For The Wild - July 16, 2020


BUFFY SAINTE-MARIE on Creative Decolonization in a Global Village ⌠ENCORE⌡⧸192

Topics
Doctrine of Discovery travel evolving together decolonization
Lama ROD OWENS on Liberatory Rage ⧸191 ROWEN M WHITE on Seed Rematriation and Fertile Resistance ⧸193

Episode Stats


Length

1 hour

Words per minute

129.12

Word count

7,784

Sentence count

374

Harmful content

Misogyny

8

sentences flagged

Toxicity

18

sentences flagged

Hate speech

42

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
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00:00:27.080 Hey for the wild community, Ayanna here. Before we begin this episode, I want to take a moment
00:00:34.900 to thank our friends at Mountain Rose Herbs for supporting this podcast. Some of you may know that
00:00:40.600 my journey with the show, which used to be called Unlearn and Rewild, started with my awakening to
00:00:46.260 the plant world through herbalism and my first plant teacher, the late Cascade Anderson Geller.
00:00:52.500 So it feels close to my heart that seven years later, Mountain Rose is by our side.
00:00:58.400 Mountain Rose Herbs offers high-quality, organic, and sustainably harvested herbs, spices, teas, essential oils, and botanical goods.
00:01:07.480 Beginning in 1987, Mountain Rose Herbs made it their mission to provide plant lovers with exceptional organic botanicals harvested with the utmost respect for the places they grow and the people who grow them.
00:01:21.340 Mountain Rose Herbs is generously offering For the Wild listeners 10% off of their next
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00:01:30.320 You can learn about Mountain Rose Herbs and their offerings at mountainroseherbs.com.
00:01:36.240 Alright, now on to the show.
00:01:39.740 Welcome to For the Wild podcast.
00:01:42.240 I'm Ayanna Young.
00:01:43.500 This week we are rebroadcasting our interview with a For the Wild inspiration, Buffy St.
00:01:49.660 Marie.
00:01:50.340 initially released in November of 2015. In this conversation, Buffy and I explore how
00:01:56.960 we can cultivate creativity and global awareness. We hope you enjoy this special Encore episode.
00:02:20.340 Who's got the prairie sun in every smile
00:02:24.340 Who's got good credit yet with all mother nature
00:02:28.340 Ooh, native North American child
00:02:32.340 Who's got the rhythm of the universe inside 1.00
00:02:36.340 Who taught the pilgrims how to make it in the wild
00:02:40.340 Who sings her 49er rock and roll changes
00:02:44.340 Ooh, native North American child 1.00
00:02:48.340 Sing about your ebony African queen 0.99
00:02:51.340 Sing about your lily-white lily Marlene 0.97
00:02:55.340 Beauty by the bushel, but the girl of the hour
00:02:59.340 Is a native North American prairie flag
00:03:03.340 Sailin' on Apache, Upa, Upa, Shoshone
00:03:06.340 Navajo, Comanche, Hopi, Eskimo, Creed
00:03:10.340 Tuscarora, Yankee, Peemaponga, O'nighton
00:03:15.340 Hello, my name is Ayanna Young, and I welcome you to Unlearn and Rewild.
00:03:26.620 Today we are speaking with the legendary artist, educator, and political activist, Buffy St. Marie.
00:03:33.720 Buffy was born to Cree parents on the Pia Pot Reservation in Saskatchewan, Canada.
00:03:38.360 She was orphaned as an infant and moved to Massachusetts,
00:03:41.240 where she would later get her degree in Eastern philosophy from the University of Massachusetts.
00:03:46.820 In the early 60s, Buffy played the coffeehouses of Greenwich Village,
00:03:50.660 where her music was so well-received that her career skyrocketed to international fame soon thereafter.
00:03:58.040 Almost 50 years after the release of her first album, It's My Way,
00:04:02.760 Buffy's new album, Power in the Blood, is filled with the same fierce messages,
00:04:07.820 eclecticism, and compassion, unique to this unstoppable woman.
00:04:12.860 Hello, Buffy. We are beyond blessed to have you on the show. Welcome.
00:04:17.380 Good, good, good. I love your title. It's so good. I'm learning. Rewild. Perfect.
00:04:22.740 You are an extremely creative person. Not only are you a musician and a poet in many different
00:04:28.680 genres, from rock and roll to protest music to love songs, but you're a painter as well.
00:04:34.900 I've heard you talk about how everyone has their own creative talent to share,
00:04:38.940 but often as children, we're put into schools that squelch that creativity.
00:04:43.640 So in these times of judgmental influence and distraction,
00:04:47.820 how can we foster creativity at every age?
00:04:50.980 And secondly, for the artist in the audience,
00:04:54.000 how can we authentically share our art
00:04:56.100 without falling into the trap of capitalist commodification
00:04:59.700 and fetishism found in the art world,
00:05:02.020 which you've been able to do so beautifully.
00:05:05.020 I don't know how well I've been able to do it, but I hear you.
00:05:07.980 It's definitely out there.
00:05:10.040 And you're right.
00:05:11.140 I think just about everybody is born talented.
00:05:13.420 And I don't think it's just the schools that discourage talent.
00:05:18.920 I think it's parents and advertising and cartoons and just about everything, you know.
00:05:26.440 And I think all of this comes back to, I mean, my belief is the best things in life are free, like breastfeeding, you know.
00:05:35.380 There's nobody making any money off it, therefore it's not in your face all the time in the media and in schools and in parental concerns.
00:05:45.440 And we're just living in a time where merchants are the kings.
00:05:49.760 Yes, that's what we're experiencing in our contemporary life is that money rules and coins, and it's a big monopoly game.
00:05:57.580 And we kind of know it, but we look the other way because we say, oh, no, it's probably just my own paranoia.
00:06:03.020 No, it's really out there.
00:06:04.120 It seems in history it's cyclical, and sometimes it was the church that were running things,
00:06:10.840 and other times it was the Inquisition, or in India sometimes it would be the merchant class.
00:06:18.020 And I have a degree in oriental philosophy, so I always come back to that when I'm thinking about our contemporary times, how just merchants, coins, merchandising, more, more, more money, exponential growth.
00:06:30.700 It's a crock, but it's a meme of our lives.
00:06:34.180 And yet, on the other hand, if you take any group of kids to the beach when they're four or five, they all make art, even though their parents probably don't even recognize it as art.
