For The Wild - CHIEF CALEEN SISK on the Fight for Free and Wild Salmon Rivers ⧸47

00:00:00.000 The silence is broken by somebody crying, trying to be heard, never a word, always the attitude, sort out your own, always alone, wishing for something the world is denying.

00:00:25.000 Out in the wilderness somebody's crying

00:00:30.020 Somebody wishing for something to happen

00:00:43.200 Wishing to tell, wishing to help

00:00:46.640 Someone was listening, someone who cared

00:00:50.440 Never despaired

00:00:52.320 Someone to lean on and someone to trust.

00:00:57.180 Who needs your assistance and finds your disguise.

00:01:04.100 Hello and welcome to For the Wild podcast. I'm Ayanna Young.

00:01:09.300 In today's episode, we have the honor of speaking with Chief Kaleen Sisk of the Winnemum Wintu tribe.

00:01:15.920 Through this interview, we hope to garner your support for the Winnemum Wintu Salmon Restoration Project.

00:01:21.100 Please visit GoFundMe.com slash SalmonWillRun to donate.

00:01:28.460 Chief Sisk is the spiritual leader and tribal chief of the Winnemum Wintu tribe,

00:01:33.780 who practice their traditional culture and ceremonies in their territory along the McLeod River watershed in Northern California.

00:01:42.100 Since assuming leadership responsibilities in 2000,

00:01:45.720 Kaleen has focused on maintaining the cultural and religious traditions of the tribe.

00:01:50.040 She advocates for California salmon restoration, healthy, undammed watersheds, and the human rights to water.

00:01:58.060 She has received international honors as a tireless sacred site protector

00:02:02.060 and currently leads the tribe's resistance against the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation's proposal to raise Shastadam 18 feet

00:02:09.880 and inundate or damage more than 40 sacred sites.

00:02:13.320 She is also currently leading her tribe's efforts to work with Maori and federal fish biologists to return wild Chinook salmon from New Zealand to the McLeod River.

00:02:24.800 In doing so, she advocates for the inclusion of traditional ecological knowledge in federal, state, and local environmental research and planning.

00:02:33.400 Kaleen is an internationally known speaker on traditional tribal and spiritual issues.

00:02:38.180 Having spoken on diverse topics such as spiritual medicine ways, the spirit of water, global warming, sacred sites protection, and the responsibility of tribal people to honor their tribal lifeway.

00:02:52.180 Kelleen is also a leading voice in raising awareness of the poor human rights conditions suffered by federally unrecognized tribes and unrepresented indigenous peoples around the world.

00:03:02.500 She is a regular speaker at the United Nations Permanent Forum on Indigenous Issues in New York, where she has campaigned for the UN to study the plight of federally unrecognized tribes in the United States.

00:03:14.180 She is also the Spiritual and Environmental Commissioner for ENLACE Continental, an international network of indigenous women.

00:03:23.400 For more than 30 years, Kelleen was mentored and taught in traditional healing and winimum culture by her late great aunt, Florence Jones.

00:03:32.500 who was the tribe's spiritual leader for 68 years.

00:03:36.580 Kaleen's traditional teachings and trainings comes from an unbroken line of leadership

00:03:40.920 of the Winnemum-Wintu tribe.

00:03:43.620 Strongly rooted in her spirituality and her family,

00:03:46.820 Kaleen cares deeply for her Winnemum people and for oppressed people around the world.

00:03:52.420 Kaleen received her BA from Chico State University, California in 1975

00:03:56.540 and received her teaching credentials from CSU Chico in 1976.

00:04:02.500 I would like to start off by kind of imagining the networks of wild water in California

00:04:28.120 and how they looked much different 500 years ago.

00:04:33.280 And when we domesticate water, we lose touch with something essential

00:04:37.400 because rivers are the lifeblood of an entire ecologies and cultures.

00:04:43.960 And as indigenous cultures have been colonized,

00:04:46.900 so have the waters and landscapes they stem from.

00:04:50.140 So I'm wondering if you could start us off by telling us

00:04:53.280 how Wintu life has always centered around the Winnemum or the McLeod River watershed

00:04:59.400 and how this has been stifled by the colonization of water.

00:05:04.760 The rivers in California, the rivers and mainly the Sacramento River,

00:05:12.600 was a very large, meandering river, meaning that it was cleaning and supplying water

00:05:22.140 across the valley floor so that there would be no place on that system that actually was

00:05:31.920 left out.

00:05:33.400 This part of what the development of California did not take into consideration.

00:05:40.700 When people moved here, maybe they didn't know that rivers meandered, or maybe they

00:05:46.780 didn't know that there was just enough water for everything.

00:05:50.460 the way that the Creator put it down from Mount Shasta, the sacred waters coming off of the mountain,

00:05:56.480 to the ocean, that there was always a finite of water that would run

00:06:02.420 and would take that purity and life-giving force all the way down to the ocean and into that system.

00:06:10.880 You know, the Winnemem people, our creation story, begins on Mount Shasta, and there's

00:06:25.120 a sacred spring there that we say that was the doorway that we came out of that sacred

00:06:30.580 fire inside, and so did all of our spirit beings who took form, you know, the trees

00:06:36.440 and the fish and the birds and deer and bear all things that were living took form to take care of

00:06:44.460 the land that the creator had made for us everybody had a job to do but in that sense you know the

00:06:52.180 Winnemum the name Winnemum means middle river people middle water people and so we always go

00:07:00.240 back to that spring and we sing at that doorway and put down the prayers and ask for more blessings

00:07:07.140 for future generations to come. And so our ties have not been broken from the practice and the

00:07:13.720 traditions of going to that spring, unlike other folks have kind of veered away from

00:07:20.720 recognizing the differences that are happening to them and around them. Yet the minimum, you know,

00:07:28.860 We've been pretty lucky in that our leadership is unbroken from the time of the civilization coming to now where our memory isn't lost, our directions are not lost, our history, our traditions and medicines are still in place.

00:07:49.420 Those are all the things that keep guiding us to what to do next in spite of the changes that have occurred in modern civilization.

00:07:58.860 similar to our recognition of ecosystems as porous and interconnected we must examine

00:08:08.780 industrial projects within the context of their connections to the greater ecological system

00:08:15.180 California and its management of water is a clear example of how dominant culture denies this

00:08:22.440 holistic reality and instead views the environmental impacts of industry and

00:08:28.180 development with a reductionist lens. So with that in mind, I was hoping that you could

00:08:34.960 elucidate Proposition 1, the proposed raising of the Shasta Dam and the, quote, California water

00:08:42.100 fix, previously the Bay Delta conservation plan, and the fictitious boundaries between these

00:08:50.320 projects, how they all fit together? From the position that we're at in looking at this water

00:08:57.680 fix that Governor Brown is pushing very hard, and so are the water districts pushing this

00:09:04.080 water fix, even though they would like to separate them out as individual projects,

00:09:09.980 one being the delta tunnels that'll set in 150 feet into the delta surface ground, groundwater,

00:09:19.240 40-foot tunnels, two of them, into the ground for 30 miles without any kind of science that can

00:09:28.680 tell us what that's going to do because it's never been done before. So there's no science

00:09:33.960 available, but yet they're willing to risk doing that project in a estuary that is so delicate

00:09:42.080 and is the largest one on the Pacific coast. The site's reservoir, which Prop 1 is most likely to

00:09:48.840 fund because they look at that as a wet water project. It is an off-stream storage reservoir

00:09:57.000 that can only be filled by the waters from the Sacramento River. It has no other inlets from

00:10:04.820 any streams, live streams, maybe some runoff water in the winter, but most of it will be

00:10:11.280 filled by the Sacramento River. That in itself is a problem in that the Sacramento River

00:10:19.440 doesn't provide enough water to be putting some in storage along the way. The third part of that

00:10:27.520 is the raising of Shasta Dam. It's been the keystone of California's water fix from the

00:10:33.180 very beginning, and it's still the keystone of this new water fix project. Back in the 40s,

00:10:41.280 Before building that dam, they had the deal with my tribe, Winnemum Wintu people, 0.84

00:10:47.660 and they passed a 1941 Indian Land Acquisition Act law that primarily took our land, 0.65

00:10:57.900 made some grim promises, which they've never fulfilled,

00:11:02.780 and now they want to raise the dam 18 and a half feet higher.

