Culture Study Podcast - Unlocking the Allure of Tate McRae

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00:00:48.320 show. The artist that we're talking about today on Culture Study Podcast is currently one of the

00:00:57.040 top 50 most listened to artists in the world on Spotify, has not one but two songs in the

00:01:03.440 Spotify Billion Streams Club, debuted at number one on the Billboard 200, sold out a headlining

00:01:09.800 tour off of her debut EP, and has had 21 songs chart on the Billboard Hot 100.

00:01:17.300 21.

00:01:18.880 21.

00:01:20.080 So we're not talking about Olivia Rodrigo.

00:01:23.120 We're not talking about Billie Eilish.

00:01:25.280 we're not talking about Taylor Swift. No. Who are we talking about? We are talking about

00:01:30.540 Canada's own Tate McRae. This is the Culture Study Podcast, and I'm Anne Helen Peterson.

00:01:42.700 And I'm Rihanna Cruz, producer of Switched on Pop and freelance music and culture journalist.

00:01:47.820 Okay, so this is a little bit of a false like open because I'm trying to take the position of

00:01:53.220 Melody who when I came up with this idea she's like who is Tate McRae you kind of had that

00:01:59.600 position a little bit before like you knew who she was but not you weren't like oh she's that

00:02:05.760 interesting I have to say that I have been listening to Tate McRae since 2020 and not

00:02:11.660 because I was like a so you think you can dance person yeah it's because as longtime listeners

00:02:17.600 of the pod know i live on the canadian border so my top 40 radio station wow that i listen to all

00:02:25.680 the time virgin 94.5 out of vancouver plays so much tate mccrae wow not just because canada's

00:02:34.400 own but also because of the rules in canada that stipulate that you have to play a certain

00:02:38.140 percentage of canadian artists oh wow so there's a ton of tate mccrae so much drake like a

00:02:45.340 a preponderance of trade yeah that makes sense that makes sense I didn't know that about the

00:02:50.980 radio rules yeah I didn't know that either and then um our previous guest Elamin told me this

00:02:56.420 because he's he's Canadian and also a huge music fan so now I have to reorient my understanding of

00:03:02.200 who's popular all the time because I'm like is this just Canadian popular or is this like

00:03:08.140 actually all over top 40 um but so i knew who tamed like the you what is it you hurt me first

00:03:15.700 the one with like the huge bass drop no what is the word

00:03:18.240 you broke me first you broke me first just all over the place when i would be like just drive

00:03:42.460 like the only thing i'd do when i'd go into town was drive to the grocery store and get like

00:03:46.800 grocery pickup during the pandemic like soundtrack um melody and i are huge fans of

00:03:53.880 switched on pop and one of our most popular culture study episodes is about like the the

00:03:59.640 reboot of early 2000s music with switched on pop host nate sloan and then when i heard your episode

00:04:06.480 where you like you guys sometimes switch lead hosting duties where one person is educating

00:04:12.860 and the others yeah about something and you recently were the lead host on an episode about

00:04:19.720 tate mccray and i immediately texted melody and was like melody listen to this episode right now

00:04:25.360 because i want to do an episode of tate mccray that isn't just reproducing the episode that you

00:04:30.140 did yeah but i would love if you can tell our listeners a little bit about how you got interested

00:04:35.420 in tate mccray and also the evolution of your thinking because it's pretty interesting yeah so

00:04:41.320 I started hearing about Tate McRae I wasn't even like listening to Tate McRae until you know a

00:04:49.640 couple years after you frankly like I feel like 2023 is when I began to be culturally aware of

00:04:58.900 Tate McRae I I don't think I had listened to her at that point I just started hearing her name

00:05:03.700 popping up everywhere and i follow the billboard charts kind of religiously and so all of a sudden

00:05:11.540 it seemed out of nowhere one of her songs the song greedy shot up the charts and was in the

00:05:20.280 top 10 for a very long time you know i believe it peaked at number three

00:05:24.080 it was a moment where i was like kind of feeling like slightly out of touch you know yes like i'm

00:05:43.780 only 25 and that was a moment i think maybe one of the first moments where i was like man like

00:05:49.060 am I aging out of young people culture you know because I was like who is this woman

00:05:57.240 she kind of came out of nowhere the name Tate McRae is kind of like to me so generic that I'm 0.89

00:06:04.960 like you know is this like made in a factory for like young gen zers yeah you know and I'm like I 0.82

00:06:12.560 had really like no like I just didn't know who she was you know I had no like prior knowledge 0.97

00:06:21.480 of this person until her song was in the top 10 on Billboard and so that kind of evoked like a

00:06:28.980 fascination within me where I was like okay like now this woman is on my radar I kind of need to

00:06:36.060 know everything about her because right why am I so out of touch and so so I watched a lot of

00:06:45.080 Tate McRae live performances from that moment forward I watched a bunch of her music videos

00:06:50.360 and I kind of became fascinated with her in this sort of like reverse way where I was like oh like

00:06:56.480 I really don't like her music but I want to know why totally totally and this is like in some ways

00:07:03.220 the ethos of our podcast and i think switched on pop too is like yeah every song is actually

00:07:08.820 really interesting every pop phenomenon right is really interesting it doesn't mean that you

00:07:13.920 have to love the music right exactly and i i have like a sensibility about myself where i'm like

00:07:20.560 i don't think there's really any bad quote-unquote music because i think like all music has its

00:07:25.780 audience and if i don't understand it somebody does and that's like the kind of motivation for

00:07:32.100 me to figure out with artists like Tate McRae what am I not getting you know so that's how she

00:07:38.320 came into my into my radar and into my focus and then it was Greedy and then it was X's her second

00:07:44.720 single from that record oh it's so like rhymey and cute

00:07:47.940 oh I'm sorry sorry that you love me change my mind up like a sorry got me oh I'm sorry sorry

00:07:57.420 that you love me I remember you surveyed your friends to say like what's interesting to you

00:08:12.580 or like why do you like her and your friends were like she can dance yeah exactly literally very

00:08:18.900 much that because you know like in my circles I have a lot of friends that are very invested in

00:08:22.780 pop music you know like these queer circles where like pop music is our lives and so I asked a bunch

00:08:28.640 of my friends who would come over for like music video nights and we'd like sit and watch like

00:08:32.880 Tate McCray live performances and I'd be like okay like what am I not getting about this woman

00:08:37.360 and my friends resoundingly were like she can dance and she's pretty in various forms you know

00:08:46.320 I remember one friend that was like okay like why do you like her and he was like oh she's serving

00:08:51.640 And I was like, right. But what is she serving? And he was like, she's just serving like I can't explain it. You know, like it's very like it's shallow. And I hesitate when I say that because there are pop stars who can exist on this sort of like she's serving plane. But it really comes down to like she could dance. She's pretty. Her music is catchy.

