For The Wild - MICHAEL MARTINEZ on Transforming Waste Relations ⧸121

00:00:00.000 This podcast is brought to you through support from our partner, the Kalliopea Foundation.

00:00:05.120 The Kalliopea Foundation envisions a future grounded in compassion, respect, dignity,

00:00:11.100 reverence for nature, and care for each other in the earth.

00:00:13.960 To learn more, visit Kalliopea.org.

00:00:17.100 Welcome to For the Wild Podcast.

00:00:19.480 I'm Ayanna Young.

00:00:22.140 The soil, food, web, the micro and macro organisms deserve the majority of the praise,

00:00:26.640 and us humans get to really learn from the inner workings.

00:00:30.000 and really apply this new knowledge learned into other areas and aspects of our lives.

00:00:35.260 Today we are speaking with Michael Martinez.

00:00:38.440 Michael is a certified master gardener, a former elementary school teacher,

00:00:43.320 and the founder and executive director of LA Compost.

00:00:46.780 Michael has over eight years of experience building gardens and compost systems

00:00:51.380 throughout the county of Los Angeles, as well as other parts of the country.

00:00:55.400 Michael has grown LA compost from a group of volunteers collecting organics with bikes

00:01:01.700 to a decentralized network of community compost hubs that span across the most populated county

00:01:07.820 in the country well Michael thank you for being on the show I'm really looking forward to diving

00:01:16.860 into a big heap of compost in this conversation with you as I love compost I I watch the magnificence

00:01:24.240 that it creates in the soil. And I'm really looking forward to this conversation.

00:01:29.680 Awesome. Likewise, thank you so much for your time and for allowing this conversation to even

00:01:33.920 take place. Absolutely. Well, I'd love to begin our conversation both with a little more information

00:01:40.000 on the origins of LA compost, as well as talking about compost in relation to climate change.

00:01:47.380 So perhaps you can begin by recounting the impetus for starting LA compost back in 2013

00:01:53.800 and then share a little bit more on how composting increases carbon sequestration,

00:01:59.420 mitigates harmful emissions, and nourishes the resiliency of land in the face of both flooding

00:02:04.900 and drought. Yeah, absolutely. So born and raised in Los Angeles, I feel like the seeds of LA compost

00:02:13.160 were planted early on, but they kind of germinated while I was a teacher in Miami, Florida. I had the

00:02:19.280 opportunity to teach fifth grade reading and writing for a few years in Miami. And I would

00:02:24.660 always use garden symbols or metaphors just to kind of teach my kids the basics of reading and

00:02:32.460 writing proficiency. And one day I used kind of like a seed as an example of just themselves and

00:02:39.040 how they need to be watered and nurtured. And there's going to be things along the way that

00:02:43.160 might try to dig them up or weeds that try to choke their roots. And really just using the

00:02:48.220 seed as a metaphor to show them that once they blossom and bloom and or grow into a tree they

00:02:53.380 not only create life shade and protection for other things but they are part of this beautiful

00:02:57.480 ecosystem and these conversations kind of kept going and one day we were talking about plants

00:03:02.620 and food outside after after lunchtime and one of my students kind of just asked me Mr. Martinez

00:03:07.900 how do hot Cheetos grow and it was kind of a pause for me to to see if they were serious

00:03:14.940 when I quickly realized that they were, it was an opportunity for it to be a teachable moment

00:03:20.240 to follow up questions such as where do carrots come from? They pointed to the local supermarket

00:03:26.180 and I said, where do they get it from? They pointed to the local delivery truck and I said,

00:03:30.160 where did the delivery truck get it from? And there was a kind of a stop in the conversation

00:03:33.440 there as far as where food actually came from. We started a small garden in that elementary school

00:03:39.540 and it was nothing profound or beautiful in comparison to the many community gardens and

00:03:44.520 school gardens that are across the country but what it did was for the first time provided an

00:03:49.720 opportunity for students to construct their own knowledge feel like they're a part of something

00:03:53.480 bigger than themselves facilitate their learning and actually see a seed grow from seed to carrot

00:03:59.880 from seed to broccoli head and actually have a little sense of investment ownership and

00:04:04.840 appreciation for the story of food and for me that beautiful transformation of appreciating food

00:04:10.760 and understanding its entire story from seed to the table to the compost back to the seed

00:04:16.600 was really beautiful and that garden is still going to this day but la has always been home

00:04:22.600 it's where family is from it's where friends are it's where i consider my roots um so coming back

00:04:28.120 to la la compost started with this idea of how do we create that transformative experience to allow

00:04:32.840 people to appreciate and understand the entire cycle of food so we started on bikes collecting

00:04:39.080 food scraps from local restaurants, coffee shops, juice bars, and collect about 30,000 pounds in the

00:04:44.740 first few months. Compost it all in friends and family's backyards. The compost we created,

00:04:49.980 we gave away at farmers markets, the donations we received, we were able to build school gardens

00:04:54.320 with. And it was this really cool, awesome opportunity to talk about soil and compost and

00:05:00.060 nutrient-dense food all around with materials that we were often throwing away. In 2014,

00:05:06.120 we made the shift of not just being a service, but of actually creating centers and hubs that

00:05:11.660 engage and allow for active participation from the residents. So now we function in a more

00:05:17.380 decentralized community compost hubs. These hubs are in schools, churches, museums, community

00:05:21.880 gardens, art centers, housing projects, anywhere where there's food, people, and an opportunity for

00:05:27.380 compost education and application to take place. We can kind of build the compost infrastructure

00:05:33.360 and the educational platform for that to take place.

00:05:36.160 As a former teacher, I'm a firm believer

00:05:37.900 that education is only as strong as the opportunity

00:05:41.060 and access that you give the learner

00:05:43.340 to put in practice what was learned.

00:05:45.480 Oftentimes it can just become verbal junk mail

00:05:48.040 of telling people what they need to change

00:05:49.760 in their lifestyles or habits,

00:05:51.340 but giving them real life space and access

00:05:54.840 to put it into practice either in their backyard,

00:05:56.960 in their school, in their church or community garden

00:05:58.640 has been really life-giving and a real beautiful thing.

00:06:03.360 And oftentimes with the climate change conversation, here specifically in California and Los Angeles, we experienced some catastrophic fires this past year, as well as some mudslides and flooding shortly after with the rains.

