Imbolc 2025： Future Histories Of Black Magic - Revolutionary Dreams w Lilith Dorsey, Loli Moon, Christena Cleveland, Zoe Flowers, Thea Anderson, and Dr Beverly
00:01:38.680So I've gathered this panel of brilliant witches together today to ask, what is your revolutionary dream?
00:01:47.300What does your revolution look like? How do you imagine a functional future? And who are your heroes of revolutionary work?
00:02:00.260I'm so excited to welcome back these creators of future Black history and present.
00:02:08.060Authors, artists, astrologers, scholars, teachers, magic makers, Lilith Dorsey, Lolly Moon, Christina Cleveland, Zoe Flowers, Thea Anderson, and the brilliant Dr. Beverly, all brilliant.
00:02:23.980thank you so much for joining me today to talk about our your revolutionary dreams
00:02:32.500and let's start with dr beverly um i think you might want to engage us with some poetry
00:02:41.820from nikki giovanni before we dive into our conversation i do i have always seen
00:02:50.920professor giovanni as a revolutionary as one of my greatest role models i discovered her
00:03:04.740when i was in college and i discovered this book this is my first book by her you can see it's in
00:03:12.800it's in pieces. It's, it's, it's my house. And it's called my house, Nikki Giovanni.
00:03:22.040It compiles a series of some of her earliest poetry. Most of these poems come from the 70s.
00:03:30.040This one that I'm going to read, that I think is particularly appropriate, is from January 7,
00:03:40.1801972 and this book of poetry was released in 83 and I bought it new and it's not new anymore
00:03:49.820so I read this poem in honor of Nikki Giovanni and it's called When I Die
00:04:01.440when I die I hope no one who has ever hurt me cries and if they cry I hope their eyes fall out0.98
00:04:13.580and a million maggots that have made up their brains crawl from the empty holes0.99
00:04:19.500and devour the flesh that covered the evil that passed itself off as a person that I probably0.90
00:04:27.760tried to love. When I die, I hope every worker in the National Security Council,0.98
00:04:35.960the Interpol, the FBI, CIA Foundation for the Development of Black Women, gets an extra bonus
00:04:43.500and maybe takes one day off and maybe even asks why they didn't work as hard for us
00:04:51.320as they did them but it always seems to be that way0.98
00:04:58.560please don't let them read nikki rosa maybe just let some black woman who called herself my friend0.60
00:05:09.080go around and collect each and every book and let some black man who said it was negative of me1.00
00:05:18.560to want him to be a man, collect every picture and poster and let them burn, throw acid on them,0.99
00:05:28.060shit on them, as they did me while I tried to live. And as soon as I die, I hope everyone1.00
00:05:40.420who loved me learns the meaning of my death which is a simple lesson. Don't do what you do very well
00:05:51.320very well and enjoy it. It scares white folks and makes black ones truly mad but I do hope someone1.00
00:06:04.440tells my son his mother liked little old ladies with their blue dresses and hats and gloves1.00
00:06:12.300that sitting by the window to watch the dawn come up is valid that smiling at an old man
00:06:20.900and petting a dog don't detract from manhood do somebody please tell him I knew all along
00:06:32.080that what would be will be but I wanted to be a new person and my rebirth was stifled not by the
00:06:45.660master but by a slave and if ever I touched a life I hope that life knows that I know
00:06:56.400that touching was and still is and will always be the true revolution.
00:07:09.840Brilliant. Excellent choice. Thank you, Dr. Beverly. Do you want to tell our listeners who
00:07:15.840maybe have missed you on the podcast in the past a little bit about who you are?
00:07:19.760Thank you very much. My name is Beverly Smith. I'm known in some circles as Dr. Beverly because I am a root worker in the hoodoo tradition.
00:07:31.540um hoodoo is not voodoo and many people do know that but some people still ask so just quickly
00:07:40.340voodoo is an initiatory religion that was uh created and is practiced in haiti and among
00:07:55.840among uh and of course there are voodoo practitioners in america and elsewhere but
00:08:02.180it originated in haiti hoodoo takes the ancestral memories that the captives brought with them
00:08:12.940to the new world and it is herbal magical lore it's the power and the energetics of herbs
00:08:25.680in manifestation and the captives were brought to the new world they learned to work with the
00:08:34.460plants that were there some of the plants they recognized from home some of the plants they had
00:08:40.620to be taught how to use it they were helped in many ways by some of the local native people
00:08:46.560and together they devised this system of hoodoo which is overwhelmingly african-american
00:08:55.660the vast practitioners of hoodoo are black christians i am not a christian i was however
00:09:06.520raised in the christian faith and so i understand that in all manifestation all of us who are
00:09:16.520energetic workers all of us who uh perhaps believe in manifestation some people call it magic some
00:09:25.160people call it conjuring. However you want to call it, we know that you just don't throw a couple
00:09:33.280herbs in a mojo bag and call it magic. You have to bring it. You have to manifest it. You have to
00:09:40.380work with those energies and bring it forth. And as well as many who were raised in the Black
00:09:49.060Christian traditions, I understand that calling upon the name of Jesus. I get that. I understand
00:09:58.140how powerful that is to my own parents, my own grandparents, and those who came before me.
