Culture Club - Why Aren't You Hosting Parties？

00:00:00.000 Why are people calling New York City influences boring?

00:00:10.640 Are we in a party deficit?

00:00:12.920 And should we be compartmentalising all of our different selves?

00:00:16.940 I'm Maggie Zau.

00:00:18.060 And I'm Jasmine Wallace, and you're listening to Culture Club,

00:00:21.240 where we chat about pop culture, current affairs, the internet, and our lives.

00:00:26.080 Today, we are on the land of the Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung people of the Kulin Nations.

00:00:33.340 We would like to pay our respects to Elders past and present

00:00:36.400 and extend this to any Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander listeners today.

00:00:43.640 It is a Monday morning and I feel like it's the coldest morning we've had in ages.

00:00:51.160 yes it was so cold yesterday too so sorry for some Melbourne chat but like I was like I need

00:00:58.460 a puffer jacket I wore like a thick a thick bomber jacket last night going to the shops

00:01:03.200 because I was like oh my god this wind is like arctic good on you for even leaving the house

00:01:09.260 I did not but the scary thing is like the day before was 35 degrees oh my god climate change

00:01:16.320 guys yeah i left the house because i needed like a cozy end to my sundae and i was really tossing

00:01:22.700 up between like oh do i get takeaway or something but i followed my heart because i was like maggie

00:01:26.940 no what do you really want to eat or like what do you really want to cook and it was a big old

00:01:32.160 mac and cheese i knew you were gonna say that i was like oh yeah it was and it was really good

00:01:40.740 i've been using this molly baz like mac and greens like kale recipe for this is probably

00:01:45.580 like my fourth or fifth go at it but I keep just changing it up and like you know I subbed out

00:01:51.600 cream for Greek yogurt and I used I was gonna say less cheese but low-key there's still like

00:01:57.100 over 600 grams of cheese but like fewer types of cheese anyway I kind of slayed it I feel like it

00:02:02.920 was it was a good one good batch I'm hungry mac and cheese for breakfast no seriously um what

00:02:09.980 about you how have you been yes fine um yesterday I actually watched my first f1 race from home

00:02:18.340 from home on the tv I've never seen the f1 before but I was like I feel like more of the girlies

00:02:25.480 are getting into it this year or like the last couple years and I was home with Laurie so thought

00:02:32.640 why not check it on it was good it was exciting I was like I kind of get the hype even on my first

00:02:37.840 one when i didn't know many of the people i even called players drivers yeah no it's so funny we

00:02:43.500 were just having this conversation with some other friends yesterday not players but maybe

00:02:46.720 riders or drivers no drivers that's it how long do races typically go for or how long was the one

00:02:52.920 that you watched well i watched the main event the f1 and that went for like over an hour because

00:02:59.880 they do 57 laps and then things can happen like they can they have to go get their wheels changed

00:03:07.820 or there might be a crash and then it slows down while they clean up the crash um so it's probably

00:03:13.840 so boring for anyone who actually is already into that one but um it went for longer than i thought

00:03:20.980 and oh my god kill me we were watching the final lap then the internet started buffering on the

00:03:27.760 final one so it was like lap 57 who's gonna win and we'd invested like an hour plus into this

00:03:34.600 and then the thing we're watching on like just crashed on the last lap and then it came back

00:03:39.320 when they'd already finished and I was like are you serious that's so sad it's probably because

00:03:43.620 everyone was trying to watch that final little bit um that's really sad and to be honest like

00:03:49.400 my eyes low-key glaze over but people are really into the f1 and I respect that but I'm like why

00:03:54.620 don't you just watch the movie cars everything you're saying there the wheels changing blah

00:03:58.320 blah, blah. I'm like, yeah, you get that in cars. Oh my God.

00:04:07.940 Over on TikTok, my feed has been taken over by a conversation around whether New York City

00:04:14.460 influencers are boring. Have you been seeing this, Jazz? I have. And I'm bored by this conversation.

00:04:21.120 I did have to fight to have this conversation on the pod. And why are you bored of it?

00:04:28.320 I just think we've had this conversation in different iterations every year for the past

00:04:33.900 five years and I don't know if anything changes from the conversations that we have every single

00:04:40.580 year and it's just like a different person is getting cancelled for the same things and then

00:04:45.620 we and then people forget and then we move on and then we come back around every year and have this

00:04:51.560 conversation okay maybe I'm got like a short-term memory because I'm like oh I feel like this feels

00:04:59.240 like a new iteration of it but before we get too into the analysis let's go back because to be

00:05:04.780 honest my TikTok for you page was essentially just a lot of New York creators talking about this and

00:05:11.560 being like how talking about their personal experiences with other creators or feeling fed

00:05:16.020 up by the industry etc but what really sparked this whole conversation was a tiktok by user

