Dreaming Against the Machine - September 03, 2026


Sharing a new series from Future Hindsight, Occupy! An Unfinished Uprising.

Topics
Episode 21: The AI Bubble, with Matt Scherer Episode 22: Balancing on the Abyss, with Dave Karpf

Episode Stats


Length

39 minutes

Words per minute

154.88

Word count

6,172

Sentence count

447

Harmful content

Misogyny

18

sentences flagged

Toxicity

21

sentences flagged

Hate speech

17

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
00:00:00.000 Hi, everyone. This is Adam Becker. This is not an extra episode of Dreaming Against
00:00:08.840 the Machine, but we do have something special for you today, even though it's a Thursday
00:00:12.900 and not a Tuesday. There is a podcast called Future Hindsight that has a mission pretty
00:00:19.000 similar to the mission of Dreaming Against the Machine. And they are doing a special
00:00:24.380 series right now for the 15th anniversary of Occupy Wall Street called Occupy an Unfinished
00:00:31.040 Uprising. And it's a look at what Occupy Wall Street was and what happened. And I think that
00:00:40.200 there are some really important lessons that we can learn from Occupy Wall Street, because, you
00:00:44.680 know, did Occupy Wall Street lead to real accountability for the people who were responsible
00:00:50.160 for the 2008 crash?
00:00:52.160 No, it did not.
00:00:53.560 But is the 2008 crash
00:00:55.560 going to be the last crash
00:00:56.780 that we have
00:00:57.380 where we need to find
00:00:58.380 ways to hold people accountable
00:01:00.240 for the damage
00:01:00.900 that they've done to the world
00:01:01.800 and the harms
00:01:02.300 that they've inflicted?
00:01:03.380 No, of course not.
00:01:04.640 In fact,
00:01:05.620 if you listen to
00:01:06.740 the episode
00:01:07.860 just this past Tuesday
00:01:08.940 with Matt Scherer,
00:01:10.160 you know what I think
00:01:12.420 and Matt thinks
00:01:13.160 the next crash is going to be.
00:01:15.660 It's going to be
00:01:16.100 the popping of the AI bubble
00:01:17.460 and that's going to make 2008
00:01:18.980 look like nothing.
00:01:20.160 So we are going to have to learn from our past, which is, of course, exactly what the
00:01:26.660 tech overlords never do.
00:01:28.940 And that means taking a look at Occupy Wall Street.
00:01:32.020 And I think it holds some important lessons for us here and now as we approach another
00:01:37.760 crash.
00:01:39.700 So here is the first episode of Occupy, An Unfinished Uprising.
00:01:53.060 Future Hindsight.
00:01:59.520 Zuccotti Park is a tiny plaza in Manhattan's financial district.
00:02:04.300 A small rectangle of concrete and granite surrounded on every side by skyscrapers.
00:02:11.320 It's mostly a spot for office workers to smoke a cigarette or eat a quick falafel while they scroll on their phones.
00:02:19.960 After dark, when the offices have emptied out and the surrounding shops and restaurants are closed,
00:02:26.940 the park gets quiet, even a little eerie.
00:02:31.000 Usually.
00:02:32.120 But on the night of November 15, 2011,
00:02:36.380 Zuccotti Park was buzzing with tension and fear.
00:02:40.940 Dozens of tents were set up among the grid of carefully landscaped trees,
00:02:45.540 sheltering about 200 activists.
00:02:48.680 They had come to occupy the park as both a political statement
00:02:52.020 and a social experiment, determined to stay as long as they could.
00:02:57.320 It had been 59 days.
00:03:00.560 But now, as the 60th day of the occupation was approaching,
00:03:04.860 hundreds of police officers began swarming the park.
00:03:09.400 All right, is everyone here?
00:03:10.420 Right now we're being raided at Occupy Wall Street.
00:03:13.560 Please start tweeting as many people as possible and letting folks know.
00:03:17.080 Occupy Wall Street is being raided.
00:03:19.540 As the cops surrounded them, the occupiers had a live stream going.
00:03:23.920 They sent out a call for help to their network of supporters across the city.
00:03:28.100 It was the middle of the night, and suddenly phone calls, text messages, like all these notifications.
00:03:35.300 My phone just blew the hell up.
00:03:38.640 And it's like, the park is being raided now. We need people now.
00:03:42.240 Hundreds of supporters began rushing to Zuccotti Park as the occupiers tried to hold ground.
00:03:48.620 The cops are like right in front of us.
00:03:50.600 A wall of cops in riot gear.
00:03:53.340 They've got the, you know, the shields and they're fully weaponized.
00:03:58.100 And we look like a bunch of hippies.
00:04:00.680 There's people screaming everywhere.
00:04:02.160 Like, literally, tents are being torn apart with knives.
00:04:05.280 They're throwing people's stuff over their heads.
00:04:07.540 They're going through tents and throwing them out. 0.99
00:04:09.300 All my shit's in there. 0.99
00:04:10.780 All my friends are in there. 1.00
00:04:13.220 That's my fucking home. 0.99
00:04:15.980 Supporters began arriving, ready to join what had essentially become a giant sit-in. 1.00
00:04:21.660 But the cops had blocked off streets and installed barricades around the park.
00:04:27.140 The cab came in closer and closer to Zuccotti.
00:04:30.100 There was police everywhere.
