For The Wild - KURT RUSSO on the People Under the Sea ⌠ENCORE⌡ ⧸127

00:00:00.180 For the Wild podcast is brought to you by our sponsor, the Calliopeia Foundation.

00:00:06.220 Calliopeia believes in supporting individuals and organizations that work to transform our ecological, cultural, and spiritual relationships with each other and our common home.

00:00:17.300 We thank Calliopeia for their ongoing support of creative projects that we believe in.

00:00:22.460 To learn more, visit calliopeia.org.

00:00:25.320 hey for the wild community it's ayana here and we are about to share with you an encore episode

00:00:31.600 with kurt russo on the people under the sea this episode is extremely timely especially because

00:00:38.100 of the trans mountain pipeline that just got passed in canada and the dams the pipelines

00:00:46.120 are directly related to the health of salmon and orca so it feels like a really timely episode to

00:00:51.960 be sharing with you again now. And to support Kurt's work and stay up to date, you can follow

00:00:57.600 sacredsea.org. Also, I do want to mention that Tokatai has still yet to be released. And if you

00:01:04.940 haven't heard this episode, you will hear more about this incredible being from Kurt. So enjoy

00:01:11.060 this encore episode while we prepare the In the Field episodes coming up shortly. And for those

00:01:17.200 of you who aren't aware, I've been heading to Alaska through Cascadia for the last few years

00:01:23.180 recording incredibly personal and intimate relationships with people on the front lines

00:01:27.840 of massive resource extraction projects that are threatening the last remnants of the wild.

00:01:47.200 so our

00:01:51.380 our prayers go to

00:01:53.660 J50 and her mother

00:01:54.720 her family

00:01:55.900 the Salish Sea

00:01:59.040 and all our relations

00:02:00.400 and to your listeners

00:02:03.480 that they keep their hope up

00:02:04.820 even if their pessimism grows

00:02:06.880 stay hopeful because as one person

00:02:09.580 once told me

00:02:10.280 you're an activist

00:02:13.400 you are not allowed

00:02:17.160 to lose hope

00:02:18.500 the silence is broken

00:02:28.740 by somebody crying

00:02:30.540 trying to be heard

00:02:32.280 never a word

00:02:34.000 always the attitude

00:02:36.100 sort out your own

00:02:37.560 always alone

00:02:39.340 wishing for something

00:02:41.480 the world is denying

00:02:43.220 out in the wilderness

00:02:46.480 Hello and welcome to For the Wild podcast. I'm Ayanna Young. Today we are speaking with Kurt

00:03:03.300 Russo. Kurt has worked on environmental issues, land preservation, and treaty rights with the

00:03:09.940 Lummi Nation for 40 years. He is a senior strategist for the Lummi Nation's sovereignty

00:03:15.340 and Treaty Protection Office, coordinating the Lummi Nation's Salish Sea Campaign and the Tokatai

00:03:22.280 Repatriation Project. He is also the Executive Director of the Foundation for Indigenous Medicine

00:03:28.540 and the former Director of the Native American Land Conservancy. He holds a BS and MS in Forestry

00:03:36.000 and a PhD in History. Well, thank you so much, Kurt, for joining us today. And before I begin,

00:03:43.560 I would just like to extend the deepest of gratitude from all of us at For the Wild for

00:03:49.720 the passionate and moving work you are doing on behalf of the Southern resident orcas and in

00:03:56.300 working to bring Tokatai back home to her natal waters and relatives who await her. Thank you.

00:04:02.820 And it feels only right that we begin our More Than Human theme month in honor of the mother

00:04:09.060 orca, Taliqua, who carried her dead calf on a tour of grief for more than a thousand miles over a

00:04:16.220 17-day period. And it's a profound reminder that we share our place and experience with other

00:04:23.860 beings that bear memory, whose capacity for love and loss mirror our own. And it also highlights

00:04:30.860 the uncertainty of the southern residents' livelihood, and quite frankly, the livelihood

00:04:35.620 of our planetary community if we continue to act with reckless abandon. And I see Taliqua's act as

00:04:43.240 a communicative plea to our humanity, as an acute demonstration of the wisdom that these kin possess.

00:04:51.580 So could you begin by sharing with us what Lummi cosmology might make of this happening and

00:04:59.220 what place orcas occupy within Lummi cosmology more broadly?

00:05:05.300 Cosmology is one of those words that sort of, you sort of drop back into your eyes,

00:05:09.660 if you know what I mean. I can tell you what I've been told about those questions.

00:05:15.000 There was a time, and there was a Lummi word for this in their cosmology, which is spelled