00:05:22.720 martini feeney which has 2.2 million views at the time of recording and in it she declares that she 0.98

00:05:30.600 hates all of the new york city influences she thinks they're quote boring as fuck and they're 0.93

00:05:35.840 all carbon copies of each other martini then goes on to list that all these influences wear the same 0.99

00:05:42.860 jewelry shop at the same store revolve and experience the same mental health issues panic

00:05:48.160 attacks they should be the influences not the influencers she concluded what really blew this

00:05:54.540 up was so funny because again at the time of recording martini has about 3 000 followers but

00:06:00.120 that's because you know her videos have blown up because of this so at the time of her video

00:06:05.840 being posted she had way fewer followers than that and you know not to focus so much on followers

00:06:13.760 but at the end of the day it's a very small account like the reach is quite small but it

00:06:17.800 was very much amplified by New York City influencers who thought that Martini was talking

00:06:24.500 about her so bear in mind Martini I don't know if that's her real name but we're just gonna roll

00:06:29.980 with it she didn't name any names but these influencers thought that she was talking about

00:06:35.400 them one being acquired style whose proper name is bridget for long so in the video that blew this

00:06:44.400 up bridget has stitched martini's video and it's kind of mocking the video it's kind of being like 0.89

00:06:50.000 you're talking about me what like showing off her clothes like kind of like showing her nails

00:06:55.540 and things like that um it's very much like oh you're jealous of me energy not the best move um

00:07:04.560 now it's that's what's like really blowing this up on tiktok and what i've seen funnily enough i

00:07:11.980 don't know why i think it's because i'm not interested in this drama quote unquote that

00:07:17.740 the algorithm thinks that i'm on the other side so i'm getting a lot of videos with women being 1.00

00:07:23.620 like bridget did nothing wrong like why is everyone jealous of a quiet style like you would do that

00:07:29.420 too if you didn't need to work a nine-to-five like it's giving jealousy so it's really funny

00:07:32.900 like being on the other side of the algorithm when I guess there's a bigger conversation

00:07:38.160 happening on the other side yeah and I think one of the big conversations I like coming out of this

00:07:43.640 is talking about like who we are uplifting to influencer status and like kind of having a big

00:07:49.960 mainstream audience question that so there was this article in Glamour just called what's this

00:07:57.120 whole New York City influences a boring drama really about and that was written by Stephanie

00:08:02.120 McNeil. In it, she kind of brings out some stats that I want to bring up too. So in 2022, a PR

00:08:09.600 firm called MSL, along with the Influencer League, commissioned a study on racial disparities in the

00:08:16.100 influencer industry. Again, this is focused in America, but they found that the pay gap between

00:08:21.640 black and white influencers was a 35% disparity. Crazy, but like not surprising, sadly.

00:08:30.440 i think it's interesting when people complain about influences in general when it's like you're

00:08:37.400 seeing them as well because you're like engaging with the content whether you're like slowing down

00:08:42.300 your fee like your watch when you're kind of scrolling past you follow them you like them

00:08:47.580 you send even if you're sending it to like bitch about someone that's like that the algorithms are 0.61

00:08:52.700 biased and we know that the algorithm is like a microcosm of society and especially in america if 0.93

00:08:58.980 you are wealthy and white and pretty and skinny you're most likely going to be successful on apps

00:09:08.800 that are run by like billionaire tech bros. Completely like that's how the algorithm is

00:09:13.240 kind of formatted but there was another interesting point that this article raised about

00:09:18.680 why this conversation is picking up again. I mean I know that you said that you like every year you

00:09:24.280 see a version of this conversation, but I do think the last time I really remember this

00:09:29.960 was around 2020, 2021, around the COVID pandemic beginning. So in the piece, Stephanie says,

00:09:38.740 I have a theory. The last time we saw such an uproar against influencers specifically

00:09:43.020 was exactly five years ago. Anyone remember what was going on then? Amid the terror and frustration

00:09:49.060 of the COVID-19 pandemic lockdowns and the volatile Donald Trump administration,

00:09:54.500 influencers were singled out as the worst among us. It's not shocking to me that as the second

00:09:59.500 Trump administration has plunged the US again into economic and social anxiety, people have again

00:10:05.200 started growing frustrated at the faces on their feed. It ends, it continues, when you're scared

00:10:10.540 about high prices or losing your job or your home, there's nothing more triggering than a seemingly

00:10:15.780 carefree, privileged women making the most expensive city in the world her playground. 0.83

00:10:21.920 I have to like echo what you're saying though as well. I think it is kind of 0.67

00:10:26.240 like a self-fulfilling prophecy when we as a masses of followers are uplifting these women

00:10:35.560 that we end up hating because it's like you have power in your clique. I don't know any of these