00:06:44.060 because the parents are up there sitting on the blanket, you know,
00:06:47.100 talking to each other and eating chips and thinking about their own daily struggles.
00:06:51.940 But here are all these kids, and they're using their imaginations,
00:06:55.380 and they're making pictures, and they're dancing, and nobody told them how.
00:06:58.800 They're hearing songs in their head.
00:07:00.800 They're making sculpture.
00:07:02.180 We don't call it sculpture.
00:07:03.420 We call it sandcastles.
00:07:04.760 But they're thinking about architecture, and they're using their imaginations,
00:07:08.800 and they're making up characters, you know, every day.
00:07:12.080 they're making up dramas and stories they're so creative and I guess you know you want to know
00:07:18.960 how to foster creativity at every age what I tell people is number one don't discourage your kids
00:07:24.580 by distracting them to anything that's going to take them you know to make them think that their
00:07:31.740 creativity isn't of equal value I think is the most valuable thing we have is our originality
00:07:36.740 and our creativity. But, you know, kids get distracted because of what their parents like
00:07:41.840 to do, you know, sports or, you know, money or, I don't know, a social life. Yet this creativity,
00:07:49.240 I don't think we lose it. I think we retain it even as adults. Just go into a room, go to the
00:07:55.380 store and buy four or five small canvases and some acrylic paint and put the different colors
00:08:01.180 of paint, you know, onto a plate or something. And then go into a room and turn the lights almost
00:08:06.300 all the way down so you can't really see what you're painting and just throw the paint up there.
00:08:11.160 That's true creativity. That's fun. That's discovery. That's being a bored child who's
00:08:16.620 going to find something to do with these paints or crayons or whatever you got. And I think that
00:08:23.240 that spark of creativity, once an adult remembers it, can really fill your life with a creative joy
00:08:30.700 that you thought was impossible.
00:08:33.240 I resonate with that a lot, you know,
00:08:35.120 reawakening that creative spark that might be lying dormant but isn't gone.
00:08:39.660 Yeah, I don't think it's ever gone.
00:08:41.820 You know, I suppose, you know, like puppies and kittens,
00:08:44.360 there's a certain learning period where we're,
00:08:46.880 when it's easiest for us to come up with that kind of stuff.
00:08:51.040 But I don't know, try it.
00:08:52.860 But, you know, you also asked about, you know,
00:08:54.760 how do you share your art without being totally commodified
00:08:58.720 and selling out, I think in my own case, I just do what I want to do.
00:09:03.440 I never expected to be a success at anything.
00:09:06.160 I got out of college, and I thought I was going to India to continue my studies.
00:09:10.160 I had a degree in oriental philosophy, but I stopped in Greenwich Village
00:09:13.600 just to see if anybody wanted to hear these songs I was writing all my life
00:09:19.840 and that I'd sung to my college dorm mates in college and little coffee houses.
00:09:25.620 And all of a sudden I had a career, so I was quite surprised by it.
00:09:29.080 So it's not as though I looked forward all my life to becoming a professional artist.
00:09:35.340 I mean, that's really how to get commodified.
00:09:38.340 And I just kind of lucked into it.
00:09:40.380 I just got lucky with things that came very natural to me.
00:09:43.540 So if you are an original, I think the thing to do is to treasure that.
00:09:48.420 And I think I've always thought very differently from my peers and from managers and agents
00:09:54.540 and record companies, they were all chasing whatever last month's hit was.
00:10:00.580 Oh, sing like Madonna, sing like Britney, sing like somebody else.
00:10:05.020 But to me, the only reason for getting on a stage in the first place
00:10:09.320 in my own personal life was that I wanted to demo the songs.
00:10:13.140 I would have loved it if somebody else could have done that
00:10:15.500 and I could have gone to India, but I was the only one who had the songs
00:10:18.480 and I thought the songs were valuable.
00:10:20.340 So that's where I was coming from.
00:10:21.660 I was coming from not, I want to be a singer because I like pretty dresses and makeup and want to be on TV.
00:10:27.760 It was, I'm a songwriter, how can I get these messages out?
00:10:31.960 And so I was a little more like a journalist than a pop star.
00:10:36.320 And I'm very surprised that I've had as much success as I've had.
00:10:40.180 I think you just do it, you know, you just do it.
00:10:43.100 Whatever it is that is original to you, don't, that's why you're there, is your originality.
00:10:50.340 not how well you can sing, you know, the latest top 20.
00:10:55.880 Yeah, it's that leap of faith, allowing that pure passion to bubble to the surface.
00:11:02.060 I feel that a lot in my life.
00:11:03.960 Yeah, do you?
00:11:04.620 Yeah, I do.
00:11:05.760 I, you know, I just leap not knowing what the outcome will be.
00:11:09.460 Yeah, like a child, like a kid who's, you know how sometimes a child will really need to be heard
00:11:14.960 and they'll have an idea and they just talk over you and they really need to be heard
00:11:19.800 or they're coloring their pictures and they don't want to be interrupted
00:11:23.340 or they're making their music and they're really, really happy.
00:11:26.860 Nobody has to tell them.
00:11:27.960 Nobody had to tell them how because they're playing.
00:11:31.080 So I'm a big believer that creativity in the first place, it begins with play.
00:11:37.560 So if you're attracted to do something, you know, you want to be a writer,
00:11:41.020 a journalist, a blogger, a painter, a dancer, whatever it is,
00:11:44.380 if you're attracted to it, that's your fuel.
00:11:47.200 That's your real fuel, is your own attraction to it.
00:11:50.820 If you don't want to do it, don't. 0.88
00:11:52.160 Go become a bean counter.
00:11:53.420 It's okay.
00:11:54.200 There's a lot of beans out there that need counting.
00:11:56.360 But if you have something original that you love to do,
00:11:59.500 give other people a chance to see that.
00:12:05.560 Not so that you'll have a career,
00:12:07.480 but because that's the only contribution we have is our originality, I think.
00:12:12.060 Little wheels spin and spin
