00:01:30.640hi oh shit hi there we go i'm so excited me too me too you must be a little bit burnt you've done1.00
00:01:50.260a million of these in the last i've done a lot in the last couple of weeks i have but i haven't0.98
00:01:56.980been on a witch podcast so there's it's extra special actually for me i lit i burned some
00:02:03.920cedar i have lit i lit a candle that's back there if you can see it anyway it's it's a pretty cool
00:02:11.860one and i pulled two cards from my healing herbal deck so i'm ready oh i feel so good
00:02:20.680welcome listeners welcome all my nerves all my teenage improv club excitement
00:02:29.820all the versions of ourselves that had wild dreams that pushed in through the masks that
00:02:39.820we wore welcome all of those beings with us today in this weird coven we make between our ears
00:02:47.420our guest today is carolyn taylor i mean if you're a canadian for sure you know carolyn taylor
00:02:56.500this is like iconic feminist comedy like baroness von sketch changed everything if you were like me
00:03:05.900and you grew up obsessively watching kids in the hall when you saw this there was this wave of
00:03:10.800emotional relief like oh fuck finally my friends are here and kellen taylor brought that into
00:03:20.580existence conjured those women brought them into the room and then together they created those0.94
00:03:26.320fast-paced hilarious weird stories that made fun of us and showed us truth and it was the best
00:03:36.020And then just recently, this weird series, she conjured into existence also. I have nothing. I struggled to describe it. I felt so weird watching it. Has it been weird to talk about? Because it exists in this weird place between comedy and like such earnestness?
00:03:56.860Yeah, that was the scariest part about it. When I was finishing up the edit with the editors and the team and Zach, it was like, oh, gosh, this is a lot more earnest than I realized it was going to be. And is that OK? And and I mean, I realized that as I was going through the journey as well, like, oh, wow, I'm in this. This is I have to do right by this vision and by these skaters in this world and the conjure, the dream of it all.
00:04:26.860And so as a comedian, that's scary to put yourself in that position where you're not
00:04:31.120like just commenting off on the side or, you know, playing a huge character or something.
00:04:37.020So, yeah, that was that was scary for sure.
00:04:55.080we had a couple of just sort of basic interviews the first day and then we went to the psychic
00:04:59.860that first day so that was on our first day shooting and I went in you know with an open
00:05:04.460mind and heart and decided like I'm not going to make fun of psychics or to make fun of that
00:05:09.480experience I'm going to have the experience and I've had my cards read I've read people's cards
00:05:14.620you know great respect for it but I did not expect that I was going to be brought to tears
00:05:19.280on my first day I don't even know the crew well and now I'm like I'm welling up I'm like oh
00:05:24.360god this isn't what this this is how i thought it was gonna go and that sort of set the tone
00:05:31.840it was like we don't know what's gonna happen we'll see you know you had to convince people
00:05:36.820yes to go on this journey with you yes you had to convince people to put money in and like there's
00:05:42.540a crew like people are hired did they think it was a joke like was the vision you talk about
00:05:48.300getting this awesome sizzle made was the vision at that point like comedian does a funny thing
00:05:54.240I think people, everyone came to it with a different sense of what it might be because we weren't following a template or a formula, including me. So I didn't know exactly how deep I was going to go. But I think once, you know, Sandra and I had spoken and I really committed to going for like Cordieva and Peltier, it was like, oh, there's no fucking around now.
00:06:21.580like yeah we can have fun yeah there'll be funny moments and there'll be all the stuff around it but
00:06:26.740i can't fuck this up she's the goddess at the greatest of all time and don't mess this up and
00:06:34.260okay and that became really wild to dive in like that felt like going through a portal you've0.59
00:06:40.660talked about how you felt like you were channeling something yeah i mean like you or you were possessed
00:06:46.340You used the term, I was possessed when you were on show.
00:07:14.980So when that landed, that was, that was extraordinary as a feeling like, oh, people are hearing what I'm saying. I'm able to convey this or we're able to enter this space together and communicate together. And I'm able to do these jumps on stage. They're able to see like people were like, no, no, I saw you landing the jumps up like that. So, oh God, what was the question? I'm not sure.