00:05:22.060 E-L-H-N-E-X-W

00:05:26.420 T-E-X-W

00:05:28.280 and that refers to a time

00:05:31.320 when all life forms were one

00:05:34.800 and related

00:05:36.940 and that time is a time when

00:05:41.720 the Kualalmich and the blackfish

00:05:45.160 and the young ones

00:05:48.660 the humans and others

00:05:50.660 all were one

00:05:53.020 the Kulalmachin is considered

00:05:57.540 one of the people that lives under the water

00:06:01.160 that's what the word means, blackfish

00:06:03.600 cosmology, like I said, is a big word

00:06:08.200 so if you can imagine

00:06:10.860 because that's what it takes, right

00:06:12.580 blackfish, take out the image you have in your mind

00:06:18.960 and imagine that people are actually blackfish

00:06:22.000 as much as blackfish

00:06:23.980 are people

00:06:24.500 it's all one family

00:06:26.500 and that's very unusual

00:06:29.660 and it's very unique

00:06:30.720 and the same is true for salmon

00:06:32.660 the salmon woman

00:06:35.860 speaks, spoke 1.00

00:06:37.660 to Lummies 0.98

00:06:39.000 about their sacred obligation

00:06:40.980 to the creation

00:06:43.440 I'm a

00:06:48.960 in a very

00:06:49.820 emotional state right now

00:06:53.500 you have to bear with me

00:06:54.580 the fact is that you're right

00:06:58.560 and this is what I've heard

00:07:02.100 the chief of the Lumi, Salik is his name

00:07:04.640 say this

00:07:05.580 Talikwa

00:07:07.780 was showing to the world

00:07:11.220 what the ones that live above the water are doing

00:07:15.920 look 0.60

00:07:18.140 look at my dead baby

00:07:25.020 look

00:07:28.060 look at my dying ocean

00:07:32.540 look for a thousand miles in 17 days

00:07:39.260 till I put her down

00:07:40.200 and I won't eat

00:07:42.420 all that time

00:07:44.540 the last surviving calf

00:07:50.640 that was born

00:07:53.940 to the J-pods

00:07:56.660 in 2015

00:07:57.380 is missing

00:08:00.700 that calf

00:08:04.160 is called Scarlet J-50

00:08:06.180 and we know from the rake marks 0.58

00:08:10.240 on J-50's 0.74

00:08:12.660 side

00:08:13.400 that she was midwifed

00:08:16.220 into birth by other members of the pod

00:08:18.220 midwifed

00:08:19.020 pulled out 1.00

00:08:21.720 of her mother by other

00:08:24.180 killer whales to give life to little Scarlet 0.97

00:08:26.320 pulled out and midwifed 0.93

00:08:28.760 these are the people that 0.99

00:08:30.280 live under the water

00:08:31.080 so yes

00:08:34.140 the Lummi cosmology goes back to the

00:08:36.360 that tongue that is 0.98

00:08:38.380 known as the every win

00:08:41.940 every win

00:08:42.660 E-V-E-R-Y

00:08:44.760 W-H-E-N

00:08:46.580 and the before time and one time

00:08:48.260 and that's the time we're speaking in now

00:08:51.220 the fact is

00:08:57.040 there are worlds within worlds

00:09:01.560 and the sailor sea is showing us

00:09:03.440 that one world that we are living in

00:09:06.500 is in a deep crisis

00:09:08.260 and the people that live above the water 1.00

00:09:10.760 have to understand

00:09:12.120 they don't own this place

00:09:14.600 their presidents

00:09:16.840 don't own it

00:09:17.620 their congressmen don't own it

00:09:19.900 they don't own it

00:09:22.760 they were gifted it

00:09:25.180 until that's understood

00:09:28.700 we'll see more dead calves

00:09:31.980 so that's what I have to say to that

00:09:36.500 thank you for your

00:09:41.020 um your emotional connection it really

00:09:44.860 expresses the grief and the pain around these beautiful being these kin that are speaking to

00:09:56.020 us and i i truly believe that so the lumi reverence for their orca kin brings us to

00:10:06.260 the story of Tokatai, or Lolita, an orca who is currently kept at Miami Sequarium in Florida.

00:10:13.900 And I'm wondering if you could share with us this story, beginning with the traumatic

00:10:18.100 capture of Tokatai back in 1970.

00:10:22.360 We have a website which we talked to you about called sacredsea.org, sacredseaallrunstogether.org.

00:10:31.800 And on that website is the work we're doing for the Salish Sea, and part of that work for the Salish Sea is the rescue and repatriation of Tokatai.

00:10:41.620 So on that website is a button called Media Resources, and on that button, Media Resources, are two videos.

00:10:51.960 And one video is a trailer of a film we're doing about the return of Tokatai.

00:10:57.140 It's in production.

00:10:58.200 and the other is the chief of the Lummi Nation

00:11:01.480 speaking

00:11:02.080 about Kualalmachin

00:11:04.620 Tokatai

00:11:08.460 if you would see the original footage

00:11:11.720 taken in Penn Cove

00:11:14.020 in 1970

00:11:15.080 it's very hard to even recount

00:11:17.720 but

00:11:18.040 by the captive industry they were herded in

00:11:21.700 by dynamite

00:11:22.460 and

00:11:24.920 underwater explosions

00:11:26.820 they were herded into a cove

00:11:30.260 and they took whale after whale

00:11:35.860 after whale after whale

00:11:37.920 seven whales died, they drowned

00:11:41.400 four young ones died, they were drowned

00:11:44.200 and each of the drowned whales was

00:11:46.300 their stomachs cut open with cement blocks put in to sink them

00:11:49.460 so they wouldn't be found

00:11:50.460 these were human beings that did this

00:11:54.060 If you hear the keening, keening is the sound killer whales make when they are highly distressed.

00:12:01.860 People that were in Penn Cove that day will tell you the haunting sounds of the screams of the killer whales,

00:12:10.700 of the matriarch spy hopping desperately to search for their family as they were taken onto ships and vanished.

00:12:18.560 The keening is almost too much to bear.

00:12:24.060 Tokatai was taken out of the water that day

00:12:27.400 she was four years old

00:12:28.700 and these

00:12:31.460 captains of the universe

00:12:33.480 of SeaWorld

00:12:36.240 and others

00:12:37.880 who arrogate to themselves

00:12:40.100 the right to take these beings

00:12:41.860 captive 0.98

00:12:42.680 shipped her off to Miami 0.99

00:12:45.800 this is a whale that lives most of its water 0.99

00:12:49.860 its temperatures average about

00:12:51.840 50 degrees

00:12:52.720 she's taken to Miami

00:12:56.640 at 4 years old

00:12:59.080 17 other whales were shipped off that day

00:13:03.220 to other sea circuses

00:13:05.280 for people to be treated

00:13:07.680 tricks for treats for the whales

00:13:10.500 to educate their kids about killer whales 0.98

00:13:14.400 she was placed in a concrete tank

00:13:18.800 80 feet long and 20 feet deep 0.63

00:13:21.060 for 47 years

00:13:23.820 she's the only

00:13:27.120 surviving wild orca in North America

00:13:29.660 in captivity

00:13:30.580 she's the last one they all died

00:13:33.000 within 15 years 0.99

00:13:34.180 there was a killer whale

00:13:37.220 placed in the Seaquarium

00:13:38.980 Miami Seaquarium's tank

00:13:40.460 and if I sound angry it's simply because I am

00:13:42.760 another killer whale

00:13:44.940 was placed in the tank with her

00:13:46.540 his name was Hugo

00:13:47.440 and Hugo

00:13:50.900 committed suicide

00:13:51.960 smashed his head up 0.86

00:13:57.140 against the sign of the tank until he was dead

00:13:58.620 they disposed of his water like waste into a landfill

00:14:00.860 so she was left alone with two young

00:14:05.180 porpoises and she's been there ever since

00:14:07.340 and the Lummi Nation had heard about this some years ago

00:14:09.540 but until

00:14:11.140 recently didn't really

00:14:13.180 bring the full weight to bear to get her free

00:14:15.240 and back to her family her mother is still alive

00:14:17.260 her mother is 1.00

00:14:19.200 now the matriarch 0.93

00:14:20.100 of the L pod 0.98

00:14:21.680 if you were to go outside

00:14:25.860 Miami Seaquarium

00:14:26.880 stand there in the middle of the night

00:14:29.360 you will hear Tokatai

00:14:31.400 singing

00:14:32.560 you will hear her voice

00:14:34.780 she has done that every night

00:14:39.440 for 47 years

00:14:40.520 so we have and Joel James

00:14:43.260 my colleague and inspiration

00:14:45.100 is a master carver of totem poles

00:14:49.620 And he carves a totem pole in dedication to the reunion and return and rescue of Tokatai.