00:11:07.620 You know, they've done about $15 billion worth of studies over the years to conclude that this is the best water fix project for California.

00:11:20.700 The basis of this is the water needed in the desert areas of California and the 5 million people who are moving to California and the new communities that will be needed.

00:11:32.940 At the same time, my tribe is going through a second devastation for this state of California in that raising the dam 18 and a half feet will back the water up over 40 of our sacred sites that we still access today.

00:11:53.140 And the promises that were made in 1941 have never been accomplished by the Bureau of Reclamation, nor do they intend to satisfy the 1941 Act before they raise the dam again.

00:12:12.160 And we have, you know, tried to talk to Dianne Feinstein, Senator Feinstein, about these issues with no resolve.

00:12:19.760 So this water fix is not the answer to the water needs in California.

00:12:26.080 You know, they're looking at California as had been in a drought for all that time.

00:12:31.200 Now Governor Brown says it's not in drought now because we have a big snowpack.

00:12:37.040 But that snowpack, you know, in our lives, we know snowpack is not the determiner of whether or not we're in drought.

00:12:45.080 We're still in drought because of the groundwater systems have been depleted, and there's no effort to recharge the groundwater systems and no federal regulations or county laws that are assisting to do this.

00:13:02.660 So there's many, many problems with this idea of raising the lake.

00:13:10.040 And even now, dams are a pretty archaic way of trying to save water.

00:13:18.220 So it's not a system that we can support, nor do we think it's the most viable way to get water to the people who need it in California.

00:13:29.260 It would make more sense to put that kind of money into the infrastructures of all of these old towns

00:13:35.820 and replace the plumbing that is leaking billions of gallons of water every day.

00:13:41.700 it's incredible to hear the extent that this dominant culture will go to

00:14:05.280 move water from the north to the thirsty south and industrial agriculture. It's quite incredible.

00:14:14.320 And like you were saying, there's no scientific evidence that this is safe for humans, for

00:14:23.000 other species, for entire ecosystems. One thing that you had mentioned was that

00:14:28.620 you had spoken to Miss Feinstein. And I guess I'm wondering what is or what has been the extent of

00:14:37.740 the inclusion of indigenous communities within discussions regarding these impending projects

00:14:43.420 and their environmental impact assessments? And do you foresee a way in which the California

00:14:49.720 government can be held more accountable for their tireless disregard for indigenous people's lands

00:14:58.200 and waters. I know it's, it's a very complicated issue that only gets more complicated if you try

00:15:10.740 to talk to the government about, you know, all of their exotic, I call them exotic water laws

00:15:17.500 that protect the rights of people who hold those water laws. But the majority of the California

00:15:24.960 of people, the population, have no water rights other than, you know, they passed the human

00:15:32.100 right to water not too long ago, you know, about three, four years ago now, a human right

00:15:38.540 to water.

00:15:39.800 Basically, everybody else does not have a say-so in these kinds of things.

00:15:45.280 I mean, even the twin tunnels, as much as people have tried to get that on the ballot

00:15:50.920 so that the population could have a voice in whether or not that project would be done,

00:15:57.800 have failed to get the Twin Tunnels on the ballot for the California voters.

00:16:03.500 Instead, we are now told that as soon as September,

00:16:09.380 that the water districts who would be paying something like $15 or $16 billion

00:16:17.700 dollars to do this project are deciding whether or not they're going to pay that amount to get

00:16:24.000 this project done because the state doesn't have that kind of money and the feds are not going to

00:16:29.120 be putting that into the water fix in california so it's kind of these giant corporations you know

00:16:35.520 we say water districts but they're mega giant corporations who are charging every community

00:16:41.700 every town, every city, top dollar for delivering water to those places. And in some places like

00:16:50.180 Alpaw and Seville, the water that they deliver goes through pipes and goes through a system

00:16:57.500 that is not filtering that water so that whatever comes out of their taps is not usable by the

00:17:04.040 people. And so there are major problems throughout California about this water fix project. But in

00:17:11.980 reality, it looks like mega water district and water users who do not want to change,

00:17:20.100 like Resnick Farms, who are growing almonds in the desert, which takes 30 gallons per nut

00:17:26.140 to produce, is continuing to do that, continuing to plant trees. And through this, you know,

00:17:34.040 five or seven year drought, they have not lost a profit. They have soared in profits. And so,

00:17:41.760 you know, while other people have been restricted on water use, and California's population was

00:17:49.360 supposed to reduce water use by 25% a couple years ago, the mega farms were exempt from having to

00:17:59.660 use less water at all. And there's no restrictions on the kinds of crops that are grown in places

00:18:08.220 where it shouldn't be grown. In the desert, they're growing crops now that are filtering

00:18:16.980 through soils that are not built for growing. And the selenium is coming up and now the land

00:18:24.140 has become fallow. So now they're being paid to retire their farmland because it's fallow land

00:18:30.780 and they're keeping their water rights, which is, you know, going to be the new blue gold.

00:18:38.660 They're shifting out of farming and into energy because those fallow lands, like in Westland

00:18:47.000 Water District cases, you know, that's before the court. They were let off the hook for paying

00:18:52.580 400 and some odd thousand dollars. And they retired that land and built solar panel farm

00:18:59.860 on 600 acres. But even in doing that kind of thing, it's like, while solar seems to be

00:19:08.680 one of the answers that people are looking for, anytime you do anything mega,

00:19:13.800 it doesn't turn out to be a good thing. And I can see already that the mega solar farms

00:19:20.940 are causing more unbalance in nature to occur because those mega solar farms are catching the

00:19:31.940 birds on fire. And they call them streamers. So you can get a job in the solar farm going around

00:19:38.480 picking up dead birds that caught on fire by flying over the solar panels. And for California,

00:19:45.600 this is a big mistake in that California is a flyway for many, many birds, little tiny birds,

00:19:54.120 that as soon as they hit those solar panel farms, they ignite. And so we have to be careful about,

00:20:02.400 going overboard with something that seems like it's an answer. And to me, the bigger answer would

00:20:10.360 be to work to get people and communities off the grid. Solar panels on your house or in a community

00:20:19.300 would be different where there's trees and wind and different than a solar field that's generating

00:20:27.060 heat so hot that it catches them on fire. You know, there are many other solutions to this

00:20:34.020 issue than Governor Brown is looking at, or Dianne Feinstein seems to be too rooted in with

00:20:42.180 Resnick's and some of the other mega businesses like Westlands to be able to talk with us or any

00:20:50.460 of the other Restore the Delta campaign people who are, you know, just general population who

00:20:56.520 don't like the idea of the big water fix and it's going to ruin the real farmers. I mean,

00:21:02.220 we have real farmers in California and that's where I think people are sliding by in saying

00:21:08.960 the farmers feed America because the mega farms, they're GMO farmers. They produce eight crops

00:21:17.440 and the real farmers are the ones that are struggling every day to make ends meet.

