Culture Club - The Moral Panic-ification Of Olivia Rodrigo’s Babydoll Dress, Shein Buys Everlane & The Endless Shilling of AI

00:00:00.000 Shein buys sustainable brand Everlane, celebrity women are shilling AI and unpacking the moral

00:00:12.140 panic of Olivia Rodrigo's baby doll dress. I'm Maggie Zhao and I'm Jasmine Wallace and you're

00:00:18.140 listening to Culture Club where two writers and editors chat about pop culture, current affairs,

00:00:23.400 the internet and our lives. Today we're on the lands of the Wurundjeri Wurrung people of the

00:00:32.680 Kulin Nations. We would like to pay our respects to elders past and present and extend this to any

00:00:38.680 Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander listeners today. You and I were messaging this morning

00:00:47.700 about this record we're recording from home today which we haven't done in months and I was saying

00:00:54.040 like how much I miss you because we've been so codependent lately but then you've been in Sydney

00:00:58.860 for fashion week yes I just came back from Sydney for fashion week and it was probably the most

00:01:05.900 intense fashion week I've had over there in a really fun way like I think it was probably one

00:01:10.940 of the weeks I enjoyed the most best fashion uh really good energy but I was also like working

00:01:16.500 so much so yeah it felt like a mammoth week and I saw you were doing stuff like for content and

00:01:23.600 you're doing stuff for broadsheet so you were really like all over going to every show it

00:01:28.320 looked fun though and I feel like there was less drama this year than previous years I feel like

00:01:34.240 usually the drama points to two things one diversity which was so lackluster this year

00:01:40.120 I feel like it's almost just become a common part of especially Australian Fashion Week that people

00:01:44.960 don't talk about it as much because yeah size diversity disability diversity is all so lacking

00:01:51.020 and vox pops usually pick up some bad traction but I do think a lot of publications and influences

00:01:59.360 were more acutely aware of it this year so there were less spicy questions yes there was so much

00:02:05.800 drama about that last year so I think it was good that people were focusing on the fashion and the

00:02:11.820 runways and the australian designers this year um it looks really fun and we said goodbye in sydney

00:02:18.740 because we actually went away together the week before to the cook islands culture club's first

00:02:25.520 brand trip i can't believe it we got to go overseas we were overseas it just felt so surreal

00:02:33.040 to be invited and to be like on a trip together that was like kind of half worky half fun i mean

00:02:39.020 the whole trip was very fun we went over with Jetstar we were in a group of 10 other creators

00:02:44.700 everyone else was also in a pair so we were with we were with Luke and Sassy Scott Olivia and Ashley

00:02:50.460 Mesa we got the chocolates podcast and Michael Drake and Johnny Charles so these are creators

00:02:56.660 from like such different realms of ours in the Australian landscape like some of them do challenge

00:03:02.640 content some of them do skit content some of them do comedy content so it was actually really cool

00:03:07.880 to be in a group um that was so different to the usual melbourne bubble we find ourselves in yes

00:03:14.260 it helped us get out of our echo chambers a bit meet some new people and we were there for six

00:03:19.340 days we landed in rarotonga and it was pretty much go go go we also did a day trip to itutaki

00:03:26.540 which was incredible that was another island just off rarotonga we had to get into like a small

00:03:32.660 plane to get there was only like 40 minute flight uh sorry I'm laughing because Mag struggled a bit

00:03:39.260 yeah I got really what's it called plane sick or whatever nauseous and I was just like holding on

00:03:46.820 for dear life I was like thank god this is only 40 minutes I was almost like land the plane

00:03:51.160 wherever we are in the middle of the pacific ocean that's where we could land I was actually

00:03:56.760 so fine i i didn't i didn't nothing nothing happened if that makes sense i didn't vomit

00:04:03.300 so it's okay no one else was sick too so you just looked a little green

00:04:08.500 but that's a side note of all the adventure that we had um when we got to the airport in

00:04:16.380 we like flew overnight because we went by sydney we flew overnight we landed really early sunday

00:04:23.580 morning so we like went back in time which was cool but we got given these little hire cars

00:04:29.000 because the island is so small that you can just drive around the whole radius of the island in

00:04:34.700 about 40 minutes yeah and my favorite thing is that there's just one main road in Rarotonga

00:04:40.140 and they have one bus route right but there's two buses and they're called clockwise and

00:04:47.320 anti-clockwise. I feel like that paints a picture of how small the island is. There's about 10,000

00:04:53.940 people living on it. So our trip really was a blend of culture and relaxation. It was a little

00:04:59.960 rainy, like rainier than we thought it was going to be for like a tropical holiday vibe, but we

00:05:04.560 definitely still like made the most of it. So we did snorkeling. We did a day trip with Coco Lagoon

00:05:12.040 cruises where we were on a boat and we went out to a little coral reef we did some snorkeling there

00:05:19.280 then we went to an island and we had traditional cook islands lunch and we learned from the locals

00:05:25.980 as well they showed the audience how to like climb a coconut tree and how to husk a coconut

00:05:31.960 um there was like some traditional dancing and fashion as well so it was like a real

00:05:37.260 spectrum of like cultural experiences as well and didn't you just find the water was so warm like

00:05:44.200 it was like a bath even if it was raining like it was so warm and so blue I don't think I've ever

