For The Wild - TIOKASIN GHOSTHORSE on the Power of Humility ⧸237

00:00:00.000 For the Wild is brought to you in part by the Calliopeia Foundation.

00:00:04.900 We are grateful for their continued support and the support of grassroots contributions

00:00:09.780 from listeners like you.

00:00:11.800 Learn more at calliopeia.org.

00:00:14.640 To make a donation, visit forthewild.world slash donate or find us on Patreon.

00:00:21.120 If you'd like to support us in other ways, consider sharing our episodes through social

00:00:25.480 media or leaving us a review wherever you listen to the podcast.

00:00:30.000 Hello, and welcome to For the Wild podcast. I'm Ayanna Young. Today I'm speaking with

00:00:39.880 Teokasin Ghost Horse. If we think peace with earth, rather than peace on earth,

00:00:48.440 one means domination. One means relational. Teokasin is a member of the Cheyenne River

00:00:56.060 Lakota Nation of South Dakota, and has a long history with Indigenous activism and advocacy.

00:01:02.320 Teokasen is the founder, host, and executive producer of First Voices Radio for the last

00:01:07.540 28 years. In 2016, he received a nomination for the Nobel Peace Prize.

00:01:16.860 Well, Teokasen, thank you so much for joining me today. As we were chatting earlier, I have so many

00:01:24.660 of my dear friends have come to me before this interview feeling so jazzed that i get to speak

00:01:30.780 to you so this is a great day for me and thank you for joining us no it's an honor always to join

00:01:37.460 people who are interested in the earth first and uh in our language we see tokahe maka ina is uh

00:01:45.080 we think of mother earth first because the energy is sent to us uploaded to us from her

00:01:50.900 as always. And then later on, I think we can think about downloading from the sky as sky gods

00:01:57.560 as it is, you know, and I think that that's all part of the balance. I'm glad to be here. Thank

00:02:02.720 you. Well, I'd like to begin our conversation by talking about something that I think is becoming

00:02:10.480 more and more prominent, which is the savior complex that can arise when we think about

00:02:15.400 the many issues earth is periled by at the moment. In your article, Indigenous Languages as Cures

00:02:22.520 of the Earth, you write, quote, we all rush in like fools to find more solutions, better remedies,

00:02:29.900 fix-its from the profit makers, and fuzzy warm language to comfort the addicted aspects of

00:02:35.440 ourselves. We make films, Facebook pages, petitions. We ask politicians to do our bidding.

00:02:42.280 We cast votes virtually because we have to save our country, save the world, save the

00:02:48.760 earth, save the whales, save anything but our own sanity, end quote.

00:02:55.920 And I think most of us can relate to this frenetic energy you describe, but I also think

00:03:03.300 about how these actions are propelled by what we might identify as love or passion and rage

00:03:11.060 for what we feel is important. So my question is, how do we interrogate our savior complex

00:03:17.760 while also acknowledging these tremendous emotions of love and loss?

00:03:23.500 That's a great question. And thanks for that little challenge. I was kind of waiting for that.

00:03:28.440 That's great. Thank you for that, Ayanna. Well, you know, in the original intuition of Lakota

00:03:34.980 language, intuition of all of us, I would say without any filters of what intuition is by

00:03:40.420 given a definition from this perspective of the Western mind, which I've been educated in.

00:03:47.440 And as Robert Clemens or Mark Twain said, it took me years to get over it, right? So when I'm into

00:03:55.100 thinking about what happens when we lose contact, we lose relationship with the earth,

00:04:02.200 We are constantly looking for that search for ourselves and others, and it gives way, because of our loss of instruction, it gives way to the fact that somebody else can come and rescue us.

00:04:18.800 And when I think about, okay, the original instructions, the original intuition is a fact that even today people go out to the wild, go out to nature, go someplace to heal, basically, to understand.

00:04:34.540 And usually it's this sort of benevolence of, I can go to the wild, to the earth, to nature, to listen.

00:04:44.380 And when I think about that, it's, well, I think it's different when we were taught as young people that we can, yes, we can go to the earth and mother nature to listen.

00:04:55.960 but in that this the fullness of the thought where most indigenous peoples kind of you know

00:05:04.220 look in that wonderment and what do you mean going to the earth and listen for lessons actually

00:05:10.100 and then what we understand is as one native person i would just say this way is that we

00:05:17.020 usually have gone to the earth to find out how mother earth is listening to us

00:05:22.720 and that takes a lifetime it just doesn't come up with a cause and effect you know we go we get

00:05:29.600 rewarded we come back and then we have the answer the solution so I think the savior mentality is

00:05:36.120 tied up in the cause and effect of we have solutions to save what we can of our our possessive

00:05:45.040 our environment, our climate, our earth, everything is possessive. And so when it comes

00:05:53.800 to the savior mentality, the salvation point mentality, is that there is always going to be

00:06:00.540 salvation for us as long as we follow the rules and regulations of an authority figure, religion,

00:06:08.160 science, or government. And all those have authority figures, where you look at it the

00:06:13.620 other way in relational languages and in indigenous languages there is no need for

00:06:20.040 monotheism and authority because that domination does not fit authority well it does actually

00:06:27.340 domination and authority go together but domination does not fit relational languages

00:06:33.000 and relational languages everything everything is in scope everything is relative everything is

00:06:39.540 related, and there's no need to get connected, or even save that which is giving you all the

00:06:46.320 answers, meeting all your needs as Mother Earth does. So Mother Earth does indeed listen to us

00:06:53.000 and gives us all that we need, all our cries, all our whimpers, all our prayers. She answers it,

00:07:00.340 gives us food, gives us water, gives us warmth. And we learn in between those like warm and cold,

00:07:07.420 We learn what the balance is. We learn what the rhythm is.

00:07:10.940 And so once we are into the rhythm, you can really start questioning, what is savior mentality?

00:07:17.380 What is salvation point mentality? We're always looking for the solution.

00:07:22.100 So I think rather than looking for the solution, what happens is we need to acknowledge where we are at in this consciousness or in this continuum of being in the present.

00:07:34.300 And this comes through when you speak your indigenous language.

00:07:38.680 And most indigenous languages that I know of don't have nouns.

00:07:43.780 So therefore, there cannot be a savior mentality.

00:07:48.440 Now, you see how the Western mind, I can tell you the Western mind, tries to take all of what I just said and put it into the box of, I need to find the answer to why is this?

00:08:00.300 We need a reference. We need something so that we can learn how to, as if how to was a manual to do something.

00:08:09.800 And what we've forgotten is that Mother Earth is always listening to us.