00:04:31.580 Roads were blocked.
00:04:32.900 It felt like a war zone.
00:04:34.200 The cab driver was scared, so we're like, don't go any further.
00:04:37.160 We'll get out and walk.
00:04:38.520 I was like, let me out.
00:04:39.740 And I, like, ran the rest of the way.
00:04:41.780 I was trying to get over these things.
00:04:43.080 I was like, how do I climb over this?
00:04:44.420 I was trying to do parkour.
00:04:46.160 Soon, an enormous crowd of people protesting the raid surrounded the park.
00:04:50.480 They locked arms, blocking police vans and watching as the police arrested the occupiers.
00:04:57.860 Tension and rage ticked up.
00:05:01.040 Get him back out of the way!
00:05:02.500 Get him on the phone! 0.98
00:05:04.100 Shame on you! 1.00
00:05:07.440 Shame on you! 1.00
00:05:08.860 Shame on you! 1.00
00:05:10.240 Shame on you! 1.00
00:05:11.680 Shame on you!
00:05:20.480 Zuccotti Park was the nucleus of the Occupy movement, the first American movement driven by social media.
00:05:28.140 The Occupiers had slept in the park for almost two months through the rain and snow.
00:05:32.760 They had been infiltrated, pepper sprayed, and made fun of by the mainstream media.
00:05:37.920 But their message, that the capitalist system was rigged to benefit the 1% and exploit the rest of us,
00:05:45.100 that message had resonated from the moment they set up camp in the park.
00:05:49.920 What started as less than a dozen college students camping out in a park near the New York Stock Exchange is now hundreds of protesters.
00:05:56.760 The crowds swelled dramatically as labor unions and college students added their voices.
00:06:02.220 Protests against Wall Street continued to grow across the country.
00:06:05.640 Occupy Wall Street has become Occupy the World.
00:06:07.760 Occupy Wall Street came on the heels of a devastating economic crash
00:06:14.780 that was caused by corporate greed,
00:06:17.480 but paid for by millions of regular people
00:06:20.200 who lost their homes, jobs, and retirement savings.
00:06:25.060 Our political leaders bailed out the banks by using taxpayer dollars.
00:06:29.940 Basically, regular working people had to foot the bill for corporate greed.
00:06:33.980 And Occupy was able to channel the widespread rage, frustration, and despair into something inspiring.
00:06:43.060 It's hard to explain why it exploded so dramatically and then flamed out so quickly.
00:06:48.800 But looking back, it's clear that Occupy changed the way Americans understood capitalism.
00:06:55.260 It punctured the myth that hard work is all it takes to get ahead.
00:07:00.060 Politicians like Bernie Sanders, who embraced the idea of the 99%, suddenly became icons.
00:07:07.240 Occupy Wall Street truly kicked off an era of protests and populist politics
00:07:11.780 that have, in many ways, led us to the strange moment we're in today.
00:07:17.260 And today, well, we're in a very dark place.
00:07:22.240 Donald Trump is marching us steadily toward full authoritarianism,
00:07:26.020 and our political leaders on both the left and right
00:07:28.660 seem incapable of, or unwilling, to stop it.
00:07:33.020 But that Occupy energy, that recognition
00:07:35.220 that no one is coming to save us,
00:07:37.360 so we better save ourselves,
00:07:39.220 that energy is bubbling up again,
00:07:41.520 just like it did in 2011.
00:07:43.740 We again have an economic crisis,
00:07:46.080 a war in the Middle East, 0.93
00:07:47.540 and no one seems to be looking out
00:07:49.460 for regular working people.
00:07:51.340 Understanding the story of Occupy
00:07:53.220 can help us figure out how to harness
00:07:55.260 that grassroots power more effectively than we have before.
00:07:58.920 And I want to know, what did Occupy get right?
00:08:02.740 And what did it get wrong?
00:08:04.780 What can we learn from its successes and failures
00:08:07.520 that might help us build a new movement against fascism?
00:08:11.960 From Future Hindsight, I'm your host, Mila Atmos.
00:08:15.360 And this is Occupy, an unfinished uprising.
00:08:25.260 Episode 1, The Invitation.
00:08:30.320 The Occupy movement starts with the story of a generation
00:08:34.200 whose promise had been abruptly halted when the economy crashed in 2008.
00:08:39.560 The housing market collapse created one financial crisis after another,
00:08:43.560 and it often seemed as if the news could only get worse.
00:08:45.960 In just six months, three of the five biggest independent firms on Wall Street have now disappeared.
00:08:51.700 Bailing out Wall Street is the only way to save Main Street, so says the president.
00:08:57.320 The signs were everywhere, but now it's official we are in a recession.
00:09:03.660 The bankers who caused the crash got bailed out.
00:09:07.720 Congress allocated $700 billion taxpayer dollars to stabilize the economy.
00:09:13.000 And most of that money went to the two big-to-fail financial institutions that had caused the economic meltdown.
00:09:21.220 Distressed homeowners got little assistance.
00:09:24.200 And the people who'd been laid off or lost huge chunks of retirement savings because of the crash,
00:09:29.260 they didn't get any bailouts.
00:09:31.520 Meanwhile, the nine banks that received the most help from the massive taxpayer bailout
