00:00:25.080let in the people the beautiful beautiful people
00:00:30.440oh here they come all the loves people we know people we haven't gotten to meet before
00:00:40.960it's really such a pleasure i feel sort of the waves as you arrive0.87
00:00:46.920of ease and calm and joy I don't know about you guys this is a rough fucking eclipse season0.56
00:00:56.120or a rough spring or a rough three years I don't know whichever perspective you want to stretch0.98
00:01:03.500that too but there's a robin outside my window magic is gay magic is alive gay is alive queer0.99
00:01:13.180is magic we are here it's fucking pride we can love and support each other tell stories of our0.99
00:01:22.680queer gay trans liminal magic and the infinity of ourselves and love and support each other0.97
00:01:28.520and just be in the juiciness of these glorious guests um let's let's pass the torch like a0.53
00:01:38.200welcome. Let's pretend we're dancing around a circle. I am Risa from the Missing Witches
00:01:43.640podcast. I'm so happy to have you here. I'll pass it to my friend and collaborator, Amy.
00:01:51.920Do you want to say hi, little Ainsie? I sure do. Happy Letha, everyone. This is the time when the
00:01:58.040sun is at its fullest bloom, and we are just bathed in its light. And that's what we want
00:02:05.060to do here is bathe in a little prismatic light, a little rainbow hinted light that the sun makes
00:02:11.140when it passes through different things, when it passes through a crystal ball, when it passes0.99
00:02:15.880through raindrops, when the sun's light passes through all these things, it makes a fucking0.99
00:02:21.120rainbow. So we're here today to enthusiastically say gay. Whether we are gay or not, whether we1.00
00:02:30.040choose that word whether we choose the word straight or prismatic we need to say the words
00:02:37.940that are our existence and so we wanted to come together and say with all of us here today
00:02:45.060and all of you listening at home our whole coven it's a word but it's not just a word
00:02:53.080It is a set of ethics and virtues and a way of being in the world, queer, in the old-timey way, queer, different, strange, unexpected, all of those things.
00:03:10.020And as witches, regardless of our gender expression, regardless of our sexuality and how we express our sexuality, because we are witches, there is queerness in us.
00:20:44.360And sometimes it's naming the ways that people are, beliefs that people have in certain places.
00:20:49.640And when it's put on, we actually have a way to, you know, advocate to say this is not okay and we can take it off and some change can actually happen.
00:20:59.920That's the little baby hope I give myself.
00:21:01.720yeah I'm I'm glad you you brought up like word specific because I did want to
00:21:07.460talk about this notion of vocabulary Regina's in the comments saying like I always knew that
00:21:13.140I was gender fluid I just never had the vocabulary and Jasper I know that you use he him and they
00:21:20.300them pronouns because you sort of want to disassociate yourself from cis men who you know
00:21:29.440hurt you can can you speak to like the necessary the necessity of having the vocabulary for who
00:21:37.600we are and how we feel and moon and bex if you want to jump in after on the topic of vocabulary
00:21:43.020yeah um i actually had a really hard time figuring out my gender until i was 21 and i heard the word
00:21:54.460genderqueer for the first time um and I experienced it in my body as sparks um and that is the power0.99
00:22:04.280of the power of like spell work and magic and all of that um and queers are especially magical when0.97
00:22:11.240it comes to vocabulary because if that word doesn't exist we're gonna fucking make it0.99
00:22:15.020like you know um my child uses tree as a pronoun because why no fuck not you know um0.98
00:22:23.760And, yeah, not wanting to be lumped in with cis men is definitely something that comes from harm that I've experienced growing up in a world that sees AFAB people as a commodity, as disposable, as objects.0.94
00:22:46.360but that's my stuff to work on um and like detaching harm from gender is just another
00:22:54.520gender queer journey that I'm on right now um yeah so like that is a way that witchcraft and
00:23:04.060queerness intersect is like creating language that we need creating that vocabulary that
00:23:09.120validates us and lets people see us a certain way and also calls our community towards us
00:23:16.080i think is the really important part um and before i pass the torch i wanted to say something about
00:23:22.820moon what moon just said is that okay okay um so moon said like we know how to be outcasts
00:23:30.720and i love that like i think that's where bills like don't say gay come from because
00:23:38.020when we say we know how to be outcasts we're saying like we don't need you you have no power
