00:27:28.780And in 2010, I had a very in-depth reading that really stimulated me to think about
00:27:37.880astrology in a new way and really start to apply it to my life and bring more understanding to who
00:27:45.360I was and why I did things. But what really set me on more of a professional trajectory was I adopted
00:27:54.680my nine-year-old niece in 2014 and I had been estranged from her for seven years. I didn't know
00:28:04.280who she was anymore. And I wanted a window. I wanted a way into knowing her personality and
00:28:13.500what might be the best way to parent her and also understand myself as a parent. So I took a deep
00:28:21.540dive and just went at it. And that's what set me up for professionally looking into astrology as
00:28:32.560a career path. Her chart has really helped me parent her. It still does. We utilize it together
00:28:41.760all the time. And as far as projects are concerned, like Eliza and Kestrel said, we have the podcast
00:28:49.040and we are currently working. We're in the preliminary stages of developing a curriculum
00:28:55.920for a Counseling the Goddesses course. And I personally am working on a astrological line
00:29:04.660of teas with a coffee company here in Houston, Texas. So the coffee company is Constellation
00:29:12.280Coffee Company, for those of you who are interested in Googling it and looking at it.
00:29:18.600And you'll give us the link for that to put in our show notes. Yeah, wonderful. I love this,
00:29:23.740how we we already have a doula and a person who was parented by astrology or an astrologer and
00:29:33.760someone who is parenting as an astrologer I would love to read the book that the three of you write
00:29:42.720together like parenting with astrology let's come back around to that because I want to start
00:29:49.120by playing the part of the skeptic. And I will allow any of you who feel most vehemently about
00:29:56.320it to answer first. You can raise a hand or just dive in with your shouts. But like, how the fuck
00:30:04.600can the stars tell us anything about our lives, our personalities, our history,0.95
00:30:11.900who we are as people? Like, come on, how is this even possible?
00:30:19.120so i'm gonna choose somebody if nobody raises a hand i'm gonna point to renee thank you renee
00:30:28.200i mean one thing that i think about a lot is how the planets function in space um if there were
00:30:40.420only one body in space we would be able to predict how that body would behave but as soon as you have
00:30:46.760more than one, you have a chaotic system. And there are so many variables in terms of
00:30:53.380magnetism, energy, and the ways that bodies influence each other. So to consider that our
00:31:04.900physical bodies, our cellular bodies live on a living planet in living space, space that is full,
00:31:14.000not empty, and full of so much constantly influencing each other. I find it surprising
00:31:20.280that it seems so out of the realm of possibility for many to imagine that astrology wouldn't affect
00:31:27.560us. And even looking at the moon, the moon's pole on the waters of the earth and the way that the
00:31:38.320tide shift of the new moon and the full moon um on a physiological level our cells are doing the
00:31:45.340same thing so that that would be one of my answers i think thanks for asking that yeah um i i mean i
00:31:54.520have my own ideas about this but um certainly like i said astrology is my weak suit if life
00:32:01.880to wear a game of cards, but I just, you know, Zora Neale Hurston said in her own autobiography,
00:32:09.640time and place have had their say. And to me, that makes sense, you know, that time and place
00:32:17.100will have their say. Our whole concept of time as human beings is based on the movement of these
00:32:25.400celestial objects um so for me if you believe that having a concept of time is an influence
00:32:36.200on your life then it's an easy jump to say that you know celestial positionings also might
00:32:43.940um let's get another perspective on this alice how is this possible0.85
00:32:50.520um i keep thinking of like i don't know if anyone's read that philip k dick essay
00:32:57.640like how to build a universe that doesn't fall apart in two days and then like in the essay
00:33:05.160so like he writes fiction and then he talks about three instances where he met people that he wrote
00:33:12.480about and that's after he wrote the story uh so he meets this person at a party and he's like wait
00:33:21.320a second like she's telling about her life and this is like the down to the names and something
00:33:26.540I wrote about I feel like a lot of astrologers have kind of uh run into similar situations
00:33:33.060so I think that there's something about fiction that just can I don't know yeah can there's
00:33:41.840something synchronicitous about it or something you run into all these weird coincidences
00:33:46.700it allows you to create prophecy which may not be about predicting a future but about shifting
00:33:53.980your perception so I feel like there's something really magical about fiction because it's part of
00:34:00.200the imagination but like there is like an anthropologist who is studying like astrologers
00:34:06.340not astrology but astrologers and so he asked me like yeah do you think it's just kind of like
00:34:12.260make-believe or like part of the imagination or do you think there's something mystical about it
00:34:17.120and yeah I think it's both uh because yeah it's part of your imagination but there's something