00:09:36.540 gave 5,000 employees bonuses of at least $1 million each.
00:09:41.680 In the aftermath of the crash, a lot of young people either could not afford college
00:09:46.800 or were graduating with crushing student loan debt.
00:09:49.660 They were entering the workforce in the middle of a deep recession, and their ability to launch a career or repay their loans or buy their first home, well, all of that had essentially been put on pause for who knows how long.
00:10:05.200 To put it another way, what COVID lockdowns were to Gen Z, the 2008 financial crash was to millennials.
00:10:11.780 I want to introduce you to three people who were in their teens or early 20s
00:10:18.420 when the economy took its nosedive.
00:10:21.380 First is Nalini Stamp, a born and raised New Yorker and Afro-Latina woman.
00:10:27.420 My mother went bankrupt during the financial crisis.
00:10:29.940 We were served an eviction notice from our apartment.
00:10:32.160 Like, all of these things came crashing down, and I never was comfortable about saying it.
00:10:37.240 A confluence of medical bills, delinquent child support, and the economic crash put them in a tight spot.
00:10:44.180 Nalini was in high school at the time.
00:10:46.480 I was like, why is there only this amount of food in the fridge?
00:10:48.960 I didn't feel like we were on steady ground.
00:10:51.400 We got an eviction notice. It was a pink slip.
00:10:54.200 That's when I started to not show up to school anymore.
00:10:56.200 I said, what is the point of this?
00:10:58.240 Nalini realized college was out of reach. 1.00
00:11:00.760 The price tag was just too high.
00:11:03.640 So she gave up, quit school, got a GED, started working minimum wage jobs.
00:11:10.360 By 2011, Nalini had gotten a lower-level job at the Working Families Party,
00:11:15.200 a pro-worker political party that runs progressive candidates.
00:11:18.760 I have a good enough degree, GED, and I was lying to my colleagues
00:11:24.360 when I first started at the Working Families Party that I went to college for some bit of time.
00:11:28.460 I was so embarrassed by that.
00:11:30.160 Then there's Sandy Nurse. She was born in Panama to two Navy sailors, a white American mother and a black Panamanian father.
00:11:39.720 I started as a kid who was a part of a U.S. military occupying force, the mission of which is to exploit people, land and resources for the benefit of the United States of America.
00:11:52.680 And I spent a lot of time, almost my entire childhood, moving around the world and seeing the reactions to that, the consequences of that.
00:12:04.100 She went to college in the U.S. where she graduated with a poli-sci degree and an incredible amount of student loan debt.
00:12:11.680 And in 2011, she'd begun what seemed like a promising career in humanitarian aid.
00:12:16.720 I was just coming off of a United Nations World Food Program in Haiti.
00:12:23.500 I was visiting different cities and villages to write these reports about the distribution of food aid.
00:12:30.440 At the time of the earthquake, all food systems collapsed in Haiti.
00:12:35.780 So she's a do-gooder, trying to help Haitians in the aftermath of an earthquake that killed hundreds of thousands of people and left many more homeless.
00:12:44.980 Except the way that the U.N. food program was helping just feels wrong.
00:12:51.800 The U.N. was paying Haitians who had just been through a traumatic natural disaster in food or low wages in exchange for hard labor. 0.98
00:13:00.180 The thing that really just kind of snapped for me and essentially just broke my heart was seeing on this mountainside these old Haitian women in their flip flops carrying these boulders to make these walls. 0.98
00:13:14.500 to prevent the landsides. 1.00
00:13:15.700 And this is a job that most in the United States we'd see on a highway.
00:13:19.660 You'd see people with, like, a backhoe or, like, a big claw, caterpillar thing. 1.00
00:13:24.900 These women are just moving these boulders. 1.00
00:13:27.500 And I just said, this shit is, this is not for me. 1.00
00:13:30.100 Like, we should not be asking these women to work for a sack of beans or some small dollars 1.00
00:13:36.720 to do public works projects that are the job of a state, a nation state, or a government. 0.97
00:13:42.280 I walked away from that, really let down by the promise of what I was being told as a child about the project of Americanism.
00:13:52.240 And so Sandy quit that whole endeavor, gave up on that career path to take a less ethically fraught job.
00:13:58.960 My family was upset and didn't understand what I was doing.
00:14:02.560 And they were like, you're like a bike, you're like a food delivery person now.
00:14:06.080 So, summer of 2011, she was delivering food to residents of gentrified Brooklyn and trying to figure out her place in the world.
00:14:14.660 And it just so happened at that moment, Occupy came about.
00:14:18.500 Which brings me to Marissa Holmes, one of the people who planned the occupation from the beginning. 0.99
00:14:24.680 She's a soft-spoken white woman.
00:14:26.780 She comes off as earnest and idealistic, not a cynic like Sandy or Nalini.
00:14:32.520 Maybe it's her Midwestern roots.