00:09:15.160 so i had melody watch the video for race car before this sports car you're talking about

00:09:22.760 and she was like is this trying to be camp but it's not camp right it's low camp

00:09:45.060 right if you were thinking about like she's trying too hard to be camp right so it's not

00:09:50.740 camp right and she's not doing gaga levels of post-modernism no not at all i i think like

00:09:57.620 where it lands for tate is this idea of nostalgic pastiche oh yeah you know where it's like what

00:10:06.920 she's doing is not reinventing the wheel by any means you know and when you watch a video like

00:10:14.260 sports car it's like trying to i guess like like she puts on you know really cool and ornate outfits

00:10:22.580 and like the editing is very like whiplash like lots of cuts lots of different scenes and you

00:10:29.780 could see that like she's trying to like make a cultural moment and where it really lands is like

00:10:36.280 her kind of being what I would call like a blank slate right where it's like you can kind of look

00:10:45.000 at her and be like oh she's beautiful and then you know project whatever you want onto her where

00:10:50.620 you're like oh she's the moment she's giving camp she's serving she's doing all of these things and

00:10:56.640 then you take her image out of it and what are you left with question mark you know yes yes

00:11:05.800 so melody i can hear like she's not saying anything to me but i can hear her in my brain

00:11:10.160 telling me to go backwards and establish who tate mccray is so she did an informal poll on her

00:11:16.260 instagram and we had so she's a middle millennial and i'm an elder millennial okay and she had a lot

00:11:23.500 of responses to her poll of like who is tate mccray like people being like who like they don't

00:11:29.180 know like it's yeah i think she is just not completely on the radar the way that like billy

00:11:36.220 eilish is right yeah of older people i will say that and then tate mccray herself she's 21 0.98

00:11:42.620 yeah and she's from calgary hello alberta and she started as a dancer and she came in third place

00:11:51.380 at on so you think you can dance but like the teen version of so you think and dance right

00:11:55.380 is that true it's like next generation i don't know i just i was watching all these youtube

00:12:01.360 clips and it's all like next generation she's so young she's like salsa-ing and she's nine

00:12:06.600 years old yeah so weird she's been about this life she's been about the choreo life since she

00:12:12.080 was a wee child well she's a dance kid her mom owns a dance studio yeah and we'll get to this

00:12:18.000 later but like and her dad is a lawyer for oil and gas companies and so she grew up she grew up

00:12:24.820 That Rich Kid Life in Calgary.

00:12:27.740 And then she started posting some of her songs to YouTube.

00:12:33.580 Very Justin Bieber-esque in a lot of ways.

00:12:36.940 Billie Eilish, I think, did the same thing.

00:12:39.000 Gracie Abrams.

00:12:40.020 Like, very new school of pop artists getting their start on YouTube.

00:12:44.840 Yeah, like, they find their audience and then grow organically from there.

00:12:48.280 And then she got a record deal in 2019.

00:12:51.580 And then she is considered kind of a COVID artist and that her popularity really took off 2020.

00:12:58.540 And then in February of this year, and this is what preceded the episode of Switched on Pop, she released her third album called.

00:13:07.080 So close to what?

00:13:08.880 You had so much fun with saying this album title in the episode.

00:13:13.520 Because it's a funny album title.

00:13:15.220 What? And it debuted at number one.

00:13:18.340 Did I leave anything out that is important here?

00:13:20.580 No, I think that's pretty much it. I mean, she has had, I think, a pretty steady audience growth, which I think is notable because I think in America, at least, I know she reached her cultural tipping point like with this record so close to what, you know, like it debuted at number one on the 200.

00:13:41.920 Like that's not an easy feat. You know, a lot of people can't do that. And it's just a testament to, I guess, how much Tate is connecting with specifically these younger audiences. Because I agree with you where I'm like, older people don't really know who she is. Even people my age, you know, like the elder Gen Z kind of cusp generation, like, it's kind of a blind spot, I feel like.

00:14:09.040 Yeah, totally.

00:14:10.600 And we'll talk about this, too, in that she is at once incredibly evocative of formative stars for millennials.

00:14:19.200 Yeah.

00:14:19.540 Specifically Britney and Christina Aguilera.

00:14:22.580 Yeah. 0.99

00:14:22.740 But then also not like she that you would think that that would make her more popular amongst older fans, but she's not.

00:14:32.180 Yeah.

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00:17:16.520 The episode today, we're going to try to unpack her star image, including parts of her sound and

00:17:21.220 what she symbolizes in music and pop culture. So to kick us off, we're going to play two questions

00:17:25.800 back to back. And I think it'll be apparent why we're pairing these together. The first question

00:17:30.000 comes from Hannah. I have a question, but it's so hard to pinpoint. Tape McRae's dance, music,

00:17:36.840 aesthetic style is reminiscent of early aughts Britney and Christina, but in today's music

00:17:42.620 landscape, I'm having a hard time not hearing her music as tired sounds or tired style. I'm a

00:17:48.860 millennial. Tate McCray confuses me. I'm not sure what she's offering. Her music sounds contemporary

00:17:55.420 as in it fits into the popular soundscape, but what is it offering that's different and why is

00:18:01.880 she so popular? I guess my question is, am I confused by Tate McRae because her brand doesn't

00:18:07.900 include access to her as a character or personality, like say Sabrina Carpenter or

00:18:13.420 Chapel Roan, who are so distinctive? And then the second question comes from Catherine.

00:18:18.940 So I'm less puzzled by Tate McRae than by the puzzlement over Tate McRae. To me,

00:18:25.580 she seems like a nice kid working out an early career who's got some bangers.

00:18:30.740 It's probably partly because I'm from Alberta and enough older than Tate that her sort of early

00:18:35.020 aunt's persona in terms of vibe and aesthetic reminds me of my best friend from high school,

00:18:39.660 whom I've just always thought was the most beautiful and charismatic person. Tate seems

00:18:45.080 totally intelligible to me. So my question is not why the hype, but why the puzzled discourse?

00:18:51.560 Why do people seem to think Tate owes them something? And what do they think she might owe

00:18:56.360 them I don't think people think that Tate owes them anything I think that they're trying to think

00:19:03.420 about why is she so popular and you know the the description of like this is like my beautiful

00:19:10.560 friend from high school yeah absolutely like she is like the coolest girl in high school right 0.99

00:19:17.780 exactly like I think when she started to become famous me and my friends were like likening her 0.89

00:19:24.020 to yeah like that girl in high school that is so popular but like is also nice to everybody 0.92

00:19:31.540 you know yeah she has a nice face yeah the popular girl that will always say hi to you

00:19:36.340 in the hallway because you had a class together a year ago you know what I mean like that's

00:19:40.280 the energy that she's putting out and Britney always had that energy too Christina was like 1.00

00:19:46.200 no that bitch is mean right like there was like a real viciousness that at least oscillated 1.00

00:19:52.760 around her I'm not talking about who she is in real life yeah that was the image that was around 1.00

00:19:56.940 her and I think that that similarity to Britney is instructive I do think that like millennials

00:20:03.040 love Billie Eilish they love Olivia Rodrigo like those were the weirdos when we were like that was

00:20:10.160 like liking Fiona Apple when I was in high school which I did right and so like it's very easy for

00:20:16.860 me to glom onto the the more musically complicated i would say and like sad just like a nerd who

00:20:25.920 makes good kind of image is easier whereas and we'll get to this later but i think that like

00:20:32.840 there is some mistaken nostalgia around britney like britney was basic like think about what gen

00:20:38.720 xers and boomers were probably thinking about britney when she came out it was like this is

00:20:44.220 the most popular girl in the school and like what is going on with these videos she can't really

00:20:48.540 sing necessarily you know like right like she's just an image yes yeah she just represents this 0.82

00:20:55.380 like virgin whore dichotomy she is ripping off madonna um in all of these different ways and now 0.99

00:21:05.320 millennials because of everything that happened to britney over the course of the 2000s

00:21:09.680 i think have a much more layered understanding of who britney was and who she represents right

00:21:14.840 so like a kind of like retconning britney into being something that like was universally loved

00:21:21.500 yes okay i mean like i didn't love britney when i was in like i didn't own any of her albums

00:21:27.860 she was just the most popular thing yeah right and why would you love the most popular thing

00:21:35.600 you know we love to hate on what's popular and maybe that's why people are so puzzled by tate

00:21:41.780 mccray you know to go back to these questions like i think she projects this energy that is

00:21:48.480 off-putting to a lot of people per chance you know like i think like something tate does that

00:21:55.380 is really great to some people and not so great to other people is that she's kind of like

00:22:02.160 nostalgia farming a little bit and is kind of pulling from all of these different artists that

00:22:09.280 we already know you know and her music which is something i talk about in the switched on pop

00:22:15.200 episode like sounds like other songs that are demonstrated hits that people love and so i think

00:22:23.760 like she is kind of i said this already like kind of a blank slate but in the way where you could

00:22:31.380 project your already formed thoughts and opinions on other artists and other time periods onto her

