Missing Witches - LAMMAS 2025： Grief Is A Portal With Kristen Renaud, Diandra Ford-Wing, And Amy Miranda

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00:00:23.500 Hello and welcome to another episode of the Missing Witches podcast. I'm Amy T. 0.81

00:00:28.160 We have arrived at Lamas, that halfway point between summer solstice and autumn equinox.

00:00:37.320 The world feels like a lot.

00:00:41.340 So many of us are trying to process personal loss, trauma, and grief in the face of global loss, trauma, and grief.

00:00:50.760 The last thing I want for us is for any of us to drag our old wounds into the autumn

00:00:59.700 or let the bad stuff that happened stop us from making great stuff happen.

00:01:06.880 We need to learn how to make our way through our pain

00:01:10.860 and find a way to transform that journey to feed our future.

00:01:15.520 so i put together this panel of folks to help us discover systems for transmuting trauma each of

00:01:24.860 our guests today has managed to transmute trauma into something better in their own way

00:01:31.940 because everyone's experience is different so rather than giving you one answer and hoping it

00:01:39.000 works out. Today, we'll get three different perspectives to help us understand that healing

00:01:45.660 or moving on happens in a multitude of ways. What works for us may not work for you,

00:01:55.240 but together, hopefully, we can find something that works for everyone.

00:02:00.260 Our guests today are D'Andra Ford-Wing and Amy Miranda and Kristen Renaud.

00:02:09.000 I want to give you a brief introduction to center you all in this space.

00:02:14.000 After losing her aunt and mother in quick succession, D'Andra found hope in cardinals.

00:02:20.040 Of her book, Redbird, she said, I hope to offer solace to those navigating the challenging waters of loss and grief, providing a safe haven amidst their emotional storms.

00:02:38.060 in finally being able to name her trauma of csa and seek justice amy miranda was able to bring

00:02:46.360 her spiritual practice and her creative practice together with what we've forgotten

00:02:51.860 and after surviving a mass shooting in 2021 kristen renaud found her way through painting

00:03:00.540 and gardening, which begat lightning-struck gardens. And each purchase of an item from LSG

00:03:08.120 helps to fund her nonprofit and provide emotional support to survivors of gun violence. Pain happens

00:03:16.000 in 8 billion different ways, and healing happens in 8 billion different ways. So let's get a look

00:03:23.220 three of those ways today. Welcome, D'Andra, Kristen, and Amy. Yay! Thank you so much for 0.80

00:03:31.720 being in circle with me today. I think our listeners already know a bit about Kristen

00:03:38.300 and Amy Miranda. So let's start with you, D'Andra Ford Wing. I gave a brief introduction,

00:03:44.260 but I want to know, what do you want our listeners to know about you today? Who are you today?

00:03:52.020 Oh, today I am someone who's grateful to be here and amongst this panel because honestly, I never thought that this would be my path. You know what I mean? I never thought that my mom would die. I knew she was going to.

00:04:08.000 I had prepared myself years prior to her death because I just felt it coming.

00:04:14.060 But she wasn't sick.

00:04:15.940 She was just living life.

00:04:17.980 But after my aunt passed away in the Gambia, she was never the same.

00:04:23.420 Her grief really took over her body.

00:04:27.300 And it took an emotional toll on me to see her not being who she was, this jovial, wonderful

00:04:36.180 spirit.

00:04:36.740 and it really made me think about just the longevity of our lives on this planet and I said

00:04:46.280 I have to I have to write this down I have to do something with these feelings and these thoughts

00:04:52.460 and this grief and all of these things and so that spawned Redbird and Redbird is Redbird is

00:05:02.460 like a memoir yeah it's a memoir just a little bit yeah so it basically takes you through

00:05:09.720 um the present which was my aunt passing she passed first and then 14 months later my mom

00:05:16.100 then passed um then we talk about the birth of my great niece a month to the day that my mom died

00:05:23.280 and it was just it oh my goodness it was so ethereal it was so just out of left field that

00:05:30.960 my niece then now has a baby and that baby is basically my mom her mannerisms her everything

00:05:41.640 that she does it's just my mom but the book itself covers you know of course the loss and the grief

00:05:49.440 and all that jazz but it also talks about my upbringing as a military brat and as someone

00:05:57.140 who dealt with a lot of body image issues and was bullied when I was a kid so I talk about that a

00:06:02.780 little bit and it's just you know full circle for me it's just a full circle moment and let's keep

00:06:10.540 going around the circle again and again and again Kristen yeah Kristen who are you today

00:06:16.680 what are you today what do you want our listeners to know about you today oh great question um

00:06:25.560 I am enough today that that took me a while to be able to say and I'm gonna say it again

00:06:32.840 I am enough today I just I don't know if you can see Kristen but Mel is in the gallery

00:06:38.700 just fist pumping when you said you were enough yes you're enough every day thank you for it

00:06:44.640 um I am an artist a writer a survivor of gun violence um it doesn't define me but it is part

00:06:54.060 of me. And I'm doing really well today. I am so excited to be on this podcast. I am so excited to

00:07:02.680 be talking with all of you. This is, you know, D'Andrea, you mentioned coming full circle. This

00:07:08.920 is really beautiful full circle moment for me. I found your podcast and started listening to it in

00:07:15.600 like depths of my PSD. And so it's really full circle to be here talking about transmuting

00:07:23.740 PTSD. So I'm thrilled to be here. Thank you. And thank you for reminding me that this podcast

00:07:34.320 is a tool that we use to help each other. Amy Miranda, who are you today? What do you want

00:07:43.320 our listeners to know about you today? I'm standing in joy today. I feel the same. I'm

00:07:48.920 just so grateful to be here um on this podcast with all of you and standing in joy and i think

00:07:56.260 a lot of times when we talk about trauma um which because of my canadian accent sometimes sounds

00:08:02.200 like drama which they can feel the same thing feel the same way um but i think a lot of times

00:08:07.900 we we don't give ourselves permission um in the you know darkness and the shadow of grief or

00:08:14.240 surviving um you know a violent event um to be able to actually like stand in the joy and to

00:08:21.840 um and that's a big part of who i am in my practice um of remembering and um and i think

00:08:28.320 that's part of what you know we it's demonized a lot right remembering um especially a lot of us