00:21:24.540 They don't qualify for the discounts or supplements to farmers.

00:21:30.320 They're the ones who are paying higher prices for their water to even water their farms.

00:21:35.780 And so, you know, we have to get this straight in California that, and probably because, you know,

00:21:41.640 California always is the gateway to other states doing something as crazy as, you know,

00:21:49.620 multiple thousands of acres of solar farming in place of getting communities off the grid.

00:21:57.720 If you get communities off the grid, then the same old bankers are not collecting all the money

00:22:03.640 for the same product being shipped everywhere. It's really incredible to imagine that these

00:22:11.600 farms, these mega farms that have gone fallow, are now being turned into these solar farms that are

00:22:18.840 also using their water rights to make more money by commodifying the water. And I'm guessing

00:22:25.520 charging other people to use this water on their lands or moving the water to somewhere else and

00:22:31.220 making money off that. Is that correct? That's right. That's right. Because even the Westlands

00:22:37.940 Water District farmers, some of them were farmers before Westlands Water District existed and got

00:22:45.080 absorbed into that big association. But they still pay more for their water than Westlands wants to

00:22:53.700 recognize for these little farmers. It's just horrifying that this commodification of every

00:23:02.500 resource is so extreme. And I think what you're talking about with these mega, even quote,

00:23:09.400 renewable projects, it questions this idea of just plugging in this very resource, extensive

00:23:18.280 life into a renewable outlet. But what is that actually doing? It's not actually forcing people

00:23:23.300 to question using resources at all. It's just finding a new way to continue these lifestyles

00:23:30.320 that are dense in how much they're taking. And it also kind of makes me think about this colonial

00:23:37.220 capitalist culture and how it will stop at nothing to control water because water in its

00:23:45.520 deepest essence is life. So to control water is to control life itself. What do you believe are

00:23:53.320 the spiritual consequences of the privatization and the corporate control of water? And then

00:24:01.880 how do you see us being able to move this dominant culture towards a paradigm

00:24:06.500 that once again views water as sacred? There's a lot of issues that counterplay against

00:24:14.420 making good sense about making good decisions, protection for life, right? Here in California,

00:24:22.860 we are the, what did I hear in Paris? Paris COP21 says, the representatives from California

00:24:30.620 is the seventh largest economy in the world. California itself, separate from the United

00:24:36.960 States, is an economy system power in the world. Indigenous peoples of California,

00:24:46.140 minority groups, ethnic groups, small communities are not the accent of what California is about

00:24:55.440 in its power system. So that's why you have communities like Seville and Alpaw and so many

00:25:02.300 other places not being taken care of with their water issues. But also, even now, you know,

00:25:11.720 the population itself does not really know how bad the water filtration systems are. I mean,

00:25:19.140 I live up here in Northern California, where we're the first recipients of the water off the

00:25:24.400 mountain and so we drink out of the spring we drink out of we know what water tastes like we

00:25:32.160 drink live water and when I go to Sacramento or Davis or San Francisco or any other place down

00:25:39.960 south I can smell the chlorine in the water I can taste the it's bad water you know I can taste the

00:25:50.000 difference in it and it's so bad that in some places that you know I carry my water with me

00:25:55.280 because I don't want to have to drink that but I see people living there and their kids are drinking

00:26:00.340 that and they're bathing in it and they don't really know any other way to do anything that

00:26:07.840 that water is is told to them to be good water but overall I think waking the people up in

00:26:17.920 California to the fact that the water districts do not have the power to deliver good water.

00:26:25.640 And it's the mega water companies that are making these rules. And I believe it's for staying

00:26:33.840 the seventh largest economic power in the world. So we have the governor and many of the legislators

00:26:43.740 or representatives of the people who are more swayed by Resnick Farms, Westlands Water District,

00:26:51.920 Metropolitan Water, Kern Valley Bank, you know, Water Bank, all of these powers have clout because

00:27:01.380 they got, I mean, just like right now, they're waiting for these water districts to decide

00:27:07.980 whether or not they're going to fund Governor Brown's water fix. If the water districts decide

00:27:14.300 not to, then it's not going to be done. If they decide to do it, then it probably will be done

00:27:20.800 no matter what the population says. And in that sense, they're going to destroy one of the largest

00:27:28.100 estuaries. And nobody's going to know this for 20 years down the road after it's destroyed

00:27:34.260 of the complications that it's going to cause in the systems of fish, birds, everything up and

00:27:42.040 down the coast. And in order to wake people up, you know, our tribe has been trying to bring

00:27:49.620 young people up to the river so they can actually see what a real river looks like. When it comes

00:27:54.560 off the mountain, how clear and crystal clear you can see to the bottom. You can feel it alive.

00:28:02.640 You know, you can taste it and let them know that this is how these rivers used to run all the way to the delta.

00:28:11.860 Now they don't because for some reason this society, this modernization,

00:28:18.000 has decided that it's okay to dump everything and anything into the waterways

00:28:22.820 and think that that's fine, nothing's going to happen.

00:28:27.100 For some reason they do that.

00:28:28.780 whereas the old way was that this water is precious this water is life you could take

00:28:35.260 care of this water you don't you know you don't go throwing things in there you pray to this water

00:28:41.260 but this day and age you know hardly anybody prays to the water i mean even in the catholic

00:28:48.000 church you know they have holy water that they put you know i i don't know what they do with it

00:28:53.740 but they use it in church, and that might be the only place that I see water used in a religious

00:29:02.620 way, even though I don't think they're praying to the water, but they're using it in a religious

00:29:08.400 way. Every other place, water is a commodity. Water is, you know, taken for granted. It's just

00:29:15.100 here, you know, and in whatever condition, the people are taught that once it's filtered, it's

00:29:22.160 it's fine. But what we're trying to do is wake the people up to the realities of what water is.

00:29:29.140 Dr. Emoto from Japan did some scientific experiments about whether or not water reacted

00:29:36.520 to people or voices or sounds, and he proved that it does. And so, you know, it takes a scientific

00:29:45.860 study like that, whereas winimums have been singing to water as its basis of existence,

00:29:53.280 and we continue to do that. But now, you know, we're in a situation where we need the world to

00:30:00.080 be singing to water. We need people to recognize that precious commodity. And one of the things

00:30:06.940 that we thought when the drought was here, and I believe we're still in drought, was that drought

00:30:12.980 is our teacher, too, that that makes people recognize what they're dependent upon. And we're

00:30:22.080 not dependent upon a capitalistic society. Our life is dependent upon water. And the more people

00:30:29.640 who can recognize those kinds of issues, the better off we'll be. And the more people who can

00:30:35.960 start doing their part, and I'm not just talking about saving water, you know, turning the tap off

00:30:42.440 when you're not brushing your teeth and, you know, filling your dishwasher full before you run it.

00:30:47.500 All of those things are helpful.

00:30:48.700 But what I'm talking about is that people can recognize the significance of those drops of water

00:30:57.840 and start changing their ideas about what they do.

00:31:03.800 Because, you know, in our area, I see people, new people moving into our area,

00:31:10.020 and pretty soon they have a lawn and pretty soon I see them out there with their little ATVs with

00:31:16.340 their their sprayers on and they're putting Roundup everywhere along the fence line along

00:31:24.540 their mailboxes and it's next to the gutter that goes into the stream you know even at a water

00:31:32.000 meeting I asked this one lady I said well you know I'm trying to do a campaign against Roundup 1.00

00:31:37.180 She goes, oh, I use Roundup, but I only use one gallon.