00:22:39.140 because she puts that in her music if that makes sense yeah so melody always hears cursive singing

00:22:45.080 when she listens to it which is a term that i like i first heard on switch on pop can you describe

00:22:50.140 what cursive singing is oh yeah so you will know cursive singing when you hear it it is a style of

00:22:59.080 singing that was I don't want to say like originated in the 2010s but definitely like

00:23:06.460 found its audience in the 2010s with artists like Halsey and Camila Cabello this style of singing

00:23:13.980 that elongates certain vowels and kind of pushes your vocals to like create unnatural syllables

00:23:24.600 in words you know i i think often of this vine you know that was that that went around that was

00:23:33.180 somebody making fun of cursive singing particularly i think halsey because halsey was really big at

00:23:37.780 the time and they're singing welcome to my kitchen you know but it's like welcome to my kitchen which

00:23:44.480 sounds a little bit like bjork if i'm doing it personally welcome to my kitchen we have bananas

00:23:52.240 but it's like the way that they sing they elongate certain vowels they kind of stretch

00:24:03.800 their vocals tate does it by kind of being very in her in her nose i think like she has like a

00:24:12.400 nasally voice and when she sings the way that you hear it it sounds kind of kind of garbled

00:24:21.700 a little bit you know and it sounds sort of untrained you know like you listen to somebody

00:24:27.600 like Adele who is like belting right and enunciating and you could hear every syllable

00:24:33.480 that she's singing versus somebody like Tate McRae somebody like Camila Cabello who is kind of like

00:24:40.200 floating through words floating through melodies um and the reason why it's called cursive singing

00:24:47.480 is because it sounds like you're writing in cursive you know and everything like goes into

00:24:53.100 the next word right like everything is flowing everything is like kind of connecting with one

00:24:59.000 another in a way that's indistinct and there's a little bit of sexy baby in there too oh for sure

00:25:04.560 I think that's, like, a fundamental part of cursive singing is, like, sexy baby.

00:25:10.440 We had a former fundamentalist housewife on the show several months ago, and she told us about Fundy Baby Voice.

00:25:20.520 What is that? What is that?

00:25:22.380 Melody, can you do Fundy Baby Voice?

00:25:25.300 I've just been asking God to really show me the plan that he has for us. 1.00

00:25:32.540 some people call it keeping sweet but you just you don't talk like a big girl

00:25:38.540 yeah and um and you know britney had fundy baby voice which was you know like makes sense in terms

00:25:46.400 of like all of the discourse around purity that was circulating around her right and this is like

00:25:52.260 fundy baby voice evacuated of a religion entirely right yeah um and then there's also like melody

00:26:00.620 you also mentioned to me this morning that every time she listens to a tate mccray song a different

00:26:04.440 song not by tate mccray gets in her head like exactly exactly like buttons is the one that

00:26:11.180 always gets in my head right by um pussycat dolls after listening to sports car yes not race car

00:26:18.840 i think that's a fundamental part of why again why people like tate mccray is because she kind

00:26:25.340 of serves as this conduit for other thoughts other feelings other emotions you know it's like

00:26:29.920 I listen to a Tate McRae song like Two Hands.

00:26:33.840 I want your two hands.

00:26:35.820 Don't ever let me go.

00:26:38.380 I want your two hands.

00:26:40.840 Two hands on me.

00:26:42.620 I think the beginning of Two Hands is directly ripped from Slide by Frank Ocean and Calvin Harris.

00:26:48.800 Yeah.

00:26:48.980 Amigos. 0.93

00:26:49.880 Empty my banking cap. 0.95

00:26:52.000 And fight a boy with a pipe. 0.96

00:26:54.400 Fight a boy with a pipe. 0.97

00:26:56.600 I might. 0.66

00:26:57.660 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:26:58.240 But I think that connection and that sound-alike opening makes me think of Slide, a song that I really enjoy, a song that defined my summer when it came out, and that makes me like two hands more.

00:27:15.560 You know, I think it's intentional. I think it's intentional nostalgia farming. I think by putting these kind of vague, placeless musical sensibilities in her music, it gets people to connect with her songs in a way that perhaps they wouldn't do organically if that wasn't there.

00:27:36.240 You know, that's an interesting way to think about it, because I think when I see songs that interpolate songs from my teenage years, to me, I think my first reaction is like, how uncreative.

00:27:51.280 Yes, right.

00:27:52.060 get a new song like you don't need to do that like the blue song like boring you know like

00:27:58.060 yeah that song sucked when it came out you don't need to do it again uh but i but then that's an

00:28:03.620 interesting way of thinking about the nostalgia farming as like also offering these different

00:28:07.940 access points for people well right because it's like whether or not you actually like the

00:28:13.360 interpolation and you actually like what the placement is doing it's the feelings that it

00:28:20.360 evokes that's why people keep interpolating that's why there's like whole song camps devoted

00:28:25.020 to interpolating old songs for new purposes like it has a demonstrated psychological effect whether

00:28:32.680 or not like you're privy to it or you like it even yeah um which i i think is part of why

00:28:40.640 tate mccray is successful i think especially for gen z who like weren't around or culturally aware

00:28:49.700 like gen alpha as well who who weren't present for say buttons by pussycat dolls being right

00:28:57.940 the cultural moment you know like this kind of like what a moment it was yeah let's say you know

00:29:03.940 and i and i think that like older listeners to this show need to remember like that nostalgia

00:29:09.480 i think our first impulse is to be like oh my god i wish that you knew what it was actually like in

00:29:14.900 1999 right right but like there were parts of it that ruled and that i would be nostalgic for and

00:29:21.440 in 1997 98 like i was in love with dazed and confused and the soundtrack to dazed and confused

00:29:28.480 and my parents were like what is wrong with you the 70s sucked right right but like nostalgia is

00:29:35.540 like cyclical you know like we're in these moments where like yeah of course tate mccray an artist

00:29:41.640 in 2025 is calling back to sounds that were popular 20 years ago you know like you could

00:29:48.620 place her music sonically in 2005 and it's like right of course the way the people in the 90s

00:29:54.380 were calling on 1970 and so on and so forth I think like you take that the nostalgia farming

00:30:01.160 and put it with Tate McRae's use of chorus and hooks and like the way that she's able to

00:30:09.680 sing these earworms that kind of like bore itself into your head and I mean that not derogatorily

00:30:16.640 you know like you know when you listen to like a song and there's like six different choruses in it

00:30:22.040 and they all kind of are worming their way into your psyche and then you're singing like different

00:30:27.200 parts of the song throughout the day well and what's the name of the producer who's responsible

00:30:31.160 for that thinking of like do a hook and then do another hook yeah do an even better hook so that

00:30:36.840 your song has like six hooks in it yeah ryan tetter ryan tetter who is a really famous songwriter and

00:30:44.060 producer people might know him as the dude behind one republic and he is basically one of the

00:30:52.900 greatest songwriters of the new century essentially you know like he he is able to write these songs

00:31:01.860 whether you like him or not because i have thoughts on him but whether you like him or not

00:31:05.700 he's able to craft a hit and Tate McRae is kind of his pet project you know he's worked on all of

00:31:12.380 her music and the Ryan Tedder method something we talk about on Switched on Pop the host Charlie

00:31:19.100 talks about is Ryan Tedder's method to writing songs which is all hooks like you don't write a

00:31:26.240 verse you're writing a hook you're writing another hook you're writing another hook and then for the

00:31:30.300 bridge it's another hook and you kind of like jenga these hooks together until you have a song

00:31:37.240 that is the catchiest part over and over and over and over again right right and it's kind of

00:31:43.700 confusing sonically yeah you don't have like the rest from the hook right does that make sense yeah

00:31:48.860 well i mean that's like my issue with tate mccray songs or it was my issue with tate mccray songs

00:31:54.740 before i really listened to her and i was hearing songs like x's on the radio like x's

00:31:59.820 confused me deeply because I didn't know where the hook was and in my head I kind of saw it as like

00:32:08.060 this is the death of the chorus you know like to be really grandiose about it because that song

00:32:15.680 has so many hooks that the idea of a hook is kind of removed you know like what happens when

00:32:24.200 you have no buildup and you have no come down and you have no breaking up of everything. Like

00:32:31.260 everything is kind of just all catchy all the time. And it's a proven method that clearly works

00:32:38.580 because Brian Tedder is very prolific. But at the same time, for some listeners, it can be

00:32:46.220 very boring you know to put it bluntly or like kind of grating in a way you know like you like

00:32:55.160 you know how like a jingle is like just a melody and it's supposed to be catching in your head but

00:33:00.820 it's like 10 jingles you know yeah exactly yeah so we're gonna read these next two together because

00:33:07.380 i think that they will complement each other and they also offer some theory on the question of

00:33:13.100 confusing popularity. This first one comes from Shazwina, and Melody's going to read it.