00:10:06.460So I approach hoodoo in a different way, using a different source for my power, because I've come
00:10:15.380to understand that when i'm aligned with the powers of the universe i am god when i am backed
00:10:23.600by my ancestors i understand that i am god if i am a child of god slash goddess then i am a young
00:10:33.320god young goddess in the making and that is the the that's the fountain of power for which i fuel
00:10:43.840my manifestations but i am a root worker and root workers are known to prescribe
00:10:50.620uh different uh roots for your conditions who do is about practical who do is about how do i
00:10:58.780how do i pay my rent this this this this month how do i keep uh my man from straying how do i keep
00:11:07.000my kids uh safe how do i uh continue to uh grow and to live in this world that in many ways wants
00:11:20.920to thwart me so we provide different prescriptions of different herbal combinations for baths for
00:11:30.540tinctures for uh mojo bags oh the list goes on and on and uh we believe that those herbs through
00:11:39.660their innate divine given power bring the manifestation that we seek so in a nutshell as me
00:11:47.980just you know a god on earth speaking of speaking of gods or god author of god is a black woman
00:12:02.600it's right there it is um christina cleveland um tell us a bit about who you are and then please0.58
00:12:11.420tell us about the revolutionary dream of restorative justice and the black madonna
00:12:18.200hi hi oh thank you hello everyone um can i go backwards can i tell the dream first and then
00:12:28.180backwards forwards around the bend that feels more alive um so i'm uh my revolutionary dream
00:12:39.160is for ease i want a revolution that comes without us wearing ourselves out
00:12:47.080i dream of a revolution that is like dr beverly said already the force that that play we're just
00:12:59.460dropping into it and receiving and flowing. I've been living, living in 1790s Haiti for the last
00:13:11.680six months because I've been learning all about how the Black Madonna was a part of the Haitian
00:13:18.000Revolution and empowered it. And one of the things that's really coming up for me is so many people
00:13:25.080who were revolution, who are the leaders of that revolution, whether they are household names or
00:13:29.500not, were given, they were given names from the Black Madonna, personal names, like nicknames,
00:13:39.520names of endearment. And I say given, but they really took them. They just, they knew that was
00:13:45.180their birthright. And oftentimes they would strategize. And then when people would say,
00:13:50.820how do you know we're supposed to do this or that in terms of military strategy? They'd be like,
00:13:56.040well, the Black Madonna told me it. I'm like her godson. So just that sense of ownership and being
00:14:03.740owned, but with consent. And so I want everyone to have nicknames from the divine. I want everyone
00:14:12.660to know that they're sought after and cherished and called and that the work that they're doing
00:14:19.780in the revolution is divinely ordained and supported and innovated um and I want there
00:14:27.260to be lots and lots and lots of rest particularly for people in who identify as women um and
00:14:35.940non-binary folks because um yeah we're the ones who are the mules behind the revolution
00:14:42.440yet we rarely ever get the credit um so that's my dream
00:14:49.440and um a lot of my dreams come from stories about the black madonna and so i right now i'm really0.99
00:14:57.740just living in the energy of our lady of fuck around and find out the black god of paris who0.99
00:15:03.820goes around and takes abusers and handles them on behalf of the people who have been abused i'm1.00
00:15:11.380thinking a lot about she who cherishes our hot mess the black madonna of vc france who doesn't0.58
00:15:17.300need us to have all the answers or do everything perfectly we get to be on a learning curve even0.93
00:15:22.220as we resist it's okay to acknowledge that we aren't like didn't walk out of the womb quoting
00:15:29.500mickey giovanni you know like we're on a journey ourselves we're awakening ourselves and um it's
00:15:36.300okay. And I'm also thinking a lot about Our Lady of the Side-Eye, the Black Madonna of this little0.50
00:15:44.160tiny region of France who has been hearing particularly Black women's cries in the face
00:15:52.780of colonialism for 900 years now. So yeah, calling on these archetypes to guide and to bring us into
00:16:02.040slope so that's me it's been a lot of time thinking about what the black madonna is up to
00:16:06.880particularly in the african diaspora and i'm writing a lot about her now in cuba haiti and
00:16:14.500brazil so lots of good time and she's she's an arisha too so they're all the things
00:16:22.120thank you so much for being here christina and bringing that energy of ease everyone
00:16:30.280is so and again that that's kind of the this idea of like the rhetoric of revolution people
00:16:37.700are talking a lot of shit about revolution but like what what's the practical um route
00:16:45.360to revolution and to and to build rest and ease into that i think it's the the one thing that's0.98
00:16:52.060gonna make a sustainable revolution right yeah yeah i mean it's like i feel like the whole point
00:17:01.080of colonialism is to just wear us out just have us turning like running around in circles chasing
00:17:05.900our tails and um there's literally a story about a black madonna in belgium who when a city a
00:17:12.640village was under siege by a colonial enemy um she walked out of the church in the village to
00:17:20.000the ramparts around the you know the the walls of the city and was catching cannonballs with her
00:17:26.200hands and that idea of you know there is a divine being that is battling with us and for us and so
00:17:36.940how could we just like get in like some of the some of the cannonballs were just like dropping0.87
00:17:41.680into the folds of her dress you know she's just she's just catching them all while breastfeeding0.98
00:17:45.640her child at the same time like she's literally a virgo lactan so like she's one of the two black0.98
00:17:50.900madonna's where her boob is out and she is breastfeeding and she's also catching cannonballs0.95
00:17:54.620and so like how do i take that energy like how do i do how do i how do i do revolutionary acts0.74
00:18:00.400from that space of there's already a the universe is already catching cannonballs how do i just get
00:18:07.540into that rather than think i have to be up there on the ramparts all by myself just like a martyr
00:18:12.520and for who and so yeah those stories are powerful they're you know these these like
00:18:20.840spirit i mean spiritual imagination is just so powerful and i want to thank you too for giving
00:18:27.720me in a past conversation that we had and it's in your book about this like how how your god or the
00:18:33.620you know um goddess or whatever you prefer um is is welcoming of our sacred mess and i have i have
00:18:41.500said that to myself so many times when I'm in that place. Like, the universe accepts my sacred
00:18:48.580mess. And something else that really stuck with me, Lolly Moon, when you were on the show before,
00:18:55.480you said that part of how you use astrology is to discover your role, or how we can use
00:19:03.100astrology is to discover our role in the revolution. And I keep that with me too,
00:19:08.840because you know we're not all going to be on the ramparts some of us are going to be washing the
00:19:13.340dishes you know the revolution will not be televised as gil scott heron said but it will
00:19:18.220be babysat it will be fed all of these things so lolly moon how are you who are you today what's
00:19:25.560your revolutionary dream oh my gosh um i am lolly moon going through her saturn return so lolly moon's
00:19:33.200been going through intense transformations and all types of radical revolutionary things um
00:19:40.060everything Christina shared about the Black Madonna really just made my heart so warm because
00:19:45.040for the past year and a half I have been building a shrine to the Black Madonna
00:19:48.560and have been so attracted to just her energy and just really embracing all of the warmth and
00:19:54.600protection she has been bringing me so my revolution when I first came to Missing Witches
00:20:00.280was very hot, you know, snap, crackle, pop, um, was the energy I was bringing to the table.
