For The Wild - February 23, 2016


ROSEMARY GLADSTAR on Uniting Plant Savers ⧸31

Topics
ANDREW HARVEY on Confronting Crisis with Divine Dignity ⧸30 DIANA BERESFORD-KROEGER on Replanting the Global Forest, Part One ⧸32

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Length

58 minutes

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152.91

Word count

8,937

Sentence count

352

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Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
00:00:00.000 It's high on a mountain
00:00:23.060 The warm winds are blowing
00:00:24.480 And where the winds are blowing to
00:00:26.380 There ain't no way of knowing
00:00:29.140 The mountain grass is short
00:00:32.860 It's dry and close to burning
00:00:35.520 Crying out for water
00:00:38.640 As the season's turning
00:00:41.680 Sweet smell of the pines
00:00:46.680 Tall western cedar
00:00:48.500 Drifting on the wind
00:00:51.820 Through the mountains like a river
00:00:54.340 Hello, this is Ayanna Young
00:00:57.420 and I welcome you to Unlearn and Rewild, where we explore radical ideas relating to earth renewal.
00:01:04.500 Today we are speaking with Rosemary Gladstar. Rosemary is a pioneer in the herbal movement
00:01:10.340 and has been called the godmother of American herbalism. She began over 35 years ago developing
00:01:16.820 herbal formulas in her shop, Rosemary's Garden, in Sonoma County, California. She is the founder
00:01:23.380 of the California School of Herbal Studies, the oldest running herb school in the United States,
00:01:28.620 and is the organizer of the International Herb Symposium and the annual New England Women's
00:01:34.160 Herbal Conference. She is the author of numerous books, including the bestseller Herbal Healing
00:01:39.820 for Women, the Storybook Herbal Healing Series, Herbal Remedies for Vibrant Health, and the Science
00:01:46.780 and Art of Herbalism, a comprehensive home study course. She has taught extensively throughout the
00:01:52.920 United States and worldwide at venues as varied as backyard gardens, native villages, garden clubs,
00:02:00.260 universities, and hospitals. She is also the co-founder of Traditional Medicinals Tea Company.
00:02:07.080 Rosemary's greatest passion has been the work of United Plant Savers, a non-profit organization
00:02:12.520 that Rosemary founded in 1994 and is currently president. United Plant Savers is dedicated to
00:02:19.560 the conservation and cultivation of at-risk North American medicinal plants and to preserving
00:02:25.200 botanical sanctuaries across the U.S. and to help preserve the land that these precious native
00:02:30.860 species thrive on. Rosemary lives and works from her home, Sage Mountain Herbal Retreat Center,
00:02:37.320 a 500-acre botanical preserve in central Vermont. Hello, Rosemary. Hi, Ayana. It is so difficult to
00:02:46.500 know where to begin this conversation considering you've spanned so many passions and projects and
00:02:52.940 I like I'm sure many of the people listening became aware of you and fell in love with you
00:02:59.920 because of your contributions to herbalism to helping people heal with plants but your work
00:03:07.140 is just as much about healing and protecting the earth alongside plants and through your
00:03:14.340 connection with plants and we owe you huge gratitude for laying the groundwork for plant
00:03:20.100 restoration and rewilding thank you yeah you know that transition happened actually when i
00:03:26.220 in a big way i mean of course i don't think it's possible to work with plants on any level without
00:03:32.360 having a deep connection to the earth because they're so of the earth i mean they every time
00:03:37.980 you lean to look at one or pick one or bless one or be blessed by one you're you're bowing to the
00:03:44.160 earth. And there's these old woodcuts and old images that go way back into the hundreds of
00:03:49.600 years ago, where it shows, you know, the plant lovers, the herbalists kneeling to the earth.
00:03:54.580 And that image, I mean, is so potent. But that transition for me actually happened when I left
00:04:01.100 the West Coast. I had been born and raised in Northern California, that little town Sebastopol,
00:04:06.760 actually, where I grew up and did so much of my work. And I was kind of the epitome of what I
00:04:12.960 call the village herbalist or the community herbalist, you know, working every day in my
00:04:16.520 little herb shop and teaching and taking people out on herb walks. And all that was in the 70s
00:04:21.700 and the 80s. And I had grown up in that town. So I was very infused with people everywhere.
00:04:27.400 And when I moved to the east coast of Vermont, I really didn't know a soul. I moved to this
00:04:32.780 wild mountain that is fairly remote. And I was also in unfamiliar territory as far as the
00:04:39.020 environment went. You know, I had to kind of start over learning so many of the plants.
00:04:43.760 And it was really in those walks in the woods when I began to realize that so many of the native
00:04:48.980 plants weren't here. And that was like a question to me, kind of singing from the earth, where are
00:04:54.020 they? If they're not here, where are they? And so that began the process actually of my environmental
00:05:00.140 work, my work with the conservation of medicinal plants. Well, although I am itching to talk about
00:05:07.280 conservation and restoration of our ecosystems, I think it's important to begin with how we
00:05:13.280 really as a global community found ourselves in this predicament of extreme biodiversity loss.
00:05:20.060 Clearly, there was a great disconnection between plants and people. And I'm wondering,
00:05:25.620 when do you see the shift starting? And what are the root causes of this severance?
00:05:31.240 I mean, it's a fabulous question. I'm sure there's as many answers for it as people that
00:05:35.420 you ask. But I mean, I think it's probably been going on far longer than we even can date. But
00:05:40.280 I really look at it after World War II. It seemed to me there was just an enormous shift. Before
00:05:44.940 World War II, there was still a lot of small, diverse farms. People still had a very strong
00:05:50.480 connection to the land. Even in towns and cities, people still had gardens that they cultivated.