00:07:38.900okay well the question was the possession the idea about what was what was possessing you what
00:07:44.360were you possessed by how did that feeling of being like carried how do you relate to that
00:07:48.280in your life in general i have seven questions about the word possessed i'm so excited when that
00:07:53.180happens when a vision takes hold and you can feel momentum yeah you know and certainly with
00:07:58.900baroness there was momentum and you spoke to the conjuring i mean each of those artists conjured
00:08:03.220themselves for sure i of course you know brought them together as a group the four of them but they
00:08:08.320have, you know, they really, we were all creating it together. Those are powers for sure. Those are
00:08:12.760powers. So anyway, just to, but with this, with this possession, when there is momentum and you
00:08:19.940feel that you kind of, your job is to get out of the way a little bit, like to plan and also allow
00:08:25.620the forces to work. And I mean, I'm talking like this with you, I wouldn't necessarily with
00:08:30.560everybody, but yeah, when, when you seal those forces, you, you try to go with them and then
00:08:35.340ideas present themselves and then you think you've hit a roadblock and next thing you know
00:08:39.760someone else appears and there's a different door that opens okay I guess we're going this way
00:08:45.000and so it's almost like the shape of a river you know like where you know we're caught it was not
00:08:50.200a straight line it was not a straight line yeah I mean you kind of talked in another interview about
00:08:56.220your experience doing the Camino in a similar fashion that it was like you kind of had to
00:09:01.900lean into trusting that when you needed something it would show up yes so the Camino really taught
00:09:08.600me that like I recommend that to anyone I mean I walked the Camino I think it was 2005 so I think
00:09:15.640it's changed a lot you know and maybe become more popular and more populated but yeah if you
00:09:21.380surrender to that process and you say okay my only job is to walk west for 30 days there's some
00:09:29.160clarity that comes and then your own issues come up so if you have an issue with authority or you
00:09:34.080have an issue with you know whatever a type of personality type you're a boss suddenly you're
00:09:38.380not with that person anymore and yet that dynamic is showing itself again so that was a great
00:09:43.860learning experience to be like oh no it's you wherever you go there you are and what you need
00:09:48.240appears when you need it and and when you actually lean into that and go okay i'm going to trust that
00:09:52.520and play with that it becomes you know a really really cool experience yeah magic even magic
00:09:59.140for sure for sure yeah it's a great oh that walk is fantastic like I struggle with the word
00:10:05.520spirituality I part of what we you know this this podcast is sort of investigating what the word
00:10:11.560witch even means and claiming it you know as a space of activism and creativity and art and
00:10:17.700politics before we've started the podcast you said you pulled two cards you lit a candle you
00:10:22.660when I wrote to you which I couldn't believe you wrote back you used hashtag witch sees which
00:10:26.820how does that word sit for you or like do you feel comfortable thinking about witchiness0.79
00:10:31.880so yes I feel comfortable thinking about witchiness yes I listen I I think
00:10:39.380because of our deep histories all of us that go back you know generations and generations
00:10:46.500I don't I don't take the word lightly you know and I also know there's a lot of
00:10:52.040pain and horrible abuses. So to identify as a witch, I think is to carry some of that fear
00:10:59.680forward, you know, if we're speaking that way. And it's even scary to talk about it like this.
00:11:06.040I definitely feel in tune with it. I always have. And so, yeah, while I don't put it in my bio,
00:11:13.020I definitely feel like a witch. And a lot of my friends, sometimes we find we're in a natural
00:11:17.040coven. We're all sitting around a fire, not people who I specifically identify as witches.
00:11:21.120and then we're like oh god there's 13 of us here we are we're in a coven so let's call it light
00:11:27.320not not necessarily well researched but certainly attuned to nature and herms and forces yeah it's
00:11:37.880a funny one i appreciated that you that you were cool with that or that you saw that part for sure
00:11:43.940are you in your cabin i'm in a studio yeah in in the backyard and it's a studio that was just
00:11:53.380an old garage and my friend phil helped me and we together i learned how to use power tools and
00:11:59.360stuff and we put in all the stuff that's what on kijiji and so now it's my studio space in the
00:12:05.640backyard yeah it looks beautiful and so comfortable it is i really love it it feels
00:12:12.660like one of the things a friend and I were talking about is I was talking about this room and to
00:12:18.280finally have a you know this idea of a room of one's own and you know I was like oh this room
00:12:22.820is giving me room this space is giving me space just this idea of having a space that's yours
00:12:29.220that you've created through work what's like bubbling in the space these days or like is
00:12:35.740your imagination starting to go to next projects what what comes up after I have nothing are you
00:12:41.640choreographer now? I mean, that makes me laugh when I think there are choreographers like,
00:12:48.540well, and Sandra has said, you know, oh, we should do something together or you should do another
00:12:52.700show, you know, a live show or something. And just trying to embrace that in a really playful,
00:12:57.880fun way and say, well, sure. If people want to work with me again, like, yeah, let's, let's try
00:13:03.700it. So both the choreographer and the comedian and me find it funny and something that, yeah,
00:13:08.700I really love that process and I do think in choreography a little now for skating it took a
00:13:13.720long time for it to land for me I was well into the project before I even understood that oh my
00:13:19.600job is to take emotion and translate that into movement and so yes I would other ideas are