00:05:48.920 seen water that blue and it wasn't because it was being reflected by the sky because it was

00:05:53.140 pretty gloomy sky at times it was pretty good and like for listeners who don't know I can't really

00:05:58.980 swim okay and for more context I did do swimming lessons okay don't put that on me but I was really

00:06:05.960 wanting to give everything a go and with that snorkeling on that day tour it was amazing I wore

00:06:11.880 a life jacket I had a pool noodle and I had one of the boys that were working on the cruise literally

00:06:18.220 be my personal like chauffeur in the water I was just like holding on to him and it'd just be taking

00:06:22.920 me around and that was so fun and it didn't make me feel like embarrassed or whatever either um

00:06:30.080 so i feel like it was nice to be embraced in that way yeah i was so proud of you i didn't really

00:06:36.380 know i don't hope you don't mind talking about this on the podcast but i didn't really know that

00:06:40.520 you couldn't swim because i've been to the beach with you but then i was thinking about it and it's

00:06:46.680 always been like waiting and like kind of you know maybe up to your hips like to your waist yes but

00:06:52.980 like get jumping into like off a boat in the middle of the ocean that could have been really

00:06:57.200 intimidating and you embraced it and you challenged yourself we also on the ititake day trip we went

00:07:04.160 snorkeling and it was really choppy like really warm beautiful weather but it was very windy so

00:07:09.800 it was choppy and you jumped off the pontoon still with your life jacket jumped off is a stretch guys

00:07:14.960 I literally like sat my ass down and like wriggled into the water but then I you like called it like

00:07:21.940 you knew your limits so that was that was great and everyone on all the tours was so accommodating 0.63

00:07:27.000 of you as well including our jet star host so i think you challenged yourself we also did a sewing

00:07:33.880 class you might have seen on our reels maggie made a really funny reel of like us going on a

00:07:39.940 kind of bus party bus the night before and then going sewing the next day and we learned some

00:07:45.980 traditional sewing which is called to vibe yeah that was so much fun it was a needle stitch class

00:07:51.220 that was supposed to only go for like an hour and we ended up staying there for two hours because we

00:07:56.180 were so entranced and then the thing is on the flight back to Sydney both you and I brought like

00:08:02.540 our pillowcases and needle and stitch and we're doing it on the plane so whimsical mine was

00:08:09.020 because when I didn't have like the traditional elder like sitting next to me I was struggling

00:08:13.500 so bad on the plane back like I broke my needle at one point and then I borrowed yours I showed

00:08:19.540 some of our like content creator friends when we landed back in Sydney and someone was like oh my

00:08:24.500 god it's terrible but that's not the point the point is you know that we we learned something

00:08:29.380 new we learned about uh traditional culture and we had fun we had so much fun and jazz you put

00:08:35.740 together a really nice carousel of some of the things we learned on culture club's instagram

00:08:40.580 so take a look at that if you want to learn more it's really exciting because with jet star you

00:08:45.640 can now fly direct to rorotonga from sydney and brisbane now the flight over there was only like

00:08:51.200 five hours for us which is so short and it felt incredible to be submerged into like a new culture

00:08:57.620 new country new environment after just like a short flight away that's what i've been saying

00:09:02.780 to most people when they've been asking me how the trip was because it was only five and a half

00:09:06.380 hours which if you're australian that is a short flight like to get to a foreign country to go on

00:09:11.520 an international trip that is short we are so used to spending like minimum 15 hours to get

00:09:17.480 to like another country so being able to fly Jetstar which is the more affordable airline in

00:09:21.980 Australia and getting there in only five and a half hours made it feel like really accessible

00:09:27.160 and I'm definitely already talking to my family about booking a trip back because it just kind of

00:09:33.640 had everything like relaxation beachfront you could like do your own snorkeling at the front

00:09:39.960 like along the hotel we were staying out so sometimes like I would go out and like do a

00:09:44.160 little snorkel around while Mags like stayed in the hotel and chilled out so I think you could 0.97

00:09:49.260 also like design your own holiday and I think the fact that you it's recommended that you hire a car 0.78

00:09:54.260 too we were really like independent I feel yeah weirdly like I'd never been to a place like that

00:10:00.640 but it almost felt familiar in a way like I felt so comfortable there and it does feel like a place

00:10:06.380 I'll be returning to I don't know like that's such an interesting feeling because I don't get that

00:10:10.760 much when I'm traveling to a new place but it just had this nice ease to it and yeah I'm like

00:10:16.560 you I love a budget airline like I'm so used to traveling on a budget and it just means that you

00:10:22.780 have more money to spend while you're there so we got a few massages as well we will leave a link

00:10:28.380 in our show notes for you to check out Jetstar's cheap lights to Rarotonga yourself and we highly

00:10:34.360 recommend. Thanks so much Jetsa for having us. A nice side effect of being away for the last two

00:10:49.840 weeks is that I've essentially been out of the discourse. I haven't really been keeping up with

00:10:54.740 what's been happening in the pop culture news cycle but since arriving back in Melbourne I

00:11:00.560 I have been seeing a few quick headlines that have piqued my interest.

00:11:06.180 One of those is a new celebrity couple potentially being spotted in Cannes, Mary Beth Barone and Lucas Bravo.

