Culture Club - The Rise of Thoughtfluencers, Ed Vs Macklemore & Sydney Sweeney’s Ad

00:00:00.000 Macklemore versus Ed Sheeran, Sydney Sweeney's gambling ad and the rise of the intellectual

00:00:10.160 influencer. I'm Maggie Zhao and I'm Jasmine Wallace and you're listening to Culture Club

00:00:15.180 where true writers and editors analyse pop culture, the arts and the internet. Today we're on the

00:00:20.720 lands of the Wurundjeri Woiwurrung people of the Kulin Nations. We would like to pay our respects

00:00:25.700 to Elders past and present and extend this to any Aboriginal

00:00:29.080 or Torres Strait Islander listeners today.

00:00:35.080 At the time of recording, it's a Friday morning,

00:00:37.940 it's sunny in Melbourne, the weekend is here

00:00:39.820 and Troi Savant has just released his new single, Party.

00:00:43.720 I saw it on the tram on the way up and I'm obsessed

00:00:47.720 and I want to talk about it.

00:00:48.880 I feel like a new Troi single is like the start of summer.

00:00:52.260 Rush, one of your girls.

00:00:53.800 yes 100 it feels like that meme i don't know if you've seen it going around it's like

00:00:57.960 okay northern hemisphere we'll take it from here because it's like spring summer down under now

00:01:02.000 party is the second single of troy's forthcoming album she's the best which is out next month

00:01:07.320 and it's such a fun song and i feel a little bit patriotic hearing his australian accent when he

00:01:13.500 says party yeah party on the bus party in the bush it's so fun but i also thought we could talk

00:01:19.680 quickly about the music video which is set in like an old-timey castle it's all very medieval

00:01:26.760 and I feel like that's kind of a trending aesthetic at the moment. Yeah instantly when I saw like the

00:01:32.880 trailer for Troy's new music video I was like this reminds me of Phoebe Bridges new music video for

00:01:38.380 Lost Boys which was like a single from her newest album Lost Weekend. This one that one made a lot

00:01:43.460 sense because it's about LARPing which is like kind of cosplay in that region uh renaissance

00:01:49.180 era and people are like pretending to be knights and jesters and stuff like that and I was like

00:01:53.800 that's very Phoebe coded um this one took me by surprising Troyes but in a great way um Mike's

00:02:00.260 Mike commented okay budget and I'm like yeah this is like a mini mini movie yes and I think it kind

00:02:06.380 of relates as well to like the Wuthering Heights aesthetic I know they're totally different eras

00:02:10.940 but that kind of like white puffy shirt they're in a castle the start of the video also features

00:02:16.760 a voiceover from Sir Ian McKellen and it's not the first time that the two have collaborated

00:02:21.400 before they actually worked together in a production of Waiting for Godot in Perth

00:02:26.360 when Troy was only 14 so this is like a little reunion for them that's so sweet I love um Troy

00:02:32.280 playing more with his acting and dancing prowess because he's very good at that um this also

00:02:38.160 reminds me this general trend of and again I'm being very vague and saying Renaissance era because

00:02:43.680 I don't know the specifics but Renaissance fairs are having such a moment I'm really jealous I

00:02:49.960 really want to go to a Ren fair people get all dressed up in that period there's like almost

00:02:54.880 like games and different activations it's usually set in a castle or something of that sort it looks

00:03:01.520 just so fun and we are correct in kind of identifying this as a bit of a trend at the

00:03:05.660 moment because Vogue Australia had a shoot at a renaissance fair recently on July 7th Gladys

00:03:11.260 Leigh of Vogue said the best fashion right now is at your local renaissance fair so iconic I love

00:03:16.580 that as a street style idea it reads if you're bored of capri propaganda but a yellow and yet

00:03:21.960 another person on your tiktok algorithm telling you that looking whimsical is in might we suggest

00:03:26.920 a dose of actual whimsy that people around the globe are partaking in renaissance fairs first

00:03:31.780 imagined in 1960s California as countercultural fundraisers have become in our digital age a sort

00:03:37.860 of reclamation. There is first and foremost the spirit of community, thousands upon thousands

00:03:43.580 of attendees sharing plates of brisket and slaw, Knights Templar and wizards cradling horns of mead,

00:03:49.700 strangers stopping each other to compliment a helmet or corset. There's spectacle, jousting,

00:03:54.200 pillory photo ops and mermaids in tanks. So Troy is very much leaning into this aesthetic at the

00:04:01.620 moment the video was directed by troy's longtime collaborator gordon von steiner was filmed at a

00:04:07.680 castle in berkeley england the two were interested in nightlife significance within queer culture

00:04:13.640 oh yeah i feel like that's been so obvious throughout the themes of all his music but

00:04:18.020 especially this one and a lot of the promo clips are him dancing at a club he says nightlife is

00:04:23.220 often the first place a queer person finds himself in a room where they're not the minority so it

00:04:28.480 becomes a really formative and liberating space for so many of us. And if letting loose is innate

00:04:33.600 to humanity, which I believe it is, then surely people have always partied. We wanted to know

00:04:38.720 what that looked like. So we went back in time and threw one. That's so fun. Like what a fun

00:04:43.680 shoot to be a part of. So fun. And the song also samples Madonna's song music. And so I feel like

00:04:48.980 it's just another homage to the women in pop that have come before Troy and he's paying his respects,

00:04:56.260 paying his dues. So happy weekend. I'm very excited that Troy is back.

