00:05:09.880So for those who may be new to the Missing Witches podcast, you both describe it as a, quote, research-based feminist occult storytelling project.
00:05:23.320which is so great. Risa, why don't we start with you? How did Missing Witches come to be and what
00:05:31.880is your intention for the podcast? Yeah, so actually, originally, I was brainstorming a
00:05:39.100fictional podcast. And in the fictional podcast, I thought maybe that these two women would have0.99
00:05:47.880a podcast where they would do witch history. And then somehow that seemed so much more interesting
00:05:56.340than whatever fiction I was trying to cook up. Yeah. And then I called Amy about it because
00:06:02.020she's like the natural collaborator for that. Our sort of witch improvisations predate the podcast
00:06:08.820together by years. And we've just been like kind of creatively inspired by each other. Amy is like
00:06:15.320a huge inspiration to me as a maker and as a person and so I called her and told her I had
00:06:22.520this idea for a podcast called Missing Witches where we would just get to do this history research
00:06:27.600and Amy was like yeah fuck we're doing that and then like three seconds later three seconds later
00:06:35.600she was like I've claimed the Instagram the Twitter the Facebook I have the Gmail account0.96
00:06:41.140the url is available it's a sign like we're doing this we're launching so that's kind of the story
00:06:47.240of how that little light started i think that i i jumped on it so um immediately because as soon
00:06:53.900as risa said it i was like oh obviously that's what we should be doing i mean these were
00:06:58.180conversations that we were having like risa said for 10 years before we sort of formalizing the
00:07:04.160curiosity into the podcast so it seemed like such a natural and obvious thing for us to do i was
00:07:10.160almost like, duh, why haven't we been doing this for however long? Exactly. So the thrust of
00:07:19.000Missing Witches seems to be about featuring a historical figure and sometimes someone who's
00:07:27.320still alive, who is someone who either has identified as a witch or who we might identify
00:07:36.760as a witch due to either their orientation in the world or the kind of work that they make.
00:07:42.860So how do you decide which witch you're going to feature on each episode? Amy, why don't we start
00:07:51.060with you? The first season, Risa had a few witches already in mind because the idea had sort of been0.98
00:07:58.580germinating, like she said, as fiction. But I think it's just the ones that we get really excited
00:08:03.420about like I remember Risa calling me up to tell me this story about Monica show and I was like oh
00:08:08.500tell me tell me more tell me more so uh whoever gets us really excited we make a long list and
00:08:14.880then we chop it down to who gets our witchy juices flowing the most and whose story we want to
00:08:20.400research more and whose story we want to tell and some of the witches that you featured
00:08:26.560I'll just run down a quick list of some of my favorite episodes you've done Pamela Coleman
00:08:32.120Smith, who many listeners might know as the illustrator of what was originally called the
00:08:38.460Rider Waite tarot deck. And now we call it the Smith Waite tarot deck because so many of her
00:08:45.600images or all of her images, at least which were, you know, certainly based on earlier tarot, but
00:08:51.760which she really made her own. And, you know, these are the images that have become truly iconic.
00:08:58.600And then Zora Neale Hurston, Doreen Valiente, who's one of my favorite witches, who's really, I suppose we could call her like the godmother of Wicca if Gerald Gardner was the godfather.
00:09:32.400So we've talked about Z on this podcast before and about how she is a very controversial figure in the witchcraft community and in the world overall.
00:09:46.580I should also say that, Amy, you taught me how to correctly pronounce her full name.
00:09:51.220I've been calling her Zuzanna this whole time, and you taught me that it's Zuzanna Budapest.
00:11:36.640So the research started like it does with any of our witches. We start with Google. We read as many articles as we can. And then once we've really shortlisted, then we start buying books. I was into her books, like the Holy Book of Women's Mysteries. And sure, it uses gendered language, but a lot of feminist work does use gendered language because it's reactionary to patriarchy.
00:12:01.560So I get that, and that's fine. But I happened to be on Twitter one day. And I'm not on Twitter that often, but someone had said, you know, Z, TERF, this, that. And I was like, oh, is this the case? I didn't know this. You know, I just started my research on her. And so then, of course, I Googled those terms together.0.89
00:12:24.440Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Turf is just like you said. And so I called Risa and I said, okay, you know, there's a hiccup. Because most of our episodes, Risa will agree, are love letters. We make no secret of our editorializing of stories and their love letters to the witches that we're featuring.1.00
00:12:42.040but this had to be a little bit different because it started as a love letter but then it was kind
00:12:46.900of like but and we we said you know we can either toss this or we can talk about it and Risa and I
00:12:52.700are always on the on team talk about it I think I love that and I thought we were going to get
00:12:58.700some backlash like strictly just for featuring her regardless of how we did it but we really
00:13:03.480didn't it was all quite positive and I think that's because again Risa and I have this sort of
00:13:09.240mandate of compassion, you know, which has been demonized so much. So we want to really take a
00:13:14.760gentle hand as often as we can and talk about why they're amazing. But sometimes, you know,
00:13:19.800we have to seek the rot in the ancestors' bones and dig it up and air it out, you know?