00:11:14.560 This is a celebrity pairing that I would never have picked.

00:11:18.340 Like I never would have put these two together in the same room, but I still love it.

00:11:22.980 So Lucas Bravo is known for his work in Emily in Paris, while Mary Beth Barone is the co-host of Ride, the podcast with Benito Skinner, and the TV series Overcompensating also with Benito Skinner.

00:11:35.440 They were seen spending some one-on-one time together during the Cannes Film Festival.

00:11:41.260 There was a video as well, which I don't know if you've seen, of Lucas stroking Mary Beth's back and refers to her in the caption, like the video refers to her in the caption as a girlfriend.

00:11:51.180 okay but like he didn't say that no no the video published by paris match on tiktok said that and

00:11:57.060 according to people magazine they were also spotted again a few days later on the 14th of

00:12:01.020 may there's something about this that just feels like a blurring of like the internet age and like

00:12:05.620 real celebrities and i'm not saying that to like be judgy in the same way that role model and

00:12:11.600 dakota johnson feel funny in my head obviously role model musician in his own right he doesn't

00:12:17.840 obviously just exist for the TikTok generation but I'm like hang on a second you guys feel so

00:12:24.220 so separate in my head yeah totally different worlds and I also think maybe it's also like a

00:12:30.220 French actor versus like American like comedian who kind of has like a an average background I

00:12:36.660 don't know what Lucas's Bravo background is but you know like average meaning like working class

00:12:41.260 or like she started doing improv at uni and now she's like a famous celebrity I think that's

00:12:47.160 maybe what it is but I like this pairing and I also just like seeing more of Mary Beth around I

00:12:53.460 think she's like so talented so funny I like lap anything that she does up so love this for them

00:12:58.380 on another note right speaking about like these TikTok celebs who are entering the mainstream

00:13:03.780 there's another TikToker I want to talk about he is both a TikToker as well as an actor

00:13:08.500 Joe Ando Hirsch he's known for his videos making those custom dresses for celebrities have you

00:13:14.680 seen him on your for you page yes I've been following Joe since the pandemic when he was

00:13:20.300 making dresses for his girlfriend at the time the influencer Niamh Adkins I was a bit parasocial

00:13:26.760 with them both I just followed both their accounts and I remember seeing their videos constantly so

00:13:31.880 it feels kind of nice to see his like rise to fashion success yeah oh my gosh no Tom and I

00:13:39.480 were definitely parasocial with them and I hate saying it I'm like oh yeah their breakup kind of

00:13:44.940 did hit me hard anyway it's weird it's fine do whatever you want they've obviously both moved

00:13:50.000 on it's been a few years now but we're talking about him now because he actually got himself

00:13:54.420 a New York Times profile because he's actually launching his own ready-to-wear women's wear

00:14:00.420 label so over the past few years we've seen him dress celebrities like Dakota Johnson shout out

00:14:05.840 for the second time Dakota Odessa Azion and Leve and now he's yeah got his own label coming out

00:14:12.800 it is called Joe Ando obviously it's his namesake label and it's been inspired by his Japanese

00:14:19.580 American heritage we've seen some snippets come out and it's very quite like preppy lots of like

00:14:25.500 wait what's that Troy Bolton top called? Troy Bolton? You know there's like baseball isn't

00:14:30.620 just a baseball top like those varsity baseball three-quarter length tops you know that? Yeah

00:14:35.680 I always just call it Troy Bolton top.

00:14:37.680 That's so funny.

00:14:38.920 You call them Troy Bolton tops.

00:14:41.580 You just mean like, yeah, baseball shirts?

00:14:44.620 Let me see.

00:14:45.700 Baseball top.

00:14:48.100 Yes.

00:14:49.480 Baseball tee.

00:14:51.360 But for instance, Joe has a take on that.

00:14:53.960 It looks like it's made out of silk or satin or something.

00:14:56.080 And it's like a baseball dress in that kind of very mini dress in that kind of shape.

00:15:03.380 So, yeah.

00:15:04.480 and we kind of love to see people branching out and doing their own thing it reminds me a bit of

00:15:09.120 Addison Rae like being a TikTok star during the pandemic and people underestimate underestimating

00:15:14.780 her or not taking people seriously just because they got their start on TikTok but like you know

00:15:19.800 six years later it's like these are the people with influence who are like coming up in the

00:15:24.780 different industries yes but also because he has built his whole following around fashion this

00:15:30.460 makes sense because I totally understand the skepticism that comes out when like a random

00:15:35.120 TikToker makes another skincare line or whatever, right? So we love to see the backing and passion

00:15:40.880 that's there. Also in fashion news, the sustainable American fashion label Everlane has sold to Shein.

