If Books Could Kill - December 08, 2022


A Bari Special Bonus Episode [TEASER]

The Game The Population Bomb

Episode Stats


Length

9 minutes

Words per minute

172.52

Word count

1,685

Sentence count

120

Harmful content

Misogyny

1

sentences flagged

Toxicity

10

sentences flagged

Hate speech

1

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Michael. Peter. What do you know about Substack? Uh, I know that it's where I go when I'm tired
00:00:05.480 of getting the free race science. Welcome to the first bonus episode of If Books Could Kill. 0.55
00:00:26.620 Pleasure to be here.
00:00:27.700 You know, it wasn't a given that we were going to be meeting you today.
00:00:31.520 I don't think that either of us thought that the show was going to be quite so successful.
00:00:36.500 Jesus Christ.
00:00:37.740 When we started talking about like doing this, it was like, okay, we're going to record a couple episodes and then we're going to release them and we'll get like, I don't know, maybe 10,000 downloads or something.
00:00:47.260 It's going to be a really slow build.
00:00:49.640 Yeah.
00:00:49.900 And then we released the first episode and we were like number one on iTunes within a
00:00:55.700 couple hours.
00:00:56.640 Yeah.
00:00:56.820 We thought maybe we would eventually launch a Patreon if people liked it.
00:01:00.240 Yeah.
00:01:00.380 We did not expect it to be so clear that people wanted to hear a little bit more so quickly.
00:01:05.720 Yeah.
00:01:06.060 And I certainly did not expect to be above Rachel Maddow on the Apple podcast charts.
00:01:12.280 You're idle.
00:01:12.820 You're finally surpassing the person you think of the most.
00:01:15.580 Yeah, you know you're crushing it when you're above her and, like, true crime podcasts.
00:01:20.600 Yeah, you know, if we're beating the true crimes, we made it.
00:01:25.360 All right, so obviously the premise of the show is that we, like, discuss a book in each regular episode.
00:01:32.480 And for the bonus episodes, I don't think we're trying to lock ourselves into any particular format.
00:01:38.100 But I do think it's often going to be a good opportunity to discuss op-eds and think pieces.
00:01:45.580 Yes.
00:01:46.000 The short form versions of airport book schlock.
00:01:50.240 I guess the idea is like, where are the other engines of American bedumining happening?
00:01:57.800 There's the Times op-ed pages, the Atlantic.
00:02:01.500 But I thought it would be fun to start off the beaten path in a little place called Substack.
00:02:08.100 Yeah, it's just blogs.
00:02:09.420 It's subscription blogs, right?
00:02:11.300 It's just a platform where writers can post their work.
00:02:14.040 And the only difference between it and the old school blogs is that you can subscribe to certain writers, which allows them to build a financially viable career off of it.
00:02:26.800 I should also, I guess, disclose at the top that I have a sub stack.
00:02:30.760 Conflict of interest here. Are we good to go?
00:02:33.340 But I feel weird about it. Is it OK to do things as long as you feel weird about them?
00:02:37.240 I mean, there's a sort of necessity to Substack because it's like the byproduct of a dying old
00:02:42.820 media ecosystem, right? That just like can't sustain the careers of many journalists.
00:02:48.800 And it's like, why compete for a tiny handful of positions at traditional outlets? Right.
00:02:53.900 You can go independent, in many cases, make more money and not have to worry about an editor
00:02:58.720 telling you like, hey, that's factually incorrect. Please don't write that.
00:03:02.460 That's the thing. I mean, I guess we'll get into this, but it's like Substack has now become part
00:03:06.200 of like the journalism pipeline that it used to be, you know, you'd kind of work your way up from
00:03:10.800 a local paper and then you get a job at like the national paper. And then oftentimes you'd kind of
00:03:15.040 move into the opinion section once you had gathered enough expertise from reporting.
00:03:19.660 But Substack totally turns that on its head because once you make it, there's now this extra
00:03:24.680 step where it's like, well, you leave the establishment publication and you charge
00:03:29.020 100,000 people, five bucks a month each to get your thoughts directly. And you A, earn far more
00:03:36.620 money and B, have no accountability whatsoever to like editing and fact checking standards.
00:03:41.840 There's a dynamic where a lot of people in the aughts were bloggers, rose to prominence in that
00:03:48.680 format, leveraged it to get positions at big media outlets, and now have returned to independent
00:03:55.740 blogging but this time with money right and the dynamic where many of them have left mainstream
00:04:02.400 media has given a lot of them the chance to present themselves as shunned outsiders speaking
00:04:10.380 truth to power which has attracted a certain type of journalist to the platform and perhaps 0.89
00:04:17.420 none more emblematic of the archetype than barry weiss oh fuck yeah and i'm sorry to do this to 0.95
00:04:24.800 you, Michael, but this is sort of a Barry Weiss episode and I'm springing it on you. 0.85
00:04:30.180 The funny thing is, as you were saying that, I knew you were subtweeting somebody,
00:04:33.440 but it could have been like seven specific Germanists.
00:04:36.660 That's right.
00:04:37.320 All followed exactly the same path.
00:04:40.100 I do think Barry is the funniest of the left, the mainstream media outlet and went to Substack.
00:04:46.660 And we can get into why that is true.
00:04:48.660 But first, I'll ask, how familiar are you with Barry Weiss?
