellow Font Epidemic, Plus Role Model’s Break-Up & Auto-Fiction Ethics

00:00:00.000 Role models break up the ethics of autofiction and how has the kinder chic trend altered

00:00:10.560 our vocab. I'm Maggie Zhao and I'm Jasmine Wallace and you're listening to Culture Club

00:00:15.000 where two writers and editors chat pop culture, the arts and the internet. Today we are on the

00:00:20.280 lands of the Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung people of the Kulin Nations. We would like to pay our respects

00:00:25.440 to elders past and present and extend that respect to any Aboriginal or Torres Strait

00:00:29.840 Islander listeners today. It feels so good to be back on mic, Jazz. Welcome back. You were just

00:00:40.460 away in Europe for three weeks. I was. We haven't actually really seen each other IRL. We saw each

00:00:46.220 other for like 10 minutes at a MIF screening that you were hosting and then we kind of ran off. So

00:00:51.520 we haven't even like caught up on the trip. It feels weird. It feels weird. We were still texting

00:00:56.780 quite a lot when I was away I will say I was messaging you like every day yeah but mostly

00:01:00.800 about like podcast no no other things too I feel but I had the best time in Europe I was in London

00:01:07.420 and then I went to Copenhagen Fashion Week and then I went to Amsterdam and it genuinely was just

00:01:12.900 such a fun trip I feel like I got to catch up with a lot of people and I was going back to

00:01:19.380 cities I'd been to before so there's something really nice about returning to a place and like

00:01:23.580 feeling a bit familiar with it or being like I've been to that Sainsbury before and going back

00:01:29.040 yeah so it was really nice and it was summer which was beautiful but the heat wave has been

00:01:35.160 like disastrous and in London especially like when I was there at the end it was like 35 degrees and

00:01:41.020 they hadn't seen rain for two months the grass she was she was yellow and brittle did you go to like

00:01:47.440 Hyde Park or anywhere like Primrose Hill or anywhere yes Hyde Park Regents Park

00:01:52.880 where Serpentine is at Hyde Park.

00:01:56.060 There are so many parks, so many patches of grass I've sat on.

00:02:00.160 Despite it being like drought.

00:02:01.720 Oh, yeah.

00:02:02.320 Still, you just need some like shade time.

00:02:05.000 I loved fitting that in into my day.

00:02:07.540 I love solo travelling, so I feel like I've got a good routine.

00:02:11.080 And like every time I go to Europe, I'm like, get a bag of cherries,

00:02:15.800 go to a park, like sit down and read, get an ice cream, you know.

00:02:20.240 You're so good at that stuff.

00:02:21.900 little rituals I feel like anyone with disposable income in a new city they're like they can make

00:02:27.580 do yeah what was your favorite city oh good question I really loved going back to London

00:02:33.740 it was such a fun time and I stayed like in Soho in the theatre district for the first week

00:02:40.040 and then still went around a bit I just think there's something so energetic about the city

00:02:45.940 it was just such a fun time I miss it so much yeah yeah it was so nice being like at a place

00:02:52.340 that I know is so important to you and you're like history with so wife cool thinking of me

00:02:58.820 like the long-lost wife in Australia well how was your past month since we've been back on mic

00:03:04.880 it's been good um I had a little break from some freelance work so I just took a moment to just

00:03:12.280 yeah just exist which was nice i feel like it's just been typical melbourne winter

00:03:17.580 vibes everyone's been kind of hibernating a bit but one thing that i have been doing

00:03:22.700 was going to the melbourne international film festival or myth i smashed it this year normally

00:03:29.220 with these things i get really overwhelmed and i'm like oh i want to see everything so i'll see

00:03:33.360 almost nothing this year i was at the movies every single day for over a week no you weren't

00:03:39.300 i think i went to every cinema in melbourne nearly yeah so many highlights but i'm gonna

00:03:46.020 like trickle them out over bookmarks recommendations um i think i've seen like 20

00:03:51.920 movies this month nearly stop yeah not all myth no but that's amazing and like so many in the

00:03:57.900 cinemas she's a cinema buff buff some would say the 9 15 p.m screenings that's what on a tuesday

00:04:05.980 too i was like this is real cinephile core i will say when i was coming home from london to perth

00:04:13.020 i watched three movies in a row and i feel like no one else has ever watched this combo of three

00:04:18.720 movies are you ready so i started off this is very normal i think this came out this year or

00:04:23.900 last year it's like a sci-fi movie called good luck don't die have fun have you heard of this

00:04:28.740 so quite fun like kind of dystopian adventure-y surreal film a bit tonally similar to everywhere

00:04:37.880 everything all at once I butchered that but you know where I mean then following that guess what

00:04:43.340 I watched Jazz I was excited to tell you about this one like a rom-com no it's from 1935 black

00:04:50.140 and white um hold on let me think on a plane yeah I don't know why I watched this no but I feel like

00:04:56.080 Why are they even showing a movie from 1935 on a plane?

00:05:00.760 Not Metropolis.

00:05:01.940 No, but I do want to watch that one since you recommended it on the podcast.

00:05:06.340 Gaslight?

00:05:07.040 No, I don't even know what that is.