00:34:23.820really mystical about your imagination too um so I think it's about the power of the imagination
00:34:29.000but I have no answers yeah yeah we don't look for yes or no answers around here we're looking for
00:34:38.140you know all the all the colors of the rainbow and then when we blend them together to invent
00:34:42.900new colors but we do like we're so into um celebrating the power of imagination around
00:34:55.040here and and taking it back from this patriarchal notion that you know imagination doesn't create
00:35:01.320our reality every single thing that's in every single one of the rooms that we're sitting in
00:35:06.780this computer began as an idea an idea come ideas come from our imaginations so again i think it's
00:35:14.500a very like you know capitalist patriarchal structure to demean the imagination and take
00:35:23.180it out of conversations about what is real and what is not real do any of our panelists have
00:35:30.080any thoughts on that before we move on to another yes with regards to the initial question I mean
00:35:38.480there and there are so many schools of thought and I think I probably shimmer between different
00:35:43.320schools on a given day but what I tend to come back to is maybe the planets do not affect our
00:35:49.860personalities, but they reflect us and we reflect them. And that's part of the magic. And I think
00:35:56.000it's a struggle really to have a rational argument about why astrology is real or why
00:36:02.360astrology is worth studying or worth understanding because it precedes reason and it also transcends
00:36:10.360reason and it is it's a form of magical thinking and if your if your mind is not porous I mean I'm
00:36:20.380not even saying this is a failing but if you have a mind that is maybe more um materially rooted and
00:36:26.300less open to the to forms of magical thinking that's it's going to be hard to to engage in
00:36:32.760that conversation um but you know if we can if we can cast a spell and that can have an effect on
00:36:39.060the material world why why couldn't we also be a reflection of things that are much faster than us
00:36:44.960and also things that are much punier than us i mean there's the there's the macrocosmos there's
00:36:49.860the microcosmos there's the very famous quote attributed to hermesis majestis of as above so
00:36:55.440below as without so within um it's the principle behind astrology is also the principle behind
00:37:01.680magic so yeah you know i've dated enough astrology skeptics where i'm almost can't have the arguments
00:37:10.000anymore but it's also like beyond arguing because the the the rational um syllogism isn't really the
00:37:19.680point it's like it's something intuited and it's something felt and i do think there's there's so
00:37:25.040much synchronicity like alice berkeley cat mentioned there is there is a magic in discovering
00:37:29.800it for yourself yeah I want to think about that um that connection to magic I think that uh that
00:37:40.720what if it were so thing opens up a lot of doors I I wanted to ask the panel so if it's so and let's
00:37:52.140begin there it is it's useful you use it it makes magic in your lives it gives you career paths it
00:37:59.540helps you heal it helps you parent so how do we use it in this time of i'm i canada right now is0.79
00:38:09.460a bit fucked like and and the u.s too you know and i'm a bit heartbroken there's literal nazis in
00:38:15.660in the capital you know um how do we use this tool that you use to re-enchant the world or to0.99
00:38:25.460support our resistance or to come closer to each other or to build possible futures.
00:38:35.500Kestrel, I was thinking about how you use it in therapy. Maybe I'll direct my question to you.
00:38:42.460Yeah, I mean, I guess I'm tag teaming off of all of this. I just, the mystery never leaves us,
00:38:49.740Right. And I think the more that we invite in our imagination and we invite in just the I'm like looking at my window, this beguiling beauty, this mysterious snow falling out of the sky, how Venus before she stationed retrograde back in December.
00:39:15.080We don't need to know all the dates. It really doesn't matter. But she was this evening star. And then all of a sudden she did this disappearing act. And where the heck did she go? And then she pops up in the sky as a morning star. And it's just, I'm in utter awe of it. And I think that is the enchantment.
00:39:34.700I'm into apprenticing the mystery and asking these, you know, I don't feel like I need to
00:39:44.500know what is happening. And it's similar to meeting my clients. Like I don't have all the
00:39:51.460answers. I don't think it's my job to know all the answers, but I want to meet people where they're
00:39:58.140at what do you think oh some doctors told you you have bipolar what's bipolar like I don't know
00:40:07.800psychiatry is kind of a poetic language but it's like what does that mean to you and I think
00:40:15.580is this even getting to your question Risa I'm just going off poetically maybe really in a little
00:40:24.180bit. No, I, I like, I like the idea that, well, you, you touched directly on the question of
00:40:30.980enchantment and using enchantment and using, um, astrology as a way to maybe help us reinvent our
00:40:39.420lives or invent our lives. Do you want me to toss it back to you or toss it to somebody else to keep
00:40:45.980weaving this, this question out together? Let's keep weaving voices. Obviously it could take up
00:40:51.640space, but I don't want to share it. I wondered what Jasmine, what you thought about that question.