00:20:07.060And, you know, I am still her, there is still that sharpening of the machetes, but my understanding
00:20:13.980of the revolution has shifted a lot as well, because so much has happened too. So I am still
00:20:20.260a natural mystic. I am still offering all the astrology astro tea. Um, I am still guiding
00:20:27.480mystics which is healers all over to empower themselves with their own astrology knowing how
00:20:33.240to reach hearts not just their own charge and studying but understanding how to work with the
00:20:37.980planetary hours and being really intentional when communicating with the universe and how
00:20:44.100working with the planetary hours can really magnify that um i believe that the more intentions
00:20:50.440and prayer we put out into the universe the stronger we are making our auric field and so
00:20:54.900if you follow planetary hours there's at least five hours in the day dedicated to that particular
00:20:59.320planet that rules that day so if you align your intentions and prayers with those hours you are
00:21:05.300really working some serious magic you know so my revolutionary dream now looks like a regulated0.64
00:21:13.240nervous system for the mystics the witches um all people of color um my revolution looks like
00:21:21.580freedom of pollution that is you know this capitalistic patriarchal pre and also post0.76
00:21:28.320apocalyptic world that we are in um my revolution now looks like slow mornings and gentle evenings
00:21:35.400and it's a timeline where i completely own my time and where the collective we completely own
00:21:41.100our time and we can spend that time freely you know with our community building rebuilding
00:21:46.400nurturing the revolution won't always be televised but it will be nurtured you know and it will
00:21:52.420transcend and ascend and that's how it's going to make it through to the end that's all it's going
00:21:56.340to be and more importantly my revolution looks like the unconditional love of all the great
00:22:02.760mothers and that's where i'm sitting right now thank you so much for coming today lolly it's
00:22:10.320really great to see you i'm so happy to be here i actually was told um there was a wish that
00:22:16.800that connected with me last month and they had mentioned that i was in y'all's book um you all
00:22:23.320quoted for the for a new moon and i was like oh my goodness and it was exactly what we were talking
00:22:27.420about about the revolution and empowering others to know like listen even just doing this with this
00:22:33.740skill this obsession of astrology and whatever like you can use that to really really empower
00:22:39.200yourself you know it goes beyond the as I call it the fast food astrology right like I'm a Capricorn
00:22:47.060so I'm I'm always late like yeah okay that's fine I wear all black and I'm kind of you know
00:22:53.500witchy with a capital b like okay and you also are ruled by Saturn you can also use a scythe you can
00:22:59.660also and Thea Thea Anderson your approach is a bit to astrology is a bit different too you
00:23:08.960use astrology to inform your study of history so hi Thea Anderson amazing so good to see you
00:23:18.100tell us who are you today and what is your revolutionary dream
00:23:22.280hi first of all hi witches hi Lily I love I love when there's another astrologer on here
00:23:31.200it gives me like goosebumps happy saturday return thank you um dr beverly christina like
00:23:40.320everybody has shared such beautiful wisdom i think the dream that i have
00:23:47.140really feels like our creative imagination right that we all get to participate in this shared
00:23:55.260consciousness. And for me, that looks like sometimes going back into history, sometimes
00:24:05.740waking up early to write fiction, sometimes doing readings with people, the sense of being
00:24:14.820closer to presence or the ability to sort of surrender into presence. I've got so many books
00:24:24.460next to me also too there's this theme of time right like I've got a book on time blocking time
00:24:29.920wars focus like I really being intentional about where I give my time and my attention attention
00:24:39.640is currency and if it is standing looking on the outside waiting for something to happen in some
00:24:45.800future then I can never be with what is um I feel like blessed that we get to participate in this0.93
00:24:54.620and it's also real as shit and I think both of those that's like where the knife is right like
00:25:01.540it's it's life or death quite literally but it's also play and it's also joy and I think0.97
00:25:10.080what I find, what feels revolutionary is to remember that and to bring that into every space,
00:25:17.260whether or not it feels like it's needed or called for or appropriate. I love this idea of
00:25:22.700God is our sacred mass, our virgin or sacred mass, like the ability to, our humanness
00:25:29.020is actually the revolution, right? That we get to put our humanness in it and that
00:25:34.580capitalism and patriarchy and I got to make money and I got to hustle and I got to be
00:25:41.020Black excellence, which was a lie. You can just be you. That we can take it all back. We can take0.93
00:25:51.540our time back. We can take our attention back. We can be strategic as hell and also deeply loving
00:25:58.860and caring and community focused. And I'm just reminded of it every time I step into a space
00:26:05.780like this, that this is what the real is. And I'm just, I'm grateful to be able to recognize that.
00:26:18.400I was looking at Nikki Giovanni's chart while Dr. Beverly were reading that quote, and Nikki had
00:26:25.580moon conjunct Pluto. And I love this idea about when I die, right? Moon conjunct Lord of the
00:26:32.360underworld. When I die, you better come correct. And if you're crying, you need to have shown up0.95
00:26:38.760for me in my life in this kind of way. So I just wanted to also put that little gem here because
00:26:44.060I was like, oh, yes, speak. Thank you, Thea. That is a gem. Also coming correct is Lilith
00:26:55.380Dorsey, coming correct, as always. Hi, Lilith. It's so great to be in a circle with you again
00:27:01.500and to see you again. How are you? Who are you? What is your revolutionary dream?
00:27:09.240Oh my gosh, I have so many revolutionary dreams. And I want to thank you for letting me be here
00:27:15.480with all these amazing people. Today, there's so much wisdom. And I think my revolutionary
00:27:22.300dream is knowledge. You know, I'm not sure how many people listening or how many of you know me,
00:27:28.620but I am Lilith. And I don't mean that in an arrogant, whatever kind of way. My parents named
00:27:35.220me Lilith. So I suppose there was always this kind of valorization of the sacred feminine and
00:27:41.340a sacred feminine that's not white. I have a friend that runs the Not White Collective. So0.71
00:27:46.520I'm very happy to be not white and to honor that in myself every day.0.82
00:27:54.460And I think that, you know, I am an author.0.95
00:28:13.340And everybody in the audience is pointing to me because when I started in 1987, there was nobody there that looked like me and there was nobody there that wanted to hear me. And that's pretty much, I think, antithetical to what we need for the revolution, right?
00:28:30.720People keep saying, listen to black women. And I wouldn't be where I was today without black women. If I have a revolutionary shero, it's Zora Neale Hurston. I heard Christina talking about us being the mule. She was the first woman who said we were the mule of the world. And we are. There's so many burdens. There's so many.1.00
00:28:51.600I love that image of the breastfeeding and catching cannonballs, because let me tell you, I breastfed and caught cannonballs for a very long time, and it wasn't easy, and I continue to do it.