00:10:41.800 influencers and it's almost like the same in Australia I don't follow like all the big players

00:10:47.840 at all so yeah you can curate your feed and that's also what this article touches on it kind of ends

00:10:55.180 on my point which is like if the only New York influencers you're following and are being bored

00:11:01.840 by are indistinguishable from each other it's more of a problem with the feed you've curated

00:11:07.220 than anything else so I purposely try to follow like not influencers who are always like Amazon

00:11:16.640 storefront like you should buy this thing it's more people who are creating who are more creative

00:11:24.080 maybe who are stylists obviously we see an ad every now and then like you and I also do content

00:11:28.700 ads but the whole thing isn't like I wake up and then I go buy something and then I show you what

00:11:34.220 i bought and then i show you my salad for dinner and then i go to pilates in saying that i do

00:11:40.420 actually follow the acquired style girls i don't know why if it's an aspirational thing not that i

00:11:45.540 want to live in a new york high-rise and live that lifestyle but i know sometimes it's like

00:11:49.680 a brain cleanse i'm like wow that looks nice but of course i also follow like a range of other

00:11:55.680 people so i don't know i don't know where this conversation is going to go i just think bridget

00:12:01.840 is like the current scapegoat of this month and sure she should take some of this criticism on 1.00

00:12:08.100 board people are calling her mean a mean girl the dancey mocking thing probably wasn't the right well

00:12:13.180 definitely wasn't the right move but like I think honestly in like two weeks people are gonna 1.00

00:12:18.520 forget about this and she'll go back to like making her millions oh yeah I don't think she's

00:12:23.580 getting cancelled at all I think she's just like epitomizes the conversation what you you did ask

00:12:29.440 I wonder where the conversation will go from here.

00:12:32.980 And I think almost race and class and size aside, I like the conversation around like,

00:12:39.800 okay, are these people actually influential?

00:12:42.740 A Melbourne creator, Sanam, posted a TikTok about this and I kind of loved it.

00:12:46.860 She was kind of like, be discerning.

00:12:48.520 Would you actually turn to these people for advice or are they just selling you clothes?

00:12:54.560 And is that actually the meaning of influential?

00:12:56.940 I think the word influencer has been so bastardized that we're like oh yeah like you sell us stuff or

00:13:03.240 whatever so you must be a influencer but we could be more I don't know choosy with that term no

00:13:09.240 matter like I mean that term has a lot of like cringe connotations and such but yeah that's kind

00:13:16.680 of where I hope the conversation goes and like as someone who makes most of their money from content

00:13:23.240 how does this conversation make you feel that's interesting um I think I'm very like jaded by the

00:13:31.220 industry and um like how I fit in anyway like I don't um I don't know it's it's an industry that's

00:13:39.140 driven by just like consumerism right so it's like what like what am I like how well do I actually

00:13:44.940 fit so I think it just like complicates the feelings a bit but I'm actually still yeah I'm

00:13:50.840 not sure i'm figuring it out and i think another bigger conversation here as well is like why do

00:13:55.800 we have to just idolize new york city influences i mean there are other cities and the other cool

00:14:02.760 people in other cities i don't know are we in a party deficit this is what journalist ellen

00:14:14.740 Cushing asked in her article Americans need to party more for the Atlantic. What if there were

00:14:21.960 a way to smush all of your friends together in one place like maybe one with drinks and snacks

00:14:27.020 and chairs you could see your work friends and your childhood friends and the people you've

00:14:31.080 chatted with at school drop-off all at once instead of scheduling several different hangs.

00:14:35.500 What if you could introduce your single friends and let them loose on each other without any apps

00:14:40.660 required i'm being annoying obviously there is a way it's parties we need more of them so in this

00:14:48.360 piece the writer brings up some massive kind of very sad stats to be honest so for instance roughly

00:14:56.040 one in eight americans report having no friends and another thing is sorry i'm just gonna like

00:15:03.460 roll some out because it's it's not great um apparently only 4.1 percent of americans

00:15:11.060 attended or hosted a social event on an average weekend or holiday in 2023 and according to their

00:15:18.980 bureau of statistics this is a 35 percent decrease since 2004 so yeah we are having fewer parties

00:15:28.220 this article made me a bit sad and a bit nostalgic for my childhood honestly my parents when I was

00:15:38.500 growing up so like before I was a teenager um every weekend pretty much would host a big party

00:15:46.060 with their friends and obviously their friends had kids and it was so much fun I think it was

00:15:53.460 like a Friday night and everyone would just come over and bring food and bring drinks and it was

00:15:57.660 just free-flowing and then with us kids would just be like running around up to mischief and

00:16:01.920 hanging out or playing games and then we just go to bed at like you know the parents with kids