00:41:01.020Sure. I think the biggest thing anyone can do for themselves is really get to know their own chart
00:41:09.120and be able to define how the archetypes show up for you personally and how you can navigate them,
00:41:18.560how you can use them, how you understand the different polarities in your chart
00:41:25.240to understand yourself and how you interact and engage with the world.
00:41:30.620And I really feel like it starts with the self.
00:41:35.860And once you understand that, you're able to help others.
00:41:42.200you're able to understand where your opportunities for growth are, you're able to understand where
00:41:51.540you might need help from other people. And I just find that I know probably everyone on this panel
00:42:00.780that's an astrologer, that's how they learned is by studying their own chart. And that's typically
00:42:05.740what we look at when we're, you know, navigating our everyday lives is our own charts and how
00:42:12.280the transits of the sky are affecting us. And then we're able to understand what's going on
00:42:17.940outside of us and in a much better way. So that's, that's my personal opinion.
00:42:25.860Sia, what do you think about taking that power of understanding ourselves,
00:42:31.980really understanding ourselves and in this profound way that I think astrology can give
00:42:39.780you access to and you're applying that to investigating bodies investigating stories in
00:42:47.560the past so can that help us can that help us understand more about the world and answer these
00:42:54.460bigger questions these these stories that exceed the archive yes I mean listen like the past is
00:43:05.400enchanted and I think if we're talking about how do we enchant resistance it's like
00:43:12.640the fact of moving into a space of enchantment puts me in the resistance and it puts me in a
00:43:21.460place of power. And the system is very interested, whether that's through educating us in false
00:43:28.160falsehoods, eliminating imagination from curriculum, rewriting the past to suit capitalist
00:43:36.780agendas, that the moment that I can look at something, if it's from an astrological lens
00:43:43.760or a magical lens or an imaginative lens, I feel like so much opens up. And that opening up
00:43:51.580allows me, I mean, I'm still scared every day. I have children, I have brothers, Black men in the
00:43:59.080world. It feels scary. But when I move into a place of enchantment, I feel like I can, there's1.00
00:44:07.380action there and that I can align my action from a place of love because I love this world I love
00:44:15.460what I get to do I love that I get to witness people in their magical states and and I think
00:44:22.180in terms of investigating things that there's sort of an uncovering in an excavation and and
00:44:29.460putting into the archive newness. And that to me is a form of resistance.
00:44:37.060Yeah, we use those terms, enchantment and resistance, you know, we have to be working
00:44:44.020against a system of, you know, exclusion and racism and all of those things. But we also
00:44:49.860need to be working toward a world that we want to live in. And so I think when we can,
00:44:55.860If we think of resistance and enchantment as a binary, we're, again, looking for that space in between where the actions, like you're talking about, Thea, where your work of enchantment is an act of resistance.
00:45:07.380And that's the sweet spot that I think we're all looking for.
00:45:11.180yes absolutely i think that when it comes to resistance and working together to overcome
00:45:18.580these these systems and build a better bigger world it starts with understanding our position
00:45:24.660in the revolution because not everyone's position is the same and sometimes we learn that through
00:45:31.940trials and tribulations and that's totally fine because at the end of the day our intention is to
00:45:36.940be there with one another and support one another um but through astrology we can understand our
00:45:42.620strengths for opportunities you know our shadow aspects and understanding ourselves in that way
00:45:47.260and and using those strengths and elevating those opportunities for resistance um so for example
00:45:54.520for myself like i know that my position in the revolution is not to be potentially always outside
00:46:00.660I going to these marches I'm a very sensitive being but I also have a lot of strong juju per
00:46:09.100se in my veins I'm a Jamaican black Canadian woman so resistance is literally in my bloodline
00:46:14.920it's all I know so I might not be on the street marching but you best believe you know that
00:46:22.040machete is being anointed with fireweed oil protection oil under the aspect of Saturn
00:46:27.160squaring off to Uranus and, and working with the elements that I have for my ancestral lineage and
00:46:32.680using that magic that I have, which I've studied through astrology. Um, other people's space of
00:46:38.980resistance might be on the front lines because they have a different aspects and different
00:46:42.940strengths and that's totally fine. But when we come together to understand our position in the,
00:46:49.400in the revolution and come together to understand how astrologically these events are taking place.
00:46:54.680So, for example, back in, I think it was 2020, when we saw the first round of huge marches going on in Black Lives Matter, it was literally the same weekend we had the lunar eclipse in Sagittarius.
00:47:06.860That's not a coincidence, but there's a lot of, you know, chaotic energy which can be used as a form of resistance through witches, through the mystics, through the healers, and through the people who are on the front lines.
00:47:18.980And so when we understand our position, we can make real shift and changes happen.
00:47:24.680I think you have the mic drop moment of the panel so far.
00:47:31.440Understanding our position in the revolution is going to be excruciatingly important.