00:06:18.100 And it's all related to the health of our soil and the health of our climate here within the Los Angeles County.

00:06:26.220 Compost does a ton of good, which you mentioned in regards to carbon sequestration, to the

00:06:30.480 natural process of photosynthesis and uptaking carbon and storing it in the ground, as well

00:06:35.600 as building some nice porosity and structure in the soil so that when it does rain, it's

00:06:40.940 not just falling on cement, but porous sponge-like soil that can retain that water, hold that

00:06:46.100 water, as well as filter a lot of the pollutants within that water as well.

00:06:50.080 Oftentimes people kind of can feel hopeless because it's such a big issue of whether we're

00:06:55.420 talking about global warming or just food systems or droughts and watersheds. But what's beautiful

00:07:01.860 and what we've seen with this work is that we're really establishing this human network,

00:07:05.740 that individual acts of good, whether it's diverting food scraps at your local community

00:07:11.800 garden, whether it's doing it at home, whether it's working with food recovery agencies,

00:07:16.440 the effects that has over time when you actually look at it from a macro level is really incredible.

00:07:22.320 Someone's three pounds dropped off at a farmer's market might not seem much, but the fact that

00:07:26.700 every market is diverting a thousand pounds, the fact that every hub is diverting X amount

00:07:31.480 of tons per year.

00:07:32.540 And little by little, you start to see this beautiful array of people doing good and actually

00:07:38.040 having a collective impact because changing culture, routines, and habits isn't a microwave

00:07:43.560 approach.

00:07:44.220 It can't happen overnight.

00:07:46.200 So it's definitely an approach we've taken of engaging with the community, showing the

00:07:51.300 good that they are already doing, adding value to existing programs at our hub locations and

00:07:56.760 understanding that it's an all hands on deck collective effort needed to really make the

00:08:01.740 changes that are needed in the communities that we're serving. I don't like the word hope, but it

00:08:06.900 feels hopeful hearing these stories of regeneration and community involvement and that we really need

00:08:13.200 to get out of this idea that things are too small or it's not enough or our one three pounds of

00:08:21.220 compost doesn't really make a difference when it does these small acts that are individually ours

00:08:28.540 our responsibility and when we can come together in coalition and community and make a difference

00:08:34.980 i think it instills a sense of ownership like you were saying when people can invest in the seed to

00:08:41.640 broccoli head and really see the beauty in that and also understand exactly how much their

00:08:48.800 contribution really matters. And I think it's a really good message for all of us. Sometimes the

00:08:54.180 urgency and the monstrosity of the issues keeps us from actually getting involved in little ways

00:09:00.740 because we think it won't matter when it does. And so I really appreciate hearing your stories.

00:09:06.400 And it's twofold. It's how do we play well with others, understanding that it's going to require

00:09:10.120 a holistic approach from all parties involved from haulers municipalities individuals communities

00:09:15.380 etc but how do we look at the food in like a hierarchy lens right as far as like it's not

00:09:21.640 just purchase food and compost but it's like source reduction it's edible food rescue and

00:09:26.280 feeding people first who are actually hungry it's home composting it's it's it's it's really looking

00:09:31.480 at it um and and understanding food has high value even when we consider it no longer having

00:09:37.520 value in our own households and yeah it's definitely a matter of it's not going to be one

00:09:41.880 singular solution that's going to change the game it's going to require diversified holistic approach

00:09:48.580 from decentralized and centralized and micro and macro level approaches and unfortunately there's

00:09:54.340 enough waste and problems to go around for everyone to really tackle and chew off a bit of it

00:09:59.180 absolutely but i agree with you it's i don't like to just throw hope out there but it is

00:10:04.620 very much life-giving to see humans showing humanity and recognizing that we don't just

00:10:11.520 have to forget about the issue or say, well, it's too big for us. Let's just hope that it goes the

00:10:17.620 way I hope it goes kind of thing, but actually making real life changes in our communities. And

00:10:22.280 some of the communities that we work with don't have a political voice or don't have

00:10:26.100 the purchasing power or opportunities and access to change their specific climates and systems as

00:10:33.200 well. And when you talk about resiliency or climate change or disasters, communities of

00:10:38.880 color and disadvantaged communities are oftentimes, not oftentimes, are always the

00:10:42.740 communities who are given resources last or are not well prepared to handle those. So how do we

00:10:49.820 build resiliency within the community on a block by block, zip code by zip code level of just

00:10:55.160 educating, equipping, empowering people to know what they're capable of doing. And we're seeing

00:11:00.600 that and it's it's really beautiful i want to talk about the statistics around food waste as

00:11:07.400 we've mentioned it a few times so far and looking at the statistics they just continue to be

00:11:14.300 outrageous for example the agricultural industry in this country has to use over 20 of our fresh

00:11:20.980 water supply to grow the amount of food that ends up getting thrown away in fact food waste is one

00:11:26.840 of the biggest occupants in our landfills. So I'd really like to open up this conversation to you

00:11:32.820 either in terms of the grave disparity you see in LA between the amount of food that is thrown away

00:11:38.360 versus the percentage of residents who struggle to feed themselves and their families, or in regards

00:11:44.080 to why our government fails to address this issue through policy. And I just want to say comparatively,

00:11:49.500 France banned supermarkets from throwing away food and Germany is completely reforming their

00:11:53.900 expiration date system. So why are we so resistant towards centering conversations around food waste?

00:12:02.060 I think it's kind of twofold. From the stats you've listed, it is pretty insane to think that

00:12:09.000 40 to 50% of all the food that we grow kind of just goes straight to the trash. And here in LA,

00:12:14.780 it's about one in six or one in seven Angelenos don't know where their next meal is going to come

00:12:18.500 from. I think we have this idea of perfection of what food should look like in some areas. We've

00:12:25.480 kind of been conditioned to go to a supermarket or a grocery store and see carrots look shiny or

00:12:31.160 apples waxed and polished. And when carrots are hugging or lemons have pimples or tomatoes are

00:12:38.600 partially not in the same form or shape in which we're accustomed or expect them to be, we consider

00:12:44.920 those is not having the same amount of value as something that is perfect or whole. And I think

00:12:49.700 that's affected the farmers in a lot of ways in the sense that there's a lot of waste if a character

00:12:54.080 is too small or apple is misformed. So there's a lot of waste on that end. And then there's a lot

00:12:59.060 of waste from the fact that there's so much energy, as you mentioned, water, gas, human power

00:13:04.580 to actually harvest and clean and wash and chop and prep, and then actually getting to the place

00:13:10.000 where it's sold, there's a ton of waste there as well. And what's insane here in Los Angeles is

00:13:16.000 we have one of the largest produce hubs here in downtown Los Angeles, where a lot of wholesale

00:13:21.240 food comes every morning from different farmers in the central northern areas of the state.

