00:00:18.860Just a reminder that May 31st is the last day to join our reparations fundraiser,
00:00:24.200so if you're inspired by today's guest, consider making a donation to Blackbird Medicine.
00:00:30.000Every year, we at Missing Witches and our coven and our extended witch community spend the month of May raising money for Indigenous support orgs, especially the Native Women's Shelter of Montreal, and gathering together with magical friends, like today, for conversations about Indigenous futures.
00:00:49.060here's a quick rundown of how our fundraiser works one make a donation of ten dollars or
00:00:55.260more to your local native women's shelter or indigenous support organization or donate to
00:01:01.180the native women's shelter of montreal two take a screenshot of your receipt and email it to
00:01:07.020missingwitches at gmail.com with the subject line reparation three be entered to win fabulous
00:01:14.460prizes donated by luminaries of the witch community, or automatically receive a coupon
00:01:21.720code for a discount from your next purchase at one of our favorite witchy businesses, House Witch.
00:01:28.400As always, Risa and I will be contributing our profits for the month of May to support the
00:01:33.700Native Women's Shelter of Montreal. In addition, once again, we're asking our community to join us
00:05:21.020This fundraiser is an experiment, so if you think it's a cool idea, please help us make it successful
00:05:29.000by making a small reparation to First Nations women who have been systematically marginalized
00:05:35.300and disenfranchised, both socially and economically. Let's raise some real money,
00:05:43.540make real change, and be blown away by what we can do when we work together.
00:05:48.560If you're inspired by today's guest, consider making a donation to Blackbird Medicines.
00:05:55.100And with that, I'll pass the mic to Risa to introduce today's guest.
00:06:03.380I get so emotional every time I hear you read the list, Ames.
00:06:08.580I'm just so moved to see the people in our community supporting this idea, like a joyful idea of reparations.
00:06:16.700Like it feels very empowering to me when things feel really dark, that we can sort of come together with a sense of joy in making things better, in repair, the feeling of care and repair.
00:06:27.120um and i'm just so thrilled to get to sit down again with our friend one of our favorite returning
00:06:35.640guests our common mate just such an inspiring thinker when it comes to thinking about how to
00:06:42.260return knowledge back into communities and foster care and support within a community
00:06:47.960um it's the brilliant crystal tube of blackbird medicines you're here you're back can you tell us
00:06:54.400where things are at with blackbird medicines and also how are you
00:06:59.760yeah so great to be back um things are flourishing with blackbird medicines it's uh it's a wonderful
00:07:13.060update to be able to give um it's been quite the year as uh i think your opening reflected
00:07:21.800and the grief that people have been dealing with
00:27:30.040well you do have to take time to process it privately i think um i was at a uh like i was
00:27:41.300mentioning a writing writing relations gathering uh over the weekend and this is kind of a group
00:27:46.420of adult educators are working around social justice and we talked about circles and the
00:27:53.860different types of circles talking circles healing circles working circles check-in circles
00:28:01.380and we talked about you know trauma dumping in those circles and how do you cope with that
00:28:07.720and should you cope with that why do you cope with that all these questions came up and
00:28:14.040there is a need for people to empty that from themselves there you know there's a that's a
00:28:23.300we have to release some steam from all that but finding therapeutic spaces to do it doesn't always
00:28:29.740seem as easy as we think um so supporting people uh accompanying people maybe to those first
00:28:39.160appointments or if you know it's not going well encouraging them to find another you know try
00:28:45.500again with someone else because you know i'm a counselor i do a lot of counseling but sometimes
00:28:52.120you and the person across from you are in the other box on zoom uh it's not a good click you're
00:28:59.460not you know you're not resonating with each other and that's totally okay we can't be everything to
00:29:05.600everybody everybody's different all that good stuff uh but when you do find that right person
00:29:11.720holy cow can you ever get a lot of work done that inner work it's like and you will it's so hard and
00:29:21.020this is something I was talking with the youth about recently, it is so hard to get going on
00:29:25.820that healing work. It's hard to get in the door. It's hard to get the person to help you. It's hard
00:29:30.540to get the resources to get the help. But once you find that person, once you get in there,
00:29:36.920it's hard work, but you will feel better. And you will feel better in a way that you will look back
00:29:42.480and be like wait i didn't think i could feel this good again and so it's that's part of it
00:29:50.340you have to do that process and as someone who has that kind of
