00:01:21.340So we're talking about this show today.
00:01:23.340it's a cooking show slash crafting show slash aspirational lifestyle slash we want to know
00:01:30.920something about the woman who is married into the royal family and we decided to do the show
00:01:38.380because you were posting about it in your instagram stories but also you were getting
00:01:41.620a ton of responses from other people who were also watching it yes and what were the takes
00:01:46.620that you were hearing from other people great question first of all i'm so thrilled to be back
00:01:52.760to be talking about this i have so many thoughts about it and you know when you're so when you have
00:01:58.480so many thoughts about it that you want to like say them all at the same time and you also kind
00:02:01.540of want to lie down like you just can't get it all out um and i don't even feel fully uh like i
00:02:09.160have it figured out yet but um yes i started posting like are you watching this on my instagram
00:02:14.860stories and and um i started getting a lot of responses and a lot of them were they were like
00:02:22.420personal to be honest about her something about her was really bothering people something about
00:02:28.780she seemed disingenuous she seemed fake it didn't seem deep enough like there's something there and
00:02:35.140that like always I felt it too but it always rubs me a little the wrong way to um just be talking
00:02:42.200ish uh about women although there's something behind it and especially someone like Megan who
00:02:49.280I think like and it's very important for us to acknowledge this like so much of the criticism
00:02:54.260of her which discourse around her really varies according to location right like the I think a
00:03:02.380lot of people might not know that the conversation about her like it's very different in the U.S.
00:03:07.880than it is in Canada than it is yeah in the UK definitely in the UK it's very toxic yeah and0.56
00:03:14.900it is absolutely shot through with racism totally and also like ideas about britishness and all
00:03:21.780sorts of other things right yes and so we are not pretending like that does not exist and we're
00:03:27.420going to return to that thought over and over again but i think sometimes if someone starts
00:03:31.780to have a conversation about her and doesn't acknowledge from the top that this is like
00:03:35.720a really important part of her image that often gets ignored when people just are like well i
00:03:42.280don't like her i know what is that about right right right as you're saying like she's been
00:03:46.540through it um often very unfairly in the uk she had like the british tabloids just spreading
00:03:52.340racist misleading stories about her and her husband and also like you're right that in the
00:03:57.460uk even the the discourse about it still it's so um like pregnant with so many other things
00:04:05.040that in the u.s it's just sort of like a novelty that uh it just feels lighter here the conversation
00:04:10.360about feels lighter here no and like you cannot disarticulate a conversation about her from
00:04:15.520conversations about princess kate right like there is this like very severe contrast that people
00:04:22.060use about like okay what kind of royal like how have they cowed to the the rules and the the
00:04:28.880performance standards of the royalty like one seems to have been able to conform with much
00:04:34.940more ease i wonder why that is right and like as we talk about why megan is even doing this show
00:04:40.840right a lot like that's always going to be couched in they severed ties with the royal family and
00:04:48.060moved to the united states and are no longer like performing as royals yeah and why is that
00:04:54.880because the royal family was like endlessly shitty to them right right so that is there
00:05:00.180That is there. Also, another thing that I think is there, which actually I'm curious for your thoughts on, because you were on my sort of late podcast, a podcast I used to host when we talked about Katy Perry, is just this idea that like, you know, we're both women that do our work publicly.
00:05:18.120I'm currently on your podcast like I don't love to take great pleasure in like disliking women who0.88
00:05:24.560are trying to be themselves in public it's hard to be yourself in public um and they don't need
00:05:29.520to be doing it and they're also doing it for all the people who are enjoying them but that said
00:05:33.680like when we were talking about Katy Perry and like her sort of specific brand of annoying you
00:05:38.700were sort of like well she's a celebrity like we are allowed to critique her in some ways um yeah
00:05:44.000No, and she is she's putting herself out there for public consumption and celebrities don't get to set the rules about like you were only allowed to say nice things about me.0.97
00:05:52.840And I think as we'll see as this conversation enrolls, a lot of what we're going to talk about about this show is about the style decisions of the show.
00:06:06.600Like you can tell that there is a warmth at the heart of her.
00:06:09.640And how is the show managed to bungle that so severely?
00:06:13.460And that's part of why I only wanted to do this show with someone who was not just, we weren't just going to talk about like, what is the celebrity image of Meghan Markle?