00:13:26.320 Yet all that food passes by one of the most highest concentrated homeless population and

00:13:30.720 food insecure populations every morning as well. So there's a huge issue of the amount of energy

00:13:35.660 and resources that we're putting into this, as well as the amount of energy and resources that

00:13:40.260 we're putting into actually disposing of this food, as well as a ton of energy and resources

00:13:44.420 into actually trying to figure out what to do with food insecure individuals. And I think

00:13:48.380 from the policy standpoint, a lot of times it's fear-based from supermarkets, grocery stores,

00:13:54.300 and even small coffee shops. We really put our entire being and trust into expiration dates,

00:14:01.280 which is pretty absurd. But being in a Sioux-heavy state like California, I feel like 1.00

00:14:07.220 there's always the concern of the liabilities of if I were to donate food and someone were to get 1.00

00:14:11.900 sick, then I am liable for that. And I don't want to take that risk. So I'd rather just be safe and

00:14:17.420 throw it away. But there's the Good Samaritan Act. There's an incredible amount of good work

00:14:22.540 happening here in Los Angeles to actually put business owners, restaurants, and other organizations

00:14:28.820 that can donate edible produce at ease

00:14:31.080 and allowing them to know

00:14:32.660 and setting them up with the right resources

00:14:34.300 with organizations that can capture that food

00:14:36.960 and get it to the appropriate communities and individuals.

00:14:41.220 But it's multi-tiered from the actual farm

00:14:44.760 to where the food is sold

00:14:46.480 to how it's disposed and where it goes

00:14:48.880 and how far it travels.

00:14:50.480 So yeah, whenever we teach workshops,

00:14:53.400 I always talk about lawns

00:14:54.900 and how the function of the lawn,

00:14:57.660 we spend so much water to fertilize and water and pay someone to mow it and blow it and make

00:15:03.620 it look pretty and then we pay someone to dispose it when the very piece of grass itself has the

00:15:09.280 nutrients and water to support the growth of that lawn and I think of food is just like how do we

00:15:14.480 build systems in place and again connect the appropriate partners and parties involved too

00:15:20.440 to really close these gaps and bridge these areas that that don't have to exist for as long as they

00:15:27.600 had. Thank you for that. I just want to also read one more quote that I was found in The Guardian

00:15:34.060 about a report that was released last week. And it was that roughly 50% of all produce in the

00:15:40.120 United States is thrown away, some 60 million tons, or $160 billion worth of produce annually,

00:15:47.600 an amount constituting one third of all foodstuff. So this is a huge, huge issue that is

00:15:54.780 overlooked and I'm really grateful that you are not overlooking them and I think there's a very

00:16:01.920 few of us thinking about where our food comes from but really even less we're thinking about

00:16:08.620 where our food is ending up and the total disregard is a manifestation of our culture

00:16:14.680 of disposability so I'm wondering how is LA compost seeking to retell the story of food

00:16:21.920 in terms of its purpose and its function beyond just the plate? And what is the cultural work

00:16:27.020 that needs to be done around our understanding of waste and trash? And why is food waste really

00:16:33.580 the perfect place to start doing that? I think it's the perfect place to start

00:16:37.980 the conversation because it's the common denominator of what we all practice. It doesn't

00:16:41.740 matter how you look, where you live, what your social location is, or what you believe. We all

00:16:45.420 eat hopefully um one or two or a few times during the week and it naturally allows for that

00:16:52.120 conversation to be had and and to your point we always like to start our workshops with there is

00:16:57.060 no such thing as a way you know we we've been conditioned to this process of putting materials

00:17:03.340 in a black blue green brown whatever color bin we have it gets picked up on a certain day and then

00:17:08.080 it's it's gone and then we feel great you know um it's because it's not in our backyard it's not in

00:17:13.300 our landscape. It's out of sight, out of mind. We don't think about it. But as we know, that's not

00:17:18.500 the case. It's traveling very far away. It's traveling to certain communities where it has

00:17:22.540 to be sorted. Then it's probably transferred even further away where it's affecting communities

00:17:27.140 where its final destination is located as well. I grew up not too far from the Puente Hills

00:17:32.020 landfill here in LA County, which before it closed down, it was one of the largest landfills in the

00:17:36.940 country. So I think it's really important for us to start talking about this linear economy

00:17:43.060 specifically this disposable economy and culture that we're in we we buy we use we waste and we

00:17:49.460 start over and how do we start to transition to more of a circular economy where it's where it's

00:17:54.840 buy use fix repair share exchange and and looking at things as having value and extending the value

00:18:01.660 of things and when it comes to food there is always value in food no matter what stage of

00:18:06.940 life you're looking at it. So the thing is, we can implement a lot of policies where everyone

00:18:12.960 has to start composting as of yesterday, but then the conversation has to come up of, well,

00:18:17.500 where do we take it? And here in LA County, that's kind of what we're running into. We want to compost

00:18:23.980 because there's state policy and bans that are going to require us to perform organics diversion

00:18:29.500 from landfills. But where are the sites and locations that we can actually compost? The county

00:18:34.460 at the moment, even with the proposed facility, still has a shortfall of about 1,500 tons per day

00:18:40.060 of organics that are unaccounted for. Here in LA, we have kind of three sites, one site that can

00:18:45.500 process kind of manures and mulches, one site that's on the west side that is Hyperion wastewater

00:18:50.660 treatment, and we have like Griffith Park and a bunch of transfer stations. But we're trying to

00:18:55.900 look at infrastructure on all levels and not just large, large tech-based infrastructure. We

00:19:01.100 understand that's needed, but there's something about managing waste and creating solutions for

00:19:07.840 food scraps and seeing it not as waste, but as a resource. And that happens at the individual level

00:19:13.080 who's actually creating this excess to begin with. Because if all we're doing is focusing on

00:19:18.380 the infrastructure that's needed to manage and process this material, but not focused on the

00:19:24.720 individual consumers who are actually creating this to begin with, then we're playing backwards

00:19:30.140 here. So we understand the cities need to be involved, the counties and states and local

00:19:35.660 haulers need to be involved, but the consumer and individual communities need to be at the forefront

00:19:40.320 of this conversation as well. And yes, we're not producing the same amount of compost or finished

00:19:45.740 product as a large farm or a compost facility that has the space and acreage and staff to do so,

00:19:53.220 but there's something really powerful about changing the habits and routines of an individual

00:19:58.480 that over time, as I mentioned earlier, has a collective impact across the county.