00:29:57.920intergenerational charm and glow about my ancestral lineage and whatnot uh you you're
00:30:04.700gonna have to do it more than once likely um it's it's just it's just the reality of
00:30:11.500our changing and evolving perspectives it's it's what we as a species do is we grow and we change
00:30:17.820and uh so that yeah having those moments to to really share and um connect with
00:30:27.820what you went through and to honor it in a special way that makes sense for you that feels safe
00:30:33.180reclaiming that safety is just so key feeling safe with others feeling safe to talk
00:30:39.180um but also feeling safe enough to speak up when when you're not feeling safe because that is
00:30:46.540probably much harder than all the other things uh that i've experienced uh doing all the healing
00:30:54.440work you know advocating for all the other people and it comes to myself and it's you know
00:31:01.740uh we had a situation where there was a circle with kind of that was deemed to have trauma dumping
00:31:10.060and it made that a person in the circle state you know like i don't feel safe to share because
00:31:16.560of the amount of trauma that's been spoken about here and that was
00:31:22.420an important thing to speak up and share on um but at the same time that space was run
00:31:30.980by an indigenous elder and so the elders have a lot of different teachings and a lot of different
00:31:37.780approaches and some elders will say well this is what came out today and this is what we have to
00:31:44.780deal with and work with and you know it's like don't blame me blame creator it's happening
00:31:51.200um which here and there i'm not the one to decide all the protocol decisions uh but with with these
00:32:00.360these opportunities to address these things and to work through it um you you sometimes have to
00:32:08.300dump but you just have to pick the right place and if it's not the right place uh you might need
00:32:15.260backup to call that out and that's okay too if you're not in a place to do that
00:32:20.160yeah i have i have so many follow-up questions it's so generous of you to share this perspective
00:32:30.340perspective one just your lived perspective but also you know your social worker training and all
00:32:35.200of this this actual education that that we can learn from from you um I'm thinking about like
00:32:41.980you know so many people looking for spaces to share grief and this conversation about trauma
00:32:50.700dumping comes up a lot I'm also thinking about this Maria Bamford comedy bit she's a brilliant
00:32:57.220my favorite comedian who talks a lot about mental health but she sort of talks about how hard it is
00:33:02.140to find help and so she advocates just like take it wherever you can get it like she'll do it on
00:33:06.680like the helpline at the costco or whatever she's just like she'll just like take it wherever she
00:33:12.420could get it um and i think there's so much deep wisdom in that like you know it's so hard to
00:33:17.100navigate our health care systems we can't afford mental health services aren't generally covered
00:33:21.800like people need help so they're coming they're coming anywhere they're they're coming off in
00:33:27.120missing witches circles and we want to make a safe space but I'm not really trained how to do it
00:33:32.960I wonder what and that balance looks like from your perspective if a and I kind of really love
00:33:39.400the elders perspective of like that's what came up today so we're gonna have to hold it
00:33:43.820but I wonder what else you think about like one how we can make a safe space for people to say
00:33:50.020I actually don't feel safe here like I gotta I gotta do something about this because this this
00:33:55.100just got too hard for me too many buttons just got pushed for me right now and how we can protect
00:33:59.840that person and also sort of makes make circles of care around the people who really did just
00:34:04.920come and it overflowed out of them and there was something they needed to say that day
00:34:09.140yeah it's it is a fine balance because you don't want to have people leaving that space going I
00:34:18.320can't deal with this I gotta go and I've absolutely been that person like what is this
00:34:22.680where is this going like no I'm out and click and then there's the the other part of like what we
00:34:32.180what we talked about in our little meeting this weekend is that you know that trauma dumping
00:34:37.260is unsafe for the person disclosing as well because it is a feeling of being out of control
00:34:44.160and how many times like have i overshared something in like a nervous moment or something
00:34:51.200and then walked away like oh why did i say that uh it happens you know it really it just happens
00:35:02.240and to practice kindness in those slips is important as an individual um but for the person
00:35:09.600receiving that, um, you know, it can be a long drawn out thing. Uh, if, if someone's really
00:35:18.740sharing and going, you know, it's, it's important to, as a facilitator say, you know, like I need
00:35:25.380to interject and I'm so sorry. I don't want to, you know, upset you. And I feel you're upset
00:35:33.500already. I want to hold this in the proper way, but we can't do that in this space.