00:15:49.560 I can't believe it. The news broke kind of today and I was shocked because Everlane has been known

00:15:57.080 to be kind of a loud voice in the sustainability space it was founded back in 2011 and it was

00:16:04.860 built on quote fashioning a better future and they were like very heavy heavy on the sustainability

00:16:11.560 marketing messaging they have three pills of sustainability that were keep earth clean

00:16:16.520 keep earth cool and do right by people and it began as a direct to consumer menswear label

00:16:22.200 and you could actually see like how much each item cost to produce and how big the company's

00:16:28.200 markup was for like a t-shirt or whatever. And in 2018, the company pledged to stop using

00:16:33.860 new plastics by 2021. They also created a line of outerwear that was made from recycled plastic

00:16:40.780 bottles and also a shoe made out of recycled plastic bottles. So this news was broken by

00:16:46.420 the fashion journalist Lauren Sherman of Park. And I think it's probably one of the most shocking

00:16:52.420 fashion news updates of 2026 so far. It's so depressing and I really, really do feel like

00:16:59.300 it's a sign of the times. I also think it's interesting to see that Sheehan is interested

00:17:04.460 in acquiring other businesses. I feel like this is probably one of the first stepping stones and

00:17:10.620 we will see more of this the deal valued everlane at 100 million usd and it was approved by the

00:17:19.120 board just on saturday so i don't think this will be the last of sheehan's takeovers we saw this

00:17:25.340 with like pretty little thing like boohoo group the conglomerate owns so many other fast fashion

00:17:31.040 places obviously this is more shocking because of everlane's sustainability credentials but

00:17:38.120 it's such a sad a sad story for the fashion industry are you laughing because you're like

00:17:44.720 sad yeah I'm like this is so dystopian like that was like nervous laughter you're like yeah I'm

00:17:51.080 like uh-oh uh-oh what does this mean I mean we saw Stella McCartney also collaborate with H&M

00:17:56.280 again so it's just like we get to a point where perhaps we're not surprised by these stories

00:18:08.120 An interesting cultural shift is happening in the US at the moment as AI is constantly being

00:18:16.480 rammed down the throat of university graduates. In the past month, we have seen two university

00:18:22.600 commencement speeches receive booing after bringing up artificial intelligence. Remember

00:18:28.600 those days where university speeches were like the video on YouTube, like the inspirational video?

00:18:35.020 yeah it has changed my the ones i remember like lisa kudrow and like robin williams and they

00:18:41.300 were so inspiring they're like just go out in the world and do good and be your best self and now

00:18:46.260 they're like you all need to adopt ai or you're gonna get left behind and you're like what the

00:18:51.580 hell they truly feel like a marketing platform for these businesses because let's talk about

00:18:57.500 one of them so um at the university of central florida they had i would actually die if this 0.84

00:19:04.240 if someone like this came out a real estate development executive named gloria caulfield

00:19:09.740 i'm so sorry i would walk out also a real estate development executive and she was actually

00:19:15.660 speaking to the humanities graduates okay like what make it make sense so she spoke about the

00:19:22.280 rise of ai and how that's supposedly like the next industrial revolution and she said that we're

00:19:29.100 living in a time of profound change that's true yeah but the crowd was so loud when they started

00:19:35.900 booing that gloria paused and kind of like looked around being like what's going on and then she

00:19:41.660 continued you've probably seen the video going around it's been very viral gloria said only a

00:19:47.880 few years ago ai was not a factor in our lives and the audience applauded that fact gloria also

00:19:53.440 compared ai to the internet revolution that was taking place when she graduated you know probably

00:19:58.760 20 30 years ago and said there were some of the same trepidations and concerns we are now facing

00:20:04.360 but ultimately it was a game changer for global economic development and the proliferation of new

00:20:09.600 businesses she actually when the booing and applause um was kicking off she was like oh

00:20:15.900 we've got a bipolar topic here which is just so incorrect we do not use mental illnesses as like

00:20:23.160 throwaway lines like that and i feel like that just also shows how out of touch she is

00:20:29.360 yeah especially again speaking to a humanities cohort that was one of the first you know anti-ai

00:20:37.640 university graduate moments and then last week the former google ceo eric schmidt also gave a speech

00:20:45.800 a university commencement speech at the university of arizona so eric kind of spoke about his work

00:20:52.540 at Google and like building what we now know to be as Google, like so prominent. I'm literally

00:20:58.080 reading off a Google document right now. It's obviously one of the biggest companies in the

00:21:02.780 world. So I think that was like, you know, the inspirational angle. But again, he starts talking

00:21:08.580 about AI. Eric said, we thought we were adding stones to a cathedral of knowledge that humanity

00:21:14.100 had been constructing for centuries, but the world we built turned out to be more complicated than we

00:21:19.640 anticipated the same tools that connect us also isolate us the same platforms that gave everyone

00:21:25.440 a voice like you're using now degraded the public square he added in the years after i graduated

00:21:31.560 no one sat down and resolved to build technology that would polarize democracies and unsettle a

00:21:37.120 generation of young people that was not the plan but it happened i know what many of you are feeling

00:21:43.500 about that i can hear you there is a fear and like while he's saying that the shouts intensified

00:21:49.860 he continued there is a fear in your generation that the future has already been written that

00:21:55.720 the machines are coming that the jobs are evaporating that the climate is breaking that

00:22:00.620 politics are fractured and that you are inheriting a mess that you did not create eric called those

00:22:05.840 fears quote rational but encouraged the graduates to adapt to the technology and become involved in

00:22:12.220 shaping how it's going to be used in the future and he says this line that we are hearing more

00:22:17.340 and more when it comes to artificial intelligence that is the question is not whether ai will shape

00:22:22.680 the world it will the question is whether you will have shaped artificial intelligence i mean