00:14:55.600 So that totem pole is now in Gainesville, Florida, at the University of Florida, where it's going to be brought out on December 10th for exhibit, along with an exhibit at the Sailor Sea.

00:15:04.860 It's part of our campaign we're working with to get her free, get her here, get her home, get her well, get her strong, and get her back to her mother.

00:15:14.900 And we will do that, and it'll be done within two years.

00:15:17.420 Miami's Aquarium

00:15:19.560 doesn't take it seriously

00:15:21.960 but they will soon enough

00:15:24.240 they say she's worth 20 million dollars 1.00

00:15:28.340 we're not going to pay anything to get her out of there

00:15:31.920 and the tribe was called to do this by

00:15:37.000 let's put it this way it wasn't a phone call

00:15:39.160 they were told to get this done

00:15:41.960 so we're getting it done

00:15:43.940 she's with the L-Pod J-K-N-L-Pod 0.99

00:15:47.180 make up the southern residents 1.00

00:15:49.060 southern resident killer whale population

00:15:51.760 spend a lot of their lives

00:15:53.900 in lummi waters

00:15:55.740 traditional waters

00:15:56.880 so we have a sanctuary 0.99

00:15:59.620 ready for her to return to

00:16:01.600 near Orcas Island

00:16:05.800 in the San Juan Islands where

00:16:07.340 her family tours by routinely

00:16:09.420 there will be a moment

00:16:10.800 sometime in the next two and a half

00:16:13.680 years when

00:16:14.380 Tokatai is going to be

00:16:17.380 singing out her song

00:16:18.640 and her mother is going to hear it

00:16:20.280 she can hear it 10 miles away

00:16:21.440 and they are going to reunite

00:16:24.400 and that's our job

00:16:27.160 is to make that moment happen

00:16:29.000 and the Salish Sea

00:16:30.380 when that moment occurs

00:16:31.360 will never look the same again

00:16:34.100 to anybody

00:16:35.160 that's the Tokatai campaign

00:16:38.600 wow kurt that's so raw and hearing the details of these captures is devastating but so necessary

00:16:53.300 for us to hear it's just insane to think in 1970 that over 40 orca calves were captured and sold

00:17:01.100 eight adults were killed at the time and like you were saying the pods were just completely

00:17:05.900 frantic um yeah so i i just feel compelled to underscore just how traumatic the capture of

00:17:14.700 these orcas was like you were saying to this day human residents of the area recall hearing the

00:17:20.860 frantic kings of matriarch orcas as their children were torn from the sea by helicopters

00:17:26.220 similarly resident orcas avoid penn cove where their relatives were stolen and have done so for

00:17:34.120 the past 50 years. In an article written by J. Julius, who you had mentioned, the chairman of the

00:17:40.540 Lummi Nation, Julius writes, quote, just like Tokatai, members of the Lummi Nation have endured

00:17:46.220 centuries of destructive policies. Policies that separated our families, depleted our salmon runs,

00:17:52.780 desecrated our sacred sites, and reduced our traditional fishing areas to a fraction of what

00:17:57.520 they once were. These policies and willful disregard for our treaties have damaged the

00:18:03.740 health of the Salish Sea and negatively impacted the well-being of our people, end quote.

00:18:09.820 I'm curious about the connections between government policy that separated human families,

00:18:16.160 as well as those that have done the same to the southern residents. How do these stories of

00:18:22.820 separation tell one another? And how does Tokatai's abduction reflect the failure of policy to protect

00:18:29.540 the Sailor Sea? Well, that's an important question. I think it has many different levels

00:18:36.500 that you come in to try to answer it. I'm not going to pretend to know most of the answers,

00:18:41.480 but one thing, it speaks to something clearly out of order

00:18:48.100 in the way our society deals with life forms, even their own.

00:18:58.920 There's something seriously wrong with all of this.

00:19:01.600 It's not just normal.

00:19:03.760 It's not just normal for a person to come in the community and steal children.

00:19:11.480 But what's painfully normal is the ability for people to rationalize doing it.

00:19:19.780 Everyone that did these things, these government agents or these agents of the C-circuit industry,

00:19:29.980 they may be great brothers and mothers, but yet they do these things.

00:19:37.640 And they can explain it to themselves.

00:19:39.180 So, you know, I was told once by a woman who counseled battered women, and I got to know her fairly well.

00:19:46.760 She once told me there's only one thing most important, and it is how you explain yourself to yourself.

00:20:01.540 Everything flows from that.

00:20:03.180 I actually met

00:20:06.320 a gentleman who was involved

00:20:08.820 in the captures

00:20:10.240 in Penn Cove

00:20:12.000 when he was 15

00:20:13.480 he was part of the capture team

00:20:15.900 I said how could you do that

00:20:20.740 and he said well I was only 15

00:20:23.460 and I said well I was 15 once

00:20:24.680 I wouldn't have done that

00:20:25.540 it's complicated

00:20:28.300 but now he's involved

00:20:30.740 in Orca Rescue

00:20:31.520 you so it came back to haunt him i i think i fear and i hope that my fears are wrong

00:20:42.260 that there's something missing

00:20:44.240 in the way we treat life not just orcas but each other there's something missing

00:20:57.660 in the day-to-day cruelty we see

00:21:00.860 in the paper

00:21:01.880 I had a dear friend who was very involved

00:21:06.960 in Buddhism

00:21:08.380 she's very well placed

00:21:11.060 in that tradition

00:21:12.240 and she went to a seven month

00:21:14.860 silent retreat, seven months

00:21:16.520 of silence

00:21:18.120 and he said what was the hardest thing

00:21:20.960 when you came out

00:21:21.660 he said the front page

00:21:27.260 of a newspaper, violence after violence after violence, the front page stories of people

00:21:35.940 being less than human to their world and each other.

00:21:38.600 And I think killer whales and boarding schools draw a line that we need to pay attention

00:21:48.820 to, that we're being, we're being, how can I put this, molded by a system or a process

00:21:58.800 or something to do things unspeakably cruel to each other, and to perfectly innocent life

00:22:06.360 forms that have done nothing to us, but inhabit the same planet.

00:22:13.080 There's something missing.

00:22:14.440 there's a presence of an absence

00:22:16.900 and that's I think

00:22:19.800 what connects

00:22:20.480 what a human being

00:22:23.100 can do to a sentient being

00:22:24.760 that has the form of a killer whale

00:22:27.340 and how a human being can do that

00:22:29.620 to a six month old

00:22:31.620 native child

00:22:32.340 carrying it from the arms of its mother

00:22:35.220 and shipping it 2,000 miles away

00:22:36.860 you know I

00:22:40.300 Jewel and I have worked around the world

00:22:44.440 And one time we found ourselves in Brazil, having an audience with a gentleman who was trying to stop the construction of a nuclear power plant they were going to build on the coast between Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paulo.