00:31:41.520 It's like, well, 30,000 people bought one gallon of Roundup.

00:31:45.560 That's 30,000 gallons of Roundup that's going into our water system right here.

00:31:50.520 That's what we don't understand as a population, that everything we do, you know, we have organic farms.

00:31:58.360 We want organic foods, so we have the organic farm days and all that kind of stuff.

00:32:04.140 but we still don't want an organic community. And that's the basis. Let's stop using the

00:32:11.460 antibacteria soaps that are going right out into. Why do you need it? If you're going to wash your

00:32:18.140 hands, then you don't need that. But there are many, many things that people can do once they

00:32:24.520 recognize the significance of water, because water is not being discovered every day. It's not like,

00:32:32.800 oh yeah we got a new glacier of water coming out that's going to fill all these lakes up

00:32:38.480 you know there is a finite of water and there is a finite that we share of a freshwater sea

00:32:45.300 underneath us that encircles the world and so people have to think bigger you know and i don't

00:32:51.420 know if they can without either science or a change in religious ways of thinking or you know

00:32:59.500 seeing water or maybe just struggling enough to recognize the difference.

00:33:16.940 Take me back to the mountain, I'm sure.

00:33:23.840 Our impression still lays there on its floor.

00:33:29.500 On these marks we will begin

00:33:37.080 And I will call this to the wind

00:33:44.660 What have we really got to lose?

00:33:52.380 If you fight the good fight

00:33:58.180 You'll come out roost

00:34:00.680 We'll soon be two fighters giving in

00:34:08.420 To rolling waters on our mountain

00:34:22.380 Yes, thank you so much for taking us through these very complex systems in California to

00:34:34.800 help us understand where the water is moving, who owns it, why it is controlled the way it is.

00:34:43.840 It's intense to learn about. And thank you so much for also bringing up when people say,

00:34:49.520 well, I'm just one person, but it's not just about one person. Like you said, if one person

00:34:55.480 uses one gallon of Roundup, but it's not just that one gallon, it's 30,000, it's 60,000,

00:35:00.900 it's millions of gallons of Roundup or antibacterial soap or some kind of toxins

00:35:05.760 or even flushing our toilets. I mean, there's so many ways in which water has just kind of been

00:35:11.080 desanctified. So I'd like to now turn the conversation over to salmon. You had mentioned

00:35:18.040 fish a few times and I've learned that the centrality of salmon within cultural narratives

00:35:24.800 and traditions and cosmologies is widespread throughout Cascadia or the Pacific Northwest

00:35:32.780 of Turtle Island. They are a testament to the interconnectedness of all life. You know,

00:35:39.480 they dissolve the boundaries between marine freshwater and forest systems and they nourish

00:35:45.760 entire webs of organisms. Yet, despite their irreplaceable ecological and cultural significance,

00:35:54.280 they've suffered from many angles, whether it's industrial logging or dam construction,

00:36:00.580 overfishing, warmer waters even due to climate change, etc. And their decline has been experienced

00:36:07.520 throughout their historic range. I know you understand this tale intimately, and I was hoping

00:36:13.920 that you could take us through the story of the Chinook salmon of the Winnemum and tell us how

00:36:20.560 it's unique compared to other stories of other populations and genetic lineages of Pacific salmon.

00:36:29.200 What we believe here in California is that the estuary that we're talking about

00:36:34.340 is probably the lowest one on the chain on the ocean where salmon use. Even historically these

00:36:43.300 salmon have you know when they were first coming into their life here on earth started and they

00:36:50.780 started going north on the pacific coast but the salmon you know in our in our life way

00:36:57.360 we believe that when we came out of the mountain you know creator came and said that he had

00:37:04.700 prepared a world out there that needed to be tended and that there were many many things that

00:37:11.140 needed to be done and that he had hoped that all the spirit forms would take their place and take

00:37:17.500 care of things so that it would be in balance it will always be in balance and so as everything

00:37:23.240 went out some of them declared to be the black oak and white oak and blue oak you know all of

00:37:28.780 the oaks went out and then all of the birds went out and the hummingbird and eagle and buzzard they

00:37:34.300 all had jobs to do even the little fly and the mosquito and the beetles they all went out all

00:37:41.920 the bugs and spiders went out and then all of the little nocturnal ones said we're going to take

00:37:48.040 care of the night and they all went out the possum and skunk and all of them they all went out and

00:37:53.920 then the ones that were in the water the otters and the seals and the sea lions they all went out

00:37:58.360 too. And finally, towards the end of it, after all of the helper beings, everybody went out.

00:38:05.120 There was this one little spirit being still left, walking around the fire and walking around the

00:38:10.200 fire inside that sacred boyumpuyuk, where that fire was. And finally, he says, I'm going to be

00:38:17.460 human. And he went out the door of the spring and went running down the river. And the creator

00:38:25.260 thought to himself you know that one's going to need a lot of help and so he called back the fire

00:38:30.680 spirit and the mountain spirit and the waters and asked them to take care of this little one

00:38:37.720 to give them advice to be there to help them think clearly and straight and then the salmon came back

00:38:44.940 and said oh that spirit being that human is going to need a voice and so we're going to give up our

00:38:52.580 voice so that they can be able to communicate. And so since that time, Winnemums believe that

00:39:00.920 we have this blessing from salmon and that because of that, we should always speak up

00:39:07.440 for salmon. We should always take care of the salmon. You know, the salmon are a magical

00:39:18.020 fish to us they're a spirit being that is always giving in every stage of its life it's giving

00:39:25.380 you know as eggs they're they're fish bait as fry you know they're fish food as adults they're

00:39:33.800 they're food they're always giving for everything and they only do things in a sacred manner

00:39:40.600 they only swim up the river to spawn one time and when they spawn they move the rocks around

00:39:49.780 they turn the rocks over they clean the river the whole way all of the debris goes down river

00:39:55.080 and when they do that the temperatures of the water changes and then they lay their eggs and

00:40:01.180 wherever they lay their eggs those eggs when they hatch they'll come back to that same place

00:40:06.640 but when they hatch when the eggs finally hatch all of the adult salmon have already died

00:40:14.240 and they're feeding the bears and the wolves and the trees and the grasses and the insects

00:40:20.520 they're still giving but when the little eggs hatch and they become young fry they swim with

00:40:28.840 all the fish and trout and their turtles and salamanders everything that's in the water

00:40:34.420 Then all of a sudden, they decide maybe they're five or six, maybe eight inches long, and they decide that it's time to go south.

00:40:46.780 Who tells them that?

00:40:48.200 Because the trout are not going to go, and the sucker fish, they're not going.

00:40:52.420 Nobody's going, but they start drifting south.

00:40:55.400 They start going downstream, downstream.

00:40:57.720 They keep going downstream, and they come into another river, and they still keep going downstream.

00:41:03.240 and they come into another river but they still keep going when they finally get to

00:41:08.940 almost to the delta they realize that it's salt water and that they are not salt water fish they're

00:41:17.740 freshwater fish at the time but instead of saying you know what we made a mistake we better just

00:41:23.320 shimmy on back up to our spawning grounds and stay there you know where the trout are where we know

00:41:29.380 everything is. But they don't. They stay in that estuary until they change into saltwater fish.

