00:01:43.420I want to just begin this conversation by sharing my gratitude for you and your work in the world and the mountain that you live in devotion to, Mauna Kea.
00:01:56.380It's really an honor to share space with you in this way.
00:01:59.660And I'd love to ask you to open this conversation up in any way that you feel called, whether
00:02:06.400that's a prayer, a song, or a bit of the story of Mauna Kea, you know, how Mauna Kea has
00:02:13.300guided your life and the life of your community and the lives of your ancestors.
00:02:19.420I will start as I would when greeting my mountain or my people, and I start with introducing my mountain.
00:02:32.420So Mauna Awa Kea Kuumauna, Mauna Kea is my mountain, Waikoloa, Ame Kohakohau, Kuumao, Kahawai, Waikoloa and Kohakohau are the waters that flow.
00:02:49.420and nourish me and pukapu is the place of my birth and i come from moko kiawe island of hawaii which
00:03:02.300many will know as the big island but it is hawaii island moko kiawe and the reason that we start
00:03:12.060by introducing our mountain, our waters, the place of our birth and our island name in cultural protocol
00:03:23.440is because they are more than mountains and water and land masses.
00:03:33.000They are ancestors. They are teachers.
00:03:36.600They are our link to our lineage, and they remind us of our responsibility.
00:03:45.480And when we speak their names first, we are also reminded that what we say in a conversation,
00:03:54.020especially a conversation that is reaching beyond our community, beyond our household,
00:04:01.600households, to places where we will be speaking for the first time to many ears that have
00:04:10.260not ever heard of us, we are therefore reminded that what we say, we say in the best way that
00:04:18.080we can to honor the mountain that I'm looking at right now, the highest mountain in the
00:04:25.820world from the seafloor, that I am accountable and responsible for what I am going to be saying
00:04:32.860here right now in this moment. So I need to be reminded of that.
00:04:41.100And so that's why I introduced myself in that way.
00:04:45.840Well, thank you for reminding all of us to be accountable and responsible for the places that
00:04:54.980hold us and that relationship with land that is so much deeper than the dominant culture
00:05:04.200conditions us to believe and I want to speak about your mountain and from what I understand
00:05:12.280there has been scientific infrastructure or development atop Mount Achaea since the 1970s
00:05:19.760And in the past decade, there have been plans brewing for the construction of the largest telescope in the Northern Hemisphere, the TMT or 30 meter telescope, which after a lengthy contested case hearing, which you were a part of, was approved this September.
00:05:37.700and I looked through the board of land and natural resources statement on the decision
00:05:43.640and honestly much of the wording just made me sick to my stomach I want to read a few quotes
00:05:50.860so that the audience can just be aware of what's coming out of this quote the TMT will not pollute
00:05:57.480groundwater will not damage any historic sites will not harm rare plants or animals will not
00:06:04.420release toxic materials and will not otherwise harm the environment. Another quote, the TMT site
00:06:10.860and its vicinity were not used for traditional and customary Native Hawaiian practices conducted
00:06:16.080elsewhere on Mauna Kea. Another quote, some Native Hawaiians express that Mauna Kea is so sacred that
00:06:22.960the very idea of large structure is offensive, but there are already 12 observatories on Mauna Kea,
00:06:28.980some of them almost as large as the TMT. They will remain even if the TMT is not built. No
00:06:35.460credible evidence was presented that the TMT would somehow be worse from a spiritual or
00:06:41.180cultural point of view other than the large observatories. This conquer culture really never0.78
00:06:47.600ceases to shock me at this point anymore. Not only was the land underfoot the development stolen
00:06:54.500by the U.S. government, but also the unique endemic species of Mauna Kea are threatened
00:07:00.940with extinction in this new climate paradigm. And if that's not enough, you are still being
00:07:06.820asked to define the sacredness of Mauna Kea within the bounding terms of the colonizer.
