00:04:34.300So Rachel, perhaps you can ground our listeners in the historical arc of this campaign from
00:04:41.260the perspective of Mazaska Talks and how you come to be involved in this movement and how
00:04:47.760Amazoska Talks is leveraging economic power through divestment beyond Chase Bank to stop the flow of tar sands pipelines.
00:04:56.160Gosh, there's a really long answer and then there's a really short answer.
00:05:01.760It didn't start with the intentions of us going after these banks or anything.
00:05:07.440What it started with was just a bunch of a number of Native people finally having the ability to use social media as a way to bring issues to light to the general public versus just our own community.
00:05:25.260But it started with just going over there and wanting personally to just be involved in something and being involved with, you know, our Native people.
00:05:35.680And there's so much lateral oppression that goes on in our communities that I think for myself, I was just screaming, wanting to just part of something that didn't have to do with my blood quantum and it didn't have to do with what tribe I was enrolled in.
00:05:52.140And so for me, I went over because I just wanted to help.
00:05:55.720And, you know, in all of that work with what was going on at Standing Rock, you know, it
00:06:01.700was the attention was finally brought once we came back to Seattle.
00:06:06.260I connected with Matt Remley and he had actually had found out that Wells Fargo was one of
00:06:12.460the largest funders of the Dakota Access Pipeline.
00:06:16.220And so I think a lot of us were just trying to find ways to help and to be a part of what
00:06:21.600was going on over there, even when we couldn't be over there. And so after, you know, having a
00:06:28.020conversation with Matt and Hugh McMillan and the number of activities that were going on over here,
00:06:33.840we were able to start targeting. We found out that the city of Seattle
00:06:39.180were actually banking with Wells Fargo. And so with that information that Matt had,
00:06:46.100it gave us the opportunity to kind of join those issues together. And from that point,
00:06:52.540then we found out that there were 63 banks that are actually funding fossil fuel projects all
00:06:58.340over the world at the time. And so I think it kind of gave us some leverage, not that divestment is
00:07:05.560anything new, but it gave us the opportunity to use that tool for everyday people. Like we could
00:07:12.480make decisions and say, take your money out of this bank or don't bank with this bank because
00:07:19.920they fund fossil fuel projects and all of the horrible atrocities and things that come with
00:07:26.400the funding of those projects, the desecration of sacred lands, the violation of indigenous
00:07:32.160rights, but also the number of things that these banks have done to just marginalized groups.
00:07:37.960And so that kind of began the campaign for targeting those specific banks and for being able to join these fights and to bring it to a platform of issues and things that were already going on.
00:07:53.120But so after, you know, we came here and we had teamed up with 350 Seattle and kind of developed this coalition that would attack, you know, Seattle to remove their money from these banks.
00:08:06.920That's kind of how, I guess, in a summarized way, a lot of this work picked up.
00:08:11.780And so, of course, you know, fast forwarding to 2017, February, not long before the camps had completely closed down, we were able to get the city of Seattle to divest their $3 billion from Wells Fargo.
00:08:26.540And from that, we developed a tool, which was Maziska Talks, that would then give other cities, other universities, basically anybody, a toolkit that could divest their own communities and things from these Wall Street banks that are investing in these projects.