00:13:26.680definitely percolating there yeah there's some for sure bubbling and then it's knowing when's
00:13:31.820the right time when the heat starts to you know when you start to feel it on a different project
00:13:36.160or or a season two or something so yes things are bubbling but I'm not I haven't gone into full
00:13:43.660full manifestation my I the dream show that I want to attend is a live show with different
00:13:55.500skating routines choreographed by different non-choreographers executive produced by you
00:14:01.980oh that's I that oh I like that a lot because I like that skating so underutilized as an art
00:14:12.140form right yes and it was really interesting to hear the skaters and how excited they were
00:14:17.280or that they were to have someone from outside the community you know work with them and how
00:14:24.180an outsider sees things versus the people who really been in it a lot of them their entire
00:14:28.780lives. So yeah, to see other people come together. I love when, you know, disciplines cross. I love
00:14:34.520it. I remember being, do you remember, did you ever watch The Love Boat as a kid? Oh, like a
00:14:39.580little, like grandma watched it, but I wouldn't remember names. Okay. Well, one of my favorite
00:14:43.920things that used to happen in network television back then was like when things would cross like
00:14:47.720the Charlie's Angels are on The Love Boat or, you know, it's like, what? So I love when people
00:14:53.960from different disciplines cross into each other's world. They're like, you're not supposed
00:14:57.380to be on fantasy island yes what's happening so anyway yes so I would love to do more and I love
00:15:03.600your idea that's great yeah I want to talk more about like how improvisation worked and in those
00:15:12.220moments of creation because you're in this like super tight time frame it seems like yes definitely
00:15:17.900yeah like you only have these icons for a couple of days under really rigid conditions yes and part
00:15:25.460of the joke when you're watching is like carolyn doesn't know the terms she can't skate she has a
00:15:31.420helmet on it's all very silly like you've talked about how the agreement was like you would always
00:15:36.340be the buffoon they would never be the joke and like that works so beautifully but there is also
00:15:41.640a thing where it feels like to me anyway in watching where they start to like shake out a
00:15:49.420little bit and be willing to improvise with you yeah and like play with you can you talk about
00:15:54.320what that seemed like it was like for all of you for them oh it was so exciting I mean it it I think
00:16:00.180originally I thought I was going to be with skaters for about two weeks I think Sandra had
00:16:04.140said you know you want 12 days or like you know 8 to 12 so then when it was like four days I'm like
00:16:09.680oh god and and personalities you know when David Peltier came in he's like okay so let's just show
00:16:15.700me what to do and I'm going to train it and then we'll do it and we'll keep practicing and then
00:16:19.120it's done and it was like oh that's not it oh what I want to do and so bringing them into the
00:16:27.180spirit of improv which really you can only improvise or actually for myself I can only
00:16:31.640improvise when I feel safe so I started at second city and learned improv there and I was a fairly
00:16:37.300terrible improviser at first and if I didn't feel safe with my cast or I was new or was to boys club
00:16:44.000or whatever I just I didn't I wasn't in the moment and I couldn't play and now it's one of my favorite
00:16:49.960things to do and you know in Baroness we improvised a lot and on stage if I'm with people I trust and
00:16:56.560like I love to improvise so it was an exciting part of the process and and Zach Russell who also
00:17:02.940directed the show and was an executive producer we would you know be back and forth talking all
00:17:08.680the time and I'd be like well I want to see what happens he's like no no what happens in the story
00:17:12.800what happened and I'm like well I don't know because it hasn't happened yet and that was a
00:17:17.460really cool dialectic because in television and creation you do actually need to plan certain
00:17:22.800things but in improv you have to leave room for magic and for things to happen to play the truth
00:17:29.200right so that was a really I think that worked in our favor that we had those two forces
00:17:34.360you know in the creation process yeah that's so interesting and then for the skaters did you feel
00:17:41.140like that was a genuine like a similar experience like they had to feel safe with you and then they
00:17:46.860were willing to improvise moves I believe so yeah you know in watching the series again and in the
00:17:55.040edit suite and watching it's like oh right they really I mean Katya was sort of more open to all
00:18:01.260of that at the beginning certainly she likes she was eager to try those things but at the same time
00:18:07.440when we're talking about like lifts and you know really intricate moves it's as we learned in the
00:18:12.180show and i learned it's dangerous you actually can't just like have fun and toss someone in the
00:18:17.020air so i think it was we built that trust and that had to happen at like breakneck speed but we were
00:18:26.360together and creating a really safe environment and i think just the way you say to me we're we're
00:18:31.260doing this podcast and we can edit it and if you need to take a moment you have that that ability
00:18:36.600It was creating that same kind of container to say, hey, my objective here is not to make you look bad or funny or make fun of you.
00:18:43.900And it is a comedy, but chances are, if anyone's laughing at it, it will be at me.
00:19:05.900I wish, you know, if we could have even started there and had a few more days, but it happened when it needed to.
00:19:12.540So that sort of last day in Toronto was really exciting.
00:19:15.480That was when tons of great work got done.
00:19:19.340And then in Edmonton, you know, that final push by then, it was like, it's a bit like when you're on a deadline and, or for me anyway, I can procrastinate, procrastinate and then have laser focus at the end.
00:19:30.940And so it was in those those final days and hours that a lot of the really precise work got done.