00:20:05.620 A lot of people living in LA aren't from LA.

00:20:08.220 So when they come to LA, they say, well, my city had this kind of composting set up.

00:20:12.580 I'm really surprised that LA is kind of really behind on this.

00:20:15.320 And we're really working with them to provide them with options and solutions.

00:20:18.800 And now engaging with the city to see how we can support and partner with their pilot

00:20:23.380 programs as well.

00:20:24.800 But it's all about telling the story of food.

00:20:28.040 And Robert Egger always said, neither food nor people should ever go to waste.

00:20:32.220 And really circling it back and using food in the compost pile to be somewhat of a mirror

00:20:37.060 for their own lives and their own journeys and understanding that we are all broken,

00:20:41.580 we are all incomplete, but it's the collective brokenness and collective incompleteness of our

00:20:46.900 little zip codes and communities that allows us to go on the path of wholeness and creating

00:20:52.120 something that is good and is of value.

00:20:53.720 And we always use the compost pile as that metaphor and teaching tool and symbol to represent the communities that we're trying to create, communities that are resilient, communities that are selfless, communities that are willing to share and exchange and participate in this inhale-exhale process of as much as you learn and are equipped with new knowledge and skills and information, being able to transfer that and pour that out to someone else.

00:21:18.480 But if we were to just focus on the lack of infrastructure and the doom and gloom of the world, then not a lot of people would be encouraged to participate.

00:21:28.120 But I'm really excited about just the way in which this is growing, not only in Los Angeles, but across the country and other parts of the world as well, of decentralized networks of community composters working hand in hand with municipalities, youth, haulers, cities and counties to really look at food with a new lens.

00:21:58.120 It comes as quickly as it goes

00:22:03.880 I wonder why it ever came at all

00:22:10.000 Will it teach you? Can it reach you?

00:22:14.940 Does it need to?

00:22:18.640 Hear no evil, speak no evil, see no evil

00:22:22.140 Hear no evil, speak no evil, see no evil

00:22:26.780 Hear no evil, speak no evil, see no evil

00:22:31.700 Ooh

00:22:33.440 Hear no babies scream in fits of rage

00:22:50.820 See no parade of the days of rage

00:22:55.400 Speak no evil, it will only come back to haunt you

00:23:02.840 Be an optimist, baby 1.00

00:23:11.060 When shit is driving you crazy 0.99

00:23:15.720 And you're wondering what's gonna come next, what'll come next 1.00

00:23:20.840 What's gonna come next, what'll come next

00:23:23.000 When the community is involved and projects are decentralized, the community can also

00:23:42.080 act as a watchdog to what the government or these bigger entities are doing in terms of

00:23:48.180 compost remediation, water management, any of those things. Because if we're not going to get

00:23:54.020 involved behind the curtain, and we're just going to say, oh, I hope they're doing a good job,

00:23:59.080 we've seen that there hasn't been a lot of good jobs being done, or we wouldn't be in the position

00:24:03.940 that we're in. And so I think community involvement in that way is really important, too, that we

00:24:08.440 actually understand what are the processes being done behind what I like to call the curtain,

00:24:15.980 or whatever we want to call it and so there's there's so much benefit for people getting

00:24:22.360 involved with la compost and the work that y'all are doing i feel like we could go down a rabbit

00:24:29.380 hole of how one thing can lead to another can lead to another and i also been thinking the

00:24:35.300 whole idea of composting it's not new or a fringe idea it's this practical solution that has been

00:24:41.960 referenced in texts like the Bhagavad Gita and many ancient Chinese scripts. In fact, it's known

00:24:47.800 that the Egyptians were early composters and that Cleopatra even declared earthworms sacred upon

00:24:53.400 witnessing their composting abilities, making the removal or injury of earthworms punishable by

00:24:59.060 death. So it's really incredible just to look back at humans' relationship to compost for

00:25:06.440 thousands of years. And then I look at groups like LA Compost, and while composting itself

00:25:12.460 is nothing new, I think what you all are doing with highlighting the relationship between

00:25:20.120 composting and community is something that's so important. And I guess I'm just wondering,

00:25:26.800 how does composting make visible the beauty of decomposition or the inherent value of community

00:25:32.620 members yeah and i think it's it's taking this backyard practice for so many years and putting

00:25:38.600 it in the front yard and putting it at the street and eye level of people to see it as something

00:25:43.680 that isn't just we have to work on demystifying the process of compost and what it is because

00:25:49.800 oftentimes when i ask what is compost people say manure or flies or raccoons or a lot of scary

00:25:55.460 images come when people think of composting but what we get to do is we kind of work on building

00:26:00.180 large piles too at some larger centers to allow for community activation and turning like community

00:26:05.580 turn days but what's what's nice is when you look at the compost process it's it's focusing kind of

00:26:11.520 like on death decay decomposition towards something new and we typically look at food scraps or

00:26:18.120 materials that we use in our piles as as us in a lot of ways you know it's it's going back to

00:26:24.420 the conversation of we're all dealing with something and it's the collective prunings

00:26:30.000 or the collective not whole or imperfect materials that come and work together and go through this

00:26:36.540 heat decay process with a lot of macro and microorganisms involved. And out on the other

00:26:42.700 end, it doesn't look like what was initially put in. And I think in our own journeys, we're all

00:26:48.180 dealing with our internal composting journey or process as well. There's things that we have to

00:26:52.360 let go in our lives. There's things that can sometimes be taking more life from us. So when

00:26:59.580 I talk about the compost pile, I always try to say that we're looking into the community as well.

00:27:06.180 It's this beautiful image of community coexisting well to create something that is life-giving,

00:27:14.560 that protects soil, that stores and holds water, and making it visible, allowing a kid to take a

00:27:21.700 break from the iPhone and hold a few hundred worms. And it's always beautiful when there's

00:27:26.000 that transfer of life with the child and worms because they kind of malfunction. It's like,

00:27:31.000 we're so overstimulated today, but when you just kind of hold worms and see them move

00:27:36.060 throughout your hands, it's a beautiful pause for kids or adults to be reminded of their humanity

00:27:46.080 and understand that we don't have to be in a park or a forest or anywhere to experience nature.

