Culture Study Podcast - September 30, 2026


How an Article of Clothing Goes Viral

BONUS EPISODE: Dungeon Crawler Carl's Utilikilt Masculinity [preview]

Episode Stats


Length

57 minutes

Words per minute

173.32

Word count

10,005

Sentence count

535

Harmful content

Misogyny

8

sentences flagged

Hate speech

9

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Hi, everyone. This is the Culture Study Podcast, and I'm Anne Helen Peterson.
00:00:11.600 And I'm Cheryl Wischoper. I'm a journalist, and I cover fashion, beauty, and wellness.
00:00:16.020 And I also write a newsletter called Good for Your Age about aging and how all of those
00:00:20.260 industries I just mentioned sell us stuff.
00:00:23.720 I wanted to have you on the show because of a newsletter you wrote about the Rudy on the
00:00:27.680 loose work pants. If you live in a certain corner of the internet or if your algorithm is tuned in
00:00:33.240 a certain way, like these pants have been inescapable, can you describe the pants and
00:00:38.780 what made you interested in them? Can I describe the pants? Yes. So they are a pull-on spandex and
00:00:48.520 nylon blend pant, but the most significant and obvious thing about them is that they have a
00:00:55.160 barrel leg so that's that curved horseshoe shape that is like seems pretty inescapable right now
00:01:01.480 so so those are the pants and they cost about 260 bucks is the other big point the first time i
00:01:10.100 heard about them actually besides getting like i think i was advertising them for a while on
00:01:14.260 instagram stories but my friend said that she found the dupe the old navy dupe um and she got
00:01:22.320 them in the mail and wore them and I was like those are pretty cute I felt them and I'm like
00:01:26.120 this is like hiking pant material yes yes yes yes that's it's one of the once you once you go down
00:01:34.260 the Rudy on the loose work pant rabbit hole a lot of people have this question like how are these
00:01:39.100 work pants like maybe kind of the shape looks like they could be work pants but when you see
00:01:46.300 them in real life they're a little bit shiny they definitely read workout pant or yes hiking pant
00:01:51.760 They're athletic.
00:01:53.720 They're like a slightly elevated athleisure genre.
00:01:59.560 And really speak, I think, and we can talk about this as we go through the conversation, really speak to the way that business casual is evolving post-COVID.
00:02:08.040 Yes.
00:02:08.900 Right?
00:02:09.120 Like you would never wear these to like a law office.
00:02:13.180 No, no, absolutely not.
00:02:15.320 Still, I don't think you would.
00:02:16.540 No, absolutely not.
00:02:17.580 But, you know, if you weren't too close to someone or it wasn't too sunny where you could see the shininess, you could maybe get away with them with the right shoes.
00:02:27.200 They strike me, too, as like a perfect put-together, I'm putting that in quotes, put-together traveling pant.
00:02:34.000 Yes.
00:02:34.460 That's also one of their biggest use cases.
00:02:38.060 And I should really admit this right now, but I now own two pairs of them.
00:02:42.080 I'm embarrassed to say.
00:02:43.680 Oh, they are?
00:02:44.320 No.
00:02:44.440 Yeah.
00:02:45.020 Yeah, they are extremely comfortable and I have worn them traveling and they look nicer than leggings or sweats or the big baggy pants.
00:02:53.940 You know, they're comfortable and stretchy and they weren't too sweaty.
00:02:58.600 So they're comfortable.
00:03:00.420 Well, they're again, because they're hiking pants with a slight silhouette.
00:03:06.680 I have them.
00:03:07.860 I got them in linen and I am so aspirational when it comes to linen.
00:03:12.760 I'm like, these are beautiful.
00:03:14.760 And I really love them.
00:03:16.720 They're this gorgeous, like, caramel color.
00:03:19.700 I am going to wear them when I go to Europe because that is the sort of place that you would wear a gorgeous linen barrel pant.
00:03:28.560 But I have not yet worn them in my everyday life.
00:03:31.500 But, like, I do this sometimes, like, and I've talked about this on our other fashion episodes, that I have, like, my uniforms for where I live, which is a place where people don't dress up much.
00:03:41.580 And then I buy clothes specifically that make me feel not self-conscious when I go to places that are fancier or more, I don't know, cosmopolitan, I guess.
00:03:53.400 Yeah. Yeah. Same.
00:03:54.960 I mean, I'm in New York, but I live in a neighborhood that is decidedly not very fashion-y at all.
00:04:03.180 Really?
00:04:03.720 Yeah. I live on the Upper West Side, which is more of a chill neighborhood.
00:04:09.000 It's like the chillest you could get in New York.
00:04:11.240 Yes. Just like some mandals going on.
00:04:14.060 Yeah. Totally. But the other thing about these pants that I think are important that
00:04:19.740 speaks to their comfort is they have an elastic waist. There's no buttons. There's no zipper.
00:04:25.100 And one of their precursors, which whose name is escaping me right now, but was popular also,
00:04:29.920 but not as popular as these, did have a zipper and a button. So the fact that these don't and
00:04:34.900 they've become their bestseller says something about how comfortable we want to be.
00:04:40.360 And I think you said something about how your friend called them, like, basically targeting the perimenopause menopause aged woman.
00:04:49.920 Yes. Someone said called them menopants to me, which is, this is what, I mean, I am in my 50s. I am in menopause. Like, that tracks to me. It tracks.
00:05:02.220 And we can get into this, too, about what I've learned about the brand.
00:05:06.120 But the founder herself is also of that age and has for years and years talked about how they're meant for women over 35.
00:05:14.520 They're meant to be comfortable and polished.
00:05:17.080 And flattering is another word she uses, too.
00:05:20.020 Right.
00:05:20.420 But, yeah.
00:05:22.360 So that is the demographic.
00:05:24.580 And so it's not surprising that these found me on Instagram.
00:05:28.240 You, one of the things I loved about this piece, and I love about like fashion business journalism in general, is looking very specifically at like, okay, how is it, like, how does a viral piece of clothing, how does it go viral? Because it doesn't just happen. Like, these are not flash mobs of like, oh, suddenly everyone loves this. Like, this was seeded very deliberately. So can you talk a little bit about that, including the flywheel effect?
00:05:57.160 There are two factors, I think, that made these popular. The first and foremost, and I guess we could talk about this more later, too, but they were early to the barrel leg trend. Like, they had some barrel leg pants already in their mix. So they were kind of ready to go when that got super popular for all the reasons that that shape got popular.