00:06:21.920And we were going to talk about what is going on with this as a cooking show.
00:06:28.760The majority of the responses that I was getting, just to kind of finish that point, was a mix of, I don't want to dislike her, but I'm really struggling.
00:06:55.360This first one is going to get into the performance of race, wealth, gender, everything.
00:07:00.760It comes from Yael, and Melody is going to read it.
00:07:03.640I'm so excited for you to talk about With Love, Megan.
00:07:07.040I have so many thoughts and questions about the show.0.99
00:07:09.540Number one, she obviously enjoys crafting, homemaking, cooking, etc. But to me, the vibe is off. Her body language seems quite tense, turned inward and slightly uncomfortable. She also seems unable to have friendly banter or a real conversation where she has to express herself verbally in the moment comfortably. I know she's the executive producer, but why didn't anyone step in and tell her that she needed help in these areas? Is that even something that could be done?
00:07:37.200Number two, this is a lifestyle show where the average viewer is miles away from having the resources, like time and money, to achieve what Megan is espousing.
00:07:46.220And there's been a lot of criticism of the show for being unrelatable, both in terms of the content, like having the time to make a balloon arch, and the setting, her designer beige clothes, the Montecito estate.
00:07:57.740On the other hand, what one person calls unrelatable, another calls aspirational, or even positive escapism, like watching a fantasy lifestyle for fun.
00:08:07.780For this genre, what specifically saves an unrelatable lifestyle show and makes it feel aspirational or escapist instead?
00:08:16.500What could have made Megan's show better to get across those feelings?
00:08:20.400Let's just start with the first part of the question.
00:08:22.900First of all, Yael, incredible questions.
00:08:27.740So the first part of the question, what did you make of this reading of the vibes?
00:08:33.320Yeah. You know, the vibes are definitely off. And the response to that feels so overwhelming that it doesn't feel subjective. Like it doesn't feel like, oh, some people feel that like she's a little off.
00:08:50.980Like, it really does feel like somehow in this show, she's being kind of bad on tape.
00:09:17.300I think it's actually the worst in the first episode.
00:09:20.340Absolutely. I don't know if Netflix did a traditional film the pilot and then take it to series or which is like what they would have done in network television or if they made the order and then made all of them. But it has like extreme pilot vibes in terms of trying things out, trying to figure out like clearly everyone was doing this for the first time.
00:09:44.100absolutely they were like i guess we'll have your like your your makeup artist come and be
00:09:49.260your first guest um and there are a couple places where she talks sort of directly at the camera but
00:09:57.740it's a scance and it has the effect of making her look almost cross-eyed and she's not cross-eyed
00:10:02.840right it's just like the way that they were filming it and i think that that then takes you
00:10:07.800out as a viewer you're like what so did does she acknowledge the camera people like what's that
00:10:14.220voice that's sometimes off screen is the other executive producer a character in this show
00:10:18.760like the the rules of the show and how it will work are not established they're very loosey-goosey
00:10:26.800and i think they get a little bit more refined as the series goes on i've admittedly only watched
00:10:32.060their first four um but they still i think like they don't know exactly what this show is other
00:10:39.820than it is a show with megan markle yes and this is like a very netflix problem where they're like
00:10:45.520the star is the ip right whether the ip is like i don't know a cartoon character or we have a
00:10:51.480celebrity that's all we need right right right i think that i mean as i was watching i was like
00:10:57.020thinking as a producer and thinking i watched the whole show and uh around episode i think
00:11:03.360three she has the chef roy choi on and i was like oh she's way more comfortable one she seems more
00:11:09.920comfortable with men for whatever reason uh two she seems more comfortable learning something
00:11:14.640and i actually like her more when she's learning something instead of teaching me something that
00:11:18.800it doesn't feel like she's an expert in necessarily like that would be a better way to sort of frame
00:11:23.800the show is like learn with Megan or whatever she seems more comfortable crafting um I actually
00:11:29.420liked a lot of the crafting stuff um and that happens later like some of her friends I don't
00:11:34.680know it did feel a little like why would you start with that first guest why like why would you start
00:11:41.460with an episode where everybody seems nervous and no one seems quite sure we're gonna talk a lot more
00:11:46.280too about like the situational weirdness in terms of not shooting at her house but let's talk about
00:11:51.300that second question about relatability yes because i think it is such a demand and so weird
00:11:58.220it is really weird i'm really curious what you think because as i was reading that question and
00:12:03.160as i was seeing there's a lot of sort of reels on the internet that are talking about these
00:12:07.860contradictions like she's wearing a x hundred thousand dollar pinky ring while she's you know1.00
00:12:12.680making a balloon arch or whatever she's a princess right exactly and like that contradiction shouldn't