00:07:13.340Oh, my goodness, yes. Well, first of all, all of those comments that you read out,
00:07:21.700first of all, are all false as far as what we have not shown evidence about, what we have not
00:07:30.120proven, or what the TMT is claiming, the corporation is claiming as no impact on the
00:07:39.020mountain. So if we look at the TMT, well, we'll look even before that. The first small approval
00:07:46.720for a really tiny structure on the mountain came in 1968.
00:07:54.880And with that approval, slowly over time,
00:07:59.040it's very tricky how some of those other telescopes became approved, if you will,
00:08:06.620based on the first permit, based on approvals after the fact.
00:08:12.000There's a lot that went on for the first 13 telescopes to be built on the mountain, and I have to say there's always been opposition to all of the telescopes being up there.
00:08:28.320But what made this one erupt into a unified force of people to say enough is enough is, one, the fact that this TMT will be 18 stories covering over 12 and a half acres on the northern plateau,
00:08:53.380which is pristine, not developed at all.
00:08:58.820There is no more room for any more telescopes on the summit.
00:09:05.660The summit has been completely filled and altered with all of the telescopes up there.
00:09:14.080So now they have to move into an area that I look at every morning,
00:09:20.960the northern plateau, they call it, and the telescope would, if built, be erected, constructed
00:09:30.760there. So we entered into the case as the last of six petitioners in about 2010. The ruling
00:09:43.940was favorable for the permit after the contested case and then the groundbreaking in 2014
00:09:56.440was going to take place and that's when it was stopped by the people. So in order to see the
00:10:09.340immensity of what happened right there we take a look at the hawaii that is known around the world
00:10:17.240paradise tourist mecca beautiful scenery and landscape and all of that is very true aloha
00:10:28.360spirit hawaiian culture really i think the world had no idea well they still don't they don't have
00:10:37.860an idea of the issues that we face on a daily basis from bombing on the slopes of Mauna Kea,
00:10:45.000live fire, to GMO, to overdevelopment in our whole island chain, to all of the things that
00:10:55.680we face every day. There's an issue for every moment in Hawaii. But you don't see that. So when
00:11:04.560a people that enough is enough this will be the one too big the one too many the one where you
00:11:13.480have overstepped you are not welcomed here on the mauna the one that will cause irreparable
00:11:21.320damage even as cited in uh reports that this would be irreparable damage to the mountain
00:11:32.780Even then, I think people had no idea that coming forth out of this permit application would be a rise of our people who would say, not this time, this mountain is still sacred and we are connected to it.
00:11:54.280But not only that, you have to meet eight criteria legally, binding, in order to build in a conservation zone on the top of that mountain.
00:12:08.160And there is no way that building this monstrosity will meet the eight criteria to build.
00:12:21.580we stand for the entire 2015 we go up and protect the mountain by being there 24 7 there are arrests
00:12:32.760made there are stances made to protect the mountain and then at the end we win in the
00:12:41.560supreme court in december what do we win we win the right to start all over again
00:12:48.660with the second contested case hearing, which, of course, ended with the result being that very
00:12:56.440quickly the board approved the permit, no matter what we showed, no matter the evidence.
00:13:05.660And the approval was given for the permit again. So now we are in appeal to the Supreme Court
00:13:13.940one more time we are awaiting a date for the application that we have turned in for the appeal
00:13:22.400and if need be we will stand again i believe that it has been reported by the tmt corporation that
00:13:33.860if they don't begin to build in spring of 2018 they have located an alternate site which is the
00:13:42.360Canary Islands. We are not advocating for the TMT to go to the Canary Islands. We want to make that
00:13:50.440clear. We are not looking for another people who will have to oppose and stand as we have,
00:13:57.120unless they want it there. And maybe they will. I don't know that, but we are not advocating for
00:14:03.980that. But we are saying not this time over our water source, not this time on the top of a
00:14:10.780sacred mountain and not this time on a land base that you cannot even meet the criteria
00:14:16.620to build on but still you will and I believe that's because it is not only scientific and
00:14:26.540education which is always pardon me everyone rammed down our throat we are manipulated we are
00:14:34.900We are bullied. We are coerced because in the name of science and education, we are supposed to say yes, but no, not anymore.