00:08:15.440 Mother Earth is always teaching us lesson.

00:08:17.760 There's not one time in human history that humans can teach Mother Earth any lesson, you see.

00:08:26.020 and so that's our arrogance to think that we can control the earth we can you know do what we want

00:08:31.980 to the earth what we want to the earth and even save the earth and so in that sense you know the

00:08:38.740 western mind the euro western wants to be at the top of the heap so that they can i don't know what

00:08:46.060 it is reward cause and effect and take in reward or given reward type of mentality a dualism and

00:08:54.540 you see that mother earth is not like that. It's very many, many qualities of communication she

00:08:59.700 has. So, uh, I guess that's a long way of understanding or trying to answer the question

00:09:04.520 of what is savior mentality. Thank you for that. Yeah. It's something that was coming up for me

00:09:12.980 was maybe it's about control and that need of control potentially stems from some type of fear.

00:09:20.420 you know it's it's interesting because i have really been stepping away from the idea of

00:09:27.740 solutions or savior mentality although i know i was very wrapped up in that you know back in my

00:09:34.220 just honestly a few years ago and so it feels relieving to challenge the savior mentality and

00:09:41.580 challenge that frantic need to be dominant whether that dominance is coming from good intentions or

00:09:50.140 not. Yeah, so it's really helpful hearing that response. And similarly, I think about

00:09:57.360 non-indigenous folks' hyperfixation with climate collapse in terms of end times, rather than

00:10:04.500 thinking about this moment as being a part of the Earth cycle. And because all of the data

00:10:09.540 on warming temperatures, depleted soil, loss of diversity, and I understand why so many of us

00:10:15.880 struggle with this. But speaking for myself, the more I've learned about climate collapse,

00:10:21.740 the less prepared I feel, the less I know. And that makes sense because if we are mired in a

00:10:29.460 spiritual problem, then of course the data isn't going to do much for us. So I wonder if you could

00:10:35.380 speak to that space between education and wisdom as we try to wrap our minds and hearts around

00:10:42.320 earth's transformation? Again, another good question. In 1492, you find that Bartholomew

00:10:50.060 de las Casas, the priest who went with Columbus and followed up a few years later about how the

00:10:56.720 native peoples and those islands saw the comers, the newcomers, and what the difference was

00:11:05.880 and how they denied the earth, how they conquered the earth, 0.98

00:11:11.120 how they did this possession ceremony on one of the islands

00:11:14.980 and stuck a staff into the earth and claimed her, in a sense.

00:11:22.720 So there was a patriarchy coming in with about 2,000 years

00:11:26.580 of that same language of domination.

00:11:29.300 It's in basically the language and the behavior,

00:11:32.980 hear all of the explorations, all the domination, all the colonization before they got here.

00:11:39.220 So what we're saying, what I'm saying is that the climate denial has been since we noticed it back

00:11:45.500 then. And we've been saying this for a long time. Native peoples have noticed this. And we've been

00:11:51.700 telling people all along. So it would make sense to me, well, if we've been saying these things

00:11:58.700 for 500 years why aren't they listening to us you know because we're listening to the earth as

00:12:05.840 much as we know that the earth is listening to us and this is why we don't want to take too much or

00:12:10.800 even apply theory which a lot of indigenous language don't have in their original base

00:12:17.780 languages there's no need to theorize no need to show like a theater and put on an act or a play

00:12:24.640 it's really about what is practical mystery mystery is the energy at that transformation

00:12:31.780 so when we see the earth changing we want to you know because we're uncomfortable

00:12:37.340 and then we we tend to blame ourselves which is partly true it's only blaming ourselves as far

00:12:44.740 as we don't want to take responsibility for what we are still doing to ourselves as well as the

00:12:50.820 rest of life. But you see, we always have faith in the earth, with the earth, because that's where

00:12:57.360 our language comes from. The earth doesn't lie, so therefore our languages do not lie.

00:13:02.600 And so when we speak directly, that's called rude, that's called no manners, that's called

00:13:08.760 everything that doesn't fit the pretension of manners in the Western European mind,

00:13:15.680 because they've been corralled into speaking a restrictive language,

00:13:20.860 a restrictive thinking for that long until they got here 500 years ago.

00:13:26.080 And so you think about how that began way back there in Western democracy.

00:13:29.940 And when we think about the climate denial,

00:13:32.860 people were trying to leave the earth even then.

00:13:36.740 And then once they were able to achieve some amount of civilizational success,

00:13:42.380 Then that's when they start denigrating those peoples who still have and had and lived with the consciousness of Earth.

00:13:51.780 So basically they had peace with Earth. These other ones were mental justice seekers.

00:13:58.140 And so all the laws, even today in the U.S. government, any government, is to control the human mind through man-made or human-made laws.

00:14:09.780 Because it's all about mental justice. It's all about keeping you away from the earth justice, the true justice that is with the earth. And so, yes, education becomes somewhat of a secondary environment, becomes somewhat of a secondary thought.

00:14:26.980 and because we can be educated about the earth and as you said said earlier becomes all numbers

00:14:33.540 and measurements and weights and what what good is it to us so yes i think part of this climate

00:14:40.380 denial that we're just so hyper on is that we we have this thing that's halfway true that we listen

00:14:47.340 to it says trust science but we don't know what we're saying with with the etymology of the word

00:14:53.780 science and we could we could look at that and that's why I asked others who speak this language

00:15:00.120 better than I do to look at their their etymology and what are they basically spelling you know what

00:15:07.480 is their spell that they're putting on themselves as others because you this language we speak

00:15:12.580 doesn't go that far back or back that far um so it's it's it's it's this it's too big for

00:15:20.840 this mind of restrictive thinking. But our hearts understand that there's something going on.

00:15:29.860 Our hearts never say it's wrong or right. It's our minds who follow the rules and regulations and

00:15:36.160 don't want to believe others because we have been schooled and educated that we are right because

00:15:41.880 we have the measurements right here. And that science always changes because that science is

00:15:47.800 controlled by Earth, if I could use the word control, every time the Earth changes, those

00:15:53.200 numbers and statistics and weights and predictions and whatever, forecasts, everything changes.