00:12:18.820bother us like we listen to rich people all day didn't Gwyneth Paltrow say once like I am who I
00:12:23.860am I can't pretend to be making $25,000 and everyone's like yeah we don't want you to be
00:12:28.160making $25,000 like I mean like maybe these days this should bother us as like our government's
00:12:34.320being dismantled by like TV villains or whatever but like she's just crafting at the end of the
00:12:39.360day and like yeah if you really want to make a balloon arch like you'll find the time to make
00:12:43.360a balloon arch at any socioeconomic level this is not saying you should make a balloon arch
00:12:47.420every single day of your life it's saying if you want to have a kids party that like actually is
00:12:52.580more fun for you to create than the kids will have at the party then here is how to make the
00:12:56.880balloon arch uh i should also correct myself she is not a princess she is a duchess um and maybe
00:13:03.420was a duchess there are people yeah no i i don't know there are people who get so up in arms about
00:13:09.320this stuff i'm like well i don't ask you to call me dr peterson i have a phd um the other thing
00:13:17.100that it reminds me of is there's actually really, really fascinating scholarship about early
00:13:22.860television. So we're talking 1940s, 1950s. A lot of it was shot live. This was before
00:13:30.500television was filmed. So it was shot more like a radio show. And there was a moment in the 1940s
00:13:37.480and 50s where they're trying to figure out like, okay, so some of the stuff that we do is going
00:13:41.280to just be filmed radio shows. And some of the stuff that we're going to do, we're going to try
00:13:46.360to use kind of washed up movie stars. And I've done a lot of work on looking at Gloria Swanson's
00:13:54.980early television show. She had one in the 1940s and one in the 1950s. And there was this difficulty
00:14:01.260of trying to translate this understanding of larger than life movie stars. So Gloria Swanson
00:14:08.400was like the queen of silent Hollywood. She had a gold plated bathtub. That was the conversation1.00
00:14:15.980about her during the height of her fandom in the 1920s was like she is pure glamour and she is
00:14:21.920nothing like you right and that was how audiences related to her as a movie star they had never
00:14:28.160seen her in anything other than like on a movie screen which was larger than life right looking
00:14:34.520just exquisite right and then here she is on like a crappy tv screen how do you try to like make
00:14:42.120yourself like how to de-glamorize yourself for television yeah that's also holding on to that
00:14:47.540star appeal this is really muddled in the years since especially now that this like since the
00:14:53.160the streaming era but they're up until like the 1990s there really was this delineation between
00:14:59.760like this is a star for television right and this is a star for movies and sometimes someone would
00:15:05.300transcend that like george clooney but even like jennifer aniston to me she still signifies
00:15:10.940television star. Interesting. Yes. Well, meanwhile, when we saw I saw the Maria Callas movie and
00:15:18.520Angelina Jolie came on stage and I was like, that's a movie star. Maybe she's our last movie
00:15:23.300star. She just is in your head like that. Right. Right. And I think that Megan is 100 percent a
00:15:31.180TV star. Yeah. I think she's on Suits, which is the most TV of like a very classic TV, TV show.0.92
00:15:37.760um a billion episodes incredibly formulaic um something that a lot of people have returned to
00:15:44.320in part because of her but like she's not even the main character um she is a supporting tv actress
00:15:50.200yeah and has the glamour that is appropriate to that and to that role but now she's a royal even
00:15:57.160though she's not like no longer has royal duties like she still has that glamour and that
00:16:02.900celebritization affixed to her and so it's very difficult for her to reconcile those two yes
00:16:09.620and it's very uncomfortable to kind of watch it and also you kind of watch like she's referring
00:16:15.920back to different stages of her life and she's her class status has sort of changed a few times
00:16:21.080in her life she's gone from like she grew up working class she went to this sort of upper
00:16:25.880class but tv star sort of level and then she became royalty and but when she refers back to
00:16:32.100her childhood or when she refers back to suit something feels disjointed yeah about it is it
00:16:37.320the third episode where she's talking about like how la she is like i'm an la kid yeah and that is
00:16:43.000that's part of her and part of how she i think conceives of herself but then you like contrast
00:16:48.820that with the episode before when mindy k looks like where are your clothes from right which is
00:16:55.380so interesting to me i'm like her clothes are like you know even if there are moderate pieces
00:17:01.740like they're all rich people right and and she had like why as an editor you're like oh we want
00:17:08.420her to say because she says i'm very high low and she's like my pants are from zara but then her
00:17:13.440sweater is from jenny kane and i think a lot of people are like oh my gosh who can afford that i'm
00:17:17.640like a royal can afford that but i do think that this demand that she be relatable really stems
00:17:24.960from that that original balance of her image which is as a television star that's really interesting
00:19:15.100But with this, something feels, like, painful and profoundly missing.