00:05:08.340 Okay, let me just tell you.

00:05:09.600 It was Bride of Frankenstein.

00:05:11.540 I haven't even seen Frankenstein.

00:05:13.660 Like the OG Bride of Frankenstein?

00:05:16.300 The first one, not even the Maggie Gyllenhaal one.

00:05:18.980 And then after that, the last movie was this beautiful Singaporean Chinese film called

00:05:24.860 a good child or the good child and it was this beautiful tender like family drama where it's

00:05:30.420 like a drag queen coming home to take care of um his mom who has dementia so it was so i'm crying

00:05:38.040 i know this is a lot on a plane surely you just watch like this fluffy kind of easy to watch

00:05:46.160 movies that distract you so quickly that you're like hey i'm getting through the hours um i did

00:05:50.500 watch Super Mario whatever galaxy after which was just terrible so that takes a brief but I was in

00:05:56.380 business class baby so I was like I'm enjoying it no wait you have to divulge okay a little bit so

00:06:02.960 I'll be able to talk more about this later but I got sent over there on a brand trip like a press

00:06:07.300 trip but I can't talk about it yet but fear not listeners I will tell you so mysterious and I went

00:06:13.180 to business class for the first time and genuinely I was so excited I was thinking more about that

00:06:17.740 flight and the trip sometimes like before I left and I just had a great time reclining eating all

00:06:23.660 their food it was genuinely such a treat like I kept telling all the flight assistants I was like

00:06:28.580 this is my first time this is my first time and then I got to bring my mum back some pajamas and

00:06:32.860 she was so happy so the Qantas pajamas I should say yeah Australians will know that that is like

00:06:38.460 what is it called like um it's a quite luxury yeah quite luxury it's chic quite luxury it's

00:06:45.480 status symbol here in Australia to have the Qantas pajamas did you fly economy on the way home

00:06:50.920 no they they covered the whole way in in um intercity like to lunch sorry to Amsterdam and

00:06:58.660 Copenhagen I paid for and yeah that was economy fine like one hour or two hours no it's a couple

00:07:03.660 hours isn't it do you think you'll ever be able to fly economy like that's what I would be scared

00:07:07.560 of like once you have that experience how do you go back no I can I can I'm convincing myself I

00:07:12.940 can I will say though flying home it was London to Perth 17 hours I just don't know if I could do

00:07:19.280 that in like a middle seat economy London you did the London to Perth yeah 17 hours how was that

00:07:25.760 it was actually good I guess it's different when you're in like business class and I actually will

00:07:30.240 stop the business class talk because I'm out of touch with the people guys that's it that's all

00:07:34.600 you'll be getting from me while you were away though we had a few interview episodes go up so

00:07:39.240 We had two female authors, Lucianne Tonti, who's the author of Good Witch, and Naomi Ishiguro, who's the author of The Rain Shadow Orphans, which you did a solo remote app just before you left.

00:07:49.200 And then we also had Corey Doctorow on, who is a tech journal and activist.

00:07:54.640 And I'm so proud of all those conversations.

00:07:57.360 I feel like our podcast interviews that we did with them, they were more focused on like bigger topics.

00:08:03.200 So, you know, the one with Lucienne was about feminism and capitalism and witch hunts, whereas Corey's was about like AI and big tech.

00:08:12.060 It was really, it was really fun to conduct.

00:08:15.020 And I think you guys were like listening to them.

00:08:17.160 So if you haven't already, you can dive in whenever.

00:08:20.000 But now we're back on the mic with a pop culture episode.

00:08:22.780 So let's get into it.

00:08:25.320 Number one, cab off the rank.

00:08:27.940 What do you mean role model and Dakota Johnson have broken up?

00:08:30.920 I feel like they were barely together though.

00:08:33.200 Well, were they? Because as we'll talk about, she appeared on one of his songs. And I'm like,

00:08:39.220 that feels like a ring on the finger in the songwriting industry.

00:08:42.640 So Dakota Johnson and role model, whose real name is Tucker Pillsbury, they have split. On August 19,

00:08:48.560 people reported the couple had ended things privately. And a source told the outlet that

00:08:52.960 they split, quote, a while ago, though the insider didn't share any details about when or why they

00:08:58.300 broke up the pair were first spotted together back in december of last year and they've been

00:09:04.140 you know quietly dating for the past six months yeah i am quite surprised by this news because

00:09:11.620 i feel like their relationship did feel really real to me we got pap shots kind of drip fed it

00:09:17.540 wasn't like overly in our faces but then again with this cameo appearance um that she has in

00:09:23.860 his song love I you yes had to reread that to make sure I said that correctly um from his new

00:09:30.240 album um Chuck Timely and the Hourglass I just thought that meant something okay but I feel like

00:09:37.180 with all these celebrity things like a relationship can still mean something just because it was for

00:09:41.240 six months like not everything has to be like oh they were together for years and they get married

00:09:45.540 okay this is a thing I'm like he was with Emma Chamberlain for quite some time that's kind of

00:09:50.520 how I know him first and the fact that she appeared in a music video of his and it's like

00:09:56.040 mainly just shot from behind like you barely see her face until the end and that was years into