00:08:35.600 that live with cptsd or ptsd um because memories haunt us um and they show up when we least expect

00:08:43.600 it through like smell or sound or and for me the remembering has been one big transmutation where

00:08:51.680 you know what we've forgotten was kind of a double entendre about like what we remember repressed

00:08:56.520 memories things like that um i got hit in the face with trauma early on in a bunch of different ways

00:09:02.120 um and i think you know luckily that transmutation of um you know what is a physical

00:09:10.500 um repercussion i think of experiencing um you know a violence to the spirit

00:09:18.120 in any capacity um being able to take that and actually um you know transmute the that was very

00:09:25.940 canadian too you know um but transmute i see the comedy the comedy is important um but transmuting

00:09:34.380 you know the shadow into light and and correlating those two things right that there is no shadow

00:09:40.500 without light and that there is no light you know without shadow so and i think that's part of the

00:09:45.940 journey of that transmutation so i'm coming today with the joy and the humor um and the sacred i

00:09:52.640 think my teacher says you know pain uh is transmuting it to holy wisdom um that's what

00:09:59.860 we're trying to do here today yes yeah so yeah and what you said about um you know there is no

00:10:07.280 light without darkness no darkness without light and um I have this quote from D'Andra so maybe we

00:10:15.000 can come together on this because I think sometimes of it did you ever see that movie

00:10:19.800 Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind you know where like you can erase a person from your memory

00:10:26.420 like your ex or someone who is her and I sometimes I fantasize about removing people from my my brain

00:10:33.920 but then I remember you know like I am what I am because of everything it's not just the good

00:10:43.760 things that me and when I'm happy with who I am which is today then I can almost be grateful but

00:10:51.060 D'Andra, you wrote, to fully embrace the warmth of love, one must also navigate the sharp edges of heartache.

00:11:01.880 Yeah.

00:11:02.880 Do you want to expand on that idea for us for a second?

00:11:05.500 Definitely. I feel just as, you know, Amy just said, I can't, I couldn't be the person I am today with all of the hardships and all of the bad things that may have happened to me.

00:11:19.920 So I think, and this is just, you know, my take, I think that having these experiences shapes you in such a way that you can't help but to grow. You can't help but to be better. So you have to take the bitter with the sweet and get through this thing called life. That is exactly what I meant when I wrote those words.

00:11:46.240 and most of our listeners self-identify as witch so i was really drawn to this idea that birds can

00:11:57.340 help us heal and i think that our our listeners will be too so talk talk a little bit about the

00:12:03.580 the red bird of the title the actual bird yeah the saying goes that when the red bird appears

00:12:11.280 angels are near. And we, my family and I, we had a connection with the red bird. I don't know when

00:12:18.300 that started happening, but I do remember back in 2019, we were at my papa's funeral and we had

00:12:25.120 gone back to his house to have, you know, fellowship, a repass, all that stuff. And we

00:12:29.840 were just eating, sitting around talking about him. And my niece looked out the window and she's

00:12:34.560 like, Hey, you guys, there's a, there's a cardinal out there. And my mom was like, that's nothing

00:12:39.620 of a papa telling us he made it to the other side and he's he's cool he's good so I after that

00:12:46.860 moment I went looking for red birds and you can't do that you have to be in the moment you have to

00:12:54.280 live your life and then be blessed with the presence of said bird but it was interesting

00:13:01.300 because I did not see the red bird when my mom died initially but I did see it the morning that

00:13:07.000 my aunt passed away and I was driving to my mom's house to go console her and I look I'm on this

00:13:13.420 like rural road just like nobody's out there but me it's like dawn breaking dawn and I see a flash

00:13:20.080 of red just fly over my windshield and I'm like oh my gosh is that my aunt and I couldn't wait to

00:13:26.840 get to my mom's house to tell her I saw a red bird I think it was Sean I think it was her

00:13:30.880 and I told her and she was like, it was. And I said, see, like, this is the kind of thing that

00:13:38.060 when you're in the deep throes of just the grief, when you see something that you can resonate with,

00:13:45.920 that you can connect with, and it is assigned a symbol for you, when you see it, whatever that

00:13:53.980 symbol is, whatever that hummingbird or bird, or could be a butterfly, whatever it is, it could be,

00:13:58.820 you feel that much closer to the ones that you've lost you you use the word assigned who who's

00:14:06.120 making the assignment is it spirit is it us it's a spirit it's us it's everything and you know

00:14:12.780 we never had a talk like okay guys this is our family mascot it wasn't like that it was more of

00:14:19.260 like oh it just came to be and everybody you know when I wrote the book I was like I'm naming it

00:14:24.580 red bird and my sisters and brother were like oh yeah that makes sense like there was no like

00:14:29.880 doubt there was no question because they knew the connection that our family had with this

00:14:34.720 particular bird and what if we what if no birds choose us can we choose something ourselves

00:14:42.480 you can I was talking to this lady on this podcast a couple of days ago and she said

00:14:48.220 that her mom sends her coins pennies nickels whatever if you see a stray penny on the floor

00:14:56.300 you pick it up that was meant for you that was a sign that i'm still here with you in some capacity

00:15:03.000 they're going to put them in front of you the spirit world will put whatever it is that you

00:15:07.440 assign for you and your family in front of you at odd times when you most need it and i think

00:15:13.840 part of it could be like what we've forgotten too you know I yes I had a friend who passed

00:15:20.140 and we remembered after his passing that he had said it's so weird I'm always finding dimes

00:15:28.620 everywhere like is it just because they're small they fall through pockets and then we've all

00:15:33.680 started finding dimes all over the place and to this day you know this was 15 years ago that this

00:15:40.860 happen but I think of him every time I find a dime in my house on the ground wherever so sometimes

00:15:48.620 yes it comforts you doesn't it well and it's pennies pennies from heaven right there's a

00:15:54.060 reason that they say that right and I think that like that feeling of connection through the veil

00:16:00.380 and that people I always call those breadcrumbs right which relates to birds as well but this

00:16:04.880 idea of that people even though their you know ego self may not have known what was coming their

00:16:11.120 higher self left clues yes and you know that's i think that's been such a big part of transmutation

00:16:17.320 too is that and when i wanted to just reflect on what you both said this idea of that it's part of