00:19:20.020And it's easy to say it's like soul or humility or something, but that's not all it is.
00:19:26.860And it does just kind of, there's something that feels sort of AI generated about it, partially because there's just like all these sort of, I don't know, you know, I, she'll say things like, oh, my God, I love hearing the meaningful stories behind things.
00:19:42.600And you're like, but what does that mean?
00:19:43.840Or like, you know, it's just about joy.
00:19:45.520And you're like, but what does that mean?
00:19:48.340but there's just no I maybe there's just no tension I don't know there's nothing that it's
00:19:53.640rubbing up against it feels bizarrely empty I can also tell you like as an audio editor that that
00:20:00.320little clip is from like 10 different yes yeah no and I remarked just soundbites I remarked during
00:20:07.240the show itself not during that part but other parts during that first episode specifically
00:20:12.020that the foley and that's when you like have to go in and do like pickups essentially like you
00:20:17.740have to add in commentary and once you notice where foley's are both in the audio but then
00:20:24.640also the fact that like most of the time if someone's adding in a foley there's no image
00:20:29.020of the person talking right they're not facing camera or yeah b-roll it's all over the place
00:20:34.540it's everywhere and i think especially for the first episode that was like notes from on top
00:20:40.920right being like we need to know what this is about and i think like that last scene what we
00:20:45.460just heard happens at the end of an episode where they've like made this food together and then they
00:20:51.060go on into this vista that also looks like ai yeah she's like it's not a green screen but it
00:20:57.880looks and and part of like they're evoking it's not a green screen and one of the reasons they're
00:21:02.840saying that i feel like subconsciously or consciously is because netflix has become
00:21:07.180notorious for shooting with green screens yeah yeah instead of location yeah that actually that
00:21:14.020quote comes at the end of the entire show it's like not a spoiler because it doesn't say anything
00:21:18.780but it comes at the end of the entire show um and then refers back to some of the parts right at the
00:21:23.760end of that first episode where she says it's not a green screen so it does feel like it's already
00:21:27.960happened and it sounds like it feels like you actually seen it when really um it was at the on
00:21:33.560episode eight but it's like that's another example of just sort of like you could watch an episode
00:21:38.760and feel that you had watched it because it all feels sort of the same wait so it's not at the
00:21:43.820end of episode one is that what you're saying no that quote is from the end of the last episode
00:21:49.520oh no i think she says it at the end of episode one too this isn't a green oh yeah then she's
00:21:55.920then she's done it twice um and i think that uh it and then they like cheers to love and i was like
00:22:02.820why are you cheering to like why are you cheersing to that like they they didn't talk about love at
00:22:08.640all. And then I was like, oh, it's the name of the show. Yeah. If I were an essay editor and this was
00:22:15.740an essay, I'd be like, there are too many strands in this essay. Like, let's go back to the
00:22:20.800beginning and figure out what this show is about. And I think that that also makes me think about
00:22:26.640something that Hunter Harris and Allie Jones brought up in their back and forth about the
00:22:31.720show, which we'll link to in the show notes, which is that we have to position this as
00:22:37.440One of the very few things that have come out of blockbuster production deals that Meghan and Harry signed with Netflix and with Spotify, this happened several years ago and nothing has really emerged.