00:22:57.260 And we thought, well, there's madness.

00:23:02.540 So we're having an audience with this gentleman who was fighting it.

00:23:05.740 And he was asked, are you an optimist?

00:23:12.400 He laughed and he said, no, no, no.

00:23:14.440 I'm not.

00:23:15.560 I'm hopeful.

00:23:19.100 I have been so distressed by this

00:23:23.480 that I had to go see a therapist.

00:23:28.660 And I said to her, 1.00

00:23:32.980 J-50 and the residents, 0.98

00:23:37.380 I said I can't stop crying.

00:23:41.580 I know why.

00:23:44.440 she said to me

00:23:48.200 she said to me

00:23:50.740 because you work

00:23:53.960 every day

00:23:54.860 with people

00:23:58.120 with great empathy

00:23:59.600 for their world

00:24:01.700 and it's true

00:24:08.580 empathy

00:24:13.100 is

00:24:14.260 the ability to take on

00:24:19.020 the impressions of the other

00:24:20.260 and I think that

00:24:25.400 when the world saw that

00:24:27.220 grieving mother

00:24:30.160 it took on that mother's

00:24:35.600 song

00:24:37.760 in a kind of mea culpa

00:24:52.860 one can only hope that

00:24:54.500 one can only hope that we find 1.00

00:24:59.260 J50 little Scarlet alive 0.98

00:25:00.940 seems unlikely

00:25:04.580 I was mentioning this to

00:25:08.020 someone here in the tribe

00:25:10.080 about how

00:25:10.600 this morning

00:25:13.740 the

00:25:14.040 the residents

00:25:17.260 very unusual

00:25:20.440 were all traveling together

00:25:23.400 and the J-pod was in the lead

00:25:29.880 tight formation

00:25:32.780 and the lead of the J-Pod 0.90

00:25:37.880 was J-50's mother

00:25:40.860 it's called

00:25:48.780 the grief formation

00:25:51.300 the entire resident population

00:25:56.800 standing with the mother

00:26:00.320 who probably just lost her

00:26:02.820 four-year-old baby

00:26:04.820 that wasn't in the formation

00:26:08.760 and nobody knows where it is.

00:26:12.540 I need to say this, though.

00:26:15.020 It didn't have to turn out this way. 0.97

00:26:21.440 J-50 could have been

00:26:22.920 saved.

00:26:25.520 but she died more than likely

00:26:31.140 she died of starvation

00:26:32.440 her mother was trying to feed her

00:26:34.300 her family shared their food with her

00:26:37.220 isn't that amazing

00:26:37.840 but it wasn't nurturing her because

00:26:41.260 well we don't know why 0.99

00:26:43.060 because they're living in a sick ocean

00:26:47.940 we here in the tribe participate in the

00:26:53.200 governor of the state of Washington

00:26:54.800 Southern Resident Killer Whale Task Force.

00:26:59.720 Yeah.

00:27:00.200 Well, it's not rocket science 0.98

00:27:03.760 what these killer whales need. 0.92

00:27:05.040 They need food.

00:27:09.680 They need 580,000 pounds of Chinook a year

00:27:14.140 to survive.

00:27:18.900 They're not getting one-tenth of that.

00:27:20.740 if they really cared about this

00:27:25.820 rather than having task force debate

00:27:27.400 over how many angels

00:27:29.040 can dance on the head of a pin 0.96

00:27:30.560 all they've got to do

00:27:31.760 is take down the Snake River dams

00:27:33.560 they can do that in two months

00:27:35.220 they don't even need

00:27:36.060 congressional approval to do it

00:27:37.600 that's where the Chinook

00:27:40.540 were decimated

00:27:41.800 for those dams

00:27:44.640 but no

00:27:47.440 instead they're talking about

00:27:48.980 slowing down ferries

00:27:50.700 or asking tribes to stop fishing 0.77

00:27:54.360 in areas that they're entitled to

00:27:56.000 you know

00:27:59.440 it's madness

00:28:01.420 you know one thing I'll mention

00:28:04.420 to you with the four dance

00:28:05.900 on the lower snake river on the Columbia

00:28:08.460 have produced only two hours

00:28:12.620 of electricity that's been needed

00:28:14.320 in the last ten years

00:28:16.540 two hours

00:28:18.780 why do we have those dams

00:28:22.940 75% 1.00

00:28:27.080 of all the schnook that try to get down that river 1.00

00:28:28.960 are crushed in the dams 1.00

00:28:30.960 you know it's kind of

00:28:35.020 decision time

00:28:35.740 and I think people that

00:28:40.440 love your show

00:28:41.540 we honor them

00:28:44.020 we honor them

00:28:45.240 have to help us understand

00:28:51.720 how we can turn this

00:28:53.720 big ship of a way of life

00:28:55.000 perched on the edge of

00:28:57.660 the Salish Sea that is destroying it.

00:29:04.680 Because that's what's going on.

00:29:06.200 I mean, this is, they say

00:29:07.500 when industry arrives,

00:29:09.720 salmon go away. And when salmon

00:29:11.500 goes away, killer whales die.

00:29:13.300 Chinook is the only food

00:29:16.740 Southern residents will eat

00:29:18.460 They don't eat anything else 1.00

00:29:20.400 If there's no Chinook 1.00

00:29:22.920 You don't have any Southern residents 1.00

00:29:26.100 It is 1.00

00:29:27.700 It's

00:29:31.020 A situation

00:29:32.680 We simply have to understand

00:29:34.800 We can win this

00:29:36.320 But not without an awful lot of

00:29:38.520 Leaning into the issue and sacrifice

00:29:40.740 the most immediate and pressing threat for the southern resident orcas is starvation due to the

00:30:03.500 snake river dams the chinook salmon their primary food source cannot spawn action points for this

00:30:09.860 episode include calling Governor Jay Inslee at 360-902-4111 to insist they take action to breach

00:30:20.080 these dams. Secondly, call the U.S. Army Corps at 202-761-000 to insist the same. Third, call the

00:30:31.600 Department of Fisheries and Oceans at 604-666-0384 to insist on a cap on salmon fishing. And lastly,

00:30:42.320 in your personal life, to choose to stop eating Chinook salmon, the main food source for our

00:30:47.220 orca kin. I want to talk a little bit more about the issue of the Chinook salmon, basically the

00:31:00.240 collapse of salmon fisheries in washington oregon california british columbia and now alaska

00:31:08.480 and i've been up in alaska for the last two and a half months and been doing interviews with

00:31:16.900 people around salmon uh basically be on a listening tour and it's really devastating

00:31:23.900 fascinating to hear in these last vestiges of intact ecosystems that people have been saying