00:12:14.520 And the big wheels turn around and around
00:12:17.040 Little wheels spin and spin, big wheel, turn round and round
00:12:20.940 Merry Christmas, jingle bells, Christ is born and the devil's in hell
00:12:33.840 Hearts they shrink, pockets swell, everybody know and nobody tell
00:12:38.080 Little wheels spin and spin, big wheel, turn round and round
00:12:42.680 Little wheels spin and spin, big wheel, turn round and round
00:12:46.840 Oh, the sins of Caesar's men, cry the pious citizens
00:12:51.000 Petty thieves, the five and tens, and the big wheel turn round, round 0.86
00:12:55.560 Little wheels spin and spin, big wheel turn round and round 0.67
00:13:00.080 Little wheels spin and spin, big wheel turn round and round
00:13:04.180 Blame the angels, blame the fates, blame the Jews or your sister Kate
00:13:08.260 Teach your children who to hate, and the big wheel turn round, round
00:13:12.660 Little Wheel, spin and spin, Big Wheel, turn around, around
00:13:17.320 Little Wheel, spin and spin, Big Wheel, turn around and around 0.97
00:13:21.160 Turn your back on weeds you've hold, Silly sinful sins you've sowed 0.99
00:13:25.340 Add your straw to the camel's load, Pray like hell when the world explode 0.99
00:13:29.740 Little Wheel, spin and spin, Big Wheel, turn around and around
00:13:34.320 Little Wheel, spin and spin, Big Wheel, turn around and around 0.98
00:13:38.360 Swing you girl, fiddly say, Later on the pipe or pay 0.91
00:13:42.340 Do-si-do, swing and sway, dead will dance on judgment day 0.96
00:13:46.860 Little wheel, spin and spin, big wheel, turn around and around
00:14:12.340 I've heard your excitement about this current movement towards global awareness.
00:14:25.120 When you came out with the song, Now That the Buffalo Are Gone in 1964, and My Country, Tis of Thy People You're Dying, in 1966, it was shocking.
00:14:35.740 It was shocking not only because you were speaking about the genocide of indigenous people that was being ignored and hidden from the mainstream, but speaking out as an indigenous person and a woman nonetheless was unheard of.
00:14:48.240 So even though there is this growing awareness that Native Americans were murdered, and their land stolen, and their children stolen from them and sent away to residential schools, there are still injustices burdening Native communities today.
00:15:03.300 For example, the uranium mining, or the tar sands in Alberta, Canada.
00:15:07.900 What are some tangible solutions towards justice for Native people?
00:15:12.060 And how do people of different races work through intergenerational trauma
00:15:16.200 and become allies towards a restorative future?
00:15:19.880 Wow, that was kind of a bunch of questions.
00:15:21.660 They were all good. I don't know where to start.
00:15:24.140 No, good questions. Good questions. Very good.
00:15:27.100 I would agree with you, you know, in saying that awareness alone about Native issues isn't enough.
00:15:32.760 You know, what can we actually do?
00:15:34.580 There's a lot that we can do, but I don't think that it's the kind of what you can do that your parents and teachers would give you as an assignment, so I'm not going to do that, because I think each person's life is different, and I think every day we have an opportunity to make something better, and if you're thinking about it like that, it automatically crosses racial lines anyway, because if you're making things better, in my opinion, you're making things better for everybody.
00:16:03.480 If you make things better for aboriginal people, you're basically on the level of fairness and correcting injustice.
00:16:13.540 That's good for everybody.
00:16:15.520 So in the first place, you want to get out of the race box.
00:16:18.680 I have a strange life.
00:16:19.940 You know, I'm in the big cities one day, you know, operating at a very high level.
00:16:24.780 Other times, I'm lost in a city.
00:16:26.680 Nobody knows who I am, and I'm just wandering around the streets.
00:16:29.740 Other times I'm out in some reserve or an indigenous area in, you know, Scandinavia or Australia or something.
00:16:36.220 So I get to see a lot of ways to do things, and I'm aware that people have different languages and different styles,
00:16:45.320 and people are at different degrees of ripeness.
00:16:49.300 So when I'm trying to do something through a song or a painting or something, I really know all these people.
00:16:55.980 You know, they are actually a part of my day-to-day history.
00:17:00.600 I know I've been with them.
00:17:01.900 I know them.
00:17:02.840 And so just the idea of communicating as an artist to the whole wide world,
00:17:08.280 you do it in a way that's very much a parallel to think globally, act locally.
00:17:14.780 And what I try to do is everything I can when something comes up.
00:17:19.640 You know, I try to be able to, you know, I see someplace that needs a check or that needs some money or needs some advice or different needs come up every day and you address them as you can.
00:17:33.720 But as a singer in a big concert or a global person writing something that I want to be kind of like a folk song in that it's going to last for generations and cross language barriers and country barriers, actually I'm singing or writing for the individual in each person.
00:17:56.420 I'm only singing to one person.
00:17:59.180 I'm not singing to 120,000 people all at the same time,
00:18:02.240 even though that's the reality of who shows up.
00:18:04.480 I'm still singing to the eachness of each person,
00:18:08.040 the person that is similar to me inside or different to me inside.
00:18:13.220 So it's funny how I think that's what artists do.
00:18:17.500 I think that's one of the characteristics of the work of many artists. 0.65
00:18:23.100 You know, if you want to think about white folks' art, think about the Renaissance, the sculptures and the paintings.
00:18:32.680 Some of them kind of don't travel out of 15th century Italy, and others of them really do. 0.51
00:18:39.640 And I think that if you look at the world kindly and you look at history kindly,
00:18:44.340 and when you're thinking about artists, many artists have managed to reach both the global and the individual
00:18:51.380 in whatever their work is.
00:18:54.320 And I think I've gotten lucky with a few songs that did that,
00:18:57.000 whether they were simple love songs or songs that addressed war and peace
00:19:00.760 or real complicated issues like My Country Tis of Thy People,