00:23:45.360over us and that creates like a big trigger of abandonment in the people who have the power
00:23:52.640so I agree with X I think that it does come from fear and hate is like the blanket that's covering
00:24:00.900that fear um because when we say we know how to live without you the powers that be are like oh0.73
00:24:10.240maybe who I am is not powerful enough so yeah on the subject of fear and and cis men my my spouse0.69
00:24:20.100is one and he I think he um would be okay with me saying this but maybe it's society who knows but0.75
00:24:29.000he has a tendency when he is afraid for that fear to immediately turn into anger
00:24:34.380if something you know the dog ran away once and for a second he was very afraid and then he was
00:24:40.860very angry and and that's how it comes up and I've learned to recognize it and not
00:24:46.420you know be super reactive to it because I recognize that it is fear but at the same time
00:24:51.600for us in our relationship let me just put it very very personally for us in our relationship
00:24:59.200I have to keep reminding him, like, I recognize that this is fear, but when you bring your angry
00:25:05.260vibes into the room, that's traumatic for me. You know, like, I just, I understand that you're
00:25:12.660afraid, but I don't want to be in a room with someone who's angry like this. And I feel like
00:25:18.260this is what our society has done, especially to men who aren't allowed to be afraid, but they are0.98
00:25:26.320allowed to be very fucking angry and hateful and violent but they're not allowed to be afraid0.80
00:25:32.880so I think that while we can have some compassion for the fear that people have of our overwhelming0.98
00:25:39.560power and our ability to adapt and change and get into tiny holes like chipmunks you know that other
00:25:48.360people might spaces that other people might not be able to even get into there's a limit to my
00:25:54.480compassion when people aren't recognizing that their fear has turned to anger and now they are
00:26:00.780actively hurting other people i have a question about that um for the panel we we were we did a
00:26:09.260panel with black witches and doc bev said something that really sat with me um she said you know our
00:26:18.900our job right now our magic right now is to feed protesters no matter what side they're on
00:26:25.380is to like we use our magic to care for people um to care for the people like on both sides like
00:26:32.620i she's like i know you heard me on both sides like i don't care about their politics right now
00:26:37.120we care for the people like that is the spell that's our like unmasking spell it's our care
00:26:42.280spell or whatever um what do you think our our care spell is right now our our our anti-hate
00:26:48.940spell is when it comes to don't say gay or when it comes to a whole raft of of laws and attitudes
00:26:56.540that are attacking queer people like what's what's our care spell what's our move
00:27:00.380that's a really good question I mean I feel really almost reactionary in a way that I'm like1.00
00:27:14.040I only want to encircle queer people and um you know it goes back to and that's just me1.00
00:27:21.480and that's like you know every time someone tries to get me to do some kind of collaboration0.99
00:27:27.200or something that moves me away from that I'm really stubborn um and I I think that came out
00:27:33.680of like when I was doing the death work training and you know I was using the name moon and that
00:27:38.220was like new for me also um I guess someone asked me like what my pronouns were and I was like I
00:27:46.260guess she her you know it was really new to me and then eventually it's just become like they also
00:27:52.080And part of the reason why I use queer up front and have changed my pronouns over time is because I want to signal, like Jasper was saying, you know, like to each other and also draw each other closer.
00:28:06.960And, you know, it's in solidarity, particularly with trans folks.0.96
00:28:11.340I think it helps normalize whatever normal is, you know, because I don't really believe
00:28:16.640in normal, but, um, you know, the, the experience it's like, oh, this is what people are doing.
00:49:33.620um but Zhijana herself describes femininity I'm using scare quotes for those who can't see me0.82
00:49:42.480femininity as having infinite variety so it's interesting to me that she would choose those
00:49:52.340words infinite variety and yet exclude part of that infiniteness because we are infinite you
00:50:02.900know, we've been talking about vocabulary, and we've been even talking about the plurality of
00:50:07.160our bodies, not just how we feel inside our bodies, but our bodies themselves.
00:50:14.620I don't know where I'm going this, maybe I'll use it.