00:10:00.960 the relationship that's what I mean I feel like this was like a very explicit kind of stamp of

00:10:07.000 approval of like hey Dakota's in my life she's in my song well the way the cameo appearance came

00:10:11.740 about is it was actually kind of a bit accidental so your theory checks out in an interview with

00:10:17.940 at nylon magazine role model said he'd been hesitant to use dakota's voice in the bridge of

00:10:22.580 the song he said i had a lot of names to pick from for that and then dakota came to the studio

00:10:27.860 one day and mason stoops who is a guitarist and producer was like why don't you do it i was like

00:10:33.620 stop we're not mixing work and relationships she was like i'll do it and stood right up and got in

00:10:39.240 the booth and knocked it out better than we could have imagined so i was like okay if she's down

00:10:43.600 that's an amazing cameo. It is sweet. It is sweet. But I guess that's the end of that. So

00:10:50.320 I am curious to know who else he'll be dating in the future. To be honest, I'm ready.

00:11:04.860 Lena Dunham and Carly Rae Jepsen have teamed up to maximize their joint slay with a 10 things I

00:11:11.200 Hate About You musical. Oh my god. Seeing this news drop I was like I don't really want to go

00:11:16.820 to America but get me to America to see this production. Bully. It's coming to Broadway next

00:11:22.600 year and it's based on the 1999 rom-com that stars Julia Stiles and Heath Ledger. I am actually

00:11:28.260 surprised that they hadn't adapted this into a musical before because you know I've seen

00:11:32.720 Clueless on stage. I've seen Heathers. I've seen like a lot of those kind of 90s rom-coms 1.00

00:11:41.140 dramas of that era and i feel like 10 things i hate about you like does really make sense for

00:11:46.200 the stage or heather's is 80s but what other kind of ones would there so um what's that one that's

00:11:53.880 like problematic um sorry the one um with like the cyst wait no no um there's like a cocaine

00:12:01.680 necklace cruel intentions yes that one anyway there's been a lot of that time so a log line

00:12:08.220 for the broadway show describes 10 things i hate about you as a quote rebellious musical about

00:12:13.520 growing up discovering yourself and refusing to live by others expectations amid the crushes

00:12:18.980 clicks and teenage angst two sisters set out to define themselves on their own terms

00:12:22.920 so very very similar to the movie and i just think that this is in its best hands it could

00:12:30.260 possibly be in i actually am such a big elena dunham fan now more so than ever before dare i

00:12:36.360 say and i think carly ray jepson's pop sensibility will be perfect for this i'm expecting it to be

00:12:42.620 camp fun just super enjoyable to watch dare i say i have a question for you yes do you think that

00:12:49.100 a musical is like the new iteration of the remake because 10 things i hate about you the movie is

00:12:55.000 based on the shakespeare play the taming of the shrew and then it was obviously made into the

00:12:59.020 movie in the 90s and now it's a musical and i feel like there's been a few things like that as

00:13:02.520 well like wicked is a good example good well that was all the way around that was a musical and then

00:13:06.280 the movie but i just think maybe you know like she's the man there were so many shakespearean

00:13:11.020 movies as made in the 90s 2000s based off the the plays that is now the next stage of those

00:13:19.180 great stories from shakespeare back to musicals i'm trying to think of another example that's

00:13:25.740 really followed that line because i think you're right there's definitely like the musical to movie

00:13:30.500 pipeline so you mentioned wicked locally i'm thinking my brilliant career is an interesting

00:13:35.960 one um let me try say my case because it was a 1901 miles franklin novel and then recently got

00:13:43.380 turned into a musical and then now it's a tv show on netflix but i know that the tv show isn't

00:13:51.000 adapted from the musical but i think the hype from the musical like spearheaded this into

00:13:56.820 being created into a tv show so i think tv producers and like musical producers would

00:14:03.320 be like looking at each other's work for sure isn't amazing that miles franklin wrote that book

00:14:07.580 in 1901 yeah and 100 plus years later it's like getting adapted into different things

00:14:12.760 why wouldn't that be crazy if you wrote a book like that and over 100 years later it's still

00:14:17.520 being adapted like imagine telling her in 126 years or whatever this will be adapted into a

00:14:25.340 netflix like tv show she'd be like what people watch it on their phones on the train have you

00:14:31.820 seen the show yet? Not yet. I'm saving it to watch it with a friend who loves a musical. So

00:14:36.540 how about you? It's on my list. On your list. But I haven't started yet. I think I'll start this

00:14:42.980 weekend. There's some literary news that's gone around and it is about Rachel Cusk's new book

00:14:59.080 and the potential rumours that it is about Natalie Portman.

00:15:03.340 Back in July, there was this embargo-breaking report

00:15:06.820 in a publication called Unheard,

00:15:09.460 and it claimed that her new book called Life of M

00:15:12.380 was a, quote, dark portrait of Natalie Portman,

00:15:16.860 who is a long-time fan of Rachel's work.

00:15:20.020 The Telegraph then called the book, quote,

00:15:22.180 cruel and a literary assassination of Natalie Portman.

00:15:26.120 So Rachel is known for her autofiction work,

00:15:29.080 And in The Life of M, the narrator sets out to write the, quote, autobiography of an actress that she is acquaintances with.

