00:00:21.720We probably should have talked beforehand about where we wanted to start.
00:00:24.560You have a beautiful Google Doc that I am going to be referencing
00:00:28.260for the purposes of this conversation. Hello, everyone. Welcome. Good evening.
00:00:36.260I'm sure you're wondering why we've gathered you all here tonight.
00:00:40.080Okay. Do you want to start with the questions for both of us or start with your questions?
00:00:45.940I think questions for both of us should be at the end. Okay, cool. Do you want me to ask you
00:00:49.540a question? Yeah. Great. I'm just diving right into this. I know. Seriously, no intro lube,
00:00:56.580no hey everyone just straight no foreplay just fucking here we go for caroline see this is what0.98
00:01:04.280happens when you make me a google doc i'm like i'm gonna follow the google doc okay one thing0.98
00:01:08.840i'm curious about is how difficult it would be as a writer to completely delineate from amazon as a
00:01:15.940seller yes also how impactful would that delineation be regarding not participating in amazon sales
00:01:22.740rankings. It is my understanding that for writers that don't have millions of capital in backing or
00:01:27.040not recognized by name from a previous venture, opting out of selling and exposure via Amazon
00:01:32.220is incredibly challenging. Yes. So I'm glad we're talking about this and I wanted to because I think
00:01:37.260that there are a lot of questions about my like relationship with Amazon or my partnership,
00:01:42.120whatever word. I think I was kind of casual about the term that I used, but I don't have like a
00:01:46.180partnership with Amazon. I have a film deal with Amazon MGM Studios, Amazon acquired MGM Studios,
00:01:52.260And then I have a partnership. I have a contract with essentially Penguin Random House with Knopp, which is an imprint of Penguin Random House. And so I think it's important for people to understand that Amazon is now like the wholesale distributor for books. I think something like 70% of all books are purchased through Amazon. This is actually more important if you're self-published.
00:02:14.660So like the irony is that if you go an institutional route, you actually can have more leverage with independent bookstores. But like if you're self-publishing yourself, you are completely beholden to the Amazon machine.
00:02:26.940And so there is no, like, escaping that. And I think that that is why when people have asked in the past, like, where do you want us to pre-order or how do you want to engage with that? Like, for me, even if I had never done Diabolical Lies, even if I had, like, never deconstructed whatsoever, that is why writers are actively ambivalent about talking about these big corporations, about Barnes & Noble, Waterstones, Amazon.
00:02:51.380even if you never sell film rights to anyone, you are in bed with them always. They are distributing
00:02:56.680your books always. So hopefully that kind of gives you an idea. They are the person who ships
00:03:02.800everything, and that is only going to increase. So support your local independent bookstores,
00:03:07.260support libraries, support all of those things. But a lot of these places are going to basically
00:03:11.920increasingly work with an Amazon or a Barnes & Noble in order to meet this fulfillment. And so
00:03:17.720it's just, it's a very, I want to say it's complicated, but it's actually quite the opposite.
00:03:21.800It's very simple. Amazon is basically the place for books. That's like how it started. And it's
00:03:26.040only become more powerful in terms of the market share that it takes up for how it operates within
00:03:31.980publishing. Well, Barnes and Noble named Rich Girl Nation, a top 10 business book of 2025. So
00:03:38.220you will not hear me talking shit about Barnes and Noble ever.0.98
00:03:43.240Yeah. And like, again, buy where you want to buy, like engage with your ethical consumption the way that you want to. But like authors, you're never going to hear a Sally Rooney writing an op-ed about Amazon. You're not going to hear any of extremely leftist people. Noam Chomsky sells his books on Amazon. This is just like it is completely unavoidable. And you probably would not be able to secure a book deal if you refuse to work with these big corporations because they just they would not be able to ship your books, even with indie publishers.0.98
00:04:12.480For you to deny that engagement, they would be like, all right, well, then you're not going to sell any books.
00:04:17.640I was having an interesting conversation the other day that reminded me of this, where somebody had asked me about avoiding AI on the internet.
00:04:25.860And I kind of made the point, like, you can, like, not navigate to chadgpt.com, but you actually can't use the internet anymore without using AI.
00:04:33.240If you search something on Google, it will, by default, give you AI results first.
00:04:38.920And so I think to your point about unavoidability, it's like there is always that spectrum.
00:04:44.240This just reminds me a lot of the AI conversations in some ways and how quickly that is proliferating.
00:05:32.980Pre-orders give publishers ideas of how much they're going to invest in an author.
00:05:36.420So like, especially do that with independent publishers like Grey Wolf is an indie press that I absolutely love. And buy hardcover because that is the greatest percentage of hardcover goes to the author. So once you go to ebook and audiobook and paperback, those are all great. But those basically move down the line in terms of how the artist is profiting. So like, if you want to support an artist, buy their books and buy them early is what I would say.
00:06:00.700But like where you buy them from, it doesn't make a difference to me. My publisher cares about units sold. Penguin Random House isn't like, damn, so many independent booksellers love this. We got to get Walmart going. It's like they all have their own little partnerships, but where you guys buy, they just want you to buy. It does not matter. Do not overthink it. Get it where you can get it for any book that you like.
00:06:21.900Oh, that's really funny. Okay. All right. Really serious question now. In your sex dream about Ezra Klein, was his hog abundant?