00:05:11.920 In really exciting news, Lena Dunham, personal friend it feels at this time,

00:05:17.160 has become a mum. She has welcomed a child through surrogacy with her husband,

00:05:21.780 Lewis Felber. The news was announced via a Vogue op-ed titled Lena Dunham is a mother the sweet

00:05:27.760 singular story of how she prepared. In the essay Lena speaks of the process of meeting her surrogate

00:05:33.900 and her own process of shopping and preparing for the baby's arrival. I have seen a few call-outs

00:05:40.180 online of her using surrogacy but I feel like people who are doing that don't understand the

00:05:46.560 context and the health issues that Lena Dunham has dealt with in the past. And that's a real

00:05:49.840 conversation to be had about the rise of celebrity surrogates but this is so different especially if

00:05:55.940 you have read fame sick Lena Dunham's new memoir she speaks a lot about her many chronic illnesses

00:06:03.140 and she's had various fertility issues and at the age of 31 she actually had a total hysterectomy

00:06:09.080 so she can't birth children herself we'll read a little bit of the piece out now in the months

00:06:14.480 before the embryo transfer date as I got to know our surrogate and to trust her the feelings I

00:06:19.220 thought would be there somehow weren't namely jealousy that this woman could do for a child 1.00

00:06:24.340 for my child what I could not carry her safely in her body use her form to feed and house her 0.92

00:06:30.220 regulate the baby's ever-evolving nervous system with steadiness heart and breath instead I felt

00:06:36.560 a different kind of jealousy towards said baby for the chance to be tucked into someone who

00:06:41.420 radiated such safety I could just tell she knew how to steer an SUV in the snow later in the piece

00:06:47.320 she talks about how the baby arrived late, so we'll read more from the piece now.

00:06:51.940 And then, 13 days late, in the face of a solar eclipse and a meteor shower, she announced herself.

00:06:58.260 I sat on a hospital bed between the legs of a woman I hadn't known a year ago,

00:07:02.700 waiting for a glimpse of this person who I had been waiting for with something related to

00:07:07.400 patience, but also none at all. I was so focused on our surrogate, in awe at her concentration,

00:07:13.200 her period of quiet followed by what sounded like a roar I forgot to look down until I heard

00:07:18.980 our baby's cry I saw her face gasping just as she did her eyes wide and unfocused taking in the

00:07:26.380 light and shadow blinking rapidly talk to her the midwife said say hello hello I said I'm your mama

00:07:33.240 you you look nothing like I thought you would but exactly right we've been waiting for you

00:07:38.780 do you know that it was so nice of you to come oh so nice and I think it's very sweet that she

00:07:45.560 even said like our babies cry as well like this journey alongside her surrogate and I think a lot

00:07:50.980 of the conversations I've seen about celebrity surrogates it's so like void of that relationship

00:07:56.960 between that those two women so it was very I think generous of Lena to bring us into that

00:08:08.780 It feels like there's been a huge cultural shift this week when it comes to support for

00:08:16.220 Palestine and at the centre of it are two pop stars, Ed Sheeran and Macklemore.

00:08:20.780 This has been the biggest story across culture and politics in the last couple of weeks and it's

00:08:25.940 kind of been unfolding throughout the last couple of recordings so I'm so glad that we are here

00:08:30.380 today to kind of run you through kind of the background and what's been happening. This all

00:08:36.100 really kicked off on September 4 when Macklemore was introducing his political protest song,

00:08:41.940 Heinz Hall, which was released in 2024. That was for solidarity with US students who were

00:08:47.940 protesting for the ceasefire in Gaza. This was him at the Ed Sheeran concert in New Jersey.

00:08:54.780 And he said, a big part of the reason why I wanted to do this tour in the first place is so I could

00:09:00.160 stand up in stadiums like this and say two words that are very near and dear to my heart,

00:09:05.040 free Palestine. And then like the following day at the concert, he also said something similar.