00:22:51.280And that this is also a show that is functioning as a sort of rebranding after they launched this jam company that then they had to rename because they hadn't checked to see if anyone else had the copyright already.
00:23:05.340Like, it was just fumbled in a way that is very curious. And so to me, like, if you know that backstory that they had tried to come up with a concept for a show for a long time, then it makes sort of the Frankenstein element of it make a little bit more sense.
00:23:22.000Yes. As an editor, you watch it and you're like, this is a mess. And it makes sense because actually, I don't think they really it is true clear and that they didn't really know what it was going to be until after they filmed.
00:23:32.480Yes. And that's the thing is that you should never. It makes sense when the pilot doesn't necessarily know what it's doing or is kind of back edited to make it make sense with what they've decided the theme of the show is. But then it also doesn't totally make sense as the show goes on either. So, yes.
00:23:49.020today's episode is sponsored by ollie all right so my dog steve does this like sound only early
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00:27:34.900Okay, next question comes from Lori. Do you think that having critics watch all
00:27:39.720eight episodes at once contributed to all of the negative responses to her show?
00:27:44.920I admit the first episode wasn't amazing, but I find that it's a soothing show when watched slowly
00:30:07.400But then, Anne, but it fluctuates because sometimes she's like, I know this and I'm
00:30:12.360going to teach it to you because i am a crepe expert or like you know i am a flower arranging
00:30:17.220expert or like you know this is why let me just add a little bit of lemon you'd be shocked to
00:30:21.940know that it just brightens the whole dish and you know and then other times uh in an effort
00:30:27.420maybe to be relatable which i think is good admit when you don't know things like it's great to say
00:30:31.640like yeah i actually i've never pickled a uh but because it's juxtaposed with i do know uh so often
00:30:39.620I don't know. It's just confused. Meanwhile, Selena Gomez's whole show is about not knowing.
00:30:43.720Yes. Like, at least it's a clear premise. Yeah. I also think that every time she brings up
00:30:49.760something from her own life in an attempt to be relatable, that it immediately sends your mind
00:30:55.260thinking about her celebrity text, right? So, like, she talks about how, like, oh, in my house,
00:31:02.500like, I make everything for my family every breakfast, right? And I'm like, huh, interesting.
00:31:07.600and i'm just like picturing it or she's like my husband she never says harry she's like my husband
00:31:12.580immediately puts salt on anything without even tasting it and i'm like right a fellow salt pig
00:31:18.700just like me um and it just like evokes that that big like really true the very large shadow
00:31:27.200of her her royal family whereas like i don't know when oprah talks about stedman you're like oh
00:31:32.440stedman like he's just almost like it's like a um it's like a prop right or like when martha
00:31:37.000talked about her husband like it's a prop right yes i also um this question made me go back and
00:31:43.500watch some of uh selena gomez's show and um i looked back at some of the critical reviews of
00:31:48.980both of those shows and um they were both mostly just called like i think uh new york magazine
00:31:54.300called them utterly random there was just like an energy to the critical response that was just like
00:32:00.640they're famous let them what's the big deal yeah whereas like the critical reception to this is
00:32:05.940like the stakes are high everybody's obsessed and wants to know about this woman and so it's
00:32:11.740that different in that way but it did make me wonder like actually and I'm curious what you
00:32:16.940think like why do we want to keep watching her and this show like why is this show still so popular
00:32:22.080even if people are um don't like her or whatever like is it because she's a royal and the storyline
00:32:29.000is irresistible and we're doing what you say we're like thinking of her in her home and there's
00:32:33.400something about that that's sort of like um candy or tasty in some way is it because she's like
00:32:39.200actually profoundly watchable even if people find her cringy like or is it just because she's really
00:32:45.060pretty what is it i think it's the promise of revelation people want to know more and the
00:32:51.720reason that they've been led to believe that they would get more is the oprah interview and harry's
00:32:57.780yes yes because i think sometimes people are like well she has a right to privacy and i'm like well
00:33:02.400Yes, of course she does. But then also she has strategically used revelations as a way to establish this brand. Right. Yes. And so I think that part of the dissatisfaction with this show is that people want a certain level of authentic disclosure. And I understand her reticence to provide it. But the precedent was set. Does that make sense?