00:14:47.860So I believe it is because it is five countries that have banded together to propose this, that the permit must be given by our government no matter what.
00:15:04.900And so we are forced into a situation where we will rise.
00:16:04.900You've just said so many potent statements that I want to circle back around to and thank you for,
00:16:23.920well, one, just explaining the complex legal system that this whole infrastructure of telescope
00:16:33.420is a part of I mean it's complicated I think for a reason also you spoke about these other issues
00:16:40.480in Hawaii the GMOs the bombings and it's so important to recognize those things for outsiders
00:16:49.920or for mainlanders who may look at Hawaii as this tropical paradise vacation area not really
00:16:57.720understanding the depths of the issues that are going on that you are at the front lines of and
00:17:05.880to really respect the trials and tribulations that you're dealing with and and then I just
00:17:11.520also want to mention I can't imagine what the impacts and consequences are of you having to
00:17:19.160communicate this intrinsic connection to the mountain in a way that is palatable for western
00:17:25.880judicial system the government and academia you know i i do want to ask how is that on your spirit
00:17:34.320to have to you know put this sacredness in this boxed in terminology you know it's all in the
00:17:42.500name of science all in the name of education and i'd love to hear your thoughts on how you
00:17:47.460walk the line between the two as you are praying and singing and dancing and connecting but also
00:17:55.360having to live in this colonizer judicial world of, I have a lot of words for it, but I'll just
00:18:03.140stop myself. First of all, you know, we have to understand that we are born and raised into this
00:18:10.220system, colonization, Christianity, the patterning that occurred here in Hawaii has occurred many,
00:18:19.880many years ago we we grow up in this system we understand that when we defend protect or even in
00:18:29.200daily life hawaii for us is not a state of the united states of america you know by way of our
00:18:39.080history and illegal annexation and all of those things but having said that we are in a society
00:18:46.540here that is very westernized and has been assimilated whether it's through our education
00:18:52.540our government economics you know we are part of it we are in this and so we are no stranger
00:19:01.300to this kind of living where we are attempting where we are managing to live not in both worlds
00:19:12.540We're only in one world, but managing to keep our own culture, connection, tradition, languaging, spirituality, deities, all as intact as we can, and yet operate and maneuver in a system that is not very often set up for us to be successful.
00:19:39.520so we we are knowing and understanding this is the life that we live in but at the same time
00:19:47.820we are also very aware that we are in that moment in time here in Hawaii and I know for many other
00:19:57.860native peoples as well because I'm well traveled and I have been to other front lines and have
00:20:05.000been an ally elsewhere as well as a frontline native here so getting to see the different
00:20:14.060movements we understand i think is the planet that we are in a very specific time right now
00:20:23.480where if we do not stand for what we deem sacred what we deem essential to the existence
00:20:34.380for the next seven generations of a culture and a way of life
00:21:02.540It is a 24-7 for some of us, but yet there is a beauty to this time that I am so glad to say that I am in it.
00:21:17.640The witnessing I see of a transformation of the young ones into the warriors that are going to steward and safeguard is beautiful.
00:21:29.460that we are managing to stand before it is too late is by far just magical that we are able to
00:21:42.400see that this unification is occurring from hawaii to all parts of the world and that people
00:21:49.600are standing because we are standing and we are standing because others are standing and we are
00:21:55.320joining in this grid of energy high energy in this dimension that was prophesied long ago that
00:22:04.600we will stand and we will be they who were before us all over again those things make this worth it
00:22:14.920that we can still hear the spirit world giving us direction that the mountain is our chief and our
00:22:23.200leader and what the mountain says is what we need to follow those things are ancient there are
00:22:31.140knowledge and customs and traditions just following the voice of your ancestors because
00:22:38.280you still hear them feel them and see them those things were commonplace in our past and now we
00:22:46.520are beginning to hear them again and because of that this entire issue of building a telescope
00:22:56.540on our mountain we say you thought you were going to raise a telescope but instead you have helped
00:23:03.820to raise a nation and for that we see it all in its place where it is all meant to be so because
00:23:14.600of that, it's not as exhausting as it could be. And we have not really come into a danger
00:23:21.900yet at this time in our stance. Yes, we have faced police. Yes, we have faced armed officers.