00:33:18.080 It seems like Tate McRae is stuck in an interesting spot. A lot of name recognition,

00:33:23.100 like people have heard of her, but not brand or personality recognition. Is it an issue of

00:33:28.620 our fragmented media, like there not being a monoculture? Or is she just not distinctive

00:33:33.880 enough in personality to have a following, to have fans who find something to relate and look up to?

00:33:39.460 I think of her as Britney adjacent in terms of music and performance, but I can't place her as a character.

00:33:46.240 Okay, and then the second one is from Carrie.

00:33:49.300 I heard Tate in a podcast interview talking about the frequent comparison between her and Britney Spears like it was obvious. 0.95

00:33:57.280 I don't understand the comparison besides Tate dances sexy. 1.00

00:34:02.300 She wears low-rise bottoms. 0.99

00:34:04.820 Can you explain?

00:34:05.660 Would love to hear your thoughts.

00:34:06.680 dancing sexy is like such a like you know a popular girl thing uh yeah i i do wonder if how

00:34:16.920 the the lack of image in our brains is maybe a factor of both you and i being slightly out of

00:34:24.420 her demo yeah yeah i i think so as well because i'm sure there's like tons of of gen alpha kids

00:34:32.220 frankly that are looking at to hate mccray and knowing so much about her the way that like i

00:34:38.780 don't know when i was younger i was really into like one direction and like fallout boy you know

00:34:43.140 and like i like imagine that somebody not in those fan bases or those demos would look at

00:34:51.140 those artists and be like what the hell are you gleaning from pete wentz you know but

00:34:55.460 you know I'm like I could imagine maybe some something similar is happening with young people

00:35:02.280 and Tate McRae I don't know yeah no and I think especially in Canada she has I think a much more

00:35:07.600 solid image as like hockey family girl yes yes totally and in America I think like that's my

00:35:16.420 main takeaway from Tate McRae you know however reductive that it might be like yep I think

00:35:23.300 the two things that i knew about tate mccray prior to like researching her music is that

00:35:30.100 she was canadian and she was a dancer you know and i mean it could be argued like what else do

00:35:36.600 you need you know especially but i think the specifics are important here because it's not

00:35:41.600 like she's from toronto right like she is from it'd be like being from i don't know like maybe

00:35:49.580 a little more being from dallas right distinct right like unique personality yeah or like

00:35:56.660 minneapolis and someone uh posited in one of the questions they were like she is basically she's

00:36:03.280 like every hockey family there's a dancer there's a girl in a hockey family who didn't want to play

00:36:08.160 hockey or like there were gender politics going on that made it difficult to play hockey and so 0.51

00:36:14.320 she becomes a dancer instead like there's this real pairing of hockey and dancing and this was

00:36:18.860 true in my minnesota family's world as well like it was two older brothers who are really good

00:36:25.480 hockey players a younger sister who was a really good hockey player and then a really good dancer

00:36:29.520 and it's like the families all they know is the commitment to 24-hour sports right like you are

00:36:36.360 just like the whole family rotates around the activities of the kids and even if that includes

00:36:43.640 like for rink time sometimes you can only get rink time at like 11 p.m so that just becomes

00:36:48.580 the new norm it's just i mean that's an extra layer for us to think about here is that like

00:36:52.700 the elevation of of the kid above the parents needs um this is enlightening also yeah i'm

00:36:59.280 learning a lot about the family dynamics we don't i don't know this for sure i did find an instagram

00:37:05.580 account that's just devoted to tate mccray's family word okay period and it says like tate

00:37:12.440 And her brother, who has a name, like, I don't know, Tater Tatum.

00:37:15.980 It's not.

00:37:17.400 But and then it's like, and then to Mr. and Mrs. McRae.

00:37:20.960 Like, it's very deferential and clearly a teen did it.

00:37:24.240 It's very cute.

00:37:26.720 So there's that specificity that we're missing.

00:37:29.440 But I also think she is, and you talk about this a little bit in the episode, she is sort of like B-level. 0.86

00:37:35.720 And I mean that as in like she's, Brittany was virgin whore, groundbreaking, a new kind of pop star when she went wide with Hit Me Baby One More Time.

00:37:47.660 And then there were all of these other pop stars whose images were evocative in similar ways.

00:37:53.440 So Christina, of course, but also Mandy Moore and Jessica Simpson, right?

00:37:58.920 Like doing the same thing, sounding the same in a lot of ways.

00:38:03.160 Yeah.

00:38:03.400 And so who's the first order, Tate McRae? Like, that's the thing. I can't be like, she's not a knockoff of Britney, but who is her first order?

00:38:12.080 Well, in the switched on pop episode, I kind of draw this conclusion after, you know, discussing her music for a while. And I feel like a lot of people put emphasis on Tate's dancing above all else. I liken Tate McRae to somebody like Paula Abdul, right? Like somebody who started as a dancer, then made music. And it's like this idea of like the pop music B team where it's like, we're not looking to somebody like Paula Abdul.

00:38:40.940 I mean, I wasn't alive when she was making hits, so I can't, it's neither here nor there, but you know, I can imagine people weren't looking to Paula Abdul to like radically change the way that we were consuming pop music. That was Madonna's job, you know, that was Janet Jackson's job.

00:38:58.800 and Paula kind of served as like this character who's giving us bops and she's gonna be cool to

00:39:07.680 look at and she's gonna put a cartoon cat in the video we're all gonna go crazy over it I wish you

00:39:13.320 could understand how cool I thought that was at age like nine when it came out right you know

00:39:18.020 what I mean like it's something that appeals I think to young people in a way that I think is

00:39:24.000 perhaps a little foreign for people to to understand you know I I can't really explain

00:39:30.280 why like when I was a kid I was super obsessed with like random like hardcore like bands and

00:39:38.840 like random acts that were like so irrelevant you know what I mean and but I like I don't know

00:39:45.260 something when you're a kid you like gravitate towards those things and you make them your own

00:39:50.120 And I think part of why Tate McRae is so successful without a defined character is because, like, her demo, I can imagine, is younger people who look at her and they go, oh, my God, like, I want to be her, you know, and her character is somebody to aspire to be for young people, if that makes sense.

00:40:14.260 Yeah, no, for sure.

00:40:15.200 It's like reading Seventeen magazine when I was 13.

00:40:17.520 Yeah, right.

00:40:18.700 No, exactly.