00:16:24.740 the fabric of who we are but the thing i wanted to say about that is there's intention to the recipe

00:16:31.740 right like when we are creating something we add things in a certain order and spirit energy

00:16:38.460 whatever we want to call it transmutation alchemy that's the same thing you add it in an order

00:16:44.260 and there's a thoughtfulness to how it goes and of course like i i didn't get that they always say

00:16:52.060 like you find meaning meaning later but once i reflected you know and took myself out of the

00:16:59.900 you know breakdown that is you know a traumatic event being able to go up and sort of do the

00:17:05.740 crime scene investigation so to speak and look at what was going on and how it happened

00:17:10.380 and giving ourselves the reverence for how it was survived i mean i lost my best friend two

00:17:18.660 days before my 19th birthday and i thought that was my biggest trauma and the side effect of that

00:17:24.900 was like i'm gonna go and you know i'm gonna because i thought the recipe was i'll go get

00:17:28.920 successful and then everything's going to be okay and then of course it was like when will the fire

00:17:32.820 be yeah and you know it was such a transmutation agent to be able to look at it and go okay what

00:17:38.280 does this mean and then amy what i liked about what you said about erasing it um you know i do

00:17:45.440 think there's a way to be able to do that um and not in a way that negates the experience right

00:17:52.900 in terms of like shamanic healing soul retrieval ceremony to be able to go and bring back power

00:18:00.100 that may have been lost due to trauma and not to drink bring back the power to bring back the trauma

00:18:07.320 but to bring back the power um energetically right and that's how we erase it yeah um but it's not an

00:18:15.140 erasure right it's a transformation it's a transmutation yeah yeah exactly yeah it's a

00:18:19.820 transmutation and giving energy the space to do that and like i mean that was part of my original

00:18:24.300 journey on that path of like how do you deal with the trauma this deep um that you know as a lot of

00:18:32.300 csa survivors would say it's you know you feel dirty in places soap doesn't reach what do you do

00:18:38.440 and of course i you know i dragged myself those of people who's who know me from them like i

00:18:44.860 literally dragged myself to find options and ended up finding shamanic healing by magic by following

00:18:50.480 breadcrumbs but it was a vibration that needed to change in my body and giving it the space to have

00:18:57.820 that happen and to giving you know alchemy or transmutation right the room that it needs to be

00:19:03.340 able to do that just like a recipe just like any concoction so i just wanted to say that because i

00:19:08.780 loved what you said about it becoming a part of our fabric connective tissue but also this idea

00:19:14.040 of being able to erase it by way of transmutation meaning erase the darkness or the dark shadowy

00:19:19.720 bits of it so that when it does come up through memory we see it as a badge or a tool of you know

00:19:26.380 being able to share that with other people and I always say um Kristen I loved what you said about

00:19:31.100 it's part of my story it's not the whole story but we mention it I think at least I do because

00:19:37.040 that's how I find the others because I was you know dragging myself through the darkness for so

00:19:43.220 long because nobody was talking about it so that was part of the side effect for me of lighting it

00:19:48.620 up was to be like okay i need you know to shine a light on this and like not only my light but

00:19:53.140 every flashlight we can find um so and that's what's happening i think a lot of what's going

00:19:57.860 on in culture right now right we're seeing people aiming their flashlights at this specifically and

00:20:02.400 it's really important yeah i want to return to that storytelling aspect of transformation

00:20:09.340 transmutation healing whatever word you make sense for you but first um i want to return to nature

00:20:17.000 and toss this to kristin you said in an interview that cycles of nature relate to grief

00:20:25.460 and specifically to your grief can you expand on that idea for us

00:20:32.120 yeah um let's see i look at grief as a spiral um and that's where the cycles of nature overlap

00:20:47.940 with grief for me so that spiraling piece of it sometimes you're really close and really

00:20:53.720 tight into the grief and other times you're really far away from the grief and

00:20:58.620 other times grief takes you on this pattern there's a cyclical pattern my grief at least

00:21:05.980 um I come around to anniversaries and things feel tighter and things feel harder and things feel

00:21:11.880 um different around that time almost I'm holding my breath and then it passes and I exhale and

00:21:18.980 there's a little bit more room to breathe and I think I found that in nature with especially

00:21:26.820 tracking the seasons and how plants grow throughout the seasons um there's a time for the seed there's

00:21:35.400 a time to be in your shell there's a time to be in the darkness and when seeds pop from their seed

00:21:43.180 and growing they don't start with the sprout they don't start growing toward light they start with

00:21:47.820 their root and they grow in the darkness and then comes the plant um but first the roots grow down

00:21:55.040 in that darkness that the seed is meant to be in and so plants gave this nature gave me this

00:22:02.680 model for to do with my grief that when it felt suffocating it felt like okay that's okay be in

00:22:10.040 my seed phase i can retreat into this darkness and know that the darkness was there and supposed

00:22:16.060 to be holding me instead of it being something that i really feared um and there are other times

00:22:22.520 like right now I feel like a flower in bloom talking to you about how to transform this um

00:22:27.980 and and hopefully this moment sends out seeds that we can all use um and I and I that as kind

00:22:36.260 of spiral and I just it allows me a model um I needed a model I needed a way to find my way

00:22:43.200 through grief and I found it in plants and that gave me grace through the model and you're you're

00:22:51.640 Yeah, I think that's what I have to say.

00:22:53.580 Yeah, part of your, excuse me, part of your work is like group sessions, talk therapy, as it were.

00:23:05.820 Yes.

00:23:06.480 And so I want to ask each of you, you know, Kristen, you have these group sessions.

00:23:12.500 Deandra, Amy, you both wrote books.

00:23:15.040 Why was A, telling this story, Amy, you already touched on this a bit.

00:23:21.640 And telling your own story and then allowing other people to tell their stories, like how is storytelling a healing practice, I guess is my question. If Kristen, you want to start and then D'Andra, Amy, jump in anytime.