00:19:39.820It's so it's so emotional to watch because you do go through the like the really it's a real emotional journey, this series, like the six episodes.
00:19:48.120I'm sure the whole thing for you was was wow, especially I mean, there is this strange through line with, you know, the song.
00:19:57.800I have nothing. The song is written by the same person who wrote the Calgary Olympic.
00:20:03.200Yeah. David Foster wrote both. When I found that out, I mean, I'd, I'd always known that he had
00:20:08.560written the 88 Olympics. I always say that I loved the theme. I've always loved the theme.
00:20:12.660You know, if you're obsessed with those Olympics, you'll have the theme. I know it was David Foster,
00:20:15.900Canadian David Foster. And then when I learned I was preparing for the show and like just doing
00:20:20.800research and I was watching, I think Alina Waithe, Instagram live or something. She was
00:20:25.800talking with ricky minor the uh whitney houston's former musical director and and lena was wearing
00:20:32.720a bodyguard t-shirt and i was like oh what what's going on like this is cool like i'm into
00:20:38.320synchronicity and like this is strange and then talked about oh and then david foster wrote you
00:20:44.040know i have nothing i'm like what like i just my brain cracked in half and then that the song was
00:20:52.700actually released on my birthday I as I'm like yeah that's super weird I didn't catch that that's
00:20:57.600yeah I don't know if I've mentioned that but that yeah so that's super weird too so just as those
00:21:02.520things unfolded I'm like oh get out and then when people would say well can you just use a different
00:21:07.320song it's like that really was anathema because I'm like well well no I actually can't because
00:21:13.480that's not the point yeah that's not the vision you know it's not just oh comedian tries to
00:21:18.680choreograph it's like no no there was a vision and it needs to be as fulfilled you know to the
00:21:22.880best of my ability given you know what we have yeah yeah and I mean the other piece of this sort
00:21:31.640of like I don't know what a good phrase for it is I don't want to say the haunting of it but
00:21:39.520the there's like echoes right your your own family has all these echoes building up to this moment
00:21:46.160where you like for you to even have those references as a limp all the sports knowledge
00:21:52.940and then the beautiful tribute to your dad that ends up in this story like we hadn't expected that
00:21:59.440I mean that wasn't a planned story beat that was like you know my sister on actually the first day
00:22:05.040I was Zach and I were taking turns interviewing her and she started talking about my dad and his
00:22:10.520obsession with the Olympics and I was like what I didn't know this you know I think of him as
00:22:14.920baseball dad and so that was wild and then she you know or I guess Zach probably said hey can you
00:22:20.780send the whole movie she's like oh I've got some footage and the next thing you know one of the
00:22:24.300editors is staying up all night crying Andy King he said he he formed this beautiful tribute and
00:22:30.640found other voice recordings of my dad you know he really was present in this process in a way I
00:22:36.680I hadn't at all expected at all but it kept coming up and then an odd piece I'd share with you
00:22:44.440if anyone else who's listening, I suppose.
00:23:11.460so in a in a like what if imagining like so if you know this whole work is sort of being called
00:23:24.160forward by an accumulation of energies sure yeah what's what's it about or like what does your dad
00:23:36.800think of it well I don't know I really I really don't know I would love to know but I don't know
00:23:47.200I think maybe I just look at it almost as a protection if that makes sense yeah kind of
00:23:53.440spiritual protection but I don't know beyond that what does that mean what what's it protecting or
00:23:59.860how I'm not sure it's just a feeling of like of an energetic protection like I'm looking out for you
00:24:06.360and things are it'll be okay you know that sort of yeah that energy but there's something
00:24:13.420because I'm I mean I'm so glad you feel protected and I'm so glad you know had to make a safe
00:24:20.440container for people artists to make new things these are a lot of like magic terms and also like
00:24:26.840improv stuff yeah they're just like yeah interesting but I also think like because I
00:24:33.180was a viewer of it and it made me uncomfortable and emotional and it made me think a lot about like
00:24:39.040how strange it is that new things ever happen right like that how do you mean yeah well like
00:24:47.760how does something weird and new come into the world ever right I think when we let it like well
00:24:54.180one when we're open to it and I mean that I would say you know my mom certainly was a force that
00:25:02.980while she didn't live out all her dreams, she really was very open-minded, very open-minded
00:25:08.300to magic and ideas. And so that was never really quashed in us as kids. We were able to have
00:25:14.320imaginations and we weren't told that was wrong or stupid or whatever. I owe a great service to her0.99
00:25:19.720for that, for many things. I think original things happen when we stop saying how things have to be
00:25:26.820done. And that was what was really exhilarating about this show. There was no template. So there
00:25:33.320was no one coming and saying, well, this is how you have to do it. You don't do a docu-comedy
00:25:37.120about choreographing bigger skaters unless you do it this way. And it's like, there was no,
00:25:41.660there was no template. So Zach and I really spent lots of time in so many different possibilities.