00:06:17.240 Yeah. But they also, for whatever reason, and I did try to reach out to the founder several times and she never responded to me. So I don't know this for sure. But they have aggressively advertised on social media. They've aggressively gifted influencers and newsletter writers and people who use ShopMy, which I think we should talk about ShopMy because I've learned a lot about that company, too.
00:06:44.860 in the course of this reporting and other reporting so shop my which is um a purveyor
00:06:50.180 of affiliate links um and so those three things or two things however many things i just said
00:07:00.000 are are kind of the reason so they they were in the right place at the right time with the
00:07:04.480 pant shape and were savvy or lucky about how they did their seating and gifting yep and it's it's
00:07:14.460 difficult to say in situations like this if they accelerated a shift or rode the shift away from
00:07:22.400 like what I've seen over the last 10 years is like this move from leggings to joggers and now
00:07:29.560 we're moving into like either very large sweatpants or something like this which I think
00:07:35.600 like you can't wear very large sweatpants and feel put together but this offers that sort of
00:07:42.080 comfort and flexibility with a little bit more of that polish. Yeah, it's another, the fashion
00:07:48.760 journalists have been reporting on this for a few years now, but there is a category that I think
00:07:54.300 they've called easy pants, which, yes, which are exactly this, they're pull-on, they're stretchy, 0.99
00:08:02.220 they, you know, are not binding at all, they are not hard pants, they're bigger, and so the Rudies
00:08:10.020 also fit perfectly they're they're an easy pant like clearly so yeah they had the shape going for
00:08:15.840 them they had the we want these pants that are comfortable to wear that don't look messy they're
00:08:20.980 also for sizing when you have an elastic waistband there's less difficulty with sizing right
00:08:27.640 i guess i mean they also so one of the other things is that they also offer many of their
00:08:34.140 colors in petite which has been really popular um because a lot of brands just don't and tall
00:08:40.700 and i don't think their sizing is that inclusive i i think it only goes up to excel possibly one
00:08:47.340 more and they they actually ran small on me like i needed to size up when i ordered them despite
00:08:53.680 their stretchiness they just felt better at a larger size so i mean yes they're a little more
00:08:58.400 flexible it's also a weird shape like I think like it is it's a weird shape so you know some
00:09:04.180 people that I've talked to just say like I don't like that shape on my body so yeah it's one of
00:09:12.820 those shapes that like when you first try it on actually this is a great tee up for our next
00:09:17.180 question because we got a lot of questions about pants just generally but especially barrel pants
00:09:24.740 This comes from Anjali.
00:09:26.700 Let's talk about it. 0.99
00:09:28.320 Barrel pants.
00:09:29.640 I genuinely don't get it.
00:09:31.680 Every advertisement or photo of people posing in them look like they just got off a horse after sitting in the saddle for hours and just kind of got stuck that way.
00:09:40.280 Also, ankle length pants.
00:09:42.500 What happened to normal pants?
00:09:47.060 Thank you, Anjali.
00:09:48.260 This is a great question.
00:09:49.440 Yes.
00:09:50.780 What do you think?
00:09:51.860 Um, okay, so I actually did look into this quite a bit when I was researching the Rudy pants, because you can't talk about them without talking about Beryl. So I'm sure you recall there was like much ado made about the death of skinny jeans. And, you know, all millennials were sad that the skinny jeans were leaving. And there was this big discourse, but it did shift as fashion does, from like, super tight to super loose.
00:10:18.220 And part of that did happen during the pandemic for obvious reasons, again, because nobody wanted to wear hard pants or tight pants or uncomfortable pants.
00:10:26.360 But the Beryl in particular, I think probably the first person who can claim that pant is a designer named Neely Lotan, and she has a pant called the Shawn Pant.
00:10:39.080 And I watched a few interviews with her, and I want to say they came out in 2016.
00:10:43.440 They cost almost $400, but they've been popular for years.
00:10:49.280 And in that, she said, I don't understand this barrel leg.
00:10:51.940 I was calling it the bull-legged gene.
00:10:54.180 And she wanted it to look Western and like you just got off a horse.
00:10:58.680 And so that shape has been in her repertoire for, you know, a decade, it sounds like now.
00:11:04.120 So she was one of the first.
00:11:06.080 And I think Rudy came out with theirs.
00:11:08.500 The earliest I could find, at least in their Instagram footprint, was like 2022.
00:11:13.440 um but around that time like runway designers started showing jeans it started in denim in
00:11:21.340 that shape and then it just like snowballed from there and you know it's difficult to describe
00:11:26.800 like they do feel different at least for me as a straight-sized person who is of average height
00:11:32.240 they you look at them and then you're like these are kind of weird and then you put them on your
00:11:38.940 body and you're like, I kind of like it. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like, yes. I thought
00:11:46.320 they looked so bizarre when I first saw them. But if you but if you see something enough, it's like
00:11:51.620 you you become Stockholm syndrome or whatever. Like maybe those do look good. Oh, I'm going to
00:11:56.640 try some. Like, what do you know? They fit. They look good on my body type. And I should say also
00:12:02.060 the Rudy pants. You know, we've been in such like a high waisted pant moment for years and years and
00:12:07.440 years and those pants are they call them mid-rise yeah um and so again that was another thing that
00:12:13.740 i was like wow this feels great they're not up to my boobs because that's how i feel when i wear
00:12:17.760 you know high-waisted just a corset of jean exactly so i don't know everything about these
00:12:24.040 these pants work but that but that's that's kind of how we got barrel um yeah and it was an outshoot
00:12:29.840 i guess too of like there were those wide-legged pants and so this is a version of wide-legged but
00:12:34.440 shaped differently i'll also say that the old navy dupes like many old navy products are all