00:16:09.480 probably take their children home to bed we'd stay we'd go to our bed and then our parents would stay

00:16:15.060 up till the early hours talking with their friends who were still around like obviously a bit more

00:16:19.960 quietly and it was so much fun and like so many of my best childhood memories are from those parties

00:16:25.160 one point I guess I want to make on this is like none of us have houses as well I would love to

00:16:32.640 host more parties and at the end of the year I'm hosting the biggest party of my life my wedding

00:16:37.280 yeah but weekendly that's not a word you know like once a week I I live in a studio apartment

00:16:46.700 I can't if I want to host something every weekend it's in a studio apartment or I'll go out in

00:16:53.800 public to somewhere like a park so many of my birthday parties are at restaurants as well

00:16:59.500 because my birthday is in winter so I can't like I don't have space to host something in my home

00:17:05.900 and can't host outside at the beach at a park so I'm going to a restaurant and people are spending

00:17:12.100 money and yeah yeah because we're talking about this article again because while it was published

00:17:19.120 like in Jan a recent TikTok about it has been making the rounds and most of the comments in it

00:17:26.420 are talking about what you're saying right now like we lack the space another conversation

00:17:32.420 that's popping up is that people are so comfortable like bailing and not showing up or not

00:17:37.760 reciprocating that behavior and I mean in the piece they are like you can like you don't have

00:17:43.960 to have it at your house you could have a picnic etc but like for instance in Australia you can't

00:17:48.720 drink in public, for instance. So there are so many barriers. It's so nice to hear about how

00:17:56.160 you grew up as well, because like, that sounds so cool. And it referenced something in the piece

00:18:02.760 where the writers like, you know, six months ago, I stumbled across the saddest thing I've ever seen

00:18:07.100 on Reddit, which was, you know, I thought we'd be having more parties. Like, did anyone else

00:18:11.720 think that we'd be having more parties? What I really liked from the piece as well was this

00:18:17.200 sentiment of everybody wants to attend more parties but no one wants to throw them yes I think

00:18:23.680 this part is building on the conversation we're already having around our village so there was

00:18:30.440 also some discourse this week about if you want to be a part of a community if you want to have a

00:18:37.100 village the price you pay for that is annoyance did you see that going around yes I did and that

00:18:44.620 is very real as well like helping your family out or like wanting to go to something even if

00:18:52.960 you might not be in the right exact mood it's kind of annoying sometimes but like it'll come

00:18:59.100 back around and that's how you build and keep your community going I think that you're quite good at

00:19:08.840 hosting things I feel like I've gone to a couple of things in the past few years that have been

00:19:14.220 like at your house and also you threw the cutest um cafe housewarming and you're throwing another

00:19:20.220 one soon um last year what made you want to have like a cafe housewarming rather than like a party

00:19:29.620 party yeah that was so fun I mean for those who don't know I'm half moved out with my partner in

00:19:36.960 like April of last year and I will say since then there have been a few parties and you are right

00:19:43.400 most of them are more low-key than like a house party rager I think low-key for me half of it is

00:19:49.780 like respect for the neighbors but like like shut up they don't care like there are parties

00:19:54.440 um I think for me it was more manageable kind of like setting that tone of like we're gonna

00:20:00.160 have something chill uh something where people can chat and I and I yeah like low-key I was

00:20:06.540 scared about too much mess I guess or like you know I don't know it's such a like it's like the

00:20:12.160 most embarrassing answer but it's true like I'm like what if people like you know really like

00:20:17.700 mess up the house I don't think my friends are like that but yeah it was a consideration then

00:20:23.060 that goes back to the point of like it's not your house like you don't own it so you're nervous about

00:20:29.020 like damage to the rental property which would cost you like a lot of money to fix and you could

00:20:34.700 get kicked out in like a rental crisis right ironically you did get kicked out not because

00:20:40.880 of the party because they wanted to sell yeah they're selling they're selling uh but speaking

00:20:45.520 of a housewarming right i was just having a conversation with tom because we're gonna have

00:20:49.800 another cafe housewarming for the new rental apartment we're in and we were like kind of like

00:20:56.100 to and froing about the guest list quite a bit and like it's bumped up to like low-key you know

00:21:02.980 i i know lots of people won't be able to come but why is a guest list over 50 people

00:21:07.040 and when I was talking to Trump I was like oh like should we invite these people like really

00:21:12.800 and he was like I want to revive the acquaintance he's like that's the thing like doesn't just have

00:21:20.120 to be our close friends because that's what I was really going off last year it was a really nice

00:21:24.740 more intimate group and I really liked it because it was really comfortable and it was like the

00:21:28.720 closest people in my life this year we've like branched out a little bit I hope people aren't

00:21:33.440 listening and being like, wow, I'm one of those. I was not invited last year, but I'm invited this

00:21:38.580 year. Yeah. But it was just like, you know, I was like, why the hell not? Like, that's kind of

00:21:44.100 what I ended on before we sent the invite. I was like, you know, like, who cares? Like,

00:21:50.040 let's just invite some more people. Like, what's the worst that can happen, you know?