00:22:28.200 i kind of get it to an extent because whether somebody chooses to engage or like consciously

00:22:35.000 disengage with ai it doesn't stop ai from happening to the rest of the world and i guess

00:22:41.680 like people working in these industries will be the ones who will be shaping how AI you know comes

00:22:48.200 about in our lives but it also feels quite like futile like well I can't do anything about that

00:22:54.180 like I kind of agree what he's saying like it is up to us to shape AI regardless if you want to or

00:23:01.780 not yeah like I don't think there's any fully opting out like even when we're researching for

00:23:09.040 things you research on Google like we've been taught since primary school and it gives you an

00:23:13.160 AI overview so like that definitely is you know AI is here etc but it does feel like a bubble

00:23:19.280 at the moment and I don't we weren't alive during or like cognizant during the like internet

00:23:25.140 revolution so it's interesting that the real estate exec Gloria said that it kind of feels

00:23:31.060 the same and you know we did see like the Y2K bug and the fears around computers and the internet

00:23:36.700 and the dot-com bubble bursting so I think this could be the same and then it might ease up of

00:23:42.160 like just become another tool like the internet is but it definitely is especially in America

00:23:48.160 it feels like an arms race or something and we are not like technology writers but you can't deny

00:23:53.920 that like anytime you go on social media at the moment this is the topic of conversation. I don't

00:23:58.200 think it's an accident that it feels like we're being sold AI never with the other kind of

00:24:03.800 innovations that you mentioned, has global economics been so tied to the success of AR?

00:24:10.760 So much money has been poured and invested into this new arena that if it doesn't succeed,

00:24:17.900 there is like tangible, like astronomical economic repercussions of that. So I feel like that's

00:24:25.140 another aspect of it that makes it feel so big at this time. So these university speeches also

00:24:31.200 occurred in the same month where we've seen really high profile white wealthy female celebrities

00:24:36.940 including Reese Witherspoon, Mel Robbins, Sandra Bullock, Sophia Amoruso and Demi Moore urging

00:24:43.120 women to adopt AI tools. Angeline Chapin wrote for The Cut and the title is The Girl Bossification

00:24:49.700 of AI which we will link in the show notes as per usual but in the article she talks about this 0.84

00:24:56.520 kind of like rush of yeah like these female celebrities urging and like creating this real 1.00

00:25:02.300 it's almost like a fear-mongering creating this like fear of missing out thing for I guess they're 1.00

00:25:08.020 speaking mostly to like middle-class educated women like who are on the Instagram pages about

00:25:14.040 the importance of AI so Angeline wrote in mid-April Reese Witherspoon took to Instagram to deliver a 0.77

00:25:19.820 message it's time to start using AI she told her 30 million followers she was shocked to discover

00:25:25.180 only three of the 10 women in her book club said they had used the technology. Even though women's

00:25:30.880 jobs are three times more likely to be replaced by AI than men's are, she pointed out so far men

00:25:36.980 are more likely to embrace it. I think we should learn some really good tools that are going to

00:25:40.760 make our everyday lives easier and better, she said leaning towards the camera. Do you want me

00:25:45.100 to share what I'm learning with you? She spoke with the warm but firm tone of a C-suite exec

00:25:50.280 telling the new girl how to impress in a boardroom meeting. We are now seeing the girl boss 0.84

00:25:54.800 diversification of AI as famous women try to convince other women that adopting the technology

00:25:59.640 isn't just the best thing they can do for their careers. It's the only way to survive. 1.00

00:26:04.260 So Reese did receive a lot of backlash for this. We won't go fully into it, but there was so much

00:26:09.840 backlash that Reese made a post a few days after this video saying that no one is paying her to

00:26:14.900 talk about it and that she doesn't believe computers should replace humanity. Meanwhile,

00:26:19.380 Mel Robbins was really heavily criticized because Mel was actually encouraging her audience of

00:26:24.840 women to feed their private financial information, including bank statements into an AI generator

00:26:31.520 called Copilot. The internet was definitely up in arms saying like, please don't do this. And I 1.00

00:26:36.880 agree, like if something is free, like if a chat GBT or like an AI tool is for free, it's because

00:26:42.580 it's like taking your data and it's going to sell it to the highest bidder. So if you're putting

00:26:47.140 your bank statements into AI to each their own I'm not like telling anyone what to do I'm not an

00:26:53.020 expert on this but there does seem something that like really flippant about that coming from

00:26:58.380 wealthy women such as Mel Robbins and I think it's interesting to see that this slate of

00:27:04.060 celebrity women that we're mentioning right now are middle age and I think there's that fear of

00:27:11.440 getting behind the times and being left behind by technology and I totally understand that fear

00:27:18.740 to some regards but to me when it comes out in a way that's like almost panicky like okay we need

00:27:25.200 to like catch up and we need to learn all this it almost mimics a way that tech companies are

00:27:30.980 rolling out this like AI arms race that it's like just race to the bottom right like we just

00:27:35.800 we're all rushing for like out of fear almost and I just don't think that this is the way that

00:27:42.320 we should be approaching it totally agree Angeline finished the article by writing

00:27:47.300 AI won't stop robots from replacing receptionists and it certainly won't solve gender inequality

00:27:53.360 even the girl bosses themselves don't seem that idealistic about what they're selling this time

