In Bed With The Right - March 03, 2026


Episode 124 -- Wuthering Heights

Topics
Episode 123 [PATREON PREVIEW] -- The Botstein Files Episode 126 -- Bari Weiss, Part 1

Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 6 minutes

Words per minute

171.66

Word count

11,387

Sentence count

720

Harmful content

Misogyny

31

sentences flagged

Toxicity

88

sentences flagged

Hate speech

40

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
00:00:00.000 It was like when you're watching a movie with your parents and a really intense sex scene comes on.
00:00:04.700 It was not my favorite way to spend time with Adrian, to be honest with you.
00:00:10.560 Now I find out.
00:00:12.420 So I must admit, I didn't feel that way.
00:00:14.760 And I think this difference might be kind of telling.
00:00:17.700 I was worried going into it, but I was like, it's not a sexy movie.
00:00:22.620 It's a horny movie, but mostly it's just a gooey movie.
00:00:25.240 I was like, okay. 1.00
00:00:25.880 Spoken like a gay man, Adrian Daub. 1.00
00:00:27.520 It's just like, it's just a lot of goo. 1.00
00:00:29.900 I'm like, like the first five seconds, I'm like, oh, ooh.
00:00:33.700 Then I was like, yeah, okay.
00:00:34.840 Like, it's just very, it's sticky.
00:00:37.220 There are a lot of sticky surfaces.
00:00:39.120 It has a kind of juvenile fun with this stuff,
00:00:42.660 but ultimately it's only skin deep.
00:00:45.380 She thinks she's updating the material, right?
00:00:47.520 It's not your mom and pop's, you know, Wuthering Heights. 0.98
00:00:49.840 Like the original Wuthering Heights is far more fucked up than this. 1.00
00:00:52.920 Oh, if you want to be a freak, like reveling in your own gross horniness and emphasizing the darkness of desire, bring back the necrophilia, you coward. 1.00
00:01:02.060 Exactly, right? 0.99
00:01:02.620 Like he digs up her corpse to, quote unquote, embrace it.
00:01:05.680 Yes.
00:01:06.180 Like Emily goes there.
00:01:07.600 Yeah, and Fennell does not.
00:01:08.980 Fennell's goo is essentially ersatz goo.
00:01:12.100 It's just posy goo.
00:01:19.580 Hello, I'm Adrienne Daw.
00:01:21.180 And I'm Moira Doddigan.
00:01:22.140 Whether we like it or not, we're in bed with the right.
00:01:26.240 So, Adrian, today we are talking about the movie, the book, the phenomenon, the cultural experience that is Wuthering Heights.
00:01:39.000 That's right. Hot of the presses. If we don't boost this book from 1847, no one's going to read it.
00:01:43.980 so adrian you and i took a trip down to a movie theater here in the san francisco mission
00:01:52.280 to see the new adaptation of wuthering heights by emerald fennel fennel so i think it's fennel
00:01:59.760 but you should just keep saying fennel and i'll keep saying fennel and one way or the other
00:02:05.460 someone's gonna have egg on their face that's a callback guys uh if you have seen the movie
00:02:11.120 The eggs play an oddly prominent role.
00:02:13.220 Yeah.
00:02:13.760 So Emerald Fennell is a filmmaker who makes these soap opera-y, like kind of trashy, but with a lot of pretensions, films that dramatize sexual politics, right?
00:02:27.360 So she's a really interesting filmmaker for our purposes, not because she's an especially good one.
00:02:32.700 I don't think she is.
00:02:34.460 This reminded me of an insight you had, Adrienne, about the horror genre back when we did our Powers of Horror film episodes for Halloween.
00:02:42.700 It's like the horror director is operating often kind of based on instinct.
00:02:47.520 And in so doing with the sort of like unconscious or like slippages in their filmmaking often sort of reveals something interesting that they maybe didn't intend to.
00:02:55.900 I think Emerald Fennell works a little bit of a similar way.
00:02:59.580 She sort of thinks she's doing one project and in the process reveals something different about contemporary gender relations and sexual politics than she perhaps expected to.
00:03:10.740 And I'm really interested in discussing Wuthering Heights with you from that perspective.
00:03:16.300 Yeah. So a little bit more about Fennell.
00:03:18.360 She's an actress.
00:03:20.100 You might have seen her as Camilla Parker Bowles on The Crown.
00:03:23.480 She was excellent as Camilla on The Crown, I have to say.
00:03:25.840 She's very, very good.
00:03:26.800 Yeah. 0.87
00:03:27.600 She was in Call of the Midwife.
00:03:29.980 And otherwise, and this is kind of interesting, I think, for the purposes of this movie,
00:03:33.560 she sort of cut her teeth as an actor, I would say, in period pieces.
00:03:37.280 And then when she started directing, she moved away from that.
00:03:41.760 At least the two movies that she's directed, they have a period piece feel to them in moments.
00:03:46.760 They're not set necessarily in the here and now recognizably.
00:03:50.360 But, like, people have cell phones, I guess is what it is.
00:03:52.920 Those two movies would be Promising Young Woman from 2020 and Saltburn from 2023.
00:04:00.440 Promising Young Woman being sort of like a post-Me Too rape revenge fantasy with Carey Mulligan, I believe, as the central character.
00:04:09.720 And then Saltburn is sort of a riff on the talented Mr. Ripley about sort of like class envy and sexual desire sort of mixing together in this country estate where a bunch of characters have gathered for a holiday. 0.96
00:04:23.440 Saltburn is basically, as I recall, the talented Mr. Ripley reimagined, and I use that term very, very broadly, as a eeling comedy about a screwy, rich, degenerate family and with more dongs. 0.51
00:04:39.080 And that's sort of similar to the way that Fennell treated her source material in this latest venture, Wuthering Heights, right? It is Wuthering Heights, the 1847 Emily Bronte novel that is about class and race and domestic violence and the commodification of women and like authenticity. And my pet theory is that Wuthering Heights is actually a book about real estate.
00:05:04.560 Yeah. And Emerald Fennell reimagines it as a story about the transgressive power of sexual desire and the force of sexual desire and makes it a very, very different story.
00:05:18.380 And the sort of looseness of the approach to the source material is something that she like ultimately seems to embrace and then sort of disavow a little bit over the course of this adaptation.
00:05:29.680 And so I think the relationship between Emerald Feminine's Wuthering Heights and Emily Bronte's Wuthering Heights, which are very different texts, is something that we're going to have to dig into and explore a little bit.
00:05:39.980 Because what she thinks she's doing with this book or to this book is something I'm really interested in discussing with you, Adrian.
00:05:48.260 Yeah, and so that does mean that we have to give a little bit of synopsis of a book.
00:05:53.380 I'm guessing a lot of you will have read, so bear with us.
00:05:55.680 I have never taught this book, I come to it entirely as a person who's read it, I think, three times in my life, and I've really loved it each time. There are people who are much more devoted to this book and who obviously will know a lot more than me.
00:06:07.360 But I do think it's important to sort of keep in mind, A, that what Fennell is doing is an interpretation of Withering Heights, and B, that any adaptation of Withering Heights kind of has to be an interpretation of Withering Heights, because that book resists filmic adaptation, I think, in a pretty interesting set of ways.
00:06:29.680 Like, to adapt Withering Heights is to kind of give it a twist, because you have to.
00:06:34.740 So, Wuthering Heights was published by Emily Bonte in 1847 under the pseudonym Alice Bell, under which I think she published all her work.
00:06:44.040 Which was just some poems and then this novel.
00:06:47.840 She died very young at, I believe, 31 years old.
00:06:51.340 Yeah, she was born in 1818, died in 1848.
00:06:55.020 And then her sister edited a second edition of the novel.
00:06:59.840 So, there's an 1847 version and then there's an 1850 version of the novel.
00:07:04.740 Emily Bronte is the sister to Anne Bronte, famous for Agnes Grey and the tenant of Wildfell Hall.
00:07:12.120 Anne Charlotte Bronte, famous for Jane Eyre.
00:07:14.260 And also her brother, Branwell Bronte, famous for Jack Squat.
00:07:19.160 So I might just like briefly gloss the Brontes, who are these famous three sisters
00:07:24.820 who grew up really kind of in the middle of nowhere in this parsonage in Yorkshire,
00:07:31.000 sort of northern rural England, which is a very beautiful and very like sparse and severe part of the UK.
00:07:38.880 Have you been to High Worth, Parsonage?
00:07:40.560 I know. I wanted to. I want to really, really ballet, but I've never made it.
00:07:44.520 It's beautiful, but it is.
00:07:46.380 It's the middle of nowhere. It's absolutely, it's remote, it's isolated.
00:07:50.140 And it's not like whatever Treadwife fantasy of a rural life is like.
00:07:55.420 It's a really severe landscape. It's rocky. It's difficult to farm there.
00:08:00.240 And it's really, really very windy. Right. So there's also not a lot of trees. It is a sparse, craggly, remote and like empty landscape where these girls grew up and they had a father who was pretty severe.
00:08:16.720 Their mother died after having like, you know, seven children in 10 years, quite young.
00:08:22.040 They had two older sisters who also died very young.