00:19:03.580 You're Dying and You Are Right.
00:19:04.900 That was the first time that the word genocide was used by an artist
00:19:09.780 in describing North America.
00:19:12.040 It's real important.
00:19:12.720 You know, I rewrote that song.
00:19:14.420 I rewrote it recently for Truth and Reconciliation in Canada.
00:19:18.300 I kind of localized it to Canadian issues, but it's basically the same thing.
00:19:23.520 Are you aware of the Doctrine of Discovery, by the way?
00:19:26.500 You read my mind.
00:19:27.620 I was just about to ask you about the Doctrine of Discovery,
00:19:31.420 because I listened to a lecture you gave at Arizona State University
00:19:34.920 where you explained that this genocide of Native people didn't stem from racism, but rather colonialism.
00:19:42.560 Yeah.
00:19:42.960 You know, some of the questions that you're asking, it kind of all can go back to the doctrine of discovery.
00:19:49.460 And I'm with a lot of non-Indian people with good hearts who ask, how could my ancestors ever have done this?
00:19:57.420 And they feel terribly guilty and quite challenged and confused as to how it could have happened.
00:20:04.780 And if you go back to the Doctrine of Discovery, the Doctrine of Discovery was put together in the 15th century with several overdubs by several popes, but it was done during the Inquisition.
00:20:17.840 I mean, that's a very important point.
00:20:20.640 The indigenous people of the world were discovered by colonials during the Inquisition.
00:20:27.820 Do you realize what white people were doing to white people in those days?
00:20:30.960 So for me, it's a very informative and somewhat comforting, in a funny way, thought to realize that the cruelties of the 15th century that came around the globe and wiped out indigenous people legally because they had not already been Christianized by some Christian power. 0.57
00:20:56.460 The Doctrine of Discovery said that if European explorers were exploring and came across a piece of land that was inhabited, 0.62
00:21:04.780 that if the people were not Christian, they were not supposed to be treated as human.
00:21:08.480 They were supposed to be enslaved or destroyed or converted.
00:21:15.380 But in any case, the racket said that they were to be controlled and exploited by the people who were running the church,
00:21:23.440 who, in my mind, were not Christians.
00:21:25.600 that was Christendom. Christendom is the racket that racketeers make out of, you know, the
00:21:33.220 teachings of Jesus. It has nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus. It's just another racket,
00:21:36.620 and it's been going on since before the Old Testament. And that's what happened to Indigenous 1.00
00:21:41.160 people. So if we remember that the doctrine of discovery is still in effect in both the United
00:21:49.460 States and Canada. And Johnson v. McIntosh, which is a law, it has been quoted during the last 10
00:21:58.620 years. So don't think that the doctrine of discovery, which gives colonialism from Europe
00:22:04.440 the legal upper hand to enslave, to exploit, to extract natural resources, everything, 0.99
00:22:11.960 it's all based in this stupid thing that needs to be expunged. So, you know, of course, we're 0.99
00:22:17.760 working. We're hoping that Pope Francis might be the one to finally expunge this. But who knows
00:22:23.460 whether it happens or not. The good news about the bad news is that more people are starting to
00:22:29.200 understand the position of indigenous people throughout the world because we're exposing
00:22:35.400 the doctrine of discovery to ordinary moms and pops. And it helps to answer that question,
00:22:41.640 how could my ancestors have done that? They were forced to do it. Henry VIII was making business
00:22:46.900 deals with the church at the same time as the Doctrine of Discovery. He went along with the 0.97
00:22:52.680 Doctrine of Discovery because it was a business deal for him. He had to seem as though he were
00:22:57.880 on the side of the political church at the time. So in the laws of the Doctrine of Discovery was
00:23:04.600 very powerful in Spain, in Italy, in the Netherlands, in France, in Portugal, and in
00:23:13.300 England. And those were the laws that were operative when Columbus was out sailing the
00:23:20.840 ocean blue and Cabot and Cartier and the rest of them were claiming indigenous land for the crowns
00:23:27.740 and churches of Europe. So I think that if people know that, there's a lot of forgiveness and
00:23:32.820 understanding of just the boneheadedness and the racketeering of those faraway times. And it also
00:23:39.080 gives people somewhere to go with it let's do away with the doctrine of discovery let's discuss it
00:23:44.080 let's let's let's see some eyebrows go up oh i never knew that you know to me it's all good
00:23:50.160 now that your big eyes are finally opened
00:23:54.800 now that you're wondering how must they feel meaning them that you've chased across america's
00:24:05.440 movie screens. Now that you're wondering, how can it be real that the ones you've called
00:24:15.620 colorful, noble, and proud in your school propaganda, they starve in their splendor.
00:24:25.580 You've asked for my comment, I simply will render
00:24:31.480 My country, tis of thy people, you're dying
00:24:46.060 Now that the long houses breed superstition
00:24:51.600 You force us to send our toddlers away to your schools where they're taught to despise their traditions, forbid them their languages, then further say that American history really began. 0.72
00:25:14.560 When Columbus sets sail out of Europe and stress that the nation of leeches that's conquered this land are the biggest and bravest and boldest and best.
00:25:31.120 And yet where in your history books is the tale
00:25:36.540 Of the genocide basic to this country's birth
00:25:41.720 Of the preachers who lied, how the Bill of Rights failed
00:25:47.340 How a nation of patriots returned to their earth
00:25:52.740 And where will it tell of the Liberty Bell
00:25:58.080 As it rang with a thud 1.00
00:26:00.720 Over kinzoa mud 1.00
00:26:03.460 And of brave Uncle Sam 1.00
00:26:06.480 In Alaska this year
00:26:08.960 My country, tis of thy people
00:26:13.240 You're dying
00:26:14.980 Hear how the bargain was made 1.00
00:26:23.440 For the West with her shivering children
00:26:27.780 in zero degrees. Blankets for your land, so the treaties attest. Oh, well, blankets for land 1.00