00:13:26.140Yeah. And it's a really tough one because in the writing of my book, which we'll get to in a little
00:13:32.520bit, but of course, I had to mention her and talk about her because she is the founder of
00:13:38.560dianic wicca or you know very feminist feminine focused goddess focused wicca which is so
00:13:48.000influential to contemporary witchcraft and to intersectional feminist witchcraft but then you're0.97
00:13:54.780like ah fuck when you start you know hearing some of the statements that she continues to make to0.98
00:14:02.480this day about she believes only cisgendered women are witches, or they're the only people1.00
00:14:11.140that she wants included in her different circles and groves and all of this absolute crap,1.00
00:14:18.260honestly. I mean, that's awful. And there's no excusing it. But she also, you know, you actually0.99
00:14:25.880opened my ears up to the fact that she was involved in a lawsuit that the results of
00:14:33.840which maybe you can actually walk us through that a little bit, both of you.
00:14:37.880I just wanted to jump in a little bit before that to say, I think what was important to
00:14:42.880us in telling that story or in deciding to tell that story was there is so much fear
00:14:49.600and pain often around being a woman and being a witch but even more so around being a trans person
00:14:57.760and a queer person so to make a space to say like no we've declared this space a safe space
00:15:03.740for women and for our magic like that's holy and that's huge and that's important deserves to be
00:15:09.280cherished but we then feel and sort of beautifully expressed in that episode I think that then it's
00:15:16.140on us to like make an even bigger space and to make circles of protection for people who experience
00:15:21.260more violence than we do you know so anyway that's my tangent but I thought that was the
00:15:26.120most important thing in that episode and I understand if women who have been advocating
00:15:31.160for safe spaces for women for generations for decades don't see that right up front in front
00:15:36.880of them but I think if you spend two seconds in a trans community where they're fighting for their
00:15:41.780lives in a more profound way you can see that we have more of a responsibility there and there's
00:15:45.980some really deep magic there if we can hold and cherish those people. Absolutely. I couldn't agree
00:15:51.100more. And it's honestly that attitude and that approach that makes me love the both of you and
00:15:56.840love the podcast so much. I know we're focusing on this one particular episode, but that really
00:16:03.000comes through in terms of the way that you curate the podcast. I mean, you have people from so many
00:16:09.220different backgrounds and it's a real widening of the circle, inclusionary stance. And I'm just
00:16:15.660so grateful for it yeah intersectionality was definitely like our first guiding principle i
00:16:21.780think even before compassion absolutely so if we could just finish up the z budapest story oh right
00:16:29.200okay so she had a little witch store and she was doing a tarot reading and the police came in and
00:16:35.400arrested her for doing witchcraft and she took this battle it took her a decade i think eight
00:16:43.020years maybe 10 years she took the battle to the state supreme court and basically was eventually
00:16:49.160finally acquitted and changed the law in california so if there are any california
00:16:53.940witches out there who make a little cash from your craft then you know maybe see budapest isn't
00:17:00.360all bad question mark again that that was the thrust of the episode was like no one is all good0.63
00:17:06.300or all bad but we have to be thinking about our legacy and what message we're leaving behind
00:17:10.040when we're not there to qualify our statements anymore absolutely now you're both skyping in
00:17:16.740from canada you're both north of montreal is that right yeah and we should say that amy
00:17:24.820is skyping in from her home and risa is like crouched in the woods somewhere
00:17:30.260which is all too appropriate so thank you both but i wanted to ask what is the canadian
00:17:38.840witchcraft scene like these days? Because certainly down here in the States, it's exploding,
00:17:45.160especially in urban centers, but really all over the place. And in terms of even my own listener
00:17:50.620base and readers, it's people from all over and it seems to be growing and growing. Are you finding
00:17:55.880that's the case up north as well? Yeah, it's a funny question. I would say like, yes,
00:18:01.720unqualified yes it's exploding we see people reaching out to us from across canada and it
00:18:08.960really intersects with you know the environmental movement and the pressure up here to try to
00:18:16.480figure out a way to meet our climate targets and resist conservatism that we're kind of
00:18:21.840experiencing coming up from the states and the sort of backlash that's happening everywhere like
00:18:27.300witches are a force to be contended with in that fight and they're finding each other
00:18:31.020But I would also say like Amy and I are kind of in some ways the wrong people to ask that because, as you said, we live in the woods.