00:14:34.520 I grew up in central Ohio, in a small town that kind of became a suburb.
00:14:41.920 And my parents had been involved in, like, Democratic Party politics mostly.
00:14:48.420 I mean, they definitely talked about politics, like, constantly.
00:14:53.820 Her dad was actually a labor lawyer for a time.
00:14:57.040 I was in high school when 9-11 happened.
00:15:02.220 Terrorists declare war on the United States, hijacking jet miners, crashing them into New York's World Trade Towers.
00:15:08.800 President George W. Bush made the call to enter into a war that would end up expanding and lasting 20 years.
00:15:16.260 On my orders, coalition forces have begun to select the targets of military.
00:15:20.460 I learned about, you know, politics and how power works and how to organize first, you know, from my parents and then became more radicalized in the context.
00:15:31.500 to the anti-war movement.
00:15:33.000 From then on, she was a dedicated activist.
00:15:36.100 By the summer of 2011, Marissa was 25,
00:15:39.480 a grad student living in Brooklyn
00:15:41.340 and part of a new anarchist group
00:15:43.740 called the New York City General Assembly.
00:15:47.180 And it was that group, the anarchists,
00:15:49.420 who really gave life to the Occupy movement.
00:15:55.380 It was a long, hot August in the summer of 2011,
00:15:59.560 and we met under the Hare Krishna tree in Tompkins Square Park.
00:16:04.700 Tompkins Square Park is a leafy oasis in the East Village neighborhood of Manhattan.
00:16:11.400 It has all the regular things a New York City park has.
00:16:15.520 A bustling playground, a dog run, old men sitting on benches feeding the pigeons,
00:16:20.940 rats, and the Hare Krishna tree.
00:16:24.940 But what, you may be wondering, is the Hare Krishna tree?
00:16:28.340 In the middle of Tonkman Square Park, there's a rather large tree with roots that kind of extend out into the concrete and break it up.
00:16:37.500 And people go there to meditate and play music and just be together.
00:16:45.340 This huge elm tree was the site of the first Hare Krishna outdoor chanting session in the country in 1966, which is how it got its name.
00:16:54.220 In August of 2011, it became the meeting spot for the New York City General Assembly.
00:17:00.480 I always got there early and would jot down a few things for agenda points and wait for people to show up.
00:17:09.060 Usually people were late because, you know, operating on anarchist time, people are generally late.
00:17:17.200 Many of the people who showed up at the Hare Krishna tree had been protesting the city's austerity measures.
00:17:22.740 Because, remember, while the financial institutions that had caused the 2008 crash
00:17:27.860 had gotten massive government bailouts, city budgets all over the place had been cut.
00:17:32.960 And three years later, were still struggling.
00:17:35.720 They had camped outside City Hall for three weeks to protest
00:17:39.060 then-Mayor Michael Bloomberg's budget cuts to city services.
00:17:42.860 They called that occupation Bloombergville, but it had petered out rather unsuccessfully.
00:17:48.660 Now they were hungry to do something else,
00:17:50.900 and they were trying to figure out what exactly the next big thing would be.
00:17:56.540 Their meetings, which they called assemblies, would stretch on for hours as they debated strategy and principles.
00:18:03.620 The afternoons in the park would turn into evenings at nearby bars,
00:18:07.660 where smaller groups would continue their discussions around pitchers of beer.
00:18:12.080 There was no shortage of ideas and opinions among this committed group of activists.
00:18:16.840 The challenge was getting a bigger crowd to show up to whatever direct action they planned.
00:18:23.240 There was not a lot of social movement energy.
00:18:27.620 This is Astra Taylor, an author and documentary filmmaker who was in her mid-30s at the time.
00:18:34.020 She had already spent more than a decade as an activist and, I think it's safe to say, was worn down a bit.
00:18:41.020 That was from experience.
00:18:42.560 It was an incredibly demoralizing experience to protest in the aughts.
00:18:47.860 I mean, typically what would happen is the cops would kettle you, which means that they would sort of wrap your protests in this orange netting and haul you off to jail.
00:18:55.400 Or they'd say, stay in this little tiny free speech pen.
00:18:58.980 If there was political energy, it was online.
00:19:01.660 There was this kind of prankster, disruptive spirit on the Internet.
00:19:06.940 And that is where the spark that ignited Occupy came from.
00:19:10.940 A meme.
00:19:13.520 In July 2011, 90,000 people got an email with a stark and beautiful image.
00:19:20.620 In black and white, you see the Charging Bull statue,
00:19:23.940 that huge bronze beast in Manhattan's financial district that's supposed to represent the stock market.
00:19:30.180 A ballerina is standing on top of the bull's back.
00:19:33.360 She's thin, white, wearing a dark unitard. 0.67
00:19:36.760 Her eyes are lowered. 0.99
00:19:38.620 She's in a classic arabesque pose. 0.99
00:19:41.600 Arms outstretched and one leg gracefully arcing out behind her.