00:27:51.000 nature is all around us and in a Los Angeles environment that we cover cover our soils in

00:27:56.480 brick concrete asphalt cement and concrete allowing them to to remember soil and compost and

00:28:02.560 and the relation that we have with it and and it's really beautiful when people kind of have

00:28:07.200 the aha moments both in person with us but also like a week or two after and our job isn't to

00:28:14.340 create communities that are solely dependent on our systems our job is to really disciple and

00:28:19.260 and work with community partners to to be educated and empowered to be able to do this work on their

00:28:25.240 own i never like to use master composter or or anything like that because i am such a student

00:28:33.000 of this game in so many ways you know i did not create this term this has been going on for

00:28:38.020 for as far back as we can can look and research but getting to work with so many communities

00:28:43.240 across la i am constantly learning about the process about their techniques about how they

00:28:48.760 applied in their garden or landscape. And it's this beautiful transfer of knowledge that's always

00:28:53.840 coming that I'm always be able to participate. And what's also nice is that I don't manage all

00:28:59.360 the hubs. We have an incredible team where we've hired from within the communities. So our hub

00:29:05.960 managers manage clusters of hubs that are from the communities that they either have worked in for

00:29:11.400 many years or that they've kind of been born and raised in. So although I'm from LA, I can't claim

00:29:17.000 all of Los Angeles. So it's nice to still have this decentralized model where we can have lead

00:29:23.800 garden, like compost stewards that can help facilitate conversations, but not just be seen

00:29:28.780 as the one-all be-all experts, but really allow for knowledge and new information to be shared

00:29:36.000 and learned. But it really is just demystifying what compost is, the power it has, what it looks

00:29:41.460 like from food scraps to cooking to finished and, and really putting people's minds and hearts at

00:29:47.920 ease, understanding that it's not scary. It's beneficial. It's something that they can

00:29:52.340 participate as much or as little as they'd like to, whether it's dropping off food scraps at one

00:29:57.220 of our drop-off locations, whether it's volunteering or whether it's doing what we

00:30:00.940 hope everyone does. And that's trying to compost in their own space and landscape. So

00:30:05.860 i'd like to transition towards a conversation on the benefits of being an intimate relationship

00:30:12.720 with soil as well as the practicality of soil health so perhaps we can begin with the latter

00:30:19.520 you know it's no surprise that land degradation and soil infertility are serious concerns for

00:30:26.620 example last year it was reported that we are losing fertile soil at a rate of 24 billion metric

00:30:33.580 tons per year, mainly due to industrial agricultural practices. But a lesser talked about issue is the

00:30:40.520 quality of soil that surrounds us in our day-to-day life. Much of the soil in this country is

00:30:45.380 contaminated with lead, arsenic, old paint, gasoline, and other heavy metals. So I was wondering

00:30:52.320 if you could speak to the toxicity of soil in communities across the country

00:30:56.780 in relationship to the work you do in aiding the creation of nutrient-rich soils.

00:31:02.420 yeah we always like to kind of have the conversation around everything that is alive

00:31:08.120 has protection or a covering in some in some way humans have skin birds have feathers fish have

00:31:14.880 scales bears have fur but sometimes we forget that the soil is alive and that the soil requires

00:31:22.620 protection or covering either in the form of some type of organic matter or material such as mulch

00:31:27.000 compost. So we like to talk about the many co-benefits that compost has, especially in

00:31:32.480 urban environments, when we talk about just how compost improves the biological, chemical,

00:31:38.140 and physical characteristics of soil. And the list goes on. We talk about how it enhances plant

00:31:43.480 disease suppression. We talked about how it can support the defense against erosion, and as well

00:31:50.700 as kind of that resilience model of when it does rain, how it's able to store. But the ability to

00:31:58.020 improve water retention, the soil structure, and its ability to just serve as that filter and sponge

00:32:04.360 to kind of immobilize pollutants and really improve water quality is huge. But it's really

00:32:10.820 allowing people to see the many benefits and seeing how those benefits kind of work and play

00:32:16.820 in their environment, whether it's in their parkways, in their backyards, in their container

00:32:22.300 gardens. And, you know, there's been a lot of studies in regards to just like fungi and the

00:32:28.040 mycology and how like toxic soils and certain microbes can actually bind these materials. But

00:32:35.540 you know, it's just, as a former elementary school teacher, I try to just simplify it as

00:32:43.220 much as I can in regards to things that are alive need covering. Compost has all these benefits.

00:32:49.960 We can create it in our communities for free, and it is a resource that we can keep in our

00:32:56.960 communities to support the life underneath our feet, in the air, and on the ground in these ways.

00:33:05.940 We work with a housing project, which to me is one of the most life-giving hubs that we have,

00:33:11.980 because it was mothers who were sick and tired of their plants being sprayed with chemicals and

00:33:18.760 their gardens being torn out. So they created a gated community garden and now they grow a large

00:33:26.800 portion of their own food. They have a compost bin, a worm bin, they have Monday workshops and

00:33:32.220 potlucks. And to me, when you go there, it's often not the nicest of places when you start

00:33:41.760 when you look at housing and infrastructure, but when you're in that garden, you're in a slice,

00:33:46.160 you have this beautiful oasis that they created themselves and made a beautiful reality for them

00:33:52.480 to function. Even there's schools in South Los Angeles where you have planes flying over every

00:33:57.140 30 seconds. You have to kind of go on a scavenger hunt to find a tree. There's not a lot of greenery,

00:34:03.260 but one of our hubs, there's several partners that have worked on creating native gardens,

00:34:08.280 when growing compost, worm bins, orchards, and really allowing these youth to participate in

00:34:14.480 the benefits that compost has in relation to the ecosystem and space that they've created.