00:23:32.080But we have managed to do that in a way that has not caused a harm to us that might occur
00:23:42.500this next time around if the National Guard might be called or the military base which is right
00:23:49.500down side of the mountain so those things are something that we are considering right now as
00:23:57.700we take our next steps what's going to happen if we have to go up there the next time we know
00:24:04.940they're going to need to get us off quickly because they want to be able to say to the TMT
00:24:11.400corporation that there is a go ahead here go ahead and build and so they'll need to get us off
00:24:20.760very quickly this time so there's a lot to think about here there's a lot for every movement to
00:24:28.480think about when they are considering standing it's not something to be romanticized or in any
00:24:36.600way looked upon like oh everybody let's go run up there you know there is danger there there's harm
00:24:44.380that could happen but yet we have to like all others who have to but we also see the beauty
00:24:53.320in what is occurring the music that has come out of this movement the the ways in which we are
00:25:02.560safeguarding our hawaii the bravery and courage that have come out of this movement the alliances
00:25:11.540with standing rock or california tribes who are standing for their salmon or their life ways
00:25:18.740i could go on and on about what has happened that is so positive that it balances what is taking
00:25:27.820place here but in the end they cannot build on our mountain it is not good for anyone so if i
00:25:36.380will go into the spirit world for a moment we know that our mountain speaks to the mountains around
00:25:43.780the world we understand that there is an energy grid of fascia if you will in that communication
00:25:50.840between the mountains we have to be careful how we treat our mountain tops the energy that goes
00:25:57.160from one mountain to another is essential for this planet and we know it and science knows it
00:26:04.680and education knows it we all know it but we know it from the spiritual sense
00:26:11.460so we must help to protect that that grid that unspoken communication and so i stand because of
00:26:23.600that i stand because the mountain has asked me to try one more time and i will but for all of us
00:26:30.840we stand for our own reasons but we are also standing for the integrity for the sacredness
00:26:38.000of that which still teaches us shapes us leads us protects us and that is our mountain
00:26:45.980i just am so chilled in the best way by your connection to this mountain because i i feel
00:26:59.260the mountain as you speak and i loved what you said that they thought they were going to build
00:27:05.040a telescope but instead this is building a nation and i feel that in your words and i feel that in
00:27:13.520the the news and the stories that have been coming out of this movement that you've been so
00:27:19.280pivotal in and I appreciate your deep understanding that this is necessary and this is beautiful
00:27:28.320but it is not something to be romanticized and it's not something to go into without a lot of
00:27:35.800mindfulness and thoughtfulness and prayer and for many of us out there who are awakening to
00:27:41.880the realities of this time I think so much comes up for different people whether that's debilitation
00:27:47.200or rage you know this fire to fight back or to shrink to stand up and there's many ways to
00:27:55.860show up in this time and I feel so resonant with how you are guiding folks to stand up
00:28:05.320in the way that is in love and listening to these spirit guides that you're speaking of?
00:28:12.680We made a pact early on that there would be no leader that would come out of this movement
00:28:20.400as far as human beings. There might be some like myself, I'm speaking to you right now because
00:28:27.680I've been in this and perhaps I have a role here where I am speaking but in actuality in reality
00:28:37.460there are no true leaders for this movement the mountain is our leader we listen to the mountain
00:28:45.620and when I say that and when people say well how can you listen to the mountain if you can't hear
00:28:50.580the mountains speak this mountain by means of the chant and the messages from the ancestors has
00:28:58.660always been the realm of the gods where our genealogy ties to the heavens to our ancestral
00:29:07.100realm it is where the deities and the elements dwell in nature so because the mountain is deemed
00:29:16.740And as you would perhaps think of it as a temple and a sanctuary, if you look at the mountain like that, there is a behavior, an expectation of conduct isn't there when you go to a church.