00:04:51.800 Dude, I am way too familiar with Barry Weiss.
00:04:54.180 I think that she is the archetypal substacker, but I also think that she is one of the most
00:04:59.500 dangerous people on the platform because what she is doing is this like brave truth teller
00:05:05.940 shtick.
00:05:06.780 But most of the stuff that she's publishing is like really far right.
00:05:10.900 And it's not like labeled as such.
00:05:12.860 She's not as controversial of a figure as somebody like Glenn Greenwald or something
00:05:16.460 where it's like, OK, you know what you're getting into to some extent.
00:05:20.200 Barry Weiss has this institutional imprimatur that gives her a kind of credibility. 0.95
00:05:26.620 But I mean, I read her sub stack fairly frequently and it's like it's really fucking dark in there. 0.95
00:05:32.200 Yeah. And for those not familiar with her, she's a writer, most prominently a New York Times columnist between 2017 and 2020. 0.52
00:05:42.200 She worked the cancel culture beat.
00:05:44.940 Somebody's got to talk about the campuses.
00:05:46.240 Yeah. Writing about how liberals on college campuses were becoming authoritarians. You know, they're the real authoritarians. They're suppressing free speech and so forth.
00:05:53.940 History's borne that out.
00:05:54.820 And there's a little bit of irony and trivia. Any real Barry Weisshead knows as an undergrad at Columbia in the mid aughts, she led a much reported on campaign against professors who she felt opposed Israel and labeled them racist and was like clearly angling to get them fired.
00:06:13.580 The stuff that she is publicly complaining about and has built a career complaining about is stuff that she directly engaged in when she was in college.
00:06:22.780 Yeah. I mean, it's almost as if you're implying that nobody has a content neutral belief about quote unquote cancellations. And it's actually the content of the speech that people think should or should not be punished. Interesting. I wonder where you're going with this.
00:06:37.040 Her Substack is not just her writing. 0.54
00:06:38.660 She treats it like a sort of an outlet where she'll host other writers.
00:06:43.480 I do want to read off a few examples of the top pieces from the last couple of years on
00:06:48.300 her Substack.
00:06:49.180 Oh.
00:06:49.640 Yesterday, I was Levi's brand president.
00:06:52.200 I quit so I could be free.
00:06:55.340 I have read this one so many times.
00:06:58.380 He was a world-renowned cancer researcher.
00:07:00.700 Now he's collecting unemployment.
00:07:02.060 Another classic cancellation story that I'm sure is not any more complicated upon further
00:07:08.940 investigation. Clear cut cancellation. I refuse to stand by while my students are indoctrinated.
00:07:15.060 Nice. My university sacrificed ideas for ideology. So today I quit. Hell yeah. I'm
00:07:20.600 a public school teacher. The kids aren't all right. I'm noticing a theme, Peter. These are
00:07:26.480 the same fucking pieces over and over again. And these are like the most popular in the history 0.99
00:07:30.920 of her sub stack so i've chosen a couple of uh select entries what was your criteria for choosing
00:07:38.820 these before we dive in i sort of just rolled through it and at first i was like you know i'm
00:07:43.280 just gonna talk about the dumbest stuff i can find but that was overwhelming yeah it's incredible
00:07:48.360 i tried to pick what i thought were emblematic pieces that talked about themes that the sub 0.94
00:07:56.640 stack constantly hits on okay the first one the title of the piece is free bird on elon musk and
00:08:05.280 twitter okay by walter kern oh oh who i like yeah well you're gonna put that in the past tense soon
00:08:13.700 he wrote the novel up in the air yes i always sort of appreciated him because he's like a left-wing
00:08:19.540 dude who lives in montana he's somebody with actual on the ground experience he's not parachuting in
00:08:24.080 And I always appreciated that. But then a lot of these like rural whisperer people have become reactionary centrists over the last couple of years. And I'm afraid that's what you're about to tell me.
00:08:36.360 That's basically what's happened. And this is a classic reactionary centrist tick where they're like, look, I'm actually quite a liberal. And they list off like 10 issues where they're a liberal, but they never talk about those issues. They only talk about the issues where they're conservative. And it's like.
00:08:51.900 Yeah. And these causes that you never promote. It's like these private beliefs that like, oh, I believe in climate change.
00:08:57.340 It's like, well, have you ever written about it? Right. You're not advancing these causes in any material way.
00:09:01.380 And you are advancing the cause of like kids these days bullshit. 0.78
00:09:05.400 So he writes this on November 2nd. So right after Elon Musk took over. 0.97
00:09:12.880 But before all of like the related drama starts to unfold, he, of course, is a professional writer, which makes some of the writing,
00:09:21.200 which is quite bad
00:09:22.720 even more embarrassing
00:09:23.920 the opening line is
00:09:25.700 let me tell you
00:09:26.680 about my strange time
00:09:27.660 on Twitter
00:09:28.120 a so-called
00:09:29.280 social media platform
00:09:30.680 of the early
00:09:31.920 21st century
00:09:33.040 so-called
00:09:34.040 social media platform
00:09:35.100 is in quotes
00:09:35.820 he lays out
00:09:37.080 a couple of experiences
00:09:37.880 that he claims
00:09:38.800 to have had on Twitter
00:09:39.700 that shaped his perception
00:09:41.560 of the platform
00:09:42.800 and I'm gonna send you
00:09:44.760 the first one