Culture Study Podcast - What's Bradley Cooper's Deal？

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00:00:52.120 newsletter and just Google, like, where's the podcast? Like, you can figure it out. Or you

00:00:56.000 can email me and I'll help you figure it out personally. And then the other thing I just want

00:00:59.860 to note is if you are familiar with the culture studies style of star analysis, we are really

00:01:06.160 talking about star image analysis. We're not trying to be mean to a star. We're talking about

00:01:12.680 how a star resonates, what their image means in the broader cultural fabric. If you keep that in

00:01:19.180 mind as we move through this episode, that's how Sam and I are approaching the question of Bradley

00:01:24.600 Cooper. Okay, on with the show. When I think of Bradley Cooper, the first thing that comes to

00:01:30.460 mind is and hear me out, Tracy Flick from election. He has the same kind of try hard energy. And I

00:01:39.240 remember, I watched election when it came out several times as a young person not understanding

00:01:46.460 the trauma and tragedy behind Tracy Flick's character. Like when you first see election as

00:01:52.480 a kid you hate her yeah then you watch it as an adult and you realize she is the victim and so

00:01:58.960 if i want to be nice to bradley cooper i try to look at him that way that's so interesting i think

00:02:04.440 of him in the hangover because he's likable yeah he's like likable but also in some ways the least

00:02:12.480 interesting character in that film like yes one of the last times that he plays the straight man

00:02:17.500 in terms of humor but also just like in everything about him and melody thinks of him in alias

00:02:24.660 which i didn't watch alias because it was like that weird post-college time when no one had tv

00:02:30.420 you know like so i have this whole hole it was like a virtual signal to not watch tv

00:02:34.580 i'm not watching tv i was in eighth grade and so i was shut up and so bradley hooper as will

00:02:42.300 Tip-In was like one of the

00:02:44.340 dream boats in my life

00:02:45.780 he is a dream boat and I will

00:02:48.320 say now that I mean I totally answered the

00:02:50.240 question the wrong way you asked me what I think of him as

00:02:52.120 but I just think of him as his other character

00:02:53.900 because it's just like so much try hard energy

00:02:56.200 but if I had to think of a character that comes to mind

00:02:58.180 when I always think of just him in a movie

00:03:00.240 I think of how

00:03:01.960 he

00:03:03.680 tried so hard in

00:03:06.140 A Star Is Born to make that low

00:03:08.060 gravelly voice work

00:03:09.340 and it was annoying

00:03:11.820 and it was like Bradley you could have just talked my dude but this is the Tracy Flick of it all

00:03:17.500 yeah it's not just let me be competent or good it's like let me show you how much I can do

00:03:22.040 let me show you how much I can do and it's it's always that with him and I feel like why I loved

00:03:27.200 the hangover so much and him in the hangover so much is that he wasn't doing that yet it seemed

00:03:32.180 yeah well and we're going to talk a lot about this and the answers to the questions to come

00:03:38.080 But I think part of what makes him interesting is he is not as good as some other Method-y stars at erasing the signs of effort or at least at naturalizing it.

00:03:54.060 Because to me, Daniel Day-Lewis, I'm never like, oh, my God, that fucker's so annoying, right?

00:03:59.080 I'm just like, oh, what a guy.

00:04:01.580 Like, what an actor.

00:04:02.920 Yeah.

00:04:03.260 Well, and the thing about Daniel Day-Lewis is that he's also not trying to write, direct, star in.

00:04:10.720 Bradley Cooper wants to control all the means of production in his film work.

00:04:15.640 And that makes it harder to digest, I think.

00:04:23.180 This is the Culture Study Podcast, and I'm Anne Helen Peterson.

00:04:27.080 And I'm Sam Sanders, co-host of Vibe Check, and big fan of Anne Helen Peterson.

00:04:32.380 oh this is complete honor to have you on the podcast today i was one of the first guests

00:04:38.500 on one of sam's previous podcasts and it was like the best conversation i had for the entire

00:04:44.060 publicity cycle and i have been a massive fan ever since i remember that and it was like my

00:04:50.700 template for like good book interview for a very long time so thank you for that because i was just

00:04:55.340 a baby trying it out and i was like how do i talk about a whole book in just a half an hour

00:04:59.480 can you help me but we did it that was so long ago too gosh we're we're old pros now that was

00:05:05.680 like 2017 yeah yeah no it was oh my god yeah oh okay all right that was for too fat too slutty

00:05:14.720 too loud um okay so the title of this episode the working title of this episode is like

00:05:20.160 what is going on with bradley cooper like what is bradley cooper's deal and we kept it like so

00:05:26.960 broad because i think that there is this like complication to his image that we've grown with

00:05:36.420 right like unlike a lot of other stars each film there's something that's like complicating what i

00:05:42.700 thought i understood about him in a way that i think is pretty interesting and that i also think

00:05:49.120 that people can't get their heads around like yeah am i annoyed by him am i impressed by him

00:05:54.780 am i like whether or not i like the movie like do i see what he's trying to do here

00:06:00.020 all of these things these things happening at once and then all of the publicity stuff too

00:06:05.000 which is a whole thing yes yeah it's a lot well and it's just like i have more feelings about

00:06:11.920 bradley cooper than i feel i need to so full disclosure i tried to watch maestro three times

00:06:17.480 because i want to watch all the oscar movies i cannot get through it and i tried and listen

00:06:21.720 And there are so many things that I pick up and put down.

00:06:23.940 That is a story of my life.

00:06:25.100 That is what we do as culture critics, writers, and thinkers.

00:06:27.960 But something about the maestro of it all made me angry.

00:06:30.940 I was angry at Bradley Cooper for wasting 27 minutes of my life.

00:06:35.280 So have you tried to watch it at home, I'm guessing?

00:06:39.020 Yeah.

00:06:39.800 Okay.

00:06:40.300 It's hard.

00:06:41.300 It's hard.

00:06:41.740 This is really hard.

00:06:43.040 And I saw it in the theaters the first week it came out, in part because I knew that I

00:06:49.020 would have this same reaction if i tried to watch it at home because i would be like this fucker

00:06:55.760 like what is he trying to do here and the first 30 minutes like he's trying to do a lot like that

00:07:02.260 outside scene with the cigarette where he's talking it's he lays it on so thick no and it's

00:07:07.020 just like we get it bradley and you gotta stick with it to kind of get to this larger picture of

00:07:12.760 what he's trying to do with this film which whether it works or doesn't work side note i don't think

00:07:18.160 it ultimately works but i'm still like you did that dude yeah but i think that like this is

00:07:23.940 something this is a good metaphor maybe for how we're trying to talk about bradley cooper is that

00:07:28.920 he's trying to do something that you have to sit in your seat and like be uncomfortable

00:07:34.840 and kind of cringe for the first 30 minutes in order for you to appreciate it and then still

00:07:40.720 maybe think it doesn't work who has the time when it comes to a celebrity right yeah to have that

00:07:46.840 sort of patience i also found myself thinking about my sure reading about it not watching the