00:16:00.040 Because, you know, half of that is 50-50 chance anyway. But you have these so-called uncivilized

00:16:07.460 primitive Native people who've been kind of impractical all this time. And as my uncle says, 1.00

00:16:13.620 you know in in a sort of a metaphorical way you can you can't take it with you so why take it now

00:16:20.020 you see and so when we look at this is that is that what's going on now are we trying to save

00:16:26.680 the earth to take with us or are we trying to leave leave a legacy and see the work within our

00:16:32.700 time so that we're proud of ourselves and take credit for us because i have a piece of paper

00:16:37.860 that says, I know something because I followed the rules and regulations of that dualism. And

00:16:43.760 when it comes to the practicality of that, I could not really apply any of that education

00:16:49.560 to the work that is required by the earth, because that education always taught me,

00:16:56.420 oh, I'm doing my best. I'm doing my best. Because a lot of us had that money to go to school,

00:17:02.740 right? Then it really drew you away from the spirit of what the earth meant to be. And this

00:17:09.520 is why looking at earth transformation is really that we're transfixed, that we can change the

00:17:17.160 transformation so that it's saved for those who could afford to save the whale, those who can

00:17:23.100 afford to save the national park. And all those ideas are just beyond indigenous folks, the ones 1.00

00:17:31.160 who aren't colonized they're like wait a minute how can you do that when mother earth is already

00:17:36.640 in movement never questioning always moving and caring about us at the same time now that's

00:17:44.540 the understanding that i think we have disconnected ourselves from yes

00:17:50.460 yeah i'm really sitting with my own desire to protect what is left and and also

00:18:04.860 wanting to be in relationship rather than wanting to go back into that savior mentality but it's

00:18:11.700 really challenging especially with the emotional just the grief of what is being lost

00:18:20.700 And so I think I'm going to have to sit with this more just on a personal level of how

00:18:25.080 to reckon with the reality of this time and what it actually means to be in right relationship

00:18:32.000 with each other and the earth in general.

00:18:37.980 So yeah, it's a really big one.

00:18:41.800 Something that's come up in conversation for me is the importance of shattering binary

00:18:47.960 thinking and welcoming complication because so many of us are finally learning that simplifications

00:18:55.020 and processes of efficacy are not to our benefit or betterment. They're certainly easier to navigate

00:19:03.220 and profit off of, but that's about it. And so I wonder if you could relate this to how showing up

00:19:09.860 for the earth requires one to remove themselves from the nature-humanity binary. Or perhaps if

00:19:17.360 you think there is a relationship between revering complexity and shattering binary thinking?

00:19:24.000 We have a saying that we kind of reinterpret into all my relations. It's called metakoi oyasi.

00:19:33.360 And really, metakoi oyasi, you cannot feel, you cannot think in dualism. You can think only in

00:19:42.280 inclusion and if there is no word for exclusion in our languages then you see how further along

00:19:50.340 we've come in that process of evolving our spirits into understanding the transformation

00:19:56.720 the complexity the simplicity that is the complexity because people want to think that

00:20:03.460 they have to down dress or the idea of complexity so it's simple but yet if you're speaking the

00:20:12.060 languages of the earth like i said earth doesn't lie and so your languages are along the complexities

00:20:17.400 of the earth and you see how many so much variance of species and how to deal with the weather and

00:20:26.240 all you know all of that is to not think that we're in control of it or even that god made this

00:20:33.100 for us you see and so once we let go of those domination thought processes that more than two

00:20:41.740 dimensional thought process wake up and they come and you're like wait now we can't know all of this

00:20:48.460 we're spending our time gathering information without ever experiencing it so we are we are

00:20:54.940 stuck with the ideas of information and knowledge and then we refer to well someone who's who's

00:21:02.100 tenured in a educational process is wise now because he's tenured he's older she's older

00:21:08.940 and so they're wise and yet those textbook uh knowledge keepers are not ever experienced so 1.00

00:21:17.140 they may go out and study here and there but when you have indigenous peoples always in the rhythm 0.98

00:21:22.480 of the earth they're not educated but yet in the sense of taking this concept of education and 1.00

00:21:29.880 trying to put it on native people it's it's like injecting with them with something right and 1.00

00:21:36.200 They're not ever going to understand it because they're already too far ahead of education that this system requires in order for you to get ahead. 1.00

00:21:45.620 But with the indigenous processes of Earth, it doesn't need education.

00:21:49.640 It needs the experience with. 0.99

00:21:51.940 And that way we spend all of our times trying to reinterpret something that we can't wrap it around our minds and we're stuck in the same cycle of cause and effect.

00:22:02.120 How do you do this and what do you do?

00:22:05.020 And that is the point of privilege that we come from,

00:22:08.300 is that I have a question, you answer it for me,

00:22:11.180 and you tell me how to do something so I can take it easy

00:22:13.980 the rest of my life type of thing.

00:22:16.020 But yet we avoid the suffering, we avoid the pain,

00:22:20.100 we avoid the grief, as you said.

00:22:22.760 So I think one thing to know is that that energy that we all have,

00:22:28.340 every one of us, even other life forms,

00:22:30.420 is that because every moment there is no question that every moment we live in innocence now without

00:22:39.540 the ties or the tethers to guilt you know so every moment is innocent and then it's true it's not

00:22:46.180 because you're a child that you're innocent and then you become guilty and you know dark and all

00:22:51.500 these things it's no every that energy is the same it's innocent it doesn't matter if you're

00:22:57.300 85 or you're one year old that energy is still the same it's just how you are living with this

00:23:04.040 as you see children are living with the energy but because of the programming a system we get

00:23:09.760 away from living with the energy and we start using reality rather than living reality and so

00:23:16.840 that energy changes until we run into people's hell i've never really left that energy and

00:23:23.180 the acknowledgement of the continuum of just being in the present all the time,

00:23:27.520 rather tied to the past, rather than being, you know, in anticipation of a future,

00:23:34.020 the hope process, you know, because we have the education,

00:23:37.860 therefore our technology is going to save for us, save it for us.

00:23:41.600 And I think part of that is understanding inclusivity,

00:23:45.420 your relationship rather than connectivity or exclusiveness, you see.

00:23:53.180 We'll be right back.

00:24:23.180 Thank you.

00:24:53.180 Oh, yes. I really see that. And yeah, I'd like to ask you about the use of prophecy,

00:25:04.620 because I think this is a term that has really been misunderstood by New Age understanding.

00:25:11.320 But you point out that prophecy is not the ego's voyage into the future, and it's not inherently

00:25:17.680 punitive. And to some extent, I wonder if we really understood the use of prophecy. It might

00:25:24.200 encourage us to desire different outcomes altogether. So can you clear up some of the

00:25:29.840 misunderstandings you hear most often when people bring up the idea of prophecy?

00:25:35.000 I think the current definition we use in the Western world, I'll make the difference here,

00:25:41.200 is we tend to make these prophecies like prophets

00:25:49.220 into magical ones or magic people.