00:33:30.020totally exactly like you chose to do a television show well and if she hadn't provided those
00:33:37.720disclosures before then i think people would be like oh she's an incredibly private person
00:33:42.280right who's not going to talk about this and who is going to say only my husband and not harry
00:33:47.480on the show but there have been these previous attempts to say like this is what really happened
00:33:54.760This is what is really happening. This is the way that we want to engage as celebrities with the institution of the royal family. Like we want to speak truth to power in that way. Right. And then that's not happening with this show. Totally. And like a cooking show shouldn't do that. Like we should. But again, that's the unfair expectation that I think is levied on her.
00:34:18.220Yes. You know, that reminds me of Vulture had a sort of scathing review of the show. And the end was really interesting. It's Catherine von Arendach. And she said that Meghan comes off in short like a member of the British royal family, afraid of showing vulnerability, obsessed with appearances and seeking affirmation from a public she cannot be part of. Nothing could be weirder or more depressing.
00:34:43.480Yes. And that's true because she's promised us the opposite. That feels even worse somehow.
00:34:49.200Right. I feel better. I felt that throughout. I'm like, oh, this is very British. Having a tea
00:34:57.420time for your kids. There are these kind of interesting connections that go back to royalty.
00:35:05.520I wonder if that was executive producers who were like, what if we did a tea time with your kids
00:36:46.540So first of all, can I just admit that I was like, I turned to Charlie, who I had watched
00:36:52.580the first episode with me, and I was like, isn't Montecito in Southern California? He's like, no,
00:36:58.400it's in the beautiful part of near the bay. I was like, they never locate us.
00:37:03.340like we where are we true where are we um yes all we know is that there's this green screen
00:37:10.680and that she's able to grow lots of berries um yeah i just i i don't know enough about california
00:37:18.520to like have known that and they're assuming a lot and i think that also leads to some of the
00:37:23.640difficulty but the fact that like it's not their home and maybe we would have assumed that but then
00:37:31.060they call out that it's not their home or they call out that the blender is new that it would be
00:37:36.340one thing if they're like hey we're in this test kitchen like isn't this weird so it's not funny
00:37:41.680it's just odd yes that's right i think they went like half the way yes and it didn't satisfy either
00:37:48.940side it's like it my sense is that it felt like they were actually doing something a little bit
00:37:53.680different by like acknowledging like you know we're gonna say like it's not my house we have
00:37:59.340a crew here we're breaking the fourth wall like we're cool we're real you know what i mean like
00:38:04.160i need privacy a lot of weird shit just happened to me and like i don't want people in my house
00:38:08.300if she just kept talking and said that i would feel so relieved like if she just went all the
00:38:14.100way then i would feel like she was a real person and i think you're right that like there are times
00:38:18.860in the press where she has sounded like a real person and so she just i don't think she ever
00:38:24.860really gets there on the show maybe like two times maybe once she's playing mahjong maybe
00:38:29.660once with roy choy but really she um really holds herself back from getting there so you get kind of
00:38:35.860stuck in the middle and it's and it's not in a good place to be so at the beginning of the second
00:38:40.040episode she walks in and she's like i was up so late last night or like i was up early because
00:38:44.980i was like what am i gonna make from mindy cayley right exactly you know thought about that
00:38:50.440and then she's like oh but you're here dp i need to make you coffee and so it becomes this thing
00:38:58.760about like i'm the consummate hostess which is kind of interesting right like okay she cannot
00:39:05.300turn off hostess mode and i would love to hear her like talk a little bit about that like
00:39:09.940sometimes i'm exhausted like sometimes it's difficult to to feel like you always have to
00:39:16.360be making bath salts yes yeah all of that and again that would be if she was leaning more into
00:39:22.240the relatable right but if she was leaning more into the martha unrelatable don't talk about how
00:39:30.180you woke up in the middle of the night like you know exactly what you are making like you are an0.78
00:39:34.240assured hostess who always has their shit under control yes absolutely i felt that way also um0.97
00:39:41.060there's this huge conflict with there's this like kind of theme throughout the show that we're not0.98
00:39:45.540in pursuit of perfection yes and so she sort of like has a perfect piece of paper and she makes
00:39:51.220and she's gonna she's saying you know we're not in pursuit of perfection we're just trying to