00:12:41.540 almost all old navy products are sized much more inclusively yes they have fewer colors
00:12:46.520 but they do have like just a huge variety of sizes um the other thing that i think that the
00:12:54.740 reason that i think these pants have taken off a little bit and this gets to the larger question
00:12:59.260 about like what are pants why are pants so weird right now um millennials in particular i think
00:13:05.640 struggle and i think some gen x and you can talk to me about how if you think millennials are so
00:13:12.160 weird about this but millennials in particular struggle with shoe choice and so they figured
00:13:17.480 it out with skinny jeans and then they also have like i think really negative associations with the
00:13:24.060 flair silhouette for good reasons right um personally i love like a cargo it makes me feel
00:13:31.520 like i'm 16 in a good way i'm just like i like i'm back in my grunge era uh but it also sometimes i
00:13:42.140 think it makes you feel like oh i'm 16 in a bad way and that i'm a child uh but there's something
00:13:47.300 about the barrel that's different you're like this is not a silhouette i've tried and it actually
00:13:51.500 like there it works with a lot of different shoes i find yes i agree and i think my friends who are
00:13:58.320 in my sort of age cohort also agree like they look good you can wear them with flip-flops i wear them
00:14:03.900 with big old chunky boots um yeah you know the sneakers sneakers sandals they look good with
00:14:10.540 everything it's just yeah you don't have to worry about like if you're wearing a wide leg how they
00:14:15.980 pool around your shoe or make your feet look tiny or huge or they just work with shoes.
00:14:22.280 Yeah, exactly. And I think that's part of the popularity too. Like this is one of those things
00:14:26.780 that, you know, you talked about, we can look at shop by, we can look at like how a brand prepares
00:14:32.400 for a moment where then they can take off, but also it has to be something that people actually
00:14:38.160 want to put on their body. Totally. Yeah, totally.
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00:18:09.520 Okay, next question is about a different sort of pant.
00:18:12.540 This comes from Rachel.
00:18:14.020 Viral clothing item I do not get.
00:18:16.760 The taffeta cargo pants that became so ubiquitous online this summer
00:18:21.160 that several influencers were referring to them simply as the pants,
00:18:26.760 as if there were no other pants to be had.
00:18:29.080 I think they were like $400 and they sold out frequently and I saw them everywhere on Instagram and nowhere in real life.
00:18:39.740 I can answer the taffeta cargo pant question because that was another rabbit hole I went down for this.
00:18:46.340 And that's part of the easy pant.
00:18:48.400 I know like at first blush taffeta cargo pants don't seem like easy pant, but it is a it is a like second or third generation version of that. 0.96
00:18:57.020 So there's a brand called Donnie, D-O-N-N-I. 0.95
00:18:59.580 That's what I'm looking at.
00:19:00.920 And I first became aware of these probably two years ago.
00:19:04.200 I saw a newsletter deem them millennial mom pants and their pull-on drawstring.
00:19:13.040 And I used to be a nurse in my former career.
00:19:16.480 And I was like, wow, those look like scrubs.
00:19:18.860 And that is like the most comfortable pants I can imagine wearing because you can adjust them.
00:19:23.540 They're loose.
00:19:25.180 And I bought a pair and I really liked them.
00:19:27.680 And I think they're in the same crazy price range, like $200.
00:19:31.360 They're $436.
00:19:33.680 Yes.
00:19:34.320 So that was the cotton version that I bought.
00:19:37.380 Oh, the cotton.
00:19:39.060 Then they popped up with these taffeta.
00:19:40.800 I think the gingham taffeta in particular went crazy.
00:19:46.160 And then other brands started duping them.
00:19:48.300 So I think it's just the next iteration of dressier easy pants.
00:19:54.320 Yes. There's another brand called Lissette that has something called the Kyoto pant that is the same thing. It's not taffeta, but it's a cotton version. J.Crew did a dupe that was like less than 100 bucks that was sold out in all the popular colors. So that's just a dressier version of this easy pant that we've been. I wouldn't be surprised to see like a leather version come out.
00:20:16.240 for sure that's something that i've seen i wonder if you feel like this is sort of novel i've seen
00:20:20.860 it at anthropology a lot where they find a silhouette and then they really iterate on
00:20:28.820 fabrics yeah for sure season for sure new um does it feel new like have is this something like that
00:20:36.920 brands have done and i'm just noticing it now um i'm trying to think of examples um
00:20:46.060 I don't know that I can answer that question with any sort of authority, but I can't say you're right on this case.
00:20:54.800 And I think it's because it's such a blank slate.
00:20:57.420 It's such a simply tailored item, as in not tailored.
00:21:02.020 So it seems like you can fabricate that in kind of any.
00:21:07.500 The other thing it makes me think of is that, like, because a lot of people don't have access to or don't shop in person for various reasons.
00:21:16.060 Once you know, and also sizing is so variable, right?
00:21:21.180 So let's say like the type that I'm thinking of is the Somerset line from Anthropologie, which is one of their in-house lines.
00:21:28.340 And once you know that the Somerset silhouette, you know what size you are in that particular sub brand.
00:21:35.840 Yeah.
00:21:36.520 Then it takes a lot of that guesswork out and you're like, okay, I can have my summer Somerset dress.
00:21:41.840 And then here's my winter Somerset dress that does the same thing that I can like rely on.
00:21:48.840 Right. Like it's it's bringing back brand consistency in a way.
00:21:52.920 Right. Yes, for sure.
00:21:54.940 For sure. And they can and a brand can stretch it through multiple seasons and years.
00:22:00.100 Yeah. The other thing that I'm thinking of that we haven't talked about and you point this out in your Rudy article is that like all of this is possible because the $200 pant has been normalized.
00:22:10.520 normalized. So can you talk a little bit about that? Yes. I'm not sure how it got normalized. I think
00:22:16.540 I've been thinking about this a lot, and I think it goes back to the high sport pant. I don't know
00:22:22.120 if you remember that one, but it was $900 or $600. It was outrageously expensive. Wow. Yes. And this
00:22:29.360 was several years ago. Again, fashion newsletters kind of picked up on it. It was a pull-on pant