00:25:53.140 And it's kind of true, but it's still with, you know, chance.

00:25:57.480 And if that doesn't come true, it's like forecasting the weather

00:26:00.660 and it goes wrong, then you hate the weather

00:26:02.980 because you didn't forecast it right.

00:26:04.980 So that definition is with whoever has taken the true essence

00:26:11.180 and the definition of prophecy away and put it into a mental concept.

00:26:17.900 And so when I think about, well, what is a prophet in that sense?

00:26:23.080 In a lot of indigenous languages, a prophet would be one who has observed the earth

00:26:28.940 as an earth person, an earth being, and knows what the seasons are,

00:26:35.700 and knows that the stars, the following the stars,

00:26:39.680 and knows that intelligence, right?

00:26:43.180 And so you see how much or how less these prophets

00:26:47.380 really think of human invention, human technology.

00:26:51.500 You can dig up the earth and make all kinds of machines

00:26:54.000 to say, oh, look, we can at least predict the earthquake.

00:26:59.840 And all it is is that, oh, we dug up the earth.

00:27:02.020 you know oh we we can dig up the earth and and cut down all the trees and then we can predict

00:27:09.160 that there will be you know land erosion uh from the book that's made by trees and still not see

00:27:16.340 we only see the elephant in the room and no one talks about the room you know so it's a system

00:27:22.280 that i'm saying the prophets the prophecy that is punitive if it doesn't come true you hate it

00:27:29.760 you don't like it and therefore it's a given reward system in the other way of thinking

00:27:35.240 prophecy is coming from experience if you do it this way then it may come true and if you don't

00:27:44.780 do it that way well you know there's chance that it won't come true and you're just kind of you

00:27:50.880 know shooting it into the darkness so to speak so i think it's more based on reality and the more

00:27:58.060 experienced you are with the history passed on by women actually the detailing history passed on

00:28:06.740 generations and generations and we're talking 20 000 generations on this side of the earth

00:28:13.020 you know and from that primal thought as we say we can't say we begin over there we're using western

00:28:20.880 time scale so 20 000 years of passing the same song the same songs is practically the same language

00:28:29.700 to understand what prophecy is that you can actually oh yeah those those birds they come

00:28:36.760 back every seven years and you know we can say that that much but that's practical that's practical

00:28:44.040 prophecy so and and then if you understand the energy here's the other thing with this ayana

00:28:49.580 is if you understand the energy of what magic truly is magi is not the genie that people think

00:28:57.000 because that's another westernized monotheism is the magi is actually a bird who uses the tool of

00:29:05.240 the earth to make magic and what have we done what are we doing as human beings a fish is

00:29:12.360 using the water and even the air with the tools that they've been given and that's magic

00:29:19.780 You see, we cannot live in water.

00:29:21.640 We cannot live in fire.

00:29:22.680 We cannot live without a plane up there in the sky.

00:29:26.700 We can't live in stone.

00:29:28.580 And yet all of those tools of the earth are being used properly.

00:29:33.180 The energy is being used properly by the magi, the wise ones of the earth who use the tools of the earth properly.

00:29:41.620 And with our technology, we become magicians.

00:29:44.820 We fool ourselves, we fool everything else, but we cannot fool nature.

00:29:49.680 So these magicians, this illusion that we can save the earth that we've been talking about before,

00:29:55.320 and the complexity of that energy is not understood because we don't speak the language.

00:30:01.060 We try to put it into quantum physics, mathematical formulas, and yet that goes only so far.

00:30:08.220 But when we put it into within the language of the energy we speak,

00:30:11.720 then you have a living language that goes along with the prophecy that you talk about.

00:30:17.740 So, you know, in that way, we have to maybe redefine or talk about prophecy a little bit more

00:30:22.740 rather than the accepted idea of what prophecy is in the biblical sense.

00:30:30.420 There's a lot to chew on there.

00:30:33.420 That was, yeah, I hear that word so often these days, and that was really clarifying.

00:30:40.120 so thank you yeah i want to read another quote that you wrote and it's i would further the idea

00:30:48.320 of getting giving the land back to earth herself first then the native people so we can live with

00:30:55.140 our languages cultures and mistakes that we made by accepting education too easily and almost

00:31:01.580 losing the wisdom of experience with her i would suggest doing that in a hurry before earth takes

00:31:08.100 the land back for herself from all of you ownership and steward thinking people, end quote.

00:31:15.660 This is a topic that continually needs to be brought up so that it may take on a life of its

00:31:21.880 own. So bluntly, I'd like to ask about giving land back to herself and the profound beauty within

00:31:30.020 that and how that sentiment fits into the larger conversation of land back. In the beginning,

00:31:36.680 I talked about domination we have no word idea or concept of the word domination so that means

00:31:44.120 that we can't lord over we can't dominate the earth in a sense we have to relate and because

00:31:50.520 that feels healthier when you're isolated in domination you feel like you're you're god

00:31:56.240 playing god so to speak and earth is kind of like having patience with that I suppose all this time

00:32:02.460 but she's always been giving us the land right she's always giving it to us through the food with

00:32:08.960 everything that grows with her the the warmth the whatever showing us lessons so in that way

00:32:16.020 you know we we can never understand how she really truly restores herself because that science says

00:32:23.540 we need to take her apart in order to understand how she restores herself but in taking her part

00:32:28.940 we lose a little bit of ourselves from actually understanding a relationship

00:32:32.660 and a spiritual energy connection in that way. 0.99

00:32:36.140 So when you think about Native peoples who are living with that language without science,

00:32:42.240 but the science is in it, living with the culture of the earth

00:32:45.600 and understanding the mistakes that we made now,

00:32:48.960 especially with this Western education that helps us to lose how we live with the earth.

00:32:55.240 In other words, that land that we lived on was taken away from us.

00:33:00.180 So we start losing that experience with her.

00:33:02.640 We start losing the language and start losing the culture. 0.78

00:33:06.180 And we start making the mistakes of the Western, what education accepts.

00:33:11.640 And so once we have that, we get a little bit further away every year with every generation.

00:33:16.700 And we want to hurry up and let's get it now.

00:33:20.780 Let's get it back because that's what the earth is doing.

00:33:23.120 And that idea comes from the Western mind. But when I say, let's do this in a hurry before the earth takes the land back for itself, from all of you, is that in the beginning, again, we need to lose the idea of ownership and stewardship, because that's one and the same.

00:33:42.080 It's very dichotomous. And any thinking people would understand that the answers are already provided of how we cannot ever own the land. And I know it sounds like I'm rhetorical here, but it's an idea of, so the intelligence that's been given to you by all the four elements, it's given to you.