00:09:10.660 And he also said that criticizing Israel is no criticism of, quote, my Jewish brothers and

00:09:15.700 sisters. It was those two concerts that made the Israeli American Council launch a petition that

00:09:20.920 called for the removal of Macklemore from Ed Sheeran's lineup. In response to that petition,

00:09:26.440 Macklemore then posts a video of himself performing at the stadium with the caption,

00:09:30.380 wanting all humans to be treated equal should never be controversial. This is when we were

00:09:34.620 going to talk about it um i think last week was around the singer pink's instagram commentary and

00:09:42.820 then subsequent instagram stories of like i don't need everyone to like me kind of rhetoric uh she

00:09:49.060 was like posting memes and like little illustrations on her stories it was all very like facebook mom

00:09:53.460 yes but we thought no we're not going to talk about that because it would be kind of passed but

00:09:59.780 this is kind of a inflection point in the story so pink released a statement on her instagram

00:10:04.340 after this petition saying, of course I don't speak for Israel or for any government. I never

00:10:09.780 have. What I said in October, 2023 is still exactly what I believe. Hamas is a terrorist

00:10:15.060 organization. Palestinians deserve a future that honors their humanity and their aspirations. 0.97

00:10:20.480 Protecting innocent life comes first everywhere and nobody should ever celebrate the death of

00:10:25.080 a child. Last weekend, he, as in Macklemore, stood in front of a stadium full of music-loving

00:10:30.540 families with violent images from a war on the screens, dedicated a song to the movement of his

00:10:35.820 choice, and then took the mic to tell all of the Jews in the stadium that it wasn't about them.

00:10:40.940 You don't get to decide that for us. I have not seen a conversation about Palestine in culture

00:10:48.260 go as far as this has. And to see like so much mainstream support in like traditional news

00:10:54.520 outlets as well, like this is quite, dare I say like a watershed moment. I was about to say

00:10:59.180 watershed moment it really feels like that and at first I was like no it's just because of the

00:11:03.360 you know the echo chambers that we're in and the news that we're consuming and the publications

00:11:09.000 like cheek media etc that we consume we are seeing more of like one quote-unquote side I guess of

00:11:17.040 of this but no seeing other like yeah mainstream like the BBC and CNN etc talking about this it

00:11:24.940 does feel like a big cultural shift so after the petition is launched then pink you know kind of

00:11:32.020 calls it out macklemore is dropped from ed sheeran's tour on september 14th macklemore said

00:11:37.820 on instagram that after quote a week of difficult conversations with ed he was dropped from the

00:11:42.780 remaining eight shows of the lube tour this was a really great statement in my opinion it was very

00:11:49.320 like kind towards Ed Sheeran. Macklemore also kind of like declares his own privilege saying like I'm

00:11:55.380 not a victim, Ed Sheeran's not a victim, Pink is not a victim because we have careers, we have money, 0.98

00:11:59.880 we get to go home to our families, the real victims of the Palestinian people. He also describes Ed as 0.99

00:12:04.920 a friend. He's known for 13 years and quote I consider him a brother. That is important to note

00:12:10.980 because Ed Sheeran's statement is very different in its tone. Also acknowledges that Ed is quote in

00:12:16.580 a fucked up position and he knew that his typical apolitical stance was being challenged in a way 0.95

00:12:22.780 it never had been before. The statement from Macklemore also reads, he told me that the words 0.99

00:12:27.680 free Palestine and the images of the Palestinian flag were hurtful to a lot of people he spoke with.

00:12:33.540 I told him that if those words were more offensive than tens of thousands of Palestinian children

00:12:38.320 being killed by Israel, then there was a fundamental disconnect between where those

00:12:42.460 people stood and where I stood but he couldn't get past his public facing I don't take sides

00:12:47.940 yeah speaking about Ed's statement it was so bad guys it's like really it's really horrific

00:12:57.480 it's a notes app apology of course but it's like dot point which I just think is weird um and this

00:13:04.200 is some of it Ed writes I'm appalled by the conflict between Israel and Palestine the suffering

00:13:09.640 and pain cause on both sides is a human tragedy. There are too many walls across the world causing

00:13:14.840 immeasurable pain, none of which should be tolerated. Macklemore asked to join my tour

00:13:20.360 last year and I agreed because I respect him as an artist. Macklemore coming off tour was the

00:13:25.880 promoter's decision. It was not mine. Macklemore's contract for the tour was with the promoter,

00:13:30.580 not me. And the caption for all this, by the way, read, it's important that I set out some facts.