00:05:56.840 And so, you know, after World War II, there was this major shift in the whole chemical revolution
00:06:02.160 that happened. And there's some speculation, which I think is accurate, that there was a lot
00:06:06.860 of big companies that just had an excess of terrible chemicals that they needed to find
00:06:10.640 things to do with them. And so they started turning it into our food supplies and into our
00:06:15.220 medical system. And I was actually born right after World War II. So that shift happened. I grew
00:06:20.780 up in a small dairy farm, but even in my own lifetime, living on that dairy farm in Sonoma
00:06:26.120 County. I watched farmer after farmer be put out of business. I saw the towns and the malls start
00:06:32.560 stretching over into the countryside. It was actually heartbreaking and devastating for me
00:06:37.040 to see that. But on a bigger level, I think it was just permeating our entire culture. And because
00:06:43.620 our culture has such a huge influence in world culture, it was making a difference worldwide
00:06:48.740 in a very negative way. So people actually did not trust natural foods and their garden foods
00:06:55.400 and definitely not trust natural medicine and started really believing what, you know,
00:06:59.800 the chemical companies were saying that the chemical revolution, that pill, that pharmaceutical
00:07:04.860 would save the woes of the world.
00:07:07.520 And, you know, I chuckle sometimes and laugh if it only was that simple, if you could take
00:07:11.260 a pill and cure every illness and not have a disease, but exactly the reverse happens
00:07:15.580 when we become disconnected from nature in those most basic ways of food and medicine
00:07:21.040 and our spiritual food, you know, our source of inspiration that comes from nature, we become
00:07:27.300 incredibly isolated and lonely, and we do the horrible things that we see happening. But, you
00:07:32.800 know, again, that disconnect went on long before that, you know, when we even saw the first settlers 0.90
00:07:38.080 when they arrived on the North American continent, they arrived in a place that was still, from all
00:07:43.280 historical accounts, people were living in harmony with nature, and immediately those settlers started
00:07:49.720 chopping down the trees and killing off the animals and, you know, the buffalo and the
00:07:54.200 passenger pigeon. So I think that isolation probably tracks back a long time and maybe
00:08:00.720 to when cultures went from honoring the feminine and then, you know, putting into place the more
00:08:07.420 patriarchal society. So it probably tracks way back. Yeah, it seems there is a long history that
00:08:16.820 has led to this disconnection from the life source. If you've been born in Western culture,
00:08:24.700 you've probably been conditioned to understand the world almost purely analytically. Animism,
00:08:32.800 which recognizes a spiritual connection to the plants and animals and soil, is usually thought
00:08:39.200 of as being naive. So how would you encourage people who long to break out of this official
00:08:47.140 position of brain chauvinism, as Stephen Buhner calls it, to find that openness to nature's
00:08:54.980 omniscience and to begin to listen to plant teachers? Well, I think, you know, spending time
00:09:03.320 in the garden and in nature, anytime you're with plants, they open you up. You know, I want to say,
00:09:07.800 I think this revolution for people reconnecting with nature is actually happening in a great way,
00:09:12.560 and I think it's happening worldwide.
00:09:14.660 I mean, people are lonely without other creatures in our lives, you know,
00:09:18.800 the microbes in the soil and the sky beans in the sky and all the parts of the world that we don't see.
00:09:24.080 And even within us, all the microbes in ourselves that we made into enemies
00:09:27.460 and tried to kill off to the demise of our own health and well-being.
00:09:31.280 Without this incredible diversity of spirit, we're lonely.
00:09:34.720 You know, we're soulless, actually.
00:09:36.000 We look at our culture right now and what you see are lonely people seeking that connection.
00:09:40.500 So I think the revolution of returning to the mother is happening.
00:09:44.840 And so I think that each time we go out to nature, each time we kiss the earth, each time we open our arms to the sky, those beings just flow into us.
00:09:53.860 So the more and more we can take down the walls that separate us from the natural world, form communities with people who speak a common language and keep that language continuing.
00:10:06.000 out of those circles so the circle grows larger and larger it's one of the beauties of these big
00:10:10.360 conferences that happen you know that it's not like you're just preaching to the choir you're
00:10:14.480 preaching to the choir and it's a beautiful large song and it goes out and it gathers others in
00:10:19.940 because the music is so good if you know what i'm saying i also think you know that using the
00:10:25.140 the natural things in nature that were there that help us step out of our world like the plant
00:10:31.280 spirits and those can be plant spirits that are very strong that are you know you ingest them and
00:10:36.480 they really actually help you have conversations with the goddess and the gods and spirit beings
00:10:41.840 but also just the plants themselves when we begin to converse with those like all gardeners really
00:10:47.940 talk to their plants they have a language when they go out to harvest plants and talk with them
00:10:52.640 and the more that we permit that language to happen the more we begin the conversation
00:10:56.820 with these beings that support us. Oh, absolutely. And in my own experience,
00:11:03.960 I remember always having a love for nature and feeling awe when I would visit, but it took time
00:11:12.300 to build a relationship. It's not something that can be learned from a book or in a strategic way.
00:11:19.680 you know after a while and it didn't take very long I really started to feel the earth speaking
00:11:27.080 back you know not even in a language that I understood but it was a feeling of embodiment
00:11:33.140 that's so beautiful what you just said the thing that struck me was that it really didn't take
00:11:39.520 long you know it's true you have to spend time to develop any relationship you know you have this
00:11:44.360 sparkle when you first meet people but to really develop a deep relationship where you
00:11:48.700 begin to reveal intimacy and deep feelings and where you feel that oneness with a girlfriend
00:11:54.780 or a boyfriend or whatever and so that when that happens and you have that sense that feeling
00:12:00.480 in being with the plants and in being with nature then you just want to come home to that and so
00:12:05.200 that's what happens that's why I see these little circles that keep growing and growing and you know
00:12:09.320 in my lifetime which I'm fairly young still you know I always laugh and say I'm just like a young
00:12:15.160 tree, you know, in my mid 60s now. And I've seen this revolution change really healthcare in the
00:12:21.500 United States, it needs to be changed a lot more. But to see something like this happen in 40 years
00:12:27.120 even is remarkable, I think, don't you? It's remarkable to, to see how hungry people are for
00:12:34.300 the change, even if it's not all in focus yet. Yeah. And once we begin to walk regenerative
00:12:42.240 pathways and things come into blossom we will have a momentum that carries us forward
00:12:49.440 in an alliance of earth renewers and earth defenders and i'm so inspired by the leap of
00:12:56.940 faith you must have taken to ignite the movements you have in a time when herbalism and environmental
00:13:03.780 stewardship were largely in a coma and you you overcame the inertia with your daily devotional
00:13:11.000 action and help to blaze those neural networks for all of us. Thank you for recognizing that.