00:29:03.760So my revolution for me personally is with knowledge.
00:29:08.400I'm very honored of all the things I've done except for my girls.
00:29:12.820The thing I'm most happy about and I think really makes a difference is my community garden here in New Orleans.
00:29:19.420I am a voodoo priestess, not a voodoo priestess, Dr. Beverly. I also have initiations in Haitian
00:29:26.640voodoo and santo. And for me, just honoring the land and honoring what we got from the land,
00:29:33.300our ancestors who worked that land, all the grandmothers that we forgot that had to work
00:29:39.100that land to provide. And even if we don't know how to do it now, we know that it was done for us.
00:29:45.520And I think that this concept that we can have the knowledge of really how to take care of ourselves on a deep level to nourish not just our body, but our soul and our mind and our community, that's where the seed of the revolution is going to be.
00:30:00.900And for me, it's going to be a chocolate revolution because that's what we need.
00:30:05.820A little chocolate city, a little parliament funkadelic.
00:30:08.980I think um Lilith I think like the the breadth of your educational background and you're so
00:30:16.420prolific I think that that that's like so much a part of your revolutionary work is just to keep
00:30:21.940producing films and books you said tarot every which way your latest book is your eighth book
00:30:29.240like thank you thank you for just continuing continuing and I'm pointing to Zoe one of
00:30:38.760Zoe Flowers's books here the poet laureate of the missing witches coven as we call her sometimes
00:30:45.040hi Zoe Flowers how are you who are you tell me about your revolutionary dream yeah I'm gonna
00:30:54.540mix things up too like somebody else did um so I I wanted to pull a little do a little pull for
00:31:02.080this conversation and the first thing I got was the wheel of fortune which I think is very um
00:31:08.460apropos to this conversation I think right like changes and fated events and destiny and all of
00:31:18.940those things feels very real to me and I think I want to yeah this revolutionary dream this
00:31:24.540revolutionary reality I want to say that I'm co-creating also got the king of swords so that
00:31:30.560to me feels like just being very much in charge of my own ideas my thoughts and things like that
00:31:35.520Eight of Wands, communication coming in quickly from spirit and then ending with justice.
00:31:41.820So I feel that that is the revolutionary dream reality that I'm attempting to live into.
00:31:50.080I just, I feel like for me personally, this is super accurate, even though sometimes it
00:31:55.220feels like the communication is coming slower than I want.
00:31:59.140Um, so yeah, the, the thing that I've been musing on, um, I had a reading and ancestral reading
00:32:09.260this weekend with the amazing medium out of New Orleans and my ancestors came through and said,
00:32:16.640they just want me to live and be. So I was like, check, that's what I'm going to attempt to do.
00:32:23.860And, you know, Amy, we've been having this conversation about joy and like my right to joy. I've left the United States for a while. I don't want to say too much on the phone, but I'm not in the States, right?
00:32:43.480And so I'm experiencing a sense of peace and I've had feelings about that.
00:33:32.980I was teaching as a response to capitalism.
00:33:36.580And I would say that this is a response to capitalism. This is a response to this. This is a response to that. And lately I've been like, maybe I need to change that. Like, maybe I need to change this response to white supremacy all the time and teach it to people in a different way.
00:33:58.140maybe it's just about them being and maybe us being is a revolutionary because I do believe
00:34:05.960they want us to stay tired, powerless all the time, joyless, woeful. Um, so yeah, those are
00:34:15.420the things I'm kind of musing on, um, as I sit here and it just keeps snowing. Can I comment
00:34:22.680on that too, Zoe? Because that really resonates with me so much. I think we have a right to not
00:34:30.520just joy, but we have a right to self-determination that's not a response to colonialism. We have a
00:34:38.440right to imagine outside of that entire construct. And I was recently listening to a lecture by Dr.
00:34:48.160who some of you all might know is a philosopher and activist and he was talking about how like
00:34:54.580the term liberation is not even a useful term because it's too legible to the plantation
00:35:00.480the plantation understands that liberation is the opposite of the plantation
00:35:05.900so he said our ancestors went into fugivity they didn't go into liberation like what they went into
00:35:12.860wasn't even legible to the plantation it was a whole other thing and I was listening to that
00:35:18.960doing yoga and of course my new book is called Our Lady of Liberation so I'm like dang it
00:35:23.600but he's but I think I think we can have both and right because like but but I appreciate his point
00:35:31.920right that you know we're being invited our ancestors had to move into an unknown it wasn't
00:35:39.940What they really moved into wasn't unknown.
00:35:42.200It was not understandable or legible to the plantation.
00:40:42.660If you are ethical, if you can walk into your home
00:40:48.580at the end of the night with pride, with your head held up, knowing that before God,
00:40:55.020whoever your God is, before God and your ancestors, you have been true to yourself.
00:41:02.700You've been true to your own sense of integrity, been true to your own ethics. Then you will be
00:41:09.680comfortable dealing with a situation when it needs to be dealt with. All right. I have no
00:41:17.000problem blessing I have no problem helping I have no problem manifesting good to come to someone
00:41:25.320however if they deserve it I have no problems with laying a trick upon them about you know0.94
00:41:38.200because it's called fuck around and find out. So I have no problem with that. How I am evolving0.98
00:41:47.200is I'm beginning to feel as my sisters here today are feeling. I wanted to bring the sword
00:41:55.760and I wanted to bring the lightning and I wanted to bring the heavy acts of justice down on all1.00
00:42:03.680of these bastards. But I'm beginning to understand that revolution can come from within, that0.99
00:42:14.040revolution can be quiet, that revolution can be a sense of self that we give to those who come
00:42:25.720behind us. And everyone keeps using the word joy. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Let's reach
00:42:34.120for the joy. Because even if you, as I do, believe in reincarnation, what I do understand
00:42:44.200is that when I am in this incarnation, this is the one that matters. This is the one that matters.
00:42:52.320I have to bring joy and I have to bring truth. I have to be true to myself. I have to walk in my own truth. Liberation is to make free. We need to be free to feel ourselves. We need to be free to nurture our communities in the way that we want to nurture them.