00:23:35.340 yeah yeah um so like amy said i lead support groups for gun violence survivors um they're

00:23:44.880 about eight weeks they're eight week sessions and um they they start with um an educational

00:23:52.160 piece in the beginning where we go over what grief looks like what trauma looks like what

00:23:58.240 comes up with trauma and grief what it does to your body what it does to your thoughts what

00:24:02.420 what can come of it um you know and one of the sessions we actually go through is funny we were

00:24:07.040 talking about meaning making and that that's one of the sessions um and so being able to

00:24:13.660 provide this informational piece where i didn't have all the information at first i had to go

00:24:19.660 find it in bits and pieces and books by talking to other people and feeling out myself in my own

00:24:25.160 journey and finding these support groups where someone came in and shared educational piece and

00:24:30.680 then overlaid their personal story onto that educational piece really helped to, it just

00:24:39.440 helped to open up my world of healing and seeing that there was someone else going through

00:24:43.420 that.

00:24:45.620 I like to think of it as a lighthouse, as a beacon of light, and sharing your story, it

00:24:52.480 might not be the brightest light in the sky, it might not be lighting up the sea, but that

00:24:57.980 one light does make it navigable.

00:24:59.720 um that one does change the the situation and so i think that that's the power of storytelling

00:25:08.160 and the power of sharing it um i just i don't think we talk about it enough in society and i

00:25:15.980 think that that leads to it being this mysterious process that we all have to go through all on our

00:25:21.820 own. And that's not really true. So I welcome support group survivors. I lead my own groups

00:25:31.760 now as just the most radical thing I can think to do right now. You know, mass shootings aren't

00:25:39.180 stopping, unfortunately. And so there has to be something for what's going on. And I think that

00:25:47.860 just talking and sharing our stories um outside of bringing it to people in the media or politicians

00:25:53.900 but just one-on-one facilitating healing is so important to me yeah i remember um during the

00:26:02.160 pandemic and we we as a coven we talked about this a lot that we had had this collective trauma this

00:26:09.460 collective experience but that we weren't doing any collective grieving and i think that that's

00:26:15.280 still true that we're still not doing that and I think you hit it Kristen like we don't know how

00:26:22.080 often we don't know how to do that and that's part of why I'm personally here today like I want to

00:26:28.060 learn how to do that um but we'll return to the storytelling piece Deandra like why did this have

00:26:34.860 to be a book it was on my heart I it started off not as a book just to be completely honest I was

00:26:43.500 just writing a journal entry. And I kept going back to it and adding things to it and cleaning

00:26:50.940 it up. And I was like, what am I doing? This is just a journal. No one's going to read this but

00:26:54.460 me. And then I heard a voice say, maybe they should read it. If you build it, they will come.

00:27:01.540 No, I'm just kidding. But you're also not kidding. I'm not. But the thing that really

00:27:08.540 got me going was just the possibility of someone picking up this book and being inspired,

00:27:18.080 being, feeling better about their situation, because I'm telling you, it has not been the

00:27:24.580 path, the road, the whatever to grief has not been a crystal stair.

00:27:30.360 I mean, it has been worn down because I keep going back to the same places that I'm revisiting

00:27:37.120 when I think about grief and I don't know necessarily why I wanted it to be this little

00:27:45.520 book, this memoir, but it just shaped up to be that way. And I'm grateful for it. And when I

00:27:53.160 decided that I was going to publish this book, I did it in such a short amount of time. It took me

00:27:58.740 from start to finish, about 11 months to write the thing and do the editing, find a publisher.

00:28:08.300 I mean, it just was, it was heaven sent. I think it was meant to be.

00:28:12.140 I think sometimes the universe, when it's pleased with our actions,

00:28:17.040 it makes the road a little smoother and faster.

00:28:19.660 Yes, yes. So I had no qualms about, you know, working on the book because I knew that ultimately

00:28:27.140 it was going to get read by someone, not just my family, but someone's going to read it. I don't

00:28:32.460 care if it's at a fricking half price books and you spot the book, I pick it up. It's good. It'll

00:28:38.280 help you, you know? So I just, I really just like, you know, Kristen here, I I'm an artist too. And

00:28:47.580 I paint and I do all these things, but that wasn't calling to me when my mom died. What was calling

00:28:54.000 to me was the writing aspect of it. It was, my mom was an English teacher and she loved literature.

00:29:02.400 That was her life for, you know, 40 plus years. And I know that she would be tickled pink that

00:29:09.100 I wrote this book in memory of her and for her and for me and for my aunt. And I just know that

00:29:16.800 she's proud I know that she is she's tickled red not yes she's tickled red Amy I know that you have

00:29:25.780 something to say about this um but first I just want to read something from what we've forgotten

00:29:31.040 this is your book that goes with your deck and listeners all of this stuff will be in the show

00:29:36.300 notes of course um this is from like the very beginning but it was so resonant and I think

00:29:44.220 Listeners, like, anyway.

00:29:49.480 I once thought I was too broken to be fixed.

00:29:53.660 I tried to hide it from everyone with cool outfits, addictions, money, and makeup.

00:29:58.180 I ran such a good show that most people never had any idea that there was anything much going on behind the curtain.

00:30:05.500 I'd had too much trauma to be able to feel or to recognize any real magic that was running through me.

00:30:11.860 i was a vessel who'd run aground progress was stalled i was stuck and much like humanity right

00:30:22.300 now i was in need of a major overhaul i think like too broken to be fixed stuck run aground

00:30:32.640 i mean if i had to count all of the people that i love that feel that way i i wouldn't be able to

00:30:39.780 it feels it feels infinite listeners there is no such thing as too broken to be fixed

00:30:46.860 i want to tell you that right now you are you are not broken you may be run aground

00:30:52.160 but there are ways to haul yourself back into the sea um amy miranda can you can you talk about that

00:31:00.820 that feeling of just you know kristen said she finally feels like she's enough

00:31:05.660 and i think all of us have had those moments of being stuck of being run aground of feeling like

00:31:14.060 we could there there was no way out and amy i see your face getting emotional already so

00:31:19.880 yeah thanks for making me cry yeah nice try nice try didn't take long

00:31:25.900 um thank you i want our listeners to know that the four of us sitting here

00:31:33.340 aren't special in the way that we met we're all very special but yeah in the way that we managed

00:31:41.700 to just claw our way out of our grief and our oh yeah it wasn't elegant i mean that's the thing

00:31:48.060 right it wasn't elegant it was ugly it was um you know and a lot of people who know me

00:31:55.380 from before I named my trauma I mean I was damaged right I was I call it in the book the trauma shed

00:32:06.220 right I wasn't just smoking out back I was living there um and I do want to say just to line it up

00:32:12.400 a little I still have to transmute I still like makeup okay so I still enjoy makeup um I like

00:32:18.960 adornments um but to really kind of trace the thread there in terms of too broken to be fixed

00:32:24.320 I mean, for me, I had my entire life collapsed like scaffolding, right?