00:29:31.600You don't just go in there and bring your weapons in there and fight in there and swear in there and be less than when you enter into your holy place.
00:29:45.600So just by means of that, the conduct in which we must abide by when we go up the mountain even to stand, we have to think about what would the mountain expect of us as far as our behavior and conduct when we are standing on the mountain.
00:30:07.800Now, when you have thousands of people coming up to stand, not everybody is in a place yet where they can hear that message or where they know immediately that the hills and nature itself, the plant life, the birds, the air, the wind, they are all messengers, and they are all reminding us of how to stand.
00:30:32.100Some people are there yet. Some people are being schooled. Some people aren't even there. They just know they have to run up a mountain and stand there, but they're not sure why. But the mountain is our training ground. It is a beautiful place to hold us accountable. And we are not there yet.
00:30:49.920we are in the learning and the training and as you say all of the unseen beings there the elemental
00:30:58.780beings the nature beings we say that the mountain is even where the ocean begins so all of the ocean
00:31:07.460is up there in the form of the rainfall the snowfall precipitation all of it ends up back
00:31:16.940on the mountain so every element is represented on the mountain so we are in in a way we are all
00:31:27.180abiding by that when we are standing on the mountain and for some of us we understand that
00:31:33.480already for me I am learning I am training the mountain is also my teacher and also corrects me
00:31:41.080when i need it because we are young in this movement we are young in how to stand and
00:31:49.960protect our mountain as a unit and so this is what we say to those who go to any movement but
00:31:58.140i will just speak coming up the mountain if you come up our mountain to help us to stand with us
00:32:05.420one we say you are a guest come as a guest and we will instruct you and guide you and do not
00:32:14.040overstep as we would not overstep when we go to help you we are your 10th line we are quiet
00:32:21.540in our movements when we come to your place we know protocol we know how to ask permission
00:32:29.580we know how to remain silent we know how to help when we are requested to help and we know
00:32:38.660how not to when we will get in the way we ask people to not judge us we are new at this we are
00:32:48.100working it out we are learning how to stand how to move how to feed each other all at the same time
00:32:58.520how to stand so don't judge us we are doing the very best we can with what we know and what we
00:33:09.020are learning in the moment and it is not easy to do all of that so if you must judge us then please
00:33:19.260go home. Be compassionate. While we are working it out, just hold us. That's all. So there's so
00:33:28.540much that goes into this from the realm on the other side, from the realm on this side. But I
00:33:36.860am just one of many, many in the Mauna Kea Ohana, many in the world Ohana family that are beginning
00:33:48.300to see that this is what we must do, and that it's part of our responsibility, one as humans,
00:33:56.280but also as Native people of these places. We were given the privilege of being able to say
00:34:05.060we were first to a place because we made an agreement in our ancestral realm that we would
00:34:11.540take care of it. But outside forces make it extremely difficult to take care of the places
00:34:20.940and the ways that we should be. So this is what we are here for, isn't it? To try to work it out.
00:34:29.640So when I'm looking at the mountain right now, I see a little bit of snow left on the mountain,
00:34:34.680And I know that Poliahu, the snow goddess premier, is in residence.
00:34:42.180And when she snows, she reminds us that they are still in charge, that we are in their domain.
00:34:53.840And they could easily shake every building off of the mountain.
00:34:59.100But I believe that they have allowed this process to work its way through because they have seen that we have needed the schooling and the guidance and the opportunity to stand together.