00:43:15.160um someone earlier brought up rest oh my goodness there is a ted talk by dr sondra
00:43:27.380oh my goodness i believe she's sondra smith sondra smith and it's called rest is revolution
00:43:36.400rest is revolution and she talks about how and i believe christina mentioned this they want us
00:43:47.020tired they want us exhausted they want us um you know doing what we need to do while fighting the
00:43:54.660system i mean they want us to burn candles at both ends both figuratively and and and literally
00:44:01.380we need to rest we need to take care of ourselves we need to nurture our elders we need to raise up
00:44:11.040our children with a real sense of of purpose and a sense of purpose that we don't always fight
00:44:17.300against the man that sometimes it's not worth it I'm looking at this situation that we're dealing
00:44:24.520with today. And I'm realizing that a lot of damage can be done in the next four years. I'm
00:44:33.800just as shocked and dismayed and as heartbroken as everyone else that reproductive rights have
00:44:41.180been put on the chopping block. I can see voting rights going on the chopping block next. I can
00:44:47.160see all of this happening. And while I'm still, I still fervently believe in change. I just don't
00:44:57.580know if revolution as I have envisioned it in the past is even sensible anymore. I'm beginning to
00:45:11.640come to the conclusion that all of us who are adversely affected by what is going on right now
00:45:23.960all of us who are adversely affected need to take care of ourselves and take care of each other
00:45:30.140we need to dig deep and ask ourselves what are our priorities right now especially what are
00:45:38.600our priorities in making it through the next several years because things are going to get
00:45:46.060bad i cannot predict in which ways are going to go set go go sideways but things are going to get
00:45:52.380gnarly and and we need to have a strong foundation in what our priorities are and what we love and
00:46:03.440what we cherish and what we want to bring forward. And I think that's really important. And I think
00:46:09.460we have to guard our peace. I think we have to guard our tranquility. I think we have to guard
00:46:16.580our mental health. And I think all of that comes into knowing what our boundaries are,
00:46:26.900knowing what our priorities are and knowing what our abilities are and knowing what what are
00:46:35.020how far we can take those things let's not burn ourselves out anymore let's not I mean what did
00:46:44.820Malcolm X say Malcolm X said something to the effect I'm it's not going to be a direct quote
00:46:49.920But something to the effect of the Black woman is the least respected person in America.
00:46:58.920He may have said she's the most disrespected person in America.0.93
00:47:16.640When you look at the dog whistles around this last election, how people actually could fix their mouth to say that one candidate had a low IQ, I don't care what you think of that candidate, what you may think, have thought of that candidate, or how you voted.
00:47:36.780The point is, California has one of the toughest, the toughest law board tests in the country.
00:47:49.080And people say, oh, affirmative action this and affirmative action that.0.64
00:47:54.820Affirmative action might get you into that program.
00:48:00.340Affirmative action doesn't take the tests for you.
00:48:02.940okay and so i know i'm hearing all of the dog whistles i'm seeing all the bad old days slipping
00:48:11.820back all right i'm old enough to remember the tail end of the really bad old days i'm that
00:48:20.540last group of kids that was forcibly bust and i remember how shitty those days were well i can see
00:48:29.840just sliding back into some of that. So right now, revolution for us, for Black people, for people0.79
00:48:37.300who are oppressed right now, revolution should look like self-care. Revolution should look like
00:48:45.120do what you need to do to get enough to eat, to get enough rest, to know how to say no,
00:48:52.060To know how to stand up and be accountable when you say yes. And remember, we have to honor our elders. We have to consult our ancestors. And we have to raise up the next generation to understand where we have come from is important. Where we are going is important. But let's try to live more now in this time, in the present.
00:49:22.060So that's my New Year's resolution, man.
00:49:28.860And day by day, I want to ask the astrologers,
00:49:32.640because Dr. Beverly, you talked about reassessing your priorities.
00:49:39.060Astrologers, based on the 2025 charts,
00:49:45.540tell me what do you think that the priorities should be?
00:49:52.060thea do you want to go first yeah i'll stumble forward is how you know what i'm about to say
00:50:01.020so i i think i have thought a lot about this year and the priorities if i were like to
00:50:10.660huddle up all my activist friends and we we got to be strategic i'd be like
00:50:16.620say like protect yourself from the assault on your senses so a couple of things we've um we
00:50:25.080have pluto now in aquarius second half of the year uranus will dip into gemini so we've got
00:50:30.380like an air sign configuration and that's a scramble of data information hot takes points
00:50:37.860of view let's dismantle dismantle 12 laws in one and a half days that's all of that kind of uh
00:50:45.080frenetic energy coming through. I was reading an article, by the way, yesterday on New York Times
00:50:50.980that said that this tactic is also Stephen Miller, who was chief of staff for Trump, said this is
00:50:56.480called flood the zone tactic. And so what I'm thinking about what it means that we have people
00:51:02.240in the highest office of our country deliberately trying to flood the zone and what it means to get
00:51:07.680to higher ground. That's what I've been thinking about recently. And higher ground might be the
00:51:13.900sort of strategy that what I would want people to know find the thing for the first half of the year
00:51:19.160as we were in a Mars retrograde we go through Venus retrograde then we've got eclipse season
00:51:24.060it is like things are going to be revealed we know eclipses throughout history have been huge
00:51:30.700points of revelation like oh shit I didn't know that was lurking behind that in that dark corner
00:51:37.240and now it's here so things will be revealed things will have to be contended with reckoned0.56
00:51:41.800with um i feel like it's like have the thing that prevents your senses from always being
00:51:47.300pulled in many different directions and then part two of the year especially summer to the fall when
00:51:52.540we have these big outer planetary shifts that the strategy there is to really align yourself with
00:51:59.240like sort of a new whatever we did four years ago 10 years ago we're doing way different now
00:52:05.940We're doing outer planets into fire and air signs. And so there's a much more, I love this idea of not responding to capitalism, which would be more of an earth water configuration, that there's an active way of putting our stake in the ground, daring to imagine something new and following that as a collective, as a community.
00:52:32.180So if people want to flood our zones with all this kind of nonsense, that we're okay, that we're not doing that game, because that's an old game, and where we said it's quite boring, and so that we could do something new and different.
00:52:48.040And I feel like that's the second half of 2025.
00:56:09.560So I really need to not do that reactionary thing that we're talking about of like, that capitalist brainwashing urgency of like, don't think, just go and blah. But this is that moment of the year where we can take some time to strategize, like several of you have used this word strategize.