00:32:29.740 I mean, it was like everything I thought I knew about, everything was not true, right?

00:32:33.920 And I mean, my abuser was my father.

00:32:36.720 So, and I only talk about that in the book once.

00:32:39.920 And I want to say, if you're feeling too broken to be fixed,

00:32:42.380 or you feel like you need a toe and you don't know where to start,

00:32:45.000 I mean, that's why I wrote this book.

00:32:47.600 So if you need it, get in touch with me, right?

00:32:51.080 I took the rights back this year for that reason.

00:32:53.360 if you need it get in touch with me this is not about money um this is about life right and this

00:32:59.680 is about survival and i wrote this book because i didn't want anyone to have to go through what

00:33:04.720 i went through trying to figure out what to do about you know the entire foundation that i had

00:33:10.800 known falling out from under me um but i finally and what i what the transmutation of that was was

00:33:17.120 it was like i got a chapter back in a book right where i was like oh oh oh and those people who

00:33:26.000 are close to me and my family they know that i mean when i disclosed um to them about what

00:33:32.640 had gone on they went why didn't we figure this out and i'm very lucky a lot of i mean i call and

00:33:40.240 this is where i want to start by responding to this amazing question after you made me cry

00:33:43.840 um was talking about finding the others um and i am big on support groups too i want to give a

00:33:52.020 shout out to the remarkables the original founding members of the remarkables or what i call csa

00:33:56.940 survivors um we are like superheroes and when we transmute that trauma we become a power like

00:34:04.320 nobody's ever seen um and one of my clients said to my teacher once how is amy like this

00:34:10.540 and he said sometimes this is the side effect um and so what was really integral to me and

00:34:18.920 was to find a new foundation right once it crumbles you need a new one so that's where

00:34:26.460 the adventure begins and that's why my book is called an interdimensional adventure to remember

00:34:30.980 the wonder within because it starts with our ancestors it starts with those stories so i had

00:34:35.520 to follow the line and i mean i'm an executive producer by trade i'm an artist so i had to tell

00:34:40.160 the story of the book through an adventure um you know goonies that's i mean and that's i talk about

00:34:47.500 that in the book right it's like goonies never say die so that's how the book begins right you're

00:34:54.500 being invited on an adventure and this is what a healing journey is it's an adventure it's an

00:34:59.380 intention-driven scavenger hunt to figure out what happened and to rebuild a foundation which for me

00:35:05.440 and spoiler in the book when i told my grandmother that i was a remarkable my mom's mom she said me

00:35:11.780 too and she was 86 years old and she had never met another survivor or or one that said it out loud

00:35:21.600 and so for me and i had you know questioned even telling her so i brought over some pastries i was

00:35:30.760 like, we're going to have a nice chat about childhood sexual abuse. It's going to be great.

00:35:34.880 And so I'm joking. I know. Right. But that's how I was. Right. I was like, this is what we're

00:35:41.560 going to have to do. And she said me too. Right. And so that changed everything because then I

00:35:47.140 looked at the physiology of it and I was like, oh, my mom was an egg. I was an egg. And my grandma

00:35:52.400 went, whoa. Right. And then I looked at the other side of the line and I was like, okay, what went

00:35:56.720 on there right and it was like oh okay wait a minute we you know i'm poor puerto rican part

00:36:02.760 filipino miranda's not even our real last name it was given to us by colonizers and i'm like no

00:36:08.620 wonder my father's a predator so for me it was about looking at the entire circle and then going

00:36:16.380 as kristen said really small starting really small and those survivors who have gone through the

00:36:21.620 journey of disclosing or remembering or even you know any trauma that you have experienced and you

00:36:26.420 aware of you usually keep your circle pretty small at first so that's part of it is rebuilding the

00:36:34.340 foundation so everyone who's dealing with survivors right now or anyone who's in trauma

00:36:38.340 that's why you're feeling isolated but the first ingredient we talked about ingredients to add back

00:36:43.780 into the recipe is the others like you so finding them through community people always say to me

00:36:49.380 why do you talk about this so much and at first when i started talking about my trauma everyone

00:36:54.500 told me not to there's a lot of people who messaged me a lot of people said don't talk about this are

00:36:59.060 you sure like i think this is an entertaining story for me to tell this is awful so and if i

00:37:06.340 was gonna choose something i mean people who know me i would be more colorful than this so i think

00:37:11.140 this is the kind of thing where you have to own it and then by part of owning it you find the others

00:37:17.140 and then for me it was about getting big and screaming it so that we don't lose anybody else

00:37:23.220 because i don't want to lose anybody else because the power that comes from surviving this i always

00:37:28.180 say to my clients and my friends and my family it's like badges right they're badges of honor

00:37:33.780 and those of us who have survived these kinds of trials and tribulations should be respected

00:37:38.020 just like a four-star general right so that's i think part of that transmutation of of using and

00:37:47.220 i love using fire and spiritual light and but to really light ourselves up and that's something

00:37:52.180 people can do right now if you're feeling too heavy imagine that as you're breathing in that

00:37:56.900 you're not just breathing in air but you're breathing in light and just imagine filling

00:38:01.540 your own vessel there's enough for everyone okay you're not gonna have to pay anybody back for it

00:38:06.340 it's not transactional so and that is a start right so and use your social media channels right

00:38:12.820 use ones that are anonymous if you need to like reddit or things like that where you can find the

00:38:17.220 others so because that's where the power is going to be found right you reminded me of an incident

00:38:23.720 in my life I had a very bad mental health episode I ended up dropping out of school

00:38:33.940 and when it finally came to light you know it was the end of the school year and I had nothing to

00:38:39.060 show for it and I remember my mother saying like how did I not know that this was happening and I

00:38:45.840 said because i lied yeah because i kept it secret and if you asked me a direct question i lied like

00:38:52.540 how were you supposed to know like i just because of like you're talking about like the shame shame