00:40:19.440 you're like oh my god this person is so cool and maybe that's her character she kind of radiates

00:40:24.620 this like effervescent popular girl coolness you know yeah and maybe it's unreadable to a lot of

00:40:30.580 people you know it's not as distinct as we had a question earlier comparing her to Sabrina Carpenter

00:40:35.420 or Chapel Rhone it's like Tate's character is not as distinct but like we can argue that like

00:40:43.420 the popular girl cool girl hockey adjacent dancer is still a personality i feel like

00:40:50.520 well and i think part of this too is that she comes up through dance instead of through acting

00:40:54.880 right so like sabrina carpenter selena gomez like they're coming up through like saying words on

00:41:02.640 stage and developing characters that they relate to whereas dancers like it is a wordless relation

00:41:09.720 it's like oh I like watching them dance like it's very unidirectional yeah you know that's

00:41:14.980 really interesting I've never thought about that before and even like the male gaze like

00:41:18.660 we had another question about Sabrina Carpenter feeling more resistant to the male gaze than

00:41:24.080 Tate does and I think that that has to do with the fact that like she is foremost positioned

00:41:29.300 herself as a dancer and not as an actor wow that is really interesting because yeah you look at

00:41:34.540 this crop of of pop stars right people that have had experience in acting you know like Miley Cyrus

00:41:42.660 and yeah you know Sabrina Carpenter next to people like I don't know if you're familiar with Addison 0.99

00:41:48.460 Ray who is gaining popularity but she came from TikTok in a medium where she wasn't speaking she

00:41:55.780 was doing dancing videos in her living room and that's a really interesting point about this

00:42:00.600 generation of pop stars like it's it's not so much from or they're not so much coming from like

00:42:06.960 the disney or nickelodeon pipeline they're coming from like self-made talent quotes around talent

00:42:15.560 you know because you could argue like tiktok dances but there's like a charm and a personality

00:42:20.060 there that's carried off in just aura you know it's like yeah you don't need words and like even

00:42:27.880 the way the way that you're taught to perform when you're trained as a dancer like the way

00:42:34.280 that your face looks like you're you're performing sexy face yeah right yeah and I think when you're

00:42:41.280 acting when you have to transition between like speaking lines and then going into singing like

00:42:47.140 the variety show style that was the mickey mouse club or nickelodeon right you you have to negotiate

00:42:54.980 this this charisma this transitional charisma that i don't think tate has ever had like she

00:43:01.020 hasn't had to flex or grow that muscle yeah but does she need it right she doesn't that's the

00:43:06.880 thing like she can just be a dancer she can just be jessica alba like that's an interesting

00:43:10.720 comparison right right totally totally um okay next question comes from okay we're talking about 0.82

00:43:21.360 the dancing part this comes from Farrah about Tate McRae I keep seeing that she's a really good 0.90

00:43:26.900 dancer but to my untrained eye her moves look similar to a lot of pop stars is she that much

00:43:32.500 better of a dancer than her contemporaries is it really the dancing that's propelling her to this

00:43:37.320 level of stardom I wish I was a dancer I wish I wish I could give you like a really thought out

00:43:43.360 like choreographers answer about why tate mccray is so known for her dancing you know she has all 0.93

00:43:52.840 of these like class like modern dance things that you see more in the solo components like lots of 1.00

00:44:00.580 like laying on your back and putting a foot up in the air like like that sort of thing right right

00:44:06.260 and then her group dancing i watched i juxtaposed watching a lot of videos of her with early britney

00:44:13.100 they are pretty similar just in terms of lots of cuts yeah to make the dancing seem

00:44:21.480 more dynamic than it might actually be i would say uh and then i also think that she is a

00:44:28.160 descendant of like the step-up style of dancing right that's like staccato almost yeah yeah like

00:44:37.520 kind of this like street era yeah of dancing totally yeah totally whereas like britney is

00:44:44.580 much more like let's get in a v and you know what i mean yeah i think something also about tate that

00:44:51.880 i noticed and this term i learned from an episode of glee when i was younger hairography oh so much

00:45:00.520 Tara Tate is really great at hairography and I think maybe that like distracts from maybe you 0.81

00:45:11.480 know in uh an imperfect quality to her dancing again like I'm not a dancer so I can't like 1.00

00:45:17.760 say whether or not whipping her hair right you know she has this long beautiful hair that you 1.00

00:45:24.400 know you watch videos of her live I think there's a break and maybe exes where she like has a 0.99

00:45:29.420 breakdown when she performs the song live she always has these breaks yeah yeah yeah and which

00:45:34.960 is good because it highlights what she's good at which is dancing um but the hairography is a big

00:45:40.020 part of it where she's kind of like whipping her long hair around and like moving in such a way 0.82

00:45:45.340 that it it flows you know like i think like the movement of the body that tate implements is

00:45:53.700 something that's fascinating to me I don't know I I don't follow much dance but what I do follow

00:46:00.520 is like movement videos yeah from like you know the mid 1900s or the 1900s is a lot I'm talking

00:46:11.620 about like like one of my favorite artists is Merce Cunningham who was this choreographer

00:46:15.420 and worked a lot with like John Cage and all of these other people and he has these movement

00:46:20.720 videos where like you know he does these like jerky movements and he's filming dancers and and

00:46:27.320 the dancers choreo and they're doing these like jerky movements that call attention to like 0.76

00:46:31.860 how the body moves like modernist shit yeah you know what i mean like how like weird and funky 0.79

00:46:38.380 the human body can move and to bring it back to tate mccray i think like when she does this 0.97

00:46:47.620 choreography it evokes a similar thing where you're like wow the human body can do such amazing 0.99

00:46:54.920 movements does she strike you as tall interesting she's five eight i looked this up yeah she's tall 0.97

00:47:03.040 and she that's because you're tall is very tall well sabrina carpenter's like 4 11 so okay gaga 1.00

00:47:11.320 that's five foot two famously yeah so you know maybe we need like an average height pop 1.00

00:47:16.620 i'm just thinking of in terms of her height and then you add like another three feet 1.00

00:47:22.360 onto her extension with her hair right like it makes like a fluid line it's like um 0.99

00:47:31.460 rhythmic gymnasts you know have those little ribbons yes i think we're on to something here

00:47:37.160 I have an addition to this, too, which is like you guys reminding me of the other stars that came through the Disney pipeline and the ongoing joke about the Disney knees.

00:47:47.460 Oh, you know, where it's like the one move that they all have is just sort of like knocking their knees together in time.

00:47:53.380 Speaking about like Olivia Rodrigo's SNL performance, she doesn't really dance other than just like knocking her knees together. And I can't think of any of other Tate's contemporaries who are dancing in the complicated way that she is. So like, I'm also not a dancer. Also don't know if she's like technically good or not, although I assume she is if she's like lifelong trained. But the level is way different than what her contemporaries are doing.

00:48:20.840 Yeah, that's and I think that contributes to this success. We really need to give her credit for being a dancer, because I think in this TikTok era of music where we have a lot of artists coming from TikTok and YouTube where they're sitting behind their pianos, like Tate is giving performance in a way that, you know, I don't think a lot of Gen Z pop stars are doing presently.

00:48:48.140 You know, like you watch like someone like Billie Eilish, who is one of the biggest pop stars in the world, like she doesn't dance, you know, like even like Charlie XCX doesn't dance like these pop stars.

00:49:01.300 They kind of just like stand there and move and moving is a lot different than dancing.

00:49:05.740 And I think like Tate is able to distinguish herself from other people because she is a dancer and she did place third on her season of So You Think You Can Dance.

00:49:17.780 so i i don't think it's like allow canadian votes like exactly like if they allowed canadian votes

00:49:23.760 she may have won her season is the thing so like you know i mean she is by all accounts

00:49:30.620 a pretty good dancer you know generally speaking for sure for sure and like 1.00

00:49:36.780 millennials will talk about the the how they felt when they saw britney perform

00:49:42.180 with the snake for i'm a slave to you like that cemented our understanding of what good dancing

00:49:48.660 looks like the same way that i'm sure madonna cemented or janet jackson also was incredibly

00:49:54.100 influential in terms of what i thought good dancing looked like yeah or j-lo i mean we

00:49:59.480 haven't even talked about j-lo yet right yeah there's a tradition of very good dancers

00:50:04.420 middling vocals yeah memorable images that like stay with you even if in this case it's one that

00:50:12.100 when you map yourself onto right no real there there paula abdul and the paula paula abdul what

00:50:18.800 i mean she was a judge on american i like that yeah people understood her as a having discernment 0.78

00:50:26.180 when it came to talent people for many years right like she has charisma you know where she

00:50:32.380 could parlay that into a judging gig where you arguably sustain yourself on just charisma yes

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00:52:56.760 for sponsoring this episode. Our last two questions are going to go back to back, and

00:53:06.100 we will be able to revisit some of our Canada feelings. This is about Tate, Canada, and hockey.