00:07:51.620 whole thing i very much was also like who is he making this movie for yeah he's not even making

00:07:57.220 this movie for the entire academy he's making it for a subset of academy voters yes and you're

00:08:03.100 allowed to do that but it's really kind of interesting to see him go from like the mass

00:08:08.880 market appeal of you know a star is born which still got him oscars and the hangover to

00:08:16.240 to not just a niche film but like an awards bait film that isn't even for the entire awards

00:08:22.880 community yeah like because most people don't necessarily like have the familiarity with the

00:08:30.140 subject matter right like i was in a theater with a lot of gray hairs and i don't mean this

00:08:35.340 in a derogatory manner just that like people who are older have a much deeper understanding of the

00:08:42.780 cultural importance of leonard bernstein than i was probably like metaphorically like a kanye

00:08:48.780 figure back in the day yeah genius you had a lot going on you want to know about him like kanye

00:08:54.140 meets lavar burton right because he was also on tv every sunday right yeah and like introducing

00:09:01.720 the the like importance of classical music to the masses yeah and and i think that like

00:09:07.700 that's part of the academy that's a big voting block in the academy like boomers in the academy

00:09:12.740 me like boomers in the united states political yeah yeah and like and like bradley knows this

00:09:18.420 he is if anything a creature of hollywood yeah and he probably has everybody on speed dial and

00:09:23.020 he knows who's voting for what who's on what committee so like yeah he made it for them

00:09:27.060 he made it for them and it's like i guess that makes me have larger questions about what he

00:09:31.320 wants the shape of his career to be um only he knows but i feel like he's on this like

00:09:37.540 proving himself to that subset track that is like keeping him from making movies

00:09:43.520 that a lot more people would love and listen we love bradley cooper when we love bradley cooper

00:09:48.680 right or making movies that feel

00:09:52.800 accessible yeah no just like that they aren't that it's not awards bait right and this is

00:10:01.940 always hard because i think like a lot of movies are awards bait that are successful in facing

00:10:06.400 their awards baitness. But let's segue into our first question because we'll get to a lot more

00:10:11.480 of this. Okay. First question comes from Jen and it's going to give us kind of the lay of the land

00:10:15.940 with some of this discourse that circulates around Bradley. Why is Bradley Cooper suddenly

00:10:20.960 someone we're supposed to be taking seriously? Why is it a snub if he isn't nominated for every

00:10:27.080 award ever? Why would a woman in her 20s who has her own stuff going on want to date him?

00:10:31.640 why do i dislike him so much and is it related at all to why i also dislike ben affleck okay

00:10:39.540 i know there's a lot going on there where do you want to start with that i guess the awards

00:10:44.820 baitiness of it like yeah i think we forget how awards focused bradley cooper is because we

00:10:51.600 like on top of being a big oscar contender and oscar winner a star is born was a blockbuster

00:10:58.120 right yeah so he he did two things at once he made an awards bait movie and he also made a

00:11:03.800 blockbuster hard to do hats off to him for that but he's been chasing that glory you know for

00:11:09.380 years even american sniper which was a blockbuster that got him an oscar nomination right yeah he

00:11:14.200 kind of wanted that knew that going in yeah i think what the difference is between now and those

00:11:19.240 films is that they were able to be hits that were also awards bait um maestro truth be told

00:11:27.960 is actually neither because in spite of those oscar nominations i don't think it wins any

00:11:32.400 i don't think it wins any no and and i think the tide really turned on the film for various reasons

00:11:38.600 and we can talk about how much of his like eagerness to be in this conversation is a part

00:11:45.100 of that but you know it kind of reminds me of like when i was in elementary school i did the

00:11:51.380 science fair because i was a big nerd i want to see where this goes i'm loving this there was

00:11:55.800 there was this guy whose dad knew exactly what sort of project to do to get to win the awards

00:12:05.140 right and in fifth grade i beat him because his science fair project was such a like clear

00:12:14.420 dad helped me figure out how to game these awards exactly exactly it was about like

00:12:19.340 liquid absorption using diapers um can't i have not thought about this in a long time but it still

00:12:26.360 haunts you when when you are trying so hard to win something or only understand validation

00:12:34.320 through awards like this tracy flick right and there are reasons like what has it what

00:12:42.680 not to psychoanalyze bradley cooper when we're trying to analyze his image but there is something

00:12:48.720 interesting that happens when you can only feel like you are validated in the work that you do

00:12:53.420 when it is recognized through awards that we understand have all of these problems with them

00:12:59.520 right yeah yeah yeah they really do and it's like I also think the version of Hollywood

00:13:05.800 leading man that Bradley Cooper is trying to do we're culturally less prepared to want and accept

00:13:12.580 that he wants to be not just the hot star but the writer and director and the creator and the person

00:13:21.220 in charge of everything he wants to control it all and when i think of like the kind of hot guys

00:13:27.520 or alpha males that we culturally want right now it's travis kelsey right we want fun dudes along

00:13:34.980 for the ride right this kind of intense dude who controls everything is that truly the vibe right

00:13:40.200 now is it is that the vibe right now right you know what do we want our our big cute men to be

00:13:46.980 yeah like and it's interesting right that travis kelsey is not the quarterback i think about this

00:13:52.500 a lot right yes and he isn't even the alpha of the relationship taylor's the boss and he knows it

00:13:59.740 and travis shows up looking cute with that mustache and you're like okay okay so i think

00:14:06.680 about Bradley Cooper's antecedents in Hollywood in terms of leading men who have turned director

00:14:12.140 and producer right yeah and the ones that immediately come to mind are Clint Eastwood

00:14:17.140 who directed him in American Sniper right and Kevin Costner who is a certified asshole everyone

00:14:24.660 knows right and Mel Gibson also also a certified asshole yeah Clint Eastwood like I think he is

00:14:35.140 an asshole he's beloved in hollywood for many reasons but he's an asshole but and like here's

00:14:39.540 the thing but just like hearing you name those names what distinguishes those guys from bradley

00:14:44.120 cooper is like they kind of at some point just leaned into kind of being assholes and that was

00:14:47.980 what it was bradley cooper still wants to be seen as a universal nice guy while also being the auteur

00:14:52.700 in charge of everything and that is a hard needle to thread i think he's chosen really interesting

00:14:57.580 roles i think like oh yeah objectively he has chosen an interesting trajectory but again part

00:15:04.360 of it like if i'm looking at it as image analysis he's working so hard to texture his image in all

00:15:11.680 of these ways that like it almost like that also reads as try hard to me similar yeah actually you

00:15:17.220 know who i forgot to mention in that list of people who are also trying to be directors and

00:15:21.100 stars is ben affleck oh yeah who is included in this question yes but i personally like ben

00:15:30.020 affleck more because i feel like ben affleck has leaned into the darkness and he lets us in

00:15:35.280 he lets us in like in this roundabout way we actually know a lot about his life

00:15:39.080 yes and we know about the j-lo stuff we know about jennifer garner we know about

00:15:44.200 anna de armis and the dunkin donuts runs and how it was problematic we've seen that back tattoo