00:26:39.940 is a bargain indeed. And the blankets were those Uncle Sam had collected from smallpox disease,
00:26:51.200 Dying soldiers that day
00:26:54.200 And the tribes were wiped out
00:26:57.080 And the history books censored
00:26:59.900 A hundred years of your statesmen
00:27:02.900 Have felt it's better this way
00:27:05.720 Yet a few of the conquered
00:27:08.900 Have somehow survived 1.00
00:27:11.640 Their blood runs the redder
00:27:14.320 Though genes have been paled
00:27:17.180 From the Grand Canyon's caverns
00:27:20.300 To craven sad hills
00:27:22.980 The wounded, the losers
00:27:25.680 The robbed sing their tale
00:27:28.440 From Los Angeles County
00:27:31.080 To upstate New York 0.89
00:27:33.800 The white nation fattens 0.87
00:27:36.820 While others grow lean 0.70
00:27:39.640 Oh, the tricked and evicted
00:27:42.040 They know what I mean
00:27:44.920 My country, tis of thy people
00:27:49.420 You're dying
00:27:51.240 The past, it just crumbled
00:27:56.820 The future just threatens
00:27:59.840 Our lifeblood shut up 0.98
00:28:02.400 In your chemical tanks 0.97
00:28:05.500 And now here you come
00:28:08.740 Bill of sail in your hand
00:28:11.360 And surprise in your eyes
00:28:14.400 That we're lacking in thanks
00:28:17.180 For the blessings of civilization you've brought us
00:28:23.060 The lessons you've taught us
00:28:25.860 The ruin you've brought us
00:28:28.700 Oh, see what our trust in America's bought us
00:28:34.280 My country, tears of thy people you're dying 0.70
00:28:41.080 Now that the pride of the sires receives charity
00:28:51.340 Now that we're harmless and safe behind laws
00:28:59.340 Now that my life's to be known as your heritage
00:29:06.100 Now that even the graves have been robbed
00:29:13.200 Now that our own chosen way is a novelty
00:29:20.020 Hands on our hearts
00:29:23.020 We salute you, your victory 0.99
00:29:27.100 Choke on your blue, white and scarlet hypocrisy 0.99
00:29:33.380 Pitying the blindness that you've never seen 0.99
00:29:39.740 That the eagles of war whose wings lent you glory
00:29:45.780 They were never no more than carrion crows
00:29:52.460 Pushed the wrens from their nest
00:29:55.300 Stole their eggs, changed their story
00:29:58.540 The mockingbird sings it, it's all that she knows
00:30:04.940 What can I do, say a powerless view
00:30:10.200 With a lump in your throat and a tear in your eye
00:30:16.880 Can't you see that there's poverty's profiting you
00:30:23.480 My country, tis of thy people, you're dying
00:30:31.120 Yeah, absolutely incredible to view it through that lens and work through it.
00:30:42.600 And I'm wondering how you move through your feelings about the government,
00:30:47.320 especially after they blacklisted you from reaching people with your messages of truth.
00:30:52.280 How do you think the millennial generation can engage in a proactive relationship with the government
00:30:57.620 in these times of disruption and distrust?
00:31:02.180 One of the reasons for disruption and distrust is because we keep using the word the government.
00:31:07.600 It's not the government.
00:31:09.500 The United States government didn't blacklist me.
00:31:13.340 They didn't pass an act of Congress saying Buffy's music sucks or Buffy's music is too radical
00:31:19.100 or she tells the truth too much.
00:31:20.700 None of that.
00:31:21.440 No, it's not the government.
00:31:23.920 And people will sometimes say, well, didn't that make you hate the United States?
00:31:27.360 No.
00:31:28.160 And doesn't Harper make you hate Canada?
00:31:31.980 No, no.
00:31:33.940 What we elect is an administration. 0.84
00:31:36.820 It's a handful of cronies.
00:31:39.140 No matter how you look at it, that's what it is.
00:31:40.700 It's a handful of guys.
00:31:42.360 And they are hell-bent for success, according to whatever they're going for.
00:31:47.040 It's usually money and power.
00:31:48.240 It's not the government.
00:31:49.760 It's an administration.
00:31:51.440 And with Lyndon Johnson, who was a Democrat, and Richard Nixon, who was a Republican, each of them had guys in the back room making nasty phone calls.
00:32:02.060 That's how it's done.
00:32:03.100 It's not the government.
00:32:04.580 So the millennials, don't be afraid of these people who come on as if they're cobras.
00:32:09.240 They're not. 0.98
00:32:09.760 They're little worms. 1.00
00:32:11.100 They do nasty little things. 1.00
00:32:12.840 They do things like some teenage girl movie. 0.86
00:32:17.100 It's really nasty.
00:32:18.340 you know, it's word of mouth and it's personal networking. It's a good old boy thing, but it's
00:32:24.440 not Canada and it's not America. And they only last for a few years. Then we throw those rascals 0.72
00:32:31.640 out and we elect somebody else. I hope that that's helpful in people demythologizing the
00:32:38.520 government. The government is us. We elect somebody and then our lamest reaction is to elect somebody,
00:32:46.620 give him the keys to the cash register and power, and then forget about him.
00:32:51.740 It's too tempting.
00:32:53.560 That's how politicians turn into racketeers.
00:32:56.460 The game is kind of fixed, and what we need to do is vote, you know, elect, and follow up.
00:33:06.460 But you've got to keep on.
00:33:08.360 You've got to keep the pressure on.
00:33:10.060 You know, we think that our role stops when we vote, but no, it doesn't, unfortunately.
00:33:16.620 Kids were sent from heaven inside
00:33:31.180 To lead you to the future
00:33:33.060 Wrap their eyes in blindfolds
00:33:37.180 And still they'll find their way
00:33:39.180 Blind their lives with pills and lies
00:33:43.220 And still they find their vision 0.71
00:33:45.420 And soon they'll leave you to your yesterday
00:33:49.460 And they'll sing bye-bye scars of history
00:33:54.460 And bye-bye banker's trust
00:33:57.340 Aquarius is shining but the sun is one of us
00:34:03.220 And me, I don't want to go to the moon
00:34:06.920 I'm going to leave that moon alone
00:34:09.360 I just want to dance with the rose basil this summer
00:34:13.940 Yes, yes
00:34:17.100 The media is saturated
00:34:21.760 But the sweet grass still grows tall
00:34:24.460 And Jesse John Blackbeard talks to God
00:34:28.160 In Cleveland, Ohio
00:34:30.080 And Washington is joking 1.00
00:34:33.480 But the Navajos are not
00:34:36.420 And Mother Earth just keeps on giving 1.00
00:34:39.300 While we're ripening
00:34:41.500 I talked to seven congressmen
00:34:45.660 Their ears were filled with gold