00:21:53.380 So I'm trying to lean in to that. Yeah. I think this conversation is all a Venn diagram of like

00:21:59.760 the community aspect parties and then us being like we have to be best friends with everyone

00:22:09.060 like no you can have acquaintances who you only see at parties I think I've been really leaning

00:22:12.780 into that this year especially because I just have a lot going on that I'm taking a step back

00:22:18.080 from like seeing as many people like being out like going to as many events and things and I

00:22:23.820 would see like if you're going to three events a week for example after work and you see the same

00:22:27.940 people and they are kind of acquaintancy but then you like you're seeing them three times a week

00:22:32.940 they turn into your closer friends that's nice like that progression from like acquaintance to

00:22:38.320 friend but also when you take a step back and then you go back into those spaces you're like

00:22:42.240 oh it's okay that like I haven't seen you for coffee one-on-one like this month or it's okay

00:22:48.320 that I only see you every two months at events like this because we're all busy and like that's

00:22:54.420 fine I still really enjoy the chats we have and catching up in your life like bi-monthly so yeah

00:22:59.560 I think that's also a good conversation is like not everyone has to be your best friend and also

00:23:05.460 with parties as well what really put me off hosting and I actually like used to hate hosting

00:23:10.360 like for one of my birthdays I had um a big kind of like dinner at my house and Loki it was so

00:23:17.560 lovely it was like long table in the backyard whatever but then I was like so stressed about

00:23:21.940 it like genuinely for like the weeks before and like touring that I was like wasn't worth it

00:23:27.360 I had a lovely time but I think as someone maybe if you aren't used to hosting it can feel like

00:23:35.360 this really big thing and it is like a big time money commitment thing but the more you do it

00:23:41.020 what I found is like it gets easier or like the pressure is lessened and you know you don't have

00:23:49.100 to like go all out it could be really simple you know sometimes I'm like let's just do takeaway or

00:23:55.520 yeah like I don't make need to make it look a certain way either right I think that's the added

00:24:00.800 level that's introduced with social media totally that feeds into it so much and that's something

00:24:07.160 that I try to not do with book clubs many listeners probably know we have a book club and we meet up

00:24:12.300 like once a month it can be really tempting like book clubs are having a moment at the moment and

00:24:17.780 it can be tempting to be like I'll bring this dish and like if I'm hosting like I'll make it

00:24:23.460 look a certain aesthetic way and then I can make content out of this thing I purposely like try to

00:24:29.040 one not take many photos and videos of a club and then like reject trying to make things look

00:24:35.720 aesthetic like if it just happens and I'm like oh yeah that's a cool photo I might post it

00:24:40.400 but it's not like content farm and I think a lot of people's social experiences now are also

00:24:46.620 content farms which adds this pressure to it so like for example your party talking about

00:24:50.640 I'm sure you were like wanted to make a video from it or like show your birthday party off

00:24:55.540 and like do you think that that added like an extra layer of pressure oh my god no because I'll

00:25:02.240 I'll be real honest with our listeners so this this isn't the birthday I was talking about but

00:25:06.720 last year do you know what I did like this is actually like wild to me right now and like

00:25:13.460 low-key I just wanted to have a really beautiful birthday and I had it at the Botanical Gardens

00:25:17.560 and I hired listeners I'm being real I hired people to like low-key style the event I mean

00:25:25.460 like these two Melbourne girls who I really like what they do um Daisy Soiree and I've had a bit

00:25:30.700 of a relationship with them and I was like you know what I don't really have like the stuff on

00:25:35.140 hand I didn't want to buy that much stuff that was another consideration but I was like I'm just

00:25:39.080 gonna pay them to make it look nice it was like I still provided the food and stuff and I was like

00:25:45.040 that's that was social media pressure I would say but to that point it's really hard to distinguish

00:25:50.860 because like we like pretty things and we like making things look nice too so it's like I get

00:25:55.740 that allure and I'll like I lean into that but then it's like okay but when does it lean too

00:26:00.880 far into social media territory I don't know and with that one that was like your 25th birthday so

00:26:06.580 it was like a bigger birthday oh yeah true true yeah I remember that being a reasoning for you

00:26:12.040 so I think it would be different if it was like every time you hosted anything you got it styled

00:26:17.680 you paid someone to style like your housewarming and your birthday and Tom's birthday like

00:26:24.200 then I'd be like oh Maxie okay it's okay you have style without a stylist I like the