00:53:12.540 The first question comes from Lauren, and Melody's going to read it.

00:53:15.440 This is just a semi-chill comment and not a serious question, sorry, from a British Columbian,

00:53:20.360 but it makes all the sense that a girl from Calgary with an oil dad is the Canadian star

00:53:26.020 to get widespread American attention? Classic Canada. Alternative Q, what's with the male gaze

00:53:32.020 in Tate and that goalie outfit subverting the male gaze like pissing off hockey fans by wearing the

00:53:37.380 pads wrong? And then the second question comes from Allison, and Melody's going to read it.

00:53:44.300 Explain Tate's connection to hockey culture and sports in general. I took my 14-year-old daughter

00:53:49.400 and her friends to her concert last summer. We also saw Olivia Rodrigo, Sabrina Carpenter,

00:53:54.200 and she saw taylor too and the vibe is so different the clothing the fans wear the hockey

00:53:59.620 jerseys and pennies and we play hockey but i've not seen the kind of outfits on fans like i did

00:54:04.980 for tate how and why hockey i know she's from calgary okay so the hockey pads thing in the

00:54:11.340 cover image of her second album think later she's standing in a black tank top and underwear and

00:54:17.200 then there are like goalie pads leaning against her legs and the words think later on them yeah

00:54:21.900 but the pads are on the wrong legs and then in one of the posters promoting a tour

00:54:26.340 she's wearing a bedazzled jersey uh she has also performed at many hockey halftimes

00:54:33.080 the hockey i think she performed at the nhl all-star game um fitting yeah so what are your

00:54:42.440 thoughts on this well i've been talking a lot about this kind of cultural awareness that i

00:54:48.680 gained of tate mccray through hearing her music yeah before i was aware of tate mccray and her

00:54:56.960 like pop music and her impact i i think i learned about her this is like reminding me i think i

00:55:04.380 learned about her from a tweet that was calling her a puck bunny yes because i think she famously

00:55:14.580 dated a hockey player yes and that motivated most of her songwriting i think on think later

00:55:22.080 which was the album that blew up got very big um i think that was how or at least was one of

00:55:31.460 the first things i i i gained uh knowledge about tate mccray the the term puck bunny kind of

00:55:39.280 ping pongs around my head which is implied that it's somebody who is fascinated by and continues

00:55:45.580 to date hockey player like a like a hockey player groupie basically yes i think that the the point

00:55:51.620 that the first question asker makes that like oh of course this would be the canadian star who

00:55:57.840 translates to american audiences well right yeah yeah defines like personality i think or like

00:56:05.040 you know like it's like oh right Canadian in my head oh maple leaves hockey right like syrup like

00:56:11.580 all these like stereotypical Canadian images that she's pinning onto her her presentation

00:56:19.560 and also like pretty Americanized understanding right like totally this upper middle class rich

00:56:26.500 kid whose dad is a lawyer like that is relatable across lines yeah yeah I mean yeah and I think

00:56:33.820 like also a lot of people dance you know i think like a lot of people you know either when their

00:56:38.720 kids are there now like i i can't dance but i took a dance class when i was like six you know

00:56:43.300 because my mom made me like it's like these are things that that make her make her relatable i

00:56:49.660 think you know melody has this theory that i'm wondering if we can like intersect here and she

00:56:56.020 was trying to figure out why all of these other gen z stars have entered into her algorithm

00:57:04.660 in various ways like she's become deeply familiar with all of them but not tate mccray like nowhere

00:57:11.180 in her tiktok algo and her theory is that it's because she's conservative coded what did your

00:57:18.460 sister say melody my sister unlocked it all for me this morning because i was telling her about

00:57:23.120 this recording and she was like i can't explain it but like she has hawk to a girl energy okay and

00:57:29.380 i was like yes that's it like that's why she's not in my algorithms yeah i i think that's

00:57:36.240 interesting something that i wanted to talk about in the switched on pop episode about tate mccray

00:57:41.220 that didn't really fit into our larger analysis was like there is a quote-unquote bimboian

00:57:49.360 presentation to tate yeah that i think a connects with the male gaze and b connects largely to like

00:57:56.020 cultural trends of the 2020s and i think in america you know we're in trump presidency too

00:58:03.440 and i think america writ large is being moved into this more conservative direction

00:58:08.820 like young people are being pushed in a more sexless direction yeah you know a more kind of

00:58:16.920 an era that is I would say like devoid of culture frankly and like what makes and defines popular

00:58:26.320 culture and I think somebody like Tate who clearly has admiration in her head for stars like

00:58:34.260 Janet Jackson and Madonna these deeply sexy like radiating sex appeal pop stars but existing

00:58:42.240 in this era of culture is kind of watering that down you know and and i think going back to like 0.88

00:58:50.660 the bimbo-ness of it it's like tate mccray's character to a lot of people is like i'm sexy

00:58:56.900 i can dance and i sing about being sexy like that's it like that's the start and the end of

00:59:03.120 the conversation um and i i do think there's like a real point to the fact that like in america

00:59:11.960 at least speaking for myself like country music is bigger than ever we see all of these artists

00:59:17.560 pivot to more conservative aesthetics and a more conservative audience frankly like i think of like

00:59:25.120 post malone who did rap music transition to rock and now did his coachella headlining set

00:59:31.980 full country you know with like a whole country band kind of retconning his old hip-hop songs

00:59:38.800 into country songs um I I think there's something notable to say there about like the conservative

00:59:47.540 tide of of culture and the fame of somebody like Tate McRae who is a blank slate other than being

00:59:56.260 like I am sexy and I have cool girl popular girl energy and she collaborated with Morgan Wallen

01:00:01.900 a lot of listeners pointed that out right yeah whose politics are um i would just say not

01:00:09.560 progressive uh right exactly and i also it reminds me to you know like if we're looking at the echo

01:00:16.640 of of britney christina like late 90s early 2000s like that was an incredible moment of backlash

01:00:22.480 against feminism and just like backlash culture generally and we're in another one of those

01:00:28.040 moments right now right right like that's the echo to me I like that I like that I feel like

01:00:34.260 like yeah we're in this like I think there was a moment perhaps like in the late 2000s and early

01:00:42.880 2010s where our pop artists that were gaining a lot of popularity like Lady Gaga like Lorde you

01:00:50.160 know these artists that were very like defined and defiant in the sense that they like pushed back

01:00:57.500 on what was normal at the time and they both changed pop music as a result you know they were

01:01:03.040 very internal in that like they were kind of the shepherd of their own image totally and i think

01:01:10.060 tate coming from this new era is not really pushing against anything and yet is having

01:01:21.200 still massive popularity with this album so close to what being number one on the billboard 200

01:01:27.080 like there is the same type of celebrity just without I think the like pushing against norms

01:01:36.480 you know which perhaps factors into this larger conservative era yeah well and even just think

01:01:42.080 of the word conservative like I think sometimes we we miss it's it's primary evocation which is

01:01:48.580 it's not pushing boundaries right it's not radical by any means no yeah it's just it's the like

01:01:55.460 second tier iteration very safe in a lot of different ways right and a throwback like that

01:02:03.120 nostalgia you know like mega is nostalgia right like they are all related yeah so i think tate

01:02:09.620 mccray is part of this culture cycle that we're in for better or for worse you know what i mean

01:02:16.560 yeah and we don't know what her personal politics are necessarily but that doesn't mean that like