00:19:47.480 Behind the ballerina and the bull, there's a crowd emerging from a haze of smoke.
00:19:52.180 They look like our stereotypical idea of anarchists, wearing gas masks and dark clothes.
00:19:58.160 They're surging forward in the same charging motion as the bull.
00:20:01.900 One of them brandishes a stick.
00:20:04.080 At the top of the image, in red, all caps, it says,
00:20:08.740 What is our one demand?
00:20:10.780 Below it, hashtag Occupy Wall Street, September 17th, Bring Tent.
00:20:17.640 The email with this image came from Adbusters, an activist magazine that liked to stir up trouble.
00:20:24.400 It was known for its beautifully designed spoof ads critiquing consumer culture.
00:20:29.040 Adbusters regularly instigated boycotts and encouraged people to artfully vandalize billboards.
00:20:35.540 And now, their Occupy Wall Street image and hashtag was ripping through the Internet.
00:20:41.380 One of the groups that promoted this idea to Occupy Wall Street was Anonymous,
00:20:45.860 the hacktivist collective that had gained notoriety for launching cyberattacks against corporations and the Church of Scientology.
00:20:52.540 Anonymous announced that they were taking to the streets and urged people to join them.
00:20:56.880 Hello, citizens of the Internet. We are Anonymous.
00:21:00.040 On September 17th, Anonymous will flood into Lower Manhattan, set up tents, kitchens, peaceful barricades and occupy Wall Street for a few months. Once there, we shall incessantly repeat one simple demand in a plurality of voices. We want freedom. This is a nonviolent protest. We do not encourage violence in any way. The abuse and corruption of corporations, banks and governments, ends here. Join us.
00:21:28.140 We are Anonymous. We are Legion. We do not forgive. We do not forget. Wall Street. Expect us.
00:21:40.640 The editors at AdBusters had made it clear that they only wanted to instigate, not organize.
00:21:46.720 And certainly, Anonymous wasn't used to IRL actions.
00:21:50.880 For Marissa's group of anarchists, the New York City General Assembly,
00:21:53.980 it was like they'd been given a save-the-date for a party they'd been thinking about throwing,
00:21:58.500 but hadn't fully committed to yet.
00:22:01.440 But now that someone else had announced an actual time and place,
00:22:05.340 they decided to go with it.
00:22:07.260 They created a plan for the first day and hoped that people would show up.
00:22:11.180 And really, that was the big question.
00:22:14.220 Would online enthusiasm translate into the real world?
00:22:17.700 Would people actually show up?
00:22:19.840 Astra was skeptical.
00:22:20.820 It was a pretty bleak time to be a leftist.
00:22:24.900 Despite the fact that we were in an economic meltdown, there was mass foreclosures, there was mass joblessness, economic insecurity.
00:22:32.880 The left wasn't mobilizing, but the right was.
00:22:36.240 USA! USA! USA!
00:22:38.640 From Washington, D.C., to Connecticut, to Wisconsin, and all over the country, thousands of people came out to protest government spending.
00:22:46.680 The Tea Party got off the ground in 2009.
00:22:54.760 The Tea Party movement was a right-wing populist uprising.
00:22:58.320 They protested both the bank bailouts and government efforts to help distressed homeowners and unemployed people,
00:23:05.340 which they viewed as government handouts to undeserving poor people.
00:23:10.500 And so they showed up en masse on tax day to protest government spending.
00:23:15.800 Over half a million people across the country attended these tax day protests.
00:23:19.940 People were angry about the bank bailouts.
00:23:21.980 They were angry about the economy.
00:23:23.680 They were feeling insecure.
00:23:24.700 And it was channeled into this right-wing reactionary racist movement.
00:23:28.240 It was like, how can we be in a situation akin to the Great Depression?
00:23:31.860 And the populist right is mobilizing.
00:23:34.020 And progressives and the left are nowhere to be found.
00:23:37.420 But now there was a call to respond from the left that seemed to have some traction.
00:23:42.300 It was late, three years after the economic crash.
00:23:46.160 But at least there was something.
00:23:47.700 And it promised to be noisy and disruptive and maybe a little nuts.
00:23:51.820 A call to camp out on Wall Street for as long as they could
00:23:54.700 as a way to bring attention to how unfair it was
00:23:57.500 that regular people had borne the brunt of a financial crash
00:24:00.460 brought on by Wall Street greed.
00:24:03.440 It was something that, well, Astra didn't help plan
00:24:07.500 and didn't think was going to work.
00:24:10.120 But the fact that there was crickets on our side after this incredible, incredible betrayal of the country by these bankers and by the politicians of both parties who are bailing them out and leaving people to suffer.
00:24:25.780 It just felt like, well, we have to do something. And that was enough of a motivation to get me to show up at something that I wasn't particularly optimistic about.
00:24:34.600 Perhaps it was only because Occupy was kind of the only game in town.
00:24:39.220 But our cynics, Sandy and Alini, that I introduced to you earlier, were curious.