00:08:25.800 They got sick at boarding school and died.
00:08:27.800 And all of the family's hopes were put in their one brother, Branwell, who was supposed to take all their savings and go to London and enroll in art school and become this famous painter.
00:08:39.400 And Branwell very famously took all that money, went to London, realized immediately that his ambitions were not matched by his talents, that he was not going to make it as an artist.
00:08:51.800 He has this great sort of denial breakdown period where he gambles a lot of the family's money away and drinks it.
00:08:59.780 And then he comes home in shame, completely having tarnished all the hopes of the family and sets about, you know, dying very young, I believe, at 31 of, I believe, an infection like tuberculosis.
00:09:14.240 Or is he the one who died burning in his bed because he was smoking in bed?
00:09:18.040 That was also one of them.
00:09:19.200 I don't remember, but I think the oldest Bronte to die...
00:09:21.960 39, Charlotte.
00:09:23.360 Charlotte, right? Yeah.
00:09:24.400 Yeah, she makes it to 39.
00:09:25.960 The rest all die younger. 0.95
00:09:27.920 So, like, you have these girls who got no prospects whatsoever.
00:09:32.480 I think probably the best biographical treatment of this aspect of their lives,
00:09:36.540 like the Brontes as just sort of these, you know, economically bereft, 0.94
00:09:41.520 like unmarriageable intellectual weirdos from nowhere,
00:09:45.440 is Elizabeth Hardwick's essay on the Brontes.
00:09:48.040 Yeah.
00:09:48.180 I think it's really excellent.
00:09:49.660 Oh, I know Elizabeth Hardwick's essay on the Brontes.
00:09:51.820 Are you kidding me?
00:09:53.500 That's why I reread it the most recent time, because I read the Hardwick essays.
00:09:56.700 Oh, really?
00:09:57.260 Yeah.
00:09:57.800 It's excellent.
00:09:58.320 Everybody should read it.
00:09:59.340 The New York Review put out a collection of her essays that they called Seduction and Betrayal,
00:10:02.940 which is particularly her essays that dwell on literature and gender,
00:10:06.400 and like literature and the status of women.
00:10:07.900 Hardwick, not a feminist, I think you could really say, 0.94
00:10:10.920 but somebody who thinks critically about the status of women
00:10:13.940 and how it emerges in these like 19th century novels.
00:10:18.500 And, you know, you have Charlotte and Anne
00:10:21.620 who are writing what I think are like
00:10:23.180 much more conventional proto-Victorian novels
00:10:25.620 about growing up,
00:10:27.780 about the transformation of a heroine
00:10:32.120 from a sort of like deprived creature
00:10:35.640 that like takes solace and imagination
00:10:37.460 into somebody who can exist in the real world
00:10:39.940 and enters into that real world via marriage, right?
00:10:42.120 Like, this is classically the plot of her sister Charlotte's most famous novel, Jane Eyre, right?
00:10:47.620 Emily is weirder.
00:10:49.420 Emily is depicted in the biographical sketches we have of these women.
00:10:55.120 And I think probably the best one comes from Charlotte Bronte's introduction to that 1850 reissue of Wuthering Heights. 0.78
00:11:02.560 Emily has this kind of unfeminine severity to her. 0.78
00:11:09.240 She is a darker creature. 0.95
00:11:10.840 She was kind of more allied with Branwell. She took his death really hard. She has this sort of Hardwick calls it a hardness that amounts ultimately to withdrawal. Right. 0.80
00:11:23.640 So like Charlotte and Anne are like daydreaming about, you know, getting rescued by a man and married. Right. This is not to depict them as silly women who are not intellectually serious because they were.
00:11:35.020 But they had this sort of recourse to more conventional feminine desires. 0.99
00:11:41.080 And Emily doesn't have that.
00:11:42.700 It's impossible to think the way we think about, like, with Emily Dickinson, of Emily Bronte, like, having a boyfriend, you know?
00:11:50.000 It's impossible to imagine Emily ever doing what Charlotte did, which was, like, going off to be a governess to this family in Belgium and, like, immediately becoming so, like, horny and psychologically obsessed with the father that she, like, has to get sent home, right?
00:12:03.880 Like, Emily is sort of outside of heterosexuality because she's outside of womanhood. 0.99
00:12:08.860 She's too mean. 1.00
00:12:11.040 She's too pragmatic. 0.99
00:12:12.780 She's too comfortable with, like, human evil. 0.99
00:12:17.380 Yeah.
00:12:17.780 And so what Charlotte says in her introduction to that 1850 edition of Wuthering Heights is that, like, look, my sister made a portrait of herself in Heathcliff.
00:12:28.620 And she's also like, I'm not really sure that that was a wise thing to create.
00:12:34.880 She almost doesn't recommend the book.
00:12:37.180 She's like, I don't think you can like say that it is advisable to invent a character like Keith Cliff, one half of the central dyad of Wuthering Heights.
00:12:48.920 But it is something that only my sister could have made. 0.66
00:12:52.500 And she compares it to one of these like rocky outcroppings on the moors where they grew up.
00:12:56.800 that's just sort of like weathered and giant and hard and unloving, you know, sort of like
00:13:02.580 unforgiving. So why don't you take us briefly, Adrian, through the insane plot of Emily Bronte's
00:13:11.600 Wuthering Heights, and then maybe we can get into the quite different plot of Emerald Fennell's
00:13:15.840 Wuthering Heights. Yeah, and maybe I'll talk briefly about different ways in which different
00:13:19.840 adaptations have wrangled with the plot, because I think that sort of throws a spotlight on the
00:13:24.000 choices that Fennell makes here. So, Wuthering Heights. And my apologies to all my colleagues
00:13:30.540 in English departments who are now having to listen to this. I'm doing the best I can.
00:13:34.140 If you haven't read Wuthering Heights, by the way, if you haven't had the pleasure of actually
00:13:37.700 reading Emily Bronte's Wuthering Heights, like, don't listen to us. Go read that book because
00:13:42.100 it's fucking amazing. Like, it's a pleasure and it's propulsive and it's weird and you won't be 0.99
00:13:48.640 able to put it down. Yeah. So although it is a novel of the early Victorian era, it's not set
00:13:54.360 in the Victorian era. I believe the opening takes place in 1801 with our first narrator,
00:14:01.280 a Mr. Lockwood, becoming a tenant at Thrushcross Grange, which is somewhere in the Yorkshire
00:14:06.820 Moors. And his landlord is Heathcliff, who is just off-putting as shit. The entire place is just 0.99
00:14:13.840 weird in ways that sort of feel borrowed from gothic fiction like all the servants are
00:14:20.120 maniacal everyone's emoting all over the place it's just it's a messy place in ways that feel
00:14:26.640 very gothic and basically he's trying to figure out what the hell is happening over there what
00:14:32.100 kind of ship are they running long story short his servant Nellie Dean turns out to have a
00:14:39.160 connection to that story. Lockwood goes to meet his landlord and then has a real weird time
00:14:46.400 and then goes back across the moor to the house that he's rented. And it's like, God, it's fucked 0.99
00:14:52.440 up over there. And Nellie is like, oh, I know these people. I used to work for them. Let me 0.99
00:14:57.460 give you all of the gossip. Yeah. Most of the novel is basically her gossip. It takes place
00:15:04.000 about 30 years, I think, sometime in the 1770s. There's a family. It used to be wealthier than
00:15:10.960 it is now. It has fallen on hard times. It's living in this estate called Wuthering Heights,
00:15:17.120 and it's a daughter and a son. And one day, the head of the household brings in this boy that
00:15:27.140 he's picked up in Liverpool, or where is he? In Liverpool, which is a port town. Yeah.
00:15:32.420 Yeah. So there's this boy who is described throughout the novel as, and this is something we're going to have to come back to when we talk about Fennell's version of this story, as somehow less than white. There's a great book I read a couple of years ago about Shakespeare's white others. It's not clear whether he's not white or he's just not white in the way that like a mid-18th century Briton would recognize, but there's something a little different about him.
00:15:58.400 The concept of whiteness as we understand it is not exactly applicable to the early 19th century, right?
00:16:03.760 This is something that like is getting mediated through different historical conditions. 0.52
00:16:08.160 So white is a capacious category to us and would have been perhaps a little less so to them.
00:16:15.740 But they refer to him as like kind of Asian, right?
00:16:20.200 They're like you're a gypsy is a lot of what they say. 0.99
00:16:22.880 Yeah. So like indicating that he is some sort of, you know, maybe Roma extraction. There's one conversation that Nellie has with him at one point that she recounts to Lockwood where she was like, I mean, you're obviously Chinese or Indian or something, which is not precise enough to give you a lot of confidence in what this like Yorkshire maid understands about the Orient.
00:16:48.560 but there's also you know like people have made scholarly cases that he was actually just like
00:16:53.100 Irish there's there's a lot of debate over this question but one of the big questions that