00:08:48.960but from an indigenous perspective that we you know we were able to still lead it in that way so
00:08:54.460that's kind of what Maziska talks was really started with what it means is there's no
00:09:01.080traditional words for money we didn't have money and so it's it means Lakota for shiny metal which
00:09:08.480would have been like silver gold and so Maziska talks means money talks and since that point I
00:09:14.680think over 40 billion dollars has been removed from these banks because you know of this this
00:09:22.180work of you know putting it into everyday people's hands but then also being able to address the
00:09:27.920issues such that you'll hear more about with talking with Roxanne about missing and murdered
00:09:32.660indigenous women children men but also the man camps that are as a result of you know these
00:09:39.640fossil fuel projects and all of the human trafficking and things that take place simply
00:09:44.660because of this funding. And so it's not just about the fossil fuels. It's also about the
00:09:49.800issues that are happening in our indigenous communities and to our people as a result of
00:09:55.160these projects taking place and being funded. Well, thank you for that, Rachel. I think that
00:10:01.940was a perfect introduction that really helped ground this conversation. And now, Roxanne,
00:10:08.980your organization and presence has also brought such a critical voice to the heart of this
00:10:14.240resistance, reminding us that the desecration of our earth is intimately connected to the crisis0.71
00:10:19.760of missing and murdered indigenous women and girls, or MMIWG. And the statistics on this issue
00:10:26.100are just so horrifying. According to the U.S. Department of Justice, nearly half of all Native
00:10:32.280American women have been raped, beaten, or stalked by an intimate partner. One in three will be raped
00:10:38.520in their lifetime. And on some reservations, women are murdered at a rate 10 times higher
00:10:43.900than that of the national average. So I'm wondering, how is the rising crisis of MMIWG
00:10:52.200connected to the construction of pipelines and other fossil fuel projects? And how is your
00:10:57.060organization Missing and Murdered Indigenous Relatives No Borders addressing and raising
00:11:02.220awareness around these important intersections so thank you rachel that was an excellent
00:11:09.200introduction and it definitely uh says a whole lot i appreciate your work sis and um i guess
00:11:19.220what comes to my heart is that i learn like every day more and more from when i first started this
00:11:26.920journey from Standing Rock so it's forever like changing I'm learning new things I'm seeing like
00:11:35.120the really wide wide picture I'm getting inside you know with the families I work a lot with
00:11:41.040families so but historically what we know is that the first man camps were at the first point of
00:11:48.620contact when Columbus first landed on our territories on our homeland so he they brought
00:11:56.340the first man camps they brought the first brossels here and you know when you talk about
00:12:03.520like how does missing and murdered indigenous women connect with uh fossil fuel industry
00:12:10.640um since first point of contact the genocide and the rape of our mother earth of our of our
00:12:17.280sacred waters our our women um our children our men these things are all connected our our
00:12:25.520our wildlife you know um the whole the whole spectrum so indigenous people of this continent
00:12:32.960have been devastated by this first point of contact and we are still seeing it you know a lot
00:12:39.160of people don't really understand like well what do you mean genocide you know people have this
00:12:43.380idea that you know Native American people uh get big per capita um we have big casinos big money
00:12:50.440and they don't really, I mean, that's just what the government, I guess, that's the story they
00:12:55.840want to spin. But the reality is, is that the lands that our ancestors fought for, you know,
00:13:02.880by signing treaties that trying to save and trying to protect what little they could for the rest of
00:13:10.220us, for the future generations, for the love of Mother Earth, for the love of their great-great
00:13:15.160grandchildren and those great great grandchildren when you think about that you think about how
00:13:21.880the territories that we still have they have yet and still come after as you've seen in dakota
00:13:28.960dakota pipeline you we we all seen that like how and it still happens like that so the
00:13:35.000you know it's not just like we were given these lands and and these treaties have been respected
00:13:41.280No, the government is steadily finding ways to break those treaties and to continue to commit not just genocide on on us and our women, but also on our Mother Earth, which affects our entire families, our entire communities.
00:13:58.400And these man camps, they're very dangerous.
00:14:02.620I will say that a lot of people envision, you know, man camps being thousand-count modules,
00:14:08.740trailer-type modules, you know, and we've seen those.
00:14:11.540We've learned that those are set up for the Keystone X Island, Dakota Access.
00:14:15.740We've seen those modules, but there's so many different styles of man camps.
00:14:19.920So where there's waters like Alaskan waterways, they have man camps with the ships,
00:25:17.860that are constructed often on indigenous territories.
00:25:20.280And these camps accommodate the influx of thousands of non-Indigenous male workers following an oil boom. So I'm wondering, how do these camps and the toxic culture that surrounds them directly and indirectly impact local Indigenous communities, businesses, women, children, the two-spirit people, and even Indigenous men?0.62
00:25:42.120And how might we shed light on the shadow that these predatory extractive economies, the fact that social and cultural effects of industrial camps are not included in environmental assessment reports or even considered in the planning for economic development?
00:25:57.100First, I just want to say thank you, sis, and you're so humble. I just want to say she's so humble because, I mean, I see you like showing your son in a very powerful, beautiful way exactly what he's fighting for.