00:15:49.680 and actually i was reading an old profile of bradley cooper written around the time a star

00:15:56.120 is born came out it was in the times magazine by taffy brought us her actor who's my favorite

00:16:00.320 profile writer of all time yes and the whole article is about how he would give her nothing

00:16:04.020 yes at a certain point you're supposed to talk a little bit about your personal life

00:16:07.880 your upbringing what made you you and what made you want to make this role this way

00:16:12.460 he doesn't do that and so i think we also expect if we're going to have an auteur figure

00:16:18.360 that does it all and is a quote-unquote maestro we also expect especially in this age for you to

00:16:25.020 give us some bit of detail around your personal life to show us what made you that yeah and

00:16:30.220 bradley cooper never takes that bait you know he's sober i would love one good interview

00:16:35.940 about sobriety and how it related to particularly a star is born yeah never does it never does it

00:16:42.940 i would love in the press run for maestro which is all about a romantic relationship

00:16:47.720 to talk about even obliquely how his relationships informed this role in this movie he doesn't do it

00:16:54.040 he doesn't do it right instead he lets a lot of people do a lot of speculation by speculation

00:17:00.020 and he knows what we speculate we spec listen i'm a gay in la all we do is talk about who's gay or

00:17:06.320 not and he's one of those question marks and i'm gonna leave it there because it's not my job to

00:17:10.620 speculate but i'm just saying offline people speculate yeah and he is not you know i think

00:17:17.500 he's talked a little bit about the sober stuff but he only does it on podcasts oh so you know

00:17:23.140 So he was roommates with Will Arnett in his early 20s.

00:17:27.440 Oh, that sounds like trouble.

00:17:29.540 But that's when they got sober, at least is my understanding.

00:17:32.880 Okay.

00:17:33.240 And there's a little bit of that intimacy there.

00:17:35.580 And I think that this is actually a very concerted reaction to the prickliness that he displayed in A Star is Born.

00:17:44.300 And it was prickly.

00:17:45.660 Right?

00:17:45.980 It was prickly.

00:17:47.160 Or at least the press cycle for A Star is Born.

00:17:48.900 So I think that what's happening here and this kind of this goes back to our question of why is it easy to dislike him or why do I feel the way that I do about him is to me this is a calculated overcompensation.

00:18:02.580 You know, so he has like because he couldn't do any press because of the SAG strike.

00:18:08.740 Oh, yeah.

00:18:09.480 He did like, you know, this Philly cheesesteak thing.

00:18:13.160 He opened up a Philly cheesesteak cart for one day and like Gigi Hadid showed up.

00:18:18.420 i think i think with like because all she does in her free time is to eat philly cheesesteaks you

00:18:22.420 know and like pretended to take a bite and and he's you know he showed up at these awards shows

00:18:29.400 like ali jones has this great issue of her her um sub stack that's all about how he's using all of

00:18:35.960 these women in his life to like wield this idea of like i'm a caring guy so it's not just like oh

00:18:40.920 i have a 20 year old girlfriend it's also i'm showing up here with my daughter and here's my

00:18:46.160 mom who's coming to the award show even though i go to the after party with either someone else

00:18:50.760 and you know he he used to be someone who would insist that pictures of his daughter would be

00:18:55.320 blurred in every single like paparazzi anything and now that he's doing the award circuit he now

00:19:02.600 you see the kid oh my god you see what i mean like it just like it feels like this is a thing

00:19:10.880 It's like hearing you talk about him and how he's obviously very gifted, but very calculated.

00:19:17.120 I compare him to my, at the moment, favorite creative auteur maestro.

00:19:23.080 It's Michaela Cole.

00:19:24.380 Michaela Cole, who made Chewing Gum, who made I May Destroy You.

00:19:28.460 And she writes these things, directs these things, and stars in them, right?

00:19:31.680 So she's doing what Bradley is doing.

00:19:33.180 but the thing about Michaela Cole is when you interview her you realize she's not someone who

00:19:40.620 calculates at all she just feels the work and makes it she has an idea she goes off to the

00:19:45.220 woods for months and writes it and it's tortured and it's hard and it's like it's there and then

00:19:49.660 she comes out in the world and she's like what press do I have to do before I go back into my

00:19:53.540 cave yeah she's very honest about it and she talks about being nervous and not liking it and just

00:19:57.820 making the art she's talked about having to leave agents before because they didn't get her and she

00:20:02.220 talks about like the struggle of it and her anxiety around the struggle of it and it makes

00:20:07.260 it so much more personal and it makes it so much more relatable and bradley never does that he just

00:20:13.340 does the calculation i'm not gonna say robotically but so method he does the things you're supposed

00:20:20.980 to do so well and then never talks about it which makes it even weirder yeah and i think that that

00:20:26.720 speaks to what we want from this new generation of stars right because tom cruise is a publicity

00:20:33.000 robot like he knows exactly how to play this game and no one's like hey tom could you stop being a

00:20:39.680 robot yeah that's very tom cruise of him but with someone of this generation of stars there's a real

00:20:46.840 expectation that like okay if you hate publicity we get it yeah that's your thing talk about it a

00:20:52.440 little bit talk about why you hate it exactly and here's how I feel why I feel he doesn't do that

00:20:57.540 yeah instead we get interviews like the one he did with Taffy where he's like I don't see any

00:21:02.240 upside to telling you anything about my personal life right which just also I don't see any upside

00:21:08.320 to not giving Taffy what she wants come on have you read her right now what he's doing is he's

00:21:14.980 like using images to kind of tell his story which works for someone like Angelina Jolie but she

00:21:20.900 knows that periodically she has to like do a bombshell interview with vanity fair to balance

00:21:27.040 it out and she will and she's very good at that when she needs to be exactly yeah so this next

00:21:31.300 question is a little more charitable to bradley cooper it comes from melissa and melody's gonna

00:21:36.220 read it why is everyone so mad at bradley cooper anyway everything i've read about him is that he's

00:21:42.100 very kind and will shepherd anyone through their attempts at sobriety feels like we're being unfair

00:21:47.060 to him okay all right so this is i think whether we're talking about bradley cooper or any star

00:21:52.940 sometimes i think this gets to like the heart of difficulty and having a conversation about

00:21:58.500 a star because i am also sure that bradley cooper is a pretty kind person in his personal life

00:22:04.300 right um and we're talking more about the affect of his image totally well okay so like i think

00:22:12.340 about you remember when jennifer lawrence was like in her oscar season yeah she won like did

00:22:18.260 she get one or more than one she was up for a few yeah there was several liners playbook she

00:22:23.120 had a run yeah right and i remember for like a year or two on at least one or two red carpets

00:22:29.740 every season she would trip yeah she would just trip yes and it was funny and it was like a prat

00:22:34.800 fall and it was always like oh my god i'm so clumsy but you know what i think i think it was

00:22:39.320 on purpose because jennifer lawrence knows that when we see someone that good at what they do

00:22:46.740 and that pretty and that charming and that charismatic we need something about them to

00:22:51.820 not be perfect right something and i don't think bradley cooper understands that yeah i don't think