00:13:35.340 so he almost reads like a legal document he's just like facts like this is this is what happened I

00:13:41.600 don't know it just feels very clinical totally and you can imagine the lawyers the PR the crisis

00:13:46.920 comms that would be behind a statement like this and I think it comes across that way but it really

00:13:51.960 landed poorly with the general public and I do want to acknowledge you know like the side of

00:13:58.240 the internet that we're seeing people are very like critical of Ed Sheeran at the moment I don't

00:14:02.600 know if the people who are buying tickets to Ed Sheeran's concerts like the majority of them I

00:14:08.840 don't know how you know to heart they're taking this it's hard because we're just um speculating

00:14:14.980 you know yeah we're totally speculating and I'm not saying that Ed Sheeran fans are not

00:14:19.240 you know don't care about this or they aren't progressive or anything like that um there's so

00:14:25.000 many bloody millions of people who go to his concerts and then the same day that Ed put out

00:14:29.600 that statement the remaining support acts as well as his touring band bioga all pulled out oh my

00:14:36.620 goodness a mass exodus nothing better than that like when you're working in a workplace and you're

00:14:41.660 so like this is that on steroids and they all posted instagram uh you know statements about

00:14:48.980 their decisions many of them reference the impact on free speech that macamore's axing

00:14:53.340 will have on the world basically a big part of this conversation as well is around robert craft

00:14:59.460 who's the owner of Gillette Stadium as well as the New England Patriots football stadium.

00:15:04.740 He's a billionaire and he shared his own statement because he was named in Macklemore

00:15:09.300 State. So many statements flying around. Robert Kraft was also referenced in Ed Sheeran's statement

00:15:14.620 with Ed saying, I spoke with venues at length all week to try and build a bridge. One of those

00:15:19.960 people was Robert Kraft. So that's the reason why a lot of his band who have Irish heritage,

00:15:25.520 which if you know Irish history is very significant they reference Robert Kraft and

00:15:32.080 the fact that yeah billionaires which is like a big topic over across the whole globe at the

00:15:37.040 moment in so many different facets of society billionaires are you know governments really

00:15:41.460 are being owned by billionaires and so I think this feeds into that as well. Ed Sheeran actually

00:15:45.960 sang at this businessman's wedding in 2022 and in an interview afterwards called Robert Kraft

00:15:52.080 super sweet. Interesting. But Robert Kraft's statement says, based on Macklemore's recent

00:15:58.320 actions, material shared from the stage during Ed Sheeran's shows, and a broader history of

00:16:02.400 anti-Semitic rhetoric and imagery that we believe has been deeply offensive and hurtful to the

00:16:06.960 Jewish community, we determined that his participation in the concerts at Gillette

00:16:11.100 Stadium would cross that line. So yeah, lots of statements to unpack. That's kind of where we are

00:16:16.720 up to now. Since then, there has been money donated from all sides. So Macklemore said that

00:16:22.600 he was going to earn a million dollars in USD from the two shows he played on tour, which is

00:16:29.240 so much money that equates to $1.4 million Australian. And he said that he's going to

00:16:35.260 donate all that money to, quote, bring the conversation back to where it belongs to the

00:16:39.660 Palestinian people who are still being killed, still living under military occupation and still

00:16:44.520 fighting for their freedom. He invited Robert Kraft to match that donation. In Robert Kraft's

00:16:50.860 statement after this he also says that he was asked by Ed Sheeran to donate US 2 million or

00:16:56.900 2.8 million Australian for quote aid in the region after Macklemore asked him to as well

00:17:02.660 but interestingly in the statement he does not actually say whether he's agreed to donate or

00:17:08.620 what charities the money would be donated to. He's just like Ed asked me to donate 2 million dollars

00:17:13.800 So it kind of reads as like, I'm going to donate.

00:17:16.980 But when you really read it, you're like, wait, are you?

00:17:20.160 It's more just like, oh, I'm glad Macklemore's like donating a million dollars

00:17:24.800 and Ed Sheeran's asked me to match it.

00:17:27.600 So we'll see if he actually does.

00:17:30.200 Yeah, that feels like kind of like a cop-out statement, doesn't it?

00:17:33.980 I've been asked to donate $2 million.

00:17:36.960 As Macklemore said, the biggest point of this conversation is not about like

00:17:40.960 who's cancelling who and billionaires and like you know statements it is about the Palestinian people

00:17:46.140 and the ongoing war and genocide that is going on in this region so I think it's been a important

00:17:52.880 week for uh raising awareness about this genocide but on the other kind of part of this conversation

00:18:01.140 is Ed Sheeran's nice guy image persona has totally been trash this week yeah the issue

00:18:10.660 that most people had with Ed's statement is him kind of being like first of all calling Israel

00:18:16.080 Palestine a conflict second of all saying I don't take sides or like you don't know what I do in my

00:18:21.380 private life how I'm donating to causes and being very like apolitical and a lot of people's issue

00:18:27.140 is like well if you don't take a side you're siding with the oppressors. This was explored in

00:18:31.920 BBC's article titled How Being Music's Mr Nice Guy Contributed to the Biggest Crisis of Ed Sheeran's

00:18:38.120 career by the music correspondent Mark Savage, it references a few of Ed's past charitable works

00:18:44.820 and reads, Ed has sold more than 120 million records and spent more than 1,000 weeks on the

00:18:51.420 US album Chars. Part of his appeal, apart from those insidiously catchy songs, is his everyman

00:18:57.360 persona. He has carefully cultivated a non-threatening everyone welcome public image.