00:26:10.220my hands are up to you i i love the way you mother your children and and how you do this work
00:26:17.140and how you live it in your life so thank you but about that that question is like super um complex
00:26:24.680i almost started crying out there i've been really uh emotional these days but it's a good
00:26:30.480thing because you know this work is so complex and it's so you know and just thinking about like
00:26:36.740what rachel said thinking about future generations and thinking about uh where we're at and all the
00:26:44.140different front lines but it's all one indigenous people indigenous rights environmental justice
00:26:51.500all of this stuff it's like we're all connected and everybody's doing um intricate pieces they're
00:26:58.740put they're doing what creator called them to do you know just thinking about the reproduction and
00:27:04.340thinking about our salmon thinking about um our our orca the black fish and as far as you know
00:27:13.560the little critters that create you know the algae and all this other stuff you know we think about
00:27:19.920the the world that's in the water the water world our trees and and the air and and the reproduction
00:27:27.080of all the life that was here before we were here yeah it's heartbreaking it's heartbreaking
00:27:34.400because we weren't just put here to think of ourselves you know creator never created us to
00:27:42.200just be like it's all about us as men and as people but it's about being caretakers it's about
00:27:48.700taking care of each other in all life honoring all life and so I wanted to say that because
00:27:56.600it's real moving and when you think about it and and when people can connect to this movement like
00:28:02.780that when people can do that then they definitely you know we'll see what it is that we're fighting
00:28:09.340for and why we're standing on these front lines so as far as how these man camps what kind of
00:28:17.120dangers they they impose on our communities it's a huge danger because first of all okay some of
00:28:24.740them are not right on the reservations from what i understand but there are a lot that that are
00:28:28.440very close within miles i know that that the man camp that i was trafficked on is smack dab in the
00:28:34.960middle of my reservation where i grew up um and now they have another one so there's like two of
00:28:40.600them there may be even three that i just don't see right now so and you think about it like a lot of
00:28:46.980people think that a lot of us have a lot of money and but we're we're going through a lot of historical
00:28:54.420trauma so when you look at that and you look at our communities the perfect example is is that
00:29:00.300there's third world countries and somebody was saying the other day we're fourth world you know0.78
00:29:07.240when you think about reservations these pipelines and these man camps what they do is they bring
00:29:12.580in a lot of money to a very impoverished marginalized community where there's already
00:29:18.700a battle of um major meth and drug and alcohol uh issues historical trauma and so
00:29:28.460they move them on close to our areas where these men are like bringing in all this money cashing
00:29:36.300out um large amounts of checks buying drugs um you know they are basically the buyers right they
00:29:44.480they want the the women and and how does that affect our men it affects the children of those
00:29:52.700women it affects the husbands the grandfathers the grandpas the dads the sons i mean we're all
00:29:59.940connected so like if one of our girls is is trafficked there and ends up missing that affects
00:30:06.200our entire community it hurts us all across indian country every one of these girls and
00:30:11.900every one of these men that go missing it devastates us because we don't have the resources
00:30:19.100to find them at this point we're doing our best on a grassroots level but like prevention is part
00:30:25.700of it and getting rid of these um and and being able to stop these man camps from coming into our0.97
00:30:31.020communities we don't want them around our our tribes around our reservations around our people0.99
00:30:36.900on our land. And we should have every right to not have that there. But from what we know,
00:30:43.160we're going to constantly have to fight these people. And we need allies. We need a lot of
00:30:48.320people to help us do that. But it definitely puts us in danger. So I'd like to jump off
00:30:55.500the previous question and discuss the issue of legal jurisdiction and law enforcement that comes
00:31:01.080up around the crisis of MMIWG. And just to give our listeners a little background on this topic,
00:31:08.500tribal officers have the authority to investigate and prosecute criminal and civil cases only if
00:31:14.180the suspected perpetrator is an enrolled member of a Native American tribe. Otherwise, the case
00:31:20.240belongs to the state, with one exception in the case of domestic violence. This legal precedent
00:31:26.000was set in the 1978 Supreme Court case, Oliphant v. Suquamish, which stripped tribes of the right
00:31:34.120to arrest and prosecute non-Indians who commit crimes on indigenous territory. However, U.S.
00:31:40.340attorneys rarely pursue these cases. The Atlantic reported that in 2011, the U.S. Justice Department
00:31:47.460did not prosecute 65% of rape cases reported on reservations. So in the case of the Bakken boom,0.60
00:31:54.380the tribe has little to no legal control over the thousands of non-native oil workers that
00:32:00.720doubled the reservation's population. And it seems that there are so many loopholes here,
00:32:06.200a kind of like jurisdictional void that systemically allows these cases to fall through
00:32:10.800the cracks and go underreported, unprosecuted, and unrepresented in the media. So Roxanne,
00:32:17.360I would really love for you to speak to this complex issue of jurisdiction. And what kind
00:32:23.100of barriers do families face in seeking information and justice for their loved ones and family
00:32:28.040members? Well, it's heartbreaking. I will tell you that that is the center of my work is assisting
00:32:36.020and advocating and supporting families of missing indigenous people across the board. I would not
00:32:44.800turn down anybody, whether it's child, two-spirit, transgender, male, female. I don't believe that
00:32:51.860this epidemic of missing and murdered indigenous people touches all of us. But what I can tell you1.00
00:32:57.820is that we're still faced with those issues. Today, I'm working with families that want the
00:33:04.440FBI to get involved and the FBI is not involved. And families are still being told, well, that's,
00:33:11.240we don't know what to do with that because that happened on the reservation. People on the
00:33:15.880reservation saying we don't have the resources, the FBI needs to get involved. It's still like
00:33:22.040that. We're still dealing with these type of hurdles right now and obstacles, as well as
00:33:28.840I truly believe that, you know, like eventually things are going to get better, but for now,
00:33:35.000and it may be for another few years. And even then, what we know is even if we sign agreements,
00:33:41.860Even if we pass bills, if these bills all pass and become laws, we still know that grassroots people and social justice advocates and frontline people will still have to hold these governments and these policies accountable.