00:15:36.660 And for those who don't know, autofiction is like a fictionalized book, but that is drawn from someone's real life experiences.

00:15:44.600 So it kind of blurs a memoir or real life with fiction.

00:15:49.200 Have you read any of Rachel's books before?

00:15:52.080 I have Outline by Rachel on my TBR.

00:15:55.900 It's a really beautiful cover.

00:15:57.000 I think Rachel's really known for these like really aesthetic covers I feel like they're very

00:16:01.440 like literary it girl cool the way I would describe it is like it's usually a photograph

00:16:07.860 and then in bold sans serif like um capitalized text it's like her her name and the title so it's

00:16:15.720 very uh quite like flat flat imagery and it is of a very trending nature at the moment so I haven't

00:16:24.160 actually read read it is to answer your question have you no i haven't but i feel like she always

00:16:30.320 has seemed like this oh i hate using words like this because they are quite empty like cool it

00:16:34.840 girl author okay yes but having this conversation like hit the mainstream and bring in like natalie

00:16:40.140 portman i feel like this has put her into a different uh like playing field so let's talk

00:16:45.820 about why people are saying this book could be about natalie portman so the actress in the novel

00:16:50.520 rose to fame as a child star and has an interest in books she also found the role of a lifetime

00:16:56.180 in a movie about a tortured ballerina i wonder which one that could be yeah in the cut they

00:17:03.700 wrote anyone with a working knowledge of culture could easily identify m as portman over the course

00:17:08.960 of 183 pages cusk reveals all of the ugly bits of m's psyche in what amounts to a quite nasty

00:17:15.400 rendering of portman or a woman who sounds a lot like her as a soulless artist who can't turn off

00:17:20.880 her performance and we did say up top that they you know that natalie was a big fan of rachel's

00:17:26.700 work and actually in both 2022 and 2024 she interviewed rachel about her books as part of

00:17:34.280 her instagram book club so they have definitely spoken before so how do we feel if this is true

00:17:40.820 So what if Rachel has drawn from Natalie Pullman's life for this book?

00:17:45.800 Do we care?

00:17:47.180 Is it a bad thing?

00:17:48.360 Is it okay?

00:17:49.720 I know when you're writing fiction, you're not meant to.

00:17:52.480 Like there's always that disclaimer at the start that's like any depiction of people

00:17:57.240 or places real, like it's all a work of fiction.

00:18:00.640 It could be inspired by, but it's not real.

00:18:03.140 And that's for like copyright and defamation law, I'm assuming.

00:18:05.980 So what I was thinking about this is that the fact that this has made so many headlines

00:18:10.080 in the literary world is it a part of the literary crisis in the u.s like not to deep it like that

00:18:16.380 but i think if it's like oh my gosh this is about natalie portman does everything have to be real

00:18:21.560 does that make sense what do you mean by everything has to be like this is a work of

00:18:26.320 fiction it could be inspired by someone like natalie portman or her or aspects of natalie's

00:18:33.800 career and life but i think that that's fine because fiction is fiction it's just your

00:18:39.160 imagination and you can like you always say like nothing's original yes you can start with an idea

00:18:44.180 like I don't think any authors or writers can just pluck something out of completely thin air

00:18:51.220 um maybe if it's like a science fiction fantasy but even then you're still pulling on like

00:18:56.940 people you know threads from people you know every time we've interviewed an author and asked like

00:19:01.660 oh do your friends and family think it's like okay that you're writing about this thing they're

00:19:05.220 like well yeah it's not real I mean I think this feels quite explicitly tied to Natalie Portman

00:19:11.500 more so than just like oh I'm pulling from you know like female celebrities that are like in

00:19:18.000 the zeitgeist right now I will say at the time of recording the book isn't out yet it's about to

00:19:23.620 drop and it will have been released by the time this episode's gone out so we haven't read this

00:19:28.260 book but from all reports I feel like it's quite explicit and quite heavily borrowed or

00:19:35.300 in not even inspired like I really do feel like it's about Natalie and in my head I don't really

00:19:41.040 care I think that's fine I think it sucks for Natalie and Natalie only like for the general

00:19:47.180 public or her or Rachel's audience who'll be consuming this book it's great entertainment 0.83

00:19:51.980 it just hurts one person at the sent over I think which sucks and it could be considered a dog move

00:19:59.540 and like a mean thing to do but I think it's okay I'm sure Rachel Cusk's publicists are very happy

00:20:07.260 with all of the press this is what sells books sometimes like sometimes when you have a drama

00:20:12.240 like this like for example Yesteryear by Cara Claire Burke that is a in my opinion is a good

00:20:18.620 book but it's had a lot of like publicity and headlines and then people read it because they're

00:20:23.620 like well I want to figure out for myself is this really you know about Ballerina Farm is this book

00:20:28.620 really about Natalie Portman and in the end you sell more books so I'm sure the team at Rachel

00:20:35.000 Cusk's you know publisher are very happy but a source actually told the Telegraph that Natalie

00:20:40.280 is quote more concerned with the state of the world than any drama surrounding the book in

00:20:45.740 another statement another source close to natalie told in touch that she is more focused on the