00:19:02.680 later on in the piece it says in 2014 he donated his entire wardrobe to charity shops

00:19:08.760 the same year he adopted a one month old kitten saving it from euthanasia and named it graham

00:19:14.020 today he runs a charity providing music lessons to under 18s in his home county of suffolk

00:19:19.660 it goes on to say he also wore a justice for grenfell t-shirt at wembley in 2018 after

00:19:24.620 the tragic grenfell tower fire played a concert for ukraine in 22 and recorded a protest song

00:19:30.940 about the Ukraine war with U2 earlier in the year. So that is why the article says this argument has

00:19:38.140 come crumbling down because it's kind of at odds. Like this whole situation is at odds with his

00:19:44.340 image and what he has said in the past in his charity work. To that point though, and we're

00:19:48.640 just going off what we've read from the article, bro, that charity work is so limited. He wore a

00:19:53.980 t-shirt adopted a kitten like donated clothes to a charity shop it's really kind of bare bones and

00:20:01.840 I would have said I totally agree with like that first half where he is that every man for sure

00:20:06.960 one of the things I think about it's like oh he's with his high school sweetheart still

00:20:10.780 um so he very much has that nice guy appeal I would never have thought that he was like a

00:20:16.140 charitable star as much as some others make it their um mission to be like that that's when I

00:20:23.140 think of Ed Sheeran, I'm not like, oh yes, all his charity work. Totally. He has started the

00:20:28.180 initiative, the Ed Sheeran Foundation, which focuses on giving young people equal access

00:20:32.380 to music education. And then that inspired the UK government to donate £12.5 million

00:20:37.420 to music in libraries initiative. That's good. And he's also allegedly donated over £1 million

00:20:43.420 to support families in his county of Suffolk. At the end of the day, do you think that Ed

00:20:49.660 will be impacted much by this I think he'll be fine I think he'll be fine and I think I think

00:20:57.500 Ed Sheeran is like a good guy and I think that's like part of the part of it right like I think he

00:21:03.960 means well I do think he represents a lot of like commercial music yeah but I don't think he's like

00:21:10.880 some sort of like evil vindictive man I think money talks and I think he is thinking about like

00:21:19.240 you know commercial radio and stadium owners and his audience it is interesting that he's been so

00:21:25.160 pretty apolitical on this issue specifically but I think what Macklemore said is like we do have

00:21:31.880 to zoom out and be like what is this issue actually about it's not about cancelling

00:21:35.860 different celebrities will be like I'm taking Ed Sheeran off my playlist like or I'm unfollowing 0.98

00:21:40.440 Ed Sheeran anything like that it's like at its core the issue is that Palestinian people are

00:21:46.780 being murdered every day. Yeah. But I think I hesitate with that line about Ed Sheeran is a

00:21:52.320 good guy. I'm not saying that he's evil or whatever. I don't think we need to like put

00:21:56.680 that judgment on him. But I do think a lot of people might fall into his camp where like,

00:22:00.740 oh, they're good people, but they're not going to stand up for what's happening in Palestine.

00:22:04.840 So I almost think like whether he's a public good guy, that's beside the point. Like his 0.97

00:22:09.280 actions are speaking much louder.

00:22:16.780 Yes, we are talking about Sydney Sweeney's controversial ad. She has been the face of

00:22:27.300 a new gambling app and it has caused so much ruckus online. You can tell I'm already annoyed.

00:22:36.340 Sydney shared the ad which promotes the sports prediction market app Novig on Instagram and it

00:22:42.300 has racked up so many millions of likes and so much controversy as well in the 60 second ad

00:22:49.100 Sydney appears fully or partially nude she's posing with a variety of sports equipment including

00:22:55.540 footballs basketballs a soccer ball and even a hockey net what do you think about this well this

00:23:00.660 is a thing the controversy writes itself it's like so obvious I didn't I was hesitant at first

00:23:05.740 to talk about this but I'm like no let's just let's just say our two cents anyway but as soon

00:23:11.340 as the headlines started coming out on the same day, I was just like, I'm over it. This is her

00:23:16.420 brand. This is what she does. She deals in controversy and she knows that this is what

00:23:22.560 gets attention. And who benefits at the end of the day? The brand that she is not only promoting, 0.98

00:23:27.640 but now has stakes in. Yes, she has equity in this sports prediction market app, which is

00:23:33.220 just a gambling app, really. I felt the same way. When I saw the art, I was like, not even shocked,