00:34:02.580because if it were the case that things just happened the way they were supposed to and the
00:34:11.000part i really don't get is why why we need any laws for the for all law enforcement to treat
00:34:17.020indigenous women as human beings indigenous people indigenous children why do we have to do that but
00:34:24.740that's the united states that's the government that we're under right now who doesn't see native
00:34:30.420people as human beings who doesn't see indigenous women as sacred as valuable our children as
00:34:40.640precious precious sacred gifts you know so that's where we're at i mean and and it's really sad so0.99
00:34:48.260yeah we're just we're just trying to do our best i mean myself is is to call out these the fbi the
00:34:55.700state attorneys, prosecutors, coroners, media, mainstream media. It's still very hard to get
00:35:02.560any kind of media, you know, to cover families. If you Google down CNN and you go for missing,
00:35:10.880just Google missing CNN, you can go down and you will see white person after white person
00:35:18.320that they are posting up for missing people. But they have only covered the story recently,
00:35:25.700of Alyssa McLemore. And they did mention my cousin, Resinda Strong. How did that happen?
00:35:33.880I have been able, because of the work that I've worked hard through my connections with a lot of
00:35:40.100like media around the world, I was able to ask everybody to help me get in contact with CNN
00:35:46.580for a little four-year-old girl out of Annis, Utah, who was missing for 21 days.
00:35:52.820and the family, it was just so heartbreaking and devastating. The entire tribe, the little
00:35:58.440village was out looking for her, including the president of their tribe. I was trying to get a
00:36:04.220hold of CNN so that they could go post it across the world about this little baby girl that was
00:36:10.380missing from this family that just was devastated by her disappearance. Unfortunately, the day that
00:36:16.860cnn got a hold of me the family in a search found the little girl deceased by not by luck but by
00:36:24.780circumstances i was able to establish a relationship and start talking with cnn and um propose that
00:36:32.920they i i called them out and said you guys have don't cover our our people when they go missing
00:36:37.960especially you know we have women and men going missing and i they started asking me about some
00:36:43.500things and I told them about Alyssa and my cousin Rosinda here in Washington one on the reservation
00:36:48.540one in urban area here out of Kent Washington and so they actually agreed to come like and they
00:36:55.040came fairly fast like within three days um because we were having a vigil but we just still got to
00:37:01.340continue to push I mean because like they say and I don't know if you've heard it but indigenous
00:37:06.760women don't just go they go first missing with their families you know at their family table
00:37:12.120at ceremony in the homes of their families but then they go missing to the community as far as
00:37:19.820like mainstream media and everywhere else because nobody it's we've been invisible we've been
00:37:26.780invisible for far too long we've been silenced for far too long so that's the work that we're
00:37:33.560doing today is to humanize and continuously push out the missing and murdered indigenous people
00:37:40.580here in Canada and Alaska. And I, I just wanted to add to that, you know, just that when we talk0.98
00:37:48.460about, you know, these, these issues that we have with jurisdiction issues and things that this is
00:37:54.660just one other, you know, one of those obstacles that, that we continue to run into as, as native
00:38:00.800people, you know, and when we add it to the long list of tactics that have been used to commit
00:38:06.560genocide against, you know, to the attempted genocide against our people. I mean, it's,
00:38:11.420you know, it's another form of boarding schools, adoption acts, kill them, kill the Indians,0.99
00:38:16.580save the man, forced sterilization, you know, getting command of our resources and our lands.0.96
00:38:22.720I mean, it's just that, you know, as technology progresses and life progresses and we move
00:38:28.060forward in the society that we're in, it's just like, it's another, it's another one of those
00:38:32.920tactics that are used against our people, you know, to furthermore add to that attempted genocide
00:38:39.580that's still happening. That's the thing is all of these things are still happening. It's just now
00:38:45.220that doing this work and connecting with media, with people around the world, you know, people
00:38:50.780are finally hearing about these stories that are not new in our communities in any way, shape, or