00:13:18.540 You know, it's, it's interesting. Sometimes when people ask me how I accomplished the small things
00:13:22.700 I did, it was like, I never really thought of accomplishing anything. It was just, there was
00:13:26.360 something that needed to be done. And so you jump in to do it and talking to people recently,
00:13:32.380 some wonderfully brilliant young people about activism. And I think you just have to be active.
00:13:36.980 You know, you have to step forth for what you believe and not think about what the end
00:13:41.040 cause or the result or if it will work or not work.
00:13:43.520 You never know that when you jump in to do something.
00:13:46.740 But it's like forming United Plant Savers.
00:13:48.820 It was really just formed over a question.
00:13:51.240 The question was, is there an issue happening right now with the plants?
00:13:54.680 The more we ask that question, like, are these plants really asking for our help?
00:13:59.640 Do we need to be more conscious about how we're worshiping them and using them and being
00:14:04.920 successful using them in our medicines and companies and stuff. And every single herbalist
00:14:10.040 I asked, whether they were a practitioner, a medicine maker, a business person, they all said,
00:14:16.580 yes, we think that there's an issue here and we think we need to address it. And so then we just
00:14:21.540 got in and we're active, you know, we stumbled along, we did, we didn't do everything perfectly,
00:14:25.680 we didn't have this huge plan. But again, working together, I think that connectedness of when
00:14:30.560 people come together and you have a bigger mission in place other than how you're going to succeed
00:14:36.880 and especially when you take on something like working for the plants I mean you have millions
00:14:41.980 of plants that are just they're like a incredibly colorful radiant powerful army behind you pushing
00:14:49.100 you onwards so in everything I think it's just when people look to how they can have an impact
00:14:55.440 it can be very small, but it can be very powerful. It can have implications that we don't even
00:15:02.040 imagine. Like, you know, I think about myself and just growing up on a dairy farm and really
00:15:07.980 opening my first store. I was not thinking, oh, I'm going to create some herbal revolution here
00:15:12.700 in Sonoma County. It was, I just want to make herbs available in my community. And it was that
00:15:17.860 simple. And then, you know, you let the dream unfold. The dream kind of works through you. And
00:15:23.380 You know, that old saying is you just be a hollow weed and you let the spirit work through you.
00:15:28.300 I think that's a good way to work, actually.
00:15:31.260 I think that helps us all a lot, don't you?
00:15:36.100 Yes, I do.
00:15:37.760 The tasks at hand are so big and we can't do it alone.
00:15:42.680 It's much less daunting to know there is a force of collective unity
00:15:47.560 and that we have 10 million ally species who all want the same harmony we want 0.72
00:15:54.620 and who have been doing it long before the clever apes showed up.
00:15:58.700 So, you know, they are the wise ones when it comes to working together.
00:16:17.560 in marzipan and i know just what they're all for i've organized my useless life in a way i've never
00:16:26.620 done before even visit the dentist now but i've got no time for silly chitter chatter i'm on my way
00:16:37.060 because while my blood's still warm and my mind doesn't matter i'm hoping to stay because i've
00:16:44.500 Got a thing about seeing my grandson grow old
00:16:48.120 I just can't wait to see that city on the moon
00:16:58.220 With air-conditioned gardens
00:17:01.660 That'll play your favorite tune
00:17:04.520 I'll see my feet upon that street
00:17:08.000 If it's the last thing that I do
00:17:10.420 even sweep the roads to be there but i've got no time for silly chitter chatter i'm on my way
00:17:19.860 because while my blood's still warm and my mind doesn't matter i'm hoping to stay
00:17:25.820 because i've got a thing about seeing my grandson grow
00:17:40.420 Along with climate change, habitat loss is a leading cause of the rapid extinction rates.
00:17:57.420 And I want to read a few statistics just to put this land use conversion into context.
00:18:03.080 According to the World Wildlife Fund, around 50% of the world's habitable land has already been converted to farmland.
00:18:12.540 This area is still expanding.
00:18:15.180 It is predicted that in developing countries, a further 120 million hectares of natural habitats will be converted to farmland to meet demands for food by 2050.
00:18:25.920 This will include land with high biodiversity value.
00:18:28.720 On top of habitat loss due to clearing and unsustainable agricultural practices, we're seeing 12 million hectares of land lost each year due to desertification.
00:18:42.640 Specifically in the U.S., the Forest Service projects that within the next 50 years, more than 50 million acres of forest land will be converted to developed uses.
00:18:53.060 so although these are harrowing statistics we don't need to be debilitated by them
00:19:02.040 we can use this knowledge to orient our efforts to the contrary through the united plant savers
00:19:08.720 organization you've been able to confront these hard realities and take action for the earth
00:19:15.080 so would you mind sharing the mission statement of united plant savers and tell us how ups is
00:19:22.360 approaching the trends of habitat loss and expansion of agriculture. Thank you. Well,
00:19:29.620 our mission statement is to preserve and conserve plants for future generations of plant lovers
00:19:35.980 and the earth itself. I mean, even more important than for our use is that these plants are here
00:19:42.020 into perpetuity. And it's also about preserving the land, which is a huge task. On the other hand,
00:19:48.780 we can make such a difference. So one of the things that United Plant Savers has done
00:19:52.520 is we have a sanctuary project where we have over 6,000 acres now that are members.
00:19:58.920 So these individuals have put into sanctuary and UPS sanctuary means that we take at least a part
00:20:06.000 of our land and convert it back to wilderness in whatever way we can. You know, that might just be
00:20:12.040 letting, if you live in town, so the land doesn't have to be large acreages, it could, your sanctuary
00:20:17.740 It can be a backyard. It can be a 500 acre preserve.
00:20:22.140 You know, it's not about size. It's about intention, that intent that we have to see our land as sacred and to put wildness back in it through the wild plants.
00:20:31.940 When you do that, when you start to plant the natives back, they invite the natives back.
00:20:36.300 So you start to get you see it visibly happening. 0.97
00:20:39.060 And it doesn't again doesn't take years.
00:20:40.980 It can happen within the first year that you plant native species back.
00:20:44.580 You get native pollinators. You get the native butterflies.