01:02:22.500 it's sort of like how taylor swift was utilized by white nationalism like that doesn't mean that

01:02:28.740 taylor swift is a white nationalist it just means that like her popularity was uh exploited by a

01:02:37.880 group that was gaining prominence at that time right like the imagery that she projects is

01:02:43.640 in line i think with what is coming back in vogue unfortunately and i would be very

01:02:52.320 interested to see where Tate McRae is in 10 years oh yeah I mean me as well because I think like

01:02:58.160 this album is it has good songs on it you know like I really like Revolving Door for example

01:03:04.320 like I think that's a great pop song but I'm curious to see what she does that's not tied

01:03:12.200 to nostalgia cycles you know like I think she started putting out music and it was very in

01:03:17.520 like the pop punk vein of what was trendy in the beginning of the 2020s you know and now we're in

01:03:23.700 this moment where everybody's trying to be Britney and she's making music that is Britney Spears

01:03:29.040 coded like I am also curious to see where she goes in her career and hopefully does something

01:03:35.860 that's not tied to nostalgia you know yeah yeah well and I think about like watching Miley Cyrus

01:03:45.300 i remember just being so annoyed by her i mean like what are you doing like this is so like

01:03:52.660 you're just you're trying to push like it's it was such a clear and obvious rebellion in so many

01:03:57.200 different ways right and like bangers era right like yeah yeah bangers era even though i really

01:04:01.440 liked a lot of the song on band like that that album perfect pop album tops the bottom it's so

01:04:06.400 long yeah anyway and then watching where she is now 10 years later i'm like this is a woman who

01:04:13.480 was going to have a long and varied career right like I cannot wait to see where her artistry

01:04:19.840 leads her and I think that there is that potential like if you watch those early like 2017 videos of

01:04:26.080 Tate like singing on her keyboard like yeah there there's something there and so it depends on where

01:04:31.400 she wants to take it yeah and I think the Miley comparison is apt because I think a lot of as

01:04:38.340 we've been saying a lot of young listeners gravitate towards Tate McRae and I was thinking

01:04:42.740 recently like i've been a fan of miley cyrus since i was like six years old and i have the

01:04:48.000 hannah montana cd you know yeah um i i have been following her ever since and i can imagine

01:04:55.020 maybe there's some young listeners who are really gonna come of age listening to tate mccray

01:05:01.260 yeah which you know i i think is is kind of beautiful really you know like yeah no and like

01:05:08.220 i learned a lot coming of age listening to britney spears in the background like you learn

01:05:12.600 what you believe and don't believe in terms of how you accept or reject that image or negotiate

01:05:19.120 that image right like I remember I seen a guy had a the Britney with like with her legs out behind

01:05:25.760 her it's a very classic image that came with the first album I believe a guy had that poster on

01:05:30.760 his wall when I was in high school I was like I don't want to date that guy

01:05:34.200 totally it's instructive well this has been a total pleasure we will put like 17 different

01:05:44.100 links to the episode that we evoke so many times in this in this episode um if people want to find

01:05:50.200 more of you on the internet where can they find you so i am still producing switched on pop so

01:05:55.100 you can totally listen to that um and i'm on twitter at bit burger b-i-p-p burger

01:06:01.740 amazing yeah it's a song it's a really good song um by you can't change your handle now

01:06:09.800 exactly it's my it's my defined um my defined persona is bit burger so that's where we're at

01:06:17.740 amazing amazing thank you so much for being here thank you for having me

01:06:31.740 Welcome to the Ask An Anything segment.

01:06:35.640 This part of the show is usually for paid subscribers,

01:06:38.040 but today we're letting everyone experience what a full episode of the Culture Study podcast is like.

01:06:43.240 This part of the show is pretty self-explanatory.

01:06:45.420 Someone asks something and I answer it.

01:06:47.740 Sometimes it has something to do with the rest of the episode, and sometimes it stands alone.

01:06:52.380 Sometimes it's with the co-host, and sometimes it's with Melody.

01:06:55.120 Today's question is about something I love writing and talking about.

01:06:58.960 This one comes from Laura, and Melody is going to read it.

01:07:01.740 okay it's a little long but it's good yes what is that one friend's secret to having so many

01:07:07.460 cool hobbies and being good at so many different things a former colleague popped up in a shared

01:07:12.720 slack selling her art and it sent me into a spiral how is she so cool she always has the

01:07:18.600 perfect alternative style oh this hand-painted silk kimono i made it as an omnivorous hobbyist

01:07:25.040 knits sews farms bakes forages for natural remedies paints volunteers at the library's

01:07:31.060 high-tech makerspace, just anything she puts her mind to. To boot, she's a loving mother,

01:07:36.700 social advocate, and very thoughtful and talented at her highly technical day job. 1.00

01:07:41.700 Where do people like her find the time? Or is it not about time and just a natural talent to

01:07:46.720 acquire new skills and knowledge? Is it more confidence? I've always looked at that list of

01:07:51.580 hobbies, interests, and activities and long to be so omnivorous. Why do some people seem to have

01:07:57.500 more time or more ability to do cool things in the same time? Why am I just so damn tired after

01:08:03.880 putting my kid to bed? Why do I have to relearn the absolute basics every time I pick up knitting

01:08:09.100 needles? My house isn't clean, my dog's not trained, I made frozen pizza for dinner, didn't

01:08:14.580 stretch, and I don't have any other hobbies to show for it. What gives? Okay, so I read this

01:08:20.780 question and I immediately thought I bet that Laura has so many amazing things and that someone

01:08:27.500 could write the same post about her in some way right like maybe she doesn't like hand paint her

01:08:32.820 kimono but there's probably this feeling that she is doing a lot of really cool stuff or that she's

01:08:39.080 really great at her job and like does other things I don't whatever Laura's life is like

01:08:43.700 when you see someone's life from the outside it is very easy to understand it only as an

01:08:49.620 accumulation of all of those awesome things like this co-worker who's very cool he was like like

01:08:57.280 is really bad at a lot of stuff you just don't see it yeah no if they weren't that if they were

01:09:04.900 good it's truly everything like they're a robot right like there are things that they are very

01:09:10.480 bad at and that like there are probably things that they feel like very self-conscious about

01:09:15.660 or ashamed of or that they aspire to be more like someone else right like everyone has these things

01:09:22.240 and when you only consume someone's life through I'm not even gonna say social media just like

01:09:27.840 through glimpses of their life if you only see someone at like school pickup right if you only

01:09:36.040 hear someone on podcasts like it's just so easy to understand all of them as these awesome things

01:09:42.520 she could have foraged like one time but she posted about it and so it seems like part of

01:09:48.860 her personality right like it seems like she forages every week but really she forages like

01:09:53.500 twice a year yeah um and then i just think like the the second part of the question which is about

01:10:00.940 like i'm just so tired there is nothing wrong with feeling that tiredness laura alludes to

01:10:08.340 the fact that she has to put her kid to bed which to me suggests that her kid is pretty young right

01:10:13.000 and that is like a life draining segment of life yeah where it feels like there's not a lot extra

01:10:21.220 to give and we put this incredible pressure on ourselves to do all of the things and like also

01:10:28.780 like be stylish and like have creative verb it also sounds like her co-worker is just a creative

01:10:35.200 person I'm not a creative person like are you I feel like you're a more creative person than me

01:10:41.560 uh I don't know like my creativity is like organizing flowers where they're going to go

01:10:50.780 in like on graph paper like that's my creativity it's not it's not arts and crafts no it's not

01:10:58.100 like and I have friends like this too who I'm like oh my god they're so effortlessly cool

01:11:03.560 and they're probably like how does she run a marathon and like also work full-time you know

01:11:10.420 what I mean like there's things that about everyone else's life that seem like I don't know

01:11:14.780 how she does it that line totally the other thing that occurred to me was not just the like is this

01:11:21.980 person naturally good at learning things maybe but then you also start to kind of do the time 1.00