00:41:37.820 And when they change into saltwater fish, they swim out into the ocean and they're out there

00:41:42.880 for four to seven years. Anymore, the way that fish have been treated, most people would argue

00:41:49.220 that they're only out there for three or four years. But traditionally, they could be out there

00:41:53.980 for eight years. Nowadays, it's changing. But they're out there in the ocean, and they're still

00:41:59.800 giving. They're still feeding the orcas. They're still feeding everything that's in their path.

00:42:05.220 They're always giving all the time. And in that time span, they're swimming with all the other

00:42:12.700 fish, you know, not just from the Cloud River. After swimming 300 miles to the ocean, they are

00:42:19.840 swimming with all the other salmon up and down the pacific coast then at a certain point in time

00:42:27.220 seems like there comes a message to them that says they have to go back to their spawning ground

00:42:32.720 so those salmon find the exact same estuary it can't be the trinity um can't be the klamath

00:42:41.200 estuary it can't be you know a columbia estuary it has to be the sacramento estuary for mcleod

00:42:48.380 river salmon and they come into that estuary as as adults sometimes a long time ago they would be

00:42:55.320 like a hundred pound adults but nowadays they're you know it's said to be big if they're 45 pounds

00:43:02.140 but of course that's like half the size of what they used to be but in that change they come back

00:43:08.560 in and they have to change back into freshwater fish so the estuary is very important and the

00:43:15.480 delta smelt is their longtime partners. You know, those delta smelt have been in the estuary for

00:43:22.200 over 6,000 years, but almost extinct now. But they're their buddies. They're the ones who help

00:43:28.260 the salmon transition to be able to go upstream again. Even the jaws of the salmon can change

00:43:34.960 during that time that they're getting ready to come upstream. And when they're ready, they start

00:43:40.420 swimming upstream and as they go it doesn't matter how hard it is or how long it seems the

00:43:46.560 American River comes in and they can't say you know let's just go right up here on the American

00:43:52.380 River and we're going to spawn there they can't do that because that's not their river so they

00:43:57.100 keep going and they bypass you know the Feather River and they bypass Butte Creek and they bypass

00:44:02.920 all of these other tributaries that are running into the Sacramento River

00:44:06.920 until they get all the way up to the McLeod River.

00:44:11.720 And then again, they find the spawning ground that they had,

00:44:15.980 and there's many little trebutaries coming off of the McLeod

00:44:19.160 that some of them are from Tarantial Creek, some of them are from Hawkins Creek,

00:44:24.100 some of them go all the way up to Big Springs, and they spawn there.

00:44:28.700 And then again, once they spawn, they all die and it starts all over again.

00:44:34.040 But that's why the Winnemem believe that they are creators talking to them.

00:44:40.720 They're still connected because they only do things one time,

00:44:44.400 and each generation has to have that connection.

00:44:48.000 When the fish stop doing what they were told by creator,

00:44:51.820 that connection will have been broken,

00:44:53.840 and there won't be any hope for our water systems.

00:44:57.020 So right now, our fish that were taken from our river swim in New Zealand

00:45:01.640 because of fish hatchery.

00:45:03.120 we are working very hard to bring them back because we believe they will help bring balance

00:45:09.860 back to the river systems here in california but not only that they will change many things

00:45:18.720 in the ocean as they come back into that system because in new zealand our fish are still wild

00:45:25.100 wild winter run chinook are over there from our river and when we bring them back

00:45:32.980 the water systems will wake up. And so will the people. The people will wake up. Because our hope

00:45:41.640 is that, you know, we have this chance to do this. And the people must wake up to the water systems

00:45:51.060 and start participating and start being satisfied with the kind of life structure that is given to

00:45:58.980 them. And, you know, kind of relax from this capitalistic view of having more and more and

00:46:06.020 more and having more disposable things to getting more happy. And I think when the fish come back

00:46:15.180 and the waters are good, then people can be happy again. They don't have to have all of this

00:46:20.040 outside stimulation that creates all the junk in the world.

00:46:28.980 it's a pretty incredible story of finding your salmon in New Zealand would you tell us a little

00:46:39.980 bit more about how did the salmon end up there how did you find out and what is the process

00:46:45.680 you're in right now to bring them back especially as the Winnumumwintu are considered an unrecognized

00:46:53.260 tribe in California how is that affecting this whole process as well

00:46:58.940 We have always had this story, a story that tells us that when Livingston Stone came to our river,

00:47:06.480 you know, he was a fish biologist from the East Coast.

00:47:09.760 He didn't really know anything about Pacific salmon and didn't know that they died after spawning.

00:47:16.140 He thought they were like the Atlantic salmon that don't.

00:47:18.920 The tribal people, the Winnemum Wintu people, were very disappointed in this approach that was being taken

00:47:25.640 Because what you have to put it in the frame, too, is that since gold was discovered in the first policy of California was to exterminate all the Indians, so there was a war against, well, not quite a war, but like a Holocaust happening against all California Indians up and down the state.

00:47:45.000 They were after the gold, but there was no gold found on the McLeod.

00:47:50.060 But when Livingston Stone and Spencer Baird from the U.S. Fisheries came to do this project they had,

00:47:59.220 chose the McLeod River because of the number of fish that was in that river,

00:48:05.580 brought that program there to where they were going to build this hatchery. 0.83

00:48:10.240 The Winnem and Wintu people at that time did a war dance against that event happening. 0.93

00:48:18.220 And they also knew that they could be shot on sight for doing that. 1.00

00:48:22.760 But they did anyway. 1.00

00:48:24.600 But Livingston Stone was smart enough to know that he probably needed those Indians to help him with this fish hatchery. 0.99

00:48:32.440 And so he made some deals with them.

00:48:35.700 but before those deals were made the medicine people got together to pray about what was

00:48:42.900 happening to this fish to our salmon what was going to happen to them they did a ceremony

00:48:48.280 and we were told that some of those fish are going to go through the ice waterfall in mount shasta

00:48:54.020 and there they will wait for you we didn't really know what that meant because at the time

00:49:00.480 that Livingston Zone was there, there were thousands of fish, hundreds of thousands of fish

00:49:06.620 in the river. And so they built the hatchery and about the end of the 1880s, 1890s, there was a

00:49:17.100 fish crash in the world. And so they sent these salmon eggs from the Baird hatchery around the

00:49:23.220 world, even to Mississippi, but they didn't survive. They didn't survive anywhere except

00:49:29.600 in New Zealand. New Zealand did not have any salmon. This is the first salmon they had and

00:49:36.080 it took. So they established themselves in New Zealand by one, there were eggs that were shipped

00:49:44.560 around the world and to New Zealand, several times to New Zealand for them to get started.

00:49:51.460 Since that time, we didn't really know about how successful it was or not until in 19,

00:49:58.140 I mean, not 19, but 2000, we heard that they were going to raise Shasta Lake again, Shasta Dam.

00:50:05.580 And so in 2004, we waged a war dance against the United States for trying to build this dam higher and flood more of our sacred sites.

00:50:16.660 And during that dance, these old time salmon songs came in and we sang them and we danced them.

00:50:23.680 And then following that dance, one of the purposes of the war dance on the dam was to tell the world what's happening here to the indigenous peoples.

00:50:35.320 And during that time, we wanted to make sure that, you know, we had a voice right after that.

00:50:43.040 We heard from New Zealand and they said that they had our salmon and that did we want them back?