00:16:58.860 everybody who has to make an adaptation of Wuthering Heights has to answer is how are you
00:17:04.080 going to cast Heathcliff right yeah because he has to be an avatar of this sort of hard
00:17:10.220 kind of wild, violent force in the character's lives.
00:17:16.120 And that is in the Emily Bronte version
00:17:19.100 sort of mediated through his race.
00:17:21.960 Yeah. 0.66
00:17:22.280 This way where he's not just non-white. 1.00
00:17:24.620 He is by being non-white 0.86
00:17:26.120 also sort of like a symbol of wildness 0.97
00:17:28.380 in this way that we would, I think,
00:17:29.840 like fairly describe as a little racist, right?
00:17:32.700 Yeah.
00:17:32.920 But then like whitewashing that figure
00:17:34.500 has its own exclusionary implications.
00:17:37.940 It's a difficult one.
00:17:39.360 Yeah. And so Mr. Earnshaw brings this kid back. Initially, Catherine Earnshaw is horrified by this creature that he brings in. And her brother Hindley is immediately antagonistic towards him.
00:17:55.320 Well, Earnshaw sort of, as he grows older, becomes more and more distant from his own children and starts making Heathcliff, the boy he picked up, sort of his favorite, which has disastrous consequences.
00:18:06.920 Because basically, Kathy really sort of starts liking him and they sort of form this very codependent dyad, I guess, while Hindley is angry at this interloper.
00:18:17.960 And once his father fades away and dies, becomes absolutely sadistic in treating Heathcliff.
00:18:24.180 Really, really difficult descriptions of that.
00:18:26.880 Heathcliff, like, has a status in this family where he's an outsider but treated as an equal.
00:18:32.040 And then after the father dies, he's very much not treated as an equal.
00:18:36.040 They make him sleep in the barn.
00:18:37.620 He's relegated to the status of a servant.
00:18:39.240 And as you alluded to, Adrian Heathcliff is subjected to a lot of violence by Kathy's older brother.
00:18:47.440 And Kathy, meanwhile, is growing into adulthood as the daughter of a poor but noble family.
00:18:56.440 And she winds up staying for an extended period of time at the home of the neighbors.
00:19:05.940 across the moor.
00:19:07.740 So the Linton's moving to Thrushcross Grange,
00:19:09.920 which is hard to say, but easy to read,
00:19:11.820 right across the way, basically,
00:19:13.720 the place that our narrator, Mr. Lockwood, is living at.
00:19:18.700 And they're sort of conventional and nice
00:19:21.960 in all the ways that the Earnshaw clan,
00:19:24.660 with every passing year,
00:19:26.080 seems to be less than this capable of, right?
00:19:28.000 It's almost a sitcom setup of like the Addams family
00:19:31.860 and then next door, the all-American family. 0.94
00:19:34.540 The Lintons just seem like totally decent people who have no idea about the freight train of gothic fucked upness that is about to collide with them. 0.93
00:19:42.480 Yeah, they're these like well-adjusted, unsuspecting normies. 0.88
00:19:46.780 Yeah, yeah. 0.99
00:19:47.500 And they get this fucked up family sort of inflicted on them. 0.96
00:19:52.220 Yeah, Kathy, for a variety of reasons, is interested in and eventually accepts a proposal from Edgar Linton. 0.98
00:19:58.280 And Heathcliff is outraged by this and leaves.
00:20:01.800 only to return years later mysteriously rich and with revenge in his heart
00:20:07.520 and takes Isabella Linton, Edgar's little sister, as the way to exact his revenge.
00:20:13.040 Right. And that relationship between Isabella Linton and Heathcliff is brutal in a way that doesn't just match
00:20:23.200 but really eclipses what Heathcliff went through as a child, right?
00:20:28.360 He kidnaps her in this, like, very, like, dubiously consensual marriage.
00:20:34.260 He kills her dog.
00:20:35.480 He, like, takes her little Pomeranian and hangs it from a fence post as he's, like, sort of spiriting her away from her brother's house.
00:20:43.620 And then Emily Bronte is quite explicit. 0.96
00:20:46.440 He beats and rapes her constantly. 0.94
00:20:48.680 And she is in this state of absolute distress and sort of falls apart. 0.98
00:20:56.260 and eventually gives birth to his child and also runs away.
00:21:02.860 As he's sort of revenging himself upon Kathy 0.98
00:21:05.880 by essentially abusing and raping this absolute bystander, 0.97
00:21:11.920 Kathy falls ill and dies. 0.98
00:21:13.860 It's about, what is it, it feels like halfway.
00:21:15.560 Like you're definitely nowhere near the end when she dies.
00:21:18.300 The novel is shaped like the letter A.
00:21:20.420 You ascend in action up until the death of Kathy.
00:21:24.620 everything is leading up until Kathy's death and then the second half of the novel everything is
00:21:29.280 consequence of Kathy's death right so the relationship between Heathcliff and Kathy
00:21:34.280 is really only the first half of the book and they're never exactly a couple although like
00:21:39.380 Emily Bronte does imply pretty strongly that they're doing it but they never like really
00:21:44.380 managed to be together in a fulsome way because Kathy is drawn by the allure of maturity and
00:21:51.440 functionality and class away from what Heathcliff understands as the more authentic sort of like
00:21:57.760 force of their attraction yeah but also like not just their attraction like their attraction is a
00:22:04.020 byproduct of their like allergy to convention right their connection with each other is about
00:22:11.480 rejecting the civilized world and sort of like the outside world and so she transcends into
00:22:16.940 you know civilized public life and abandons him and he sort of like takes his vengeance on her
00:22:25.260 and she gives birth to Edgar Lynn's child a daughter who is called very confusingly also
00:22:31.780 Kathy little Kathy and then probably dies from complications of childbirth yeah well you said
00:22:37.580 their relationship doesn't last but of course the rest of the book is taken up with their posthumous
00:22:42.040 relationship, right? Basically, her haunting of him. Well, you forget that he fucking digs up her
00:22:49.780 corpse. And her actual corpse. And Mr. Lockwood sees in his first stay at Wuthering Heights, 0.99
00:22:58.440 Heathcliff is rushing out onto the moor, screaming for something only he can see.
00:23:03.040 Then it turns out that Heathcliff is feeling quite literally haunted by his dead soulmate.
00:23:08.200 And as the sort of second generation takes over the narrative, basically Heathcliff becomes this kind of terror that completely dominates everything.
00:23:19.720 But through him, sort of, Kathy does too.
00:23:21.960 The original Kathy Earnshaw does too.
00:23:25.100 Yeah, so Heathcliff, who had been excluded from the family and his youth, now becomes the sort of like patriarchal terrorist, right?
00:23:34.000 He rules over this family through sort of malice and violence and really like quite brutal violence.
00:23:41.660 And he brings the family home under his own possession.
00:23:44.660 He buys it.
00:23:45.620 And then he manages to finagle through really like conniving, profound cynicism, also ownership of Thrustcross Grange, right?
00:23:56.520 So now he doesn't just own the house of the Earnshaw family that initially sort of like took him in but didn't treat him as an equal.
00:24:05.440 Now he also owns this like symbolic other higher familial and class plane to which Kathy ascended by rejecting him, right?
00:24:14.820 So now he's the owner of all of it and he's treating everybody under his purview with absolute like fascistic cruelty.
00:24:22.180 Yeah.
00:24:22.220 Then it's about the second generation like sort of fighting to get out from under him.
00:24:26.520 As he descends into madness and Kathy is very much present as a ghost, right?
00:24:33.280 She is on the moors calling for him.
00:24:35.900 She is pounding at the window asking to be let in in Kate Bush's famous song.
00:24:56.520 That is dramatizing, that scene where Kathy is like banging on the window of Wuthering Heights, asking Heathcliff to let her back in, but he cannot do so because she is dead.
00:25:05.880 And this sort of like irreconcilable loss is visited not just on the central couple, but like becomes the defining tragedy of all these other people's lives, even though they're just like merely collateral damage to these like damaged people who have been very cruel to each other.
00:25:21.000 And so the second half of the novel really is just a constellation of tensions, basically, of people sort of grinding each other down. And like, it's just, yeah, hell is other people or hell is family, basically. But then we do have sort of this coda where we get back to Mr. Lockwood. Mr. Lockwood goes away for a while and then comes back and then gets updated on everything having resolved, which has the effect that Nellie's narration really never gets resolved.
00:25:46.520 So at the center of Wuthering Heights,
00:25:48.400 there really is this kind of long stretch
00:25:51.700 where people are being awful to each other,
00:25:55.100 mostly Heathcliff, but not just Heathcliff,
00:25:57.320 but nothing much happens, right?
00:25:59.080 Nothing much changes.
00:26:00.500 And that is why in adapting this book,
00:26:03.700 the question is like,
00:26:04.360 what do you do with that second half?
00:26:06.500 The first half is the problem
00:26:07.700 that you are kind of telling a love story
00:26:09.380 of which no narrator ever tells us.