00:20:52.540 devastation of the fires in france where she lives and on her pregnancy than she is with this book

00:20:57.440 dead why is that embarrassing why is that embarrassing oh my god like just i don't know

00:21:04.300 why i really don't like that it's like that's eye rolling quotes to me because i'm like

00:21:08.400 just pretending that you're like like whatever you are above it all but like having to be like

00:21:12.900 the devastation of the fires in france like i just just don't give a quote just like ignore it

00:21:19.960 ignore it if you don't care interesting well you don't feel the way i don't know why i feel like

00:21:25.140 that when i read i was like yeah fair enough yeah i do think it's rare though that you hear

00:21:30.100 an actress or a celebrity kind of speak to a source and be and almost like clap back yeah

00:21:35.300 like this is just gossip yeah that's why i'm like i think she should have just not said anything or

00:21:40.400 any sources close to her. I shouldn't have said anything.

00:21:53.300 According to social media, everything is chic. But what happens to social media trends when they

00:21:59.560 hit fever pitch and become meaningless? This is what we want to talk about in our big segment of

00:22:06.740 today. First off in our time away, a big social media trend came about and it is quote kind of

00:22:14.620 chic to dot, dot, dot. I don't think I've ever seen a Instagram trend go from like the hottest

00:22:21.000 thing ever. Everyone's doing it to like, if you do this, you're a freaking idiot. What is wrong 1.00

00:22:26.460 with you in my life? And I think this is why we are less of a pop culture podcast these days

00:22:35.280 because everything is even faster like I swear it was like a week or 10 days of like oh everyone's

00:22:41.420 doing this trend it's like cute and fun whatever to like the New York Times is reporting on it

00:22:46.840 everyone is everyone has a take I know we're about to give our own takes but yeah I was quite

00:22:53.420 shocked by the speed of this trend you're so right like you are right there are a lot of social media

00:23:00.380 trends that become super popular but you're but now it's like this personal indictment on you if 1.00

00:23:06.720 you have used this and you're like stupid and you're like a sheep but let's get into it because 0.98

00:23:11.600 we'll we'll get into like all of it it's a big topic and we actually want to talk about a few 0.99

00:23:16.960 different sides of it okay so starting perhaps with trend slop or template slop we'll get into

00:23:23.500 that, as well as trends around text formatting and then actual vocabulary that's being kind of

00:23:30.660 ripped apart at the moment. There was this sub stack that went viral and that was by Berlin

00:23:37.420 based fashion editor and influencer, Brenda Hashtag, real name Brenda Weischer. And this

00:23:42.820 sub stack was called, Oh my God, we're in template slop. She actually got quite a lot of backlash

00:23:49.400 for this. The stand first read, everyone is getting good. No one is getting better. And

00:23:54.180 essentially when I read it, her argument is just like anyone can be a graphic designer slash a

00:24:00.240 writer now, um, or a photographer with these tools that are at our disposal, which in my opinion,

00:24:07.120 that's not a bad thing, but she kind of thinks it is. Um, I have a question for you because her big,

00:24:13.940 I guess thesis argument relied on the point that everyone is using templates like templated content

00:24:20.720 which is like on CapCut it's ready-made templates where you put in your own

00:24:25.020 text and video but it's really like made for you do you use these no I have sometimes played around

00:24:31.640 with them but I can never I just think I'm not good at like graphic design stuff so I if I do

00:24:38.420 try to use them they don't look exactly the way the other girls look and then I get insecure I'm 0.56

00:24:43.600 like well I don't want to I don't want to post like something that's like it's trying to be that

00:24:47.520 but it's not just and so then I just either won't post anything or I'll just post something really

00:24:53.520 simple yeah what about you yeah that's interesting that you say that and I'm glad you've shared

00:24:58.580 so vulnerable but in terms of like the templates no I don't use them because a lot of the time

00:25:05.940 these trends rely on like quick cuts and then text at the top like you can make that yourself

00:25:10.240 and I just make that myself so I was like I don't know maybe everyone is using these templates but

00:25:16.540 I think that's like a big allegation to make and I also struggle with a piece because content

00:25:25.080 trends have been around since bloody the start of social media and the way that she was I guess

00:25:32.080 formatting the piece it was like I struggled through this like I learned how to take photos

00:25:36.520 and make videos so you should struggle too it's like so lazy that people are using these templates

00:25:42.320 sorry I know it sounds like I might be ripping into a bit but I think this article was like

00:25:48.000 everywhere when I when I was traveling and I just I just don't agree with it this new like text on

00:25:56.560 image thing slash kind of chic to trend reminds me of the like it's been around forever forever

00:26:03.480 ever ever this kind of almost meme like social media content yeah because i think these types

00:26:11.400 of posts are one relatable and two they're kind of cloaked in this anonymity where it's like anyone

00:26:18.500 can relate like that could be anyone posting right it's like a piece of a picture with some

00:26:24.380 text on it you can see yourself in that like you could have made that yourself um and there's

00:26:29.340 something like unpolished about it right so you just mentioned um and we talked about it a few

00:26:34.220 weeks ago as well that that trend of having photos with a big text on it and then there's also the