00:50:49.080 and so from that point on it's been this process of getting our salmon back from New Zealand

00:50:57.400 we went there we danced for the salmon we have a documentary called Dancing Salmon Home that tells

00:51:04.780 a lot of the history and our connection to the salmon and our our new family and friends of

00:51:11.280 Maori people the Naitahu people and the ones who are still willing to help us bring our salmon home

00:51:18.800 We have a good stance.

00:51:44.460 We've done all of the preparatory work

00:51:47.060 And we actually brought the Maori people and the fish and game person from New Zealand to meet with NOAA and the Hupa Tribal Council because they're the closest federally recognized Indian fishery.

00:52:04.220 and thought we had a deal back in 2009 and 10. Since then, the Bureau of Reclamation has taken

00:52:12.720 this charge on, one, building the dam higher, while the other part is supposed to be restoring

00:52:19.300 the salmon. And so there's a little bit of conflict there, but they say there's none.

00:52:23.920 So we are still working to convince the Bureau of Reclamation that we need our salmon from New

00:52:33.100 Zealand, the real wild winter run Chinook from New Zealand to come back to our river.

00:52:41.560 They, on the other hand, seem like, you know, this stems from a lawsuit on the biop of the

00:52:48.520 salmon above rim dams is the only way to restore the salmon. They want to use the hatchery fish.

00:52:56.940 The hatchery fish is what fills the system of the Sacramento River at this time. There are

00:53:02.820 very, very, very few wild salmon. If any, I would say there would be wild salmon coming from the

00:53:09.460 Trinity water that is released down the Sacramento River. That would be probably a Trinity salmon

00:53:16.360 coming up the Sacramento looking for the Trinity River. I believe that the bottlenecking of the

00:53:23.540 hatchery projects and programs over the years have pretty much destroyed the salmon systems

00:53:32.000 and now they're worried about you know straying and all this and truck and haul and everything

00:53:38.340 they do seems to really harm the salmon even more and so what we're proposing is that the

00:53:47.320 the salmon biologists make way for traditional ecological knowledge of salmon and let us

00:53:58.740 lead them while they can document the changes. Because what if in their studies, the salmon

00:54:07.200 need more than what they think? Because they look at salmon, they need cold water,

00:54:13.420 they need food, they need spawning beds. But what if they need a drumbeat on the river? What if they

00:54:21.740 need a fire on the river? What if they need that dancer singing on the river? Because that's how

00:54:27.620 it was in the old day is that those fires would be set on the river because we believe that the

00:54:33.800 salmon travel at night they follow the stars not just the smell of the water but they have sound

00:54:40.020 systems that science has not discovered yet or they don't even know to ask the question

00:54:47.060 and so there's so many things that will change and in the bigger picture I think the younger

00:54:55.100 generations that are coming up you know when we do the salmon from the delta all the way to the

00:55:01.220 McLeod river in the upper waters it's a 500 mile swim for salmon most of us can't really picture

00:55:08.980 500 river miles to get to the spawning grounds we are going to wake up the people I think that

00:55:18.060 that prayer when people start recognizing the salmon thinking about them and and learning more

00:55:25.120 and more and more about them they're not going to be able to not think that they're the spiritual

00:55:30.440 fish that they're the miracle fish that they're the ones who know about this water system and

00:55:36.900 they're the ones that we need because they've been missing to the to the high mountain the

00:55:42.460 highest mountain where our water runs from and we need to get them back and so the run for salmon

00:55:50.340 we're going in our second year run for salmon and we're going to do four runs because that's how

00:55:56.840 many runs that there used to be of salmon four times a year they'd come up the river and in that

00:56:03.660 putting that down from the delta, from the Ohlone land on Sigorte, where the salmon swim into the

00:56:12.660 bay, they swim into the delta right there, that we put down those dances and those songs right

00:56:18.480 there at the delta, and then all the way up to where they should return. And so in this struggle,

00:56:25.440 I hope that the Bureau of Reclamation also comes along and starts thinking about maybe

00:56:32.280 there are other ways of doing these kinds of things. Maybe the fish biologists only know

00:56:38.280 about hatchery fish salmon. Maybe they don't really know about wild salmon. But we still

00:56:43.860 have the stories of wild salmon. We still have the songs of wild salmon. We are still

00:56:48.340 the salmon culture. You know, even though they've taken our salmon away by building

00:56:54.540 Shasta Dam, and they've taken our land away by building Shasta Dam. And we believe that

00:57:01.000 whatever happens to the salmon happens to us. The salmon all lost their home on the McLeod River.

00:57:07.560 And so did we. We all lost our homes on the McLeod River. We don't own anything on the

00:57:13.360 McLeod River. When the salmon come home to the McLeod River, maybe we can come home too.

00:57:19.620 But for right now, you know, our only hope is to do the right thing for the salmon,

00:57:25.100 even if we don't benefit anything, that we will fulfill our obligations for voice

00:57:32.720 and that the salmon will be home and everything changes.

00:57:38.920 Everything changes wherever they go.

00:57:41.000 They're like a life source, a life support system for everything in that area.

00:57:45.960 Thank you so much, Chief Sisk, for going through that deeply moving story with us and explaining how the salmon are a life force in this region, especially.

00:58:09.960 And I just want to, again, lead the audience to gofundme.com slash salmonwillrun because this project needs support. And I think that it's really beyond important to get out of this reductionist scientific mindset that this science has kind of become the new religion that, you know, if it's not scientifically proven, then it doesn't matter.

00:58:34.560 Like what you were saying, fish biologists, they know one portion, but they're not using these practices and experiences of traditional ecological knowledge.

00:58:45.660 And I just really resonated with what you were saying, that what if also the salmon needs our prayers, our song, our dance, our drumming, that there's a reciprocal relationship and it's not just so cut and dry in this very scientific mindset.

00:59:04.560 I have one more question for you.

00:59:14.060 This is about Mount Shasta, the location of Mount Shasta,

00:59:18.880 and I think it's important to bring up further ways

00:59:22.440 in which colonization persists in the modern day,

00:59:25.800 not only directly through oppressive relations

00:59:28.460 with government and industry,

00:59:30.360 but also through more insidious manners

00:59:33.060 such as the commodification of spirituality and Mount Shasta is known internationally as a place

00:59:40.520 of tremendous spiritual power with you know this strong energetic pull you know drawing thousands

00:59:47.040 of visitors each year. Shasta has an abundance of new age retreats with tours of sacred sites

00:59:54.540 and guided vision quests and meditations etc and they're often absent of any recognition

01:00:00.780 that the original caretakers of this sacred land

01:00:03.920 are still present, you know, the Winnemawintu tribe.

01:00:07.400 So it seems that often central

01:00:09.820 to this culturally appropriative spirituality

01:00:13.200 is an emphasis on personal gratification

01:00:16.080 rather than a living relationship

01:00:18.460 or reciprocity with the land.

01:00:20.740 The way I see it, if you uphold the land as sacred,

01:00:24.340 then you also have a duty to protect and care for it.