00:26:12.080 There's several narrators in this book.
00:26:13.140 No one ever says like, oh, they totally did it.
00:26:15.080 As you say, it's heavily implied, but that's about it.
00:26:18.200 And then the second half, it's just people making each other miserable in these like
00:26:22.660 sometimes quotidian, sometimes like outré kind of conguignol ways, but where again,
00:26:29.360 like not much happens.
00:26:31.140 And as people have been adapting this book, and they have been for a while, that second
00:26:36.600 generation, I think, becomes the real problem in terms of adaptation.
00:26:40.160 I looked through a bunch of adaptations because I was interested in how they resolve this because I wasn't satisfied with Fennell, who, spoiler alert, cuts off at Kathy's death. It ends on Kathy's deathbed. And we'll talk about why we think that that's probably a bad idea. But I was like, well, how have others done this?
00:26:58.120 So there appears to be a 1920 version of Withering Heights, but I wasn't able to find that. There's a very famous and Oscar-winning 1939 American adaptation starring Merle Oberon and Laurence Olivier, directed by William Wyler. I watched it. It's on YouTube. It keeps most of the frame narrative, though its luck would, is just a traveler who happens by Withering Heights.
00:27:21.380 like what the fuck is going on 0.88
00:27:22.440 which I think actually kind of works 0.98
00:27:23.700 it's like
00:27:24.160 he doesn't have to live next door
00:27:25.620 he can just be like
00:27:26.260 y'all the vibes here
00:27:27.640 are really weird
00:27:28.500 can you enlighten me
00:27:29.660 it has some very gorgeous shots
00:27:31.740 of the Yorkshire Dales
00:27:33.480 as played by Topanga Canyon
00:27:35.340 it's altogether too sunny
00:27:37.520 you thank the lord
00:27:39.140 for location shooting
00:27:40.380 after seeing that movie
00:27:41.580 you're like
00:27:41.880 that is California sunlight
00:27:43.240 and I hate to break it to you
00:27:44.360 everybody should not be so dour
00:27:46.540 because it's just
00:27:47.400 the swaying palm trees
00:27:48.560 should really
00:27:48.960 they're not swaying palm trees
00:27:50.340 but it is very recognized, at least Southern California.
00:27:53.060 There's like five or six BBC adaptations starting in the 50s.
00:27:57.480 There have been TV adaptations into the 2020s.
00:28:00.340 There's a version with Richard Burton as Heathcliff.
00:28:03.340 Oh, weird. Okay.
00:28:05.180 There's a 1970 version with Timothy Dalton, later James Bond,
00:28:09.980 and with Julian Glover as Hindley Earnshaw,
00:28:12.400 who has a very different role in this version, much more positive.
00:28:15.740 Then there's a version with Ralph Fiennes and Juliette Binoche.
00:28:19.300 That one's pretty fun. But that adds a framing story where, and this is kind of like my favorite, they actually have a character on screen representing Emily Bronte. And guess who it is?
00:28:34.160 It's Sinead O'Connor. I've seen this one.
00:28:36.100 It's Sinead O'Connor. Like, I think that's just perfect casting. It's like, who is the most intense woman we can possibly find? 1.00
00:28:43.620 Yeah. 0.56
00:28:44.280 Like, make her represent Emily Bronte. It's perfect.
00:28:47.720 And that movie also is rare among these, that it really leans into the second half and has the, I think, pretty elegant solution of just having its famous leading lady, Juliette Binoche, play both Cathy's.
00:29:01.600 They're Cathy's, so like, why not?
00:29:04.460 Kind of works.
00:29:05.980 And it's really interesting in that it doesn't avoid the framing narrative, but actually adds another, which I always like when movies go for this.
00:29:13.200 It's like, yeah, this is complex.
00:29:14.560 Why not make it more so?
00:29:15.500 So that's a really famous one.
00:29:17.720 It wasn't very successful at the time, and I don't think the reviews were all that kind.
00:29:21.180 What I wanted to draw people's attention to is Richard Burton, Sir Lawrence Olivier, Timothy Dalton, Ralph Fiennes are some of the finest and also widest actress you can find.
00:29:31.720 And they're kind of heartthrobs, right?
00:29:34.340 These are people who would play like romantic leads.
00:29:38.160 Dalton is 10 years away from being James Bond.
00:29:40.760 Burton, you know, is Cleopatra.
00:29:43.320 These are cast as romantic leads in a role that, frankly, doesn't really warrant that, right?
00:29:51.780 This is the other structural problem with this book, that if you cast a famous dude in this role, you're kind of going to romanticize what Emily Bronte doesn't really romanticize, right?
00:30:02.500 Well, most adaptations of this book treat it as a love story.
00:30:09.080 And, you know, the most successful ones don't shy away from Heathcliff as the abuser.
00:30:15.900 I think that's pretty potent in the Juliette Binoche and Ralph Fiennes adaptation.
00:30:23.560 Kathy and Heathcliff, but particularly Heathcliff, are really, really bad people.
00:30:27.000 They're cruel. They're sarcastic. They're violent. They're manipulative. 0.90
00:30:32.500 They're inflicting a lot of pain on the people around them.
00:30:36.400 And so the effort to cast their relationship with each other as like sort of aspirational or sort of enduring or like hot is something that you find happening, I think, partly with the casting choices, right?
00:30:59.080 One thing that happens a lot is that Heathcliff is cast not just as a white guy, but kind of like a pretty white guy.
00:31:05.540 Yeah.
00:31:05.740 You know, like a guy with a kind of, I think we should talk about this when we get to the Fennell version and her choice to cast Jacob Elordi.
00:31:12.380 It's like they're cast as these sort of like feline guys.
00:31:18.340 They're like desirable, but they're not like physically imposing, right?
00:31:21.540 They're not guys whose bodies indicate a capacity for violence, right?
00:31:25.620 It's like, it's actually kind of hard.
00:31:26.620 It was hard for me watching Jacob Elordi to, like, believe him as the author of violence.
00:31:31.360 I was like, most of these chicks could snap you in half like a twig, you know?
00:31:36.300 The body of Heathcliff has to be cast in a very different way that sort of minimizes his violence for these screen adaptations.
00:31:44.060 And I think that there's sort of a reflex to making a Wuthering Heights movie fit into a romance genre convention that the source material doesn't really fit with.
00:31:55.360 And there's also some like dangerous political impulses there to sort of make abuse seem either not very serious or like kind of sexy.
00:32:05.340 So there is that.
00:32:06.480 There's also the broader formal problem, which is that we harp on the fact that we don't know whether Kathy and Heathcliff do it.
00:32:13.500 But that hides a bigger problem, which is that we only ever get other people say so about their relationship.
00:32:18.220 It's entirely seen from the outside.
00:32:19.960 and there is a way to represent that
00:32:22.040 but you don't cast Richard Burton, Ralph Fiennes
00:32:24.240 or Timothy Dalton and go for that
00:32:26.280 like then you're gonna get a lot of
00:32:28.180 very good actors playing off each other
00:32:30.280 spelling out what this relationship's about
00:32:32.560 there is something deeply unknowable
00:32:34.760 about the central dyad in this book
00:32:37.240 what's more
00:32:38.460 their love for each other
00:32:40.420 is cast as something that's probably not a good thing
00:32:43.000 like it creates unbelievable collateral damage
00:32:45.840 all the time
00:32:46.860 it ruins lives including their own
00:32:49.120 Yeah, it's described, you know, the way a murder might be described, right?
00:32:53.700 Like, it's like Rashomon, right?
00:32:55.720 In the movie theater, we thought of Gatsby and Daisy Buchanan, right?
00:32:59.300 And The Great Gatsby, where also, like, movie adaptations tend to think, like, oh, this is a story about star-crossed lovers.
00:33:05.220 Like, no, these are terrible people, and they're terrible for each other.
00:33:08.320 And what they see in each other, like, Nick Carraway is like, I don't know.
00:33:11.800 Like, honestly, they're both pretty vapid, right?
00:33:15.240 There's something like that here.
00:33:16.600 It's not that we know there's nothing, but thanks to Nellie, we don't know what there is, right?
00:33:20.800 Nellie just doesn't know.
00:33:22.420 And that's something that is really difficult to maintain once you apply the kind of romance paradigm to it.
00:33:31.000 And you don't cast Timothy Dalton, a smoldering man at the worst of times.
00:33:36.680 There were some worst of times.
00:33:39.420 And then expect, we're like, oh, we'll keep it at arm's length and we just don't know what they're up to each other and what they are to each other.
00:33:44.720 You also don't cast Margot Robbie, a woman so stereotypically hot that she literally played Barbie, you know?
00:33:51.520 Yeah.
00:33:52.100 The casting choices go both ways, right?
00:33:55.600 Even though, like, Keith Cliff is almost an avatar of evil and Kathy is sort of more ambivalent, but they're both bad people who wreak havoc.
00:34:05.800 This is a story about, like, villains, not victims, right?
00:34:09.420 People who are actively and repeatedly choosing to harm others.
00:34:13.240 yeah it's just a poor fit for the screen which doesn't mean that you can't make a movie out of
00:34:18.640 it but it doesn't mean that there are these challenges right right the fact that it's about