00:34:48.540 At their grandfathers had started out of the black hills
00:34:54.280 And round and round the dance goes on
00:34:58.220 And the children are right on no more
00:35:00.420 And they will dream the dream my mother sends to them
00:35:06.080 And they'll sing bye-bye stars of history
00:35:09.720 And bye-bye bankers trust
00:35:12.400 Aquarius is shining honey
00:35:16.040 But the sun is one of us
00:35:18.280 And me, I don't wanna go to the moon
00:35:21.960 I'm gonna leave that moon alone
00:35:24.260 I just wanna dance with the rosebuds
00:35:27.700 Till this summer
00:35:29.140 Yes, yes, yes
00:35:32.060 Way from me, your brown-eyed man
00:35:39.720 guitar solo
00:36:09.720 And we'll sing bye-bye, stars of history
00:36:24.600 And bye-bye, bankers' trust
00:36:27.360 Aquarius is shining, honey
00:36:31.040 But the song is one of us
00:36:33.260 And me, I don't want to go in the boat
00:36:36.960 I'm gonna leave that moon alone
00:36:39.200 I just wanna dance with the rose per se
00:36:43.100 Yes, yes, yes
00:36:46.960 Wait for me, a bright night man
00:36:49.880 Yes, yes
00:36:52.820 Wait for me, a bright night man
00:37:06.960 many well-meaning non-native people romanticize indigeneity i heard an interview that you once
00:37:16.420 said that people wanted you to come on stage as some pocahontas figure earlier in your career
00:37:21.440 but you have shattered a one-dimensional perception of yourself and embody so many
00:37:28.280 dimensions as artist musician teacher philosopher activist farmer so in these times of great
00:37:36.720 displacement, whether from land or ancestry, what does it mean to be indigenous in today's
00:37:42.980 world? And do you think that people can grow to be indigenous to land that they don't historically
00:37:49.000 come from? I think people can become something like indigenous, but no, I don't know. You know,
00:37:56.060 I think we're kind of stretching the definition of indigenous a little too far. We need a different
00:38:01.500 word and I can't come up with it right now. I think that you can become effective and you
00:38:05.380 could become a supporter of the indigenous people who happened to come from there but you know there
00:38:10.940 are a lot of ramifications to identity including an indigenous identity i mean if you marry an
00:38:18.620 indigenous person and you know you've been married and raising a family for 40 years you're pretty
00:38:24.240 much a member of the group so so i'm not going to worry about the definition so much truly
00:38:30.360 indigenous people who come from colonialized nations. I mean, now we're starting to define
00:38:37.400 it a little more, you know, truly indigenous, you know, like aboriginal people from Australia
00:38:42.500 who are unfortunately sitting on the only land to which they have title and it has uranium. 0.96
00:38:48.920 I mean, they're screwed, you know, because they're indigenous. Now, if they had grown up in families, 0.97
00:38:55.500 Because in colonialized families, how you grow up is very, very important as to your worldview and your effectiveness in the world, in both show business and what we're talking about now, you know, contemporary issues of indigeneity. 0.54
00:39:11.560 Because, like, when I first went to Greenwich Village, I had never met a businessman. 0.93
00:39:15.780 I had never met a lawyer.
00:39:17.560 I was dealing with people who, for generations, had been colonial racketeers.
00:39:22.880 I mean, I would call them colonial racketeers.
00:39:25.160 other people would just say that they were very good at the profit motive, but they knew
00:39:29.280 how to exploit, they knew how to steal, they knew all about payola, in other words, they 0.75
00:39:37.980 were networked, and indigenous people traditionally are not. 1.00
00:39:42.200 So there's a lot to be said in contrast between someone who was coming from a non-business
00:39:49.780 family like myself, and most indigenous families would be coming from non-business families.
00:39:55.480 We don't know the rules of the game. It's like walking into a Vegas casino. You've never been
00:40:00.600 there. The deck is stacked against you, and you're going to lose because it's a setup. It's
00:40:05.620 meant to exploit you. It's not meant to be fair. It's a game to some people, you know, who grow up
00:40:12.440 like that. The whole idea of colonialism is, I mean, my motto, stay calm and decolonize.
00:40:20.220 We're all living in this colonial, ever ripening, ever changing, what would you call it? Like a
00:40:26.900 hallucination. I mean, money itself is a hallucination. Of itself, it has no value, you know?
00:40:32.240 Yeah, people are traveling across the globe at such speed these days,
00:40:36.040 and moving from countryside to city, and it's like a diaspora of sorts. 0.78
00:40:41.560 It kind of is, but that's not necessarily all bad.
00:40:44.740 See, I think travel is good for anybody, and I'm really happy with certain Canadian reserves,
00:40:50.680 whereby they take the junior and senior classes traveling to places like Africa and New Zealand,
00:40:56.080 and they take them to other indigenous areas to see the world through other indigenous eyes,
00:41:01.760 and how wonderful that is.
00:41:03.620 In my own case, even though I come from a heartfelt position of indigeneity,
00:41:09.960 I love the big world, too, and I have certainly profited in both the brain, the heart, the pockets, everything, by traveling.
00:41:17.160 It's fun. It makes you smarter.
00:41:19.540 And yet our reserves in Canada, especially in my own family, the people who've stayed on the reserves are very, very dear to us.
00:41:27.440 They haven't had travel, and we have, but they have had community life in a very special way, too, which, you know, hopefully they share with us.
00:41:37.320 So I like it all.
00:41:38.700 I say travel as much as you can, learn as much as you can,
00:41:41.320 read as much as you can, listen to all the music you can.
00:41:44.940 Who knows, we might only live once.
00:41:55.920 Hold your head up, lift the top of your mind,
00:41:59.800 put your eyes on the earth, lift your heart to your own home planet.
00:42:04.560 What do you see, what is your attitude 0.99
00:42:08.760 Are you here to improve, oh damn it 0.99
00:42:12.380 Look right now, and you will see 0.99
00:42:15.880 We're only here by the skin of our teeth
00:42:19.280 As it is, so take heart and take care
00:42:22.200 Of your late with life and oh
00:42:24.900 Oh, carry it on
00:42:27.100 We're saying