00:22:35.400 that was stretchy and had kind of a kick flair at the bottom. And it was just like eye-wateringly
00:22:43.280 expensive. And it made the rounds, you know, amongst all the sort of fashionable writers.
00:22:49.640 And so maybe after that, you know, $200 suddenly doesn't seem that expensive or $300. I think
00:22:57.500 there is a sweet spot in between like luxury that's gotten so out of reach for so many consumers
00:23:05.820 and like your old navy that this seems like a nice middle yep ground can i run a theory past you
00:23:13.600 of course okay so i think that millennials and gen xers who are professional upper bourgeois
00:23:23.300 upper middle class bourgeois, right? Like they have been thinking about like the cost of fast
00:23:29.140 fashion, for one. Like so some of this is like trying to incorporate some politics into their
00:23:34.440 like ethics of consumption. Also, we're sick of things wearing out and having to figure out not
00:23:40.660 just like, oh, it's annoying that I have to buy something new, but also the entire like the labor
00:23:46.220 of donation and reselling and getting rid of these clothes has taken a toll at this point in
00:23:51.420 your life. And there's just this feeling of like, OK, I guess I will buy something that is going to
00:23:58.720 last a lot longer. And if it's this price point, then it's this price point. Yeah, I think that's
00:24:03.920 definitely valid. And I also think the fact that many of these are originating from small indie
00:24:09.700 brands is probably also appealing. Yeah. You know, you're not buying from Zara. You can say it came
00:24:16.040 from this, you know, woman owned small brand. Right. And I think at least for me, you know, 0.63
00:24:22.820 buying buying the Donnie millennial mom pants, they felt like not too trendy. I was like,
00:24:28.300 these are black pull on pants that probably aren't going to look outrageously. Not that I care that
00:24:33.700 much about out of fashion, but I don't want to look, you know, a decade, you know, old or whatever.
00:24:39.800 You are a fashion journalist.
00:24:43.140 So, yeah, I think that that went into my calculation.
00:24:47.620 Like, I probably will wear these for years.
00:24:51.000 I'm looking at all these Donnie pants.
00:24:52.540 They also like they seem to very much be catering.
00:24:55.760 Millennial mom, but also like the audience that is maybe like I'm not cut out for Eileen Fisher, but I get it.
00:25:03.640 Yes. Yes.
00:25:05.800 So someone when I was reaching out to people about the Rudy pants, someone said to me, Eileen Fisher walked so Rudy could run, which which tracks for me, which totally tracks for me.
00:25:19.700 Like it's Rudy has made itself a little more like fashionable.
00:25:23.680 And I also should say I own some Eileen Fisher pants and they're fabulous.
00:25:28.980 But, yeah, there's there's an image, unfortunately, that that brand has.
00:25:32.720 And it's a slightly more expensive.
00:25:34.100 It kind of falls in the same price point, quality and price wise.
00:25:39.520 But yes.
00:25:40.440 Yeah.
00:25:40.860 And I do think you point out that like there are various iterations of like the Rudy pants and different things that are available on resale sites.
00:25:49.280 And they're still pretty expensive, which shows that like they are still valued.
00:25:54.180 They're not yet into like an abundance that you can source yet on resale.
00:25:59.040 But they do seem of a quality that they will have a second life in resale.
00:26:02.980 For sure.
00:26:03.820 I mean, we'll see. We'll see. There's so many of them out there. It will be interesting to watch when they do hit to see what happens. And like I've washed. I don't really take great care of mine. I've washed mine. You know, I'm curious to see how they hold up generally, too.
00:26:20.500 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the Eileen Fisher silhouette is like, it does not go out of style. Like, if you're rocking Eileen Fisher, you're rocking Eileen Fisher, right? Whereas a barrel-linked pant is a more distinctive silhouette.
00:26:32.500 Totally, totally, totally.
00:26:34.120 Okay, let's talk about shorts. This comes from Sarah.
00:26:38.160 I'm confused by the super viral Old Navy long jean shorts, which I think are intended to just be cropped pants.
00:26:47.500 I saw someone online refer to these as Gen Z's version of the millennial gaucho pants, and now I can't unsee it.
00:26:55.280 Is that what this is, or is something else going on here?
00:26:58.420 okay so i was trying to figure out which long jean shorts these are and i think it matters
00:27:04.600 less the very specific one just than like the image of these long jean shorts so how long are
00:27:10.720 they so they're pretty they go past the knee they're like between knee and calf yeah i would
00:27:17.420 say i would say yeah so i have some personal experience with this sort of genre i have um
00:27:22.880 two sons who are college age and a few years ago my younger son came out wearing these we we were
00:27:30.740 we've been making fun of their big pants for years but he came out with the short version
00:27:35.380 of these big jorts to his knee and he wore them just to his you know college and he reported back
00:27:42.900 that some older employees at his school were complimenting him on them saying oh my gosh those
00:27:49.680 look like what I wore in the 90s. And so I went into this I'm going into this question with sort
00:27:55.760 of that as my background. But I have to actually give credit to Casey Lewis and her after school
00:28:00.260 reporting. She has actually I know the answer to this question, I think, because of the reporting
00:28:05.900 she has done on it. But you can blame Adam Sandler. There is something apparently called
00:28:12.320 Adam Sandler core that has been sort of bubbling up for the past five years. Yeah. So so that's
00:28:19.300 one thing but i have also seen arguments that um gen z really is into the early 2000s and late 90s
00:28:27.860 so this can't this definitely can i buy that this actually is a modern twist on gauchos or culottes
00:28:34.240 or whatever you want to call them because gen z is pretty obsessed with that era so if it's not
00:28:40.260 adam sandler it's definitely because maybe they're because they really want to know that time but
00:28:47.700 also they're just like comfortable and they've been wearing these huge silhouettes for years so
00:28:53.620 that shape and size just makes sense yes i will say they look kind of like jankos for anyone
00:29:01.180 for sure and the adam sandler core absolutely makes sense the other thing that people who
00:29:07.660 don't have kids don't know is like adam sandler is incredible touch point for these kids in part