00:22:59.020 he understands it and i don't think he performs clumsy enough in public for us to be like oh

00:23:03.820 shucks he might be just like us well so here's the interesting thing and where sobriety comes

00:23:07.520 in here because i think that actually sobriety can be a way that starts yeah that it really

00:23:12.680 humanizes and and emphasizes like the fact that like they have vulnerabilities like all the rest

00:23:18.140 of us yeah and and you know we mentioned previously that he talks about it a little bit in podcasts but

00:23:23.300 it's almost like he's at that point in sobriety where he's been sober for so long

00:23:27.720 that it's not he doesn't even talk about anymore yeah or that like it's not as raw

00:23:31.980 and like exactly i mean exactly everyone should be able to be wherever they are in their sober

00:23:36.600 journey he doesn't owe us that story he doesn't owe it to us right yeah so it just doesn't work

00:23:41.580 quite the way that it maybe would i think in and and also we the other key thing is that

00:23:50.260 he did not get sober in the public eye right so it doesn't work the same way as say robert

00:23:55.580 downey jr's trajectory or even like a singer like sia who i interviewed her years ago and all she

00:24:02.900 wanted to talk about was alcoholics anonymous then you realize one of the biggest hits of her

00:24:06.840 career chandelier is all about over drinking and she talks about it you know like we are we are

00:24:12.420 primed to accept celebrity like that especially when there's this whole cottage industry now of

00:24:16.700 celebrities who want to talk to you about how they're always doing the work yeah it's like

00:24:21.020 that's all celebrity podcast hearing them talk about the work yes and bradley cooper is not a

00:24:25.980 part of that system yeah that would be an interesting thing to listen to those podcasts

00:24:30.220 that he's done with like someone that he knows as well as will arnett but yeah he's not in the like

00:24:36.240 i do think that there is this expectation of celebrities now that they do like

00:24:40.580 mark maron dax shepard right oh yeah and even dax shepard now has like an alcoholics anonymous

00:24:46.280 segment on his show right seriously yeah where they talk about sober stuff yeah like it's a

00:24:50.920 whole thing yeah so what about this idea that we're being unfair to him what do you think about

00:24:55.380 that we are but you know what buddy you're rich and famous and have awards i don't know it's like

00:25:01.320 celebrities to get famous and then get mad because they're famous you chose this right and so it's

00:25:06.280 like if we start to like bradley cooper is not in danger of physical harm bradley cooper is not

00:25:13.000 experiencing horrible harassment online because of who he is and his sexuality or his whatever

00:25:18.940 bradley cooper is fine you know like bradley cooper is actually fine um bradley cooper's

00:25:23.740 biggest problem is that he's not going to get another

00:25:25.820 Oscar this year. That's his biggest

00:25:27.820 problem. So

00:25:28.980 I don't try to beat myself up over feeling

00:25:31.760 weird about Bradley Cooper. I really don't.

00:25:33.900 Well, and here's the thing. He's not going to

00:25:35.760 have the Oscar curse where you get nominated

00:25:37.680 and maybe you win the award and then you

00:25:39.680 never get offered another role in Hollywood.

00:25:41.780 He'll always have good roles and good work.

00:25:43.500 The thing that happens to so many women,

00:25:45.980 particularly women of color, who

00:25:47.740 win Oscars in Hollywood or who are nominated.

00:25:50.540 Halle Berry's career got worse

00:25:51.940 after the oscar right i still can't believe that i still can't believe that swordfish remember that

00:26:00.160 yes jesus christ she's topless in it it's very it's like a very important i think to many

00:26:06.140 men in my life was this image of valley berry topless in it but yes that was not her career

00:26:11.540 getting more textured and interesting after her oscar uh i also wondered with bradley in

00:26:17.460 thinking of things that could humanize him does he play villains has he ever played a villain

00:26:24.120 right well i think this is his thing is he's like i play complicated men who are you know

00:26:30.320 who are complicated villain go ahead finish your thought sorry yeah like because i think like his

00:26:35.640 character is is his character and a star is born a villain is his character and maestro a villain

00:26:42.000 like you could read it that way in a certain capacity right but does he think they're villains

00:26:47.980 no there you go no really good point uh i was just like you know glossing over his uh

00:26:57.440 his history like he produced the joker isn't that weird oh wow the heath ledge oh the the

00:27:05.240 the what's his face joaquin phoenix so maybe he's like i'll produce a movie with a villain but i

00:27:11.760 wouldn't play the incel starter kit movie yes i mean speaking of another so joaquin phoenix is a

00:27:18.980 great example of a star who like doesn't care if anyone thinks he's an asshole yeah and we all just

00:27:24.040 think he's an asshole right it's just like here i am i i make the movies i want to make like this

00:27:28.600 is what i do and here's the thing like would we actually enjoy bradley cooper if he just went

00:27:32.740 full villain full asshole like as uh as a hypothetical right if he just became joaquin

00:27:38.900 phoenix if he just became a dick and just still kept making stuff that was like good in some

00:27:43.300 respect would i be more okay with him i don't know right i think you would uh you know i think

00:27:50.060 he would be less interesting to me or the other thing that he could do is become one of these

00:27:54.640 method actors who really resist publicity in every capacity right um and i think that that is

00:28:00.860 probably that's what he wants right because i think that he thinks that publicity is feminizing

00:28:07.480 in some capacity but i don't think he would ever do it because he craves the academy's approval so

00:28:13.800 much and the academy calls upon you to be essentially a mouthpiece for the entire you

00:28:19.940 know the all of hollywood and if you are resisting publicity and we know this from no bueno yet many

00:28:25.780 past oscar runs eddie murphy lost his oscar because he wouldn't do press right monique same thing

00:28:32.140 right like um yeah did she she didn't lose the oscar it's just that she didn't get roles right

00:28:36.640 she didn't get any work after that yeah and then she went on this kind of tear and now she's getting

00:28:40.980 even less work yeah but yeah like you have to be willing you have to be a willing player in the

00:28:46.220 game on the team yeah you have to and he is trying to do that but you can tell that he kind of hates

00:28:51.960 himself for his own eagerness to do this i want to ask you a follow-up on what you said yeah you

00:28:59.100 mentioned that you think bradley cooper finds press feminizing yeah and that makes me want to

00:29:04.720 ask you what your theory might be of what bradley cooper thinks of the idea of masculine and feminine

00:29:11.760 in his work and his persona i'm intrigued i'm intrigued i it's so complicated right because

00:29:18.500 i think that he wants he has long wanted to deconstruct masculinity right yes because i

00:29:25.800 think and a certain kind of white masculinity like he's like when i see the work he's doing

00:29:30.120 in a star is born he's tearing down or inspecting a certain type of white rocker white musician

00:29:38.260 white star yes and i get it and i'm like all right you could have deconstructed more but

00:29:43.780 you kind of started right well and i know you haven't finished maestro yet but

00:29:47.620 one of will i ever one of the many arguments of the film is the way that one person's genius

00:29:57.180 eclipses everyone else's around him and he thinks that this film is a tribute to