00:38:59.360 and the uh all of this and i didn't know how to talk about it and so i just like i just said

00:39:05.220 nothing but sort of what we're all saying is that that's how we find each other that's how we help

00:39:11.980 each other that's how we help ourselves i think there's that sort of like when something happens

00:39:18.220 and there's that fork and some people are like well this happened to me so i don't care if it

00:39:24.180 happens to other people like everyone should suffer like i do and then there's that other

00:39:28.960 fork that's like this happened to me and i don't ever want anything like this to happen to anyone

00:39:35.120 else ever again and i'm so glad that the three of you have chosen that that right hand fork where

00:39:42.500 i'm gonna talk about it i'm gonna be honest i'm going to inspire other people to talk about it

00:39:47.880 to be honest and we can do that kind of collective grief thing that we're talking about and look how

00:39:54.760 we found each other right it's also how i met my husband like it's the best repurposing of the the

00:40:01.480 poison to medicine, right? It's the, it's the best. Anyway, I'm excited. Thank you for having me.

00:40:06.200 Thank you. Always, always a pleasure, my darling. So this one's going out to the listeners.

00:40:13.000 And I want an answer from each and every one of you, whoever it comes up for first, please.

00:40:16.840 Was there a catalyst? Was there like a signature event that snapped you out of the pit, as I call

00:40:29.300 and into action is there something you remember that was like a waking up moment or was it just

00:40:36.800 that slow outward spiraling or a combination of these things um let's start with deandra like do

00:40:44.080 you remember the moment that you managed to crawl out of the pit and what it what the rope was that

00:40:51.360 that pulled you out honestly red bird was the rope um that was my reason for getting out of it

00:40:58.280 That was my reason to keep going and to do more and to continue writing.

00:41:05.280 I really don't think that I am even halfway through that tunnel and I'm still using Red

00:41:12.960 Bird as a lifeline, but eventually I will get to the spot in the tunnel where I can

00:41:18.000 actually see the light at the end of it.

00:41:20.120 And then hopefully, hopefully then I can let go of, you know, Red Bird and that rope and

00:41:27.140 just, I've been tethered to it for the entirety of two years, writing it, publishing it, marketing

00:41:35.340 it, doing all this stuff. And now I want to focus on what it is that I'm going to, that's going to

00:41:41.060 make me truly happy. I don't know what that looks like. I mean, every day is different. Every day,

00:41:47.700 I either have a breakdown of some sort, but I can feel myself inching and inching towards that,

00:41:54.960 light at the end of everything. And you did something that most people either don't have

00:42:02.240 the courage or dare I say privilege to do is that you took a break. I quit my job. I did. I had to

00:42:10.580 because I worked in corporate America and I've been in tech sales for 25 years. And I had just

00:42:18.780 started working for this company, I was six months in when my mom died. And I just, I cannot

00:42:26.080 reckon why there's a five-day bereavement allotment. Like, what is that? Do you not

00:42:36.420 understand that this woman, my mother, has been a part of my life since inception, since the very

00:42:43.340 beginning and I just didn't feel it was proper to go back to work. And I didn't feel like I was

00:42:51.420 ready to even. So I quit. I called my boss like a couple of days after the funeral and was like,

00:42:57.920 Hey, you got a minute. Here's what's going on. Today's my last day. Take care. You know, it was

00:43:03.160 just, I knew that I needed to do it. And I I'm so blessed that I was able to, you know, have the

00:43:09.760 resources and, you know, roof over my head and all these things to be able to do that

00:43:13.880 is a blessing. And I know you're working on a follow-up to Redbird. So the story continues.

00:43:22.620 Oh, the saga continues. It's going to be all about just, you know, once that Redbird has

00:43:28.040 been identified and the grief is now settling down, what's next? It's either going to be a

00:43:34.320 second edition or a sequel to Redbird. So I don't know which one yet. It's not shaken out either

00:43:39.160 way just yet but let me get a little further along and i'll i'll keep you posted okay i think

00:43:45.060 i know the working title but i won't spoil it yeah you can spoil it it's okay spoil it spoil it

00:43:50.980 so awakening of the bluebird yes that is a working title yeah and the reason the reason why

00:44:02.460 is because we talked about the red bird, right? But bluebirds, they are such a gift. While the

00:44:10.000 red bird here is just hearkening our familial past and people that we've loved that have since

00:44:15.860 passed on, the blue bird is all about seeing the positive in everyday life. And actually,

00:44:22.400 it's a gift. I work in sales. So whenever at the end of the quarter, we get a big deal that we

00:44:27.720 didn't see coming that was forecasted, but we didn't think it was going to come at the end of

00:44:31.300 a quarter that's called a blue bird it's just a blue bird it's like a gift from the heavens

00:44:37.500 you're a gift from the heavens

00:44:40.240 well thank you kristin was there a catalyst was there a rope that pulled you out of the pit or

00:44:48.100 was it a spider web full of knots oh it was both um it was it was a grueling process it it took me

00:45:00.480 years I'm still in that process um but I feel like I would take so many little steps forward

00:45:09.240 and figure out I wanted and then I'd hit like have a wave crash over me and I would kind of

00:45:13.660 retreat again um which is where that viral and feeling kind of like I would grow and then I

00:45:19.640 would retreat back in and then I would grow again and retreat back in um I guess for me one of the

00:45:26.720 biggest catalysts was um i i won a grant to start the non-profit that i run right now um i

00:45:35.700 was just hold on hold on hold on hold on hold on wait wait wait the catalyst couldn't have been

00:45:41.940 that you won a grant because you had to apply for that grant what was the catalyst applying

00:45:47.140 for the grant or was it like bestowed upon you in some magical grant land it was pretty much

00:45:54.700 bestowed upon me um the the people at every town where i originally started volunteering

00:46:00.760 um came to me and said that they had an idea that they wanted to bring more of these support

00:46:07.200 groups that i had been volunteering running um into local communities um and they said that i

00:46:13.740 was the better co-facilitators that i had a real passion for it and they had selected me

00:46:20.200 several other people but the offering was there there was the money there was non-profit there

00:46:26.880 was the leading support groups they would help me through if I wanted my my rope kind of came

00:46:33.700 other people in that way I it took me a while I sat on it for a long time because I wasn't even

00:46:41.520 sure it was me being in shooting as I had said being enough in the shooting really

00:46:46.740 lowered my self-esteem, incompetent, everything, because I was so scared and so fearful and

00:46:53.940 traumatized. And so when people thought I was good at something, that was kind of a shock for me.