00:47:40.340Alice, I want to bring up your book as an act of activism.
00:47:46.280Chani and two of you work for Chani, I think.
00:47:49.940And then she also did an endorsement for your book, Alice.
00:47:54.680how can we make astrology responsible for its impact thus far and into the future i think
00:48:05.140responsibility and activism are two words that are very very very linked in our worlds so can
00:48:11.760you speak to that a little bit in your book and oh definitely yeah i think through practice uh
00:48:19.440i think that like a lot of what people are talking about is like how do we practice imagination
00:48:26.040uh and then it's like yeah it's by it's by doing things it's like by taking things apart
00:48:33.920like putting it back together in astrology is a language so like by practicing it you're like
00:48:39.700you're actually destroying it in some ways and then you're also putting it back together in some
00:48:46.820ways too um like yeah I keep thinking about there's this astrology called the Jan Dixon effect
00:48:54.820and you talk about how astrology has all these pretty like traditional uh gender stuff and then
00:49:02.640how trans life and they say trans life is so good at taking apart and disidentifying um and then
00:49:10.520so yeah I mean you know that's by using it it's like by using it you make it into something else
00:49:16.240that's the language too yeah yes there um you say in your book there are problems within an
00:49:26.520within astrology where does one's gender identity fit into gendered binaries venus and mars
00:49:32.120and so on and so forth so um there are so many of you that could respond to this question but
00:49:40.180I want to turn to Thea. How did your charting of Harriet Tubman help you to understand her
00:49:49.580legacy and her activism? It's a piece that I'll link to in the show notes. For those of you who
00:49:56.380are listening, it's fantastic. The title is Harriet Tubman is Mercury Manifest. So if you're not
00:50:03.740hooked just from the title alone then.
00:50:24.820you know, this journey to freedom did not stop
00:50:28.840just because the Emancipation Proclamation happened.
00:50:33.740We are all on a journey to freedom. Her last words were, like, I go to prepare a place for you. And like, can I even, that after all she gave and all she did, that she was still talking about, but there's more to go.
00:50:54.520and so what she did on this i feel like in studying her acts right this is how we bring
00:51:06.000the magic down we have to as renee would say embody it or we have to act it out and it's
00:51:11.580got to be lived is that she was she was a boss she was like relaying information
00:51:17.980she was a spy she was divining she was she was uh gutsy brave uh people said that you know she was0.92
00:51:30.180crazy to do what she did and she was crazy you know she did all the things and so i think
00:51:36.520studying her act specifically of the kombahi river raid where she was like we're ready
00:51:43.240let's go free 800 people who this is after the emancipation proclamation now who are now being
00:51:51.080held illegally are enslaved let's go free them right she was the motivating factor people are
00:51:59.420like yeah i don't know i don't know if we if we want to do this it's the same and she was like
00:52:04.580no we can do this and so that lived bravery that lived love that faith i think for me is something
00:52:12.440that um just continues and every time I mean to me the project that aspect of it was written but
00:52:20.460it feels never done like I always feel like I'm on this journey with uncovering more about Mama
00:52:26.060Moses life and that there is this this this North Star guiding aspect that whenever I even personally
00:52:34.560feel lost or feel overwhelmed i go to mama moses and so yeah i feel like i'm rambling now but that's
00:52:43.740same same you know we we opened our circle today with a with a quote from harriet tubman and
00:52:50.560conjuring an idea of her using that north star as a guide and and so can we you know reach for
00:52:56.580the stars to change the world it's kind of our motto for today um so we've seen that astrology
00:53:02.940can help us contextualize the present, the past, even the future. But what about ourselves? I want
00:53:11.640to ask Renee, how do we embody astrology? I think one of the gifts of astrology is the echo
00:53:23.520in it. And that probably everyone here who's practicing astrology for sure loves it for this
00:53:31.300reason that there are so many narratives in the world telling us who we should be and what can
00:53:41.500come through with an astrology chart and understanding your own aspects is affirmation
00:53:48.020and integration when you get to feel and and see and hear yourself reflected back to you
00:53:56.560um and also and again just like thanks Alice for your book because astrology is a language that
00:54:08.000has been developed under particular conditions and has been propagated and disseminated by
00:54:16.260forces of dominant power people have access to publication etc for a long time
00:54:22.480And so a lot of the symbolism has been written with deep inherent bias and prejudice embedded in it.
00:54:31.680And so I feel like to embody astrology is, is to work with imagination as a felt sense, and to allow the symbolism and ideas that come through with whatever you're looking at planets, constellations, time of year, and feel it out, you know, to feel it out to not take a prescription around something.