01:00:28.200 So I'd love to hear your thoughts

01:00:30.100 regarding the consequences of cultural appropriative spirituality, especially in this

01:00:36.560 Mecca, this Mount Shasta area? Yeah. You know, as we go back in time and people can say,

01:00:46.500 oh yeah, that's a long time. I've been doing that for a long time. But in the 60s was this

01:00:54.760 changed nationwide of citizenship and all of these things like rights right the civil rights

01:01:01.820 everybody has a right to this and that and everything but towards the end of the 60s and

01:01:08.560 into the 70s was this sacred place seeking the hippies were formed and the big searches for

01:01:18.720 whatever they were missing inside from their own churches began. And in the 70s, we had entered a

01:01:27.300 lawsuit to defend Mount Shasta against a ski lodge that was proposed to happen very, very close and

01:01:36.040 maybe even on top of our sacred spring. And during that lawsuit, we were challenged to prove that

01:01:45.060 that was our sacred spring because one of the things that worked against us was is that there

01:01:51.320 were no village sites there there were not any arrowheads there there was nothing there and we

01:01:59.120 said there's nothing there because it's such a sacred place that you don't leave anything there

01:02:06.600 and so then we had to result back to it being a sacred place and once we did that we did win

01:02:17.960 the suit against the Forest Service. Claire Cummings was our attorney at the time and

01:02:23.440 we actually stopped them from building that ski lodge and building those things right on top of 0.96

01:02:30.760 our spring. But the other thing that happened is that we exposed our spring to being sacred.

01:02:39.300 And once that happened in the 70s, it continued to roll over. People were seeking out the sacred

01:02:46.320 places of the world. And then, you know, Mount Shasta has taken a position in that light and

01:02:53.900 people started showing up. Well, in the 80s, the government decided that we were no longer

01:03:00.360 a federally recognized Indian tribe. And so we are struggling too. You know, we have to say that

01:03:07.840 we were once 14,000 people along the McLeod River and maybe even more. As our salmon, we're in the

01:03:14.540 hundreds of thousands on the McLeod River, but are no more. So at that point in time, at the turn of

01:03:21.960 the century, there were only 395 Winnum Wintu people left, you know, my grandparents being

01:03:29.660 those people that came out of the Holocaust and outran the bullets or outsmarted those feasts

01:03:39.760 that they call them peacemaking feasts. And we survived. But we were very low in number,

01:03:47.760 And we're still very low in number, and the government doesn't recognize us as being Indian people or tribal people.

01:03:55.100 But that doesn't stop us. 0.70

01:03:56.800 They have never been on our side ever, so we don't expect them to be doing good things for us now.

01:04:04.120 But we are always opposed in protecting and doing the right things for our sacred places, for our waters, our water systems that have to be done.

01:04:17.040 And so Mount Shasta, what we call Boyan Puyuk, you know, they changed all the names of everything.

01:04:24.700 So people get confused, like we're going to Mount Shasta, not Boyan Puyuk, but it's the same thing.

01:04:31.000 So we're still here.

01:04:33.360 We take care of that mountain.

01:04:36.360 We have the songs.

01:04:37.820 We have that.

01:04:38.540 And I say that because we had languages already here that for thousands of years was the vibration system throughout that part of the trees and the land and the rocks.

01:04:53.980 That was the harmony that kept the hummingbirds and the bats and all the living things there in place, too.

01:05:02.840 but now because it's the public recreation area now and they try to say that they're managing it

01:05:11.620 but we say you know you guys have messed it up severely because there are not as many bats there

01:05:19.140 is not as many birds there are no deer hardly ever come to the meadow anymore no rabbits you

01:05:25.360 know you let so many people onto that place that it it can't live it's dying and they don't see

01:05:34.680 that every summer on Mount Shasta they allow at least 30,000 people to visit maybe even more

01:05:42.100 and those people like to bring things with them like crystals or rose petals or coconuts or tiki

01:05:50.200 dolls and put it in that sacred spring it's like this is an artesian spring that is so sensitive

01:05:57.020 it bubbles up from the ground it's not a source that runs off the mountain it comes up from the

01:06:02.260 ground and everything that you put in there it's like you shouldn't even get in it you can't get

01:06:08.940 in it so fragile but these people don't know any better i guess and that you can't tell them

01:06:15.620 they don't believe you and it's their right it's their spring too it's their religion too

01:06:22.340 and so it's like but they don't know how to take care of it they only want it for themselves

01:06:27.840 they only want this for them that's it not any other generations coming up because for us

01:06:35.760 our children can't even go to this place until they're at least 15 16 years old when they're

01:06:41.760 old enough and their spirit beings are well enough to be there and do the right thing when they're

01:06:48.580 there but these people you know they have no guidelines they have no restrictions they only

01:06:54.460 are takers of the water of whatever it is and they think that they're blessing this place

01:07:03.000 you know by leaving these crystals or or leaving whatever it is that tie things in the trees

01:07:09.100 and it's like you cannot bless the blesser you can't leave things and bless them it doesn't

01:07:19.900 work that way you know wherever that comes from you need to take that back to wherever that comes

01:07:25.420 from because this is such a pristine sacred place this is not where you stack rocks this is not

01:07:32.280 where you make medicine wheels this is not where you tie all colors of the tobacco ties in the

01:07:37.840 trees you don't leave anything here but that's so hard for them to get without getting upset

01:07:45.600 but it's a struggle that we have all the time with the forest service to say you know right now

01:07:51.580 I am overjoyed that there's so much snow on the mountain that there's going to be very few people

01:07:58.280 getting in on the meadow earlier than years in the past.

01:08:05.500 This is a blessing, but I feel like they should not even open the meadow

01:08:10.580 when it's like this because the ground is so pristine and so sensitive and so soft

01:08:16.900 that let the elements take care of itself.

01:08:20.960 Let it have its time on its own.

01:08:23.680 Let the bees and the birds and bats and the hummingbirds come in. 0.55

01:08:28.280 freely without the people right there. But that's so hard to get across to anybody. It's like

01:08:35.340 they have a right, but they have no responsibility to take care of this in the good way. And every

01:08:44.240 person says, I've only been there once, but there's 30,000 people every year that's been there

01:08:50.120 once. You know, in a short number of days, we're talking like 60 days, that 30,000 people have

01:08:59.000 tromped over that land and have smashed it down. But I don't think everybody has that, you know,

01:09:05.240 there's a plight of the recreator, and then a gist of people who think it's religious,

01:09:12.800 but spend no time to understand what does that mean i mean it's it would be like us going into

01:09:21.240 the catholic church and saying yeah i have a sense that this is a religious place maybe i need to

01:09:26.260 build a fire right here on the floor and i want to smoke it up with my herbs and then i want to

01:09:32.980 mark on these walls you know in my sacred way that would be all right wouldn't it you know that's

01:09:41.300 that's what we're up against in these places that are so sacred. And I say that because

01:09:46.560 we believe that this mountain, Buimpuyuk, is connected to 20 sacred mountains in the world,

01:09:53.560 you know, including Mauna Kea, which is the tallest mountain in the world.

01:09:59.020 And so we went to Mauna Kea, you know, I believe it's connected to Uchamek in Russia,

01:10:04.700 in the Altai. And we went there to the Altai and saw what that was. And we went to

01:10:12.400 Mount Araki. And I believe that these are all associations of the sacredness that holds our

01:10:19.820 world together. And I haven't been to the other ones, but I hope I get to go, you know, in my

01:10:26.860 lifetime to see this big container that holds our ocean of fresh water in these mountains that are

01:10:38.980 all connected. I don't know how people can be taught, you know, it's a struggle every day,

01:10:48.240 every way you can think of stopping the bus loads. You know, we're fighting against Crystal

01:10:53.580 geyser right now that's on Mount Shasta that wants to take an unlimited amount of water off

01:10:58.900 the mountain. And we're saying that's a cultural resource. You can't do that because if we allow

01:11:04.680 Crystal Geyser to take 100,000 acre feet of water or 100 acre feet of water, that means everything

01:11:12.660 downstream is going to do without 100 acre feet of water that's needed because that's how it's

01:11:19.120 been set up. There's not extra water on Mount Shasta that the state of California doesn't need.