00:25:47.060There were so many ways it could go. And I think that's part of conjuring, right? Like you have
00:25:51.620all of it and then it starts to say, oh, I'll take this and that. And then a lot of things just fell
00:25:56.240off to the side because they didn't serve the the story or you know but yeah I think it's staying
00:26:05.180open and realizing when someone says no they don't want to do that okay well let's do something else
00:26:11.040and then you find out oh actually now they are open to jumping or you're like okay well great
00:26:15.220let's right let's explore that yeah well and that's something I think is so interesting in
00:26:21.160the series too is or about you in the series is like you are so visionary like so like comedically
00:26:29.060visionary committed to this idea of this thing that you have like leapt across stages convincing
00:26:35.700people to see it oh god yeah and it's so great and the super fun thing is like as an audience
00:26:44.120member you watching you do the stand-up it's a it is like a very funny surreal brain body experience
00:26:52.900because it's like you actually I mean Mae Martin says it in the in the show the audience goes crazy
00:26:59.160because it's like they saw you just land the jump like there's something that happens in the brain
00:27:04.260that crosses over and that's so fucking cool already right yeah I think I lost my train of
00:27:11.140that just being excited about that but yeah it's there's something strange that happens
00:27:15.700something so strange that happens I don't know what it is you know and something that we contemplated
00:27:22.420a lot was this idea of memory and what is memory and so even when I'm you know in front of the
00:27:28.860audience on stage when I would do a lift and I would skate with the skater of my head I'm like
00:27:33.200skating like and the sandra's like well no you glide like generally you glide when you're holding
00:27:38.640up a skater there isn't someone skating like a basically like a hockey player you know with
00:27:42.720someone above their head and it's like oh okay oh right right but yet an audience when they're
00:27:48.860watching it they're not thinking that they're like oh yeah of course that's how it's done and
00:27:53.040so that's what it's interesting what our memories of what figure skating is versus what it actually
00:27:57.460is there's it's it's wild when you're actually confronted with the stark reality reality of it
00:28:03.160I remembered where I was going with that. Thank you for catching that ball.
00:28:09.060The other weird thing that happens or that you're so good at is like you're committed to the vision, but then also constantly throughout you improvise.
00:28:17.780So you're willing to be like, OK, it's not Kurt Browning and Katarina Vitt. It's not two singles where it's going to be this whole other thing.
00:28:24.920We're going to do an edit to show a jump somewhere. Like, can you talk about tools and practices of improv?
00:28:31.860that we can use in our own life yes there because i also heard you talk on an interview about the
00:28:39.280term greasing the chain oh that's like another one i want to talk about okay cool so save google
00:28:44.940save greasing the chain i'll put that over here so if i can remember it and the first question
00:28:49.200was about right so you have a vision at first it's like oh it's kurt browning and katarina vitt
00:28:52.900and then realizing oh that's not possible they're two single skaters i don't know if
00:28:57.600katarina vitt even performs on skates anymore you know kurt certainly was still but
00:29:01.860there are certain moves that pairs do that singles don't do. Oh, okay, right. I have to,
00:29:07.960you have to change. So I think part of improv, and I mean, I learned this at Second City,
00:29:12.560when you go out to do a scene, you have an objective and you, or even, you know who you
00:29:17.120are, you have a first line of dialogue. You don't really know much beyond that. And then you have to
00:29:21.140be ready to just keep throwing things away, like holding, you can hold your character, but you think
00:29:25.420you're a pianist playing the piano and someone's like, oh, you're baking dough. And you're like,
00:29:28.680oh yeah I'm making good you have to be ready to throw away what you went in with but you can still
00:29:33.600have the attitude or the character that you came in with it's a practice and what do you keep and
00:29:37.740what do you throw away what's essential and what is not and essential is I need to have a piece
00:29:43.880choreographed to this song with great skaters okay you can't use two singles all right well
00:29:50.880who can I have you know so you have to be prepared and I think that's part of the creative
00:29:55.060and improvisational process to really know what's essential and if you hold on to that and you're
00:30:01.840honest about that with yourself then the things are all there the materials there the i i think
00:30:08.840most often if if it's really something that you want to do and something that you
00:30:12.860you want to create with other people and a willingness of course of everyone
00:30:17.820yeah so there's a safe container yeah there's a willingness of everyone yes there's like
00:30:24.860being honest about what's essential or maybe those were two kind of separate things yeah maybe but
00:30:32.060something like that yeah and there's also look for what's there you keep you know I'd sometimes
00:30:38.080be like oh it has to be this well wait what is here okay let's do that instead like okay great
00:30:45.600and so just really being grateful for what's presenting itself and then sometimes it will
00:30:50.720morph into what you want like you you don't think it is and then it will and so that trusting there's