00:30:06.080 carrie mulligan's character who's leonard bernstein's wife it's not like he's trying

00:30:12.320 it seems like it's all about him right it is it is but he there are certain shots that he does

00:30:17.400 it's not a spoiler like the ending shot of the film it's all about her like it's he thinks that

00:30:23.160 it's supposed to be about like here are the wages of all encompassing specifically like masculine

00:30:31.920 genius but it's not like the critique isn't fully launched the critique isn't as good as he thinks

00:30:39.320 it no no not at all but i think and what if what if hypothetical what if a better critique of that

00:30:44.780 kind of masculinity would have been a film directed by a woman right with him starring in it there you

00:30:50.480 go this is the thing also about bradley cooper that annoys us i think as good as he is at being

00:30:56.380 the jack of all trades writing directing starring in he could make even better work if he collaborated

00:31:01.520 his work might be better if he collaborated yes and this is such a good segue to the next question

00:31:06.780 which is referencing the ali jones sub stack gossip time that i mentioned earlier before so

00:31:13.300 this comes from mackenzie this is a broad question but on ali jones sub stack gossip time she had a

00:31:21.780 good piece on bradley cooper's oscar women and how he uses the women in his life to further his

00:31:27.620 career goals so broadly i guess my question is what do women get out of bradley cooper and i

00:31:37.060 will acknowledge that b coops has never done it for me personally okay uh listen i one he's fun

00:31:45.400 to look at that's what we get i'm not a woman but i'm a gay and i'm gonna tell you i like to look at

00:31:49.900 that man i sure do and yeah that he was named sexiest man alive in 2011 who isn't but anyways

00:31:59.680 at this point who has not been named people's sexist man joe biden sexist man alive 2024

00:32:07.940 you know there was a point when he was the vice president that i would not oh he was hot back in

00:32:13.860 the signature days yeah yeah yeah so i don't see him as a sex symbol do you i'm gonna tell you what

00:32:20.840 i see him as i see him as a pretty doll but i feel like he's one of those people where you're like

00:32:26.420 gosh you're gorgeous yeah but then you're like would we enjoy our time together ah would you be

00:32:33.340 a fully embodied human being right around me because that's romantic so here's the thing that

00:32:39.860 i sometimes forget about bradley cooper is that he grew up in philly he went to villanova for a

00:32:46.880 year and then he finished at georgetown and then he went and got an mfa right away uh i think like

00:32:53.600 pretty close and he went to the actor studio in new york so he has this past as someone who is

00:33:00.580 like like i actually think and i don't necessarily think this is true of all stars in hollywood i

00:33:06.040 think that you would have an interesting conversation with him about things that

00:33:09.360 have nothing to do with hollywood right like i think that he is interested in the world around

00:33:15.620 him yeah has learned how to speak multiple languages he does he speaks he speaks french

00:33:21.060 he studied abroad and excellent provence like he is an interesting person in that capacity like has

00:33:25.640 has challenged himself in different ways and like the thing i always want to be careful because i

00:33:29.760 don't think that he is necessarily smarter than other stars in hollywood because i don't think

00:33:34.440 going to college necessarily makes you smart but i do think it makes you like you just learn how to

00:33:39.400 think about the world around you that's part of what college does exactly but i do think that it

00:33:44.760 gave him some of this like seriousness that like that's part of what we're railing against is like

00:33:51.960 well and yeah it's like he's like mfa dude right like he told us and he's like a student of the

00:33:57.240 craft in a way that you find a little tedious sometimes there's all these old clips of him

00:34:01.140 apparently back in the day this amazing interview show called inside the actor's studio oh yeah

00:34:05.840 hosted by james lipton where he just interviewed stars um they would let students ask questions

00:34:11.880 sometimes on these shows

00:34:14.300 Bradley Cooper was one of

00:34:16.320 the most frequent student question

00:34:18.180 askers on Inside the Actor's Studio

00:34:20.280 so there's video of young Bradley Cooper

00:34:22.480 asking James Lipton and these stars

00:34:24.360 craft questions

00:34:25.700 and you know he's so intensely into

00:34:28.260 craft and it's like

00:34:29.440 even that it might

00:34:32.300 have been earnest but it can easily

00:34:34.140 feel try hard

00:34:35.240 no one loves the person

00:34:38.340 who always asks all the questions in class

00:34:40.260 no and all the craft questions too right yeah like melody just put in the chat that he would

00:34:47.460 never be on a bulletin board in times square and like calvin klein underwear hell no and i think

00:34:54.360 even though he could this is part of the interesting thing about like publicity or

00:35:01.200 uh the way that he has engaged in like different brand partnerships and that sort of thing like he

00:35:09.220 was in a um super bowl commercial with his mom oh you know like that's that's what he is willing

00:35:15.700 to do like that's the sort of sellout he's willing to do but he doesn't want to be a sex symbol and

00:35:20.640 this gets us back to this question of like what what do women get from bradley cooper and yeah

00:35:27.760 what do you think i as as not a woman you're gonna have to answer this one i mean i think that it's

00:35:33.700 never a difficult question to understand what people want out of proximity

00:35:37.240 from fame.

00:35:38.420 That's not hard.

00:35:39.820 Yeah.

00:35:40.340 Um,

00:35:40.580 and like his daughter,

00:35:41.920 she doesn't have any agency in this and like deciding whether or not she

00:35:45.520 gets to be on the red carpet with him or not.

00:35:47.240 And she just wants to be in her dad.

00:35:49.460 But it is interesting that he hasn't had any relationships with like super

00:35:54.440 prominent stars,

00:35:55.560 right?

00:35:56.400 Like anytime,

00:35:57.820 they can't be a bigger star than him.

00:35:59.300 Yeah.

00:35:59.740 And it reminds me of Leo actually.

00:36:02.240 Right.

00:36:02.540 Oh yeah.

00:36:03.140 he gets older they stay young and dating models who don't talk that much right

00:36:09.320 like no one's image is in danger like even like Gigi Hadid like she's she's a famous person but

00:36:18.560 she's not like a person who's she's not trying to be serious in the way that he is being serious

00:36:23.260 yes yeah but then that complicates things right because if he wants to only be associated with

00:36:29.500 serious things then why doesn't he have like a relationship with other serious serious people

00:36:35.160 i don't know but then it's like but but then you lose control like at that point your creation of

00:36:40.900 self has to be a group project right i don't think he wants that no i think of jay-z and beyonce right

00:36:46.300 the most powerful power couple in the industry and at this point in their careers both of their

00:36:52.360 careers revolve around each other they revolve around each other right they've made albums about

00:36:57.340 the relationship and response albums to it you know jay-z wins a grammy and he goes on stage and

00:37:02.640 gives a speech about his wife you know like yep they have to find a way to not just be a husband

00:37:08.820 and wife duo but have their art cater to the relationship in some way i don't think bradley

00:37:14.700 cooper would ever want to do that or share that kind of intellectual space with anybody else

00:37:18.760 well and this is what's interesting about the evolving relationship of taylor swift and travis