00:29:13.540 through like many many netflix movies that we may or may not have seen um there's adam sandler days
00:29:20.620 like spirit days at school like this is an aesthetic that they are very familiar with
00:29:26.540 it's incredible yeah i wonder if they like my husband loves adam sandler and our kids grew up
00:29:34.660 watching him so i it's probably just baked in to their culture and i did like there is a reason
00:29:42.780 why we wore the culottes right like i wore the ones that are the gauchos i like they're very
00:29:49.020 comfortable yeah they're super comfortable they're super comfortable do you remember the ones that
00:29:53.440 had the rollover waist where they yes you know those are coming back yes they're coming back
00:29:57.980 absolutely you could scooch them low you could pull them up yes um i i've been doing a lot of
00:30:04.800 watching of rush talk and this will be you know by the time this comes out rush talk will be in
00:30:09.480 the rearview mirror but it is always a very interesting glimpse of how a particular type of
00:30:17.360 17 year old is figuring out fashion in a moment and like you cannot extrapolate national trends
00:30:24.000 by what the people at Bama going through sorority rush are wearing um because it is a a specific
00:30:30.620 silhouette but like they are wearing like the the amount of um business casual that is back like it
00:30:37.580 looks like they rated the closet of express and baby um you know the belts that don't serve any
00:30:43.360 purpose um but also the flare jeans that have to be held up by a belt like just a normal belt
00:30:50.520 kitten heels wow capris of course um and i think like for me the long jean short is more of like 0.99
00:30:59.100 the alternative right like the like women or or whoever who's wearing these shorts like this is
00:31:06.300 not this is what you wear instead of the capri pant with your kitten heels yeah i mean i do see 1.00
00:31:12.200 a lot of them in new york city and always on younger women and they're usually with like a
00:31:17.260 little tank top white or black tank top like that's almost exclusively how i see it worn
00:31:21.740 yeah um yeah yeah so uh i've i do miss the fashion show and not even like fashion show
00:31:29.700 and like high fashion just like the opportunity to walk down the street or be on the subway and
00:31:34.260 see all the different ways that people are dressing yeah it's pretty interesting i do i do
00:31:39.460 enjoy watching herd dressing even people my own age i'll see people women go by and they all have
00:31:44.440 the same sneakers on it's just really fun and fascinating okay let's talk about sweatshirts
00:31:51.700 this one's from courtney and i've seen this as well so let's go park sweatshirts were rampant
00:31:56.740 across dw madison campus last spring where did they all come from how do they all know
00:32:01.660 um the boring answer to how do they all know is probably tiktok but um this question is so funny
00:32:10.480 because and timely because two days ago i got a an email um a press release from park actually
00:32:17.960 that they are dropping a collaboration with a bunch of different colleges including bama
00:32:24.920 uh texas university of georgia florida syracuse iu um so that is really funny and not surprising
00:32:34.940 that she's seen it on campus but um this is a case where i think the person selling it is more
00:32:42.820 important than actually the item like it's it's kind of it's kind of a hailey bieber situation
00:32:48.260 oh gosh this is just my theory this is my theory so the founder is a woman named chelsea park 1.00
00:32:55.720 um and she um launched like a denim line i think but she has one of these lifestyles that 0.97
00:33:03.540 that seems you know aspirational to a certain young woman i think actually she's a young mom 0.99
00:33:09.820 now but she you know when she first started like hailey bieber yes yes yes and i just think she 0.99
00:33:15.600 has this look and lifestyle that has been really appealing. And for some reason, when 0.99
00:33:20.040 the sweatshirts came out, they went crazy. And now that's what her brand is known for. They've
00:33:25.720 done a Target collab, you know, and they've also got this, as we've seen in sort of fashion drop
00:33:33.100 culture for a long time, the artificial scarcity and exclusivity. So there's specific designs that
00:33:39.700 drop and then they're gone um and so and we should tell people we didn't even say what they look like 0.98
00:33:46.300 so they um they are just a classic crew neck sweatshirt that has the words park p-a-r-k-e
00:33:55.360 in like like it looks like a college sweatshirt yeah yeah some of them have like a like a collar
00:34:01.740 that's like a little i wouldn't call it a mock neck but it has sort of like maybe a slightly
00:34:05.600 different neckline almost like a funnel neck totally yeah mock neck or something they're
00:34:11.880 they're bigger you know they're baggy and slouchy and yes they come in different colors and sometimes
00:34:17.460 the park is rendered as you know in a like a fat i think they have one now that's like little heart
00:34:22.780 fabric yep yeah and they're 130 correct yes but they're in that silhouette that is very popular
00:34:30.660 for Gen Z and Gen Alpha,
00:34:33.440 like just the like oversized style.
00:34:36.100 Yes, yes, correct.
00:34:37.920 And I think they come to the waist too,
00:34:39.380 so they're not like hanging down,
00:34:40.900 but they're sort of just like
00:34:42.020 they end at the waist.
00:34:43.820 And it's such an easy pick of like,
00:34:45.980 okay, here's like a way
00:34:47.200 that I look like I fit in
00:34:49.720 with other people,
00:34:51.220 but also can be slightly different
00:34:52.760 by having a different color.
00:34:54.500 Yes, I mean, and Park has
00:34:56.600 some spiritual, you know, predecessors,
00:34:58.740 like the like gap logo yes was huge for a while um and for and for my era um espree uh i saw
00:35:09.580 someone say again uh espree walked so park could run like that tracks um gosh the espree sweatshirt
00:35:17.700 the whole my babysitters had that i because i'm just a little younger so my babysitters had the
00:35:22.760 Esprit sweatshirts, and I thought it was so cool. My dad unearthed a picture of our family trip
00:35:31.020 to France when I was in eighth grade. And what am I wearing very cool in France? A white CK
00:35:40.040 Calvin Klein sweatshirt. That was a hoodie. That was my prized possession at that age.
00:35:46.400 It's just a, you know, it's a beacon that you belong and you know, and you're in the group.
00:35:51.840 That's like any like anything monogrammed or obviously branded.