00:54:59.700Mars means violence or something like that or masculinity but to take all the words that you
00:55:06.040can gather in the associations and people's meanings and let them echo and rest but also
00:55:13.360feel like you get to respond and I think that that that is a way that we can engage with
00:55:19.520astrology to embody it which is to not take it as a prescription to not take it for granted
00:55:25.140to not um think that it's a formula but to lean into the symbolism as it as we find it you know
00:55:34.760and where we find it and to take all of it to take all the little pieces that we get from everywhere
00:55:39.780and then to feel it out and to feel how it can enact because the the placements and um
00:55:47.720and and symbols will manifest so differently for different people and how they manifest
00:55:54.160is going to have everything to do with that person's particular experience and their body
00:56:00.860and social location um and there will be similarities and i think that that's the
00:56:07.700cool thing you know about astrology for a lot of us is we can look at charts and go wow this
00:56:12.560aspect is manifesting in this way for this person and in that way for that person we see these
00:56:17.640energies coming forward. And they are the same energies, but they're revealing themselves and
00:56:24.840enacting and embodying in very different ways. And how does that relate to your yoga practice?
00:56:37.400So I trained in yoga for about 15 years, and it has now been a little over 10 years since I've
00:56:47.140really been uh involved in maybe what people will call a yoga practice but um yoga is a form of
00:56:56.460esoteric knowledge and healing is uh has has evolved alongside astrology and the linkage between
00:57:10.300the way that light and movement or heat, whether we're looking again at planets or constellations
00:57:17.760or time of year or time of day, how that moves through a particular body will have a lot to do
00:57:23.900with the bodily constitution. And this is a huge realm of research within Ayurveda.
00:57:32.080And then that realm of research continued within kind of the early formation of Western medicine
00:57:38.720as well when it was still linked to spirituality and animism. But for me, they clicked really early
00:57:51.420on before I knew that they were linked. Because when I was tuning in with astrology,
00:57:59.340it's this language that's full of characters. You read about astrology or you start to feel
00:58:05.440into it and it's like these characters just want to emerge you know and so for me like when I feel
00:58:11.300into my Saturn character it's so different than my Mars character and they they want to take up
00:58:18.860a different kind of space in my body they put me into different shapes posturally they do different
00:58:24.200things with my facial expression and my organs and studying uh spiritual movement practices such as
00:58:34.620yoga. Um, but I think any, any practice that brings one deeply into the felt sense and into
00:58:39.980the body, those same kinds of things happen. So when I tune in with my heart resonance,
00:58:45.360as opposed to my spleen resonance, I feel really different. There's a different mind that arises
00:58:51.740for me when I'm really in my muscles, as opposed to in my bones, um, different shapes can manifest
00:58:58.680in different kinds of energetics and attention and energy and so uh the the link for me at first
00:59:06.720was very playful and imaginative of like feeling that when I uh approached different embodiments
00:59:14.740that certain characters would come in and then when I would work with characters in astrology
00:59:18.840different embodiments would happen um and then I started to learn how they came together and then
00:59:25.880from there it's just been an ongoing kind of unfolding um but i experience it in client work
00:59:33.360all of the time and when i come into space with a client i'll i'll see their chart and immediately
00:59:39.100my body will respond and it happens i think probably for all astrologers that you know we
00:59:45.320like tune in with these felt sense uh manifestations in a chart before we have the language for it
00:59:53.400before it's like coming out as, oh, you have this placement in this place or dah, dah, dah. It's
00:59:57.420like, we feel them. Wow. Okay. That's that feeling. How do I describe it? And so yoga
01:00:04.600as a practice is a practice of coming into attunement and unification between your different
01:00:12.500parts, whether that's mind, heart and body or spirit and self. And I think astrology does that
01:00:19.120as well. Lolly, I see you smiling and nodding and mouthing the word yes over and over again
01:00:26.480while Renee is talking. Do you want to add something about the physical healing nature
01:00:31.760of your practice? Well, so for me, I was nodding a lot because I too, I'm a yoga practitioner and
01:00:41.200teacher. And so the way that I've found confidence in sharing my practice in order to host community
01:00:48.620with yoga is through actually astrology through the new moon cycle through the full moon cycle
01:00:53.840and this is where my slogan of heal thy tides for my business has come out from and so when i think
01:01:00.820about you know the physical body in astrology i feel as though um you know looking at certain
01:01:07.300uh aspects and and the planetary shifts we can really understand where we're feeling more
01:01:13.320either aches or pains or or freeing of self in the body in that way um and the idea of of
01:01:20.620channeling these different characters i definitely feel that resonates so so deeply because when i'm
01:01:25.580practicing yoga i'm definitely channeling that that mars and leo that i carry versus you know