00:26:41.620 the rise of the yellow yellow font or yellow text people are calling it the big yellow font epidemic

00:26:48.540 i've definitely fallen victim to the big yellow text uh in the past six ish months but there was

00:26:56.480 a sub stack by type designer paola casa called how typography is making people famous which was

00:27:02.960 really interesting paola actually read some of the sub stack in their own words on the internet

00:27:08.180 it's not about standing out it's actually about blending in the strategy now seems to be fit in

00:27:14.900 aesthetically use the same formula and this will guarantee you get views while these typography

00:27:21.000 styles may look visually appealing i wonder if we're losing a sense of self when we engage with

00:27:26.220 them. Although I appreciate the style and it feels like it understands design, when I step back and

00:27:32.000 think about it, it doesn't fit my personality whatsoever. As a creator myself, I'm tempted

00:27:37.720 to use this style because it seems to be what works, but it's not me. I would be doing a

00:27:44.240 disservice to my design skills and my own perspective if I participated. That was such a

00:27:49.240 nice perspective I think to read because I think I get thrown into the world of like what's trending

00:27:54.660 on social media sometimes and I'm like oh yes I'll be using this font because that's what everybody

00:27:58.840 is using right now or oh yes this is a font that performs better without thinking about

00:28:04.900 as much about taste but I feel like that's sometimes the name of the game like it's it's

00:28:11.020 a hard thing because I think so many of us try to like cram ourselves to fit social media and not

00:28:17.980 the other way around of like oh how can I use social media in a way that I want it's more like

00:28:22.240 how can I perform for social media and for it to do well for me but don't you think it's all a game

00:28:27.980 anyway that's the name of the game and the algorithms are always changing so therefore

00:28:31.680 we're always chasing like the next thing and it's not even about like oh I created this trend it's

00:28:37.500 like I was a part of this trend and that the algorithm rewarded me and so therefore I like

00:28:42.280 got lots of yeah followers or likes or and that's the name of the game in the end yeah but like it

00:28:48.760 feels like gambling like it feels dirty and a way I was thinking about it and for sure I do like

00:28:55.960 double in these trends but as someone who's been creating content for 14 years now the way I try

00:29:01.820 to look at algorithms and stuff is instead of trying to I think of the algorithm almost like

00:29:08.240 a big ocean it's got massive waves it will go however it wants and I'm not trying to like 0.96

00:29:15.020 to chase the waves I'm not trying to ride every wave because I'm gonna get fucking

00:29:20.740 bashed by the water I'm gonna what's it called when I can't swim so this is a perfect analogy

00:29:25.940 actually um when you get dumped by the waves yeah you'll get dumped but I think if you're doing your

00:29:30.840 own thing and kind of like on your own like floating on the water sometimes for sure the

00:29:36.120 wave will kind of lift you up but oftentimes it won't but I don't think it's worth trying to

00:29:40.960 like swim against the tide to try chase that and i think that's been our philosophy with culture

00:29:46.280 club too you wrote a post on our sub stack recently where we hit 500 followers and you

00:29:53.220 mentioned that like we've been doing this for six years and we've really been like slow and steady

00:29:59.180 and like in our own lane running our own race and while we sometimes have felt the pressure to be

00:30:04.940 like okay we should do like a pop culture roundup every week or every morning and like what's

00:30:10.200 happen overnight in the US and we've just been like no we want to like make the content that we

00:30:15.200 want to make and engage in the trends that we want to engage in and whatever isn't whatever we don't

00:30:20.980 want to do isn't for us and like that's okay we might not grow as quickly as other people or

00:30:25.980 creators or podcasts but if you're doing your own thing on social media the right people will find

00:30:30.800 you is that what you're saying yeah I think so and now I think this conversation has hit a new

00:30:37.020 height with the word chic there has been so much discourse on this word i love this article in

00:30:44.000 british folk last year from may and it was called r.i.p chic the word has finally lost all meaning

00:30:50.420 and that was written by lauren o'neill so lauren writes these days chic has come to be mistaken

00:30:56.520 for certain moneyed strains of taste rather than the sort of unique je ne sais quoi that i think

00:31:02.200 the word at its purest actually means. Are martinis and jauntily branded small plate

00:31:07.200 restaurants, whether you order the same dishes of anchovies and cured meats, regardless of which

00:31:12.080 city you're in, truly chic? Or are they just things that people with a lot of disposable

00:31:16.980 income happen to enjoy currently? It's no wonder that use of this word,

00:31:21.320 which points to stylishness and elegance and a general sense of the elevated, has gone into

00:31:25.960 overdrive in recent times, when everything from what we wear to where we happen to buy our croissants

00:31:30.740 on a Saturday is an opportunity to prove how in tune with what is supposedly cool we are.

00:31:36.120 Chic then has become a way of marking yourself and your activities out as somehow aspirational

00:31:41.000 when really it's all just a millennial and Gen Z version of keeping up with the Joneses, 0.97

00:31:46.600 being seen in the right place, in the right clothes, drinking the right matcha or whatever.