00:20:47.740 more frogs and the wildlife comes back to it, you know. And so the wildlife may be just
00:20:52.720 floating, migrating birds, or they might be the insects or whatever. But in the last 10 years,
00:20:58.600 we supported our members in having over 6,000 acres. And then UPS was gifted right when we
00:21:03.840 first found it, which is 20 years ago now. We were gifted by two remarkable people,
00:21:09.520 a large sum of money, and we were able to purchase a 370-acre botanical sanctuary
00:21:14.780 in southeastern Ohio which is one of our most biodiverse rich areas that we have and that's
00:21:21.920 not a lot of acreage when you put it in context again to those 50 million acres etc but it's the
00:21:27.840 model that it creates you know it's in the middle of Appalachia and this is the coal mining area
00:21:32.480 here we have this beautiful thriving sanctuary that's filled with native plants that live there
00:21:38.440 just naturally you know they need a little protecting for sure from you know local poachers
00:21:43.260 and deer and all that kind of stuff. But yeah, it's a lot about empowering individuals to do
00:21:48.400 whatever it is that we can do, small or large, that makes a difference. One of the biggest things
00:21:54.120 I think that UPS did was called attention to the fact that we need to be stewards, not just users
00:22:00.520 and not just consumers of plants, but stewards of our great plant community. And in stewardship,
00:22:07.980 which I love that word actually stewardship, you know, it's, it's about this kind of, um,
00:22:13.180 give and take relationship where, um, we're, we're all tending one another. So when we become
00:22:19.420 stewards of healing plants, which we really promote with our membership is we were using
00:22:24.400 them, we're growing them, you know, we're taking, you know, making our companies, making our
00:22:28.820 medicines from them, but more than anything, we're also minding their habitat and their growth and
00:22:35.520 they're you know ensuring that they're here again for that long-term mission for into you know for
00:22:41.400 the seventh generation and beyond so it's been very successful you know it's one of those small
00:22:47.980 grassroots and I love that term grassroots because here you know we are definitely a
00:22:52.040 grassroots organization completely concerned with the plants and about the plants but
00:22:56.240 it's a great model because with a small group of people we made a big difference in the whole
00:23:02.500 herbal industry. If you look back even 20, 25 years ago, there was just no mention of plant
00:23:08.940 conservation in the herbal community or the business world. And today it's a major topic.
00:23:15.100 You know, it comes up always in big events and small events at herb schools. And even within
00:23:19.800 the industry, it's become much more kosher to be supporting organic farming and organically
00:23:28.000 cultivated plants rather than to use, especially the wild and indigenous plants that are very
00:23:33.740 sensitive in the native habitats. Oh, absolutely. Every herbal event that I've been to in the past
00:23:41.420 few years has addressed ethical wildcrafting and over-harvesting. Coming into herbalism,
00:23:48.160 especially from the chemical pharmaceutical side, it's really easy to think it's all harmless,
00:23:53.620 but we have to go deeper and see that in exchange for nurturing and healing us we have to take care
00:24:01.280 of them as well and get over this resource extraction mentality that we inadvertently
00:24:08.480 bring to herbalism yeah ayana that's so perfect because really that's really about what every one
00:24:14.260 of these conversations comes home to is that that stewardship of one another that as we learn to
00:24:20.060 take care of our garden patches, the earth under our feet, our plant communities. And these kinds
00:24:26.600 of tasks are actually joyful. They can have huge sadness, you know, when you look out over places
00:24:31.720 that have been devastated. But when you start that restoration process and you start that
00:24:35.380 educational process, it can be so renewing to the spirit. And I think in the herbal community,
00:24:41.000 we see this, especially these young people just stepping up in a grand way to embrace that
00:24:45.800 message. I mean, that's what gives me more hope than anything else, you know, and it can be very
00:24:51.020 hard to keep hopeful in a time when there's so much devastating news and we have access to so
00:24:56.100 much devastating news. You know, it's one of the wonders and one of the horrors of, you know, the
00:25:00.940 internet, that huge communication system that we are kept on track with all of this stuff. And it's
00:25:06.740 very empowering, but it also can be very disempowering. But the hope for me is when I
00:25:11.820 travel and I meet group after group of vital young people so willing to step up and take
00:25:18.880 these responsibilities on and sometimes it's really joyful way like so plant stewardship is
00:25:23.620 joyful and one of the hopeful messages at least in this country it's not true and other parts of
00:25:29.740 the world is all of the plants that we're focusing on at least as herbalists you know we still have
00:25:35.440 them here they're not extinct so we have an opportunity to make a difference and we can see
00:25:40.500 that we are. We can see how, again, how a small group of, as Margaret Mead's famous words, I think
00:25:46.360 they're the words I live by, never doubt that a small, thoughtful group of concerned citizens can
00:25:51.460 change the world. And as that message grows and grows, which I'm very hopeful that it will,
00:25:57.840 I think we will start to see the rehabitation of our planet again. I think restoration is a
00:26:05.060 beautiful way to activate our hope and celebrate our agency. And we have to constantly revisit the
00:26:12.560 question of what are we capable of today, this year, and this lifetime. And as movements grow
00:26:21.600 and as historical precedents raise the bar of what's possible, a worldwide restoration of
00:26:27.300 Earth's ecosystems is our call to action. And my hope is that the life force of plants and trees
00:26:34.680 will break through the concrete and grow through the oil spills
00:26:38.560 and where our individual actions may be small and local,
00:26:42.780 we can set change on its course.
00:26:48.180 Quietly
00:26:49.220 Like the breeze that blows the olive tree
00:26:56.860 The wind of change has come down from the hill
00:27:04.420 To lead me home again
00:27:07.640 Through the last mile of sunshine
00:27:13.940 As easily as the moon makes patterns
00:27:22.300 On the lifeless lake
00:27:24.140 Man grinds the flowers of the field
00:27:27.860 Beneath his heels
00:27:29.580 And you wonder if he feels
00:27:33.160 Love or even boredom
00:27:37.020 But my friend
00:27:40.860 The wind of change
00:27:44.600 Is asking questions
00:28:03.160 Suddenly,
00:28:26.800 There are now so many giants everywhere
00:28:36.940 So many men who think
00:28:42.080 Even God looks small
00:28:46.100 When they're walking tall
00:28:51.580 And the wind of change
00:28:58.020 Is trembling
00:29:00.680 Could it be
00:29:09.080 That his smile is just another kind of frown
00:29:17.880 Because he knows the world is finally falling down
00:29:26.040 And going back to dust
00:29:29.020 And if we trust those men who trample on the grass
00:29:38.640 Emptiness is all that we can ask for
00:30:09.540 I'm wondering what some of the plants are that you are protecting through United Plant Savers, how they were chosen, and what's being done to protect and nourish them.