00:26:33.440 part in this article as well that says this year pay your taxes resolve to throw two parties two

00:26:41.440 because two feels manageable and chain letter math dictates that if every party has at least 10

00:26:46.660 guests anything less is not a party and everyone observes host guests reciprocity then everyone

00:26:54.040 gets 20 party invitations a year possibly many more bear in mind that parties can be whatever

00:27:00.260 you want. A 15 person Superbowl party, a casual picnic in the park with 20 of your pals,

00:27:06.280 an over full house party, guest count unknown. They do not need to be expensive or formal or

00:27:12.260 in your own home. You don't need a theme unless you want one. You don't even need to buy anything

00:27:17.260 or clean up beforehand. If you're feeling particularly punk, all you have to do is invite

00:27:22.520 people in i started watching severance season one finally i was so late but after your recommendation

00:27:36.680 um also at the oz open you recommended season two i finally have dived in and i'm loving it so far

00:27:46.200 I think I'm up to episode five of season one.

00:27:50.040 So it's getting like a bit spicy now.

00:27:52.180 And I'm very intrigued, no idea what's going on,

00:27:55.280 but I can see why people are so obsessed with it.

00:28:00.460 You're in for such a treat or like a head spin with season two.

00:28:04.580 It's like another world, I will say.

00:28:07.640 But I'm so glad that you're on the severance train.

00:28:09.940 The week that this episode drops is also the week of season two grand final.

00:28:16.200 drop so i'm so glad we're having this conversation now me too so you haven't heard the plot of

00:28:22.060 severance which i hadn't really until you i was like they work in an office that's all i knew

00:28:27.940 about in the show a chip is implanted into the brains of employees of this big corporation

00:28:35.880 called lumen due to this chip the workers memories are split in two so when you go to work you go

00:28:43.540 down in this elevator and your innie in a person activates and that person is only conscious during

00:28:50.620 work hours so like nine to five and then you go back up in the elevator and your outie brain

00:28:57.200 kicks into gear and that's the person who will only remember the commute to and from the office

00:29:03.260 like weekends evenings everything you do outside of those nine to five hours

00:29:07.520 and never the twain shall meet kind of thing like you're so funny it's true like the innie

00:29:16.380 doesn't know about their life outside of work the outie doesn't know what they do for 40 hours a

00:29:21.560 week in work um it's a really interesting concept and so obviously because of this plot it's sci-fi

00:29:28.100 um pretty dystopian thriller energy that was a very good description yeah no notes on that one

00:29:36.060 and we're talking about this today because there was a guest essay in the new york times

00:29:43.600 which drew comparisons with this to the substance so the piece was called severance the substance

00:29:50.320 and are increasingly splintered selves and it was a guest piece by eric schritz gerbil and he

00:29:56.760 is a professor of philosophy at the university of california and also the author of the weirdness

00:30:03.100 of the world so for anyone as well who doesn't know the plot of the substance in it we see

00:30:09.280 elizabeth who is a fitness instructor very famous um fitness personality and instructor in her 50s 0.82

00:30:17.400 who takes a drug to splinter herself into a younger kind of clone version of herself and

00:30:25.820 the clones version's name is sue who's played by margaret qualley this piece builds on the themes

00:30:33.560 of these two kind of seminal pieces of work that we've seen in the last year a couple years obviously

00:30:39.900 severance came out in 2022 but it kind of builds on that and relates it to our modern life like

00:30:47.540 why are we talking about reading watching themes like this in the 2020s and in a post-COVID world

00:30:56.700 in my opinion so in the piece Eric talks about how these themes that we see in severance and

00:31:02.400 the substance can be applied in our own personal lives especially on social media you know he makes

00:31:07.000 comparisons about how you know the way we present ourselves on Instagram or Facebook is quote

00:31:13.420 wittier prettier more accomplished than the person your spouse or roommate knows

00:31:17.080 we've had this conversation many times I think we're all familiar with you know social media

00:31:22.860 shows the best version of yourself he also draws comparisons to what Karl Marx said in the 1800s

00:31:31.060 when he talked about the alienation of labor today people talk about not quote bringing the

00:31:37.080 whole self to work yeah it reads many of us strive to be one person here another person there another

00:31:42.520 the person there this is something I've been thinking about a lot specifically at work I've

00:31:49.420 been going through something at work like in my nine to five just like a bit of a stressful time

00:31:54.020 because it's nine to five like 40 hours a week it's beginning to like impact my well-being in

00:32:00.320 general and I think for months I've tried to keep it at work I've tried to like be like whatever

00:32:06.920 that's like what I deal with Monday to Friday nine to five and a lot of advice I've been getting

00:32:11.760 even from like people who are older than me like mentors and things have been like leave it at work