00:50:19.640Again, to me, it keeps coming back to this interesting hypocrisy of saying one thing
00:50:25.880and doing another, or, you know, saying that Jesus is the truth, the way, and the light,0.68
00:50:32.660And also we should literally murder people who don't behave the way that we do.
00:50:39.080And again, I don't really have a question.0.75
00:50:41.080I just, I always want to just say out loud in the same way that we're saying words and educating about other ways of being and other ways of thinking.
00:50:50.280I just want to sort of like take a highlighter and highlight the hypocrisy as much as I can.
00:50:57.640because people like like we said you know your our beliefs uh inform how we behave so if our
00:51:05.620beliefs are like fully hypocritical what what do we what do we even do with that again that's that's
00:51:12.280more of a rhetorical question i guess but if anybody has an answer like how do we contend
00:51:18.300with such rampant hypocrisy in our society is maybe my question one thing that i talk about
00:51:25.260with people when I interview them and try to to talk get them to talk about their queerness if
00:51:30.560they're not already in to it or their their witchiness or their you know um those intersections
00:51:39.580is I find that sometimes people are are more identifying with like how both of those things
00:51:47.520have been suppressed and you know pushed into the closet or pushed you know into like spaces
00:51:54.880where you're you're afraid to you know to claim it um and i do think that it's extremely hypocritical
00:52:04.700and also like i'm i'm starting a new project called querying the moon um with my friend who's
00:52:11.280been doing all these like you know she's an astrologer um and maybe i'll be reaching out
00:52:15.920to all of you to see if you want to come talk with us um at some point but part of it is like
00:52:20.420what you're saying about um you know the femininity um that is really uh a space that
00:52:31.060I'm kind of like stuck on lately because like I love femininity but also I'm like where is
00:52:40.540the inclusivity where is the you know the layer where are the layers um you know because
00:52:48.860if you know it's about birth then we're all part of that we're all connected and
00:52:55.020why does it have to be you know so like um I mean it's not I guess it's just it bothers me
00:53:03.340and so it inspired me to do another project because I'm like there has to be more
00:53:09.700you know conversation about queering queering everything you know so
00:53:16.360i want to say something about um well first yeah i identify as them really like intentionally
00:53:29.120because i think there is just so the history of misogyny especially around belief practices across
00:53:36.580so many different religions is just and our society and all of our systems is so strong
00:53:44.780it is so laden in all of the things we're doing and it is a part of transphobia it is a part it
00:53:50.940is that is not irrelevant to you know femme phobia is not not a part of this conversation it's um and
00:53:58.860i think that is because it's deeply powerful and it deeply connects all of us in any body in any
00:54:04.540identity um with our own intuition and with our own bodies and our own knowingness in a lot of
00:54:09.980of different ways. And so I also think that when you were asking around, you know, queerness and
00:54:18.520magic, you know, I think one of it is one of the ways and that connects us because from a really
00:54:23.880young age, we've looked around at the things we were told and at the ways we were told to be and
00:54:29.120at the ways we were, you know, expected to behave and thought to ourselves, no, like, that's not
00:54:36.400right there's something wrong here and we somehow knew we had the own our own agency to make
00:54:42.760something to be different and that is our first magic that's our first spell a releasing of
00:54:49.000ourselves from the expectations of the world and maybe our first families and maybe our teachers
00:54:54.080and maybe our priests or whoever it was and I think there is um that helps us to do more spells
00:55:00.900to learn more magic to build bigger community it all comes from that first real like spark
00:55:07.320bex you told us once maybe not in these exact words but please expand um that like astrology
00:55:18.300tarot these are tools of queer spirituality can you like please expand yeah absolutely one of the
00:55:27.480reasons i do i actually have a chapter in my my book called queer spiritual practices astrology
00:55:32.760and tarot so i very much say this and i very much believe this and you know i one it is just like
00:55:39.160empirical evidence we are using it we are you look you're talking about we have normalized it
00:55:43.960in queer community of like you know your signs or you know you don't know them but you know you'll
00:55:47.840be asked them like there is just like we've normalized thought moon rituals like following
00:55:52.480the moon and also practices of tarot. I think it's because so many queer folks have been either1.00
00:55:59.240pushed out or rejected or raised without institutional religion. So there's more space
00:56:04.000in our community for other ways to connect, other ways to feel small, other ways to understand our
00:56:10.840place in the universe and in greater things. And so I think astrology and tarot have really taken
00:56:19.060on those practices and I like the balance of them because I feel that astrology as we practice it as
00:56:25.240a community helps us to do the feeling small part that I think is really important the knowing that
00:56:30.660we are one part of a bigger thing and the tarot is that other balance which allows us to say
00:56:37.100and I have agency and like I can build a practice that helps me better understand myself and what I
00:56:44.760want and name where I'm going and the internal growth. We've got a coven mate with a question.