00:56:31.140And I think that that's so important. We're so reactionary now. Social media doesn't help. Obviously, the state of the world isn't helping. But we need to do that like mourning, grieving, thinking, learning from the past, and then applying that to how we strategize creating our next priorities, right?
00:56:53.400Yeah. I also want to talk to Lilith and Zoe, you're both filmmakers. And I want to know, personally, for me, what is the role of creativity in our strategies or in our revolutionary dreams? Lilith, can you start?
00:57:17.640I think I actually even have a transition.
00:57:21.120So much of what everybody's been talking about to me has to be this kind of transformation.
00:57:27.540You know, and my first big documentary was on trans, T-R-A and C-E formation, so that
00:57:33.240there's a way in which we can enter into this liminal, powerful, initiatory, transformational0.63
00:57:40.800state that gets us to where we need to be.
00:57:43.480You know, and a lot of what I heard these lovely people on the panel talking about was that moment where we imagine things better than they can possibly be, you know, and for us in Haitian Vodou, that's the domain primarily of Aidoedo, which is the serpent and the rainbow story that everybody knows.
00:58:01.140So we have this transformation from being enslaved and taken from Africa in the new world and blossoming into this rainbow of something different here, for better, worse, all these things that came with it.
00:58:14.600It really was a rainbow because we wouldn't be sitting here talking about it today.0.85
00:58:19.380As much as we don't want to have lived through the storm, we did live through that storm.
00:58:24.040And through our creativity, we can come together now and through these things that we didn't necessarily maybe have access to before, we can get our creative works out there. And that's how people learn, really. Like as much as I want to, you know, when my grandmother's time to get hit with the ruler, this is the story she used to tell me, right? You don't know it. Boom, boom. But that to me is never how I learned. And I don't think that's how most people learn.
00:58:49.160And most people learn by being able to see the beauty and also being able to believe it.
00:58:53.980And if we don't take time to heal our pain, if we don't take time to deal with all these traumas and all these transformations and changes that are going on, we're not going to be able to believe that there's a rainbow coming tomorrow.
00:59:05.560And that's what I think is the most important thing.
00:59:08.040So any kind of creative acts we can do, that also is an act of revolution, right?
00:59:13.560Because we're choosing not to focus on, oh, my gosh, this horrible thing that's happening, and make something beautiful that helps us all heal and move forward and be able to act in a positive way.
00:59:29.580And in your latest book, Tarot, Every Witch Way, you mention mysticism and the power of the extreme.
00:59:39.580Can you talk about that a little bit? And then, Zoe, if you can jump in with your take on creativity as a way to strategize priority.
00:59:47.660I mean, I think if I have a theory about magic or about revolution or about filmmaking, it really does sort of embrace this shock value.
00:59:57.560You know, I'm a big fan of Hodorowsky. I'm a big fan. We just did a tribute episode on my show for David Lynch.
01:00:03.100These things that are so shocking that we can't get there any other way.
01:00:08.220and and my favorite piece from hodorowsky he talks about when you go to an interview or something
01:00:12.880that's difficult you should put raw meat in your pocket and because that's going to freak you out
01:00:17.540and shock you into a different space so you're like you're not going to be thinking about oh
01:00:20.900i'm so nervous i have meat in my pocket but he says if you don't want to put meat in your pocket
01:00:25.380you could use lavender which i thought was hilarious right like okay maybe i don't want
01:00:30.700this nasty bloody meat i'll have some nice scented smelling lavender but there's this way in which
01:00:35.820we're shocking ourselves out of our comfort zone again because that's where the magic happens that's
01:00:40.400where the transformation happens so for me that life is going to shock you anyway and i apologize
01:00:46.060to my sister she's watching this because i used to hide in the closet and jump out and go expect
01:00:50.820the unexpected because there's so this is what i thought was life training but there's so much in
01:00:57.780life that's unexpected so i thought if i could teach my little sister something that would be
01:01:01.660good you don't know we grew up in new york city you don't know what's around that street corner
01:01:05.660You don't know what's going to pop out at you. You know, we grew up with a lot of mentally ill people. You don't know what's coming at you. So if you're able to react in that moment, that's going to be helpful to you. And I think that's also the plan about Hodorowsky's strategy for magic. If you don't know what's coming, you'll be able to react better. So that's pretty much the explanation of that.0.94
01:01:25.540um and um so amy you were saying the role of creativity and strategy
01:01:34.420that's what you're saying i'm still i'm still stuck on the astrology conversation
01:01:41.140i just i just want to put into the cauldron um for people who do rituals creating rituals
01:01:47.760around the things that lowly and thea were saying specifically this um around sorrow around grieving
01:01:55.520rituals for that in this beginning part of the year. And then other rituals specifically to help
01:02:02.620strategize perhaps herbs for clarity and things like that in the second part of the year. And
01:02:08.760perhaps that's a part of creativity. Perhaps that's about responding to the unexpected,
01:02:16.140to being flexible. I think when I think about film, one of the things that I've come to realize
01:02:22.000this film is one of the most successful means of propaganda that we've had and the ways that
01:02:34.340we have been indoctrinated into ways of thinking about who's the other, who's the good, who's the
01:02:40.820bad, this is what relationships look like, this is what war looks like, all of these things.
01:02:45.260And so I think as a writer, for me, it's about telling new stories, right? Like I want to reject being a mule. Like I don't ever want anybody to say that about me again. I don't ever want to like be like, I'm unprotected. I'm this, I'm that.
01:03:00.800For me, I want to create new stories, new quotes, new conversations. And maybe there's some alchemy in that. Putting our alchemy on film, putting our rituals on film. Maybe that's something that we're going to have to do and pass them around covertly.