00:23:40.240 not phased i was just like of course of course that she's partaking in something like this

00:23:46.040 i don't really have a judgment on it anymore i'm just like okay but it has you know sparked a lot

00:23:51.440 of discourse especially in the sporting world totally and like they are the people who i'm like

00:23:56.060 speak of truth like this is this is for you to speak about especially when women's sport is so

00:24:01.620 underfunded underappreciated and under respected so several women olympic athletes have weighed in

00:24:08.260 most notably ariane titmus who is a four-time olympic gold swimmer from australia ariane wrote

00:24:14.640 in a post i can't describe how infuriated i feel when i watch this how do we live in a world where

00:24:19.800 monetizing a woman's body and sexualizing women's sport is still a thing i don't like when i saw

00:24:25.600 that i wasn't like oh she's sexualizing women's sport i was like she's sexualizing betting

00:24:30.080 like sports betting no there's so much sexualization of women's sport like the way 1.00

00:24:35.360 that she's covering up her body with like some like you know balls like footballs and whatever 1.00

00:24:39.940 um there is still this stigma attached I had someone I know when when Tom and I were going

00:24:47.420 to an AFLW game and then they were like oh like like double what did they say it was like something

00:24:52.900 like oh like so good you get to watch your footy and girls or something it was like so weird and

00:24:57.160 I was like what are you talking about I think this is such a common rhetoric that these sports

00:25:02.500 women do have to like come up against still yeah no I'm not denying that and but for me when I think 1.00

00:25:08.800 of women's sport I think of like all the badass women who are like smashing it in women's sport 1.00

00:25:12.800 and like fighting the good fight and when I saw the ad I was like that is American Sydney Sweeney 0.98

00:25:17.220 who is promoting again a sports betting app or sports prediction app which is just like not even

00:25:22.820 in the same camp as like all these incredible female athletes but I do understand that they

00:25:28.180 are fighting against stereotypes and they're fighting the good fight it's giving like the

00:25:33.320 sports illustrated covers you know which i don't think of like oh that's in the sports world i'm

00:25:38.540 like that's glamour modeling that's yeah sex it's playboy it's yeah but using like your career as a

00:25:45.960 prop and then therefore making it like less serious i read an opinion piece in the guardian 0.70

00:25:51.180 by marina hyde it's titled are you outraged by sydney sweeney again more fool you the article

00:25:56.840 reads, not to be a crazed optimist, but the great thing about where women's sport has got to today

00:26:01.580 is that it feels a whole lot bigger and stronger and more compelling than whether Sydney Sweeney 0.96

00:26:06.060 did or didn't get her tits out for a gambling ad. I can't help feeling it would have been cooler for 0.92

00:26:11.060 women's sport to simply not even mention the naked gambling ad at all. And if it had to,

00:26:15.800 maybe focus on the gambling bit rather than the woman advertising it. I haven't definitively run

00:26:20.780 the numbers on this, but instinct tells me that gambling wrecks a lot more lives than Sydney Sweeney.

00:26:25.320 such a good point I do feel like we are missing the biggest story if we're just focusing our

00:26:31.540 outrage and tunneling that towards Sydney when like the industry that she is promoting is so

00:26:37.260 insidious and it is so harmful and again we are kind of doing her job because now I know about

00:26:43.820 Novig exactly two things can be true at once as well I know locally the fitness app Kick they

00:26:50.660 created some really great content around this kind of promoting you know how strong and powerful

00:26:54.820 women are and how great women's sport is and the fact that you know female athletes and sports

00:27:00.120 players do drop out traditionally like in high school these are all really really important

00:27:04.960 issues and it's great that like this has sparked that reminder in those conversations again

00:27:11.140 but I also think Sydney Sweeney is gonna keep doing things like this and I don't know

00:27:17.680 if we have to be as outraged

00:27:24.820 so apparently we are in the year of the intellectual influencer there's been a

00:27:34.480 massive shift away from product focused influences to now those who share knowledge expertise and

00:27:40.700 authority you might know the ones think like video essayists or like cultural commentators

00:27:46.780 also experts in their field so like dermatologists creating skincare content academics posting their

00:27:53.460 research and brand founders becoming business influencers. And while some people do love this

00:27:59.200 content, we've also seen a growing frustration aimed at this new type of influencer. So first

00:28:05.120 up, how do you feel about the rise of the intellectual influencer jazz? It is something

00:28:10.440 that I've been noticing more and more on my feed and I feel a little bit fatigued by it because

00:28:17.100 sometimes when you see that it's like a, when you realize it's a chat GPT script or something, or

00:28:22.060 someone has a great hook and then you start listening to it and you're like this is really

00:28:27.060 empty and hollow then I get annoyed and then I scroll then I the more I see it the more I'm like

00:28:31.320 oh and also sometimes you just go on social media to like look at pretty pictures and fun reels