00:31:52.500 That's such a good comparison. It is keeping up with the Joneses, but it's defined as like,

00:31:57.900 i'm doing this for me i'm going to this cafe for me of like because it's kind of chic but it is a

00:32:05.380 trend i don't think there's anything wrong in participating in trends i will go to the hot

00:32:09.300 restaurant i will you know go look at the new store that's just open that everyone's going to

00:32:14.820 but i think it's more about having discernment and i think the older that you get as well

00:32:19.680 the less you care about where everyone's going what everyone's doing um you can still be interested

00:32:27.320 in I think but it's becomes less of like I have to be seen there and more like does this suit my

00:32:35.340 lifestyle is this what I want to be doing do I actually want a croissant from do a bakehouse or

00:32:41.320 are all of the cool girls going there so therefore I want to go there and if it's the latter I think

00:32:45.580 that's also fine and I think with the conversation around the word usage of chic is really I think

00:32:52.600 important too. I struggle with this. It's embarrassing to admit, like as writers and

00:32:58.040 podcasters, I, my brain sometimes wants to pull out the easiest words and that can be chic. That

00:33:04.600 could be cool. That could be it girl, like we said before. And I think it's this constant

00:33:09.060 challenge of trying to extend and flex your vocabulary, especially when it isn't the easiest,

00:33:16.480 like there are easier options at play in front of you. And I've seen different TikToks on this

00:33:20.860 and people are like guys I feel like TikTok has addled my vocabulary and I'm like speaking

00:33:26.660 in very like simplistic terms and we're all using kind of the same slang and like there's something

00:33:32.480 there's something beautiful in slang obviously and it's nice that we can collectively pull from

00:33:37.560 the same references but at the same time I need to check myself like it was so easy earlier this

00:33:42.460 episode to be like oh that's chic oh Jazz has a new drink bottle I said that's so chic I'm like

00:33:47.080 what do I actually mean by that but I feel like there's almost a villainization of the

00:33:53.460 word now like you're kind of you like that what you just said that was like a lot of shame you

00:33:59.020 had a lot of shame in what you just said talking about like the way you use certain words and it's

00:34:04.240 like it's fine it's just a word no but like these words don't mean anything anymore like I think

00:34:09.360 we're being really reductive with our language words chic cool even aesthetics like that's not

00:34:14.840 even what it means like we just throw these words around and they have I allow that words can change

00:34:20.940 meaning that's obviously a normal way of linguistics but I think we're not like thinking

00:34:28.080 before we speak as much and I think especially with the word chic there was this great article

00:34:34.340 called what is chic race aesthetics and the politics of elegance that was written by India

00:34:39.620 low for Liverpool Guild of Students. So this incredible student writer, I think really broke

00:34:45.220 down the issues with the word chic. And I think that's what underpins my, like my discomfort with

00:34:51.820 our usage of it. So India writes, chic is not descriptive, but evaluative. It does not just

00:34:58.120 describe how someone dresses. It determines how closely one aligns with a dominant aesthetic

00:35:03.300 ideal. To be called chic is to be recognized as refined, elegant, and culturally credible within

00:35:09.160 a particular aesthetic framework. That framework, however, is not timeless or universal. It is

00:35:15.640 historically produced and socially reinforced. To be considered chic today often implies

00:35:21.420 participation in a particular visual language, minimalist interiors, understated luxury,

00:35:27.700 and carefully curated effortlessness. However, chic is not only classed, it is also profoundly

00:35:33.500 racialized despite its claims to universality the dominant image of chic is remarkably consistent

00:35:40.200 across magazines brand campaigns and digital culture chic is overwhelmingly embodied by thin 0.97

00:35:47.080 white able-bodied women whose appearance aligns with eurocentric beauty standards

00:35:51.980 this repetition is not incidental it reveals chic as a racialized aesthetic one that quietly

00:35:58.560 positions whiteness as refined neutral and culturally superior I think we did have a

00:36:03.840 similar conversation with quite luxury quite luxury and chic often go hand in hand um but

00:36:10.760 yeah I agree that the word is losing meaning it is becoming like the term aesthetic which used to

00:36:17.320 be like oh we're in a I don't know a neutral aesthetic right now in this studio but now it's

00:36:22.760 Like, this studio is so aesthetic.

00:36:24.640 It's not an adjective, yeah.

00:36:25.520 Yeah.

00:36:26.240 And I think chic is going the same way.

00:36:28.500 I really liked this article in the New York Times called The Slipperness of Chic by Marie Solis.

00:36:34.000 It's just a short, like, essay.

00:36:36.440 And in it, the writer found a definition of chic that resonated with her the most.

00:36:40.520 It was actually from a column printed in 1877 with no name attached to it.

00:36:45.360 And it says,

00:36:46.660 What is chic may, in a sense, be fashionable, but what is fashionable cannot be chic.