01:03:22.640um maybe we're gonna have to put rituals on film and and pass them around to people like I don't
01:03:29.540know I don't know what's gonna happen um I think some things should be covert and I think some
01:03:34.420things should be overt so I think as as filmmakers and as creatives um you know understanding like
01:03:44.540in so many ways we're writing reality we're writing things into reality I I had this idea0.99
01:03:52.240a long time ago about this woman and women's rights were stricken down and people had to come
01:04:01.580to her to do all these things. And I didn't write it because I was like, I don't want to write this
01:04:05.560into reality. Now I'm like, oh shit, maybe that was a download, right? And there's been so many0.98
01:04:11.640stories like that in history. So it's like, on the one hand, I'm glad these things were written
01:04:17.420so people can be like oh yeah parable of the sower like yes obviously um we can act accordingly
01:04:24.580so I just think that um yeah we can write things into reality and we can reframe conversations and
01:04:32.140we can we can film our rituals and we can share them create new languages we can do all that as
01:04:39.040creatives I want to ask about downloads and I guess I'll open it to everyone did anyone receive
01:04:46.360any kind of download like this is a message that needs to come out in this conversation today
01:04:53.200and maybe I'll be even a little more specific to say that you know Audre Lorde said it was a waste0.89
01:05:00.740of time to talk to white women about racism because of our our I'm saying our as a white
01:05:06.940woman our defensiveness um what is a message that's coming through for you assuming that
01:05:17.820that white women are not listening with defensiveness but instead with an openness
01:05:22.880with a porousness to what you might have to say i can go yeah so i want to say a couple things
01:05:32.360one for people of color to understand and somebody had said this like when we're engaging
01:05:36.900in these conversations with white people, we're also engaging with their like DNA and their
01:05:41.980ancestors. And so we're not always fighting the person in front of us. We're also fighting like
01:05:46.620their own DNA. So I think that's interesting. And then the other thing I want to say is white
01:05:52.960people do your ancestor work. Like I, you know, it's like, I hear so many times, oh, I have a
01:05:58.220complicated history with my ancestors. Oh, I don't want y'all got to do the work. Like it's your
01:06:03.140ancestors that we are dealing with. So it's like, deal with your shame, do whatever you got to do,
01:06:10.100your sorrow, your grieving that Loli talked about, and then be about the business of working with
01:06:15.040your ancestors. That's all I got to say. I'd love to share too. So I, Amy, it's funny that you
01:06:23.100mentioned that because I forgot that the audience for Missing Witches is mostly white. I signed up
01:06:27.580for this because I wanted to talk to you all black women again, because I had fun last year1.00
01:06:31.180and i've been telling all my friends i'm gonna go talk to some black women today who are mystics0.70
01:06:34.640and healers and um so i i don't care what the audience i don't do anything for white women
01:06:40.560like literally nothing um it's a blessing to them to even be in on this conversation honestly they
01:06:46.300could send all of us venmos to even be here um to even be listening in um but i do want to comment
01:06:53.160on fia and lolly moon okay first of all y'all are amazing i feel like what you just shared with us
01:06:58.900is worth like i mean like seriously like that was wisdom that was like deep cosmic wisdom that you
01:07:06.020both shared and what we need for like literally medicine for today and like white women listening
01:07:11.280to this feel free to venmo both them a hundred dollars because like that was legit and what's
01:07:17.540so interesting to me is like i'm not as connected to the astrology world um just as as intimately as
01:07:24.120you are, but everything you said is like vibing exactly with what I think the Black Madonna has
01:07:29.420been saying to me. And so just to have that alignment feels so powerful because I've been
01:07:35.620thinking about that Black Madonna who like while breastfeeding was catching cannonballs. And my0.92
01:07:40.140first thought was before we even join in the fight, we build a monument. What are the cannonballs
01:07:47.100she's already caught for us? How can we gather the 40 of those and put them in our altar so we can
01:07:53.260be reminded, like these resilience practices, these resilience rituals, right? Before we even
01:08:01.500turn to the battle, what has she already done for us that we can ritualize and say every single day
01:08:09.460I can go to this and be like, here are the 40 cannonballs she has already caught for me before
01:08:13.860I even try to trust her to catch more. But then the second piece I was thinking of, step two,
01:08:18.800if you have to put it in a linear step is get that milk she's breastfeeding1.00
01:08:24.140she's breastfeeding while she's catching the cannonballs we don't even have to join in the
01:08:30.520fight we need to get healed we need to deal with our own trauma we need to adjust to whatever this0.83
01:08:36.180what the disillusionment the disappointment but both of those themes are for our well-being for
01:08:42.540our sustainability and I think that's the resistance to the patriarchy because patriarchy
01:08:47.840wants to have us you know um see what you what you mentioned that like flood the zone yeah a hundred
01:08:53.280percent constantly running constantly scrambling and if i'm sitting here building a monument with
01:08:59.480the cannonballs from the last war i'm not running but that energy is protecting me at the same time
01:09:06.960and if i'm focused on getting that milk you know my little nephew who's four he's always talking
01:09:11.940about milkies he calls breast milkies obsessed with milkies and what's interesting to me is he's
01:09:17.540no longer breastfeeding because his mom actually has two more kids younger than him so there's no
01:09:22.140milkies for him um but I have a bunch of nude images I've I hired this watercolorist to make
01:09:27.500a series of nude watercolors of me when I turned 40 so I have a bunch of these watercolors it's0.63
01:09:33.060like a shrine to myself above my bed and he comes in and is like auntie nina you're milkies you're
01:09:37.500milkies and he's like obsessed with my milkies right because he thinks that my milkies are
01:09:41.340available to him um but what what i love is like he does not need milk he does not need milk
01:09:49.520physically he needs milk because of the connection the spiritual the spiritual connection right he
01:09:55.560wants to be at his mom's milky at a four year as a four-year-old because it's the connection
01:10:02.460it's the sustainable it's the soothing it's the oh everything's gonna be okay he breastfeeding is
01:10:10.460not physically efficient it's just it's just a few calories at a time but but i love it because
01:10:18.100i'm thinking of this metaphor if i only get 10 calories at a time from the black madonna that
01:10:23.560means i have to keep coming back every hour just like babies do i can't just oh she doesn't she's0.87
01:10:28.660not passing out protein bars she's passing out milk so keep coming i i can't just take one and
01:10:35.780be like see you tomorrow I have to take a sip and be like I'll be back in 45 minutes because I need
01:10:41.280to be reminded again of your truth your wisdom your healing all those things and so I'm like
01:10:46.660let's just go back to infancy you know and that also gives us freedom to not be the mule
01:10:53.920like I'm just over here getting at my milkies my cosmic milkies and catching my and collecting
01:11:00.740the cannonballs that have already been caught and building a monument to them so that I can
01:11:05.680remind myself that I'm held I'm safe I'm protected I'm not a mule I have I can dream you know all
01:11:14.840these things and so why women you're welcome for listening to that you are welcome and I love this
01:11:24.140idea of like returning to infancy not to infantilize yourself but to do that thing that
01:11:30.100you're talking about of like i am allowed to receive i don't have to be in charge of this
01:11:35.940i don't have to be in charge of that i can take on that like breastfeeding energy of just being
01:11:42.480given the energy does anyone want to add something or or respond before we start sharing our venmos
01:11:49.780i um listen i i was around my my really good friend an herbalist her name is angela high
01:11:57.700Smith this morning and she said to me Thea nothing maybe she was quoting someone nothing in nature
01:12:03.340gives more than it receives and I was like please say it again and this idea of nourishment and going
01:12:11.780to where the nourishment is oof this is the revolutionary dream right
01:12:53.280all dollar and 10 cents i get from each book i mean i ain't getting rich
01:12:58.100yeah venmo venmo is better venmo is better right i'm little dorsey everywhere l-i-l-i-t-h
01:13:07.920dorsey um but yeah check out my website my youtube all of those things um there's lots
01:13:13.820of content you're right i am prolific there's 800 posts on my blog voodoo universe there's a
01:13:19.940lot out there and and my pronouns are they them and tired so hopefully that we can bring some of
01:13:28.740that restorative infant energy to your year this year i love it i love it i need it yeah may it be
01:13:36.060so dr beverly what's your venmo okay my venmo is my uh burning man name they call me miss jackson
01:13:47.220That's a long story. All right. But it's at, and this is all one word, Miss Jackson, if ya nasty, Miss Jackson, if YA nasty. That's my Venmo handle. All right. Thank you.