00:34:20.520 But yeah, I'm always blown away that the deeper I dive into the benefits of compost and what it

00:34:26.040 can do, even from just a stress relief, kind of being able to breathe and be still and not think

00:34:31.980 about all the bills and complexities of life. There have been studies of just the way in which

00:34:38.140 it serves also as a de-stressure when you kind of breathe or are in this space. And I always

00:34:43.380 relate it to when you're able to go on a hike in the forest or in nature after rain or just

00:34:48.780 even away from the noise of streets and freeways. And our staff, our volunteers, the people we work

00:34:57.420 with always leave the space feeling full, not because we're feeding them, but because of

00:35:03.220 the activity and the presence that compost has and the energy and the transfer of energy that's

00:35:08.980 taking place in that space. I was just about to ask you about the intangible impacts of working

00:35:19.180 with compost. And it was perfect timing about how you were talking about the de-stressing

00:35:24.820 qualities, because I was also reading that there are psychological health benefits,

00:35:32.000 specifically bacteria found in soils work similarly to antidepressants and you know as

00:35:38.760 you were saying especially those who are living in urban areas with the noise and the freeways

00:35:43.340 most people are severely removed from any interaction and connection with soil but

00:35:49.700 getting our hands dirty has really proven to not just be good for the earth but for us for our

00:35:55.520 communities and i would love if you could speak more to the importance of reclaiming historic

00:36:00.680 and ancestral relationships to the earth, especially in urban spaces.

00:36:05.960 Yeah, I feel really privileged and fortunate to be able to witness and experience the ways in which

00:36:12.040 many communities we work with engage with the land and engage with nature and their microclimates.

00:36:20.340 I also have a two-year-old son who gets to join me and visit a lot of these hubs. And

00:36:25.900 it is normal for him to dive into a big pile of compost it is normal for him to grab

00:36:31.540 a handful of worms or bite off a head of broccoli that is already flowering in our garden and

00:36:37.020 it's it's really great to to see the ways in which we're reconnecting to what is so natural to us

00:36:46.080 you know um we're not trying to just create these grounding experiences where people just

00:36:52.780 you know take off their shoes and jump in the compost pile it's no it's it's a lot of work

00:36:57.780 involved and in the natural sifting and turning and watering and mulching and and chopping people

00:37:03.500 are getting dirty people are uh touching the compost it's what's always nice is when a group

00:37:08.660 of 20 college volunteers start with gloves in their hands and then by the end only about four

00:37:13.700 of them still have gloves and the rest of them are just bare hand in the soil sifting and turning

00:37:17.640 and engaging, asking questions. What's this bug? What's this white spider web looking thing? And

00:37:24.380 it's always a teachable moment to really engage with people. And the aha moments, as I said,

00:37:29.560 are typically happening there, but it's always nice to get the email afterwards and hear that

00:37:35.060 they had a great experience and that they want to participate again. But I always enjoy seeing how

00:37:42.940 people engage with the compost. Some volunteers, it's kind of the replacement for the gym

00:37:49.400 membership in a lot of ways because of the physical energy that's actually going into

00:37:53.980 turning these large piles and managing these large piles. I personally haven't gotten a cold

00:37:59.500 in like five or six years. And I'd be lying if I said I knew the science behind that. But

00:38:03.660 being around the amount of bacteria and fungi and soil food that I am around, I can't imagine that

00:38:10.360 it's, I imagine it's partially because of that. And it's, it's really great to see people not

00:38:17.580 only engaging with our spaces that we create, but bringing the stories of their own home or

00:38:22.160 their own community or their family's homes and how it relates to the experience they're having

00:38:26.460 and these spaces that we have as well. What's so nice about every single one of our hubs is that

00:38:30.940 it's in partnership with a, with an existing organization. So we're not coming to say what

00:38:37.160 to change or how to do certain things. We're adding value to what's already going on. So

00:38:42.080 we oftentimes get to come into a space, whether it's a community garden church or art center,

00:38:48.720 and there's already beautiful interactions with the soil, with the native plants, with the trees

00:38:54.500 and shrubs that are going on. So we just get to add another element for people to get involved

00:38:59.420 with that. Just like other urban areas across the country, LA has not been designed to be

00:39:08.000 an energy efficient city or community oriented or sustainable city really in any most ways. But

00:39:17.060 in other ways, this has actually empowered, not discouraged a variety of groups and initiatives

00:39:22.800 to create regenerative and sustainable resource cycles. I'm even thinking of the ongoing movement

00:39:29.140 to soften our cities where communities in Detroit, Portland, and Nashville, and I'm sure others are

00:39:35.280 reimagining concrete heavy spaces with urban gardens and graveled pathways. And this is not

00:39:41.840 only an aesthetically pleasing movement, it's also really a form of climate adaptation in the sense

00:39:46.880 that cement pavement contributes to heavier flooding and toxic storm water runoff. So I'd

00:39:52.840 really like to talk to you about what it means to reclaim city spaces for ourselves and how the

00:39:58.400 so-called greening of a community is also community empowerment, especially in the context

00:40:04.140 of structural inequality. Absolutely. I always internally feel like I can determine the wealth

00:40:11.360 of a neighborhood based off its tree canopy or just the amount of green space. Some neighborhoods

00:40:16.020 you're always walking in shade or others you're walking either in the shade of an airplane or

00:40:20.900 power lines or something along those areas. But there's some really beautiful organizations here

00:40:25.920 in Los Angeles that are doing just that, that are reclaiming underutilized vacant lots, parking lots,

00:40:32.080 alleyways, and turning them into spaces where communities can coexist and engage with them

00:40:39.900 in a new way. Lot to Spot comes to mind. Los Angeles Neighborhood Land Trust comes to mind.

00:40:45.800 They're working on really creating beautiful areas where people can be proud of their neighborhoods

00:40:50.600 and have access to more green spaces

00:40:53.800 because there are plenty of parks across LA,

00:40:58.200 but there's definitely not enough

00:40:59.900 and there can always be more green spaces.

00:41:01.440 So I'm always encouraged to your point

00:41:03.760 of these organizations that are transforming

00:41:06.600 these vacant lot, these properties

00:41:08.020 that allow for communities to engage

00:41:09.880 in a much deeper way.

00:41:13.080 And we just get to participate in that as well.

00:41:16.100 There's organizations like Los Angeles

00:41:17.680 Community Garden Council that supports

00:41:19.500 the growth and upkeep in community gardens.

00:41:22.940 And we are able to kind of work alongside of them

00:41:25.540 and establish community compost hubs

00:41:27.940 to support the soil health

00:41:30.140 and the compost creation in those spaces.