00:35:56.080 That's what it says.
00:35:57.460 Yeah, totally.
00:36:05.220 If you've been listening to our recent conversations about why having kids feels increasingly impossible or how gender and power shape our everyday lives, there's another podcast I think you should know about.
00:36:16.280 It's called Repros Fight Back.
00:36:18.180 Right now, reproductive health and rights are changing at a wildly fast pace.
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00:36:32.100 Repros Fight Back gives clear and easy-to-understand breakdowns with experts of what's happening and what it means for real people and how we can fight back.
00:36:41.280 Plus, host Jenny Wedder genuinely makes you feel like you're learning from a friend.
00:36:45.960 This fall, they have some episodes coming up that I think you're going to really want to hear,
00:36:49.320 like the impacts of abortion bans on everyone's health
00:36:51.920 and a conversation about intimate partner violence and Black women.
00:36:55.980 So if you want to learn more about the policies shaping our personal decisions,
00:36:59.760 I think you'll really love Repros Fight Back.
00:37:02.340 Listen wherever you get your podcasts.
00:37:04.620 The Culture Study Podcast is sponsored by Wild Alaskan Company.
00:37:08.680 Melody, guess what? It's soup season.
00:37:11.200 It's soup season.
00:37:12.980 I mean, is it soup season where you are?
00:37:15.020 It's getting there.
00:37:16.180 Like, what was your high?
00:37:16.940 The air conditioning is still going.
00:37:18.360 The air conditioning is still going?
00:37:20.300 The high today is a chilly 82.
00:37:23.760 What?
00:37:25.420 But that feels great.
00:37:27.100 You're like, it's soup season.
00:37:30.160 Well, I am so excited for soup season.
00:37:32.300 I had my first soup of the year last Friday.
00:37:35.180 I'm having a soup party on Saturday where we're having many different soups.
00:37:41.580 Bring your own soup and soup bowl.
00:37:43.580 It's going to be fantastic. And one of the soups that I'm going to make is now a standard of mine.
00:37:48.960 It's this fish chowder from Melissa Clark's dinner. And it has this fish chowder recipe
00:37:55.040 that I love to use with the chopped up, perfectly portioned little pieces of wild Alaskan pollock.
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00:39:07.520 Thanks to Wild Alaskan Company for sponsoring this episode.
00:39:17.440 Our next question comes from Aubrey, and Melody's going to read it.
00:39:20.720 What is going on with the hats and sweatshirts with the upside-down words?
00:39:24.760 Why are we doing this now?
00:39:26.880 I have one, so I'm so excited to talk about this.
00:39:30.000 What does yours say?
00:39:31.100 So this is the great story is my friend works for Brooks, the running company, and it's just very keyed into she works in comms, very keyed into like different trends that are happening in active wear broadly.
00:39:44.320 And so we were doing this like relay running race and you get like some matching gear for your team because it's 12 people.
00:39:53.300 and so she had ones made that are embroidered they're primary blue and they're embroidered
00:39:59.740 upside down with the name of the race which is ragnar so it's upside down and we got at the
00:40:04.780 race because there's just you know there's hundreds of other teams they're like is that
00:40:08.440 official merch can we buy it somewhere like most in demand article that we saw um and now we get a
00:40:16.240 lot of the the comments from like boomer dads who's like i'm wearing it around the i don't know
00:40:23.280 the island where i live and they're like did you know that your hat's on upside down
00:40:27.340 you know they're being funny whatever but uh so if people haven't seen it's just basically like
00:40:34.360 the name of a place often or a team and then it's just embroidered upside down like a mirror flip
00:40:41.500 yeah yes i actually didn't realize this was a thing but now i'm seeing it everywhere now that
00:40:47.140 i'm aware of it and that's because the new york times actually their fashion newsletter
00:40:51.240 did a thing on it. And I was like, why haven't I noticed it? And now I see it everywhere,
00:40:56.340 everywhere. So this is one of those where you can trace it back to a single brand.
00:41:01.640 It's a Dallas-based company named True Brand, I think, who first did this in 2020. And the reason
00:41:08.280 the owner said he did it was that it was during COVID and things felt like the world was upside
00:41:15.020 down unsettled yeah yes yeah so he put just put the word dallas on a baseball and you know on like
00:41:20.820 a trucker cap or something upside down somehow got um a dallas cowboys player to wear it and then
00:41:27.660 it just sort of like took off from their brand started copying it it's like it seems to be a
00:41:33.060 very like some teams are doing it um formally now it seems to be a very sporty merchy yeah thing
00:41:41.680 Like I saw Steph Curry wearing a hat. I've seen like a couple of golfers, like cool, fashionable golfers wearing hats that do this. I feel like I'm on the upswing of a trend and it's never happened before.
00:41:53.900 For sure. For sure. I really wasn't too aware of this until I read it in my very mainstream newspaper and then started seeing it on the subway.
00:42:03.280 Okay, let's talk about shoes. I can't believe we didn't get more shoe questions, but this one comes from Suzanne.
00:42:09.840 What's the deal with Rothy's clogs?
00:42:11.740 Why does every influencer seem to show them?
00:42:15.160 How can you tell if influencer picks are actually good or if these companies just have a big marketing budget for influencers?
00:42:23.760 This allows us to talk about so many things.
00:42:25.880 So maybe we should start by talking about Shop Me.
00:42:29.000 Yes, yes, yes, for sure.
00:42:30.460 This is absolutely the same playbook that why Rudy is popular is why Rothy's are popular.
00:42:38.920 They have a huge, clearly have a huge, again, this is me guessing, an educated guess, but a big gifting budget. And I actually did look this one up. And 3,200 creators on ShopMy are sharing links for the original Rothy's clogs.
00:42:57.600 Yes. And just to put that into context. So when I wrote about Rudy, 1,800 creators were sharing those pants. And when I recently checked, 2,300 now are. So 3,200 is a lot. And they have multiple variations. People are sharing the variations.
00:43:17.140 So the way ShopMy works, they're a company that has been around since 2020 also. They're an affiliate marketing platform. And all that really means is they are a go-between between brands and creators. And creators can mean anything. It can mean anyone who can get approved by ShopMy. And it's really not that hard.