00:34:07.280 And it's not that we own that. It's a gift. And that gift keeps on giving, so to speak, if we have the respect and not try to ownership, not try to own, not try to steward, and definitely not try to dominate anybody or anything that already has a connection, already is relating to that.

00:34:29.660 So if anything, this is more of a statement to the Western world that, yes, give the land back to us, because we'll know what to do with it, even if we make our mistakes by saying it's free to everybody, and now everybody else owns it.

00:34:45.600 But the difference is, Ayanna, that we as Native people are still home.

00:34:50.880 We may be landless, but we're still home.

00:34:53.020 And that means that tie can never be severed, no matter what the system does or what the people thinks that we should be civilized. Yet civilization is what's killing with ownership, stewardship, the education.

00:35:09.480 I can just go on and on and say what's wrong with the Western thought process, but in the Western hemisphere, the thought process is so deep that consciousness, no matter who brings this new type of education onto it, that education will never work with it because it doesn't know how to. 0.51

00:35:29.360 It comes from overseas where they put everything on and dominated and kings and lords and feudalism and hierarchy and, you know, they use the language of war. 0.71

00:35:40.900 And so this language of war is really now against the earth. 0.97

00:35:44.580 That's why we have to, we think in dualisms, enemy or friend.

00:35:49.600 And right now it's like we're using science to really try to save ourselves from what earth eventually will do.

00:35:56.240 is imminent, that she needs to change, because we're the ones that are suffering from lack of

00:36:03.200 or loss of connection to the earth. The earth is not suffering from connection to us. She's always

00:36:09.820 relating to us, you see? So what's the first medicine is to dokahe makaina, is to think of

00:36:16.560 the earth first, and the heart, and the water. In the morning you get up, you're doing a ceremony

00:36:21.780 all together with with water right and and the next thing is well you look for food and you look

00:36:28.420 for for for warmth and you look for these things that earth is giving to you but where is our

00:36:33.920 appreciation for that so and that the more we appreciate the more we understand that we have 0.70

00:36:41.600 to give back the land to the earth you know because it's herds anyway so let her do let her

00:36:47.000 restore with us trying to stop trying to put fertilizer into places she doesn't want it

00:36:52.020 because we're only adjusting we're adjusting earth to our needs rather than ourselves being

00:36:58.860 needed by the earth so to speak you know we don't have to do that anymore we we have to

00:37:04.380 adjust to the earth and i think any thinking people would understand that

00:37:17.000 What is there beyond?

00:37:19.460 Get up and fight, get up and see

00:37:22.600 What is there beyond?

00:37:26.060 Horizon, horizon, horizon

00:37:30.280 Sisters, sister, brothers, brothers

00:37:36.020 You are strong and beautiful

00:37:40.300 Sisters, sister, brothers

00:37:45.900 Brothers, you're made of nature

00:37:50.240 Nature's and strong and tall

00:37:54.720 You're beautiful

00:37:57.400 You're beautiful

00:38:00.440 You're beautiful

00:38:03.420 You're beautiful

00:38:07.160 You're beautiful

00:38:09.700 I have so much going on in my mind, but I know that it would just come out in mumbling bumbles

00:38:20.760 right now in response. But I do want to bring back into the conversation something you were

00:38:27.060 speaking earlier about the noun-centered languages versus earth languages. And there's a few questions

00:38:35.360 I wanted to bring up here.

00:38:36.860 One, I wonder if you could share

00:38:38.820 how languages become noun-centered

00:38:41.220 and why the specific delineation matters so much.

00:38:45.300 And then, you know,

00:38:46.820 is it possible to un-noun

00:38:49.120 or de-noun the languages that we have?

00:38:52.340 Like, is that even possible?

00:38:54.420 Because I think many of us know

00:38:56.160 the limitations of the English language,

00:38:58.120 for instance,

00:38:58.920 yet we continue to speak English. 0.66

00:39:01.020 Its dominance is all around us.

00:39:02.900 And then the question becomes,

00:39:05.360 Do we deconstruct English in English?

00:39:08.580 Yeah, it's kind of like, I hear you.

00:39:12.680 It would be more difficult, I think, for a native person to try to decolonize or colonize.

00:39:22.080 Yeah, in that sense of decolonize is meaning we have to not speak that language.

00:39:27.260 because it throws us off from the many-dimensional effects

00:39:32.200 that are naturally within us tied to the Earth or with the Earth,

00:39:37.300 and it puts us into a two-, three-model thinking,

00:39:41.100 three-dimensional mode at the most.

00:39:43.200 And then we tend to think out of that restrictiveness.

00:39:47.400 And so we want to control that.

00:39:49.240 So we title everything, we noun everything, we subjugate everything,

00:39:53.920 we objectify everything.

00:39:55.840 so we think of essentially thingify everything materially and so we think we can do that to all

00:40:03.140 life on earth other people you know other worlds and so there's no uh respect in that now what

00:40:11.320 what i've done is try to reinterpret what i've been told by the lakota elders that i talk with

00:40:19.060 and just kind of coming to an understanding oh yeah this is what they mean you know is that if

00:40:24.840 we turn, if we're able to think, and I use these three words in two different ways, is

00:40:32.080 if we think peace with earth rather than peace on earth, one means domination, one means

00:40:41.300 relational. So the relational language is found within English. And how do you relate?

00:40:48.600 so in the original way to understand this language in indigenous language and is that

00:40:56.380 what we do is describe the energy and then we describe the motion of the energy and that way

00:41:03.880 it makes makes everything alive so everything is alive to us everything is sentient

00:41:10.580 and now we can you know like oh but my mind says that pen that i write with cannot think

00:41:19.980 but yet you see what comes out of it you see that it puts symbols down it writes so it's in our

00:41:28.300 language you call it we chazo you know the energy of of wood that comes from the sun so to speak

00:41:35.160 So it's a consciousness of the sun, the wood, and that's what we come and we put it down in thoughts.

00:41:42.840 And so we're always in relationship with motion.

00:41:47.400 And so when I think about what happens in English is, okay, this pen is no longer a pen.

00:41:54.760 It's penning, you see, or that cup you're drinking your tea with.

00:42:00.600 It's no longer a cup.

00:42:02.060 It's cupping.