00:28:36.540 and when everyone is trying to educate you on something that it can feel a little bit tiring

00:28:41.800 but in saying that we are also in the business of cultural commentary so it's like you know

00:28:46.720 pretty rich of us to be negative about it. Yeah. I had this feeling earlier this year

00:28:54.540 because traditionally I love this content. Like I do seek it out and I want to learn about

00:28:59.360 random history tidbits and other things happening in culture. But I had this feeling earlier this

00:29:05.700 year, which I was like, oh, I'm quite fatigued just because there's a lot of it. I think the

00:29:11.220 saturation of it reached quite like a high peak but obviously also my algorithm knows I like this

00:29:17.820 content so perhaps I'm getting more than the average person and then you're right as people

00:29:22.140 who do share their thoughts and feelings online I sometimes do feel this pressure to be like oh

00:29:27.460 should I be talking about that like oh this like hot new take that people are talking about do I

00:29:31.460 need to make a video on it I always try to only do things when I feel compelled to not just because

00:29:37.680 like I feel like I should. I do think though there has been a lot of criticism aimed at this content

00:29:43.160 some of it more warranted than others because at the end of the day to me I'm like wait and I know

00:29:49.080 this sounds like so silly but I'm like isn't it good that people feel like they can contribute

00:29:53.520 to intellectual conversations? We all do have opinions so why is it almost like some people

00:29:59.720 can do it and then some people can't? I feel like I'm picturing a town square and I think it's good

00:30:05.480 when whoever can kind of have their two cents um it doesn't mean that you have to be this some sort

00:30:11.840 of expert in your field with over 20 years of experience there's space for that and there's

00:30:17.160 great stuff to be gotten from that but there's also great stuff to be like had from someone

00:30:23.140 who's like off the street or like who who just wants to share their thoughts i feel yeah i totally

00:30:27.580 agree with you and the good thing about social media is you can just scroll away you don't like

00:30:31.200 it or you can train the algorithm to be like oh I want to see less of that stop saving the

00:30:36.120 thought fluence of videos that you'll come back to that you never come back to and then you see

00:30:39.720 more of them I feel like the valid criticisms of this form of content come from two things

00:30:45.280 allegedly like copycat behavior and number two like using AI for scripts both poor forms I'm

00:30:52.380 questionable about the copycat thing because what happens a lot of the time is there's this hot

00:30:57.320 topic of the month and then people will share videos on it and as is the nature of being human

00:31:03.040 and sharing similar references and outlooks there's crossover so I I do I don't I'm sometimes

00:31:12.020 not convinced about like copycat call outs because I'm like I don't know sometimes I'll make a video

00:31:17.120 on something and then I'll see a similar creator that I like like a friend of mine has posted a

00:31:21.800 similar video like a few hours before and I'm like oh my god I hope they don't think I've copied them

00:31:25.900 But we're in the same marketplace of ideas.

00:31:28.800 I totally agree.

00:31:29.660 And the Days writer, Laura Pitcher, has written an article on this kind of epidemic that we're

00:31:35.260 seeing of the explainer thoughtfluencer.

00:31:38.320 Laura writes, at the very least, its popularity suggests that many young people want their

00:31:42.480 scrolling to feel educational or like a way of participating in cultural discourse.

00:31:47.280 The rise of thinkfluencers then could be seen as young people attempting to take greater

00:31:51.160 control over how they educate themselves and stay informed.

00:31:54.620 this is definitely something that i agree with but in the piece laura also goes on to explain that

00:32:00.160 like the rate at which these thinkfluencers are churning out the content if they're not experts

00:32:05.520 in their field because it's like well then if you've worked on something for so many years you

00:32:08.480 have so much to say about it but if you're kind of like educating on different random topics how

00:32:13.760 are you like learning so much that you can like every single day churn out one to three different

00:32:19.280 videos. The piece says that the explainer content has become the snake eating its own tail.

00:32:25.640 Successful thinkfluencers increasingly end up posting about how you too could make thousands

00:32:30.760 a month creating content or writing a sub stack. At the end of the day, this content is still just

00:32:36.000 social media content. So it still prioritizes all the things that social media content wants to see.

00:32:42.040 And yeah, one person actually interviews talks about like that the speed and the volume of content

00:32:48.480 it rewards more and more of it like the more you post the faster you're posting about these things

00:32:54.460 um the more your content will be prioritized but then your actual content itself and the

00:33:01.080 the takes that you might be formulating will be disadvantaged because you're trying to just

00:33:05.920 rush that out it can feel pretty mindless um sometimes another reference in the piece is that

00:33:13.540 people are spending all day on their phone. So they're feeling intellectually under-stimulated

00:33:19.960 because they spend all day on their phone. So therefore they're like using these think

00:33:23.780 for answer pieces as like, no, I am learning something like scrolling or doom scrolling.