00:37:23.440 kelsey is like yeah by entering into a relationship with taylor swift you are acknowledging that you

00:37:28.820 are part of a group project right like that you might be on an album at some point right and that's

00:37:34.000 what her boyfriend joe like never wanted to be part of that group project exactly capacity exactly

00:37:39.000 uh and i think the example actually of beyonce and jay-z is such a such a good one because

00:37:44.640 they they have to be collaborative with one another like they are in this space where like

00:37:50.380 and they have to support one another and and understand that like another person's success is

00:37:55.200 not your failure yeah yeah well and like when you hear about how they actually work behind the

00:38:01.240 scenes it's kind of remarkable folks who i've talked to in the know are like oh well you know

00:38:06.580 it's like they collaborate so much musically that if you listen to the way she rap sings on an album

00:38:13.080 like renaissance yes you hear jay-z you hear jay-z and i don't mind it right but like they have

00:38:19.780 they do this wonderful bit of his osmosis the word yeah like they feed off of each other

00:38:25.920 not just in a business sense but like creatively yeah and i don't always love it but i find it

00:38:31.660 quite interesting yeah and i don't know that bradley cooper would ever want a relationship

00:38:35.820 that has that kind of exchange well and this is why i think he loved like play acting the sexual

00:38:43.860 tension with lady gaga but would never actually be in a relationship with her right yeah yeah

00:38:50.740 also fun fact because i reread taffy's profile of bradley ahead of the uh taping today the scene

00:38:57.900 in the film where they're in the fight while she's in the bathtub and he calls her ugly

00:39:01.640 yeah that was not scripted that was off the dome from bradley oh my god

00:39:07.320 what anywho sorry just had to share okay so our last question is about what we started the

00:39:17.940 conversation with with the discussion of tracy flick it's this two-parter and it's about try

00:39:22.260 hardness so first up is stephanie bradley cooper seems to be very keen on being involved with

00:39:28.480 quote-unquote oscar-friendly movies such as stars born in 2018 and now maestro is he trying too hard

00:39:35.860 to win an Oscar, and do you think he'll win one this year for Maestro? And then the second one

00:39:40.580 is from Allison. I'm not a very, very online person, so I don't know if this is a common

00:39:46.240 opinion on Bradley Cooper, but I feel like he is a very good example of the gender differences

00:39:52.300 in the public's reception of quote-unquote try-hards. There's something about the way

00:39:57.920 he presents himself that reminds me a lot of Anne Hathaway, but the way she was received in the 2010s

00:40:04.240 and the way he's received now diverge really strongly.

00:40:08.140 Okay, so going back to the Tracy flick of all of this,

00:40:12.780 what traits in a celebrity make them seem like a try-hard?

00:40:20.000 A personality that seems too fixed.

00:40:23.320 Like you're too stiff, you're too much of one thing,

00:40:25.760 we don't see a range of emotion

00:40:27.060 that reminds us of ourselves and folks that we love.

00:40:29.780 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:40:31.160 An inability to laugh at yourself.

00:40:34.240 yep and an inability to share parts of you or self that make you seem vulnerable and like this

00:40:41.180 idea that like the only thing that matters is is winning yeah all of those are absolutely correct

00:40:46.120 i would say the last one that is i think pretty unfair is theater kidness yeah i remember when i

00:40:55.300 was writing about anne hathaway in like the you know the early 2010s and my opinion of her actually

00:41:00.980 shifted pretty profoundly because i used to find myself incredibly annoyed by her and then

00:41:05.640 kind of turned around on her yeah she never annoyed me because as a as a closeted band

00:41:13.140 nerd in high school yeah yeah you know who saved me all the time the theater kids

00:41:18.560 ann hathaway was my bestie ann hathaway was there for me ann hathaway took me to prom okay like

00:41:25.920 well that's what i'm saying is that like i had a lot of theater kids who said to me

00:41:31.360 like this is genuinely she's excited she's emoting like this is not well even her oscar

00:41:37.920 speech she was like i had this dream and it worked out and i'm like yeah girl you can say

00:41:41.940 that folks were mad that she said that folks were mad that she said that doesn't everybody

00:41:46.080 who goes to hollywood to be a star have that as their fucking dream right and we're mad at her

00:41:50.860 for that sorry i just uh stan hathaway i stand her no matter what so i have like really tried to

00:41:57.920 especially because i think that that the the perception of anne hathaway at that time

00:42:03.300 was so framed in contrast to jennifer lawrence's cool girl performance right so i'm trying not

00:42:11.580 even cool girl like clumsy girl right right like oh i don't even care about the oscar like i eat

00:42:15.680 pizza right like i'm surprised you didn't like take a piece of pizza and like slam it against

00:42:20.940 her like oscar gown and be like oh i did that yeah um yeah even her on hot ones now this oscar

00:42:27.660 season it's like yeah you're doing that and listen it's fun but like she has a she has a shtick yeah

00:42:33.060 and so i'm wary and i i heed this person's like weariness too that like maybe some of what we're

00:42:42.040 reacting to is just like him wanting to win an oscar and i also think yeah he wants to be esteemed

00:42:51.620 he wants to be rewarded and esteemed by his peers and i understand that desire and i think like part

00:43:00.380 of our discomfort with it is that it seems almost unbecoming for a man to want it that much especially

00:43:09.000 now we might have been able to abide this kind of dude 20 years ago yeah but not now baby we want

00:43:16.080 we want our men soft or softer yeah you know or like give us some some more vulnerability some

00:43:22.000 more softness or like would we be less weird about bradley cooper and all of this if he

00:43:27.580 were just directing or just starring and not doing all of the things right like what i found

00:43:33.580 annoying as a former musician who heard all about the conducting he practiced for years

00:43:38.660 to conduct i've talked to actual conductors and they're like yeah girl he didn't need to do all

00:43:43.580 that truly you didn't need to do all that right and it's like if if if he just pulled back the

00:43:50.180 try hard on every level do we like him more because like when you compare him to anne hathaway

00:43:54.240 you feel that same try hard energy but like she was just acting in a supporting role

00:43:59.720 yeah this dude is doing everything he's controlling all the means of production as i said earlier and

00:44:05.100 It's just weird.

00:44:06.200 Well, and I think this maybe, for me at least,

00:44:08.600 explains why I have so much more softness in my heart for Ben Affleck.

00:44:14.020 When Ben Affleck returned to directing, returned to Hollywood,

00:44:17.880 the beginning of his redemption arc was with Gone Baby Gone,

00:44:22.560 a movie that he does not appear in.

00:44:24.600 There you go.

00:44:25.580 There you go.

00:44:26.280 He de-centered himself from the narrative, and I think wisely understood.

00:44:30.820 Has Bradley Cooper ever de-centered himself from any editorial creative narrative?

00:44:35.900 And I think the other thing, you know, feeding on what we were just talking about, Ben Affleck is in a creative collaboration with J-Lo.

00:44:45.600 Like, it's a very different creative collaboration.

00:44:48.260 And some of it's over, like, Dunkin' Donuts commercials.