00:24:43.740 I had been following online a little bit, and one of my best friends,
00:24:47.900 both of us were kind of these gloom and doom, disillusioned, apathetic, hate political culture.
00:24:54.220 We had that kind of a summer.
00:24:55.660 We were just kind of reveling in the futileness of everything.
00:24:59.600 and so we're kind of following along
00:25:02.620 and we just decided oh we're going to go down there
00:25:04.680 on the first day let's just check it out
00:25:06.440 I was approached by a lot of white people
00:25:08.680 about Occupy Wall Street
00:25:10.600 like in the months before and I was like
00:25:12.220 why would I choose to sleep outside
00:25:14.400 what 1.00
00:25:14.900 what is this white shit to be honest 1.00
00:25:18.720 that was my like 1.00
00:25:19.780 what is this
00:25:21.260 sleeping outside like by choice
00:25:24.300 I thought it was insane 0.99
00:25:26.640 the day to occupy arrived september 17th 2011 a saturday marissa and a bunch of the other
00:25:38.920 hardcore activists were ready to set up camp outside the new york stock exchange i woke up
00:25:44.780 around eight o'clock and packed my backpack which was quite large i'm like five two and it was
00:25:52.800 probably like my size. I made my way on Ford train and then I got off at the Wall Street stop
00:26:01.180 and wandered around and realized that the police were already there and there were barricades up.
00:26:07.500 Since they couldn't actually get to the stock exchange, Marissa and her fellow activists from
00:26:12.880 the New York General Assembly rerouted the group to Zuccotti Park. The crowd, some with signs,
00:26:18.700 some playing instruments, made their way there.
00:26:22.140 Nalini showed up at Zuccotti and looked around.
00:26:25.880 The occupiers had been doing yoga, face painting,
00:26:29.180 eating peanut butter sandwiches, singing.
00:26:31.880 There was already a drum circle.
00:26:34.440 It didn't feel very serious.
00:26:37.680 I felt like I was in the movie Hair.
00:26:39.600 It was very, like, hippy-dippy.
00:26:41.260 I was political to the point of doing stuff,
00:26:43.220 but I never was like, I'm an anarchist or a socialist.
00:26:45.720 Like, I just cared that the rich have too much money. 0.96
00:26:47.780 I knew it in my bones that, like, rich people, corporations, like, they're crazy.
00:26:52.200 And it was an injustice.
00:26:53.680 But I just looked around and was like, yeah, I'm going to be here for like an hour.
00:26:58.300 Eventually, the festival part of it all that Nalini really wasn't feeling
00:27:02.060 transitioned into something deeper and more personal.
00:27:05.900 For the afternoon, people were having small group conversations
00:27:09.320 on questions that we had come up with in the New York City General Assembly.
00:27:13.800 And those questions were loosely like, what world do you want to live in?
00:27:19.700 What's happening right now with the economic crisis?
00:27:22.820 How do we get from where we are now to this world that we want to live in?
00:27:27.060 Astra arrived in time for the small group conversations.
00:27:30.800 What was so striking to me and caught my imagination out of the gate was that instead of standing there and chanting, which would have been a kind of conventional thing to do.
00:27:40.900 I mean, that's what protesters usually do.
00:27:42.280 We were all told to sit in small circles with our neighbors.
00:27:46.600 And so we immediately organized ourselves into these mini assemblies, groups of maybe a dozen to 15 people.
00:27:53.980 And we just started talking. 0.97
00:27:55.580 And that already felt like such a break with the usual script, because instead of standing sort of outside the New York Stock Exchange and saying, you know, you suck and shouting at it, 0.98
00:28:08.440 we were actually building bonds with each other. 0.96
00:28:12.280 People had all kinds of stories.
00:28:16.140 They had hitchhiked across the country and had nothing, had no job, no money, just used whatever they could to get to the occupation.
00:28:28.000 And there was this palpable sense of rage, this simmering rage that people wanted to unleash.
00:28:35.820 People had been waiting for years to say something, and they finally could say it.
00:28:42.280 Nalini had certainly felt that way.
00:28:44.860 She'd been carrying the shame of the empty fridge, the eviction notice, her lack of college education, 0.66
00:28:51.660 the lie to her employer that she hadn't been able to afford the college education she'd put on her resume.
00:28:57.680 She was suddenly hearing stories just like hers from other people.
00:29:01.980 What shifted for me was that general assembly that first night and people getting up and telling their stories.
00:29:08.700 At first, people told their stories in these small groups.
00:29:12.280 And then the whole crowd, estimated to be almost 1,000 people, was brought together for a general assembly.
00:29:19.180 In anarchist fashion, there was no leader, just a facilitation team that invited everyone to take turns speaking.
00:29:26.420 I remember somebody saying that their parents' home got foreclosed upon.
00:29:29.400 I remember hearing somebody just said, I went to all this college and have all this debt.