00:33:27.360 It is worth my time because like, look at all these videos I'm saving and I'm learning about,

00:33:30.860 you know, financial freedom or whatever history, whatever it is. But I think it's all still quite

00:33:37.680 surface level i do think you still have to like go away from instagram reels tab and like learn

00:33:44.620 about a topic in a different way to really like get a deeper understanding of it so ultimately i

00:33:49.320 think it's good if there's like a a starting point for people if they're like oh i enjoy learning

00:33:54.740 about that thing like i saw on reels that like this building i'm thinking of like the architecture

00:34:00.340 content creator who you like is he white yeah is he white like i followed her recently and it's like

00:34:05.980 oh I'm learning about she's recently moved to Brisbane I'm like oh I'm learning about

00:34:08.920 Brisbane architecture how cool like I wouldn't have thought to to think about that and you can

00:34:14.080 then use that to be like to have more wonder about the world around you I think that type of content

00:34:18.500 is great but if it's your only form of education inspiration is your phone then I do think that

00:34:26.880 you're never going to feel intellectually fulfilled by these thoughtful answers totally

00:34:31.860 like if you're just digesting 90 second videos on topics that's the like tip of the iceberg you know

00:34:38.880 I also think with any social media trend let's call it that there's always going to be disingenuous

00:34:45.040 actors in the space people who like pivot their content to the the next hot thing whenever it

00:34:50.200 suits like someone could be an ASMR creator and then they're a kitchen organizer creator because

00:34:54.840 that's what's hopping off this month so I can understand people's cynicism with the wave of

00:35:02.060 people who are like entering the space very quickly and trying it out and I again I don't

00:35:06.720 think there's anything wrong with trying it out but I do think a lot of people in that space don't

00:35:12.560 have those like ulterior motives to be like I just want to be the like the biggest spokesperson in

00:35:17.220 this space and I want to be like the most successful person um maybe I'm just being like

00:35:21.880 very optimistic and naive though. I also like this part in the article where Laura says even amid all

00:35:27.780 the slop articles and videos that are coming up on your feed there is something hopeful about this

00:35:32.540 trend and it's that intellectual curiosity is kind of becoming cool online and that is during a time

00:35:38.780 where trust in science and literature and medicine is eroding. Yeah that's totally right like these

00:35:45.940 are all things to praise, I think, and encourage. Again, you don't want to, I always get scared

00:35:51.700 about these conversations or these critiques running into anti-intellectualism, which is

00:35:57.100 like, oh, you can only speak about this if you have a uni degree or whatever. So it's like,

00:36:01.440 I encourage and welcome all this. Laura ends the piece by saying, quote,

00:36:06.200 if everyone is too busy chatting out three think pieces or explaining videos a week,

00:36:10.880 there will be no one left to practice the increasingly lost art of simply being a student.

00:36:15.940 because learning isn't only about having something to say it also requires the patience to sit with

00:36:21.280 someone else's ideas before turning them into your own I really relate to that quote because

00:36:26.400 as someone who is a content creator has a cultural podcast I do feel that pressure to be like put out

00:36:33.660 the think pieces put out the explainer videos like you should do so many per week but often the thing

00:36:39.820 that I like about working in this industry and about this podcast that we've created is the

00:36:44.060 ability to like think deeply and like sit on a topic for a little while and gather all the bits

00:36:48.240 from like what other people are saying and different journalists and publications and then

00:36:53.860 you know producing something from that versus just like quick videos every single day which

00:37:01.020 I've had people in my life being like oh you should just do that like you'd be so good at it

00:37:04.620 all like which is so lovely and supportive or you could gain so many followers or you see the

00:37:08.740 thoughtfulness as being like if you just do this for three months you'll be rich and famous

00:37:13.400 and there's a real pressure to it but I think it's important in this fast-paced society to

00:37:19.540 slow down a little bit and like sit with things and I'm really craving that deep thinking at the

00:37:24.240 moment. I feel like some of the best joy and fulfillment out of that experience comes from

00:37:29.720 the research and the thinking and like the meandering thoughts like that is so important

00:37:34.480 not just like the end output of like wanting people to be your audience. That brings us to

00:37:40.060 the end of the episode you might be like wait what about bookmarked your recommendation part

00:37:45.620 of the episode we actually have a whole spring favorites episode dropping this week might already

00:37:51.920 be out or will be out later this week where we deep dive into books we're loving films beauty

00:37:57.720 fashion a lot of things so that's for you to enjoy until next time bye bye

00:38:10.060 Amen.

Culture Club - September 21, 2026

The Rise of Thoughtfluencers, Ed Vs Macklemore & Sydney Sweeney’s Ad

Episode Stats

Transcript