00:30:57.620definitely trust and and people being willing they don't have to know everything you don't have to
00:31:01.560know everything know enough like Sandra would say when she choreographs sometimes just knowing
00:31:07.120somewhere to start have something and then the next moments present themselves because in fairness
00:31:12.440she really does approach choreography from a place of improvisation as well but for the sake
00:31:17.940of the series she stayed more in and to be fair she needed to with me because i don't have the
00:31:23.980skill to do that she's an olympian she can improvise she understands the craft whereas
00:31:29.180someone who doesn't it's really important that they actually don't just leave it all to to chance
00:31:36.680so i think it's it's understanding those two things as well are there other ways i want to
00:31:43.640come back to greece in the chain but yeah all right are there other ways that like i feel like
00:31:49.780i i did improv in high school villa maria in ndg in montreal i went to villa maria before i no yes
00:31:58.640yes i switched i went i my best friend changed schools and i changed with her but i didn't know
00:32:05.660that when i said that i just knew that you grew up in ndg yeah yeah okay so i was there for a
00:32:09.820couple years that's really cool i i feel like learning about improv from a young age my dad
00:32:14.540was like a theater guy um like it made it possible for me to or it's been like a set of tools that i
00:32:23.220feel like make it possible for me to like start with the dumb thing you know start with something
00:32:28.600messy or be willing to jump into something and be really really uncomfortable or really ugly and
00:32:34.640then try to figure it out from there that's greasing the chain i think that's what that is
00:32:39.120that's our link yes so then greasing the chain i guess is a term is it musicians use i don't know
00:32:44.620i learned it from a couple of friends who are who are musicians so maybe it is a term i don't know
00:32:50.200i don't know it's etymology but let's say it's a term now yeah let's call it a term someone
00:32:54.460came up with it not me but this group of witches essentially we play together a band called mints
00:33:00.380and when we play we always start by greasing the chain which is like we each choose an instrument
00:33:07.000and we have something and we sometimes we close our eyes or not and you just start playing
00:33:12.180something or you might have a riff in your head or something and at first it sounds horrible
00:33:16.640because we don't say oh we're playing in the key of d or this is the progression we don't do any of
00:33:21.680that and so you really have to listen and if someone has sort of hooked into something cool
00:33:26.740then we all start adapting to that person right like you can't just do what you're doing without
00:33:32.020listening or you just have cacophony. But at first you can have greasing the chain, which means
00:33:37.460it's messy, it's ugly, it doesn't sound good. And you just keep staying in that space with the
00:33:43.500intention of finding connection and having something that sounds good. That's your intention.
00:33:48.600And you just slog through it. And then eventually, oh, you're all in the same key and things are
00:33:54.860sounding great and lyrics are starting to appear. And that's how we work all the time. It's starting
00:34:01.320from something messy and gross and and the thing that you wouldn't want someone walking in on
00:34:05.560because they'd be like you guys are horrible but if you can sit in that discomfort and know that
00:34:11.120you're going to find each other then it's I mean it's so worth it do you do you have aspirations
00:34:17.440or dreams or visions of doing more music yeah I love making music and I'm not particularly
00:34:26.300literally it's not I'm not a natural like I'm not a natural singer as you can see from the show
00:34:32.740I you know I can play different instruments and I love playing them but I'm not like ever ever
00:34:40.340going to be anywhere close to the best person in the room or even remotely even yeah like not even
00:34:46.480miles away from anyone who's very good but what I am good at is I'm a bit listening and I might
00:34:52.360just stay like on a keyboard and stay on two notes and find the truth in those two notes and
00:34:58.640collaborate and then often i'm on lyrics on vocals because we don't care it's not about
00:35:04.960sounding perfect it's about just keying into the truth or the oh gosh that sounds so woo well
00:35:10.760listen this is your audio these are the people who understand okay yeah it's safe space it's a
00:35:14.980safe space for yeah for finding what's true in two notes for sure yeah yeah so i do i have other
00:35:24.060i did do a music project a few years back with my friends at the bat house in kingston and we
00:35:29.920all got together over 18 days and there is an album that's been mastered and mixed i just haven't had
00:35:35.160the courage or the sense of timing that it's right to put it out though it exists but it'll
00:35:42.820be more like an art artifact not a like it has no dreams of becoming a hit pop sensation it's
00:35:50.080literally for the people who would find it interesting yeah yeah yeah I I feel like there's
00:35:56.540there's something to that like I feel like there's something to that as a gift to people who
00:36:03.640didn't get to learn that it was didn't get to learn how to be uncomfortable on the way to
00:36:10.720finding the thing you know what I'm trying to say no I do and you have to like that's there's no one
00:36:16.500who starts out good at something like I don't think that's path unless you're like a prodigy