00:34:22.140 the central couple that is not ever really a couple where one member dies halfway through
00:34:26.480 that is very perspectival that we really don't know whom to trust right there's a chance that 0.93
00:34:31.100 like they are fine people it's just that Nellie fucking hates them possible unlikely but possible 0.94
00:34:37.020 Well, Emerald Fennell thinks so. 0.99
00:34:39.220 Yes.
00:34:39.980 And then also it's a book about, it's funny, it's a book about books.
00:34:44.680 The Wildness of Heathcliff and Cathy.
00:34:47.120 They're these feral children running around Wuthering Heights together.
00:34:50.940 And it's clearly modeled on the Bronte sisters' upbringing in the parsonage.
00:34:57.180 At the same time, they didn't run around like this.
00:35:00.280 What Bronte is doing is transposing their literary effort, which were very early and very prodigious,
00:35:05.400 and sort of mapping them onto human behavior.
00:35:09.040 Oh, say more. What do you mean by that?
00:35:10.700 Well, the Bronte sisters didn't do, for all we know,
00:35:14.160 what Heathcliff and Kathy get up to.
00:35:16.500 What they did was write about it, right?
00:35:18.260 They wrote stories. They told each other stories.
00:35:20.680 And the wildness of the Bronte sisters is, to some extent, a literary displacement.
00:35:25.060 I think that's what Elizabeth Hardwick describes as that, right?
00:35:28.060 Yeah, she describes it as a virgin story, right?
00:35:29.860 Like what the Brontes did was they created, famously together, the three sisters,
00:35:33.640 a vast imaginary world as children that they wrote down.
00:35:38.240 So they had an intensity sort of displaced onto their imaginations
00:35:43.240 that these characters are finding in one another.
00:35:47.200 Exactly.
00:35:47.780 And I think that makes it really, really hard to make a movie out of it, too.
00:35:52.780 The fact that, like, this is ultimately about literary form, right?
00:35:57.100 This is ultimately about what it means to tell a story.
00:35:59.960 It's very hard to tell that story if you then don't signpost for the viewer
00:36:03.420 that you're getting someone's version of events.
00:36:06.920 And guess what Emerald Fennell does?
00:36:08.940 She removes any indication
00:36:10.320 that any of this might be focalized
00:36:12.300 through unreliable narrators.
00:36:13.900 And she's just like,
00:36:14.700 nope, it's what happened.
00:36:15.840 They did it in the carriage.
00:36:17.240 Then they did it on the moors.
00:36:19.740 I would say that Emerald Fennell
00:36:21.020 makes the whole thing kind of dreamlike, right?
00:36:23.320 It's a little druggie.
00:36:24.580 Yeah.
00:36:25.100 The sense that perhaps we cannot trust
00:36:27.920 our own understanding of this relationship
00:36:31.700 or what we are receiving of it
00:36:33.280 It might be more filtered through, like, some of her stylistic choices, but the fact that I have to, like, venture that as a possible guess in, like, the most generous possible reading of Emerald Fennell's aesthetic and design choices, which I think are really weird in this adaptation, might not be, like, a great endorsement of the movie.
00:36:51.140 Yeah. Well, let's maybe talk about the aesthetic of the movie a little bit. Because the movie, as you say, and I hadn't thought of it this way before, but yes, it replaces the multi-perspectival aspects of the narrative with tonal and or stylistic clashes.
00:37:06.280 The movie seems to have three visual modes, I would say. One is kind of discount Tim Burton, which is Wuthering Heights with like real sort of hammer horror energy. It is always foggy with some sort of German expressionist design thrown in.
00:37:21.880 Yeah, it's, like, very black. There's, like, these large, stark silhouettes of a background. It's a little, like, crooked and, you know, black and white checkered floors. It reminds me a lot of, like, a cheap play in a black box theater, you know, like the community college theater department is putting on.
00:37:41.740 You know, like a music video made by somebody who works at Hot Topic.
00:37:47.620 There's a lot of like cheese and it's cheesy on purpose, I think, to give like maximum credit to her.
00:37:53.080 It's also excessive, right?
00:37:54.480 Like when the father in this version is a drinker, so you have to have two corners devoted to just empty bottles.
00:38:02.320 Right. It's cartoony. Yeah.
00:38:03.980 I don't know. I think something that Hardwick points out, we should probably just link to the Hardwick in our show notes if we can.
00:38:09.700 if it's not, like, a terrible copyright violation to do that.
00:38:14.520 But, like, one thing Hardwick says is she talks about these two Byronic principles of Kathy and Heathcliff
00:38:20.840 who are these sort of, like, little crucibles of, like, passion and intensity together.
00:38:25.340 And she says that they are uplifted by their prosaic surroundings, right?
00:38:29.980 They've got this sort of, like, no-nonsense, working-class Nelly.
00:38:33.820 They've got the sort of banal alcoholism of Harriton.
00:38:37.800 They've got the, like, nice bourgeois Linton family.
00:38:42.000 And the contrast with these, like, aggressively normal people makes their intensity and their, like, recourse to evil stand out even more.
00:38:50.660 And that's not what Fennell does.
00:38:52.700 Fennell puts these crazy people with these, like, carnivalesque flights of passion into a carnivalesque world.
00:38:59.320 Yeah.
00:39:00.120 The second world is that of Thrustcross Grange, which I can only describe as Bridgerton.
00:39:06.600 Yes.
00:39:06.880 Basically, Kathy ambles out of a Hammer horror film and is like, oh, I'm in Bridgerton now.
00:39:11.500 And it really feels like, yeah, it feels like, you know, Dorothy arriving in Oz.
00:39:15.420 She comes into like a literal walled garden.
00:39:17.700 I think there's like actually a croquet game or something to that effect.
00:39:21.100 Yeah.
00:39:21.760 And when she enters that walled garden of the Lintons, beautiful, functional, high class, like much more brightly lit world, Isabella is literally talking about Romeo and Juliet.
00:39:35.160 Like this, like, implicit comparison of these two characters to this kind of, like, paradigmatic love story was, I thought, like, really heavy-handed and dark.
00:39:47.120 Yeah.
00:39:47.600 And then the third mode is just, there are scenes, especially in the Dales, clearly shot on location, that just seem to say, hey, these are the beautiful locations that we're thinking Bronte was thinking of when she wrote this book.
00:40:02.940 and there's kind of no stylization whatsoever.
00:40:06.220 And you're like, okay, what does that mean?
00:40:08.120 Like, is this now the natural?
00:40:09.760 Is that the real?
00:40:10.720 What's going on here?
00:40:11.920 Like, there's very few stylistic tricks
00:40:14.440 once we get sort of into nature.
00:40:17.540 They're both the children at the beginning
00:40:19.320 and the adults later on
00:40:21.040 sort of seem to just be inhabiting,
00:40:24.020 I don't know, a Merchant Ivory film from 1991.
00:40:26.340 It's just like, it's deliberately non-stylized, right?
00:40:29.800 In its presentation.
00:40:30.660 The moments where she chooses to break with historical accuracy and convention, which are pretty consistent, but sometimes she draws more attention to it than others.
00:40:40.660 I will say like one interesting thing is she did like this, like almost all Maldivar homage where she gives each character a color.
00:40:48.320 So like Kathy is red and pink. Heathcliff is black. Edgar Linton is green and Isabella Linton is yellow. And these like kind of recurring colors sort of like laces you through the different stylistic modes. But I found it like a little incoherent.
00:41:06.360 I asked one of my friends who is a like big, you know, Bronte head.
00:41:10.760 I was like, Jessica, I know that the bedroom that Edgar Linton makes for Kathy at Thurcross Grange that he says is painted the color of her face. 0.93
00:41:23.240 Like, does that have any purpose beyond like setting up this shot where Jacob Elordi licks the wall?
00:41:32.060 And she's like, no, I don't think so. 0.93
00:41:33.140 I mean, but then like, then you're also like, okay, it's like, it's a literal prison of her body because we're living in a world where women's bodies are commodities, right? 0.76
00:41:43.000 So the other thing that's very different about this Fennell version of Wuthering Heights is that Kathy sort of like dutifully goes and marries Edgar Linton, right? 0.60
00:41:52.960 She's like, oh, my dad is this, like, dissolute alcoholic.
00:41:57.020 The Wuthering Heights is falling into disrepair. 0.98
00:41:59.600 To save the family, I need to take this sacrifice and marry this rich, boring guy.
00:42:04.020 It's not really what happens in the book.
00:42:05.380 In the book, she's kind of, like, genuinely drawn to the glamour and the pretty dresses
00:42:09.580 and the sort of, like, promise of a conventional, upper-class life, right?
00:42:14.260 Yeah, although I guess I wonder whether Fennell would say it comes out to the same thing,
00:42:18.200 which is Kathy leaves because she grows up.
00:42:20.940 as you say, this is a book about real estate,
00:42:24.060 but it's also a book,
00:42:25.460 maybe like the great American fiction
00:42:27.940 of the 21st century, Arrested Development.