00:42:28.020 Oh, carry it on
00:42:30.740 Keep playing
00:42:31.840 Oh, carry it on
00:42:34.560 I'm praying
00:42:35.540 Oh, carry it on
00:42:38.980 It ain't money that makes the world go round
00:42:48.480 It's only temporary confusion
00:42:51.440 It ain't the events that make the people strong
00:42:56.040 It's the opposite illusion
00:42:58.940 Look right now, and you will see they're only here by the skin, or they're just as it is.
00:43:07.320 So take heart and take care of your liquid life.
00:43:11.600 And now I'll carry it on.
00:43:14.060 Keep saying, I'll carry it on.
00:43:17.560 And playing, I'll carry it on.
00:43:21.400 And praying, I'll carry it on.
00:43:25.300 Look right now, and you'll see where you're only here by the skin of our teeth as it is.
00:43:33.560 So take heart and take care of your link with life.
00:43:37.460 It's beautiful if you've got the sense to take care of your source of perfection.
00:43:44.960 Mother Nature, she's the daughter of God and the source of all protection.
00:43:51.360 Look right now
00:43:53.280 And you'll see she's only here 1.00
00:43:57.140 By the skin of her teeth as it is
00:43:59.640 So take heart and take care
00:44:01.460 Of your length and blood
00:44:05.580 Oh, oh, carry it on
00:44:08.320 Keep saying
00:44:09.560 Oh, oh, carry it on
00:44:11.900 And playing
00:44:13.220 Oh, oh, carry it on
00:44:15.500 Keep on playing
00:44:16.800 Oh, oh, carry it on
00:44:19.780 I love your spirit and non-judgmental, non-shaming openness to the world.
00:44:46.900 Thank you.
00:44:47.480 And I'm wondering, because of your connection to your ancestral cosmology and beliefs, and because you studied Eastern philosophy, I'm wondering what are some of the most powerful spiritual wisdoms or takeaways that help guide you to live your life so fully?
00:45:02.440 You know, there's not one single thing that I would mention. Oriental philosophy, what it got me was a big smile, because I was so thrilled to know that other people besides myself loved the Creator.
00:45:20.160 When I discovered Oriental philosophy, it showed me that minds were greater than what I was finding in my own little neighborhood.
00:45:28.840 I found Oriental philosophy when I was in high school.
00:45:31.300 And there wasn't anybody who had ever heard the word reincarnation.
00:45:35.660 Not that I believe in it, I don't.
00:45:37.440 But after the Beatles came along, there was a big fad for people to study pseudo-Hinduism.
00:45:43.000 So I've kind of seen it come and go. 0.89
00:45:45.220 So what I learned from studying all these religions was that, you know what?
00:45:50.740 originality in how you perceive the creator comes directly from your circumstances of where you live
00:45:58.140 on the planet and who you ran into and what you read and all of that but all these people agree
00:46:05.180 that we are continually ripening and if i have a religion or a spiritual or you know kind of
00:46:12.800 heartfelt concept to impart to people that kind of comes from this area of my brain it's that we're
00:46:20.460 ripening. It's like it says in my song, We Are Circling, and what it implies in Carry It On,
00:46:26.320 that other song that's also on Power in the Blood, which is my new album, it has to do with ripening.
00:46:31.960 We are ripening, ripening together. Babies, elders, bozos, and angels. This is how we grow. This is
00:46:38.980 how we get to know. And I think that every single one of us, even the people we don't like, is,
00:46:44.760 whether we like it or not evolving getting better learning we're all different and we're all
00:46:50.520 starting from each one from our own original place and we all go at different rates but i don't think
00:46:58.080 any of us is very ripe i think if you say that you know i have a positive attitude and a humility
00:47:03.900 it's because i i think that we're all really kindergarten babies on this planet i think we're
00:47:08.300 just beginning and just like a second grader will look down his nose at a first grader and say
00:47:14.400 eh, she spills her milk, I don't, right?
00:47:17.220 Or the first grader will look down her nose at a kindergarten kid and say,
00:47:21.980 eh, and they wet their pants, I don't, you know?
00:47:24.780 We're always looking down our noses at somebody who's five minutes younger than we are,
00:47:30.200 and there's no profit in it at all.
00:47:32.460 You might as well realize that, you know, we're all evolving, and it's very exciting.
00:47:37.880 Mine is, and yours is, and so is even that girl neither one of us likes.
00:47:41.500 So, I don't know, I just think that's the reality of life,
00:47:45.540 and that being the case, it doesn't pay to put your nose too far in the air.
00:47:49.140 God is alive.
00:48:19.140 Life is afoot. Magic never died. God never sickened. Many poor men lied. Many sick men lied. Magic never weakened. Magic never hid. Magic always ruled. God is afoot. God never died.
00:48:41.900 God was ruler
00:48:45.540 Though his funeral lengthened
00:48:47.940 Though his mourners thickened
00:48:49.960 Magic never fled
00:48:51.540 Though his shrouds were hoisted
00:48:53.640 The naked God did live
00:48:55.540 Though his words were twisted
00:48:57.560 The naked magic thrived
00:48:59.900 Though his death was published
00:49:01.900 Round and round the world
00:49:03.900 The heart did not believe
00:49:05.920 Many hurt men wondered
00:49:10.080 Many struck men bled, magic never faltered, magic always led
00:49:16.060 Many stones were rolled, but God would not lie down
00:49:20.320 Many wild men lied, many fat men listened
00:49:24.260 Though they offered stones, magic still was fed
00:49:28.520 Though they locked their coffers, God was always served
00:49:33.720 Magic is afoot, God rules
00:49:36.560 Alive is afoot, alive is in command
00:49:39.980 Many weak men hungered, many strong men thrived
00:49:44.400 Though they boasted solitude, God was at their side
00:49:49.380 Nor the dreamer in his cell, nor the captain on the hill
00:49:53.660 Magic is alive, though his death was pardoned
00:49:57.800 Round and round the world, the heart would not believe
00:50:02.200 Though laws were carved in marble, they could not shelter men
00:50:07.660 Though altars built in parliaments, they could not order men
00:50:11.780 Police arrested magic, and magic went with them
00:50:15.960 For magic loves the hungry
00:50:19.280 But magic would not tarry
00:50:23.940 It moves from arm to arm
00:50:26.880 It would not stay with them