00:39:54.640make something look cute and but then she uses pencil lines to create perfect lines so that she
00:40:00.580never goes outside the line and you we're watching the whole thing and you're thinking like
00:40:04.340you are in pursuit of perfection you do seem very preoccupied with perfection um and uh you seem
00:40:13.480pretty like wound tight in some ways and i don't mean that as a as a as a criticism like there are
00:40:20.560a lot of people in this world who are watching who also are the way you are i mean that and take
00:40:24.460great pleasure like that's yeah and take great pleasure of watching that yes and it would be
00:40:29.000like infinitely more interesting if you just acknowledge this like very human conflict um
00:40:34.800yeah and and it doesn't get there and i do feel that and i actually wanted to ask you like
00:40:39.820you know as the show is sort of stuck in a number of things it starts to feel dated right like it's
00:40:47.060not exactly a cooking lifestyle show it's not exactly a morning show it does feel a bit like
00:40:53.480daisy said like a bbc english country show but it's not that it does feel a little like aspirational
00:41:00.560content creator instagram real tig influencer thing yeah but it's not quite that either and0.95
00:41:07.160then there is a little bit of trad wife in it like yeah she really does very specifically gender
00:41:11.760hosting as hostessing yes as a verb uh yeah and i found that really interesting and i wanted to
00:41:16.940you know there's this clip where she corrects mindy kaling about like it's sussex now that's
00:41:22.180very like it's gone all over the place and i think a lot of people are using that as like
00:41:26.500first evidence that she's not that close with mindy kaling um but second evidence that like
00:41:32.760there is some confusion maybe is not the right word but maybe evokes what i'm trying to say here
00:41:40.440in terms of how she wants to relate to her royalness but to me it also she then the next
00:41:47.900part of it is she's like it's so important to me to have the same last name as my kids right
00:41:53.280for us all to have this name as a family which is feels very outdated i mean fine it's a fine
00:42:00.380decision it's totally fine but it's not like a complex thought it's like not a original thought
00:42:05.500it's like actually the most traditional thought uh-huh yeah yeah and and this is also i think
00:42:12.120one of the fascinating things about being a celebrity who is also talking about their
00:42:18.800domesticity and this reminds me of a lot of discourse from like old hollywood too or even
00:42:25.240like marilyn monroe about how they were such good hostesses and i think a lot of it is trying0.81
00:42:31.560to get at this complex anxiety about the fact that they're actually working women yeah a hollywood
00:42:37.500movie star is a working woman outside of the home so how do you quell like the panic over a powerful1.00
00:42:44.560woman who makes her own money is you emphasize like how good they are at making steak and how1.00
00:42:49.240much time that they spend at doing this whole second job of being a good hostess and so like1.00
00:42:55.040here we have Megan doing the job of being on a television show and someone who has always had a
00:43:01.300job who's also talking about how she has like all of this time to do all of these other things
00:43:08.600right and I think that's part of the old-fashionedness too right or like the0.96
00:43:14.040the outdatedness of the show is this idea that like a woman should have a full-time job out of0.91
00:43:19.420the home and then also have the time to make 150 jars of jam. Totally. And yes, she probably,0.99
00:43:25.180I don't know about her domestic hub and I don't know how much she spends of her days doing other
00:43:31.840jobs, but just the idea that is forwarded by this show is of you should do it all. Yes, totally.
00:43:38.720And I think maybe actually it feels sort of like a disloyalty to a lot of people who've been following her story who like originally thought of her as someone who was like breaking a lot of traditions, who was like bringing like a black woman coming American coming into the royal family and like maybe modernizing it like somebody who might come in and modernize a lot of very outdated traditional things then comes out with a show that's like extremely outdated and traditional in many ways.
00:44:05.780And, like, you know, the attraction to it is the same as why people follow these, you know, homesteading accounts.
00:44:11.740Like, I understand why that idea is alluring.
00:44:18.060But we can also talk about why that is alluring.
00:44:21.600The last thing I'll say about perfection is there's this great moment in the first episode when she's making the cake with her makeup artist.
00:44:30.080And they're like, and he's like, I don't know how to put the frosting on.
00:49:34.220And also, like, I think simply because of Meghan's identity, like, because she is not British, because she is black, because she doesn't come from, like, a royal tradition, because she's always compared to Kate.