00:47:01.200 But that's that, that's that, the universe is pleased piece, right?

00:47:05.160 Yeah. You started volunteering and.

00:47:08.920 Yes. So yeah, I, I think it was a mixture of both, really, for me.

00:47:14.440 yeah amy miranda did you have a catalyst

00:47:18.500 yeah i mean i think there were i think there was a series of of unfortunate events um you know that

00:47:28.140 led to me realizing that i was the common denominator right so i think that was probably

00:47:34.800 where the catalyst became really clear that you know all of my life i had thought you know it was

00:47:41.240 these other people that were causing these problems for me um and then finally realizing

00:47:47.080 like i think the people these people had something in common and that person was me

00:47:52.080 uh because these people didn't know each other but i they had me in common um so really looking

00:47:58.300 at sort of the archetypes that i had invited into my circle and looking at sort of you know where i

00:48:03.500 was being of service and you know and looking at the patterns and i think that was the sort of zoom

00:48:09.580 out moment for me where i was like oh and again that was part of this sort of fact finding or

00:48:14.760 crime scene investigation that we do right in retrospect i just made it a process i made it

00:48:20.760 work as people who know me and have read the book or done the retreat or work with me they're like

00:48:25.780 this is very much like a game i'm like of course i gamified healing i mean i think that was part

00:48:31.600 of the adventure for me was looking at you know there were all these different things and i had

00:48:37.160 had this, you know, tremendous sort of breakdown and, you know, and then it was about trying to

00:48:42.320 give people some kind of map, um, out of it. Right. And, you know, literally there's a map

00:48:48.180 in the book. Um, but I think that was sort of, you know, that was the catalyst for me of really

00:48:53.740 looking at myself in the mirror and going, Oh, I think it's you. Um, so, and then looking at,

00:49:00.260 again, the foundation, right. And, and having those hard conversations, uh, with myself and

00:49:05.140 others right of like atonement and like all the things that come with trauma right all the things

00:49:10.560 that come with trauma kristen i don't remember if it was you or zoe flowers who said um grief is a

00:49:16.720 portal and at least it can be a portal it can be a thing that we can walk through to arrive

00:49:25.720 in a different place um i see you smiling and nodding do you want to expand on the idea

00:49:32.740 um yeah i think grief is a portal um i think i think the hard part and what makes grief

00:49:42.800 feel and trauma feel so hard is that uh sometimes you don't get a choice you kind of get sucked

00:49:49.000 through that portal um but but you have the choice how you react to it um and i i know it

00:49:57.780 sounds incredibly simple and it took me a really long time to get there um but grief is the portal

00:50:03.900 in terms of our choice um of how we react to be pulled through in that transition um

00:50:12.000 yeah yeah it's a totally different place but it's a portal listeners again i want i want you 0.70

00:50:20.900 to understand that I'm here with three people who have been through some shit, but they refused 0.99

00:50:28.760 to stay in the shit. And like we said at the jump, you know, the last thing that I ever want in this 0.99

00:50:37.120 world is for the bad things that happen to prevent us from making great things happen. And all three

00:50:45.380 of these people, Kristen, Deandra, Amy Miranda, have taken the bad thing and forced its shape,

00:50:53.800 transformed it and transmuted it into a good thing, a thing that helps, a thing that helps

00:51:01.740 themselves and helps other people. So I want to know from you all before we come to the very

00:51:10.120 tragic ending of this conversation. We may have to make this a Lamas tradition of coming together

00:51:18.660 so that we can leave before we get to the dark half of the year that we can leave some stuff

00:51:24.280 behind. But let's start with D'Andra. What is your advice for people, and I know y'all are out there

00:51:30.580 and I have been you and I get it, who feel still stuck in the pit? What's the bumper sticker

00:51:39.160 that we can slap on ourselves. Well, my advice, and I don't want this to be trite, but

00:51:47.380 when I was going through, you know, my struggles, especially with my mom and my aunt passing so,

00:51:54.440 you know, close together, I just really, really hope that everyone that listens to this

00:52:03.820 particular session, this podcast understands that grief looks differently for everybody

00:52:09.400 and it sounds different for everybody. It feels different for everybody. I just was able to

00:52:17.660 compartmentalize my grief in a way that I shifted focus away from the grief and focused on the work

00:52:25.340 of doing the work of writing the book and really sitting with the grief in my introspection of said

00:52:32.540 grief. So, I mean, it, I honestly, I hope that anybody that's listening knows that you can do

00:52:40.720 it your way, do it. However, it makes you feel comfortable. However, it makes you get up in the

00:52:46.620 morning and sleep. Okay. At night. Um, I didn't sleep for a while after my mom passed and the

00:52:54.180 day that I finished the book, the finishing of the editing and all that stuff, I slept so well.

00:53:01.520 I slept like a baby and it was the much needed sleep that I needed to just feel like a human

00:53:11.060 being again. Because what grief does is it takes away the part of you that is deeply feeling.

00:53:18.340 And we all know that we have to die at some point. And my mom always said that

00:53:25.080 there's not much any of us does alone in this world except for die.

00:53:31.520 and I really, really just hope that everybody understands that grief is cyclical.

00:53:40.420 You'll have your ups, your downs, and you'll bring it all back around again,

00:53:45.080 and it just ebbs and flows.

00:53:47.720 So that's my parting shot.

00:53:51.860 Amy, Miranda, any piece of advice you want to add to that?

00:53:55.160 I know I saw you nodding in agreement quite heavily with everything Deandra and Kristen were saying.