00:42:30.780 It is about how real estate
00:42:32.200 is really just a stand-in for Arrested Development.
00:42:34.840 She has Heathcliff knowledge,
00:42:36.140 and I don't remember whether that's a book line,
00:42:38.460 that he bought Wuthering Heights
00:42:39.660 because he could picture them there.
00:42:41.660 And that, I feel like, comes through in the novel as well,
00:42:44.440 that he is sort of drawn back ever again
00:42:47.540 into the world of childhood,
00:42:49.060 And she, for whatever reason, sees Thrustcross Grange as the next step.
00:42:56.060 As like, well, we can't do this forever, Heathcliff.
00:42:58.860 We got to get out there in the world.
00:43:00.420 I got to live on a second estate at some point.
00:43:03.000 Like, this is like, I can't live and die here.
00:43:05.440 Well, something interesting about the ending, and spoiler alert for those of you who have not read this book published in 1847,
00:43:13.800 And in the Wuthering Heights book, Kathy successfully gives birth to a healthy child, right?
00:43:21.520 She dies as a result of childbirth.
00:43:23.920 Like, she dies sort of because she cannot enter into this next generational future, right?
00:43:29.460 In the Fennell adaptation, she dies because she has an incomplete miscarriage and she develops sepsis.
00:43:35.100 and like the sort of birth of this removal
00:43:39.680 out of the childish fantasy world
00:43:42.280 that she shared with Heathcliff
00:43:43.500 or the birth of a more authentic relationship
00:43:47.040 with Heathcliff, both of those fail, right?
00:43:49.580 And she cannot give birth.
00:43:50.860 She cannot enter into the future.
00:43:52.640 And therefore this fetus dies inside of her 0.94
00:43:56.100 and kills her. 0.99
00:43:57.680 Yeah, I mean, they're both figured
00:43:58.980 in the Fennell adaptation as themselves infants
00:44:02.140 that have not matured, right?
00:44:04.640 As she's dying, she sees the actor who plays child Heathcliff, like, emerge outside of her garden and call to her.
00:44:10.960 Well, and she says of him, I named him, he is mine.
00:44:13.940 There's, like, a lot of play with the idea of pets, etc., etc.
00:44:17.040 Like, yes, that's about possessiveness.
00:44:19.640 Yes, that's about the violence of childish greed.
00:44:23.160 But it is also just an index of someone who hasn't quite matured, right?
00:44:27.740 Like, Roby plays Kathy as being petulant in a way that doesn't feel quite adult, right?
00:44:34.100 Yeah.
00:44:34.220 There's something here about their dyad that basically has enabled each other's failure to grow up, right? 0.73
00:44:41.920 It's essentially a Kevin Smith movie or something like that. 0.95
00:44:45.100 They're mall rats. 0.94
00:44:46.240 They're West Yorkshire mall rats, yeah. 0.98
00:44:48.880 Yeah, there's a petulance. 0.99
00:44:50.780 They're very, very selfish people in a way that seems childlike.
00:44:55.140 I'm not sure that that's so different from the book.
00:44:58.180 Yeah, yeah.
00:44:59.280 Hardwick in her essay says, 0.63
00:45:00.460 Catherine in Wuthering Heights is nihilistic, self-indulgent,
00:45:03.280 bored, restless, nostalgic for childhood, unmanageable.
00:45:06.720 And I think, I wonder whether Fennell read that essay
00:45:09.300 and wanted to capture that,
00:45:10.780 because I think that is exactly,
00:45:12.240 that's the thesis statement of how
00:45:13.700 both of these people function in this adaptation.
00:45:17.100 I think something that really comes across,
00:45:20.820 partly because we are getting Nellie's narration
00:45:24.460 to Lockwood in the Bronte version,
00:45:27.740 is this, like, exasperated sense of just, like, anger at Kathy's entitlement.
00:45:34.820 Yeah.
00:45:35.180 Almost as much as the anger at Heathcliff's violence.
00:45:38.800 But do you want to talk about what Fennell does with Nellie? 0.51
00:45:40.840 Because I think this is really interesting, and that might bring us back to race. 0.61
00:45:44.480 Yeah.
00:45:44.780 Because it's an adaptation that deals with race in some weird ways. 1.00
00:45:48.780 Yeah, so Nellie, who is an unreliable narrator even in the book, 0.86
00:45:54.180 here becomes an agent
00:45:55.620 and becomes kind of included 0.99
00:45:58.280 in their little fucked up game 0.98
00:46:00.860 with each other. 0.99
00:46:02.020 As Moira was saying,
00:46:03.420 the Kathy in the movie
00:46:04.860 dies from an incomplete miscarriage.
00:46:08.680 And as she does, 0.52
00:46:10.000 Heathcliff sends her
00:46:11.300 one letter after the other
00:46:12.420 and Nellie is shown
00:46:13.180 burning them all.
00:46:15.160 And the entire time,
00:46:16.640 Nellie's like,
00:46:17.020 you got to get out of bed, 1.00
00:46:17.940 stop being such a wuss, 0.99
00:46:19.040 come on, come on, come on. 1.00
00:46:20.360 And then eventually she realized
00:46:21.520 that she's in septic shock
00:46:23.020 and she's going to die.
00:46:24.180 And then Catherine whispers to her something like, I'm sure you meant well, or something like that.
00:46:30.380 And Nellie says something like, you know, I don't think I did.
00:46:33.480 So she's actually, there's a third party.
00:46:35.900 There's a triad now. 0.85
00:46:37.160 And everyone's kind of a sadistic freak, you know? 0.93
00:46:39.700 Right.
00:46:39.980 And crucially, like the death and the failed reconciliation is mirrored with the one in Romeo and Juliet, right?
00:46:46.640 Yeah.
00:46:46.800 It's not that these people made choices that hurt each other out of, like, narcissism or pridefulness or, like, selfishness or cowardice, right?
00:46:57.180 It's that there was just a miscommunication and, like, but for this agent, you know, like, either, like, the stalled male in Romeo and Juliet or, like, the destroyed male by an evil, like, jealous sort of nefarious figure in the Fennell Wuthering Heights.
00:47:12.080 It's like, but for this interference with the attempt to communicate the truth, the past would be restored and we'd all be okay.
00:47:18.660 Like, that's where I think, like, Fennell kind of pulls her punches.
00:47:21.220 She makes this a much less dark version of the story in several ways.
00:47:26.240 And, you know, one of them is in making the central couple sort of, like, less responsible for their own unhappiness.
00:47:34.320 Yeah.
00:47:34.440 Yeah. And there's a crucial conversation in both the book and the movie that Keith Cliff overhears and misunderstands.
00:47:42.440 And in this version, Nellie brings about or facilitates that misunderstanding knowing that he's listening.
00:47:49.000 No, she knows he listens in the book, but she's like, Kathy, you probably shouldn't talk like that.
00:47:52.940 Like her account is that she's kind of more passive.
00:47:56.020 Yeah. 1.00
00:47:56.180 But then she like pretty quickly is like, oh, he ran away because he heard you say that shit about him. 1.00
00:48:00.860 Yeah. 1.00
00:48:01.160 Yeah. 1.00
00:48:01.960 This Nellie is much more of an active participant. 1.00
00:48:06.240 She is an active manipulator in some ways.
00:48:08.660 We're given to understand right away that it's not the Nellie of the novel.
00:48:11.600 The Nellie of the novel is a salt of the earth, as you say, sort of proletarian North Yorkshire type.
00:48:16.780 Whereas the Nellie of the Fennell adaptation is a sort of illegitimate daughter of a nobleman who has this claim on elite status that she's been denied, like a little parallel Heathcliff.
00:48:30.040 and she's also crucially played by a woman of color, right?
00:48:33.240 So this is an adaptation that casts Heathcliff,
00:48:37.400 the ambiguously raced character of the book,
00:48:39.320 as Jacob Elordi, I think possibly one of the whitest people on earth,
00:48:43.140 but makes the villain, 0.97
00:48:46.080 the sort of like inserted villain of Nellie into a woman of color
00:48:48.900 and makes the sort of like obstacle husband of Edgar Linton.
00:48:52.820 He is also played by a South Asian actor.
00:48:55.760 So it's an East Asian Nellie and a South Asian Edgar.
00:48:58.860 Yeah, Nellie Dean is played by Hong Chao as an adult and by an actress I wasn't familiar with as a child or as a young woman. And it's very interesting that she brings race in sort of on the margins. The movie neither blazes entirely through the racial question, nor does it really tangle with it. It seems to want to sort of acknowledge that it's aware of it, and then that's good enough, right?
00:49:26.100 But we have to talk about the racial illusion, which is that one of the scenes that Fennell uses to sort of illustrate Jacob Elordi Heathcliff's abusive childhood is that she has him be whipped by the drunken father, right?
00:49:42.300 And as an adult, Heathcliff has whip marks on his back.
00:49:47.360 He's got these sort of like scarred over lash markings.
00:49:50.860 And this evokes, of course, the famous photograph.
00:49:54.440 The poor Peter or the whipped Peter.
00:49:57.080 Yeah, a famous photograph of a survivor of enslavement whose back is covered in some really horrific scarring from a enslaver's whip, right? 0.74
00:50:07.920 This is a black man's scars in the Fennell version transposed onto a white man's body. 0.65
00:50:14.180 Yeah, so there is, so to me, I have to be honest that that for me was the worst of both worlds. 0.95
00:50:19.100 and like so you're aware of it
00:50:21.280 and then you don't really do anything with it
00:50:24.920 which is sort of like how the movie treats
00:50:27.180 a lot of its gender issues too