00:27:58.780 the message is less that AI can help women have it all and more that it might help them not

00:28:04.020 backslide. The new ambition isn't to keep scaling new heights. It's to cling to what you already

00:28:09.600 have. Love that. Should adult women wear baby doll dresses? That's a convo the internet has

00:28:25.260 been having around Olivia Rodrigo's recent outfits. Now we know that this discourse really

00:28:31.340 kicked off a couple weeks ago but we've got a nice bird's eye view of the situation that we're

00:28:36.180 going to unpack with you today. So we were like away when this kicked off and then you were in

00:28:41.140 Sydney and we had like an interview episode come out and I was just watching all of the takes like

00:28:46.600 slowly on every single platform, every influencer. I know that we are now podcast talking about this

00:28:53.140 but I don't know if there's ever been like a fashion story, like a celebrity fashion story

00:29:00.100 that has created this much like hectic discourse in a long long time I was like everyone has like

00:29:06.080 a really hard take about this there was so many op-eds articles to wade through for this like

00:29:12.740 usually when we're researching you know we'll read like a few articles I had like 10 tabs open

00:29:18.040 there were like first person like opinion pieces and like in-depth fashion history kind of analysis

00:29:24.740 which I loved but you're right I feel like it's been a while since that this has happened

00:29:29.540 so for the people who are not as online what actually happened can you please tell us

00:29:35.400 so it came out in a few parts but number one the music video for drop dead was released so in the

00:29:42.160 music video for drop dead she's wearing a lilac chemise and frilled bloomers they're part of the

00:29:48.500 chloe pre-fall 2026 collection and you know from the outside um especially as part of the music

00:29:55.360 video you know she's like waking up in bed they're very nightgown lingerie inspired sleepwear

00:30:01.580 inspired right i feel like the discourse really kicked off when she performed in barcelona and

00:30:06.880 she was wearing a baby doll dress it was this floral generation 78 number and it had like

00:30:13.220 ribbon detailing lace frills and matching bloomer shorts and she was wearing that with a knee height

00:30:19.680 Doc Martin boots so a photo was published to X with the caption maybe I'm too woke and that has

00:30:25.980 received 24 million views and I guess that tweet is kind of what kicked off the discourse of like

00:30:31.640 is this appropriate so I saw this X video come up on my feed and it did catch my attention I did

00:30:39.020 think okay like this is a bit racy obviously Olivia is in her early 20s she's a performer 0.91

00:30:44.440 she's allowed to do whatever she wants but I think it's the juxtaposition of like the outfit 0.56

00:30:49.320 it is very girly. Like it's very, you see children wearing those outfits and she's a former Disney

00:30:56.220 star. And I know that take is like 15 years old. We did it all with Miley Cyrus, but I think it's

00:31:02.040 when she's like crawling on the floor and kind of like trying to be seductive. And she like

00:31:06.300 lifts up the little dress and you see these bloomers that are super, super cute, but she's 1.00

00:31:11.060 trying to be sexy. And so that juxtaposition is what has made people be like, what the hell?

00:31:16.480 and it's created this like massive massive discourse about baby doll dresses and I agree

00:31:22.900 with you I think on first glance my brain was like oh I'm not 100% sure about this because fashion

00:31:29.980 is you know fashion is political it makes us think a lot of the time fashion is allowed to

00:31:34.560 challenge us right and it's not just like an instant take like you feel like you like it or

00:31:38.320 you don't like it it sometimes sits in this in-between gray area so what I mean by that is

00:31:43.240 I think that people's first instance where they might feel a little bit uncomfortable perhaps

00:31:47.420 with seeing this is fine but I think you're allowed to you're supposed to unpack that more

00:31:52.580 perhaps you know read up more about the history of baby doll dresses or just unpack your opinions

00:31:59.000 and your thoughts and your preconceived ideas a bit more rather than jumping to the comment section

00:32:04.380 being like she's uh what is it like they were calling her pedophile bait like you know yeah

00:32:09.900 and like glorifying pedophilia essentially like that was a huge i think that's a huge jump

00:32:17.280 i know that we live in a post epstein files world but i don't know if you could say olivia

00:32:24.200 rodrigo is doing that but can you talk through the history of the baby doll dress of course so

00:32:30.660 the baby doll dress was created in the 1940s in the u.s it was actually during world war ii that

00:32:37.440 they became quite short right it was a response to fabric shortages and the baby doll silhouette

00:32:42.980 continued to become more popular in the late 50s and 60s we saw stars like Bridget Bardot

00:32:49.900 Twiggy and Jane Birkin really champion this silhouette and like baby doll dresses I'm sure

00:32:56.040 you've seen pics now but it just means that it's a short loose dress it's got an empire waist which

00:33:02.500 means like um it gathers essentially under bust and then flows out and that's literally it and

00:33:09.520 olivia has also been sported in matching bloomers a lot and actually the history of them is really

00:33:14.940 interesting too they were part of the suffragette movement then let's go to the 90s i feel like

00:33:19.740 jazz you should take it from here because you're like you're a resident punk girl if i don't know

00:33:26.080 i feel like you're the resident music girl that's what i want to say i will take that okay in the 0.99

00:33:31.860 90s, the baby doll dresses were embraced by female punk icons. One we've seen a lot this past few 0.97