00:30:21.100 Well, a great example is our poster child, Golden Seal.
00:30:24.560 Golden Seal is one of our great contributions of North America to world medicine.
00:30:29.960 You know, and from the very beginning when the early settlers, I mean, the native peoples here used it as a wonderful plant for all kinds of infections and rashes.
00:30:40.580 And also it was so plentiful. They used it as a dye to dye their clothing, this beautiful kind of golden green that it dyes.
00:30:48.180 And then the pharmaceutical industry use it. It's very potent in alkaloids, hydrastine and canadensis, hydrastine and berberine particularly.
00:30:57.240 And so the plant has been exported all over the world.
00:31:00.980 And even back in the 1800s, the eclectic doctors of that time and the harvesters were noticing
00:31:06.980 it was in decline, but definitely through the 1920s and 1930s, even when herbalism wasn't
00:31:12.900 popular in this country, it was being dug up in massive amounts and shipped out of this
00:31:17.900 country because it was being used, as I mentioned, by the pharmaceutical industry.
00:31:22.560 So in my lifetime, when I first learned about golden seal, I was living in California.
00:31:26.660 I had never seen it in the woods and, you know, had no idea whether it was plentiful or not
00:31:31.900 plentiful. I was that disconnected from it. But when I moved to New England, I started looking
00:31:36.860 for it and we were in its native range. We should have found it here where I live in Vermont.
00:31:41.700 I never found it at all in any of my long hikes in the woods. And then as I read up and researched,
00:31:47.880 I realized that it's actually in demise and almost all of it. I think 10% of it 20 years ago was
00:31:53.940 coming from cultivated sources. So like 90% or more was coming from the wild crafted sources.
00:32:00.100 So when we first formed United Plant Savers, we chose Goldenseal as kind of our iconic plant.
00:32:06.700 It was hardy. It's robust. It grows throughout the whole Eastern and Southeastern range,
00:32:12.000 and it was just so medicinal. And all of us who use plant medicine had been using it.
00:32:16.680 And so we started this project. We got a lot of the companies behind us to try to turn it around,
00:32:22.740 to make the majority of golden seal coming from cultivated sources because actually it's quite
00:32:28.200 easy to cultivate. And we were hoping within 10 years that we would meet that goal. But actually
00:32:32.920 within three years time, the majority of the golden seal was starting to come from cultivated
00:32:38.500 sources. When I talk about the companies, I'm not talking about the large pharmaceutical companies or
00:32:43.400 the herb companies that supply places like Walmart and stuff. We're talking about
00:32:47.300 the herbal industry that was farmed by herbalists and you know still are really they're large
00:32:52.260 companies but they're very ethical products all of those companies were completely behind
00:32:57.240 the organic cultivation project and then we also started replanting projects for years and years
00:33:03.240 and years we gave away thousands of golden seal roots to our members so being a member of united
00:33:09.140 plant savers i've planted thousands of little golden seal rootlets in my woodlands not for
00:33:13.960 re-harvesting but just to help re-establish populations that brought up some questions you
00:33:19.780 know among biologists and stuff about the geones of the plants that you're planting in the areas
00:33:25.320 but nonetheless we have native golden seal growing in our woodlands and all around my house I have
00:33:31.060 beautiful patches of it so we have hundreds and hundreds of members who've been planting golden
00:33:36.340 seal so you know golden seal is it's not prolific by any means in the wild but it's starting to come
00:33:42.680 back because and there's other places in the world also who are growing golden seal now as well and
00:33:47.900 you know it brings up that question when you grow a plant outside of its bioregion does it change
00:33:52.180 the energetics and well I think both theoretically you know just thinking about that and also when
00:33:57.280 you do the research and studies it does change it somewhat it doesn't mean that it makes it worse
00:34:02.100 or anything it just changes just like how we each are reflected in the bioregion that we were born
00:34:07.260 in we'd still be the same people if we were maybe raised somewhere else but we would be different
00:34:11.960 But, you know, I always try to remind people that when we talk about native plants, you have to determine how far back you want to go to determine what's native or not, you know, because plants have been traveling around this globe since the very beginning.
00:34:25.000 Most plants are very adept at traveling.
00:34:27.240 They're not necessarily confined to one area as much as we might like to in our lifetime keep them there.
00:34:33.900 There's a lot of levels to that.
00:34:35.240 And there's other ones as well. One that we're working on right now is an herb that's called false unicorn root or chamillarian luteum, which in all the herb books was always listed as being an amazing plant, one of the best plants we have for fertility.
00:34:50.220 And even in my herb book for women that was written in 1993, the year before United Plant Savers was formed, I wrote all about unicorn root and how to use it in recipes and stuff.
00:35:01.920 You know, within the next two or three years, as we began to identify the at-risk plants, false unicorn root is at the top.
00:35:08.900 It's one of the most at-risk in its native environment.
00:35:11.960 And that one, we're having challenges figuring out how to grow it and cultivate it.
00:35:15.360 So we're investing in more farmers and organic growing of this plant so that we can supply the market from organic sources.
00:35:23.060 So to me, that's the real key is supporting small organic farms to grow high quality medicinal plants.
00:35:29.140 And ideally in this country, not that I'm against farming in other countries by any means or supporting people around the world, but our own organic farmers need support here.
00:35:39.460 I look at the American farmer as another endangered species, and we need farmers who are here breeding this powerful good medicine to us so that we don't have to rely on the wild sources.
00:35:52.200 Long term, probably not in my lifetime, perhaps in your lifetime, we might be able to look back at the wild and be able to use from the wild.
00:36:00.740 But that may never happen unless our population really gets smaller, because with the population increases the way that we are, wilderness cannot really take care of us anymore.
00:36:10.140 We have to learn to take care of ourselves in relationship to wilderness.
00:36:15.100 I agree. Humanity is too out of balance to rely on the wildlands.