01:14:06.860thank you oh you're like took a big breath in and then it just became a smile which is also
01:14:16.720a message to the universe lolly moon how can these people pay you to be who you are
01:14:23.640well you can find me on instagram while it's still available for free you know
01:14:30.360use the internet while it's still free that's a message um you can find me on instagram at
01:14:35.160mystic medicine you can find me privately sharing information about the planetary hours and all
01:14:41.020things um the craft um through patreon.com forward slash lowly moon that is where i have
01:14:48.260the mystic mother ship which is a open portal for the black madonna where all of her wisdom
01:14:53.420is poured into me important to all the mystics that connect with me there and thank you in advance
01:14:57.440um for me uh i'm on instagram at the astrology um i am one third of a podcast called down to
01:15:16.560astro please check it out and book a reading with me i give those typically on fridays um but also
01:15:26.440support the work I have a um I know this isn't quite what you asked for you asked for Venmo but
01:15:33.420support the work which is um I have a piece that's out in the Celestial Arts Education Library
01:15:39.200Institute they have a journal and I've written uh a piece that's only in hard copy and it's about
01:15:45.880the astrology of convict leasing where I grew up in Texas so Sugar Land Texas specifically
01:15:51.560and i want to share more of that work um yeah christina cleveland practitioners yeah
01:16:00.360christina sorry i was trying to join loving moon's patreon
01:16:06.560i realized it's m-u-v-a that's why i was like okay in mother ship okay cool i'm there i found it
01:16:14.600um so i'm christina yeah so uh yeah i have patreon too we're actually like doing a series this year
01:16:20.640on um restoring justice with the black madonna and um so yeah come on join me at patreon um
01:16:28.040and i'm yeah that'll go in those show notes i'm guessing so yeah it's just patreon
01:16:33.540at cs cleave cs cleave is how you can find me um and also if you are um available in april and may
01:16:42.180i'm taking people to the black madonna's of paris and we still have a couple spots left um we're
01:16:47.280doing a trip just for black folks that's april 28th through may 4th and then we're doing a trip0.99
01:16:52.720for people of all races from may 7th through 13th and we're going to go see our lady of fuck around0.99
01:16:57.600and find out we're going to see our lady of miracles who's the black madonna that joan of0.97
01:17:01.500arc was deeply devoted to we're also going to see our lady of peace and lastly we're going to see
01:17:08.800oh the our lady of the underworld are and so um it's super fun uh we went last year and had a
01:17:15.300blast and so we're doing it and this year it's like yeah just paris plus black madonna plus
01:17:19.960beautiful people can't lose um so yeah those are some ways to connect i also have a monthly black
01:17:26.280madonna community circle that's on zoom and free open to everybody uh that's super fun you can go
01:17:32.160to my website christinacleveland.com to get connected to that group as well and we're
01:17:38.000starting a black madonna school this year so stay just get on my email list and you'll learn all
01:17:42.260about how to get free with a black madonna and others and when when is your next book coming out
01:17:49.060uh summer 2026 did you say summer yeah summer 2026 yeah yeah so we'll keep our eyes open for
01:17:57.520that and you'll come back on the show to talk more that would be super fun yeah about liberation or
01:18:03.000whatever i'm calling it in the summer of 2026 title title tbd yeah i mean it's always tbd anyway
01:18:12.640as you know like i'm like in my head this is what it is but then marketing's like that's not what it
01:18:17.420is and i do want to say zoe flowers just um lost an opportunity because um di is being ravaged0.98
01:18:29.320um in the united states so holler at your venmo zoe flowers because fuck's sake yeah0.95
01:18:38.700that happened um so my venmo is um soul requirements and it's at s-o-u-dash-r-e-q-u-i-dash-one0.92
01:18:51.500um i'm still on instagram for the time being and it's just i am zoe flowers just i the letter a-m
01:18:58.160Zoe Flowers. And I, because of that federal cut, um, my principles of ritual class that I was
01:19:05.600going to roll out on February 1st, it's pushed back until March now. And my intuitive tarot
01:19:10.660class, cause I have to cram six months of work, um, to the government by next month. So more time
01:19:17.660for people, if you want to sign up for my tarot class or my, um, principles of ritual class,
01:19:22.860that'll be coming out in March, so. Thank you all so much. I know a bunch of you have hard outs
01:19:29.180like right now, so I'm not going to ramble on too much, but I just do, I want to say thank you so
01:19:35.000much. I hope that this will be like a fruitful conversation for the seven of you, six of you
01:19:42.220going forward without me. And I do, of course, encourage you to connect with each other. You
01:19:49.860definitely don't need me as a liaison but i am so happy to have been able to facilitate some of you1.00
01:19:55.300meeting each other again celebrate black history by fucking paying black women let's just leave it1.00
01:20:02.100at that and and thank you all and bless it fucking be thank you you must be a witch if you want to1.00
01:20:14.860support the Missing Witches project, join the coven, find out how at missingwitches.com,0.98
01:20:20.620or buy our books, New Moon Magic and Missing Witches, and check out our deck of oracles,