00:40:33.620But if we really were given the opportunity
00:40:38.300and the lens to see what is happening,
00:40:40.660real devastation on other places on this planet. It has already begun years ago. This is years in
00:40:49.740the making. We are being given the chance to do what we can right now. But I'm going to take it
00:40:57.260back a little bit because there's some things that you said that I really want to address,
00:41:02.660especially about the scientific community, economics, corporations. It's much more than
00:41:08.720science. It's a lot about money. Money goes hand in hand with science in many times, many instances
00:41:17.500at the core of it all. It's a government, it's corporations, it's economy, it's science, it's
00:41:24.380money, all of that. It's a big, huge machine. But backing up even more, you know, we're not against
00:41:32.820science here, even in the Mauna Kea movement, even when we're on Mauna Kea, we have said
00:41:38.840all the way along, this is not about science versus culture, but it is about versus irresponsible
00:41:47.300science. Because you come to us or anywhere in the name of science or education does not
00:41:56.580give you the right to take a people's lands to change a way of life to create irreparable damage
00:42:05.760physically emotionally mentally upon a people or a place science alone by that name education alone
00:42:16.400by that name does not give anyone the right and i think that there was a time period
00:42:23.040where we almost thought that it meant they did have that right and so that occurred
00:42:30.620but at this point and time irresponsible science and education that is not grounded in protection
00:42:40.960of life ways and places and sacredness that is not pono that is not correct that is not
00:42:51.920universally sound we have the right and the privilege and the birthright responsibility
00:43:00.100to stand when that occurs so what I would love to see evolve more is that when you are learning
00:43:12.180to become a scientist or even an educator I've been a teacher for over 30 years
00:43:18.100when you are being schooled you are also being schooled on the impact you are being schooled on
00:43:26.860cultural sensitivity more than we have been you really realize as a scientist when you come upon
00:43:34.940another people's lands about what that impact is and you understand what repercussion is and you
00:43:42.620know and you learn that whatever decision and impact you make upon a people doesn't end when
00:43:48.560you retire or when you leave a project. It continues and it impacts your children and your
00:43:56.260grandchildren. And when you know that, you be more mindful and more careful about destroying
00:44:05.020in the wake of pursuing whatever it is that you are scientifically set up to do,
00:44:12.800your experimentation, your hundreds and thousands and billions of dollars that you receive.
00:44:21.500You think about that that impact is going to go on and on,
00:44:27.300well beyond the time that you leave these places,
00:44:30.920because these scientists, they come and go.
00:44:34.040They come and go, but they are part of an everlasting impact upon a people and upon a place.
00:44:42.060And maybe if we receive a little bit more schooling about that, it might make things a little bit different.
00:44:49.800If you have a class on what it is to go in and destroy people's place and possibly their ways and the mental anguish and the heartbreak that occurs, maybe you'll think a little bit more deeper before you just say,
00:45:08.700in the name of science and education we're going to build no matter what and we hope one day
00:45:17.420you'll come to terms with it and we might give you a million here and a million there per year
00:45:24.900for your mountaintop because let me tell you they get shocked when we say no
00:45:31.540there was a time around the world where people maybe would take that little bit because it
00:45:38.960seemed a lot and it seemed like you couldn't stand against this regime that comes upon your
00:45:46.240lands but that's not occurring we're not quick here to say a million dollars for our mountaintop
00:45:53.920No money, no money, because we have to answer to the ancestors.
00:46:00.580We have to answer to the seven generations before us and the seven after us.
00:46:06.400And so we are in complex times here, but we are all working it out.
00:46:12.560This is the generation of working it out.
00:46:36.380I'm only 50 some years on this planet, a planet that has known thousands and thousands of lifetimes before us.
00:46:47.320And I just take my place in this little minute that I have here.
00:46:51.120I'm just a mere human being. What you are receiving from me is facts of a case. It is experiences and it is my thoughts. And for every thought that I have, there are thousands of Hawaiians with their own thoughts and their own reasons.
00:47:08.260I don't mean to come across as being the all-knowing or knowing any more than anyone else.
00:47:17.860I'm just one unemployed water protector like all of the others that are standing at this time.
00:47:29.200I've given up my job to stand, but I've done that full well, full knowing, no regrets.