01:11:25.580 There's not extra water to do that, to draft it off, contaminate half of it, bottle up the other

01:11:32.460 half, and ship it out of California. This is not the wisest way to deal with a sacred place

01:11:39.940 or the water systems, but we do believe that the water is a sacred being and can come and go as

01:11:49.920 it pleases. It's one of the most powerful beings there is, and it chooses where to be.

01:11:56.920 They do things on Mount Shasta, then maybe it won't come up no more. Maybe it won't be there

01:12:03.040 no more. Then what are they going to do?

01:12:09.940 Wow, thank you so much, Chief, for this incredible conversation.

01:12:20.180 And I would just like to ask if there's anything you'd like to end on as we're closing this conversation and there's anything else you'd like to say or end on.

01:12:30.460 yeah only that the unrecognized issues that exist for tribes in the united states needs to further

01:12:40.100 educate people about these things because it's a discriminatory process meant to keep tribes like

01:12:46.380 mine from being able to protect our sacred places people need to remember that we're from here we

01:12:52.600 have nowhere else in the world to go to be able to learn how to be winomums we have to have our

01:12:57.720 river we have to have our salmon and it really is not too much to ask to be allowed to do these

01:13:05.740 things and keep these things and it's a good thing you know these things are valuable and that there

01:13:13.200 is knowledge in what we do and how we do it you know when we dance on the river there are certain

01:13:19.000 things that happen to the river and to the mountains that hear that drumbeat going up and

01:13:24.740 down that river. And the recognition status would be comparable to being a slavery status,

01:13:34.760 where you are invisible, you have no rights, you can't protect anything. You know, the American

01:13:41.280 Indian Religious Freedoms Act does not help us protect our sacred ceremonies, and neither does

01:13:48.700 the First Amendment. We cannot use either of those. So every time that we do a dance on the

01:13:55.140 river in ceremony, we are breaking the law. We don't have the right to do that because we're

01:14:02.100 not considered a tribe. You know, just like we don't have the right to bring our fish back and

01:14:07.460 sit on the committee to bring our fish back because we're not a tribe. We don't have a right

01:14:12.280 to protect our children from being adopted out because we're not a tribe. None of the laws that

01:14:18.340 protect Indian tribes, language, art, you name it, we cannot use them. And so I think that if 0.88

01:14:26.220 people recognize the wrongdoing here on the part of the government in the 80s, maybe things will

01:14:34.160 change. You know, that's why I work at the UN for the unrecognized and unrepresented peoples,

01:14:41.360 because really we are the unrepresented people in the United States.

01:14:47.180 No one here in California represents the traditional people or the tribal people

01:14:52.460 or the indigenous peoples here in this government.

01:14:56.800 Nobody represents our issues and our problems in the U.S. government. 0.74

01:15:03.560 There's no place that we have a seat in Congress

01:15:08.340 that represents the issues that we're dealing with.

01:15:11.820 You know, we have to deal directly with prosperity offices

01:15:15.560 like the Department of the Interior.

01:15:18.620 It's an unfair situation that we find ourselves in

01:15:21.980 and that the court of law is not with us.

01:15:25.920 There's no Justice Department that we can file with.

01:15:29.380 And so, you know, that's why we have a lawsuit

01:15:33.600 trying to protect our sacred sites,

01:15:35.620 But, you know, we're fighting for standing to say we're the right people on the McLeod River to have the right to protect our sacred places.

01:15:44.300 You know, and that's just wrong.

01:15:46.040 Those things are doing what has happened to my tribe seem like we need relief.

01:15:52.600 We need to be allowed to be the tribe that we were all this time.

01:15:57.300 We need to be allowed to go back to our river, have our salmon again and sing our songs.

01:16:02.660 You know, our songs need to continue.

01:16:04.060 So I think that's that's probably the bottom line. And I say that for my future generations. You know, I have a young chief that's coming up and I would like to leave her in a situation that's better than what I had to pick up and better than what my grams, even though, you know, we have way more than many tribes in California have as far as our traditions, our culture, our medicines, our songs, our dances.

01:16:31.900 And in that light, you know, I'm thankful that my tribal leaders ahead of me, you know, preserved for us.

01:16:39.920 Thank you again so much.

01:16:41.580 And I just want to lead the audience to your GoFundMe page to do the Salmon Restoration, which is GoFundMe.com slash Salmon Will Run.

01:16:51.260 And also, if you'd like to learn more information, go to run4, the number 4, so run4salmon.org.

01:17:01.900 to learn more about this powerful journey led by Chief Kaling Sisk of the Winnemum Wintu tribe.

01:17:08.860 So again, thank you so much for all of your time and your wisdoms and explaining to us these complex

01:17:15.660 dilemmas facing California, Mount Shasta, the Salmon, and the Winnemum Wintu people.

01:17:21.420 And our support is with you, Chief. Thank you.

01:17:24.840 Thank you very much. Bye-bye.

01:17:31.900 Thank you for listening to For the Wild podcast.

01:17:36.600 I'm Ayanna Young.

01:17:38.500 Please visit GoFundMe.com slash SalmonWillRun

01:17:42.000 to support Chief Kaleen and her efforts for the salmon and the water

01:17:46.420 and ultimately for all living creatures.

01:17:49.360 I believe we must start supporting each other in this movement

01:17:52.680 and make a practice of tangibly engaging in these fights

01:17:56.240 to preserve the remaining biodiversity on Earth.

01:17:59.460 the music you heard today was a mixture of maori and winnaman songs from the dancing salmon home

01:18:07.300 documentary the interlude song was mountain song by nicole reynolds our theme music is silence

01:18:14.980 returns by bow and like a river by kate wolf a huge thanks to our new producer and editor

01:18:21.900 reach out and to march young for their production brilliance also a bow of gratitude to our research

01:18:28.540 director, Madison Migulski. I'd also love to thank Nidia Alicia, a tireless

01:18:34.620 warrioress on the Run for Salmon campaign, who coordinated this interview. We

01:18:40.160 have a newsletter coming out soon, so go to forthewild.world to sign up. We'll be

01:18:45.500 sharing the exciting developments with the Native Species Nursery, the Tongass

01:18:49.600 film, and the festival appearances I'll be making next, so stay tuned.

01:18:58.540 It's high on a mountain

01:19:15.160 The warm winds are blowing

01:19:16.580 And where the winds are blowing to

01:19:18.500 There ain't no way of knowing

01:19:21.460 The mountain grass is short

01:19:24.740 It's dry and close to burning

01:19:27.460 Crying out for water

01:19:30.740 As the season's turning

01:19:33.780 Sweet smell of the pines

01:19:38.740 Tall western cedar

01:19:40.420 Drifting on the wind

01:19:43.900 Through the mountains like a river

01:19:54.160 I've been too long away

01:19:56.160 From this wild open sky

01:19:57.720 On the concrete trails that whine

01:19:59.860 Through the canyons dark and white

01:20:02.640 The sounds of people talking

01:20:05.460 Words of blue and gray

01:20:08.920 Smells of doors and windows

01:20:12.080 Closed against the day

01:20:15.080 The sweet smell of the pines

01:20:19.820 Tall western cedar

01:20:21.540 Drifting on the wind

01:20:24.960 Through the mountains like a river

01:20:54.960 You

For The Wild - June 28, 2017

CHIEF CALEEN SISK on the Fight for Free and Wild Salmon Rivers ⧸47

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