00:42:02.820 so everything starts coming alive once you start understanding the language of noun so cup can be

00:42:11.940 a noun it's like understanding self of course we all say it starts with self when you understand

00:42:17.080 I as a noun and you look up in the dictionary it's a noun but in Lakota I is a verb you are a verb

00:42:25.420 you're vibrating you're alive you're moving so then that removes the idea that there really

00:42:32.340 needs not be an idea of I or me or my or mine or ours because it's not about you but it is about

00:42:40.540 you being with all that sentient life and that you know you're always a part of something you

00:42:46.800 start feeling like you're never going to be excluded and separated or lonely so this is what

00:42:53.240 the changing language is it doesn't mean that you have to go back in time that's you just have to

00:42:59.680 recognize where you are so that you know how far you've got to go you know i don't say involvement

00:43:06.620 evolvement i'm saying be involved in evolvement that is a continuum of the earth of of the cosmos

00:43:15.180 and you'll go and you start understanding oh indigenous folks they were sitting there 200,000

00:43:23.020 years ago watching the stars the same way as astronomers today do but yet they because of

00:43:29.780 their understanding of that energy they know what star we can't see with telescopes until

00:43:37.660 the telescope gets closer to that star and then the native people will say oh that's so and so

00:43:43.340 you've seen that with kogi you've seen that with people that that we've been their knowledges have 1.00

00:43:51.120 been held back in the western hemisphere because it's based on supremacy because the western world 1.00

00:43:57.380 has to be right it has to be right and by god we are right because look what we've done to you for

00:44:04.280 you people we bought you computers and the atom bomb and bought you wars and process you know we

00:44:10.800 can name all of those things so i think by simply bringing things are are alive that they already

00:44:18.000 are by changing our language I think that's going to be a process I don't want to I don't think I'm

00:44:23.820 going to see it in my lifetime do I need to except that the that idea has been in work in works in 1.00

00:44:32.840 progress within indigenous peoples for forever as far as I understand

00:44:37.640 just to continue on this language topic for one more question in indigenous languages

00:44:47.780 as cures for the earth, you write, quote, earth languages are not lies or manipulation

00:44:53.320 to serve political, religious, economic, or scientific rationalizations. They are not invoked,

00:45:00.960 entrusted, or gifted to be placed within linear boxes of data. They are spoken every moment as

00:45:06.400 cures where all praise goes to the earth, end quote. And yeah, I'll be honest, you know, some

00:45:14.940 of my hesitations around talking about the importance of language is I think about you know

00:45:20.920 the popularization of traditional ecological knowledge and how many of us welcome to the call

00:45:26.580 to rethink our language you know the pronouns we give to the more than human world our understandings

00:45:32.660 of kinship but ultimately this just transpired a change at the level of perception not relation

00:45:39.880 And so I do question the connection between language and condition, at least for English speakers. So maybe you could respond to this or elaborate a bit further on the idea that language exists beyond speech and how we need to think about language as action.

00:45:56.220 yes wow okay that that would probably take longer than my answer which would when i would teach at

00:46:05.200 yale when i was talking to grad students and people looking for their phds and and you know

00:46:12.180 i'm like who am i to be teaching all these peoples who are you know have these ideas that 0.98

00:46:18.420 they're coming to extract from this indigenous person about how to further their their um i 0.94

00:46:25.600 don't know prestige in this society because it's based on information of what they took from other 0.96

00:46:30.820 peoples so I go back to and this probably has something new with it tell me if it doesn't or

00:46:35.640 not so it's a little story that I read way back in the 90s about a young person who had the grad

00:46:42.660 degree and and had gone and studied cultural anthropology and he was able to get a grant and go

00:46:50.980 to zimbabwe i think it was and and notice and and work and live among his grant was for usually

00:46:59.520 20 years i think it was and it was a good grant and at the end he was he's supposed to make this

00:47:05.660 book right write this book so he lived among the the the bush men the bush people the tiny ones

00:47:12.980 for 20 years and and he would write every day and he got into their cultural moors and

00:47:19.320 And, you know, what usually happens is that they understood what he was doing.

00:47:23.740 And so he lived among them, or at least close to them.

00:47:28.000 And he had to come back to England once in a while to verify what he was doing.

00:47:33.480 And so he would go back and he would miss them so much.

00:47:36.860 And then later on in his years, he began to understand that my time is up, you know, 20 years and I'm going to run out of money.

00:47:46.760 Should I ask for more?

00:47:47.700 They had mountains of information. And all that time he's seen transitions of indigenous generations, maybe two, three generations, come and go.

00:47:59.380 And he understood all that whole process of how they accepted death so well, because they were actually living without thinking of need.

00:48:08.300 and so once they he saw these bushmen he on his last very last day he had sat on a on a hill

00:48:19.320 with an incline sloping down to a valley and so he was looking down his valley he looked up and he

00:48:26.120 saw this most beautiful sunset you could ever see in Africa and he thought why did I miss this 20

00:48:34.140 years and I didn't pay attention until now I've got a lonely heart and I see these things and so

00:48:40.760 he kind of romanticized that a little bit and he saw these sat you know down it was kind of in the

00:48:47.700 evening watching the sunset and he saw this little chimpanzee kind of walking on three and his one

00:48:55.880 arm and two legs and in one arm he had a little melon and in that melon he was kind of walking

00:49:01.440 with three and then down below him and the chimpanzee kind of he's watching the chimpanzee

00:49:07.540 and the chimpanzee kind of glanced up at the sun and then stopped and looked again and he just

00:49:13.680 kind of looked at the sun he sat down basically in front of the man who the cultural anthropologist

00:49:20.800 who was watching the little chimpanzee and a chimpanzee sat there and looked at the sun the

00:49:27.460 same way he was looking at the sun and then a little chimpanzee took the melon stood up on his 0.68

00:49:34.000 hind legs and held it above his head to the sun as long as he could because you know they can't 0.53

00:49:40.620 stand very long on their hind their feet as long as we can so and then he stood there for minutes

00:49:47.420 and then finally he put the the melon down and then he left that was his offering to the sun

00:49:54.240 And that cultural anthropologist cried because it was the first time he realized that he didn't know a thing.

00:50:04.160 He thought he knew everything because my traditional Western education taught me that I'm supposed to know everything as much as possible.

00:50:11.740 And so he told his helpers, the Bushmen, who had his packages, his papers all packed up, ready to go the next morning. 0.86

00:50:27.980 And he put them all in a pile and he torched them. 0.75

00:50:33.600 he burned all his 20 years of research up because he thought he knew about what culture was and that

00:50:41.320 little monkey had taught him everything about respect and then he never we never heard from

00:50:48.460 again he never wrote the book we heard the story so when i'm thinking what can we do

00:50:56.340 where we are in this society at this time

00:51:00.580 is really look to the earth once again

00:51:03.960 without romanticizing it

00:51:06.020 without romanticizing indigenous peoples

00:51:08.360 or having the answer

00:51:09.420 we are just only giving the relationship

00:51:13.340 we still have with the earth

00:51:14.980 what little that is

00:51:16.080 but to take that away

00:51:18.320 would surely mean that there will be no more roots

00:51:21.020 for the rest of humanity

00:51:22.340 I know it because if the rest of humanity

00:51:24.840 or trying to ship off into another planet or something.