00:38:56.380form. So I think it's just another dynamic that's, you know, just been added to our list of
00:39:02.540you know things that they're doing to further get rid of native people exactly and that's why0.99
00:39:09.260I truly believe uh Rachel I truly believe that we're at a point right now we're unifying all0.98
00:39:15.520these injustices on one level I have changed the title of the work that I do I used to um I had a
00:39:22.900banner that said missing and murder indigenous women and girls um I gifted that to the Akram
00:39:28.420tribal council and um my amazing friends from 350 helped create me a new banner for missing
00:39:37.080and murdered indigenous people yeah and the reason why is because i've had my mother my aunties and
00:39:44.460other um elder grandmas from my my reservation over in yakima tell me hey hey rocky don't forget
00:39:53.300the men and when the grandmas and older women my elders the ones that I respect and listen to
00:39:59.340when the women are telling me to not forget the grandmas are telling me not to forget the men
00:40:05.520yeah that that really connected and resonated with me and so this is something that you can
00:40:12.600look at and you can say what about our our DACA people what about the people on the borders what
00:40:19.240about the genocide and the separation of families that is occurring there? Us as Indigenous people
00:40:24.640to these lands right here, we actually have a privilege that they don't have, which normally
00:40:30.400we don't have a lot of privilege, right? It seems like, you know, there's a lot of more privileged
00:40:34.200people than us, but I don't know if that sounds right, but we have a privilege as Native people
00:40:40.420to these territories here to advocate for our border people, for our relatives that are also
00:40:48.680indigenous that their families and their children are being basically, genocide is being committed
00:40:56.040at those camps right now. And it's hurtful to watch and it's hurtful to hear all the things
00:41:03.120that are happening to these families and to these children. And what about the men? Can you imagine,
00:41:09.860like this is exactly what indigenous people went through. So for these men of these families to
00:41:15.440watch their children you know to be taken from them and the mother to be broken the father to
00:41:20.760be broken um all of this stuff that america is doing to these people is what they did to us
00:41:27.060and the whole world is watching and nobody's doing nothing but yet america would step in0.60
00:41:33.560for other refugees in other countries when it was convenient for them they would step in and
00:41:40.200go in and help these refugees, bring them over to the United States. But yet Trump has such a
00:41:45.900problem with our borders along the coast of Mexico. Why? Why? Because they're indigenous people. And
00:41:52.700and he's just a hateful man. I just I don't have anything good to say about him. He's not a good
00:41:57.800person. He's not a decent person. And my heart breaks for those people and what's happening to0.97
00:42:03.340their families and what's happening to their territories over there, too. The indigenous
00:42:07.440there's people over there are suffering as well this is my broke down place everything's broken1.00
00:44:19.880And it's horrific that this genocide and this destruction of indigenous people is still, it hasn't ended. And people need to know that because if people don't know that, then they're kind of living in this fantasy world that isn't real. It's not what's actually happening.
00:44:37.900And like going back to the jurisdiction issues, it seems like there is no quick fix here. But part of me is wondering, well, I kind of have a two-part thought. There's one part of me that's wondering what legal amendments or changes could be made in tribal, state, or federal law enforcement and prosecution procedures.
00:44:55.540And then my second thought around that is, I know that one way that the Indigenous rights and land sovereignty movement has been articulated is through the framework of free, prior, and informed consent, or FPIC.
00:45:10.120And this phrase comes from the 2007 UN Declaration of the Rights of Indigenous Peoples and states that Indigenous people must grant their free, prior, and informed consent before an action is taken that impacts their land and rights.
00:45:23.780Now, as practiced, however, FPIC has not been honored and true consent has been violated by the state and corporate entities over and over again. So the second part is I'm wondering how has the integrity of FPIC been hollowed out and in many cases replaced by a tribal consultation or really meaningless gestures that claim to fulfill their obligation of FPIC?