00:43:37.660 i was i was denied you were this was back in like 2021 i wanted like a friend of the pod virginia
00:43:46.460 soul smith and also friend of the pod caroline moss was telling it was just like this is
00:43:51.360 interesting you should like look at it and see how it works and like a lot of things like this
00:43:55.340 i just wanted to explore and see like is this something that i feel like is right for my
00:44:01.260 newsletter and for what i'm doing and so and at the time i think i had like 65 000 instagram
00:44:08.420 followers which a lot and then my like they were like yeah we have way less than you of course you
00:44:14.300 will get approved and they denied me and i don't know if it's because i just like i don't really
00:44:19.560 share that much fashion stuff and they were like this person's a culture writer like this isn't
00:44:23.660 interesting um but i i thought that was maybe just also at a different point in their evolution
00:44:31.080 as a company it is because i'm in the middle of writing a story right now for a big publication
00:44:35.820 that's in edits and it and it has it does seem like it's gotten easier to get approved because
00:44:41.420 a lot of sort of normal people are getting approved to use it now so right okay so it has
00:44:49.620 gotten easier and it looks really pretty so can you describe like when someone clicks on an
00:44:55.020 affiliate link it takes them to shop my right no no when someone so they they are a go-between
00:45:01.760 between a brand and a creator and they basically make it easy for brands to um provide a commission
00:45:10.180 and shop my doesn't pay a commission so like if i the rudy pants pay i can't remember what i think
00:45:15.320 it was 23 or something they pay so so when when you click on someone's link that they share in
00:45:22.140 their newsletter or on their story or whatever, it takes you directly to Rudy. But there's a little
00:45:27.240 cookie on that link that knows that the commission should go to whatever creator you clicked on. So
00:45:33.960 they get paid 23% or whatever the commission rate is. And Rudy just negotiates all that and provides
00:45:39.940 a lot, a ton of data behind the scenes to brands. So brands can see exactly how many of those pants
00:45:45.820 they're moving who sells a lot of stuff even how much they're selling um and brands pay for
00:45:52.380 certain levels of that data access so that's what's like kind of happening behind the scenes
00:45:57.540 um and so you know what rothy's clog what percentage they pay i don't but um shop my
00:46:04.580 pays somewhere in between well the brands on shop may pay between like 10 and 30 percent so it's
00:46:08.940 like not a small commission but um shot my also does this thing called opportunities and what it
00:46:16.820 means is a brand can message a creator and say listen uh we know you share a lot of our links
00:46:25.340 how about can you share maybe share our link twice on your newsletter drop one link in your story and
00:46:33.840 we'll pay you an extra 500 bucks for that so they give them these incentives to post more frequently
00:46:40.920 which might explain why you're suddenly seeing them everywhere or you know a creator post yeah
00:46:47.620 a creator posting about them a lot also you know if something is selling well they're going to keep
00:46:52.200 posting about it yeah um right and if one creator sees someone posting about it frequently they're
00:46:58.180 going to think wow they are probably selling a lot of those i should post it too and that's how
00:47:02.120 you get 3,200 creators posting about something. So honestly, that's how I think those clogs got
00:47:11.100 so popular. I fell for them two years ago and I bought some and they're comfortable on the
00:47:17.860 footbed, but they're weirdly like dense and heavy. Yes, they are. They're not that comfortable to
00:47:23.440 walk in. They look like slippers to me. Yes. And that's actually why I bought them. They're made
00:47:29.820 out of rothy's is you know what they're known for is they make all their stuff out of um like
00:47:34.080 recycled bottles yeah so it's sort of a stretchy material but um anyway i yes i suspect that shop
00:47:41.860 my is a big reason that rothy's is so big so you used a phrase there that i think a lot of people
00:47:49.600 find themselves using when they like buy something from instagram which is i sell for them right like
00:47:56.140 Like I like I like I was I was influenced and I bought the thing and it I may have been exploited in a slight way in the process.
00:48:08.780 What's your thinking? Like, how do you decide if it's something that someone's posting because like the rate is high?
00:48:15.160 Like, how do you how do you practice discernment?
00:48:17.940 Yeah, this is something I ask myself every time I click on a link for something because I know what is happening.
00:48:23.580 I understand the machinations. I know what is going on every time I click something. I know why they're posting. But the bottom line I ask myself is, do I like? I actually think I like this and I will stare at it. And I try to get off of their content and go to the site where it's just like the model on the page as it was intended for me to see. If I can see it in real life, I'll try to do it. But I should don't think that I'm that discerning because sometimes I will just buy something right off of the link when I click it.
00:48:51.940 but I have to like it. But then I do ask myself, do I really like that? Or do I like it because
00:48:57.560 it looks good on that person? Right. Or because I've seen it everywhere and now I think everybody
00:49:02.840 has it. You know, I mean, I go through all of that thought process too. Yeah. After I bought
00:49:09.960 some jewelry from a brand that I had not heard of, but looked very gorgeous on Instagram,
00:49:18.260 And then it immediately turned my earlobes green.
00:49:21.780 It just that was like an instructive experience for me for ever buying anything via Instagram direct.
00:49:29.480 Because, you know, Instagram makes it so easy when you click on those links to just be like, oh, and your credit card saved in your phone.
00:49:35.200 Like, do it.
00:49:36.400 So I just I have a total I don't do that anymore.
00:49:39.980 Like if I'm going to buy something online, I have to do it on desktop.
00:49:43.340 I have to I usually let the tab sit there for like a long time.
00:49:48.260 Wow. I'll put things in my cart. This is why any brand that takes things out of my cart, I'm like, you're losing out. Because you don't know when my boredom of doing like whatever work I'm supposed to be doing will will drive me to go back and check on that cart.