00:36:20.440 As we speak, we are experiencing daily extinctions in the order of 200 species a day, mostly due to habitat destruction.
00:36:28.640 So we need extraordinary measures to counteract it, and extraordinary sacrifices of personal
00:36:36.300 desires in favor of collective desires.
00:36:40.560 But that aside, a lot of restoration efforts are directed not at preserving habitat from
00:36:47.180 development, but on combating invasive species, which are kind of a scapegoat that takes the
00:36:54.300 heat off the invasion of humans.
00:36:56.640 I'm not saying to ignore all plant invasions, because some are really damaging and native species need protection.
00:37:04.220 But it's important to put in perspective that ecosystems have always been in flux, and plants have been traveling around the globe since they evolved on Earth.
00:37:14.080 Well, and you know, where I live and where you live, if you go out and you just stand and look and feel, like here in Vermont, just 10,000 years ago, everything was entirely different.
00:37:23.960 because we had a glacier that was five miles high
00:37:27.180 that sat on these 14,000-foot mountains
00:37:30.220 and ground them down into little hills.
00:37:32.360 And every species, practically, that lives here now
00:37:35.300 was not here even 10,000 years ago,
00:37:37.660 which is a drop in the bucket in the time of the world.
00:37:41.360 I'm really happy to see people reframing,
00:37:43.720 at least thinking about these invasive plants
00:37:46.140 because quite interesting, some of the most invasive plants
00:37:48.780 are the most powerful medicines for the diseases
00:37:51.440 that people are having right now.
00:37:53.620 And also, when you look at this, what we call the war on invasives, oftentimes the battle that's brought on them is terrible.
00:38:01.040 There's a wonderful new book that came out, I think you'd be very interested, called The War on Invases.
00:38:05.060 It's written by a young woman in Oregon, actually, who was working, doing some restoration work and was hired by the state of Oregon and was just actually shocked and had to really reframe this whole question of what she was doing because it definitely wasn't restoring habitat.
00:38:20.100 But I think, again, when we travel back with plants, when we do what our ancestors were able to do really readily because they were in this relationship with plants all the time, when we travel back with the plants, we realize that, like everything else in the world, has its time, the community shift and change.
00:38:37.780 I mean, obviously, there is something going on that's much bigger than us, and we can't really begin to understand it when we think with the glasses that we have on right now.
00:38:47.000 It's almost like we have to take those down and say, so what are you doing here, really?
00:38:51.520 You know, why are you moving in here?
00:38:53.400 Like, one of the things, and I can't really say if this is true or not, but it was Matthew Wood, who's a brilliant herbalist and one of my dear friends, we were talking about the medicinal properties of purple loosestrife.
00:39:03.200 I don't know if purple loosestrife has gotten a hold on the West Coast, but on the East Coast, it was introduced as a garden plant, and it's stunningly beautiful.
00:39:10.860 But like a lot of loosestrife, it's really invasive, and it took over the wetlands so that sometimes in the late summer wetlands,
00:39:17.820 it should be full of cattails and the arrow roots and all of these different diverse plants will be completely covered in this gorgeous purple flower.
00:39:26.940 So it has, of course, the wildflower societies and biologists up in arms about it, which is understandable.
00:39:33.200 On the other hand, here we have one of the most incredible medicinal plants that you can have for respiratory function and the immune system.
00:39:40.760 And it's moving in, you know, kind of, again, doing not only what it does for us, but perhaps working on some level for the earth that we haven't figured out yet.
00:39:49.500 But what Matthew pointed out, he says the only place that he ever sees the purple loosestrife becomes invasive is where it's been disturbed wetlands.
00:39:59.360 And I started noticing in our own area. So I live in a big wildlife corridor. We have a 500 acre plant sanctuary here that borders 26,000 acres. So we have like 14 miles that you can walk without a road, a house or a fence. It's pretty remarkable. So I can observe nature here quite well.
00:40:19.600 And it's actually true what he said, at least in my area, that where purplustrife is coming in is in disturbed areas.
00:40:27.000 And so a lot of times, these very tenacious, invasive plants, they move in to areas that need healing.
00:40:34.340 And they're probably the most restorative.
00:40:36.620 Look at dandelion and burdock.
00:40:38.340 Look at chickweed.
00:40:39.180 Look at amaranth.
00:40:40.320 And, you know, all of these plants that we tend to think of as really weedy, they're some of our absolute best medicine for tenacious, long-term illnesses.
00:40:48.580 You know, I'm not suggesting that every invasive plant, that we just let them go wild.
00:40:52.740 I don't believe that at all, actually.
00:40:54.260 I think we have to have some stewardship and some mindfulness.
00:40:57.500 It's just like us right now.
00:40:58.620 You know, we've gotten completely out of control, the human race, and we need to have boundaries
00:41:03.340 and we need to have some restrictions in our growth.
00:41:05.560 But we have value and importance and grandeur and passion, you know, and we are part of
00:41:12.320 this huge living cycle.
00:41:13.840 And so I look at these invasive plants in much the same way.
00:41:17.240 The other one that I want to recommend for you to read, if you're interested in this, is Invasive Plant Medicine.
00:41:23.160 So War on Invasives, it just came out.
00:41:25.500 I think it was published by Timber Press, maybe.
00:41:28.820 And then Invasive Plant Medicine, written by a wonderful naturopathic Vermont doctor, actually, Timothy Scott.
00:41:35.640 And he's exploring the medicinal powers of these plants.
00:41:39.300 And again, he's not suggesting that we don't control them and manage them.
00:41:43.720 They're hardy, and so they're going to find their place in the environment.
00:41:47.240 I think that there's a greater consciousness that this earth has
00:41:50.240 and these plants have, and that we really need to ally with that more
00:41:54.280 and not always be creating battles.
00:41:56.800 And especially when I look at these plant populations.
00:41:59.440 I mean, we wouldn't have any dandelions here.
00:42:01.540 And dandelions are one of our not only best survival foods,
00:42:04.620 it's great medicine for our bodies right now and also for our souls.
00:42:08.580 They're about tenacity, holding fast, surviving no matter how toxic it gets.