00:45:49.060oh my goodness we did an entire tour on in Europe on just this specific issue you know
00:45:59.960I think FPIC it sounds great and and it sounds like you know when people hear it it gives them
00:46:06.720a good feeling of like wow they're talking to the people before they actually make decisions and
00:46:11.940and you do hear people you know come and say well they talk to them they they did have that
00:46:17.280conversation because of FPIC. But the thing is, is it's another one of those things where
00:46:24.560I could have a friend who knows a friend that told another friend one thing, and then that one
00:46:30.900friend will come back and say, oh, yeah, well, I talked to that original source. But really,
00:46:36.160it's kind of that telephone chain thing where it's five people down the road, and then they
00:46:43.360come back and say oh yeah well we had a conversation we see a lot of that work happening even with the
00:46:48.060environmental stuff with like a lot of the large orgs you know we've had the opportunity to have
00:46:53.440discussions with and things you know asking okay well are you developing relationships with
00:46:59.240communities and they'll say oh yeah well we talked to this one person who knew that organization and
00:47:05.120they said it was okay and so that's a lot of what our government's doing is is they'll go and talk
00:47:10.560to one of their people, you know, that knows somebody else and, you know, uses that as
00:47:16.140consent, you know, free and informed prior consent.
00:47:18.960But the reality is, is, you know, Standing Rock, you know, and the Dakota Access Pipeline
00:47:24.760was a prime example of that, showing that those conversations don't happen, those agreements
00:47:33.720And these oil companies, for example, have for so long been allowed to commit these,
00:47:40.080you know, these atrocities, but also get these projects funded because they've been able to buy
00:47:46.520their way through and ignore what indigenous people want and ignore the fact that, you know,
00:47:53.060that these sacred lands mean something to us, but nothing to them. I have to admit it was0.99
00:47:58.420frustrating, you know, when the church had burned down the Notre Dame church over in France. And
00:48:04.120it's sad that that, you know, that that building, you know, burned and everything and it holds the
00:48:09.540holds the history, you know, for people that it has. Well, the same thing is for our lands,
00:48:15.060you know, and to see people mourn and come together for a building, but not willing to
00:48:20.360come together for indigenous people who are violated on a regular basis. As much as I know
00:48:26.900that framework in the UN has good intentions, the sad part is, is just not actually being cared out
00:48:34.140that free and prior informed consent those conversations are not happening and I've sat
00:48:41.020down with in bank board meetings firsthand you know and and at the end of the day they don't
00:48:47.500want to hear history they don't want to hear genocide they don't want to hear violence and
00:48:52.940desecration they don't want to hear any of those they want to hear that this is great for their0.59
00:48:58.680economy, which means it's great for their pockets and that 1%. But free informant prior consent is
00:49:05.180not happening all over the world with indigenous people. And until there's a standard put in place0.99
00:49:12.280where they're being held accountable and fined for not doing these things or penalized for not
00:49:18.640doing these things, that's not going to change. But the great thing is that we get the opportunity to
00:49:25.200be on podcasts like this and to hold rallies and to do the work that we do and work with the
00:49:33.040organizations and media that we do to talk about these things, but also get other organizations
00:49:40.620that have been doing environmental work and finally connecting with indigenous people.
00:49:46.140Because at the end of the day, the teachings of indigenous people is really what's going to bring
00:49:50.960back the saving of our Mother Earth. Environmental groups are realizing that, and even scientists
00:49:57.740are realizing that those are the teachings and the things we have to go back to. So I think the
00:50:02.980conversation of free informed and prior consent has to keep happening, even if the intentions of
00:50:11.000it are not being met. My hope is that one day that they are, but it's so frustrating when you
00:50:17.080can sit with all of these banks and know that they're not doing it because this many projects
00:50:23.180would not be happening. And this many indigenous people would not be protecting their lands
00:50:27.980and standing on front lines and building, you know, blockades on their land to keep them from1.00
00:50:33.440coming in. And so we know that this work isn't happening, but we have to keep talking about it
00:50:39.420and we have to keep moving it forward. And at some point that work needs that framework of
00:50:44.980free informed and prior consent has to start happening or we're always going to be fighting
00:50:50.360and we're always going to be doing this. And so that's what I think about free informed prior
00:50:55.460consent. It's such a mind warp because on one hand, like we were speaking earlier, there's
00:51:03.580hardly any power to prosecute or enforce issues that are happening on tribal lands. And then at
00:51:12.320the same time there's this kind of illusion of the consent that's supposed to happen before the fact
00:51:18.340but on on both ends of the spectrum basically you're being drained of power and that is
00:51:26.020it's horrendous it's a horrendous that this country allows that to happen but i really think it makes
00:51:33.020it worse when you can put a label on something and say see look at the banks are doing this and
00:51:37.640look it, we talked to this person and it's all okay. Because then it allows people to walk away
00:51:42.480from the situation going, oh, well, that's handled. We don't need to worry about that because they've
00:51:46.260done the FPIC with this project. So it's really a mind warp. And I appreciate you both speaking to
00:51:53.560that. And also, Rachel, how Mazaska talks is using the FPIC to fight for just banking practices. And
00:52:00.920it's just so, it's so deep. And I wanted to also talk a little bit more about Mazowska Talks.