00:35:39.600And, you know, giving a moment of breath and, you know, letting any, taking that pause to let anyone know that, you know, we're going to share some resources at the end, or we're going to send resources, we're going to, you know, provide a number for someone, or in some cases, you know, we have someone in the space, and we can put you into a breakout room.
00:36:03.320um those kinds of offers that we can't talk about this right now because this isn't a safe space for
00:36:12.100that that type of sharing but we can create a safe space for you but we have to right now
00:36:18.740serve the whole group safety and that means we're going to pause for a second or take a deep breath
00:36:25.080you know decide if you need a break depending on how big of uh that was and
00:36:31.320you know take a minute reshore all of that and and try and start again or uh you know start fresh
00:36:40.600but also you know honoring that person like they they did maybe have that uh I don't want to
00:36:48.460dismiss someone trauma dumping because people tend to share when they feel safe and I've had
00:36:55.980so many experiences where i meet someone for the first time and you know maybe we've spent
00:37:02.620a session or an afternoon or doing whatever and they do they do you know trauma dump in like a
00:37:10.600sentence or two and you're like oh well i'm really sorry to hear that you know i've been i've run into
00:37:15.660someone at the grocery store picking like squeezing avocados and they just and you're like that was
00:37:22.540across the whole produce section buddy like do you want to go get a coffee uh this this isn't
00:37:28.280an okay spot but I want to hear more and see how you're doing um so just taking some of the fear
00:37:35.840out of that I guess what would be seen as a confrontation because it's you've already been
00:37:41.380confronted with the the share and you both feel kind of like uh what do we do so yeah and just
00:37:52.220honoring the bravery in it too you know that there there is a real moment of like I feel like I can
00:38:00.020do this so I'm gonna do it I'm gonna unleash this story and then and then like all of the feelings
00:38:06.160and repercussions that can come after that I always really want to honor the bravery that was
00:38:10.620like ready to do it and you know I've like I said I've had these experiences and what I try to do
00:38:17.440is you know using my own experiences where like I first got into talking about my lived experience
00:38:25.500with Planned Parenthood the executive director in Ottawa she used to work with Operation Come Home
00:38:32.880where I met her as a runaway teen runaway and she invited me because she knew I had had a child at
00:38:41.32018 she knew I was a teen parent and I'd also had abortions and I also had domestic violence so
00:38:48.920she invited me to share these stories with Planned Parenthood volunteers who are going to be doing
00:38:54.280options counseling and I would I love doing that and it got me my start and that's something I try
00:39:04.200to invite people to do with the death doula training if it's appropriate if I know I'm
00:39:10.200going to be in toronto and i've met someone that has done this you know maybe they need to share
00:39:14.660their story for their own healing too there's reasons that we want to share these things and
00:39:20.220you know one like i said maybe they felt safe with you there was something very integral in
00:39:24.900your energy that was like i can trust you with this and you can handle it and that can happen0.84
00:39:30.180and there's some alchemy there but there's also like i'm having a shit day and whoops i just said0.88
00:39:35.520that um so yeah gauging little assessment maybe critical analysis
00:39:43.420i i need to know this and i'm sure many of our listeners need to know this too
00:39:52.540how do we transform grief from like a noun to a verb like how do we take grief as a state of being
00:40:03.940has a weight on our chest or a sick feeling in our stomach or and and make it into an action
00:40:11.720item like how do we go from grief to grieving like do you have like a practice or a recommendation
00:40:20.320on on a way that we can sort of make grieving an action that's not just a weight that sits on our
00:40:29.000but rather a process through which we can transform it into something productive or healing or like
00:40:38.220useful it's like such a kick-ass question question um awesome awesome question uh because
00:40:47.520with grief literacy you know you learn about the different forms of grief and you know the
00:40:55.000different packages that grief can come in and then you learn about how grief can take you know kind
00:41:01.520of these disguises of different emotions you know your sadness or your um you know sadness can look
00:41:11.040like anger that kind of thing you learn about those aspects of grief but there's not really
00:41:16.920much talk on the morph of you know the noun to the verb so thank you so much i love that question
00:41:24.140this is something that I brainstorm with people a lot because it's important it's important to