00:29:33.760 And, like, we were all told we had to go to college to get a better job.
00:29:36.940 And somebody was like, and I'm working at Starbucks.
00:29:38.460 Not that it's like, you know, solidarity with the Starbucks Workers Union, but like that wasn't what we were told you go to college for, right?
00:29:46.600 There was a building sense of connection of no.
00:29:49.440 It wasn't just you or your bad choices that put you in debt.
00:29:53.580 There's a pattern here.
00:29:55.300 With each sort of confession, there was this sense of hope.
00:30:00.120 We know how bad it is and we just need to come together and build this space and like it's gonna happen.
00:30:07.560 And we are the people to do it.
00:30:10.600 The sense of urgency and commitment was really, I had never seen that before.
00:30:17.520 Part of it was the way all of this was unfolding.
00:30:21.400 They used something called the people's mic, where everyone had to repeat what the speaker was saying.
00:30:26.900 And again, anyone could speak.
00:30:29.000 There weren't leaders or vetted speakers.
00:30:31.120 And then there were the twinkle fingers, where you waggle your fingers to show agreement.
00:30:36.300 It was just so different from anything Nalini had seen before.
00:30:39.760 This whole, like, hands thing, twinkle fingers.
00:30:42.300 I was like, okay, this is going to be wild.
00:30:45.100 But she was, in spite of herself, inspired.
00:30:48.020 She stood up to speak at one point.
00:30:50.340 I remember getting up.
00:30:51.360 I don't remember what I said.
00:30:52.760 I think I was like, I hate the blah, blah, blah.
00:30:55.200 But I don't remember what I said.
00:30:56.400 But that moment I sat down after I spoke.
00:30:59.280 And I was like, whatever's happening, I like it.
00:31:02.340 And I'm going to do what needs to be done.
00:31:06.400 That moment of cynicism turning to optimism was happening for other people at the park, too, including Sandy, who had arrived with friends.
00:31:14.720 I can't explain exactly why I stayed. I just know that we went down, we went for this little march, and then we hung out in the park and participated in these breakout group conversations.
00:31:27.560 Of course, the powers that be wanted them out of the park.
00:31:31.560 In the spirit of direct democracy, their decision to stay or go was up to the group as a whole.
00:31:37.120 So, Marissa took a bullhorn to make an announcement.
00:31:39.820 It's a really amazing process of direct democracy.
00:31:44.780 But we recognize that this is a specific group, a gathering that we have here.
00:31:49.280 And we want to hear from people here to see how we can proceed tonight.
00:31:53.400 So one of our first orders of business is, you know, are we going to stay or not?
00:31:59.600 She passed the bullhorn to someone else from the facilitation team.
00:32:02.720 I'm here with some logistical information.
00:32:05.160 This square is technically a privately owned square.
00:32:10.700 We have been in contact with the property owner
00:32:20.160 who has told us that his intention is to not allow people to sleep in this park tonight.
00:32:27.820 The pros and cons were weighed.
00:32:30.100 The sun fully set.
00:32:31.800 People were lit by flashlights.
00:32:33.540 And at some point, the bullhorn was replaced by the people's mic.
00:32:36.720 perhaps to dissuade the cops from issuing noise violations.
00:32:40.920 The facilitation team, something that people want, stay here, and occupy this square.
00:32:55.840 How do you feel about that?
00:32:57.260 This was a moment for each individual, Sandy, Astra, Nalini, and everyone else to decide, would they stay or would they go? Sandy.
00:33:11.000 The crowd kept getting thinner and thinner, and we just kept hanging out.
00:33:16.440 And eventually we just decided, yeah, we're going to stay the night. 1.00
00:33:19.520 I mean, fuck it. 1.00
00:33:20.460 See what happens. 1.00
00:33:21.120 We don't have much on the line because we're not fully invested in the idea that we're going to get the world we want.
00:33:28.580 So let's just hang out here with these folks who seem angry, too.
00:33:33.400 Meanwhile, somewhere else in the park, Nalini was making the same decision.
00:33:37.800 Me and my friends, we were like, you're going to sleep here? We're like, yeah.
00:33:41.040 Astra made a different choice. 1.00
00:33:42.460 I headed home because I did not think this tiny ragtag group had a snowball's chance in hell 0.99
00:33:50.780 of staying the night. No way. I could see the cops. They were coming closer. And my sense was 1.00
00:33:58.400 that they were going to go, okay, kids, you've had enough. Like, you know, we're going to beat
00:34:03.300 the shit out of you. That's what I thought was about to happen. And I didn't want to be there 0.99
00:34:07.240 for that. Marissa was anxiously watching the police in riot gear. I was terrified because 0.92
00:34:16.520 I didn't feel like we had prepared enough. I really, I felt this sense of responsibility.
00:34:22.980 So I was both excited and terrified of what would come next. Nathan Schneider, a journalist who had
00:34:28.680 been covering activism in the city, was there. There had been a few thousand people there that