01:01:30.720the venus and scorpio that comes out for you know speaking and channeling um so when it comes to the
01:01:36.540physical healing i think that astrology really allows you to channel those different characters
01:01:42.640and especially when we're talking about like chyron for example our chyron placement which
01:01:48.140many will call the wounded warrior and the wounded healer is also a place of where we can really
01:01:53.400conjure our medicine and understand that medicine can be applied to us as well and we can really
01:02:00.220channel that healing through physical movement through breath work right through meditation
01:02:06.080even and connecting to the three selves in that way in those practices
01:02:10.620yeah i i just i think it's amazing that we've already you know with with a panel of astrologers
01:02:18.880we've we've talked about intellectual healing and societal healing and physical healing and
01:02:24.780emotional healing and castro we touched on this a lot a little bit but like as a therapist can
01:02:30.720you tell us like specifically how uh psychologically healing that astrology can be either for you or
01:02:39.640your life and your friends or with your clients? Yeah, like I was saying before, it's been such an
01:02:47.800experiential process because I was a practicing clinician for 15 years, well, I guess 13-ish
01:02:54.620years before the astrology really started to ramp up for me. But what it did is it reinvigorated
01:03:03.860my practice it enchanted my practice it gave me a fresh new lens to step into a being's life from
01:03:13.660a totally different perspective and to basically walk them through the chart walk them through
01:03:21.020the sky think about what area of the life was being impacted to bring dialogue to it um for
01:03:30.140example, um, it's hard, it's getting harder for me to separate the two out. And I don't know if
01:03:37.660this will translate or I'll articulate it in a way that's understandable, but, um, you know,
01:03:44.020I'm always speaking the language of the skies, even if I'm not saying your Venus is doing this
01:03:50.180or this polarity is doing this. Um, sorry, I I'm a classic and losing my train of thought.
01:04:00.140Um, but for example, with the recent Venus cycle, you know, it's a 40 day, 40 night process where,
01:04:09.180you know, depending on how you think about it, it is a chance to say, Hey, during this 40 day
01:04:16.100period of time, we can be very experiential. What is your lived experience? Let's be curious.
01:04:24.000I don't know. And, but there is a bit of a framework. I mean, she literally, like I was
01:04:30.340saying before, and I know I'm using the she pronoun, but you know, it could definitely be
01:04:36.060so many other things, but we see the planet shining so bright in the Western sky, and then
01:04:43.140it disappears. And we can think of it back going down into the underworld. And as it goes into the
01:04:49.460underworld from being perhaps like a more mature version of itself what is it shedding what is it
01:04:57.100letting go and then translating it for clients you know what what opportunity do you have to let go
01:05:04.460of something to rec and also potentially reclaim something of yourself that you have forgotten
01:05:11.680about that is laid hidden and then in this particular venus retrograde i couldn't help
01:05:17.620noticing but Hades was there you know however you want to contextualize Hades but it is very
01:05:23.080transformative it's an underworldy energy and I also love playing with the myths I'm a huge fan
01:05:31.000of looking at the myths and retelling the story but could it be you know Persephone and it wasn't
01:05:36.940maybe so much of an abduction but perhaps it's something that she wanted to explore in herself
01:05:42.200and individuate and so it also becomes this dialogue with clients of individuating and
01:05:49.080becoming more of themselves knowing myself a lot more and then you know this planet all of a sudden
01:05:55.220it reappears like I was saying it's magic you know in the eastern sky and lots of people don't even
01:06:01.020notice this is going on but I'm like oh my gosh she's a magician this magical act is happening
01:06:06.260and then supposedly she stations retrograde and we know we can track her cycle in the size she's
01:06:13.200one of the most perfect cycles she's less erratic than the other planets but as she starts to move
01:06:19.000forward what is happening in your own life what have you sat with what are you learning what are
01:06:25.040you starting to implement and change and look at your patterns what is no longer serving you
01:06:30.040what can you do differently and it's just all these questions that start to unfold and it becomes
01:06:35.780a dialogue and it's it's a collaborative dialogue I'm not having it on my
01:06:41.420own with the client we're doing it together so that's just one example
01:06:46.840can I ask them Lisa's excellent question from the chat and I invite anyone else to
01:06:55.000share questions there and we'll do our best to give voice to them in the time we have left with
01:07:00.660these stars um lisa's asking can a person map their birth chart on their body as someone who
01:07:10.860has lived with chronic pain and thinking about the word healing and the weight that that can
01:07:15.860have for people who are chronically ill how does a person's chart relate to their experience of
01:07:22.920their body can we can we guide our way through illness chronic experience by understanding our
01:07:29.500chart do those things map Jasmine do you have any thoughts I know you were talking about the
01:07:43.260individual experience earlier and I just want to hear more from you generally so if you want to
01:07:47.200address it and then just tell us more what you've been thinking yeah I can I can speak from personal