00:41:33.480move through different types of grief different stages you might you know there's that whole
00:41:39.360diagram of the non-linear grief that's like a big squiggly mess it's very accurate and you can
00:41:45.560you know boomerang back to previous stages and forms of grief as before
00:41:51.440but with making it into that verb or action I really suggest people think about
00:41:59.460first of all there's a lot of reflection there's a lot of reflection that goes into grief I think
00:42:05.920moving through it if you are grieving a family member a pet a loved one thinking about that
00:42:14.760loved one, you know, maybe what reminds you of them because it's going to pop up for you no
00:42:21.160matter what. So embracing those reminders, making those positive things for you, things that you
00:42:29.140can celebrate. You know, some examples people have shared or, you know, they find an Indian
00:42:35.980head penny or something or uh you know the number 333 on the clock or um cardinals angels you know
00:42:45.520oh uh this one song comes on and i you know this favorite song and i think about them every single
00:42:51.120time those little moments can allow you to actively celebrate somebody because you can
00:42:59.000embrace it and kind of hug it and own it a little bit and it's something you can keep in your pocket
00:43:03.000like a talisman um that's one thing uh but if you're feeling grief around transition and change
00:43:13.160or loss that maybe isn't necessarily a death you know maybe it's a death of a situation right just
00:43:19.520like in the tarot it's not necessarily you know our ip it could be a major change for grief like
00:43:28.600that that can be some of the more trickier to navigate because people understand a loved one
00:43:34.440dying it's pretty clear-cut I you're not here anymore and I miss you but when you end you know
00:43:43.420a friendship that has run its course you know how do you grieve that in a way that doesn't seem
00:43:52.060self-indulgent or silly or you know doesn't make you angry again or whatever came up in that
00:44:00.720particular you know that particular example um if you're grieving you know that i had this
00:44:07.540experience recently i had gotten a i dance with entrepreneurship sometimes but the reality of the
00:44:15.580world and money and whatnot i also dance with the odd job and i also usually quit these jobs
00:44:21.700actually um but this last job I was so good at it I loved it so much it was so good I
00:44:30.360was loving the staff I was loving I already felt like oh my gosh I feel like work family vibes like
00:44:37.600this is incredible and it was reciprocated and I felt it deeply um but there was an element
00:44:44.920very toxic ed that i had to flee and that was what was best for me and so much grief i still
00:44:54.100get mad when i think about it but that's grief and so for that particular example
00:44:59.560i've been able to honor what has come to me instead so it's it's really just a reflective
00:45:07.800of peace. It's finding something that can go alongside it. You know, I'm grieving this job
00:45:16.920that didn't work out the way I wanted, but right alongside it is my business.
00:45:23.340And the first week I left that job, because it was right for me,
00:45:27.800i had 35 000 in contracts in like four days four business days and that to me was like hey
00:45:39.520okay i did what i was supposed to do uh you know so just manifest a little
00:45:48.460but you know like I'm trying to think of other examples
00:45:54.040you know maybe there's grief over one great example that I got from a training we had that
00:46:02.380I have permission to to share was a new to be grandma her adult son was expecting a baby and
00:46:12.980she wasn't upset about the baby or anything she's very thrilled but she still had like a sadness
00:46:20.360and she couldn't quite put her her finger on it she's like kind of not fully able to celebrate
00:46:26.280and she didn't understand what was going on and in the training she was able to realize like it's
00:46:32.740it's a grief that she's feeling and she's grieving that yes you know she's going to be a grandma she's
00:46:39.820not grieving that part she's like i'm totally fine about that it's not like i'm grieving becoming
00:46:44.240old or something uh but she was grieving that her son wasn't this little kid anymore
00:46:49.540and she was also grieving for him in anticipate anticipatory grief because she knows how hard it
00:46:58.300is to be a parent and she knows what he's gonna have to go through and oh yeah it's a girl
00:47:04.660so now he's gonna know what girls know and you know whether he likes it or not and you know so
00:47:12.980she's grieving for that for for all of that and it was just being able to put words to it
00:47:18.960that allowed her to find the actions that led her to a better spot and she was able to have
00:47:26.100like a heart-to-heart with him about that grief and that was the action she needed to to keep
00:47:31.420going and moving through that grief. So, um, sometimes it's finding the words, sometimes it's