00:44:51.780 Yeah, but it's a collaboration.

00:44:53.600 Yeah, and, like, I love that he hates being famous and she loves being famous.

00:44:58.780 like it is so adorable it's fun to watch it's fun to watch and they understand that about themselves

00:45:05.780 too they know the game they know the game and they play the game bradley cooper knows the game and

00:45:10.460 pretends that he doesn't want to play the game but it's like you know the game and you know what you

00:45:13.740 want yeah it's weird i will say also just thinking about anne hathaway because i always do and check

00:45:19.620 me on this theory i have but a lot of what humanized her to people after the whole she's too

00:45:24.160 much of a try hard uh was her getting divorced and there was this moment post-divorce where it

00:45:29.180 seemed like she was in metamorphosis and all of a sudden it was like slay mama it was really weird

00:45:34.200 but now we love her right and she did a bunch of roles that are weird or interesting or like i

00:45:41.820 don't know she just like she was doing stuff that wasn't what was the one that was really hard to

00:45:46.340 watch rachel getting married oh my god yes good god which people love and i can like i have to

00:45:52.200 sit on my hands the entire time yes yes so much it's rough but i think what i if we were bradley's

00:46:02.020 publicist if i would advise i think he has a lot of softness in there and again like this is one

00:46:09.080 of those difficult things where it's like just stars os confessionals but i think like there

00:46:14.060 is it doesn't have to be like pour your guts out that sort of vulnerability just like lean into

00:46:19.980 that softness the same way that he's leaned into different performances like go for that yeah also

00:46:25.500 stars don't owe us anything but we also don't owe them our love and support true so you know what it

00:46:31.880 takes to get folks to like you if you want us to like you more than do it i mean this is the thing

00:46:36.520 like yeah it is an exchange and someone who understands this exchange perfectly is taylor

00:46:41.660 swift she knows that she doesn't have to do anything besides make the music but if she wants

00:46:46.900 that level of devotion from fans she gives them the things she gives them the crumbs she gives

00:46:51.720 them the relationship stuff she gives them the numerology about everything she's doing she plays

00:46:55.340 the game with her audience and she knows that like it's an exchange and bradley does this thing where

00:47:02.220 he never wants to buy into the exchange bradley cooper's like i want an a plus on the group

00:47:06.460 project but also i don't want anyone else in my group and i don't want to do that that whole i

00:47:11.300 And I want to go to the meetings and I want to do the thing.

00:47:13.360 Exactly.

00:47:14.060 Exactly.

00:47:15.120 Yeah.

00:47:15.740 Like Taylor understands that like the work is never just the work.

00:47:21.180 Yeah.

00:47:21.760 It's about performance of self.

00:47:23.560 It's about relationality to your fans and the media.

00:47:28.580 And Bradley's like, well, I should just be so good at what I do that y'all just all give me all the awards and are always watching me anyway.

00:47:33.700 And, you know, and if he wants a different path forward, there are those like he could just direct.

00:47:40.180 Right.

00:47:40.680 He could just direct.

00:47:41.780 He could just direct.

00:47:43.180 You know who just makes his movies?

00:47:44.460 Who directed Poor Things, which I thought is the best film of the year?

00:47:47.300 Georgos Lanthimos.

00:47:48.120 Yes, so good.

00:47:49.200 He just makes his little movies.

00:47:51.060 He just makes his little movies, and he lets Emma Stone shine, which he should, you know?

00:47:56.740 But I love that movie, and I keep thinking about him and his career because I've been

00:48:00.500 obsessed with Poor Things, and now I'm obsessed with him and his work, and he literally just

00:48:03.940 goes into his cave and makes his little things.

00:48:05.800 Yeah, and persuades really incredible actors.

00:48:10.540 some of whom could have had careers similar to Bradley Cooper's.

00:48:14.320 Like I'm thinking of Colin Farrell.

00:48:16.900 Yeah.

00:48:17.780 Wow.

00:48:18.320 What a different career he was destined for and then chose an incredible

00:48:22.640 right turn.

00:48:24.140 And now I love him.

00:48:26.360 Like I will watch him in anything.

00:48:34.800 All right.

00:48:35.580 For our last question,

00:48:36.740 it's time for ask and anything,

00:48:38.880 Sam,

00:48:39.680 Can you stick around for just one more?

00:48:42.060 Of course.

00:48:43.240 Now, if you, as a listener, need advice or just want to do a little Q&A, you can ask anything.

00:48:49.720 These can be very serious, very not serious.

00:48:51.900 Everything is fair game.

00:48:53.220 Normally, this segment is just for paid subscribers.

00:48:55.440 So if you like what you hear, head to theculturestudypod.substack.com to become a subscriber so you never have to miss out on this part of the show.

00:49:03.960 And so that you know that you're paying for stuff that you like to consume.

00:49:07.300 Okay, today's question comes from Ruthie.

00:49:10.400 I'm a 38-year-old woman with real-world issues, problems, and life to navigate,

00:49:14.760 so the escape of celebrity culture is amazing.

00:49:18.220 Why do I feel so guilty and judged when my knowledge of celebrity gossip comes up?

00:49:23.660 Honestly, I can't buy a copy of Us Weekly without blurting out,

00:49:26.940 I love reading trash like this, or feeling pissed off when someone, very judgmentally, says,

00:49:32.880 oh i don't keep up on that stuff when anything celebrity is mentioned

00:49:37.440 Ruthie's friends are missing out i just like yeah celebrity culture is amazing it is such

00:49:48.220 a great way to think about the world without thinking directly about the world in some ways

00:49:53.800 i'm protected from this question because i'm able to always have a phd in this yeah i like

00:50:01.000 deflect it right and i'm like oh yes i have a phd which somehow like legitimizes it which it

00:50:06.460 should like if anyone's really has been reading us weekly forever they have a phd in celebrity

00:50:11.840 you know what i mean and i think that like the same way that i think it's cool to have a lot of

00:50:18.080 knowledge about your favorite sports stars or any other hobby that you're super into it is a way of

00:50:25.980 getting really into something and knowing a lot about something that is not your job right in low

00:50:32.460 stakes yeah yeah low stakes but also like oh when i think about the star and like what are my thoughts

00:50:37.960 about them the the thing i often challenge people to do if they like for some reason feel any sort

00:50:43.740 of shame or guilt about reading trash is like sometimes be like oh why do i think that way

00:50:48.600 about this like why is my reaction the way it is just take it's like doing a little bit of like

00:50:53.380 self-interrogation there because it's usually pretty interesting but what what's your thought

00:50:58.080 when people talk to you about this sort of like shame and pop culture just broadly so one i think

00:51:03.720 you know who never asks themselves these questions of themselves yeah straight men straight men yeah

00:51:10.020 they like what they like and that's it yeah they like what they like and that's it right so i would

00:51:14.360 encourage anyone from a marginalized background to like what they like and just say that's it

00:51:19.200 Right. For one. For two, I think for a long time, part of why I've, you know, said to myself, I take celebrities seriously and entertainment seriously and pop culture seriously is because for a lot of us growing up, the things that give us the script for how to be, it's movies, it's TV, it's music, it's books, it's celebrities and how they move through the world.