01:07:52.360experience um like for me i have saturn on the ascendant and what the ascendant means is it's
01:08:01.200what was rising in the eastern part of the sky at the time that you were born i'm a virgo rising
01:08:06.380and saturn rules the bones and the archetype of virgo is mutable earth and i often wonder
01:08:18.200why I gravitated towards certain practices, certain types of exercise. Um, you know, I,
01:08:26.600I, I practice yoga as well, and I find that it does really help me with specifically my body
01:08:34.580structure and my bones. Um, but what I know that I have to do in order to work with that Saturn
01:08:43.720archetype is I am an avid sauna person that does a lot of breath work in the sauna. And Saturn is
01:08:53.840a very cold and dry planet. So by working with heat and working with breath work and moving this
01:09:02.820energy throughout the body, I'm really satisfying that archetype. And I'm able to feel a lot better
01:09:10.160as far as how I'm interacting with just my day-to-day life. And you can start to look at
01:09:17.300the planets and look at the signs in an archetypal way, according to how they might show up for you
01:09:24.540in a physical sense. That's one example. So by looking at the bird chart, if you have different
01:09:30.720planets that are rising in your first house, you can start to understand how that might show up
01:09:39.660from you on a physical level um so there's different ways of doing it but that's the way that
01:09:47.000i i uh i think it was renee who brought up ayurveda i have a friend who practices ayurveda
01:09:55.180and she spent some time studying ayurvedic astrology and she just tells me they're all
01:10:02.280systems you know if we're looking at the at the body and the system and things circulating and
01:10:07.640we're looking at the sky and the planets and things circulating like it we really are just
01:10:13.040using whatever tools we have to analyze whatever systems we encounter right yeah i see some nods
01:10:20.960i'll take it renee um i also just wanted to add along with uh what jasmine said um
01:10:31.320i've i've experienced this a lot because my client work uh blends body work in astrology
01:10:38.260often or energy work in astrology that one one way to think about a map with the natal chart
01:10:45.060in the body is through uh fascial tension or what can manifest as tension in fascia and postural
01:10:50.920pattern um because a lot of the expression of energies is a physiological expression it involves
01:10:58.820all the systems of the body it's emotional and psychological as well as physical um many of the
01:11:05.800physical attributes that you might read about in a medical astrology text or something like that
01:11:10.720have a more internal emotional component to them um and so there there can be like an internal map
01:11:19.760of people's aspects it's really interesting i'm thinking about a venus virgo uh square
01:11:25.860Saturn Sag placement that I worked with recently. And the way that that postural pattern
01:11:32.100manifested in a body brought both of those placements forward into a very specific way
01:11:42.980of walking and moving and holding their central carriage, et cetera.
01:11:48.300i think yeah oh sorry go ahead eliza i was just going to add on to that one way into this for
01:11:59.160folks listening who maybe don't know a lot about planets or how they aspect each other
01:12:04.540one um way into this is looking at the elements i feel like elements are such a visceral
01:12:09.800part of astrology that are um they're a bit easier to wrap your mind around so
01:12:14.320So in astrology, as in many other practices that have a so-called Western tradition, there are four elements, water, fire, earth, and air.
01:12:25.800And if you could look at where your personal planets and key points are in terms of those elements, you can see a map of what's maybe balanced or out of balance.
01:12:38.800and leaning into those elements archetypally which are quite intuitive it's it can be a way
01:12:46.240to bring in perhaps what you are lacking or work out perhaps what you have in excess i mean i think
01:12:53.800we do this naturally um without even really realizing it but to use drasman's example before
01:12:59.720if you if you for example don't have a lot of water in your chart then hydrotherapy might
01:13:04.620actually be really good for you. It might be really healing for you. If you don't have a lot
01:13:09.380of air in your chart, you might find you naturally actually read a lot of books. You naturally might
01:13:16.140invite in those airy connections. It's so strange the way that we balance ourselves through what we
01:13:23.900magnetize towards ourselves and through our natural interests. But I think you can use this
01:13:28.500as a healing modality too. And it can be very accessible for folks, even if you're very new
01:13:32.900astrology. I wanted to thank Eliza again, for those of you who are listeners of the Missing
01:13:40.820Witches podcast. You were on the show and you charted an event that Risa and I did
01:13:49.300and compared it to an event that Monica's show did that we based our event on and found all these
01:13:59.320interesting similarities that the word is validating it was such a validating experience
01:14:07.040for me to see what we were doing as an echo of what monica show was doing which one of you said
01:14:16.400the word echoes that i'm that i'm keeping in my astrological mind forever we're all nodding so
01:14:22.700yes we're all agreeing with the echoes and I think um most importantly I want to make sure
01:14:30.040that all of you I'm looking at all of you right now and give me a nod if you will come back and
01:14:34.900be an individual guest on the podcast we really want so much to dive into each and every one of