00:32:17.600 like don't think about it after work like all these things and I have done that for so long

00:32:22.140 and it's just kind of reached this tipping point where I'm like but I'm still me at work like I

00:32:27.980 don't really understand not to turn this into a therapy session but like the advice that's like

00:32:33.560 just compartmentalize and like don't let it take your energy from you and don't let it

00:32:39.740 like impact your life outside of work I'm like if I'm doing something or going through something

00:32:46.120 for 40 hours a week I'm only human and of course that's going to then start impacting like my

00:32:52.540 mental well-being and just the way I'm like moving through the world like outside of those hours and

00:33:00.040 that kind of relates to severance in terms of like your innie and your outie I feel like I've

00:33:03.880 been really trying to like keep them separate for so long especially like having this podcast with

00:33:10.100 you and like having a freelancy kind of career outside of this nine to five as well it's just

00:33:17.020 like tiring to just be separating so much and then trying to not let and like each each of them

00:33:24.560 affect the other because also my employer wouldn't like you know it doesn't but my employer is very

00:33:31.760 much like you can do culture club but like keep it separate kind of thing it's hard because it's

00:33:38.400 like you're right um we understand the advice of being like oh yeah like kind of compartmentalize

00:33:45.380 yourself but it's like at the end of the day how healthy is that you have the one brain like you're

00:33:50.160 still you can't really choose to clock in clock out of that and I guess that's what this piece

00:33:55.520 um really tries to investigate it's like who like what makes you you right because in the substance

00:34:01.340 and severance they challenge that notion of like if you are in your body then you're you because

00:34:07.000 in both cases or like if you have your brain you're you um in in these cases like that is um

00:34:13.800 challenge and we're asked we're being asked like what happens if that's not the case

00:34:18.920 and I think what Eric's um trying to say as well it's like are we putting that on ourselves now

00:34:24.960 Are we consciously entering that kind of world where we're presenting ourselves differently

00:34:31.840 on social media or trying to present ourselves differently at work?

00:34:36.400 Are we willingly being part of like the severed process essentially?

00:34:40.980 I feel that's so hard.

00:34:42.700 Like I've been feeling guilty for feeling crappy about a situation when I'm not getting

00:34:49.040 paid for it, right?

00:34:50.100 I've been feeling guilty when I'm like thinking about work after work because I know that it's

00:34:56.500 like that's free labor like you're not getting paid right now why even thinking about it you

00:35:00.700 should think about your personal life and that's like compounding onto those feelings that I'm

00:35:05.520 already having about like a stressful situation at work so it's it's very interesting to be

00:35:13.380 watching severance like at the same time as well yeah eric also talks about like the tools we

00:35:20.840 already have that lend itself into this world so he writes future technological developments could

00:35:28.320 render this fragmentation and even more acute daily perplexity designer drugs might increasingly

00:35:34.020 allow us to switch into one self for work another for parties another for bedtime if artificial

00:35:40.440 intelligence systems ever become conscious, a possibility that neuroscientists, psychologists,

00:35:46.240 computer scientists, and philosophers increasingly, but by no means uniformly, take seriously,

00:35:52.740 they too might fragment, perhaps in radical and unfamiliar ways, merging and splitting,

00:35:58.820 rewriting their memories, strategically managing and altering their values and personalities.

00:36:03.940 i think this conversation is interesting given where we are at in technological advancements

00:36:11.800 and i think so much of gen z and well people's stress at the moment in general not just young

00:36:18.720 people but like everyone's stress is like we are working with these computers and ai and

00:36:24.940 at this speed of like technological advancement with brains that are still like

00:36:31.080 cavemen like do you know what I mean in terms of like we need shelter food family community sex

00:36:41.640 etc and everything else is like not what our brain is used to it's kind of that like meme

00:36:50.760 that's like why am I I don't know why am I on a computer when I should be eating berries kind of

00:36:54.800 energy but yeah I do think like this conversation of am I myself when I'm at my job and then why do

00:37:03.400 I feel guilty after work and like what I was just saying my grandparents who like worked in like the

00:37:09.080 60s would be like what are you talking about you know like this is very modern kind of anxieties

00:37:14.660 and yeah I think this article is interesting in the way that it relates to the two of like the

00:37:20.340 biggest media moments of the past couple years the piece finishes on a point that reads our

00:37:29.020 concepts of personhood and identity were forged by a particular evolutionary social and developmental

00:37:34.800 history in which body memory values personality and social relationships typically aligned and

00:37:42.440 exceptions mostly fell into predictable patterns by inviting us to rethink the boundaries of the

00:37:48.020 self in an era of technological change severance and the substance disrupt these old concepts

00:37:54.540 today they read as dystopic science fiction too soon we may remember them as prophetic