00:41:33.220 But I think even with the city,

00:41:35.160 they've also come out with these specific policies

00:41:39.400 that encourage landowners who have vacant properties

00:41:42.560 to use them or to encourage

00:41:45.580 urban agricultural incentive zones

00:41:48.040 to give those property owners a tax incentive break

00:41:51.180 if they were to lend their vacant lot or property

00:41:53.620 to be used for greening, food-growing purposes.

00:41:57.140 And although I haven't seen a ton of people

00:41:59.220 utilize this program, it is still new

00:42:02.280 and I'm encouraged that that even exists.

00:42:04.420 So I think we definitely are thinking of LA

00:42:06.840 in a new light to your point.

00:42:08.200 We're not just a vacant lot altogether,

00:42:11.380 but there are pockets of goodness

00:42:13.580 that can be rethought, reimagined,

00:42:15.820 transformed into something that is life-giving. And again, I think it contributes to the

00:42:20.120 decentralized model that we're working in. We're mimicking the soil food web in that it's all

00:42:25.500 about partnerships. It's all about sharing and passing of nutrients. It's all about working

00:42:30.400 together as small as we are for this bigger picture that is Los Angeles, 10 million people.

00:42:45.820 I've been thinking, dang it hard.

00:42:49.960 I've been thinking, oh, help me learn.

00:43:10.340 I'm so tired, so I'm wired.

00:43:14.080 Claremont sent rent through the fire

00:43:17.940 I spent my day, I spent my night

00:43:21.980 Far away, far from the light

00:43:26.380 Afraid to speak a word of truth, afraid to know

00:43:30.300 My brothers died, sisters cried, and souls won't go

00:43:34.500 What can we do, can we do, change the tune

00:43:38.540 Even if you break one, the earth won't be

00:43:42.740 I've been working, working hard

00:43:47.140 I've been working, oh tell me Lord

00:43:51.260 I've been thinking, thinking hard

00:43:55.420 I've been thinking, oh tell me Lord

00:43:59.820 Tell me Lord

00:44:04.860 Tell me Lord

00:44:10.540 As much as this is about self-realization and community creation, I'm still really interested

00:44:24.660 in the role of local governments, especially seeing how structures like the Department of

00:44:29.160 Sanitation are key players in networks of waste relations. And I wonder if you have thoughts on

00:44:34.880 creative ways of partnering with state policymakers or state-sponsored programs

00:44:40.640 to tackle large food waste issues. And also whether or not you think it's feasible for

00:44:47.060 local governments to start incentivizing home and community compost in terms of providing training

00:44:52.040 or guidance, equipment, or even, I don't know, tax write-offs. Yeah, we're a little bit involved

00:44:58.840 with everything. From the national macro level, we are on the steering committee with the Institute

00:45:04.320 local self-reliance which is based on the east coast and they're kind of the big facilitators

00:45:09.460 around community composting for a lot of the community composters across the country we kind

00:45:14.460 of are participants and helped form the california alliance for community composters which works with

00:45:20.140 composters from the bay area down to san diego and and between and really working on assembly and

00:45:27.320 and and assembly bills that that we feel like we can support and and and work with and then at the

00:45:33.600 local level, we're also working with the Board of Public Works and in conversations with sanitation,

00:45:38.560 both in City Hall, in participation with the Food Waste Task Force, as well as at the community

00:45:44.360 level as well. But the thing is, there's blueprints for this to work. We're not recreating the wheel,

00:45:50.920 one with compost or with municipalities working in partnership with nonprofits. I think

00:45:55.680 New York is an incredible model to look at as far as how their sanitation department is working

00:46:01.000 with nonprofits to manage resources locally, to manage food scraps locally through both their

00:46:07.020 farmers market drop-off programs, through their decentralized hubs as well that are able to

00:46:13.440 process in creative spaces like under the Brooklyn Bridge and different areas throughout New York

00:46:18.240 City. And I think LA is right around the corner of implementing something similar. Not carbon copy

00:46:23.900 because we are not New York and New York is not LA, but something that fits our needs. And

00:46:27.640 I think sanitation is, one, sees the state mandated goals that Cal Recycle is putting forward, but two, also realizing that it's going to take all hands on deck and creative approaches to really meet these demands and requirements.

00:46:42.460 So LA Sanitation is already kind of implementing some pilot programs, and we are deep in discussion with them to see how we can further work together because this work is, you can't work in silos in this work.

00:46:57.500 Collaboration, partnership, and being able to play well with one another is absolutely needed.

00:47:02.440 And I think there's so many benefits to working well and playing well with one another.

00:47:08.120 As I mentioned earlier, unfortunately, there's enough food and organic material to go around, and I think there needs to be incentives for community composting because we are in the public eye.

00:47:19.080 We are the human piece of this larger puzzle, and we are assisting in the overall goals that the state is putting out as well.

00:47:27.680 So I think CalRecycle, the state governing agency, has come a long way and has really seen the importance of community composting.

00:47:36.660 It's a matter of us community composters to define what it is we do, what our best management practices look like, how we are non-threatening, and how we actually can be seen as a benefit to the work of larger haulers and municipalities as well.

00:47:50.280 Regarding an article that recently came out that talked about how privileged communities, essentially suburban, middle class, white people are actually going to accumulate wealth via climate change, exacerbated natural disasters, and so forth.

00:48:07.660 So I'd really like to introduce into this conversation, as well as in terms of how it's imperative for communities to begin asserting their own sustainability, their own empowerment and protections, as we know that injustice and discrimination will not only continue in the era of climate change, it may very well get stronger.

00:48:29.660 Absolutely. Absolutely. And it's a matter of not waiting for certain things to be done in our

00:48:34.620 communities, but understanding the power and potential that we have collectively, zip code

00:48:38.860 by zip code, square mile, block by block in our hands to change certain things. And there's one

00:48:46.200 thing about wealth and how we look and define wealth, but creating wealth through our soils

00:48:51.680 is one of the best things that I think we can create, whether it's supporting stressed trees

00:48:57.300 and our parkways eliminating 60 to 95 percent of groundwater pollutants when it rains to just

00:49:04.040 the air that it changes to to the to the even just being able to to know your neighbor's name

00:49:11.200 and and see each other i think at the most simplest way of thinking about it absolutely it's it's a

00:49:18.140 matter of really equipping communities of color disadvantaged communities communities that don't

00:49:23.120 have the resources of wealthier neighborhoods and communities with the knowledge, the tools

00:49:28.700 and skills and understanding of what they have and what they can do with it.