00:42:17.240 Wilted sunflower, you droop so low
00:42:43.920 And you think that you've lost your glow
00:42:52.920 Oh, wilted sunflower
00:43:02.760 What you don't know is
00:43:07.360 Despite your setbacks
00:43:11.420 You still will grow
00:43:14.720 You are light
00:43:34.200 And in the darkness
00:43:37.020 You can feel that this is true
00:43:40.620 So rest as life unfolds
00:43:49.900 And you will see
00:43:51.980 It's all in your mind
00:43:59.440 Wilter sunflower
00:44:08.660 You look so down
00:44:12.440 And you've tarnished
00:44:16.560 Your golden crown
00:44:19.940 Oh, my sunflower
00:44:23.380 Your colors fade
00:44:27.240 But you have no reason
00:44:30.800 To be afraid
00:44:38.660 You are light
00:44:55.240 And in the darkness
00:44:56.840 You can feel that this is true
00:45:00.760 So rest as life unfolds
00:45:09.560 And you will say
00:45:11.140 It's all
00:45:13.940 In your mind, your mind, your mind
00:45:23.500 We live in a time here in North America
00:45:26.780 where many people have access to all sorts of exotic medicines.
00:45:30.760 People can walk into health food stores or even Walmarts all over the country
00:45:34.900 and buy medicine that's only found deep within the Amazon.
00:45:39.360 Although this seems very tantalizing,
00:45:42.240 we're not shown the true cost of this convenience on the labels.
00:45:45.940 The fossil fuels for transportation,
00:45:48.440 the over-harvesting in sensitive areas, 1.00
00:45:51.120 the indigenous people who are losing their cultural medicine to far-off places. 1.00
00:45:56.120 So I'd love for you to point this spotlight on our weedy superstars here in North America. 0.95
00:46:02.920 What are some medicinal herbs that grow vigorously around all of us?
00:46:07.780 And could you explain why it's actually beneficial ecologically to harvest these robust plants?
00:46:14.440 Well, you know, the origin of the word herb even is weed.
00:46:17.820 It started off the old Anglo-Saxon was woad, well, wart, little King Arthur when he was a little boy, Merlin calling him little wart.
00:46:24.900 It was a little word, herb, like W-O-R-T, wort, woad, weed, and herb.
00:46:30.500 So really, our strongest medicines and the medicines that collect around where people grow, naturally, they come to us, are the weeds, these weedy species.
00:46:40.280 And they nourish us not only as food and medicine, but also, as I mentioned, that very strong spiritual component of tenacity, of the ability to be able to hold fast when the winds blow hard.
00:46:52.680 I think that's one of the things I see right now about our culture is we don't have hold fast.
00:46:57.660 Those types that hold us to the rocks are very weak.
00:47:00.900 And it's in part because the food that we eat and also our spiritual beliefs don't ground us deeply.
00:47:06.140 So just really the mere fact of eating those rooty, weedy plants fosters tenacity,
00:47:13.200 not only in a physical sense through the physicality of those constituents that we're eating,
00:47:17.920 but also in the very essence of who those plant creatures are, those beings.
00:47:23.260 And, you know, really, in truth, and this goes back to thousands of years of history of people's use of plants,
00:47:28.920 all of our everyday illnesses, it was those weedy species that really worked well.
00:47:33.480 Those native sensitive woodland plants, the ones that were a little bit more exotica,
00:47:38.680 you know, they're more reserved for those things that are more rare and uncommon.
00:47:41.740 And one of the things right now that we all need to consider is that when we hear about some fantastic new herb that's just been discovered to have more antioxidants than any other plant on the earth, it's almost always driven by company research.
00:47:57.300 You know, I mean, it's not that it's not true.
00:47:58.960 There's often good research behind it, but it's sales propaganda.
00:48:03.780 Our United Plants Fair's mission is to be conscious of what you are buying.
00:48:07.800 If you do nothing else other than just be conscious of the herbs that you're buying, you can make a huge difference in the marketplace and with the health of the native plant populations.
00:48:19.580 And this can be not just the plants in our own country, but worldwide.
00:48:23.420 So even like when I look at catalogs today, you know, these wonderful herb catalogs by incredible companies, and you're looking down those catalog lists of these herbs, this fantastic array of herbs that are available to us today.
00:48:35.420 looking at a lot of them they could just be grown here so easily i mean there's a lot of them are
00:48:40.620 weedy plants here or natives here and we're importing them from other countries
00:48:44.620 it just doesn't make any environmental sense whatsoever and so that is another step i think
00:48:50.920 the herbal community and the herb industry needs to take not that we don't want to always we no
00:48:56.960 matter how far you go back in history people have you know had exotic foods at you know christmas
00:49:01.700 time. And, you know, like I remember as children, if we got like oranges that were coming from even
00:49:06.600 Southern California, it was like a treat in the winter, but 90% of the food that you got was
00:49:12.000 local. And today really probably 90% of most people's food is not local and coming sometimes
00:49:18.380 from places we have no control. And that is the same with these herbs. So we would have better
00:49:23.800 control, better environmental consciousness, better sustainability. If we start to bring
00:49:29.400 these herbs home again and grow them locally. So it's not again about making judgments about
00:49:34.940 these products, but just the sameness of just shifting this a little bit so that we know that
00:49:41.460 the plants that we're using are being cultivated locally. We know the workers are being treated
00:49:46.960 well. We know they're getting decent wages. And we also know the quality of our products. We can
00:49:52.360 actually judge the quality because we can see where they're being grown. And I think if we were
00:49:57.300 to grow our food and medicine more locally, we would take more pride. And I think if you see
00:50:04.580 the benefits of nurturing the land, it makes you want to do it even more. And it's this
00:50:09.200 positive feedback loop. I'm also so drawn to the vision of tending the wild, to think of humans
00:50:17.620 using our cleverness to enhance an ecosystem rather than deplete and destroy it. And I think
00:50:24.000 it's essential in reimagining our societies whether you're conserving a thousand acres or a
00:50:29.880 small community plot in the city you can help biodiversity return you can bring back native
00:50:35.620 plants and invite natural disturbance patterns you know you can nurture the waterways in turn
00:50:41.260 you'll see birds and pollinators and bugs and the whole cast of characters return to that space
00:50:48.700 so well said you know that's just so beautifully said ayana yeah you know i i wanted to just add
00:50:56.180 it was a thought that came as you were speaking that you know so often we hear that phrase and
00:51:00.540 we probably said it ourselves you know the plants and nature would exist just fine without us
00:51:04.780 and maybe that is true plants and the earth were here before humans and they from all accounts it
00:51:10.420 was all going along just fine but the truth of the matter is that they need us as well and anybody
00:51:16.460 who has relationships with nature and with the plants know that to be true. And so I know for
00:51:21.460 myself living on this piece of land for almost 30 years, the interaction that I've had and all the
00:51:27.480 people that have come here and brought prayer, brought their desire to learn, brought their
00:51:32.220 passion for nature, brought their transforming spirits, all of the prayers that have been here
00:51:37.640 have helped create the land that's here and reawaken the spirit so that when people come here,
00:51:43.700 Even if they just get out of their car, they go, oh, it feels so magical.