00:36:51.580 anybody can wear and do what is fashionable it has the quickness of a hummingbird and the

00:36:56.920 vitality of an eel love that love that yeah it's a nice way to look at it I think everyone would

00:37:03.140 love to be cool or chic but that is an intangible concept like we talked about in our cool girl

00:37:08.640 content episode I think when I was reading some of the quotes I know we pulled from lots of

00:37:13.380 articles today I don't want to feel like we are being like intellectuals that are you know judging

00:37:20.860 yes I'm like talking to myself in this episode as you saw before I know you you pointed out maybe

00:37:26.800 the shame that I was speaking with but I just want to use the English language to the best of

00:37:33.180 my abilities that's literally it and I think language and the way we choose to speak and

00:37:38.400 the words we use really have a direct reflection on our worldview and like our perspective on the

00:37:45.540 world so I that's why I do want to be more I think considered with my language

00:37:50.600 it's now time for bookmarked where we share something we've loved watching reading and

00:38:04.760 listening to this week mags you are first what do you have for us i have a miff film that i

00:38:09.660 watched last night actually and it is called the friend's house is here and this is an iranian

00:38:15.900 American film. It was just released this year, premiered at Sundance, where he actually won the

00:38:22.900 US Dramatic Special Jury Award for Ensemble Cast because a lot of the cast was non-professional

00:38:29.500 actors. The premise of this film is essentially it follows two female best friends and they both

00:38:36.300 make art in different ways from theatre and dance. And it is kind of just about their friendship and

00:38:43.900 their pursuit of art but against a backdrop of war in Tehran and their authoritarian government

00:38:50.340 so in its essence there's so much that I guess we can relate to it's like a really beautiful like

00:38:56.280 funny kind of love story between friends but at the same time it's this like really oppressive

00:39:02.260 government and what I found really interesting was the kind of story behind this so this film

00:39:07.320 was actually made secretively like underground and then it was actually smuggled out of Iran

00:39:13.140 for Sundance I think on a USB I think it might have been the like the DOP who did that so the

00:39:19.700 story behind it I think adds so much weight to it and it was just such a beautiful film look to be

00:39:25.260 honest not sure where you can watch it yet but I think this is just one to keep your eye on if it

00:39:30.180 does hit cinemas or any streaming services that's the thing with myth as well like so many amazing

00:39:35.460 movies and then you're like wait I want to share this oh it's not in Australian cinemas yet but

00:39:39.800 I have a recommendation that was at MIF last year that has now hit Australian cinemas in

00:39:45.100 2026.

00:39:46.120 Yeah.

00:39:46.780 It's called The Chronology of Water and it's Kristen Stewart's directorial debut.

00:39:51.420 So, so good.

00:39:53.120 It's a drama movie which is based on American writer Lydia Yuknovich's 2011 memoir of the

00:39:59.420 same name.

00:40:00.380 There's some really heavy themes in it. 0.99

00:40:02.620 It begins with Lydia growing up in a sexually abusive household.

00:40:06.700 definitely um you know like red flagging it here there actually were a couple of people who

00:40:12.180 walked out who obviously didn't know what i didn't know exactly what it was about it doesn't show the

00:40:17.240 abuse explicitly but it's very very like you know hinted at and there's like the lead up to it and

00:40:22.560 stuff but the story follows lydia after she deals with that she goes to college for competitive

00:40:29.020 swimming and deals with it through sex and drugs and it follows her life uh lydia is played by the

00:40:35.460 British actress Imogen Poots who was great I haven't seen her in anything else it felt like

00:40:42.480 watching someone's whole life play out on a screen in just two hours and so we walked out of the

00:40:46.700 cinema and I was like oh my god I feel like I've lived a whole life it was crazy Kristen Stewart

00:40:52.320 said of the story I first encountered the chronology of water in 2017 and from the very

00:40:59.300 first page I felt its electric current this jagged non-linear journey through trauma and memory was

00:41:04.560 unlike anything I'd ever read. I wanted this movie to feel like a game of hot potato, too hot to

00:41:09.580 touch. I wanted a film that pulses with immediacy and to remind every person in the theater that

00:41:14.120 your narrative is yours to rewrite. My hope is that audiences leave understanding that reclaiming

00:41:19.180 your voice through writing, through art, through simply telling your own story is an act of radical

00:41:23.600 power. And I do think that Kristen achieved that with this movie. It was really beautiful,

00:41:28.480 beautiful cinematography a great story my only criticism is that they didn't age the character

00:41:35.460 the actress up at all so it's meant to be over like 30 years and she's had a hard life right

00:41:40.560 like she's abused drugs and alcohol as well um and she still looks like this model and she's

00:41:45.920 meant to be like you know nearly middle-aged so that kind of took me out of the story a little

00:41:50.040 bit but overall a beautiful beautiful movie i'd probably only watch it once just because it's one

00:41:56.220 those things you only need to watch once but i'd recommend and it's in australian cinemas now

00:42:01.280 thank you wow that is a heavy recommendation but you watched it last year and it still stayed with

00:42:06.420 you now no i watched it this like it was at myth last year but i didn't watch it last year and i

00:42:12.120 watched it just last week okay oh that is so lovely though so thank you for that wreck but

00:42:17.040 noted with its heavy theme as well that does bring us to the end of this culture club episode

00:42:22.280 thank you so much for tuning in if you have enjoyed this one make sure to give us a little

00:42:27.480 rate and review on whatever you're watching this on and we are so excited to chat with you again soon

00:42:34.620 bye

Culture Club - August 24, 2026

The “Kinda Chic” & Yellow Font Epidemic, Plus Role Model’s Break-Up & Auto-Fiction Ethics

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