00:31:32.240 i don't know where the kings are we don't know where the coho they call them the silvers they're

00:31:37.600 not coming back we don't know where they're going they're going out to sea they're not coming back

00:31:41.800 and there's a lot of questions and a lot of confusion and and just really not knowing

00:31:48.240 why they're not coming home the the salmon so i'd like to hear more from you about the chinook

00:31:58.360 specifically and what's happening to the fisheries in washington and in near the sailor sea

00:32:04.820 why do you think although we could state some obvious pointers of why we think they're collapsing

00:32:10.600 i'd like to hear from you your point of view on their collapse and you know what is their state

00:32:16.260 in the area and what are what are the things that people can do to support the return of the

00:32:24.340 fisheries yeah it is um it's been um it's been known for three decades or more what the basic

00:32:33.020 problem is in terms of the 98 percent reduction of salmon runs between 1920 and 1990 98 percent

00:32:42.760 and an awful lot of that

00:32:45.160 whether it's whatever part

00:32:47.100 of your talk in the Washington State Pacific Northwest

00:32:49.300 a lot of this habitat

00:32:51.100 loss just

00:32:51.860 they've lost their head they can't even get to

00:32:55.160 where they need to spawn and when they get there

00:32:56.920 the spawning grounds are no longer viable

00:32:59.300 habitat loss

00:33:01.340 is a lot of it not all of it

00:33:02.840 but a lot of it

00:33:03.600 and it's one of those

00:33:07.060 things which

00:33:07.540 it is

00:33:10.500 allowing window dressing to pass as a solution for example having buffer zones

00:33:18.420 i love that one buffer zones along a stream and above the buffer zone well you can do anything

00:33:24.300 laugh like i said my degrees in forestry we knew in forestry in 1968 what you had to do to protect

00:33:32.240 salmon the science is not new though they always seem to need more of it but science doesn't make

00:33:38.400 its way into politics and it doesn't

00:33:40.580 make its way into practices on

00:33:42.480 the ground because it is not

00:33:43.800 profitable

00:33:45.320 to do it responsibly.

00:33:48.760 In the Nooksack Bayesian, where

00:33:50.360 I am now,

00:33:52.420 it would take a century

00:33:53.400 to get the habitat

00:33:56.180 back.

00:33:59.900 Habitat

00:34:00.460 loss and then you have

00:34:01.680 contamination.

00:34:05.300 I mean, the

00:34:06.480 salish sea especially in the southern portions but really give you an example down in seattle

00:34:13.380 when the uh the beginning of world war ii and the japanese were forcibly removed from their

00:34:20.880 homes and sent to various camps quote unquote there were a lot of strawberry farmers japanese

00:34:26.800 strawberry farmers that had truck farms in the seattle area guess who owns their land now

00:34:34.820 Boeing

00:34:36.360 so Boeing

00:34:39.140 moved in and took their land

00:34:40.300 to build whatever

00:34:43.020 they build

00:34:43.560 one of the places that they build

00:34:45.900 military drones

00:34:47.600 some of the most important

00:34:50.260 salmon estuary in southern Puget Sound

00:34:52.420 that they have completely

00:34:54.160 destroyed

00:34:55.940 habitat loss

00:35:00.180 contaminants whether it comes

00:35:02.420 from off the

00:35:04.420 roads, through the sewage system, out of boats and ships.

00:35:08.200 It's just an endless stream of contamination. Everyone knows

00:35:12.220 the salmon that the killer whales are eating

00:35:16.220 are contaminated.

00:35:19.700 The salmon that the seals are eating are contaminated.

00:35:24.560 And why is it contaminated? Because we don't have state-of-the-art

00:35:28.000 wastewater treatment systems throughout Puget Sound. We don't have them.

00:35:31.600 it's it's it's aging infrastructure i think overfishing is the least of our worries

00:35:40.520 um right now it's simply managing extinction and fighting over the last fish

00:35:46.340 rather than addressing the problems the tribes to their credit and one of the great ironies

00:35:53.380 of history i think is trying to save financial capitalism from itself

00:36:01.460 and the endless pursuit of profit

00:36:06.480 short term

00:36:07.660 the

00:36:09.440 unconscionable socialization

00:36:12.600 of cost

00:36:13.220 that goes on and on

00:36:16.140 these are things that need to be

00:36:18.540 addressed and I am hopeful

00:36:19.780 that

00:36:20.860 the younger generation has not been so

00:36:24.420 brainwashed by a system that is

00:36:26.300 overtly unfair

00:36:28.440 to everyone but a small percentage

00:36:30.060 that they are woke

00:36:31.800 to a situation that this is a

00:36:34.040 non-sustainable system

00:36:36.320 if they want to have

00:36:39.120 now I'll mention something to you

00:36:41.940 I had dinner in California

00:36:43.580 with some very interesting

00:36:46.180 people sitting at my table

00:36:48.040 in Paradise Cove down there near Malibu

00:36:50.080 was a Navajo medicine man

00:36:51.420 and his wife

00:36:52.880 my host was the director of

00:36:55.880 it's organized the foundation

00:36:58.260 indigenous medicine, and a young woman who has just started up her fifth startup, high-tech startup, her fifth.

00:37:07.240 She's also an Olympian medalist, mother of two.

00:37:13.120 I mean, you know, one of those people.

00:37:16.480 And she creates virtual reality and security software, security software for the White House.

00:37:28.260 And the NSA.

00:37:30.820 She said two things I want to mention.

00:37:34.460 And she said, I can quote her on this.

00:37:37.540 She said, I can teach a nine-year-old to hack into our electoral system.

00:37:41.220 A nine-year-old.

00:37:44.180 One thing.

00:37:46.540 And the second thing she said is, I really prefer the virtual world to the real one.

00:37:51.260 That terrifies me.