00:56:56.420Julie. Hi, Julie. Hi, everyone. Thank you for this lovely conversation. I have a question about0.99
00:57:05.080this concept of queering everything, which I think Moon mentioned. It's something I've been
00:57:11.900thinking a lot recently for myself I'm less interested in identifying as queer and I'm more
00:57:19.340interested in a queer process which for me means I'm opting out of compulsory heterosexuality
00:57:27.660and I mean this is something everyone can do and so I guess like I want to like queer queerness
00:57:36.920and talk about like this idea of I'm queer that person's straight when it's like we can we can
00:57:45.520all opt out of compulsory heterosexuality we can all opt out of a particular gender performance
00:57:53.480and so I'd love to hear from you about if you have any ideas of how to bring that to people
00:58:00.900who consider themselves straight, who consider themselves cis, who, you know, upon further
00:58:07.920inspection may realize they're not, or may just realize that this internalized queer phobia,
00:58:14.720they are projecting on to other people. You know, I think like many oppressive structures,0.77
00:58:20.600they hurt everyone, not just the marginalized individual. And I had, like, I have this sense
00:58:27.920that um people holding on to these particular notions of well I want to be an ally to queer
00:58:36.020people but I am straight and like why is it so important to identify as straight like what is
00:58:45.120that I don't really know what that means to be straight other than like maybe in a dating profile
00:58:51.060you're trying to indicate who you're open to dating but in like the real life I'm more interested in
00:58:57.160like, what are we all doing to take down these normativities? And I would throw into the mix
00:59:03.000of that imaginormativity, which is the prioritization of romantic relationships over
00:59:10.160other structures, which I view as like very, very interrelated to all of this. And sometimes
00:59:15.440queer folks perpetuate imaginormativity as like part of the liberation dialogue. So I just shared
00:59:22.200a lot but like basically my quest question is um yeah if you've had any thoughts of how you talk
00:59:28.840to quote-unquote straight cis people about these things yeah i i am really curious about this
00:59:41.680question um and i think i'm trying to understand this idea of um
00:59:48.960why why does calling myself straight matter um and this goes along with why the words cisgender
01:00:01.200matters um because if I'm saying I'm queer that is me like highlighting something that like um
01:00:14.600it's a hardship that's worth bearing for me um so
01:00:21.520hmm yeah I'm I'm struggling maybe one of the other two can speak because I'm struggling with
01:00:30.980this idea of queering everything which I love but I also want to um
01:00:40.220not dilute the practice by by like if everyone is doing it it's no longer queer I I'm struggling so0.99
01:00:51.380maybe someone else can I'll go I mean I think like the the queering of everything is just1.00
01:00:59.860it's saying that we need to take up more space and so literally there's all these like you know
01:01:07.700practices for the divine and there's practices for you know every kind of straight thing is
01:01:14.060available to you um my my project the person i'm working with was leading like a group of
01:01:22.500mostly you know straight mostly cisgendered women who you know were worshiping the divine
01:01:29.560and where we met was like we need to do something for our community we need to keep querying the
01:01:36.180conversation. And to, to, to kind of speak to what you're saying, Julie, you know, I love what you're
01:01:42.620saying. Um, like when I interview people, um, and they're like, well, I don't really know if I
01:01:50.560identify as queer. And I start talking to them about like, you know, well, do you consider
01:01:57.440yourself like a non-conforming person? Cause usually we're not in conversation. If you don't
01:02:03.420like, let's be real. I'm not going after the people that, you know, I want to talk to people
01:02:07.660that are a little bit weird, a little bit out there, you know, and, and like to rock the boat.