00:51:47.680 And I'm thinking, well, it didn't feel that magical 30 years ago.
00:51:50.800 It was damaged woodlands.
00:51:52.140 It was not healthy, you know, and just the care, the stewardship and the prayers, that
00:51:58.140 conscious intention is what I see prayer is, has made a difference.
00:52:02.500 And so, you know, just even on a personal level, like when you go walking in the woods,
00:52:07.320 those plants are beautiful and they're beautiful whether you're there or not.
00:52:09.940 But when you stop and you look around and you embrace those plants, they just, they rise up for you.
00:52:15.260 You know, they reach down for you.
00:52:16.560 They glow in the same way that all of life glows when it's being recognized as beautiful.
00:52:23.460 You know, people who communicate plants and singing to the plants, they know that in singing to the plants, the plants sing back.
00:52:31.300 Again, that reciprocal nature.
00:52:33.640 And so I personally feel in my own small belief system that we're integral to nature.
00:52:39.580 Nature wants us to be healthy and to be part of it.
00:52:43.320 We're part of all the life.
00:52:44.920 You know, I think that if we continue to live out of balance the way that we are as bad
00:52:50.500 little children who haven't learned to contain ourselves, that we will probably drive ourselves
00:52:56.160 into extinction.
00:52:57.200 But all of nature and a huge group of wise individuals are all leading us forward.
00:53:04.820 And so again, I stand in active hope that we are visibly seeing a difference.
00:53:10.760 And I mentioned this to you earlier, when I look at the young people,
00:53:14.360 you know, I have the great fortune to travel a lot and to meet groups after groups after groups.
00:53:19.300 And I always say, I know there are horrible people on this earth.
00:53:22.120 I hear about what they do, but I've never met them.
00:53:24.840 I mostly meet these fabulous people who are so willing to take action.
00:53:30.200 The more we get our hands in the dirt, I think the more confidence it builds in us because we realize that we are so meant to do this and it's not lost.
00:53:41.440 It's just lying dormant, this knowledge to take care of the planet as it takes care of us.
00:53:48.360 And if we take the time just to be and observe and rebuild that confidence again, which is something I've really learned from you and your work,
00:53:56.860 just taking that leap of faith and trusting in our ability to love that which gives us life.
00:54:05.760 Well, you are so inspiring. I'm just inspired by your words and your being and your vision.
00:54:11.000 And, you know, the image that comes to me, Ayana, is I think about when I visit the volcanoes in
00:54:17.340 Hawaii and that new earth that's being formed and it flowed down so hot and it destroyed everything
00:54:23.920 in its path right but even just like two or three years later you'll see these gorgeous plants start
00:54:30.100 to emerge out of this blackened earth this new formed earth and you know we can't see the end
00:54:36.280 of those little plants but you know if we travel back there like maybe two thousand years from now
00:54:41.960 we'd see the hawaiian islands just growing with their lushness right that what we see now is looks
00:54:48.120 like so raw and unformed and new with just one little plant. So those plants have this remarkable
00:54:54.580 ability to restore and they're not only restoring the earth in those ways, but they also restore
00:55:00.540 our spirit. And I think that's partly why when you work with plants, you, even though you have
00:55:06.180 those hard days and you look at the world and things look bleak, even though you have those
00:55:09.980 times, you're always restored because the power of those plants are so restorative. I always say
00:55:15.220 I've never ever seen a grumpy gardener you know you could go out to your garden you can be grumpy
00:55:20.080 a hard day there's a lot of weeds you start working with those plants and a peacefulness
00:55:25.480 and a surety comes over your spirit and I think that's what you're speaking of you know we're
00:55:29.440 we're lucky and fortunate and I just would like to see the whole world you know be restored in
00:55:35.760 that way to have that connection that deep rooted connection with the plants that are
00:55:39.300 everywhere around us calling us begging us to pay attention to them really.
00:55:43.420 well you've been a leading voice in helping people restore that connection
00:55:48.140 and i just want to thank you so much for taking this time today
00:55:51.920 and bringing us these incredible insights with such honesty and such resounding purpose
00:55:58.020 thank you so much yes and just an honor and a joy
00:56:01.760 My young man, oh, he is so fine
00:56:09.320 Sweet Rose, Marie did say
00:56:13.740 She gathered flowers and she sang
00:56:19.400 All about the wedding day
00:56:23.880 Oh, when I was a loss at school
00:56:30.280 I looked out at the sky
00:56:35.420 And I'm on the woodland's pool
00:56:40.440 Gathering sweet brim rose's eye
00:56:45.240 I wish I was a little boy
00:56:52.160 I'm Ayanna Young, and you've been listening to Rosemary Gladstar
00:56:59.100 on Unlearn and Rewild.
00:57:01.540 Today we heard an old, unreleased Cat Stevens song,
00:57:05.660 I Gotta Thing About Sing My Grandson Grow Old.
00:57:09.200 Then The Winds of Change by Rod McKeown.
00:57:12.240 Then a song called Sunflower by Alexa Wildish.
00:57:15.720 And finally, Sweet Rosemary by Sandy Denny of Fairport Convention.
00:57:21.720 Our producer is March Young.
00:57:24.120 Please visit unlearnandrewild.org
00:57:26.780 and sign up for the Mobilize Newswire and make a donation if you can.
00:57:31.900 Also, come out to the New England Women's Herbal Conference in August,
00:57:35.620 where I'll be teaching this year.
00:57:37.500 Thanks for tuning in.
00:57:56.780 We'll be right back.