00:50:28.880 Magic is a foot, it cannot come to harm
00:50:33.200 It rests in an empty palm, it spawns in an empty mind
00:50:37.460 But magic is no instrument, magic is the end
00:50:41.700 Many men drove magic, but magic stayed behind
00:50:47.540 Many strong men lied, they only passed through magic
00:50:52.720 And out the other side, many weak men lied
00:50:57.140 They came to God in secret
00:50:59.160 And though they left him nourished
00:51:01.440 They would not tell who healed
00:51:03.580 Though mountains dashed before them
00:51:06.000 They said that God was dead
00:51:07.880 Though his shrouds were hoisted
00:51:10.140 The naked God did live
00:51:12.500 This I mean to whisper to my mind
00:51:15.700 This I mean to laugh within my mind
00:51:18.840 This I mean my mind to serve till service is
00:51:22.340 But magic moving through the world
00:51:24.660 And mind itself is magic
00:51:26.540 Coursing through the flesh, and flesh itself is magic
00:51:30.520 Dancing on a clock, and time itself
00:51:34.300 The magic length of God
00:51:37.580 God.
00:52:07.580 Slide, magic, guard, slide, magic.
00:52:37.580 I'd like to end this conversation
00:52:40.540 by asking you about your new album
00:52:42.620 Power in the Blood
00:52:43.520 what are you wanting to inspire in people
00:52:46.660 who engage with your music
00:52:48.240 the whole song we are circling
00:52:50.900 to me is like a mantra
00:52:52.300 it's like a deliberate mantra
00:52:53.900 it's real simple but I don't know
00:52:56.360 it's what I really mean and what I really say
00:52:58.560 I try to kind of make those little pearls
00:53:00.840 of wisdom stickable
00:53:02.360 especially in a little campfire song like that
00:53:04.700 and the idea of
00:53:06.260 I really believe in the positivity that's coming through in the songs, but I also clearly do see some of the negative portraits that I present in songs.
00:53:18.740 And none of it's deliberate, it's just kind of the way I see it and what's happening in my own daily life.
00:53:24.540 I mean, I'll go through an airport and all kinds of things will happen.
00:53:27.100 There'll be all kinds of joys and bummers, you know, every five minutes is something new.
00:53:31.460 you know you see somebody who you wish you could know and then you see somebody and you hope you
00:53:36.960 don't sit next to them and sure enough you do and it turns out you have things in common so i don't
00:53:41.640 know life's a trip you think i would have come up with something better than that in the last 50
00:53:46.580 years but keep your nose on the joy trail and share what you can share when you can share it
00:53:51.860 and don't be afraid to take a bath and take a nap and don't burn out you know that's kind of my
00:53:57.100 advice. It's very, very easy when you really do care and when your eyes are being opened to
00:54:02.340 some of the justices and injustices of the world. It's really tempting to just have an emotional
00:54:08.440 reaction and burnout and then go nowhere. No, no, your observations are probably true.
00:54:16.840 You know, go slow and careful. If you really care, come up with a little strategy of how you can
00:54:22.940 be happy and share that happiness and make things better for yourself and others. It's really a lot
00:54:29.380 of fun. Well, Buffy, thank you so much for your time, your wisdom, and your spirit. You are in
00:54:37.020 the truest sense an inspiration, and it's exhilarating to hear you speak. So thank you
00:54:43.020 again for being on Unlearn and Rewild. Oh, my pleasure. My pleasure, Anna. And again,
00:54:48.720 And congratulations on your great title, Unlearn and Rewild.
00:54:52.020 I'm going to be thinking about that.
00:54:53.340 Well, wonderful.
00:54:54.600 And I got one for you. 1.00
00:54:55.280 Stay calm and decolonize. 1.00
00:54:57.140 I'm keeping to that. 0.99
00:54:58.560 Okay.
00:54:58.980 Have a great day.
00:54:59.840 Enjoy your day, Buffy.
00:55:01.100 Thank you again.
00:55:01.880 Thank you.
00:55:02.520 Bye.
00:55:02.700 We are circling, circling together
00:55:18.800 We are singing, singing our heart song
00:55:23.340 This is family, this is unity
00:55:27.260 This is celebration, this is sacred
00:55:31.660 We are spiraling, spiraling together
00:55:40.080 Onward, inward, creature to creation
00:55:44.260 Holy mystery, mother earth, childbirth
00:55:48.760 This is mother nature, this is sacred
00:55:52.940 We are circling, circling together
00:56:01.260 We are singing, singing a heart song
00:56:05.740 This is family, this is unity
00:56:09.760 This is celebration, this is sacred
00:56:14.240 We are spinning, spinning all together
00:56:22.540 We are singing over the rainbow
00:56:26.820 This is harmony, this is community
00:56:30.940 This is celebration, this is sacred
00:56:35.440 We are circling, circling together
00:56:43.740 We are singing, singing our hearts
00:56:48.000 This is family, this is unity
00:56:52.200 This is celebration, this is sacred
00:56:56.500 We are ripening, ripening together
00:57:05.040 Babies, elders, bozos and angels
00:57:09.440 This is how we grow, this is how we get to know
00:57:13.660 This is celebration, this is sacred
00:57:22.200 We are circling, circling together
00:57:26.220 We are singing, singing our hearts all
00:57:30.740 This is family, this is unity
00:57:34.680 This is celebration, this is sacred
00:57:39.200 We are circling, circling together
00:57:47.540 See ya, boy
00:57:49.900 See ya, boy
00:57:51.400 See ya, girl
00:57:51.960 See ya, see ya, see ya
00:57:53.540 See ya, boy
00:57:54.100 See ya, boy
00:57:56.040 See ya, baby
00:57:56.960 See ya, baby
00:58:17.540 Thank you for listening to Unlearn and Rewild.
00:58:21.560 This is Ayana Young.
00:58:23.360 The music you heard today was all by Buffy St. Marie.
00:58:26.700 The songs included Native North American Child,
00:58:30.800 Little Wheel Spin and Spin,
00:58:33.060 My Country, Tis of Thy People You're Dying,
00:58:36.120 Generation, Carry It On,
00:58:39.380 God is Alive, Magic is Afoot,
00:58:42.020 and We Are Circling.
00:58:43.340 Our theme music is Like a River by Kate Wolfe.
00:58:47.540 And thank you to our editor, Nicole West, and producer, March Young.
00:59:17.540 Sweet smell of pines
00:59:26.660 Tall western cedar
00:59:28.400 Drifting on the wind
00:59:32.200 Through the mountains like a river
00:59:34.380 Sweet smell of pines
00:59:39.340 Tall western cedar
00:59:41.040 Drifting on the wind
00:59:44.440 Through the mountains like a river
00:59:47.140 I love you