00:50:29.000 where you're like okay you're aware that this is an issue
00:50:32.200 and then you just kind of put a check mark behind it
00:50:35.340 and move on and it's like well no
00:50:36.960 like interpreting this novel would mean grappling with them
00:50:40.920 and interpreting these things
00:50:42.080 and you just can't be like
00:50:43.440 and that is also a thing that people have remarked on in this book
00:50:46.580 Yeah, I mean, I think this might bring us to a kind of final note, which is the weird sex politics of this movie.
00:50:55.780 Yes. 0.96
00:50:56.340 This is a really horny movie. 1.00
00:50:57.720 It is a movie with like a lot of allusions to vaginas and like what vaginas look and sound like when they are aroused. 1.00
00:51:08.680 right so there's like a lot of noise a lot of like slappy gooey like macaroni in a pot in the 1.00
00:51:15.400 cardi b valence noise like that noise is repeated there's a lot of eggs uh like sticking your
00:51:22.860 fingers into raw eggs there's a long scene with uh dough uh like a big ball of wet dough being
00:51:30.740 sort of like slapped around there's one scene where margot robie robbie robbie sticks her finger
00:51:36.260 into this like aspic gelatin mold it's sort of like reveling in the evocation of what bodies
00:51:43.220 sound like during sex it also opens like i think at this point pretty famously with like sounds
00:51:50.220 that sound like like sexual exertion like somebody grunting or like groaning a little bit and then
00:51:55.980 you see that it's actually somebody hanging it's a hanging scene there's a similar scene where like
00:52:02.240 some servants at Wuthering Heights are like butchering a pig and there's some like grunting
00:52:05.920 noises and somebody like sticks a knife you know like runs a knife down the like corpse or that
00:52:11.100 like carcass of this animal and then like one of the other servants goes harder you know there's
00:52:14.880 like a lot of evocation of sex and like a hinting at the proximity of sex and death right like it's
00:52:20.600 gross it's violent it's got this like darkness at the center of it that's part of Fennell's
00:52:25.340 thesis about sexuality yeah I fully agree can I just like revel for our listeners and underline
00:52:31.800 for our listeners how wildly uncomfortable
00:52:33.740 this was to watch sitting next to Adrian.
00:52:35.900 I am.
00:52:36.760 It was like when you're watching a movie
00:52:38.300 with your parents
00:52:39.120 and a really intense sex scene comes on. 0.55
00:52:41.780 It was not my favorite way
00:52:44.860 to spend time with Adrian,
00:52:46.620 to be honest with you.
00:52:47.720 Now I find out.
00:52:49.540 So I must admit I didn't feel that way
00:52:51.660 and I think this difference might be
00:52:53.980 kind of telling.
00:52:54.880 I was worried going into it,
00:52:56.620 but I was like,
00:52:57.820 it's not a sexy movie
00:52:59.620 and it's not a, it's a horny movie,
00:53:01.900 but mostly it's just a gooey movie.
00:53:03.580 I was like, okay. 0.99
00:53:04.240 Spoken like a gay man, Adrian Daub. 1.00
00:53:06.760 It's just like, it's just a lot of goo. 1.00
00:53:08.980 I'm like, I, like the first five seconds,
00:53:12.460 I'm like, oh, ooh.
00:53:13.480 Then I was like, yeah, okay.
00:53:14.600 Like, it's just very, it's sticky.
00:53:17.000 There are a lot of sticky surfaces.
00:53:18.900 But I think to me that was kind of telling.
00:53:20.580 It has a kind of juvenile fun with this stuff,
00:53:24.320 but ultimately it's only skin deep.
00:53:26.940 And then I think part of it is also that like,
00:53:28.700 She thinks she's updating the material, right?
00:53:31.360 It's not your mom and pop's, you know, Wuthering Heights. 0.98
00:53:33.680 Like, the original Wuthering Heights is far more fucked up than this. 1.00
00:53:37.280 Oh, if you want to be a freak, like, reveling in your own gross horniness and emphasizing the darkness of desire, like, bring back the necrophilia, you coward. 1.00
00:53:46.380 Exactly, right? 0.99
00:53:47.060 Like, he digs up her corpse to, quote-unquote, embrace it.
00:53:50.000 Yes.
00:53:50.500 Like, Emily goes there.
00:53:51.960 Yeah, and Fennell does not.
00:53:53.560 Fennell's goo is essentially ersatz goo.
00:53:56.440 It's just posy goo.
00:53:57.920 And I think part of that is that she's kind of reacting to 170 years of reception to this book.
00:54:07.280 And she thinks like, oh, I'm not going to make a period drama.
00:54:09.980 So like, yes, if you were to imagine a Merchant Ivory adaptation of this book, like, yes, it would be a lot less squeaky and macaroni-esque than this.
00:54:20.340 It would be more like dignified and sensual kind of a bodice ripper than the like gross and horny kind of a bodice ripper that Emerald Fennell has made.
00:54:30.040 I think like the 1992 one with Ralph Fiennes and Juliette Binoche is like this, you know, like the sex scenes are implied when people sort of like gaze longingly over the moor.
00:54:40.600 And that's when, you know, and whereas in Emerald Fennell, the sex scenes are implied like through sex scenes.
00:54:47.740 It's not implication.
00:54:48.800 There's no subtext.
00:54:49.480 It's just text.
00:54:50.160 Yeah.
00:54:50.340 Yeah. But I do think that there is this, this is a headline that I know you love from The Onion of, you know, so Emerald Fennell is just going door to door trying to shock people with fish and aspic. It's like, again, like the book is way more shocking. I don't know why we're doing this.
00:55:05.780 Well, I don't think she's just responding to adaptations of Wuthering Heights and receptions of Wuthering Heights.
00:55:12.700 I think she's also responding to the like blockbuster movie landscape, which has been over the past decade, like very sexless, like very like, you know, the classic critique of Superman movies. 0.97
00:55:25.060 Like everybody has these perfect, like almost inhuman bodies that it is impossible to imagine fucking. 0.98
00:55:31.200 Right. It's like a really like sexless cinema. 0.99
00:55:33.700 And so she's kind of like going, I think, trying to be very aggressive about the sexuality of the story as a corrective in an attempt as Richard Brody at The New Yorker, who's kind of like this offbeat movie critic who always loves the movies that everybody hates and hates the movies that all the other critics love.
00:55:49.480 And he loved Wuthering Heights.
00:55:51.580 And he says it like has nothing to do with the book.
00:55:53.700 It's not a good adaptation or a successful adaptation of the book, but it is a revival of the romance genre.
00:55:59.240 And like that's what she's trying to do.
00:56:00.680 And when I was trying to think about what I wanted to say about this movie to our listeners, I honestly thought a lot about our conversation with Abby Klutchen of Ordinary Unhappiness when she came on the podcast to talk about romanticcy, right?
00:56:12.560 And clearly Emerald Fennell is taking from some of that genre and taking from some of the conventions that it's reviving.
00:56:20.120 Things like The Fated Mate is big in this movie.
00:56:23.380 Things about like enemies to lovers, like the kind of like hostility between Kathy and Heathcliff
00:56:29.180 and their sort of ill treatment of each other as being a like vehicle for their desire that like kind of magnifies its intensity.
00:56:36.880 Like that's all in there.
00:56:37.920 I think this is like a movie that has an intent to arouse, but it's also a little bit like, once again, it's like somebody who works at Hot Topic, like doing the Hot Topic version of what S&M is, right? It's a little juvenile and it doesn't quite go there.
00:56:56.600 The other thing I took away from our conversation with Abby was exactly that this is also kind of a resurgence of the trauma plots. And to me, that was one of the things that made this movie less than successful in the sense that like, and I want to be careful about this, that as a narrative technique, trauma has this, as opposed to something that happens in people's lives, it has this difficulty that it flattens explanatory modes, right?
00:57:21.540 And I think that's kind of what happened here.
00:57:24.720 Part of what happens with Catherine and Heathcliff is unknowable.
00:57:30.600 And part of what makes them so terrifying is, like, how did you get this way?
00:57:34.500 Well, Emerald Fennell has an answer for that.
00:57:36.140 And it's like, it's violence, right? 1.00
00:57:38.380 It's just all the violence you put into this.
00:57:40.800 And she seems super interested in the etiology of how these people get to be this way.
00:57:44.940 But the etiology is ultimately, like, super one note, right? 0.51
00:57:48.360 Which I feel is something that we don't get in the book because, A, we can't know because they never tell us, but B, because there's a sense that the book is really kind of trying to make an anti-Rousseauist point or someone in the book, someone narrating in the book is trying to make an anti-Rousseauist point and just be like, look, maybe it was society, maybe it was capitalism, maybe it was, some people just are kind of fucked up and they shouldn't be friends with each other.
00:58:13.360 like not all kids are good they're bad kids like what do you want right and and um like i'm not
00:58:19.520 saying that that's ultimately the truth of withering heights but what makes withering heights
00:58:23.660 to me such a bracing read is that you are entertaining that possibility and in finnell