00:33:38.540 weeks is Courtney Love of Hole. She is in the punk band Hole and is famously Kurt Cobain of

00:33:45.160 Nirvana's ex-partner. She has been compared a lot in this discourse. Olivia Rodrigo also said in

00:33:51.900 Vogue this month that she loves the idea of a baby doll dress. So she really is like claiming

00:33:56.900 the baby doll dresses like her style but she said she was influenced by the likes of Courtney Love

00:34:02.440 and Kat Beliend of the 90s alternative rock band Babes in Toyland and this is a thing I think this

00:34:09.060 is actually such pivotal information to this conversation that Olivia was really inspired by

00:34:15.220 these punk icons because I'm the first to say that I take everything like too seriously right like

00:34:21.740 I grew up in the internet generation oh like things are that deep and for sure we've seen

00:34:28.340 fashions trends lean way more conservative in recent years and we should be criticizing that

00:34:34.440 we look at trends like quite luxury and what they mean in terms of politics so I'm not saying to

00:34:41.360 never associate the two but I think in this case when we see the references she's actually pulling

00:34:47.380 from it makes a lot of sense she's yeah she's not dressing like a baby you know she's not

00:34:54.120 dressing like a baby but in this discourse a lot of people have also like people always compare her

00:34:59.520 to sabrina carpenter right because they were at disney in the same era um there was a whole love 0.76

00:35:05.260 triangle that's where the influence of driver's license came from inspiration of driver's license

00:35:09.360 came from etc they're always compared and people really see like sabrina has really leaned into

00:35:14.880 like owning her sexuality you know she's got the song Juno where she does all the positions and

00:35:19.660 she's seen as like a sexual person but I do think Olivia's branding over the years has lent more

00:35:26.500 young like her audience I feel like is younger she is quite like good girl quote unquote I think

00:35:33.720 like yes she's trying to be a bit more punk her through her album aesthetics and her sound I think

00:35:39.320 is a bit more punky but I just think that's where the not miscommunication but again like

00:35:46.040 juxtaposition not to overuse that word is coming from because she's trying to be like I'm inspired

00:35:51.260 by these punk people and I'm wearing a baby doll dress in a really subvertive way so therefore like

00:35:57.040 I'm rock chick I'm punk I'm wearing them with Doc Martens but people still see her as like

00:36:01.400 this sweet innocent Disney girl who was like doing Taylor Swift YouTube covers at eight years old

00:36:07.980 and i totally see that discourse because in another article i was reading they were saying

00:36:13.420 that in the 90s these like rock chicks they were pairing their baby dolls with like distress like 0.53

00:36:18.680 makeup like like red lipstick i'm kind of rubbed on their face and kind of really messy hair

00:36:25.120 whereas with olivia it's still pretty a clean image and that's why maybe the subversion isn't

00:36:31.300 coming through as strongly and i feel like i can i stand by some of that criticism and i see that too 0.82

00:36:36.500 so perhaps she can't have the best of both worlds one where she is seen as more of like a rebellious

00:36:42.580 punk icon but she still reaps the rewards of being a very palatable mainstream pop artist

00:36:48.460 yes 100 percent my one of my favorite takes from this that i saw over the weeks

00:36:53.180 was from good noticing's podcast love them and love them they said olivia rodrigo wants to look 0.99

00:37:00.620 grungy but she unfortunately has such perfect american girl doll hair where nothing is ever

00:37:05.960 out of place and she can't change that so true i love that that's actually so funny god those

00:37:13.000 ladies are funny one piece i really loved reading was from refinery 29 and it was called the outrage

00:37:19.880 over olivia rodrigo was never really about a baby doll dress and that was written by elizabeth

00:37:25.680 whitehead we'll read some of it out now moral panics gain traction because they offer people

00:37:31.020 a sense of control over fears that feel far out of our control or even our understanding but moral

00:37:37.000 panics rarely direct their energy toward the true source of social fear in sociology this is what

00:37:43.220 is known as a folk devil a folk devil is when social anxieties get collapsed into a symbolic 0.92

00:37:48.940 object often a subculture style of dress or form of music a folk devil gives a face to something

00:37:55.660 that is otherwise faceless creating a simplified narrative that is easier to metabolize than the

00:38:01.360 true source of the fear elizabeth continues the criticisms leveled against rodrigo were for the

00:38:07.200 most part driven by over exaggeration and projection and on the surface the fixation

00:38:12.560 on whether a certain cut of dress counts as some agent of moral destruction sounds completely

00:38:17.500 irrational paranoid even but beneath the outrage sits a very real cultural anxiety rooted in real

00:38:24.100 events. It has simply been aimed at the wrong target. So true. When we have something as

00:38:29.940 terrifying and extensive as the Epstein files, it's so much easier to point a finger at a young

00:38:38.040 pop star who's wearing a dress that's a bit controversial. But at the end of the day,

00:38:43.220 the fear of pedophilia, of women being sexualized, it does not lay on Olivia Rodrigo's back.