00:47:38.260i love this life of standing as difficult as it is i could be doing something that
00:47:45.860didn't matter half of what it matters now and i will say because i truly want to be honest here
00:47:56.020that there are consequences of standing that we all know don't we water protectors land defenders
00:48:03.300warriors out there what suffers in the most and what has to survive in the end is our families
00:48:10.060families take a toll during these movements there are families that will break apart
00:48:18.920because of the way in which we move when we stand there are days when we just have to make sure that
00:48:28.480our children even remember that we love them and they don't feel invisible. There are days
00:48:37.440when the young ones will say, I wish that you weren't a protector, that you just stayed home
00:48:42.240and we're just like regular people. Why can't we just go to the beach? You know, that is what we
00:48:51.660are still navigating through is how to keep our families intact how to keep ourselves from going
00:49:00.460into despair hopelessness when we have to get up and pay that one more court case
00:49:07.580or we have to go and prove one more thing so this is all a learning for us isn't it
00:49:14.140water protectors land defenders warriors this is where it is difficult
00:49:21.000this part of it is probably the hardest and yet the most important so that's where we are working
00:49:32.600it out still and we want to make sure that we say that that's why we say don't glamorize this
00:49:40.960we are working hard just to be able to maintain a family structure as we stand
00:49:50.400and if we ask for prayers maybe it starts there yeah
00:49:55.520wow Pua you just have touched so many parts of my deepest self
00:50:09.260with your understanding of the movement and humanity and family and this divine sacrifice
00:50:19.460that you're speaking of and I absolutely hear what you're saying you know when you made the
00:50:26.580comment of why can't we just go to the beach and why can't we just make art and why can't we just
00:50:33.060live as normal humans whatever that is but to stand in love and sacrifice for the land and for
00:50:40.760the water is all consuming but it does affect other parts of our lives and I am so grateful
00:50:48.820for your honesty and your directness in that that it isn't a romantic part-time gig I also want to
00:50:58.820just, you know, at the beginning of this question, you know, you had mentioned the hubris of science
00:51:05.100and the capitalist market and how that's really what is pushing this forward. There's so much
00:51:11.960money and academic prowess put into, let's say, these telescopes, another form of conquering,
00:51:21.080the conquering of the skies, the conquering of some type of facts or whatever they're looking
00:51:26.260for it's not to say that there's nothing interesting in that realm but there's so much
00:51:32.840going on on earth there's so much going on right here under our feet that needs care the biodiversity
00:51:40.180extinction crisis polluted waters protection of of so much it's really strange to see this
00:51:49.180separation in people's minds and then I also think about how science is dealing with climate change
00:51:57.060and there's so much talk about putting billions of dollars into geoengineering these really
00:52:03.760intense systems of spraying aluminum in the sky instead of looking to these places and just
00:52:10.080protecting what we have or restoring earth's natural systems but there's this hubris there
00:52:16.500And so that's why I asked that question earlier of when will we face this mortality, our mortality potentially as a human species, or it's this deeper question of the dominant culture and science and capitalism pushing so hard, risking everything, risking complete toxicity just for one more dollar, just for one more day.
00:52:41.180but here we are on earth seeing the changes rapidly in front of us and there's just this
00:52:48.260disconnect and so I feel that when you're talking about standing standing as these young ones being
00:52:54.960schooled being educated being humble but then seeing our human counterparts racing towards
00:53:02.540the cliff and to try to take that all in and know the best way for those of us who see it in a way
00:53:12.040that you do to stand but also to you know understand the powers that be that are really
00:53:17.820taking so much of the power and doing things that affect all of us in the end as i'm sitting here
00:53:25.760an owl has come into my purview here into my eyesight and it's flying around here and for me
00:53:34.460that's the almakua that's a family guardian see some people see an owl I see a family guardian
00:53:40.300and it reminds me to say that we have to take a bird's eye view instead of an ant view
00:53:49.760This all could be very overwhelming. It is very overwhelming. And honestly, when I am sitting in, say, the Contessa case, and I hear Native Hawaiians or local youth who are pro the telescope, they actually are as passionate as I am about Mauna Kea, they are about exploring, even if it destroys in order to do that.
00:54:19.760So I have to really broaden my spirit to understand where they are coming from, too.0.68
00:54:29.320That is the first thing that I have to do, even if I don't agree with it.