00:53:59.960 so you're muted babe of course that's i see i'm trying to be polite um so i don't yell as a

00:54:11.000 reaction to everyone yeah great yeah um i think i mean yeah yeah turn them back around turn them

00:54:20.360 back around but i think this idea of you know healing is cyclical right and and seeing it as

00:54:26.360 a lot of people say well i thought it was more healed than this and what what you know i that's

00:54:31.560 not a measure while we're alive that's not what we're doing right it's it's like are you a step

00:54:36.740 ahead of where you were yesterday and that's where i would say you know my advice is become an

00:54:40.860 alchemist right as soon as you buckle yourself in and decide to become the alchemist and you're

00:54:46.820 going to take the energy and do something with it instead of being in service to it in the same way

00:54:53.380 because we're always in service to it but I think that's the biggest thing is becoming the alchemist

00:54:57.500 so that's what I would invite people to do right just to take control and take the reins and see

00:55:01.500 where that's going to take you in terms of the adventure and that it doesn't have to feel heavy

00:55:07.440 right and I think that's the biggest thing is making sure I always say many hands make light

00:55:12.440 work and I mean that double right it's light work to be with others it's great to be able to open up

00:55:19.220 your heart um but i think you know that's what we need right now is this idea of really becoming

00:55:24.260 our own alchemists and managing our own energy because that changes turns everything back around

00:55:29.000 turning back around and this there's there's this like you know capitalist brainwashing idea that

00:55:37.140 of the quick fix of the easy money of the get rich quick scheme and i think that for a lot of people

00:55:44.280 if they're taking on this healing journey or communicative journey or whatever journey that

00:55:51.540 they're on, that if I'm not fixed tomorrow, then it didn't work and I quit. But again,

00:55:58.840 all of our guests are here telling you it's a spiral, telling you that you're going to come

00:56:03.940 back around and around and around. And again, Kristen, you know, we follow the wheel of the

00:56:09.260 year here and we can do that with our grief too that there will be summer and winter and spring

00:56:15.400 when things grow and fall when leaves drop from the trees and hit the ground and that all of that

00:56:23.600 is okay you're doing amazing and we love you and we just want you to do great things

00:56:30.580 don't let the bad things that happen stop you from doing something great and it doesn't have

00:56:37.840 to be tomorrow and it might not even be next week, but I know we all have greatness in us

00:56:44.380 and the world wants to bang it out. The world wants us to not be great because it doesn't

00:56:53.320 serve capitalism, because it doesn't serve all of the isms that are coming up in this world.

00:57:01.340 being well does not serve the industries being happy does not serve the industries so even if

00:57:09.440 you can like take where you are and get mad and just heal as like an anti-capitalist protest

00:57:18.600 it's a revolutionary act right it's a revolutionary act to heal so everybody

00:57:26.540 deandra the book is red wing um how else can our listeners support you get to know you

00:57:34.120 red bird red bird because your name is my last name is wing yeah yeah yeah yeah red bird

00:57:40.840 all the time it's all good so they can find it on my website books by deandra.com it's also on

00:57:51.180 Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and Book People. And social media? My social media, I just have LinkedIn

00:57:58.740 and Instagram. And my Instagram handle is just my name, Deandra Ford Wing, all one word. Same goes

00:58:06.640 for LinkedIn, Deandra Ford Wing, all one word, and you'll find me. And of course, all of this will be

00:58:11.440 in the show notes. Kristen, Lightning Struck Gardens, I know you don't really have a social

00:58:15.200 media presence but tell us about the etsy shop again yeah so i have an etsy shop for lightning

00:58:21.180 struck gardens so every purchase of um a native plant or a painted pottery or a seed packet helps

00:58:28.960 us keep um the funding alive for to send those resources at survivors for free um right now my

00:58:37.200 etsy shop is really low because i'm also taking my products to farmers markets and doing really

00:58:42.620 well there um so that's a little bit shocking but i'm grateful to have that so um if you don't see

00:58:50.780 what you want the etsy shop just message me i have a lot in stock that i haven't put up because i

00:58:55.520 keep it for farmers markets so i'm there to help anyone um and deandra and if you would like any

00:59:02.020 seeds or anything to memorial gardens i am very happy to send those along as well please just

00:59:07.540 reach out to me. That's a big part of my non-profit is creating memorial guards for other people.

00:59:14.560 I will say after we had a landslide that wiped out a piece of my property and one of the first

00:59:20.940 things that happened after that was that Kristen sent me a big envelope full of seeds to rehabilitate

00:59:27.920 the land that I lost and I love the the it literally and I love the metaphor of that too

00:59:34.560 that you're sending out seeds to help people rebuild and memorialize i love it amy miranda

00:59:41.420 the book is what we've forgotten the card deck is what we've forgotten tell us about how listeners

00:59:47.400 can support your work um you can support my work by just uh going to amymiranda.com or what we've

00:59:54.040 forgotten.com and you can get in touch with me there or just imagine sending me a message through

00:59:58.240 the universe. I usually pick those up too, or dream time. Yeah. And again, I just want to thank

01:00:05.020 you all, Kristen, Deandra, Amy, for role modeling for me and for us, that what happens to us doesn't

01:00:15.500 have to bring us down. That we can take that energy, we can put it into books, we can put it

01:00:21.620 into seeds we can put it into conversations like this i just couldn't possibly be more grateful i

01:00:28.880 feel like we've got so much more to talk about um but let's do this again let's do this again

01:00:35.900 and again and again and again and again and again and again until we all are out of the pit

01:00:41.900 holding hands around the pit and singing and around the world around the world

01:00:49.420 Deandra Fordwing, Amy Miranda, Kristen Renaud

01:00:53.040 please support their work

01:00:54.740 and you can also support their work

01:00:57.180 by supporting yourself

01:00:59.460 by lifting yourself

01:01:01.520 by crawling up out of that pit

01:01:05.160 Happy Lamas again

01:01:07.380 we are at the halfway point

01:01:09.440 between summer solstice and fall equinox

01:01:11.500 now is the time

01:01:12.840 let it go

01:01:14.760 do not bring it with you

01:01:17.540 into the winter

01:01:18.580 now is the time let's have a beautiful summer a joyful summer and we'll see you all soon 0.98

01:01:25.880 and blessed fucking be blessed fucking be 0.99

01:01:29.860 you must be a witch if you want to support the missing witches project buy our books 1.00

01:01:39.460 new moon magic and missing witches and our deck of oracles the missing witches deck of oracles

01:01:45.380 or join the coven. Find everything you need to know at missingwitches.com.

Missing Witches - August 01, 2025

LAMMAS 2025： Grief Is A Portal With Kristen Renaud, Diandra Ford-Wing, And Amy Miranda

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