01:02:14.720And then they start sharing like, yeah, well, you know, I'm poly or, you know, I have relationships
01:02:20.440with women or, you know, same sex. And so I'm like, well, that's why queer is so beautiful
01:02:25.660because it is really inclusive. It doesn't talk directly about who you fuck. It's really about0.99
01:02:32.280like, how you don't identify in the, you know, the samey, samey, samey world. And you're like,
01:02:38.500I am, you know, more comfortable in this kind of like, you know, fluid space. And so
01:02:47.520I think when people identify straight, you know, sometimes they don't even know what they're saying,
01:02:55.760you know, or, or maybe they just haven't had the right experience yet, you know, they're just one
01:03:02.040you know, experience away from questioning. Um, and so maybe this pride that'll, that'll change
01:03:10.120for them, but I don't know. That's the, that's just my, my take on it. Um, I do try to talk to
01:03:18.620people about that when I can. Um, I, I, I agree with, I think it's a great question and the idea
01:03:29.120of, you know, can we queer up our relationships? And I would throw, you know, monogamous normativity0.54
01:03:34.880to that as well, you know, just being able to opt in. I think queerness, because we didn't have
01:03:41.520models for so long, we were, you know, forming our relationship, kind of forced to form our
01:03:47.740relationships without models, but, and in so doing found, as we all did in all the areas of queerness,
01:03:53.720spaciousness, agency, autonomy, things that were truer and better for us. But what I do,
01:04:01.780I think something that sticks me a smidge, and maybe Jasper, this is something that
01:04:06.640you're thinking of. The thing is also, we put in that labor. Queer folks have been kind of
01:04:14.060forced out and then are living in a still heteronormative, cisnormative world,0.82
01:04:18.620fighting for these things, fighting especially for visibly queer, not having the
01:04:23.600privileges of heteronormativity in a still privileging heteronormative world and so yes
01:04:29.560it's great I want everyone to be able to like form the relationships they have to form the
01:04:34.720community they have but there's also a history of us doing a lot of work and labor continuing to be
01:04:39.580marginalized and then folks who aren't in that of experience being like that looks great I'm
01:04:44.480gonna take it I'm gonna go do that now isn't that for me too and so I think there's a really
01:04:48.780delicate balance of just understanding um that history and how we can as you do that to bring
01:04:56.220the liberation of queer and trans folks with you or center it um as that's happening and as that
01:05:03.260ripples out because it doesn't always and often doesn't happen um when change is going on it's
01:05:09.020still it doesn't always like ripple to where it started so just like hone in for folks to just
01:05:14.380kind of manage like their privileges around that as well um but and i also like something you said
01:05:21.420around like getting between this allyship like yes like we don't have folks to be like i'm a great
01:05:26.540ally and so i'll do this but also yes be in it with me and i think um i like that i think that
01:05:32.620is the path towards liberation when we are in this together and uh alok uh says something who's a
01:05:39.740non-binary incredible activists and artists and they were being interviewed about they're also
01:05:46.300kind of um have their own femme expression where they part of their activism is um keeping their
01:05:52.840body hair and talking about it while also identifying and showing really femme um high
01:05:57.780femme ways and it's incredible and they have a uh they were being interviewed once and this you know
01:06:03.980person was like how can I help you right like how can I be there for you and like what do you need
01:06:09.380so that you can live and they were like I'm living right like they're like I am I am living I'm I'm
01:06:15.600free and I want to know like how are you being trapped by the gender binary in the suit that
01:06:20.540you're wearing boring man and I didn't say this this is absolutely paraphrasing but the idea was
01:06:24.980kind of like yes please help me and like what how can I help you like how can we be in this together
01:06:30.580so that we are both like freed you know from these constraints and I think that approach
01:07:05.360uh who we interviewed um similar and then you and then to to hear the story is really similar you
01:07:12.840know she says that when she you know she started like removing her facial hair when she was like