00:52:08.880Later this month, I'll actually be speaking with Ruth Breach from Rainforest Action Network and
00:52:13.040Tara Houska from Honor the Earth, specifically about the banking on climate change report and
00:52:19.160divestment. But Rachel, I'd also love to hear from you about Mazowska Talks divestment strategy.
00:52:25.200Now your website reads, quote, corporations and banks will not move on from fossil fuel era
00:52:30.440because of our compelling moral and ecological arguments about why they should. So we are
00:52:35.940learning to speak their language, money talks, end quotes. So I'm wondering what potential impact
00:52:42.240can the divestment movement have on the fossil fuel industry? Because while there have been
00:52:47.360really large strides, oil companies and banks are still making such high profits with, I think,
00:52:52.960a hundred trillion dollars plus global capital market. So while Mazaska Talk's divestment
00:52:59.860campaign is more targeted and focused, I wonder what it would take for divestment to be a viable1.00
00:53:05.900solution, or at least part of the solution, towards disarming these incredibly monstrous
00:53:11.520and powerful extractive industries. And what do you say to skeptics who argue that divestment is
00:53:18.280just a misguided tactic or simply a gesture, you know, a political gesture. I think with Maziska
00:53:26.140talks and everything that it's given us leverage because it's also given us the opportunity to look
00:53:32.460for solutions. Besides, we've kind of been in this place and in society where we have counted on,
00:53:41.040you know, Wall Street banking. And I think with divestment, I think it sounds like, you know,
00:53:46.100for a lot of people, it is not necessarily something that will work. But the reality is,
00:53:51.560is that it has empowered, you know, people, everyday people, like we said, talking to someone
00:53:57.860about, you know, the morals and values that your bank shares, and then making a decision to pull
00:54:03.040your money out. That's being an activist right there. That's making a stand. But what Mazda Scott
00:54:08.700talks is is also doing is is not just talking about removing our money but also what are the
00:54:16.200solutions to that so it's given us the chance to talk about public banking you know and and putting
00:54:21.720money back in the hands of our communities and the people making decisions and uh we're in the
00:54:28.160middle right now of advocating you know the city of seattle to you know move in that direction um
00:54:34.600And with the reports and everything that have come out and everything, yeah, these corporations are spending tons of money on, you know, the fossil fuel industry and these projects.
00:54:46.220But at the same time, we may not see the end results of this in our lifetime, and I guarantee that we won't.
00:54:51.980But it doesn't mean that we don't stop doing the work that is being done by Rainforest Action Network and people such as Ruth Breach and Tara Hauschka and how banks do have buying power.
00:55:05.580But in numbers, it's just like that movie Ants, you know, the part where all of the grasshoppers are talking about taking over and they basically say that, you know, hey, if they figure out, you know, that that them coming together is going to overrun us, then we're screwed, you know, because there's more of them than there is of us.
00:55:28.060And the reality is, is that there's more of us struggling and living as a result of the crappy decisions that these banks and institutions are making.
00:55:37.000There's more of us than there is the ones that are gaining from it.
00:55:40.440And so I think it's just going to take time and leverage for people to communicate that.
00:55:45.640But I think also the reason Mazda Scott talks is such a big push in this also is because it is an indigenous led organization and it keeps our voice out there and it keeps our situation relevant.
00:55:58.060and it keeps it in the forefront and it keeps us being able to talk about it and to show people.
00:56:04.200So I think these reports that come out are important. I think all of this work is important
00:56:09.720because even if we don't see the end result of it and the end of fossil fuel usage and the end of
00:56:16.460these funders from these banks, we still have to keep doing the work that moves in. So we have to
00:56:21.920keep talking about divestment. And divestment is important because like I said before, at this
00:56:26.960point, over $40 billion has been removed from these banks. And while that may not seem like
00:56:33.660a lot of money in the contrast of the trillions and trillions of dollars that get deposited into
00:56:38.680these Wall Street banks, it is a huge change. It is a huge chunk of money that they're losing
00:56:45.080because now they are lobbying to, you know, look at these new laws that they're trying to put in
00:56:51.700place about punishing pipeline protesters in all of these states and all of the laws that are coming
00:56:58.700into place that if you do speak out and rally, we're very much moving in that dictator kind of
00:57:05.840state. But at the same time, we have a voice more than we ever have. And I think we have to keep
00:57:11.180using it because they would not be doing this damage work if something we were doing was not
00:57:16.680working. And so people are reading these reports. They are seeing banks are contributing to climate
00:57:22.900change and the collapse of our environment and all of these things. And so I think Maziska
00:57:30.100talks in terms of an indigenous sense has been able to really bring the indigenous world together
00:57:36.100with, I guess, those other environmentalists and groups that are doing this same work.