00:38:54.100 it's now time for bookmarked where we share something we've loved watching reading or

00:39:04.600 listening to this week maggie you are up first what are you sharing with the class today i have

00:39:09.760 a book that i'm recommending it is called just watch me by leo torrenberg it is actually one

00:39:15.640 of the books we recommended uh for our 2026 book wrap so i'm glad that i'm taking some of those

00:39:22.400 titles off. This is a weird girl lit. It falls on the weird girl lit and it follows our protagonist

00:39:30.180 over the course of just one week. And in that week, she is live streaming. She's live streaming

00:39:36.120 because her sister is in a coma and she's raising money for her. This sounds so ludicrous and it 0.82

00:39:44.140 kind of is okay it was a really gripping read I didn't necessarily you know like the character

00:39:52.420 but I found it like hard to look away like she does some really out of pocket things and you

00:40:00.460 were just like it's almost like you're just watching a car accident unfold and that car

00:40:06.880 accident is her life but um I think it's a very timely book I don't know about the shelf life of

00:40:13.720 a book like this because it is about online live streaming i think it is very current of course

00:40:18.820 there are lots of the book is like chat log style so you see people's comments and stuff and who

00:40:24.380 knows how we'll be speaking in five ten years time on the internet but for now i think i really liked

00:40:31.540 it it posed a lot of questions about like voyeurism being watched like selling like monetizing

00:40:38.140 yourself a lot of these like nice little questions that are very of the moment this is in my tbr pile

00:40:45.560 i actually finished a book on the weekend and was like what am i reading next i looked at that

00:40:51.740 um so i'm glad that you recommended it yeah it was on our list of like uh books we were looking

00:40:56.740 forward to of 2026 as you said so i'm glad you enjoyed it because i was kind of a bit you know

00:41:02.260 a bit nervous about like the whole sick sister live streaming like will it be too too negative

00:41:08.080 or something or like too sad girl but if it's kind of more weird girl I think that's yeah that's good

00:41:13.120 yeah way more weird girl and it helps that the cover is gorgeous as well lol now it's time for

00:41:18.940 your recommendation what are you sharing I'm recommending the book Perfection by Vincenzo

00:41:23.780 Latroniso it is an Italian book that was published in 2022 and it was then translated to English

00:41:30.740 in 2025 by Sophie Hughes. So once the book was translated into English it was shortlisted for

00:41:36.740 the 2025 International Booker Prize and it is quite a short book. It's about 150 pages

00:41:43.740 and it follows the journey of a millennial couple's quest for authenticity in their life.

00:41:50.680 It's set in the mid-2010s and so you're kind of beginning to see like you know the beginnings of

00:41:56.400 Instagram and like the world that we live in now in the 2020s kind of beginning to unfold. So like

00:42:02.840 people living by social media trends. Anna and Tom are an expat couple. They live in Berlin in a

00:42:10.520 bright plant-filled apartment. They are young digital creatives, graphic designers. They party,

00:42:17.400 they go out to clubs, they are progressive in their politics and sexual experimentation.

00:42:21.720 and suddenly they begin to feel a bit disillusioned and bored their friends begin to grow up they

00:42:29.800 try to get involved in some political activism and it's a really easy read to read and I did

00:42:36.300 read in one sitting because it just follows their journey really like seamlessly through

00:42:44.280 I think it's like a year or two but it's a really great take on like the millennial dream I guess

00:42:53.080 and it's crazy how relevant it still is today despite it being like set yeah in like the early

00:43:00.300 to mid 2010s there are certain scenes and paragraphs that might make you feel a bit reflective

00:43:08.520 and maybe a little existential because you as in me or the audience or the audience i guess like

00:43:15.880 if you're listening to culture club like you probably care about the same things that we do

00:43:19.420 and like live similar lifestyles which are very like you know digital nomad and like living the

00:43:26.680 dream and all that stuff it's definitely like a vibe book if you like a vibe book as well because

00:43:32.080 it's not like a hero's journey or anything it's very much just like literary fiction

00:43:38.000 the story of this couple Anna and Tom as they're in their like yeah throughout their 20s and like

00:43:43.820 early 30s and the whole premise is essentially like how is social media influencing your life

00:43:49.800 so I really enjoyed it uh it's like a great modern novel and really easy to read in one sitting and

00:43:57.980 you were saying that you want to read more from authors in a different language and this is a

00:44:01.960 translation so another tick and also a male author i haven't really read many men like ever really

00:44:08.800 like i always gravitate towards women so um yeah this is by an italian man so recommend it's kind

00:44:16.580 of one of the like hype books like if you see the cover you've probably seen it's like bright pink

00:44:20.120 with like a uh like a leaf on the front um it's been you know highly reviewed i think i know the

00:44:25.360 one yeah so it is kind of like a buzzy book but i do love when a buzzy book pulls through that

00:44:31.160 sounds so good yeah you were saying so many of the words about the the blurb of it and i was like

00:44:35.520 ping ping like i'm interested i'm interested i think you'll probably like it well thank you so

00:44:40.720 much dear listeners for joining us on another episode of culture club pod remember we will

00:44:46.420 be linking jet stars cheap flights to rara tonga so you can book yourself a getaway if you like

00:44:51.600 thank you so much for listening and we'll talk to you next time bye

00:45:01.160 You

Culture Club - May 18, 2026

The Moral Panic-ification Of Olivia Rodrigo’s Babydoll Dress, Shein Buys Everlane & The Endless Shilling of AI

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