01:07:18.08013 and it was this like secret like it was and it was a secret that cost her so much like it was
01:07:24.300exhausting and and then when she you know went through a series of experiences in her body and
01:07:32.940in her life that allowed her to feel like she could share that and started to grow in it one
01:07:40.480it was exhausting in ways that she was totally unprepared for like it felt like her whole body
01:07:46.600and her whole life was just like bowled over and needed to just adjust to the exhaustion of being
01:07:52.280seen in new ways to being constantly alert to processing fear you know so I think that's you
01:07:59.640know and something that a space a gift that we can give each other when we are around friends
01:08:05.260who are coming out or who are like taking these brave steps is like how can I treat this like
01:08:10.180the act of fertility that it is the act of like birthing that it is like how can I support you
01:08:16.380in helping you birth the world because that's part of what you're doing for all of us and I've had
01:08:22.320people do it for me when I had a kid and I think we can do that for each other and then she also
01:08:28.200said like she felt queer ancestors stand up like she felt the presence of ancestors that
01:08:37.620couldn't be seen before be seen around her and it that is like a an emotional story for me when0.53
01:08:45.780I think about it and I I hope that you feel your all your queer ancestors standing and being like0.56
01:08:53.300we aren't in the archives our stories couldn't be told but we exceed the archives because of0.98
01:08:59.460the lives that you're living and seeding I want to come back to this question because I do want
01:09:05.520to hear this as like kind of your gift to the listeners we're going to share this audience for
01:09:12.740Letha maybe it's something you're going to do or maybe it's what they can do what's what's what's
01:09:18.700your what's your what's your strawberry ritual what's what's your what's your solstice offering
01:09:23.940what should we all go and do together today sweet friends um bex you got one
01:09:31.560sure i would say yeah i i think there is something really powerful about ancestry and
01:09:39.140queer and transestry and as you were talking i was just like chills and energy and flowing so
01:09:45.680So I'm really big on looking at and thinking about queer folks in our own lineage and thinking about the folks that have come before us and, you know, paved in this way that do really hover and watch and around pride.
01:10:00.760It's, you know, Marsha P. Johnson, Sylvia Rivera, really thinking about those folks that started the riots and were there.
01:10:07.300And so I always like have little altars for them and dig and learn and read over their quotes and see what wisdom they have for us today.
01:10:18.380So I'll do that. And I encourage you all to kind of look at your own roots and find the chosen ancestors that are waiting to connect with you as well.
01:10:28.260i'm so glad you brought up sylvia rivera because she's not as famous as marcia um but she also0.89
01:10:37.920took a lot more fucking heat she was angry every right to be angry um about how trans women1.00
01:10:47.860especially were being treated in new york at the time in the world just in new york0.99
01:10:52.020Um, but she was booed, um, at gay liberation marches by, I think, if I'm remembering my
01:11:04.320history correctly, um, cis gay men mostly.
01:11:10.980And there was this, um, controversy over RuPaul's drag race.
01:11:20.280People were saying RuPaul was transphobic.
01:11:22.020because RuPaul was saying, well, trans women are women. So there are women on this show.
01:11:28.180So it's kind of like, okay, we get it. Like we, you know, trans women are a big part of the drag
01:11:32.660community. And at first I went into it, like, you know, there are way bigger enemies,
01:11:40.420surely in the queer community than RuPaul. But then when I kind of sat with it for a minute,
01:11:46.500I was like, it hurts more. It actually hurts more when someone who is an ally, I'm using
01:11:57.240scare quotes again, it hurts more when someone that you think would be onside turns out to not
01:12:04.620be on side so what what do we do when we find prejudice within our safe brave spaces what do
01:12:16.280we do when we're not talking to like straight pastors who want us to die but rather like
01:12:22.580people who, yeah, I mean, what do we do?
01:12:33.440Yeah. Again, this comes to language for me. And often what I say is I would like you to pause
01:12:42.620and try to understand why that might be painful for me.