00:58:29.200 the first five scenes are just basically like watch a guy get hanged watch someone get beaten
00:58:35.140 watch a pig get butchered and then you could almost imagine like someone like swiveling around
00:58:39.940 their chair and be like and how could you expect these children to grow up to be anything else
00:58:44.380 right and you're like no come on but but all of that is also supposed to be sexy it's like look
00:58:49.100 at this guy get hanged and then look at this couple that's so aroused by it that they start
00:58:52.720 making out so like i think this is a point well taken about the character of heathcliff
00:58:56.360 that finnell creates right you're making basically the point that perule sagall made in her 2021
00:59:02.640 piece for the new yorker i think it was 2021 against the trauma plot right and she's talking
00:59:06.720 about trauma as a narrative device.
00:59:09.300 She's really going after A Little Life
00:59:10.700 by Hanya Yanagihara.
00:59:13.060 And Seagal says, like, look, this book
00:59:14.840 doesn't do the work of building
00:59:17.920 a really complex, interesting character
00:59:21.100 because it uses a shortcut of this main character's
00:59:23.640 past experiences of violence, right,
00:59:25.080 as formative and explanatory.
00:59:27.260 What Perul Seagal, I think, would deny doing
00:59:30.440 in that piece, but which I think she was
00:59:32.440 functionally doing, is also critiquing
00:59:35.700 the use of trauma as it had emerged in me too right she's like these me too stories
00:59:41.840 place trauma at the center of these women's lives in a way that is not sustainable or responsible
00:59:49.040 or like adult right this is the critique of pearl seagal that jamie hood makes in her excellent book
00:59:54.760 trauma plot right and it's interesting to me that the concept of the trauma plot as this sort of
01:00:00.320 like narrative shortcut or narrative flattening emerged as part of what we might call like an
01:00:06.700 intellectual backlash to me too, right? But here it's being deployed for a male character in the
01:00:12.700 Fennell script, right? She's like, look, this male character who is violent and filled with rage and
01:00:19.380 hatred and contempt, she is formed by past experiences of violence, right? Whereas Wuthering
01:00:25.580 heights her source material the emily bronte book is a book with shocking amounts of violence against 0.99
01:00:31.420 women gendered violence it's got domestic violence it has beating it has rape it has women basically
01:00:36.380 as commodities right it has pregnancy that is unwilled and forced it has you know maternal 0.55
01:00:41.980 mortality right it's a book about the things that men and the things that gender do to women and the
01:00:49.020 ways it can constrain their lives and emerald fennel takes basically all of that out yeah and
01:00:54.360 And I think really you want to drill down on Heathcliff's relationship with Isabella Linton, right?
01:00:59.780 Which in the Bronte material is brutally abusive.
01:01:04.600 Yeah.
01:01:05.020 Like it shocks the conscience to read this. 0.97
01:01:06.940 It's part of why you can't retrospectively read the first act of Wuthering Heights as this like bodice-ripping aspirational romance because this guy rapes and beats the shit out of this woman for a big chunk of the book. 0.94
01:01:22.360 Fennell transforms that into a consensual BDSM relationship. 0.84
01:01:25.520 And that is where I think you transmission from like this is a bad movie to like this is kind of an evil movie or like this is an anti-feminist movie, right?
01:01:34.420 Because the notion that – this is like a problem for partisans of BDSM in general that what they consider sexy looks so much like just like actual gender abuse.
01:01:45.860 But that is sort of like taken on as a reading and a presentation of this relationship in a way that I find like really irresponsible and frankly evocative of like other anti-feminist intellectual moves, right?
01:02:00.000 Like what was Sigmund Freud doing when he rejected the seduction theory except like taking an account of sexual violence and turning it into an account of sexual fantasy?
01:02:09.580 Like what was like, you know, like the sex radicals did this to the anti-violence feminists when they like posited a critique of porn or of BDSM.
01:02:19.720 They were like, actually, you just got off on this.
01:02:21.440 You know, like Sophie Lewis did that to Andrea Dworkin. 0.99
01:02:23.320 Like this is like a recurring theme when women try to advance a political critique of rape to like be accused of sort of desiring rape or of desiring sexual violence.
01:02:35.520 And I think, like, Emerald Fennell is sort of playing into that with what she did with the Isabella character.
01:02:40.740 And that's why I left, like, actually mad.
01:02:42.960 I was like, no, no, no. 1.00
01:02:43.980 He fucking rapes and beats this woman. 1.00
01:02:46.940 And she's not, like, happy about it or winking about it as she literally does in the movie. 1.00
01:02:52.360 It also was very conspicuous to me that Fennell went out of her way to clarify for viewers that he does not kill the dog.
01:02:59.060 Yeah.
01:03:00.700 She, like, in the book, he very much does kill the dog.
01:03:04.040 And in the movie, you get a shot of the dog very much alive after they have departed because she did that on purpose because she knew that her viewers, she was more afraid of what it would evoke in her viewers if she said that he killed the dog than what it would evoke in her viewers if she eroticized rape.
01:03:21.740 And like that is very telling to me.
01:03:24.020 Yeah, I mean, I'm thinking now about this movie holistically
01:03:26.680 and about the fact that, like, what's the point
01:03:30.780 of not just telling a story like this in 2026,
01:03:34.440 but rather to adapt a novel like Wuthering Heights?
01:03:37.940 And if the project is to return some of the earthiness to this,
01:03:44.700 and I mean, that's very clearly, aesthetically, what she's going for,
01:03:48.900 what is then the point of the move that you're describing
01:03:51.780 of saying, oh, but this part of the novel
01:03:54.720 is now just fully a fantasy, right?
01:03:56.860 That's not real.
01:03:57.900 Everything else is squeaky, icky, real.
01:03:59.820 Get used to it, man.
01:04:01.300 And this part, it's just fantasy.
01:04:03.040 Like, okay, there's a way you can tell the story
01:04:05.660 where everything is kind of fantastical,
01:04:07.740 given that like, it's all told by, again,
01:04:09.520 like we know what happens in the book through Nellie.
01:04:13.280 You could imagine a version
01:04:14.680 where Nellie is someone with an overactive imagination, 0.59
01:04:17.500 but then that applies to everything globally.
01:04:19.780 But what's noticeable here is that
01:04:21.640 Fennell actually leans into
01:04:24.220 two contradictory impulses
01:04:26.060 for different subplots, even though they're 0.96
01:04:28.120 happening in the same fucking universe. 0.97
01:04:30.220 And it's like, well, okay, then 0.99
01:04:32.000 that seems to be about
01:04:34.060 extra aesthetic
01:04:35.580 considerations and preferences. You'd rather
01:04:38.180 not deal with this, which I get
01:04:40.240 having read this three times now. 1.00
01:04:42.400 I wouldn't want to have to put that shit on 1.00
01:04:44.140 screen, right? But 1.00
01:04:46.000 it's not bold
01:04:48.340 if you then pull your punches
01:04:50.120 in the most telling place where, as you say,
01:04:53.000 where it would put this movie in a totally different category
01:04:56.580 and have it be part of a very different conversation.
01:05:00.140 I mean, really would be quite a difficult movie to promote
01:05:03.180 and it seems like Fennell doesn't want to promote it, you know?
01:05:06.140 Yeah, it's a lost opportunity. 0.89
01:05:07.700 I feel like, you know, if you want to be gross, be gross. 0.58
01:05:09.700 Like if you want to be a true freak, be a true freak. 0.86
01:05:12.060 Don't pull your punches. 0.97
01:05:13.120 Put the necrophilia and the rape and the wife beating on the scene.
01:05:17.620 Don't have Heathcliff ask for consent.
01:05:20.120 It's not what he would do.
01:05:21.900 Anyway, so that's our long reaction to the book of the moment.
01:05:27.460 I think we talked for about as long as the movie is.
01:05:30.360 Yeah, yeah.
01:05:30.900 You should, I mean, it's, I just called for a rape apologist, but go see it. 0.99
01:05:34.500 It's hot trash. 0.98
01:05:35.200 It's fun. 0.97
01:05:35.900 It's very, like, fun to look at.
01:05:37.700 You know, you'll have a good time.
01:05:38.600 Yeah, yeah.
01:05:39.500 So long as you turn your brain off entirely.
01:05:41.860 Yeah. 0.54
01:05:42.500 Just sit on some eggs.
01:05:45.540 Stick your finger in some aspic.
01:05:47.280 It'll be fine.
01:05:47.820 Yeah. 1.00
01:05:48.120 Yeah, and get the closest pig and just like let it all out like that pig. 0.96
01:05:53.140 Anyway, thank you for listening as always and following us down yet another one of our weird rabbit holes. 0.96
01:05:59.180 And see you next time on In Bed With The Right.
01:06:01.340 Thanks for listening.
01:06:04.440 In Bed With The Right is made possible by hundreds of listeners who support us via Patreon.com.
01:06:09.020 Our episodes are produced and edited by Mark Yoshizumi and Katie Lau.
01:06:12.520 Our title music is by Katie Lau.
01:06:18.120 You