00:36:21.500but short of that no you you kind of have to be bad before you're good and also in that sort of0.61
00:36:27.060spirit of that sort of wabi-sabi the beauty is in the mistakes right like and so even you know
00:36:34.220with my song with may our song you know it's not perfect and our notes are not perfect and the
00:36:40.840lyrics are weird and my voice is amazing it's a gorgeous amazing fantastic voice and i'm not like
00:36:47.540that but we wanted both voices to exist because it's in the imperfection that that that the soul
00:36:54.920sort of exists of the song you know rather than like bringing in top singers to bring it like it
00:37:00.440just wouldn't i don't know i don't know so i think embracing the beauty and imperfection and
00:37:06.300being again around safe people who who value those things as well then you're able to create and and
00:37:13.520that's your audience like those are the people you're playing with and for did that feel did it
00:37:20.280feel like it added safety having may there i know you guys are yes for 25 years well someone said
00:37:26.94025 it's wrong 20 anyway 23 damn misquoted again oh gosh it felt great because may is such a
00:37:36.620fantastic comedian and and actor and friend and musician and improviser and observer of life
00:37:48.120and and open and interested in metaphysics and in the classics and the greeks and the hero's
00:37:54.820journeys and all of that so may of course was like the perfect person to someone said like that they
00:38:01.300were the greek chorus totally for me so i thought that was a really cool observation yeah yeah and
00:38:07.740as an audience you definitely feel like held by them but then there's also that moment when they
00:38:12.500are like oh i just realized this is not a joke right for you yes yes so there's a way that like
00:38:21.760having your closest person there can also be extra confronting. Like it's harder to not be
00:38:28.680who you've always been somehow. Yes. And then from a comedy perspective, someone saying this
00:38:34.820is no longer a joke is funny, right? So it's true that it's not funny anymore, which then makes it
00:38:40.900funny. So like it becomes a bit of a safeguard, right? Right. Yeah. Yeah. I can only imagine that
00:38:48.560it was spectacular to have them there but also i imagine it added to a bit to the out-of-body
00:38:53.920experience to have people who knew you in one way see you suddenly trying to do this thing very
00:38:58.580sincerely well and having may come back so may really was there at the very beginning of shooting
00:39:03.220and then you know went off back to la and then came back for the finale and when they showed up0.97
00:39:08.640they really were like what has happened and so that was very real it was like what the fuck0.97
00:39:15.320i was with my friend and we used to be joking and having fun and haha playing happy sack and now0.97
00:39:22.100yeah these olympians are listening to her what is happening yeah yeah yeah wild can i ask you
00:39:30.440mentioned before we started that you pulled two cards do you want to tell us what they were
00:39:35.240yes for sure so they often i'll let two cards like if they fall out while shuffling and so
00:39:41.480that's what happened with these two so and it's a herbal deck it's called the herbal healing deck
00:39:46.760and this deck appeared listen i have to tell you this is kind of cool i was walking in victoria i
00:39:53.120was working on a show where i was playing a witch okay no it was a kid it was a kid series and i'm
00:39:58.540playing a mean witch you know terrorizes the children of the town fine i had a bunch of days
00:40:03.820off and i'm walking in victoria bc and i'm talking to my friend lisa brooke who is also very very
00:40:10.440witchy and involved in all of this world. And so she was talking to me, I'm on my headset and we're
00:40:16.340just walking and I stop at a window and I'm just looking in a shop that looks interesting. And
00:40:21.540she's talking, she says, you know, we really, you really need to have a deck out there. You should
00:40:25.420have a tarot deck. You should have some sort of deck. And I'm like, well, Lisa, I'm actually
00:40:29.020looking like, as you say this, I'm looking at a deck in the window right now. She's like, I'm
00:40:33.840buying it for you because you want someone to buy your deck. So I went in and it's this herbal
00:40:38.760healing deck that has i'm really interested in herbalism and and so it has great information
00:40:45.460about herbs and roots and flowers and trees medicinally historically spiritually and then
00:40:53.400and as divination tools and the two that i pulled or that fell out today were calendula which is
00:41:00.380shine and essentially it's again very sort of childlike calendula and also just being open
00:41:06.440like that it's to me it says this is safe you know just be yourself and be open and it's okay
00:41:11.800you know like in some environments it's not safe to do that you've got to be cynical and
00:41:16.560you know funny and then the other is is turmeric persistence and this one's cool like while
00:41:24.600persistence doesn't look so glamorous here just keep working it the the description there's just
00:41:31.340there's usually a quote at the beginning oh it's an einstein quote okay it says never never give
00:41:36.020up on what you really want to do, the person with the big dreams is more powerful than one with all
00:41:41.200the facts. Einstein. Interesting. So that sort of speaks to, again, there you go. We're like,
00:41:47.940okay, so we're talking about this. And it's true because people with the facts, if we just went by
00:41:52.320facts, we'd say getting rights to a song that big is not impossible, but really fucking hard.