00:47:38.400just connecting with others, going through something similar. Um, you know, I, I, a lot of
00:47:45.340what we interact around grief with in the collective, uh, has connections to addictions
00:47:51.540and substance abuse and death around around those issues and grieving parents and partners and
00:48:02.680children um you know it's it's a hurt that uh nobody can fix nobody can change anything about
00:48:15.060it for you and either that loved one is going to find a way out or they're going to be gone
00:48:24.740and it's just a matter of the clock winding down and it's so difficult but when I bring this up
00:48:33.760in a training or in a workshop or something the ones in the group who know what this pain is about
00:48:40.160they very quickly find each other very very quickly and
00:48:46.140it's just being able to commiserate a little you know being able to
00:48:53.880you know maybe you don't want to really like get into all the aspects of how it's hard to
00:49:01.940love someone who abuses substances um you know and there's a lot of ways that individuals are
00:49:08.440impacted from their bank accounts to their housing situations to pets to children there's so many
00:49:18.820things that are impacted when it comes to addictions and there's really I think community
00:49:27.620is what is the best like gathering in community is really the best action and also if possible
00:49:33.720dragging some of these people to community for connection because that is what's going to bring
00:49:40.580them back um yeah i mean like i said i'm that's probably one of my favorite parts of this work
00:49:48.340is brainstorming ways to make that grief into something actionable something to find that way
00:49:55.860forward can i ask about um practices um traditions witchy ones or you know culturally specific ones
00:50:11.020if you feel like open to sharing those for for for making that transition for for for moving
00:50:19.400a circle of people who've come together because they have shared grief
00:50:23.560transitioning that moment somehow well i think the most popular way
00:50:32.160uh and the most accessible way is feasting you know everybody's got to eat
00:50:39.060you know make your make your potluck plans make your you know local uh shawarma dream
00:50:49.900meal happen whatever uh and you you come together and uh what is most common uh that a lot of folks
00:51:00.620will know in indigenous communities is we have something called the spirit plate
00:51:03.960and the spirit plate is a way to create um you make a plate and if sometimes the person doing
00:51:14.180it has a specific spirit in mind. Sometimes it's someone that the community has lost and there's a
00:51:20.320very intentional person that's thought of for that spirit plate, but you put their favorite foods on
00:51:26.100that plate and you serve them just like they were going to be, you know, you're going to pass it
00:51:30.320right off to them. And you would, you would put out that spirit plate for the spirits. And at the
00:51:38.980end of the gathering uh you know the facilitator really the person who made that that plate is
00:51:45.060typically expected to bring that plate and return it to the elements
00:51:49.540whether you put it you know hopefully in a completely biodegradable type of thing in the
00:51:56.740bush or something the animals the the earth all of the you know the rain whatever it'll all take
00:52:02.540care of that um you know or you can put it into a sacred fire um i don't know if you if waterway
00:52:11.920is what you got to do i wouldn't be putting dishes in waterways but you know you got to think about
00:52:17.400it return it to the elements in a good way that's uh you know leaving no trace no harm and uh
00:52:25.500that's that's really popular um and what else you know like setting that place at the dinner table
00:52:34.500I know that's something that some people will do you know automatically without realizing
00:52:40.100and there's some families that will practice traditions well they'll keep that place
00:52:44.960and they'll continue to set that place for the first year that they're gone
00:52:49.140or maybe it's every Sunday when the family would typically gather or something like that
00:52:54.320And so there's ways that you can physically practice, you know, grief rituals that help you honor and move through that grief.
00:53:06.840And in some cultures, like in some nations, you know, there's a really strong belief that you cannot speak that person's name for the first year after they've left because it can distract them from their journey.
00:53:20.340will be too compelled by their connections that they had on the earth and be strayed from that
00:53:27.480transition. And then there's, you know, other ones who just completely turn around and ignore
00:53:34.020the transition and stick around. And one of the practices I learned about that I've really loved
00:53:41.880and has been really important for traumatic death is the crying blanket.
00:53:50.860And so, you know, traumatic death, traumatic loss, you know,