00:34:33.400 day, but by this point, it was dark. New York has this kind of eerie feeling in these sections of
00:34:40.140 the city where not a lot of people are out at night in these corridors of office buildings.
00:34:45.980 And so by this point, there were just 100, maybe 200 at most, if that, protesters sitting in this
00:34:54.740 park surrounded by police. It was a very scary moment. In the dark, in that moment of tension,
00:35:01.020 he witnessed some kind of exchange between what seemed like the property owners and the NYPD.
00:35:06.940 I saw a suburban roll up a police vehicle.
00:35:11.120 You know, someone was talking to the officers who were there.
00:35:14.200 I think I saw Police Commissioner Kelly.
00:35:16.900 Something that was said in that exchange in that moment said,
00:35:21.140 OK, this is not going to be an attack.
00:35:23.180 The police surrounding this park had made the decision to let it be.
00:35:27.760 and after that, the tension kind of reduced.
00:35:33.300 People started to fall asleep. 0.99
00:35:35.460 Here's Nalini again.
00:35:36.980 I just got too tired, and we all, like, fell asleep on the ground.
00:35:39.640 It got cold. I didn't bring anything.
00:35:42.020 And Sandy.
00:35:43.140 One of my friends drove to Yonkers to get us blankets.
00:35:46.580 I don't know why he went that far, but he's like,
00:35:48.200 I'm going to make sure you all have blankets,
00:35:50.500 and went up to Yonkers and came back with all these blankets.
00:35:53.740 And then in the middle of the night, a ferry comes, I swear to God,
00:35:56.540 just drops blankets over us.
00:35:59.300 And that was the moment when I was like,
00:36:01.440 okay, yeah, we might not know what we're doing, 0.96
00:36:03.760 but we'll figure shit out for each other.
00:36:09.720 Occupy is a story of the improbable becoming possible. 0.97
00:36:13.720 A story of hopelessness and cynicism
00:36:16.480 making way for inspiration and collective action.
00:36:20.260 It was clear from that very first day
00:36:22.660 that Occupy had tapped into something
00:36:24.700 that Nalini, Sandy, Marissa, and thousands of others had all been feeling.
00:36:30.080 They were, understandably, furious with the Wall Street bankers who crashed the economy.
00:36:35.660 And they felt betrayed by the political leaders who enabled, and some would say, rewarded it.
00:36:41.920 But Occupy was a lot more than an opportunity to rage at the system.
00:36:46.920 Anger wasn't the thing that kept people coming back for 59 days to sleep on the concrete.
00:36:52.320 There was some other magic happening that had something to do with the energizing force of collective action.
00:36:59.340 It's that, the energy, the inspiration, that's most interesting to me.
00:37:04.340 Is there a way to harness that again?
00:37:07.900 Occupy was also a social experiment.
00:37:10.660 They weren't just there to protest.
00:37:12.020 They were trying to create an anarchist, anti-capitalist utopia inside that tiny park.
00:37:17.040 And against all odds, people across the United States set up their own occupations
00:37:22.040 and copied what the radicals in New York City were doing.
00:37:25.600 In this way, Zuccotti Park became a testing ground for a set of ideals that the organizers had arrived with.
00:37:32.500 Leaderlessness, radical inclusivity, direct democracy.
00:37:37.320 At the beginning, it wasn't at all clear if any of it would work.
00:37:41.840 What happens when a movement has no leader?
00:37:43.740 Does radical inclusivity make it stronger or more chaotic?
00:37:48.040 And if change must come from outside the system, how do you build something powerful enough not just to resist injustice, but to replace it?
00:38:00.040 Coming up on the next five episodes of Occupy, an unfinished uprising.
00:38:05.380 Occupy Wall Street, it was a really exciting and enlivening and beautiful train wreck, but it was a train wreck.
00:38:16.920 The NYPD would pick people up on the street for public drunkenness or disorderly conduct or something.
00:38:24.080 They would drop them off in the park and say, you need a hot meal, you need a blanket, you need a coat, go down to Zuccotti Park.
00:38:29.860 and the escalation of police activity was like really really wild out of nowhere that's that's
00:38:40.460 when we were sprayed occupy it was a physical space where people put their values into practice
00:38:47.340 and that's not something that we see very often i wish something like it would happen again
00:38:59.860 Occupy, an unfinished uprising
00:39:05.080 is a future hindsight production
00:39:07.280 hosted and executive produced by me, Mila Atmos
00:39:10.960 reporting, writing, and producing by Maria Luisa Tucker
00:39:15.420 additional production help from Mia Warren
00:39:18.520 Erica Gaida, Megan Dietry, and Lizzie Jacobs
00:39:22.100 audio engineering and producing by Zach Travis
00:39:26.080 archival research by Marissa Holmes
00:39:29.060 Archival material courtesy of Occupy Wall Street Media Working Group
00:39:34.020 Original music by Rude Mechanical Orchestra and Pooj Roo
00:39:38.240 Special thanks to TJ Raphael, Lauren Purcell, Ariel Nissenblatt
00:39:43.580 and Kate Blumenfeld for being our first listeners and sounding boards
00:39:48.500 and to Tom Koenig for his support