00:57:41.580And I think if we all come together, we will start seeing those changes.
00:57:45.740And we may not see them right now, but that doesn't mean that we can't give up that hope of actually stopping funding of fossil fuels and coming together, you know, like in that cartoon and realizing the power that we have in numbers.
00:57:59.980and that's that work of of our people coming together all people coming together and this
00:58:05.420not just being an indigenous issue or just a black and people of color issue that it is a
00:58:11.020worldly issue and we all have to come together to start fighting this or none of us are going to
00:58:16.360have anything those most impacted by these systems of oppression and and really all of us
00:58:22.020are not meant to understand the inner workings of the fossil fuel industry or big banking or
00:58:27.860jurisdictional technicalities or legal agreements and amendments, you know, by design, of course.
00:58:33.160So I just want to name that reclaiming this information is such a powerful act in and of
00:58:39.660itself. And I want to thank you both so much for taking the time to be in conversation with me
00:58:44.400today and for giving all of us who are listening the tools and knowledge to hold accountable,
00:58:49.880not only the web of complicit governmental bodies and corporate powers, but also ourselves. And
00:58:56.380before we close, I'd really love to invite you both to share anything that might be on your heart
00:59:01.760and mind at this time. And, you know, Roxanne, if you also want to speak to the last question of
00:59:07.860holding spaces or rituals or ceremonies in order to do this healing work as well.
00:59:13.320I loved everything Rachel was saying. I think, you know, as far as like in doing this work,
00:59:20.420rituals healing ceremonies I think getting back to culture like restoration of our culture and
00:59:27.220our languages and our indigenous foods and our ceremonies and our language you know so when we
00:59:33.460take all those things and we live that life because see that's who we were that's who we are
00:59:39.060that's who we are that's what's in our DNA that's what's in the the memories of our what creates who
00:59:46.220we are and i know that for me every every time i hear a drum every time that i'm i'm looking around
00:59:54.380and i see my natives uh whether it be my family i could be somewhere with rachel i could be at drum
01:00:01.200you know we could be going to sweat it's where i'm the most happiest and the most complete the
01:00:07.620most whole and when we're doing those things and we're honoring who we really are and who creator
01:00:12.880made us to be those things are so healing and to also you know deny and and and turn your backs on
01:00:20.380um turn your backs on like like as indigenous people like um we have been up against alcoholism
01:00:28.360and drug addiction and all of these things that lead into so much more trauma and stuff for our0.93
01:00:36.260communities so you know i always say like a sober native is a dangerous native you know a sober0.99
01:00:42.160indian is a dangerous indian it's like the things that i'm doing today i couldn't do before i got0.99
01:00:47.940clean and sober so i i'm coming up on five years clean and sober so empower yourselves um invest1.00
01:00:56.180in yourselves love yourselves come back to that place because if we don't love ourselves and we
01:01:01.040don't have that relationship that rachel was talking about with creator um then we can't
01:01:06.240start the healing and this journey is individual so we can heal as a nation together but until we
01:01:12.080until i got clean and sober until i i was willing to to take this path to work on roxanne face
01:01:19.580roxanne face my fears face my failures safe you know um and be willing to do some things differently
01:01:27.260i couldn't have done any of this so like that's for each person i don't know what that looks like
01:01:32.840for you but but you don't even have to have a drug or a drink or have that type of addiction
01:01:38.960to be suffering to be suffering in silence so it's a lot of healing and as a people as a whole and
01:01:47.040i'm i'm predominantly speaking to indigenous people but as far as the healing and reconciliation
01:01:52.700and things like that from non-native from the from the government that started out of white
01:01:58.600supremacy and and i truly believe it's still very uh white supremacist and and uh white
01:02:06.760led, this government is still led off of the genocide of indigenous people and the marginalization
01:02:14.900of poor people and people of color. So when I think about that, like the reconciliation
01:02:21.180and the ceremony that needs to happen is that the government needs to acknowledge,
01:02:26.260like they have never acknowledged the Holocaust on indigenous people here. They have never,
01:02:31.300They've acknowledged, I mean, they even acknowledged the Holocaust of the Jewish people over here.
01:02:38.040They have acknowledged the slavery and the genocide, not maybe in that form, but it's talked about in history.