00:37:52.380 what really I hope that

00:37:55.880 I'm hopeful

00:37:58.220 that through programs

00:38:00.140 such as yours and people such as you

00:38:01.920 and your listeners

00:38:02.820 that we don't lose the real

00:38:06.000 world to the virtual one because the virtual one

00:38:07.920 is how do I put this

00:38:08.920 it's not real

00:38:10.560 and as we compromise the real world

00:38:14.000 some people are going to escape into their headsets

00:38:16.440 their earphones

00:38:18.000 that would be

00:38:20.380 a tragedy

00:38:20.920 and I really appreciate work you do

00:38:24.400 to keep people connected to the real one

00:38:26.920 the real one

00:38:29.160 because that's the one we are actually birthed from

00:38:32.940 we didn't create it

00:38:35.340 we were created by it

00:38:39.160 and as I mentioned

00:38:42.240 in the before time

00:38:45.740 we were all one and it wasn't one in a headset

00:38:49.100 i couldn't agree more with you it's just i see a lot of people turning towards

00:38:58.240 virtual reality and i was uh at a best buy a few months ago and it was really horrifying

00:39:08.580 i hadn't been into one of those stores for a really long time and the first thing i saw was

00:39:13.680 this poster of a woman with one of those headsets, you know, face masks on. And I'm like, oh my

00:39:22.620 goodness, this is where we're going. We're going to look into a screen at a forest and an ocean

00:39:28.520 filled with orcas. But if we take that mask off, we'll see clear cuts and dead oceans because we

00:39:34.380 are in so many ways being distracted and lost by a world that isn't real. It's these, you know,

00:39:40.560 if you take a picture with a camera you can create a frame that isn't what reality is you

00:39:49.480 can just you know take a take a picture but you know if you actually turn 360 you'd see a very

00:39:54.440 different a very different view and i think this these extinction crises and what happened with

00:40:03.340 taliqua it is these loud cries to wake up and you know thinking that there's only 76 southern

00:40:10.780 residents left and 30 well less than 30 have the potential to breed you know some suggest that if

00:40:18.400 immediate action isn't taken the southern resident orcas could become extinct within the next 15

00:40:23.920 years so waking up is mandatory if we say we care about our kin if we really say that we care and

00:40:32.580 we want to actually live up to that we need to do something and i you know we've been talking

00:40:36.420 a little bit about the snake river dam and the issues of we haven't gone into this but the

00:40:43.240 recreational and commercial vessel traffic the noises that that make underwater how that

00:40:48.000 can psychologically and communicatively affect the whales the pollution you had mentioned the

00:40:54.540 pollution the ongoing threats of future pipelines um salmon atlantic salmon fish farms in bc so of

00:41:02.180 course like there are a lot of stressors but we need to look at these stressors because if we

00:41:08.020 don't look at them with honesty we're never going to be able to do something about it and it's true

00:41:14.660 the population of whales has declined to its lowest levels in 30 years has decreased 20 percent

00:41:20.600 since the since the late 90s so i i just wanted to bring those things up and then back to mentioning

00:41:27.220 Chinook, the fact that two-thirds of the southern residents' pregnancies have failed due to

00:41:33.400 starvation. Additionally, the lack of food forces orcas to burn their body fat, which ends up

00:41:39.340 releasing toxins like DDT and flame retardants into their system, further suppressing their

00:41:45.160 reproductive health. So, you know, these are, again, these are things that we really need to

00:41:51.480 look at the starvation. And one thing that I had read while getting ready for this interview is

00:41:56.800 that since 2002, the EIS has designated dam breaching as the best solution to recover wild

00:42:03.760 salmon on the Snake River. And they said that if it was breached, it would double or triple the

00:42:08.620 survival rate of Chinook salmon. So I wanted to bring that up because yeah, I kind of just

00:42:13.440 mentioned a lot of really hard facts around the numbers of extinction and starvation and all of

00:42:22.000 the issues that are affecting salmon which then in turn are affecting orcas but then again look

00:42:27.620 if we take out the snake river dam that is something that we can do that would have massive

00:42:33.500 positive consequences so it's not that there aren't solutions but getting to those solutions

00:42:39.580 really prioritizing those is where we need to go and that's i feel like what you were saying

00:42:44.740 with the economic, capitalist, technological, gosh, just delusion to be able to get out of that

00:42:52.500 so we can actually do the things that need to be done. It's a curious thing. You have a natural

00:42:58.220 condition. Salmon want to be in the Columbia River and the Snake River. Eastern Washington

00:43:02.840 doesn't want to be wheat. It's a desert. So they create these dams to sustain an artificial way

00:43:11.660 of life

00:43:12.160 at the expense of a real one

00:43:15.300 I mean

00:43:17.460 if you look at the Palouse

00:43:19.260 the bioregion of

00:43:21.660 the Palouse

00:43:22.340 it is the most compromised bioregion

00:43:25.920 in North America

00:43:26.700 so little remains of what it once was

00:43:29.860 I want to

00:43:31.840 mention one thing though about the Chinook

00:43:33.600 back a second to

00:43:35.320 your folks

00:43:37.300 listening in Canada or even

00:43:39.340 in the Northwest are aware

00:43:40.780 that just north of the border here

00:43:43.920 is a very large coal terminal

00:43:45.880 called Sawasin.

00:43:48.640 Very large, very polluting.

00:43:51.940 Well, you mentioned ship noise.

00:43:55.360 The idea they now have

00:43:57.380 is to create another platform

00:44:02.620 that will service ships,

00:44:07.180 container ships.

00:44:08.720 You ready for this?

00:44:10.780 These ships, imagine a football field.

00:44:14.520 Now walk across four of them.

00:44:17.000 That's how big the ships are.

00:44:19.600 They want to have three of those going right over primary orca foraging habitat every two days.

00:44:27.280 Year round.

00:44:30.240 And they say, this is an example of the disingenuous nature of EISs.

00:44:38.320 Anything government does in EIS.

00:44:40.780 Comment to do by October 5th.

00:44:42.220 And then the EI says, well, you know, this many ships is only a 6% increase in the already existing vessel traffic.

00:44:49.040 And anyway, the southern residents are so highly compromised and won't make much difference.

00:44:56.700 That's the mindset of people that are going to make a lot of money off these ships.

00:45:03.100 But we, you know, the people here, I think it's really important that they understand.

00:45:09.540 It may come a time, and it may not be far off, when they're going to have to put themselves on the line, and their fists in the air, and their feet on the ground, and say, enough.

00:45:23.860 Stop.

00:45:25.980 That's what it's going to take.

00:45:28.040 Yeah, I know voting's important.

00:45:29.760 Yeah, right.

00:45:31.080 Yes, but feet on the ground and fists in the air is also important.

00:45:35.300 there would be no fishing rights

00:45:38.520 for tribes in the northwest 1.00

00:45:39.540 if men and women hadn't gone to jail

00:45:42.480 breaking what was then the law

00:45:44.600 to create

00:45:46.740 a new and better one

00:45:47.920 and unless people

00:45:50.480 are willing to stand the line

00:45:51.740 take off their earphones

00:45:53.980 take off their headsets

00:45:55.520 and rejoin the world, the real one 0.97

00:45:58.180 we're going to lose it

00:45:59.800 I taught a class at the University of Washington

00:46:02.400 forest economics

00:46:04.140 and you know you got a final

00:46:08.040 everyone gets all bleary eyed and they're up all night

00:46:10.380 and they come in for the final and I said

00:46:13.360 well you all ready for your two hour final

00:46:16.320 so put all the

00:46:19.820 chairs in a circle

00:46:21.080 and I said I want everyone to give me their definition of extinction

00:46:26.100 that's a big word you know

00:46:31.180 you used that word a while ago

00:46:35.020 and I think sometimes that word

00:46:37.480 it's like skipping a stone across the human mind

00:46:39.520 they don't quite pause

00:46:41.500 for a moment and think about that

00:46:43.520 millions of

00:46:45.620 years dedicated to creation of a life

00:46:47.580 form because of someone

00:46:49.400 wanting to make a short term profit

00:46:51.480 for a small number of people goes

00:46:53.480 extinct

00:46:54.960 I really believe

00:46:58.600 that tribes probably

00:47:00.960 more than anyone right now, are the best chance we have.