00:38:01.020 it's now time for our recommendations where we bring up something that we've really liked

00:38:11.080 reading watching or listening to lately jazz what do you have for us this week this week i'm

00:38:17.340 recommending our book club read which is The Coin by Yasmin Zahir. So the story follows a rich

00:38:25.300 Palestinian school teacher in New York City post-2016 who grapples with displacement and

00:38:32.540 American consumerism. This piece of literary fiction took me by surprise and I think when

00:38:40.540 we spoke about it in book club it made me appreciate it a little bit more hearing everyone 0.65

00:38:45.140 else's opinions the narrator is basically spiraling in her job she's a school teacher as I said 0.80

00:38:53.200 teaching for underprivileged boys and she's really grappling with the idea of self and who she is

00:39:01.780 especially being a stateless Palestinian woman but also she's wealthy living in the most capitalist

00:39:09.000 country in the world she becomes preoccupied with purity cleanliness and the story kind of 0.60

00:39:18.660 follows her over this period of like unraveling I love the way that it moves through memories

00:39:25.760 quite seamlessly each chapter is quite short so you're in a new scene constantly which I think

00:39:32.820 helps move it because it does get quite cerebral and also sometimes it's like what's real and

00:39:40.140 what's not so I think if you go into it with that open mind then that helps it's not like a plot

00:39:46.540 driven book it's very much like kind of like my year of rest and relaxation energy of that kind of

00:39:52.580 we see a woman's internal monologue as she's going through this big thing so I recommend

00:40:01.360 and this it was great to read a novel by an American Palestinian author and enjoyed it

00:40:08.860 you enjoyed it too right Mags? I did and I feel like it made for great book club fodder where

00:40:14.500 there's a lot to talk about like when I was reading it at times I'm like whoa a lot of this

00:40:19.100 like metaphor and allegory I was like going over my head a little bit but you can kind of take as

00:40:25.040 much as you want from it while you're reading it as well like you can read it quite surface level

00:40:29.980 or dig deeper between the between the lines as they say but yeah i gave this four stars

00:40:37.120 and what are you watching reading recommending to us today max i'm recommending diana reed's

00:40:44.040 newest novel signs of damage this came out earlier this month and i feel like it's not

00:40:50.460 getting talked about much actually and we know diana reed is such a prolific incredible young

00:40:56.500 Australian novelist we've actually had her on the podcast before you might know her first novel

00:41:02.280 Love and Virtue as well this one is interesting because I think it was first pegged as like

00:41:08.500 being really different to her other novels that center on like two young women you know

00:41:15.340 grappling with moral ambiguities but I feel like in a lot of ways it's very similar in this one

00:41:22.180 where those themes are still very stark, but I do think Diana has stretched herself out more

00:41:27.880 creatively. So this book leans more into the thriller world as well, which is quite new for

00:41:33.900 her. And in an interview with Fashion Journal, she says that she would describe this genre as

00:41:39.520 summer noir, which I hadn't really heard before, but you know, it's where dark events happen in

00:41:46.200 idyllic settings which is so this book which I loved she also said in this interview that she

00:41:52.440 was really interested in trauma narratives but she wanted to kind of subvert them and that's

00:41:57.480 kind of what underpins this book plot wise like it's kind of hard to sum up but essentially

00:42:06.060 there's a couple of different time periods and one time we see this family and a family friend

00:42:14.640 go on a holiday to the south of France where an incident happens with a friend when she's 13 years

00:42:22.560 old and then we also jump ahead 16 years later when that woman then has a similar incident and

00:42:33.440 essentially I'm trying to be really vague here as you can bloody tell but we we kind of examine

00:42:39.760 what happens so in this uh in this book we kind of examine what happens between those two times

00:42:46.740 and how trauma and perceptions play out again keeping it real vague here uh I just think it was

00:42:55.240 a really engaging book leaves you with quite a few questions it's also still quintessentially

00:43:02.700 Diana so I feel like if you're a fan of her writing I do think you will enjoy this one

00:43:07.840 that's that's what i've got to say about it love i think you're right i haven't seen too much talk

00:43:14.180 about this one i was like surprised when i was like all of a sudden it's out wow i've been like

00:43:20.260 waiting for this for a while and it was out but this is an intriguing review i get that you can't

00:43:24.920 reveal too much of the plot um so yeah consider me intrigued can i please borrow next time i see you

00:43:31.920 yes you can okay two book reviews this week so i think that's a sign that the weather is cooling

00:43:40.920 down a lot in melbourne we're reading more so that brings us to the end of the episode

00:43:46.260 thank you so much for tuning in today we've loved having you along and we will talk to you next time

00:43:53.560 bye

Culture Club - March 17, 2025

Why Aren't You Hosting Parties？

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