00:54:33.960I have to understand that their passion is as my passion is, except it's on two different sides.
00:54:45.600So if I look at that already, I am a little bit clearer of what it is that we are truly either in opposition about or what really is the issue or how we forward.
00:55:02.800But I will say that even as we are compassionate, and we are in aloha not because of them, but because that's what our ancestors perhaps expect of us in how we proceed, because anger will not serve us this time.
00:55:22.120I know anger. I've been an activist since the 70s. I know what it is to be in rage, anger, depression, and despair from loss of so much of my Hawaii.
00:55:37.160and i know that it doesn't serve me and it doesn't serve our children our anger goes only home with
00:55:47.000them so the way that we are standing now is out of necessity as well as being finally led however
00:55:56.860what i will say to anyone coming up the mountain that will stand on the other side
00:56:05.920is don't take my aloha for weakness i am fierce in the love for my hawaii
00:56:13.040and i will do whatever it takes in the end but i will do it not in anger but in the love
00:56:22.680of my land and my people and my understanding of what i must do but again we must also be
00:56:35.720straightforward in what we are going to do. But to look at all of those things that you just
00:56:43.180mentioned, for a weaker person, it could put us right down. You know what I mean? It could put
00:56:48.940us right under like, oh my gosh, this is helpless and hopeless. And we are delving into the stars
00:56:56.260when we should be taking care of our own earth. Yes, that is all true, of course. But through
00:57:03.900the life patterns that we have seen for lifetimes in our history we know that that is the way of
00:57:10.500the dominant culture if we call it that is to destroy and already be looking ahead
00:57:19.220it destroys something and you know you're going to okay where's the next place we can go
00:57:25.580either to do it there or to try to bring about some restoration because we have just finished
00:57:34.640destroying something else that has occurred throughout history this is not the first time
00:57:40.980that these corporations have come to a native people and displaced their cultural beliefs
00:57:49.300rights, sacredness, broken laws to build what they want to do. These corporations,
00:57:55.720this is commonplace for them. If you go back into their histories and their alliances,
00:58:02.220this is not new to them. They simply wait us out. They create situations in which we might turn on
00:58:11.560ourselves. They wait until we don't have resources. They got billions of dollars. This is a pattern.
00:58:17.860This is the strategy. They'll start the propaganda. They'll advertise about education and science until they drown us because we don't have the money to go up against all of that.
00:58:32.520so in the end we say if you want to talk about the money the million dollars you will give
00:58:40.800every year one million we say there's 13 telescopes how about they pay one million already
00:58:49.360for the use the free use that they have up there there's no even rent charge it's a dollar a year
00:58:55.900to be up there on that mountain so why not you all pay we'll get 13 million right now we don't
00:59:04.420have to ruin anything else so let's take care of that education and money part right there
00:59:10.840we haven't even utilized what we could have learned out of that 13 so let's use what we
00:59:18.220already have so don't use those arguments just tell us the truth why you really need that up
00:59:26.720there because all the other arguments can already can already
00:59:32.980be just made very clear we don't need it up there but why is it that you have to build it up there
00:59:44.480is it because you're really looking at a hundred meters someday we've seen that in the reports
00:59:52.060so what is it so we cannot really stay there so much in the day to day we have to trust and
01:00:01.780believe in the universe we have to trust and believe that there are enough of us as human
01:00:07.920beings that are seeing the bigger picture, and that we have realized everything just in time,
01:00:15.820and that there have been people throughout history who have always been the pillars,
01:00:21.420who have always known these things, and they have kept us grounded just enough
01:00:26.600so that the rest of us can learn along the way. So although I could look at life in any which way,
01:06:45.820Please support our Kickstarter by going over to Kickstarter.com and searching One Million Redwoods to help us reforest these great living libraries of Cascadia.
01:06:56.440The music you heard today was Havani Rios with Ioni Apa'a and Melani Makau.
01:07:04.240Our theme music is Like a River from Kate Wolfe and Silence Returns by Bo.