00:51:39.340 You know, I grew up in a very Pentecostal, religiously conservative environment where I was obviously queer from day one.

00:51:49.140 And I was never actually around gay men around them for real until like adulthood, like adulthood when I left home.

00:51:56.920 Yeah. And so I realized as an adult now, a lot of what gave me the early script for how to like conceive of homosexuality, period, was TV and movies.

00:52:06.640 because my family wasn't teaching me that my church wasn't teaching me that so in many ways

00:52:12.340 like the fluff of tv and film and celebrity was actually educating me right so it's always worth

00:52:18.080 taking seriously especially if you're someone from a marginalized background because this stuff gives

00:52:22.000 you the script to help understand your world and the world for one um for two i think that like

00:52:30.480 this stuff actually is important yeah people will talk about sports or they'll talk about business

00:52:38.580 and they'll take it seriously because look look at all these these dollars involved it's a big

00:52:43.300 business do you know what is a multi-billion dollar industry in america cosmetics yeah why

00:52:49.520 can't i take that fucking seriously do you know what's a multi-billion dollar business the real

00:52:55.040 housewives franchise the real housewives franchise why can't i take that seriously you know years

00:53:00.460 ago um i wrote a piece for i want to say cjr and talked about it on las culturistas of all places

00:53:07.360 but i spent a long time when i was a news reporter grappling with these distinctions between hard and

00:53:13.160 soft news and you know this there's some things that are hard news and there's some things that

00:53:17.180 are soft news and that's just bible and i realized the older i got the things that they say are hard

00:53:22.580 news are things that typically straight men like and the things they say are soft news are usually

00:53:28.200 the things that women and gays are into yeah and that's it and so we have to understand that we

00:53:35.120 live in a social context in which the very question about is it is it a guilty pleasure

00:53:41.000 is it trash it is in that is informed by notions of power and patriarchy and if we want to go there

00:53:47.620 white supremacy so unpack that shit too unpack it and i'm on the soapbox now no i know i think

00:53:53.820 all i need is like a little bit of prompting and then i'm like let's talk about this question

00:53:58.540 and another thing and another thing but like when she says that she gets uh like annoyed with

00:54:04.060 herself when she gets pissed off when someone says oh i don't keep up with that stuff like

00:54:08.200 you should be pissed off that is an incredibly dismissive way to react to someone's interests

00:54:13.940 what if i was like like someone started talking about football and i just was like oh i find that

00:54:21.540 like an incredibly abrasive and stupid thing to pay attention to right oh yeah speaking of football

00:54:27.720 yeah i had someone because so last year when beyonce was touring because i could and the

00:54:33.180 money was good that year i went to see her four times i went to see beyonce twice in london and

00:54:37.260 twice in la and someone trying to be smart at one point i'm having a conversation this dude is like

00:54:42.380 you went to see beyonce four times why it's the same concert each time and i said do you like

00:54:48.560 football and he said yeah and i go if you could go to all of your favorite football teams games

00:54:55.900 for the whole season would you and he was like yeah oh i was like why because no matter what

00:55:00.920 happens i'm gonna play again next year right then he shut the fuck up but it's like we are all

00:55:06.700 allowed to enjoy what the fuck we enjoy yeah we are as long as it's not harming other people

00:55:11.080 like exactly get into your thing be like thing like life is hard and we die alone find some joy

00:55:19.280 in this motherfucking earth us weekly is there for you and do not feel like you have to defend

00:55:25.160 it like if anything yes if anything it allows you if someone sees you reading a copy of us weekly

00:55:30.860 maybe they'll have a more interesting conversation with you because you can talk about whoever's on

00:55:34.560 the cover right like i don't just fuck anyone who says that you should be feel shame for being

00:55:42.600 into celebrity culture but that's the thesis of this podcast yes yeah also i've had to learn

00:55:48.340 through just living life as an adult we think sometimes that everyone is watching everything

00:55:53.780 we're doing everyone's seeing what we care about and what we want and how we are most people don't

00:55:58.940 care yeah like everyone is the star of their own movie we sometimes think that we're the star of

00:56:04.800 the world's movie no we're not yeah people actually don't care about what you're doing as much as you

00:56:10.220 think you are live your life yeah so figure out if you like it if you're doing something because

00:56:15.500 you like it like that's part of the joy of getting older i think it's being like do i really like

00:56:20.420 doing this thing i want to do this thing i'm gonna do it man you know what i would do i would get a

00:56:25.320 subscription to us weekly and have it delivered to your house yes and get a subscription for the

00:56:32.560 person who questions your love of us weekly get it sent to their house i will say that us weekly

00:56:38.060 has gone downhill in so many different ways there are much better gossip publications i would

00:56:43.440 personally suggest hung up by hunter harris and ali jones's gossip time both of which are fantastic

00:56:48.920 because that's the future of gossip yeah so that that's a great way for us to finish but thank you

00:56:54.100 so much sam for coming on the show if people want to find more from you where can they find you

00:56:59.640 right now on the internet i host a podcast all about the culture it's amazing big c it's called

00:57:06.100 vibe check it's from stitcher and it comes out every wednesday i co-host it with my dear friends

00:57:12.840 poet and buzzfeed alum saeed jones and tony award-winning broadway producer zach stafford

00:57:20.720 former editor-in-chief of The Advocate. We are three journalists who are also black queer men

00:57:27.860 who just took our group chat and made it a podcast. And it is a riot every week. I think

00:57:32.960 y'all would like it. Besides that, you can catch me on all social platforms at Sam Sanders. And

00:57:39.620 on those platforms, I announce when I'm on other shows like recently Slate's Political Gap Fest.

00:57:45.520 Amazing. Thank you again, Sam. This was a dream come true for me.

00:57:50.720 thanks for listening to the culture study podcast be sure to subscribe wherever you

00:57:58.060 get your podcasts we have so many great episodes in the works like what's up with stanley cups

00:58:03.000 and why is everyone yelling at me to read a court of thrones and roses and why is kevin

00:58:08.740 bacon's instagram so charming i promise you do not want to miss any of them and if you want to

00:58:14.500 suggest a topic ask a question about the culture that surrounds you or submit a question for our

00:58:19.400 subscriber-only advice time segment, check the show notes for a link to our Substack.

00:58:23.900 The full version of today's episode is free for everyone. So if you like what you heard and you

00:58:28.240 want to support the show and just make a podcast sustainable in an environment where so few

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00:58:40.320 or $50 a year, and you'll get ad-free episodes, an exclusive Ask Anne Anything segment, weekly

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00:58:58.440 And if you're already a paid subscriber, thank you so much. You make this work possible.

00:59:04.560 The Culture Study Podcast is produced by me, Anne Helen Peterson, and Melody Rowell.

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00:59:13.340 Melody at Melodious47

00:59:15.640 and the show at Culture Study Pod

00:59:17.900 Thanks everyone

Culture Study Podcast - February 21, 2024

What's Bradley Cooper's Deal？

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