00:50:05.200 Well, I do admire your self-control.
00:50:09.600 Okay, let's talk about bags.
00:50:11.600 Bags have always been such a site of, I don't know, trend performance, I guess, for lack of a better phrase.
00:50:19.140 And this is about a bag that Melody texted me when she was putting together these questions.
00:50:24.100 And she's like, this is hideous.
00:50:25.960 So this question comes from Emma.
00:50:28.040 Please discuss Erland bags.
00:50:29.980 I don't know how to pronounce that.
00:50:31.060 I hope that's right.
00:50:31.620 Is this just my Instagram algorithm that pushes me the ads all the time?
00:50:36.180 I don't see as many in real life in Montreal where I live.
00:50:39.380 I wonder if that points to a certain size budget for marketing.
00:50:43.260 And if so, it makes me wonder how did they get all that money?
00:50:46.580 Who owns the company, etc.
00:50:48.200 I don't love the bags themselves, but I do admit looking at the clothes once on their website and being enamored with the cuts.
00:50:55.360 So the bags are actually, like, they come in many different styles.
00:50:58.900 Which one have you seen the most of?
00:51:01.480 What I know this brand from is there's a bag called the Dumpling Bag.
00:51:05.360 Yeah, that's what I thought.
00:51:06.680 Yeah.
00:51:07.020 And I think that one.
00:51:09.200 So this brand, let's back up, I guess.
00:51:10.960 It's a small brand that I think really did kind of organically get popular.
00:51:15.800 Like, I don't think there was a lot of marketing behind the scenes, at least that I can tell.
00:51:20.100 But they're a small brand that started in Barcelona and started growing on social media.
00:51:25.400 And I think because they do have that cute name, the Dumpling, you know, they're kind of puffy and squishy and they come in a jillion colors.
00:51:32.820 So they're very visually attractive.
00:51:34.940 They're not expensive because most of them are made of nylon.
00:51:38.140 So I think they're under 150 bucks.
00:51:40.840 And then 125.
00:51:42.480 Yeah.
00:51:42.580 Yeah.
00:51:43.480 Yeah.
00:51:43.960 Which for a bag is pretty reasonable.
00:51:46.220 And then I think like ASOS picked them up, which made them a lot more accessible to people.
00:51:52.640 And then Wirecutter actually named them as a good work bag.
00:51:58.940 One of the styles.
00:51:59.780 I'm not sure if it was the dumpling or one of the other ones.
00:52:02.060 So, I mean, you can kind of see sort of in real time how they've grown and become popular.
00:52:08.560 Yeah, I can't imagine.
00:52:09.560 I feel like the Wirecutter recommendation pushes so, like, I've seen stuff that sells out.
00:52:15.680 As soon as Wirecutter names it, they're like, sorry, we can't, like, keep this in stock anymore.
00:52:20.560 Yep.
00:52:21.420 Yep.
00:52:21.700 It's massive.
00:52:22.640 Yeah. So that's what I have to say about that one.
00:52:25.860 Yeah. I think that the colors is a really smart point in terms of like it allows you to, again, feel like you are exercising some variability.
00:52:36.140 Right. And that like makes it look cute in different ways.
00:52:40.260 The dumpling bag in it, not just the name, it looks like a dumpling.
00:52:44.040 Like it's like folded like a dumpling like that.
00:52:47.120 Yeah. The squishy and the colors, it just looks appealing for sure.
00:52:51.540 Are there any other brands that like you are thinking a lot about right now? Like something that like you would write a similar piece to what you wrote about Rudy about?
00:53:00.780 OK, so so not sadly, not really. I think about sneakers a lot like the New Balance 327. I can't remember the name of them, but I feel like I see these and I don't know if it's just selective, you know, my selective site or something.
00:53:17.300 I feel like I see a lot of sort of 35 and up women, moms, older women wearing these shoes.
00:53:22.780 And I've never really seen anything written about them.
00:53:25.460 I don't know how popular they are necessarily, but that's, I think about shoes a lot.
00:53:32.760 Well, and even just the way that like the sneakers cycle, you know, it used to be that it was like Hoka's, like that style and silhouette.
00:53:45.720 And now it's, like, chunkier and uglier and more 90s.
00:53:49.680 Yes. 0.59
00:53:50.420 Like, again, I was saying my friend who works for Brooks, like, she is always talking about, like, okay, now these are the shoes that the Youngs are wearing.
00:53:58.920 And she also works with a bunch of 20-somethings, so she gets to see, like, how they are styling their shoes in the office.
00:54:05.780 Or even the super flat that have, no, like, I need some support.
00:54:09.980 I can't, I'm not going to wear that.
00:54:11.480 That feels 90s and 2000s to me, too.
00:54:13.480 like the super samba is coming back like the retro style yeah for sure everything that is old
00:54:20.840 what do you feel you know some people i think i just remember when i was in high school that my
00:54:28.380 mom and her friends were saying the exact same things that we are saying about the teens now
00:54:33.880 they're like oh you're taking that from like the 60s and 70s like oh really like you think that's
00:54:41.720 cute uh i think of it as playful at this point instead of like feeling sad or i just think
00:54:52.280 there's a lot of feelings involved and i want to try to parse some of them so i'd be curious how
00:54:56.240 you feel as a gen xer um do you mean how younger people are interpreting styles and shapes from
00:55:02.980 the past or that like because it's not the style of your teens and early 20s that you're kind of
00:55:09.100 like fine have that that's i never liked that that much anyway yeah i um i actually find it
00:55:15.620 kind of delightful um i really love watching and noticing what young people are wearing
00:55:23.460 yeah um you know do i have judgment like why are you doing of course i do because i'm a human being
00:55:28.880 but also i just find it pretty fun um yeah to see how they're interpreting and showing themselves
00:55:37.000 to the world. Yeah, same. Cheryl, thank you so much for coming on the show today. It has been
00:55:43.300 such a delight. Thank you for having me. I feel so much more educated. I have so many more
00:55:48.460 questions. I know that our readers are going to as well. Where can people find you on the internet
00:55:53.440 if they want to read more of your work? I write a newsletter on Substack called Good for Your Age.
00:55:59.940 That's probably the best place. And you can also find me on Instagram at Cheryl Anne with an E-N-Y. 0.98
00:56:05.740 handle. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. 0.57
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