00:47:09.700 And I really encourage people to stand with tribes when they're standing up for their

00:47:14.800 treaty rights, because treaty rights protect everybody.

00:47:19.740 Everybody.

00:47:21.880 I think personally even more than the Constitution does at this point, at least in this country.

00:47:29.300 So we're hopeful here.

00:47:30.820 we will always be hopeful

00:47:32.220 and I want to, if I can

00:47:34.640 before we started this

00:47:36.680 I wanted to mention

00:47:39.020 this one

00:47:39.600 verse written by Wendell Berry

00:47:42.660 do you mind if I read it?

00:47:44.200 please

00:47:44.640 because we have these moments

00:47:47.040 and we look for a place to

00:47:48.680 to

00:47:50.180 resort to our souls

00:47:54.220 and regain our spirits

00:47:55.880 it's a piece he wrote called

00:47:58.280 the peace of wild things

00:48:02.600 when despair for the world grows in me

00:48:10.060 and I wake in the night at the least

00:48:14.820 sound in fear of what my life

00:48:16.620 and my children's lives may be

00:48:18.260 I go and lie down

00:48:22.740 where the wood drake rests

00:48:24.420 in his beauty on the water

00:48:25.980 and the great heron feeds

00:48:28.800 I come into the peace of wild things

00:48:34.920 who do not tax their lives

00:48:36.600 with forethought of grief

00:48:38.060 I come into the presence of still water

00:48:42.700 and I feel above me

00:48:46.860 the day blind stars

00:48:48.580 waiting with their light

00:48:49.800 for a time I rest

00:48:54.980 in the grace of the world

00:48:56.520 and am free.

00:49:03.900 So our prayers go to Jay 50

00:49:07.540 and her mother, her family,

00:49:11.680 the Sailor Sea and all our relations.

00:49:17.000 And to your listeners

00:49:18.140 that they keep their hope up

00:49:19.460 even if their pessimism grows.

00:49:22.520 Stay hopeful because as one person

00:49:24.220 Someone's told me, you're an activist.

00:49:30.240 You are not allowed to lose hope.

00:49:54.220 Thank you.

00:50:24.220 I think about how she wasn't the only orca ripped from her home, as you had mentioned.

00:50:32.820 In fact, throughout the 1960s and 70s, one-third of the southern residents were taken and sold to parks all over the world.

00:50:41.220 Today, she is the sole survivor of those calves who were taken from the Salish Sea.

00:50:46.420 As orcas who live in captivity often live less than half of their traditional life expectancies.

00:50:51.320 expectancies. So I'm wondering what are the mental, physical, and emotional stresses of

00:50:57.140 living in captivity without the companionship of other orcas? And why do you think she has survived

00:51:03.460 when others have not? And could it be said that she has remained resilient by remembering her

00:51:09.200 home and the songs of her pod? That's certainly true. There's a number of, I've asked that

00:51:16.120 question of people that know a lot more than I do

00:51:18.140 about her and about

00:51:19.180 blackfish

00:51:21.140 one answer that has stayed with

00:51:24.260 me is

00:51:24.760 she's in a tank 1.00

00:51:28.300 she's in an open air tank 1.00

00:51:30.040 close to the water

00:51:31.000 she hears

00:51:33.260 the ocean

00:51:35.260 she may think

00:51:38.320 her family's not far away

00:51:41.740 that's why she sings

00:51:44.120 every night

00:51:44.600 I don't know if you saw that part of the video in which Dateline TV show went to Seaquarium with a recording of the L-Pod's songs.

00:52:02.540 And they went to the side of the tank.

00:52:06.320 And where the Seaquarium minders had stepped away for a while, they turned on the tape recorder.

00:52:12.980 practically nose to nose

00:52:16.300 with the guy holding the tape recorder

00:52:17.780 over and over again

00:52:21.440 she heard her songs

00:52:23.940 she heard her pause

00:52:25.560 that was 1998 I believe

00:52:28.680 she's never stopped singing her song

00:52:31.260 I mentioned that I

00:52:34.260 have worked with a man

00:52:37.020 who was involved in her capture

00:52:38.040 he was also one of her first trainers

00:52:39.780 and he said Tokatai

00:52:44.300 she's an unusual girl

00:52:47.880 she's very unusual

00:52:50.320 she is indeed 1.00

00:52:54.440 she's also high as a kite

00:52:56.760 she's on 14 different kinds of medications 1.00

00:52:59.480 she lives in a chlorinated pool 0.99

00:53:02.800 in Miami in the sun

00:53:05.360 so she's on a lot of medications

00:53:09.580 no one really knows

00:53:12.580 her actual state of health

00:53:13.900 be that as it may

00:53:15.960 she displays vigor

00:53:17.200 you see when no one's around 1.00

00:53:19.240 she's racing around the pool 1.00

00:53:20.460 she's still happy to be a killer whale 0.96

00:53:23.700 I think because she really believes 0.96

00:53:25.520 she's going home

00:53:26.200 I was at

00:53:27.580 we went there

00:53:30.180 with one of the Indians

00:53:32.400 they followed us

00:53:36.000 they knew who we were

00:53:38.120 before we even got there

00:53:39.220 was standing

00:53:41.860 by the side of the

00:53:43.620 tank

00:53:46.200 and a Lummi

00:53:48.200 tribal member, councilman and very

00:53:50.280 inspired leader

00:53:51.700 Fred Lane

00:53:54.280 is standing with his arms folded across his chest

00:53:56.540 looking in the water

00:53:57.420 down below

00:53:59.380 she was all the way

00:54:02.300 on the other side of the pond there 1.00

00:54:04.060 the tank, she turns 1.00

00:54:06.060 180 degrees and swims right 1.00

00:54:08.280 over to you and just hangs

00:54:10.300 in the water

00:54:11.320 so I'm going on there

00:54:15.500 it happened twice

00:54:18.020 two different visits

00:54:19.400 so when that was

00:54:23.520 when it happened the first time

00:54:25.320 and Fred moved aside

00:54:28.480 to recompose his prayers

00:54:30.100 she went back

00:54:32.600 to where she'd come from

00:54:33.680 so I walked around the side

00:54:36.420 of the aquarium

00:54:37.160 And I said to the people standing there, can I say hi to her?