01:12:45.840um and the first layer you have to get through is the defensiveness of like people digging their
01:12:55.920heels in and being like no I'm not homophobic or no I'm not transphobic I have a transgender friend
01:13:01.540you know um that kind of stuff um I'm so glad that Sylvia Rivera got brought up too I actually
01:13:11.080just went and grabbed her picture off of my ancestor altar to share with anybody who can see
01:13:18.600Marsha's actually standing right next to her in this picture um yeah I
01:13:26.240so something that Alok Vimanan does that I think is beautiful is they begin they get a lot of
01:13:38.960death threats and hate mail and all kinds of stuff and they approach it with love and I didn't
01:13:46.200you know I used to be like no we should approach them with bricks but like um every time they get0.95
01:13:54.620some sort of like you are ugly and disgusting or you know something like that alok starts with like0.86
01:14:01.880I am so sorry that somebody hurt you so bad that you now have to hate me um so that is the0.98
01:14:12.240approach that I have been trying to take lately because I kind of want to be the one who throws
01:14:18.940the first volatile cocktail and so like I'm learning to resist that urge yeah I I do uh you0.77
01:14:26.860know we're talking about pride month so we have to sort of talk about stonewall a little bit we're0.98
01:14:32.780talking about sylvia rivera we're talking about throwing the first brick i mean there's got to be
01:14:38.140a space for that too right i mean we're all loving each other and supporting each other and we're
01:14:42.580saying i'm sorry that something hurt you but at what point do we throw the first brick
01:14:47.740when we when loving doesn't work bex i feel like you have an answer to this too when do we throw
01:14:56.720the first break well um you know i am a little of the let's not throw bricks at each other because
01:15:04.020we are throwing bricks at each other and it hurts i i really i i am really afraid honestly of some
01:15:13.080of the ways in which our community can really dig each other down um and i think that is a part of
01:15:20.060oppression. I think that is encouraged by systems. I think they want us fighting at each other
01:15:26.680instead of at them. I think that, yes, it hurts more. And I think that hurt and that pain should
01:15:36.540be acknowledged and valued and addressed. And also, I think that we've been put to get LGBTQIA
01:15:44.820plus everything all of our gender all of our sexuality all of our relationships how and who
01:15:50.180all of the things have been oh well you're one community because we decide like because there's
01:15:56.100a normative over here and like there's power in that and also we don't know each other's experiences
01:16:01.680we when you factor in race when you factor in ability when you factor in culture
01:16:05.280the idea that we're supposed to and can you know have this expectation to fully understand what
01:16:12.180other people are going through and always say the right thing always do the right thing and like
01:16:15.780keep up it's a job it is my professional job to keep up with with um career community
01:16:23.960great terminology with equity and it takes work and I just I look at trends I also look at some
01:16:30.860you know I think there's not an uh it's not an accident that elders that especially gay lesbian
01:16:40.460and older trans folks like are, have a longer learning curve. And I think if you look at who's
01:16:47.540considered a TERF, it's, there's usually a generational gap, especially if you're looking
01:16:51.260at queer folks. I think the learning that needs to happen hasn't been done. I think the trauma
01:16:56.640that didn't experience living in what was a, what heteronormativity, trans, you know, trans
01:17:02.560and cisnormativity looks like when they were growing up hasn't been healed. And like, I just
01:17:07.420think there's so much it's so easy to throw bricks at each other and I think like well let's
01:17:13.320save that for for other let's let's save those bricks and build a house of our queer is what I0.99
01:17:20.420want to say I'm gonna train them up yeah I'm gonna build something that's so Bex oh I'm gonna build0.99
01:17:29.320something out of those bricks I'm not gonna hurl them at cops yet when Jasper and I run out of
01:17:37.220love that that'll be way far in the future though I think I feel like it it's pretty infinite I do
01:17:43.600want to say one thing though that Julie's question made me think of and that's that
01:17:46.960that Whitefeather Hunter said or says that magic is a process not a product and maybe we can apply
01:17:55.080that to queer and queering as well that it it is a constant and infinite process and not a product
01:18:02.840like capitalist pink washing would have us believe that once a month we're going to be super
01:18:11.200inclusive but only if you buy the target range of pride t-shirts um none none of you know or these
01:18:18.660you know i was talking to uh sherry shown the other day about juneteenth and the same phenomenon
01:18:25.360on of like you can buy the napkins with like for your barbecue on Juneteenth on them or you can go
01:18:32.320and seek out like a black owned stall at your local farmer's market and if if you want to talk
01:18:37.800about emancipation and liberation that that's probably going to be the better choice and in
01:18:42.440pride month I think we can find that too we can be deep in the process and sort of not so much the
01:18:48.260products yeah can I make a suggestion piggybacked off of that really quick please do um yeah if
01:18:59.480I buy rainbow stuff from target not gonna lie but I'm also gonna encourage people to
01:19:06.760donate to queer places um like the trans women of color collective could always use donations