00:49:33.060 And we're really seeing communities creating some beautiful spaces that can rival any garden,

00:49:40.520 any green space throughout LA County, just because of them recognizing what they're capable

00:49:49.720 of, as well as understanding that they're not alone in this journey. And there's power in small

00:49:55.020 groups of people doing small acts. We've seen that all throughout time and we're able to witness it

00:50:00.700 and really be fortunate to partner and just be alone for the ride.

00:50:06.740 I want to talk about expanding our community outside of our human community. And I think

00:50:14.880 it's really just incredibly humbling to think about the multitude of life that exists in a

00:50:21.260 handful of soil or compost and the billions of species of microorganisms, bacteria, pill bugs,

00:50:27.720 centipedes, worms, etc. that work to break down organic material into nutrient-rich soil. And

00:50:34.480 it's just such an important reminder of the incredible worlds of multi-species critters

00:50:39.060 that provide critical services and uphold the flourishing of life on this planet.

00:50:44.940 And at LA Compost, you talk about nurturing our human communities through these compost

00:50:50.120 hubs and convenings and knowing your neighbors and all of the beautiful pieces that you've

00:50:55.480 shared so far.

00:50:56.900 Similarly, I can't help but think about a passage of Donna Haraway's from her book,

00:51:02.400 Staying with the Trouble, where she writes, quote,

00:51:05.000 Staying with the trouble requires making odd kin.

00:51:09.060 we require each other in unexpected collaborations and combinations in hot compost piles. We become

00:51:17.180 with each other or not at all, end quote. And I'm so curious if you're also thinking about the

00:51:23.520 process in terms of making community with our more than human kin. I know you had mentioned

00:51:29.160 the worms, but I would love to hear more about that relationship building aspect as well.

00:51:34.620 yeah i think it's fascinating that we know more about you know the stars and planets in the sky

00:51:40.700 than the soil beneath our feet when we as a planet and species depend on the the top layer of soil

00:51:47.920 that feeds us all and the compost pile and the food web and the soil food web is is an incredible

00:51:54.380 internet of just multi-leveled micro and macro organisms to your point of the bacteria and

00:52:01.400 fungi being the most dominant to the springtails and ground beetles and the ants and flatworms.

00:52:08.500 And I think we were able to kind of experience these connections at a deeper level through one

00:52:13.940 of our partner organizations and locations. One of our sites is in partnership with the Audubon

00:52:19.680 Center at Debs Park, the Audubon, obviously a national nonprofit that focuses on bird-friendly

00:52:24.840 communities and bird species. And while working at this location, it really was brought to the

00:52:30.540 forefront of the conversation of, although compost isn't kind of aligned with just bird-friendly

00:52:38.400 communities, diving deeper into the conversation, it absolutely was in the sense that the life in

00:52:44.300 the soil supports the life above the soil, which supports the life in the air. And life is life

00:52:50.800 is life. And when there is life, there is often transfer of life. And we really seen that from

00:52:56.700 birds around the compost piles to kind of picking around the piles to opening a window and seeing

00:53:02.800 all the life that's in there to just the beautiful vegetation that has kind of grown partially

00:53:09.200 because of the rains, but also because of the mulch and our overs from the compost pile. And

00:53:13.260 I think without even thinking about it, we've naturally been introduced to the wonderful world

00:53:19.820 of not only the soil food web, but of a web above the soil food web and in the air of the soil food

00:53:25.760 web and really seeing how it works in harmony and how it works in an urban environment next

00:53:32.900 to the 110 freeway, how it works in a 17 acre park.

00:53:36.940 And, you know, it's really beautiful to know that it's not our efforts that's creating

00:53:43.460 the beautiful rich compost.

00:53:45.140 It's the efforts of the unseen.

00:53:47.760 It's the efforts of the things with no voices.

00:53:49.880 and I think it's a good reminder of how we should do life and work. We don't always need

00:53:57.500 the recognition and praise. Sometimes it's okay to be behind the scenes knowing that

00:54:01.800 the collective efforts of those not shouting at the mountaintop of what they're doing

00:54:06.240 are actually making a difference and whenever we teach workshops we always want to say soil

00:54:11.660 and compost is all about life and it's not our efforts with the pitchfork and overalls and

00:54:15.980 you know water meter and hose that's doing the work it's the things that we can't see that are

00:54:21.280 the true superheroes and sheroes of this work you know so the soil food web the micro macro

00:54:28.300 organisms deserve the majority of the praise and and us humans get to really learn from the inner

00:54:33.260 workings and really apply this new knowledge learned into other areas and aspects of our lives

00:54:39.500 Well, Michael, we've gone through so many different pathways to your work with LA Compost and urban greenings and working with governments and so on and so forth. And I just want to open this space up to you at the end to mention anything that is on your mind or maybe that didn't get mentioned in this conversation.

00:55:03.820 Yeah, I really am excited to participate and engage with this work, specifically what we'll be working on over the next three years, creating more of a district regional model, somewhat of like an ecosystem of building that human network at the individual level, at the community level and regional level.

00:55:25.540 But compost happens. It happens with us. And I just encourage the listeners to engage with food, engage with people in a deeper and truer way. Connect with your family, your friends, break bread, share meals, but also understand that food is powerful and has a never ending story as and it relates to our journeys as well.

00:55:49.820 So the learning is in the doing, nature is very forgiving, coexist well, and compost on.

00:56:19.820 Thank you for listening to For the Wild podcast.

00:56:22.660 I'm Ayanna Young.

00:56:23.940 I'd like to thank our podcast production team,

00:56:27.320 our podcast audio producer, Andrew Storrs,

00:56:30.420 Francesca Glaspell, our media researcher and writer,

00:56:33.960 Aaron Wise, social media coordination,

00:56:36.760 Hannah Wilton, guest coordination,

00:56:38.740 and Carter Lou McElroy, our music coordinator.

00:56:42.620 Music in today's show was by Mountain Hood

00:56:45.400 and our very own Carter Lou and One for the Road.

00:56:48.520 Our theme music is Like a River by Kate Wolfe

00:56:52.560 If you haven't rated us on iTunes, please do so

00:56:57.380 It really helps spread our message and build our community of earth tenders and defenders

For The Wild - May 29, 2019

MICHAEL MARTINEZ on Transforming Waste Relations ⧸121

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