00:54:44.820 And this one gentleman, probably in his mid-40s, goes, no.

00:54:49.920 Said, I can't say hi to her?

00:54:53.180 He said, no, but you can say hi to me.

00:54:57.300 And I said, okay.

00:55:01.320 Where's she from?

00:55:03.240 And he gave me that look.

00:55:05.220 and he said

00:55:07.480 you know exactly where she's from

00:55:10.080 and then asked me to leave

00:55:13.240 he is the curator

00:55:16.840 of her

00:55:19.480 at the aquarium

00:55:20.440 that's her master

00:55:21.620 I'm sure

00:55:25.080 he has a great family life

00:55:27.100 he's a wonderful man

00:55:28.020 I'm not saying he isn't

00:55:29.160 but I am saying

00:55:30.100 what they are doing with her

00:55:31.520 is beyond evil

00:55:34.100 she needs to come home

00:55:36.280 and they know it

00:55:37.060 but I also need to say this 1.00

00:55:38.720 the women 1.00

00:55:40.360 that work with her 1.00

00:55:42.000 on a daily basis

00:55:43.040 love her

00:55:44.180 there is no doubt

00:55:46.260 in my mind

00:55:46.900 they love

00:55:48.680 Tokatai

00:55:50.180 management

00:55:52.300 not so much

00:55:53.720 cash cow

00:55:54.960 but they

00:55:56.500 really

00:55:57.860 love that girl

00:55:59.080 you can see it

00:56:01.180 so she does have that connection 0.81

00:56:04.660 but it's also

00:56:06.080 kind of the Stockholm Syndrome 0.99

00:56:07.760 she is a black fish 0.98

00:56:10.180 she needs a family 1.00

00:56:11.780 these women are her family 1.00

00:56:13.700 when she comes back here 1.00

00:56:17.440 we're going to fly her back 0.99

00:56:20.080 that'll express 1.00

00:56:21.140 in one big plane 1.00

00:56:24.600 and she's going to land

00:56:28.160 at Bellingham International Airport

00:56:29.660 she's going to be 0.55

00:56:32.760 taken to the water 0.76

00:56:34.160 slowly taken out

00:56:38.140 to the sanctuary

00:56:39.800 in Orcas Island

00:56:40.800 she's going to have her 1.00

00:56:44.380 handlers, she's going to be a veterinarian 1.00

00:56:45.860 she's going to have everyone she needs 0.98

00:56:47.700 to reassure her

00:56:49.380 she's okay

00:56:50.500 and then she's going to start going for walks

00:56:54.280 out into the water and back again 0.99

00:56:57.480 out into the water and back again 1.00

00:56:59.040 she's going to learn to feed herself again 1.00

00:57:00.720 and avoid ships

00:57:02.500 and then that day will come 0.95

00:57:05.140 when her mother's going to go by and go

00:57:06.820 I know that voice

00:57:09.240 that is a healing moment

00:57:13.300 for the L-Pod

00:57:15.420 from a trauma that as you said

00:57:18.500 they have never gone back to Penn Cove again

00:57:20.460 they were traumatized

00:57:22.920 just like 1.00

00:57:23.640 native folks taken from family 1.00

00:57:26.940 and put in boarding schools

00:57:27.740 they were traumatized

00:57:28.660 her coming back to her family

00:57:33.800 will be a healing for that

00:57:36.280 pod

00:57:36.780 and they need it 0.99

00:57:39.940 because likely

00:57:42.180 they just lost another one

00:57:43.800 oh Kurt

00:57:47.520 I've just been

00:57:51.900 on mute crying

00:57:53.700 on the other end

00:57:54.920 yeah I do

00:57:59.360 I feel definitely

00:58:01.140 feeling speechless and I would just

00:58:02.920 like to offer

00:58:04.760 to you any way you feel like closing

00:58:07.200 this conversation

00:58:08.060 if you'd like to call out to

00:58:10.860 Taliqua and

00:58:12.360 Scarlett you know however

00:58:14.880 you wish to

00:58:15.900 close this conversation please

00:58:18.940 well that's hard that's a really hard

00:58:22.740 you know I

00:58:25.900 I had a dream about her

00:58:28.520 and though I don't

00:58:30.780 remember all the images in the dream

00:58:32.340 the felt sense

00:58:33.500 the felt memory sense of that

00:58:36.500 is what I would send back out

00:58:38.520 you know

00:58:40.860 for what it's

00:58:41.940 what it might mean

00:58:44.140 is that everything

00:58:48.540 is going to be fine

00:58:49.660 we're going to be alright

00:58:53.000 things will work out

00:58:55.820 because

00:58:57.700 like Scarlett 0.98

00:58:59.260 that fighter

00:59:01.160 that little fighter

00:59:04.140 we

00:59:05.000 we don't lose hope

00:59:07.660 Scarlett

00:59:09.600 we will

00:59:14.680 never lose

00:59:16.200 hope

00:59:17.980 well i will keep my prayers and energy towards scarlet and i

00:59:27.160 for those who will listen i ask you to do the same and kurt thank you so much for your love

00:59:37.200 and dedication to the sailor sea illumination and our more than human kin the black fish

00:59:46.680 um thank you for spending this time with us today and we'll continue staying abreast of what

00:59:55.420 is to come and take our actions from you all thank you and thank you to all listeners for for

01:00:06.000 listening

01:00:16.680 Thank you for listening to For the Wild podcast.

01:00:31.840 I'm Ayanna Young.

01:00:32.680 The music you heard today was by Mon Plaincer and Amoeba.

01:00:37.660 Our theme music is Silence Returns by Bo and Like a River from Kate Wolfe.

01:00:42.480 I'd like to thank our incredible production team

01:00:45.320 our producer and editor Andrew Storrs

01:00:47.720 our research collaborator and writer

01:00:50.220 Francesca Glassbell

01:00:51.400 and our media director Molly Lee Bove

01:00:53.760 and our music coordinator Carter Lou McElroy

01:00:56.480 follow us on Instagram at 4.the.wild

01:01:00.340 also find us at drip at d.rip

01:01:03.740 slash 4 dash the dash wild

01:01:05.880 and rate us on iTunes if you haven't already

01:01:08.420 alright thanks so much and until next time

01:01:12.480 sky on the concrete trails and wine, through the candles dark and white.

For The Wild - July 10, 2019

KURT RUSSO on the People Under the Sea ⌠ENCORE⌡ ⧸127

Episode Stats

Transcript