00:51:30.160 And so going back to that,

00:51:32.140 we don't have the formula of colonization or decolonization

00:51:35.340 because that's a formula.

00:51:37.100 And we're given that by the Western world to work with

00:51:40.920 because that's supposed to be how we are

00:51:44.380 in order to decolonize and so to decolonize our language.

00:51:49.340 And yet when we leave that formula alone,

00:51:51.600 it comes out to where the simple complex heart rendering respect that that little

00:51:58.620 little chimpanzee was giving to the sun by understanding the whole transition the

00:52:05.100 evolution the reciprocity of what we're born with you see so i think that original intuition that

00:52:13.340 i talked about is there within all of us it's not some mental construct it's not mental justice

00:52:20.300 It's its original intuition.

00:52:22.100 And what does that mean?

00:52:23.960 You know, maybe it's there.

00:52:25.660 Maybe we see it somewhere.

00:52:27.220 It's not a gut feeling.

00:52:28.360 It's not by chance.

00:52:30.040 It's something that you can actually understand and live and feel.

00:52:35.240 So I don't think we understand the energies.

00:52:37.560 I don't think we understand the medicines that are given to us each and every second.

00:52:42.320 And it's usually one of the ways that we're given the medicine to understand is to understand that every moment is innocent.

00:52:52.800 Every moment is innocent.

00:52:54.760 And that, you can say it clears the slate, but it's true.

00:52:59.380 No matter if you're a human being that's doing wrong things, you're still on every moment that is innocent.

00:53:06.440 And that is what we all can understand that every, can I say, every virus is innocent also. Is compassion, does compassion have a choice? You see, so we can understand Native peoples as much as this educational process allows us to.

00:53:27.460 because this educational process as an Indigenous person

00:53:31.040 is always telling us what we can and cannot do, you see,

00:53:35.720 and how we shouldn't say that because we're defaulted

00:53:39.980 to getting along with the Western society

00:53:42.720 or defaulted to saying the things that they like

00:53:45.900 so that we can survive in it.

00:53:49.160 So there's no relationship in that.

00:53:50.700 There's only this given reward, this cause and effect society of struggle.

00:53:56.900 of survival yeah yeah and as we begin to close this conversation i'm thinking about the importance

00:54:08.160 of remaining humble during these times and our conversation today reminds me of the tremendous

00:54:13.380 importance of remaining humble seeking questions over answers and allowing ourselves to be

00:54:19.140 vulnerable with the complex and unknown how do you think humility can foster us into embodying

00:54:26.460 different ways of being on this earth isn't it kind of ironic how we can't think humility

00:54:33.940 how we cannot think humbleness we can be that but we have to lose the thoughts that are

00:54:42.820 constructed for us or this is humbled humility this is humbleness to be clear with this and

00:54:48.680 is that in a way we say umshila or umshika or in a way being humble or pitiful because look at us

00:54:59.240 as a species we have to take other things to keep us here we have to kill other things to be here

00:55:07.520 and all that is done with arrogance oh we you know we we're causing we we do this and we take

00:55:15.460 that and we'll be good we're we're supreme to the earth and so right now i think the the human

00:55:22.620 peoples are going through a sense of humility um because we we base this lack of society we're

00:55:34.380 talking the lacking of we're talking you know against we're talking that we don't know how to

00:55:41.640 be abundant anymore because that's been taken away from us. But no one knows how to be humble.

00:55:47.900 And so humbleness to us is taught to us through the animal world, so to speak. And they are so

00:55:54.180 respectful of each other that they don't want to overstep their bounds, yet they do. And when they

00:56:00.580 do, the earth calls them back. Not call, but calls them back. In other words, their domination

00:56:07.780 thinking will be called we will be culled back and i think that's what's going on but

00:56:14.980 to understand humility the importance of it is to know that it's the most powerful place

00:56:23.720 anyone can be you understand the feeling of of what it is to be with other beings when you're

00:56:32.200 humble because you're not being dominant you're not being below you're just being with

00:56:39.780 and giving that up rather than surrendering and knowing that being humble is what a baby is when

00:56:50.240 they're born what a mother is when she bears children what a father is when they see that

00:56:56.620 child then you see that so-called miracle but it's not a miracle it's part of what we are

00:57:02.280 the humanness of it humility is the being part of the human and are there human beings anymore

00:57:10.540 seems like there are a lot of technical humans according to certain rules and regulations and

00:57:16.980 religions and sciences. But that's the part of being human is humility. It doesn't mean

00:57:27.920 shame. We should never think it means shame. It should mean that, yes, we can be humble by

00:57:35.300 addressing our grief. We can be humble by addressing that. Maybe we've done a little

00:57:40.740 too much with technology we made that our savior maybe we've done a lot of things that we should

00:57:48.260 have never done but that's that's the wish list and and i think part of this is understanding

00:57:55.120 the humbleness that you need the earth and i i always want to understand like okay if i need

00:58:03.720 the earth does the earth need me you know and that seems to be the question that we're not asking

00:58:12.480 does the earth need us you know the other way around is that we need the earth and we kind of

00:58:19.240 get stuck with that thought but the humbleness is that wow does the earth need us yeah i think i'll

00:58:26.860 leave it right there. Thank you for that. And before we say goodbye, I am, and I think this

00:58:37.200 really connects back to the humbleness, but I'm going back to the beginning of our conversation

00:58:42.080 and the quote that basically we can't save the whales and the same thought process around what

00:58:49.760 is it to steward land or save land or protect the land and i'm fumbling a bit because i think

00:59:01.240 emotionally i feel like let's just take the whales for instance i feel this enormous amount of

00:59:09.820 connection responsibility grief around how they're faring which isn't good i mean they

00:59:17.060 their populations are declining so quickly and so you know I don't know what I'm asking but maybe

00:59:23.960 something around like what do we do for those of us who feel this desire to protect and defend as

00:59:31.800 if these creatures are our kin because I think about all the resource extraction projects the

00:59:38.400 mining the logging the damming the fish farms so on and so forth how do we reckon with these threats

00:59:48.180 without stepping into savior mentality but still being in right relationship and i know that there's

00:59:57.420 no prescription to it and maybe my western mind is getting in the way right now of of wanting so

01:00:03.000 badly to cling on to something but if there's any words you have for the those of us who are

01:00:11.060 desiring so badly to be of service to the protection of our more than human kin and

01:00:20.300 honestly every everyone that's dealing with the complexity of this time um yeah i wonder

01:00:27.120 what you think of being in right relationship and being in service to this time in a good way?