01:14:42.440your multi-layered spectral projects um but I love that we can be together even though it means
01:14:52.060everybody gets to talk a little less it means we get to bounce off of each other and that's so
01:14:56.880again validating and thrilling for me so by a show of nods if you're willing to come back on
01:15:03.200the talk yeah i see lots yeah so get ready missing witches listeners we're going to be talking a lot
01:15:09.180of astrology this year yeah i was gonna say these these stars don't know it yet but we hope to
01:15:16.400collaborate with them a lot more this year before the panel we were like this is not this this is
01:15:23.860not going to be an hour and 15 minutes it's going to be 12 hours and they don't know it yet yeah
01:15:30.020it's going to be one year long and it's going to continue it's going to be a year of us learning
01:15:34.280from these people um we have so many more questions for you I did see um Sia and Alice
01:15:42.120both had thoughts to contribute on that question about the body so if you're okay to stay with us
01:15:48.060we would love to hear your thoughts and then we'll close out with a reading and never close out we
01:15:54.580will spiral out and spiral back together again but there's if you if you'll allow us Thea
01:15:59.280yeah I just to also add to what Eliza is saying about the temperaments about the elements is that
01:16:06.980it to me tied in so much to the to the first question about skeptics and like that part of
01:16:13.380that question is rooted in our worldview of today but in antiquity it was very much like that if
01:16:20.380there was an elemental imbalance that you would go to a practitioner who's also a doctor who also
01:16:25.820was well versed in astrology so that there was there was an acceptance like there was an acceptance
01:16:31.720like we just know this all works so we're going to use what we have and I think too like what's
01:16:38.740beautiful about what modernity like being here now is that we have all of that knowledge now
01:16:46.100with science and like we have we have so much we have so many tools and to me it's it's that sort
01:16:54.320of like um being able to to to bring balance that that ancient notion of bringing balance or when
01:17:03.840things are out of balance that really can you can enter if you want to enter astrology that way as
01:17:09.160well that you can kind of work to see how it maps onto your body based on transits that are even
01:17:14.380happening based on you know saturn going over your sun or something like that that feels like
01:17:20.840it's bringing about something chronic, you can engage with it that way. And that's also another
01:17:25.740way to get to know it. I mean, my, even just thinking about how, you know, one of my children
01:17:30.980has like a chronic thing that constantly reoccurs and, you know, the ruler of her first is right
01:17:37.060next to Pluto. And it's just like this constant sort of cyclical episodic thing that's always
01:17:42.900happening in her and just seeing how that manifests in their chart as well. But yeah,
01:17:49.180that that we can use this for body for mind for where however else we exist in this you know
01:17:55.960this mainframe that we're all just participating in
01:17:59.300I have experienced this without knowing I was experiencing it so I have so much more to go
01:18:08.140go home and read about um Alice will you take us home
01:18:13.620oh wow I'm so excited by what I'm hearing and just like spending time with all of you
01:18:21.300um I just had something really quick to share and uh it's just a short story uh like I guess
01:18:29.220I mean I'm still in relationship with these senior citizens that I've stopped doing like
01:18:34.460more formal work with and um like you know they're really interested in their bodies like
01:18:40.040and especially they're really interested in how to feel pleasure in their bodies too and one really
01:18:46.460simple thing that we did because I would talk to them about astrology all the time and uh like
01:18:53.160one really simple thing that we did was we made like a clock like a self-care clock and that was
01:18:58.980related to the five organs which are connected to the five planets like not the sun and moon the
01:19:05.500five planets. And, you know, it's like, I mean, you know, we ended up making it like a sundial
01:19:12.020so then they can put it outside and just see the shadow go around. So then they can know,
01:19:18.640oh yeah, it's kidney time, time to drink some water or something like that. So that's just a
01:19:24.460simple thing that you can do to map the astrology to your body. I know that's a really direct answer
01:19:32.460to the question I love it so much I'm gonna do that with my daughter she's gonna love that that's
01:19:38.620amazing thank you so all so much for everything you've given us in this brief moment this window
01:19:50.320in time together and thank you so much for your work you are out there helping us figure out what
01:20:01.760healing even fucking is um for the world and for ourselves and I will take pieces that you
01:20:10.880each gave today and give myself strength and use it in my work so very personally thank you0.87
01:20:19.120I've been touched by all of your writing as an individual I know everyone who's on this panel
01:20:25.240was touched by this moment together Amy do you want to say closing words and thank you and then
01:20:31.000I'll close this out with a blessing and a reading which we're taking directly from Alice Spark the
01:20:37.900Cat's post-colonial astrology yes so before the reading I actually wanted to reintroduce the
01:20:47.840candle I want to read you all a quote from Lolly Moon with your permission um it I read this and