00:41:59.360And to start a project without having that secured is not smart, is not reasonable, you know, and it
00:42:04.780can be true. They could just say, I don't want to. And I like your faith. Like there could be no
00:42:08.920reason. There could be any reason to say no. And then you don't know how to skate. Who's ever going
00:42:14.960to agree to this? This hasn't been done before. How are you going to translate? Like there's so
00:42:19.000many facts that say this shouldn't work, right? What's extraordinary about this is there are so
00:42:24.480many people who are willing to see the possibility. And that was Catalyst, the people who I worked
00:42:32.180with zach of course zach russell blue ant who came on board and then craved bell craved to say oh
00:42:38.240i see this like they didn't see exactly how it was going to go we couldn't give them that but
00:42:43.220they saw that the passion was real the dream was real and that again i have tangible skills i know
00:42:48.080how to make television like zach is a genius people who know how to execute something have
00:42:54.080experience in the field that they're in whether that's a line producer or a pa or whenever people
00:43:00.580knew what they were doing in the positions they were in and they were open to it it's not being
00:43:06.580it's harder for personality types that like to know so i know that was very challenging
00:43:10.720for some individuals for sure yeah right like i feel like i i spend a lot of my life with people
00:43:18.400who are mostly like me because i'm sort of you know you're like a magnet for people who are kind
00:43:23.500of like you and like so i make a lot of messes and i try strange things and like i'm often with
00:43:29.760people who are okay with that but some of my my like partner my best friends are definitely more
00:43:34.860in the like like very uncomfortable to be so so messy yeah and that and I and I think that there's
00:43:44.020there's something there and how we learn to to dance with each other that is yeah it's that
00:43:48.400dialectic yeah yeah and in the right measure it really and respect for both methodologies or
00:43:55.900approaches is sort of what's needed and also which is the one that's guiding like which is
00:44:00.580the one that's guiding it so in this case the magic improvisational aspect ish is guiding but
00:44:06.340just like it's like but just you know because there still needs to be the planning and the hard
00:44:11.020budget things and the excel spreadsheets and the endless zoom meetings and yeah yeah you gotta have
00:44:19.460all of it yeah I mean yeah it does feel like that that mix of the the perseverance and the
00:44:26.840optimism maybe the maybe the the turmeric and the calendula yeah yeah is there anything that
00:44:33.600you feel like you have wanted to talk about more about the show or this experience I know you've
00:44:39.800done a ton of interviews but are there parts that you feel like well I I think I mean I have spoken
00:44:47.620with a lot of people and pieces have been written and sometimes people you know you don't get to
00:44:52.860hear all the people who worked on it and so often a light is like shone on me oh you're the one who
00:44:58.500created it you're the but there are so many people who took a leap of faith into the project and the
00:45:04.780crew and the camera you know DOP and camera people who were like on the ice and they are for hours
00:45:09.900like our DOP, Chet Tilakani and Dan Tamizian, Dan, when we were on the ice, then his whole time
00:45:18.100just with the camera and me. So while Chet was getting the other, the skaters, he was getting
00:45:22.840me. So he never even saw, he's like, I don't even know what the routine looks like the entire time
00:45:27.520I'm getting your reaction or you and Sandra. So just the different roles, all the people who had
00:45:34.260to try to clear rights to the song or rights to Olympic footage, that it really, while there
00:45:39.880was magic and conjuring there was a lot of hard work right and so i would just say that doesn't
00:45:45.740always that isn't always the part of interviews that makes the copy that it's not all just magic
00:45:50.760and it doesn't just appear like hard hard work has to be yeah part of it yeah we we say here
00:45:57.800there is no there is no mundane all the all the work is part of this yeah yeah yeah thanks for
00:46:04.480for helping us see outside the portal or the box of the tv to see all the people that were around
00:46:12.640there yeah getting cold on the ice getting cold yeah and taking chances yeah and like
00:46:20.420it's fun to imagine for me also the ripple effect of everyone tipping over into believing in
00:46:28.600the vision right yeah that was that was exciting that and it just i don't even know what the moment
00:46:34.620was when that happened but it just sort of did and yeah that was great yeah i can see i can imagine
00:46:43.960like i didn't grow up in a sports family but there were moments when watching the olympics
00:46:51.540where a great sportscaster makes you feel the hope and the sweat and the labor of the person
00:47:01.020whose brief moment you're watching now that person translates for you that kid's dream or whatever
00:47:07.160and suddenly you care about it even if you don't care about sports yes yeah so I sort of feel that
00:47:13.240I feel lucky to have gotten to encounter that bit of your dad in this story yeah that yes that's
00:47:19.860Thank you. That's a beautiful perception. It's true. And he loved sports so much. So when I listened to the broadcast that he did for the expos, he was the, I think they called it like the color commentary or whatever that was. So the person who really brings in the emotion and all the sort of extra bits and just to hear him laugh. And he had a great sense of humor and a love of sport, like a love of the game.
00:47:41.300And then as someone who's not particularly athletic, me, and not super sports focused, to give over to that and be like, okay, like, holy, it's exciting.
00:47:51.980It's exciting to tap into those passions and worlds that aren't naturally yours.