01:00:34.620 Oh, wow. Thank you. That's a great question. Again, that you know, the way we understand

01:00:43.480 earth is through a language. And this language that we speak is a foundation of this civilization.

01:00:49.180 So you know that it is the first weapon drawn in a conflict. So I think the savior mentality

01:00:55.520 is part of that conflict.

01:00:57.720 We are in a conflict with ourselves,

01:00:59.820 whether we should, is this the right thing to do?

01:01:02.740 And I think your passion or your empathy for the earth

01:01:06.620 is just the beginning of your recognizing

01:01:09.860 indigeneity within yourself.

01:01:12.960 And once I'm in knowing this,

01:01:16.160 we begin to ponder and listen.

01:01:19.260 It's kind of like wondering why we're seeking

01:01:22.100 a final solution to exterminating ourselves or trying not to exterminate ourselves by exterminating

01:01:29.840 other life forms. So when I think about trusting earth, the Western mind that I have now, it says,

01:01:39.600 but how do I do that? How do I trust earth? That means I just have to leave her alone.

01:01:44.840 We come up with questions and our coherency is no longer there.

01:01:51.520 So we're trying to create some kind of common understanding from what we've taken away from her among this humanity of ownership.

01:02:01.560 and i think when we understand the meaning of ownership and that meaning of knowledge

01:02:07.720 it it points to believing ourselves to be its sole owner so we can save that whale for ourselves and

01:02:18.720 we feel good for doing that and you know maybe we'll get some kind of award for it but is the

01:02:24.900 whale really you know going the way it's supposed to it's like to me and this probably has a

01:02:32.940 relation to it this is how i speak but if we are going on with the technology and we're we are

01:02:41.260 killing ourselves with this technology as well as other species you know is it the fact that we have

01:02:48.540 to save the whale from our technology that is telling you to accept it so so that we can advance

01:02:54.700 and progress and mother earth has tried to get our attention with earthquakes and

01:03:00.640 you know the wind and fires and you know just on and on the floods and we have paid attention

01:03:09.260 somewhat so what we think is is in in conference with older people from back home they're saying

01:03:16.620 oh yeah technology that's the word we had to come up with and try to understand it it means

01:03:21.220 something hurts inside, right? So we're disconnected. So technology is the downfall

01:03:28.320 of all of us. Mother Earth set it up so we can, our arrogance is destroying us. So she's allowing

01:03:37.740 that, those people who are addicted to technology to basically suicide, slowly suicide our way out.

01:03:47.280 But not all of us, I can say that. But that's not the saving grace. What it is that those peoples who are still connected with the earth, still related to the earth, and living simply without owning the earth is part of that, saving the earth.

01:04:04.240 because they're watching the motion of the nurturing living, if I say that.

01:04:10.640 And so they're not saving that piece of ground.

01:04:14.840 They're acknowledging that here they are in their capacity to pay attention to the earth,

01:04:21.760 to give energy, to pray, if you will, to realize that transition,

01:04:27.380 this little piece of earth here affects that whale over there.

01:04:31.660 so we're taught to look outside of ourselves so that other peoples can give us credit

01:04:37.780 because we seek credit within this western world that we're good people and in fact the

01:04:43.840 the etymology of european really means good people the good people and so what are we doing

01:04:50.940 with that you know and when i think about okay we're going to save the whale but we're going to

01:04:58.560 save a dog we're going to save all those things that are beneficial to us right and part of that

01:05:05.940 ayana is is i could introduce this as a microtones the microtones of somebody living on with the

01:05:13.800 land and listening to the mushrooms listening to the soil listening to the earth listening to the

01:05:19.480 plants about how to how to you know so it's giving us instructions it's uploading to us all the time

01:05:29.660 in that intelligence this other way has been given us is to be benevolent and go out and save the

01:05:35.460 mighty whale you know the the beast of legend and they know how to do it themselves if we just let

01:05:42.640 them alone we just have to stop what we're doing with technology in order to save the whale

01:05:48.940 and truly get into the communication with the earth

01:05:53.020 that indigenous peoples who are still speaking 1.00

01:05:55.360 those quantum physics languages 0.99

01:05:56.960 are doing at this moment.

01:06:00.620 They're saving the whale by being themselves.

01:06:03.460 They know who they are.

01:06:04.820 They're not questioning who they are.

01:06:07.140 They are wondering, what are those people doing?

01:06:10.760 Why are they questioning who they are?

01:06:13.440 And we know who they are.

01:06:14.720 They're trying to understand what all of us humans are doing,

01:06:18.620 but yet it's not I mean excuse me it's not all humans do not think the same and when they say 0.82

01:06:25.900 it's a human thing that's not true you can say the Kogi invented the humans invented the atom bomb

01:06:32.720 but that's not true you see so we have to understand and take responsibility for what

01:06:39.780 each individual does to the earth as well as to themselves so I think we we need to take more

01:06:46.920 responsibility for who we used to be, who we are now, and who we will be. And I think that's

01:06:57.340 a simple formula there, if I could say that. And I have no idea if that answered your question,

01:07:02.120 Diana. Oh, it was great nourishment for that question. And everything that we've spoken to

01:07:12.140 has really impacted me deeply and yeah thank you so much Teokasen for taking this time

01:07:20.140 with me and all of those who will be tuning in I think this is going to really just

01:07:28.980 oh I yeah I feel a little speechless because I'm just sitting with all that we just spoke

01:07:37.080 too and it's very meaningful

01:07:39.040 thank you

01:07:40.020 thank you and I wish

01:07:42.040 a welcome for you all

01:07:44.940 is that we all

01:07:47.320 learn how to consciously

01:07:49.060 apply mystery to everything

01:07:50.520 thank you for listening to For the Wild podcast

01:07:57.440 the music you heard today was by

01:07:59.340 Harrison Foster, Pia and

01:08:01.240 Elizabeth Russo

01:08:02.240 For the Wild is created by Ayanna Young

01:08:04.980 Erica Akram, and Francesca Glaspell, with research assistance by Julia Jackson.

For The Wild - June 09, 2021

TIOKASIN GHOSTHORSE on the Power of Humility ⧸237

Episode Stats

Transcript