01:11:27.580 math of where are the hours coming from she could be one of those freaks that only needs like four 0.98

01:11:32.600 hours of sleep totally I thought about that yeah I need at least nine every night and I've just 0.98

01:11:40.620 accepted that I just don't have as many hours in the waking day yeah there was some like I don't

01:11:46.560 know some article that looked at a lot of super high achieving like CEO type people who are also

01:11:53.800 parents and we're also doing all this other stuff and they were those like those people who can get

01:11:59.040 four hours of sleep and still be incredibly high functioning yeah last night i got six hours and

01:12:04.720 47 minutes and i feel like a shell of myself like yeah it's horrible the other day i got eight and

01:12:11.800 a half and i wanted to cry all these people with kids are gonna like i was gonna say this is like

01:12:18.660 this is the top three reasons of why like i don't think i should have children is because i need too

01:12:24.080 much sleep also no mention of this uh co-workers partner like maybe the partner takes on a lot of

01:12:30.500 child care like maybe they have an actually equitable relationship that would be sick maybe

01:12:34.820 they have a nanny or they have really involved grandparents yeah you know totally i also thought

01:12:40.040 like maybe this cool co-worker is like very good at turning down things she doesn't want to do so

01:12:45.840 she's not saddled by like obligations maybe she has really good boundaries and maybe she also

01:12:51.140 doesn't feel bad saying no. Yeah, this has been my secret. So last year, I like worked myself

01:12:58.600 into burnout this year, we're recovering from that. And so I've said no to a lot of things.

01:13:04.080 And I am experiencing this huge like surge of creative energy that I am putting into learning

01:13:09.360 how to quilt as you'll hear me continue to talk about as the hyper fixation continues. But it just

01:13:15.060 feels really good because I didn't think I could feel that feeling again, when all I could do last

01:13:20.380 year was my only hobbies last year were like laying down karking yes karking you should define

01:13:26.920 what karking is uh karking is short for carcass time which comes it's a long story it comes from

01:13:33.680 a tiktok but uh when you just it's also it's related to bed rotting yeah but need to kark

01:13:39.200 yeah and i think that that actually is a skill if you think about it rest is an incredible skill

01:13:44.420 and one that we do not celebrate right like what we celebrate is this like cornucopia of creativity

01:13:52.420 that's this easy like looks amazing on social media whereas karking is harder to display yeah

01:13:59.040 and also like I would encourage Laura to think about what you probably have hobbies that you're

01:14:06.720 just not thinking about as hobbies like a couple of years ago a friend of mine who is a mom of two

01:14:12.660 she works full time, you know, volunteers, like she is this kind of person where she's just so

01:14:17.080 cool. And she reads like 150 books a year. And I was like, how do you do that? And she said,

01:14:24.420 it's my primary hobby. Yeah, I was like, Oh, I never this sounds so dumb. But I never thought 0.99

01:14:29.680 about reading as a hobby. Like reading is just something that I do. Right. But when you think

01:14:35.320 about it in terms of a hobby, that it's like, Oh, I'm reading, I'm dedicating time to my hobby,

01:14:40.800 Or, like, I firmly believe in, like, elevating the things that involve your hobby.

01:14:48.320 So, like, I have a really nice Kindle.

01:14:50.560 I have a really cool little lap bean bag to set it on.

01:14:54.040 I have a remote page turner.

01:14:57.340 I have a special pillow to hold my arm so they don't fall asleep while I'm reading.

01:15:03.920 It's elite.

01:15:04.800 It's so good.

01:15:05.920 Yeah.

01:15:06.240 So, like, whatever you're already doing, think about that and then think about how you can make it a little more luxurious.

01:15:12.760 Right.

01:15:12.980 And I think that this is something that gets discussed a lot anytime I write about hobbies.

01:15:18.020 People are like, I only recently came to understand reading as my hobby.

01:15:21.700 Yeah.

01:15:22.560 And it sometimes gets complicated because I think sometimes we think of things that we are compelled to do by outside standards.

01:15:31.680 We're like, oh, well, organizing is my hobby, right?

01:15:34.340 Like that one gives me a little bit of like, oh, or like cleaning is my hobby.

01:15:39.440 And you can take pleasure from cleaning, but I don't think that like something that has

01:15:44.000 this dual tasking as like something that you are compelled to do by outside standards.

01:15:48.140 It's just, it's complicated.

01:15:49.620 I feel that way about exercise sometimes, right?

01:15:51.620 Like when is running a hobby and when is running like body maintenance kind of thing.

01:15:58.320 That's probably why I could not continuously exercise that I just go in phases because

01:16:03.900 it just feels too much like a to-do totally totally yeah I think our advice to Laura is

01:16:10.900 to feel like great about yourself and think about how someone might look at your life

01:16:16.400 if they could really see your life right like if parts every part of your life was like beautifully

01:16:21.600 represented they'd be like wow that's awesome right like everyone's life is cool and it's just

01:16:28.660 that some of them are more aesthetically pleasing than others and that doesn't make them better or

01:16:34.080 worse totally um and also just that maybe take solace in the fact that the co-worker

01:16:38.760 doesn't have it all figured out no one does is there anything else you'd add actually i have 0.85

01:16:44.420 one more idea for laura um coming off of again personal experience is to see if there's some

01:16:51.560 kind of class of something that you want to take that's like multiple weeks so then you have like

01:16:58.080 scheduled carved out time to try something new or to improve on something you already like to do

01:17:03.120 like if you need to relearn the basics for knitting like find a knitting circle or a

01:17:08.240 knitting class where you know okay these three tuesday nights or whatever it just for me because

01:17:15.280 i always loved school like that kind of structure is just so helpful um like i did a seven week

01:17:21.560 class on mansfield park with friend of the pod margaret h willison where i just never would have

01:17:27.760 done anything like that on my own or like just took a two-week quilting class and it was delightful

01:17:33.440 and so yeah I also think that in situations where it's hard to ask for time for yourself

01:17:39.000 and I think oftentimes this is true of younger mothers like or mothers of younger children

01:17:43.820 it gives you a structure to ask someone else to cover the labor of the home during that time and

01:17:50.820 if it's a class that somebody else is facilitating it somehow like doesn't feel

01:17:54.680 optional especially if you're paying for it but you don't have to pay for it yeah but yeah all

01:18:00.680 right that's our advice yeah we're always you're doing great yeah laura we really like this

01:18:06.060 question it was beautifully written that's what you're that's one of your hobbies is writing good

01:18:09.760 questions hey your hobby is listening to the culture study podcast and contributing to it

01:18:17.200 We love it.

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01:18:38.600 how pop culture in the early 2000s shaped a generation of women.

01:18:42.280 That one's going to be very good.

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01:19:31.900 out. And if you're a paid subscriber to the podcast, head over to the discussion thread

01:19:36.440 and keep the conversation going. I want to know, this is always my question, but it's like,

01:19:42.500 what did you find out about Tate that you didn't know?

01:19:45.540 I think a lot of people are going to be surprised by just how popular she is.

01:19:49.000 Or what do you still want to know?

01:19:51.220 What are you still stymied by?

01:19:52.880 I think we can have a good conversation about that.

01:19:55.360 The Culture Study Podcast is produced by me,

01:19:57.520 Anne Helen Peterson, and Melody Raul.

01:19:59.600 Our music is by Poddington Bear.

01:20:01.020 You can find me on Instagram at Anne Helen Peterson,

01:20:04.220 Melody at Melodious47, and the show at Culture Study Pod.

01:20:12.500 Why do I have to relearn the absolute basics every time I pick up Needy Niddles? 0.98

01:20:30.900 Needy Niddles. 1.00

01:20:33.720 Needy Niddles. 1.00

01:20:35.100 Needy Niddles.

01:20:36.000 why do i have to sorry i'm really tickled okay

Culture Study Podcast - May 07, 2025

Unlocking the Allure of Tate McRae

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