00:18:40.260We left Montreal behind, both of us, in the last couple of years and we both kind of live in the middle of nowhere.
00:18:48.080And that's been like incredibly sustaining and enriching and like balancing and peace finding.
00:18:54.520but it means that sometimes I think at least for myself but I feel really sometimes out of touch
00:19:00.640with trends or like which is a trend or like scenes and then we just had our first live show
00:19:07.380this weekend about dance ritual in a united church that was like kind of a really badass
00:19:13.540incredible experience but like to actually do our show in front of human people to meet people
00:19:19.780So coming out of the woodwork, who connect with this current that we are all sort of touching and raising was really rad.
00:19:34.060I am on the Missing Witches social media, I think, more than Risa.
00:19:37.400So I'm on the ground in a digital sense, you know, despite being in the woods.
00:19:42.620Obviously, it's having a very major moment, witchcraft, you know, identifying as witch, claiming the title of witch. And I think it's happening all over the world. We get emails from all over the world, but especially because it is such a vast term that it encompasses everything from like, at the risk of using labels, a black lipstick goth to a barefoot hippie to anarchist activists, you know, any kind of dissident.
00:20:12.620rebel, if you're a feminist, if you're into herbology, all of these things sort of can come
00:20:18.360under that heading of witch. And as our society grows increasingly more slash less feminist,
00:20:26.460you know, it's a very weird time to be alive, let me just say. Because, you know, in the bubble
00:20:32.260that I live in, that Risa lives in, that presumably you kind of live in yourself, it's like
00:20:36.480we surround ourselves with self-expression and love and intersectionality. But then you
00:20:42.600go even even online like i say and you see that that's not how everybody is talking and how
00:20:48.360everybody is feeling oh my goodness yeah and if i could just uh interject and say i don't know how1.00
00:20:53.860much you guys are following the news down here but bodily autonomy for women is like fucking0.94
00:21:00.280being re-litigated all over again and all of these states are banning abortion left and right it's0.87
00:21:06.980really really horrifying and you to sort of get back to your question you had asked a bit like
00:21:12.540networks of witches and I saw something come up and I immediately wrote to the person who
00:21:16.640had posted it. It was basically, and I'll say this to your listeners too,
00:21:20.720we're your Canadian auntie now. If you need to go
00:21:24.660on a quote-unquote vacation for a couple weeks, we'll help you make
00:21:28.600your reservations, quote-unquote. We'll take selfies with you.
00:21:32.480So yeah, to your listeners, hit us up at Missing Witches if you need a quote-unquote
00:21:36.400Canadian aunt to go and visit for a couple weeks if things really get too harsh.
00:21:40.560But yeah, the internet has really helped the witches come out of the broom closet to a massive degree because we can still be networking, but we can be doing it in secret.
00:21:51.000And the thrust of what we do is, Reese's tagline that she came up with was, we go looking for the witches we've been missing.
00:21:58.640And so I think when you go looking for witches, you find them literally everywhere.
00:22:03.240You know, some of them are a little more out in summer.
00:22:06.400but when you start talking to people about it yeah it's quite amazing I feel really strongly
00:22:12.840although sometimes I question our decision to include women who don't self-identify as witches
00:22:19.140but I do feel like telling like a history of female shamans in the Philippines and how they
00:22:27.060were colonized and burned and called witch during the same period as the witch hunts
00:22:31.340in Western Europe or telling a story of Maria Sabina like a healer in the mountains in Oaxaca
00:22:38.220that to reach out and tell those stories and suggest that those women are part of the same
00:22:45.260process and have been victimized and violated in like very unique and specific ways to them
00:22:51.740but also in ways that are communal I feel like telling those stories together and claiming the
00:22:56.880which kind of gives us some power and I do love that in your book Pam I think we're like close
00:23:02.660to turning the tables and I want to get there because I love that stance that you take in your
00:23:09.600book that like the teen mall witch has as much value and as much power and as much strength in
00:23:17.300her little heart as you know the most sacred dianic 50 year old queen I don't know. Teresa
00:23:23.400it's funny that you and I are collaborators because I've made like very similar notes here
00:23:27.780um your fan your use of the the term permission slip like we've had people saying like you know
00:23:36.720I don't necessarily feel like I'm ready or or deserving or worthy of claiming that term which
00:23:42.860and obviously our answer is always it's already yours yeah and so you use the term permission slip
00:23:48.460And I'm lifting and keeping that term forever.
00:30:00.920I mean, I would just say to allow your child to unfold and whatever they're naturally interested in to, you know, really encourage that sense of wonder.
00:30:14.360And I imagine Risa is going to be pretty awesome at that anyway.
00:35:57.700But I really appreciate, you know, the fact that you represent all these different witches in your podcast.
00:36:04.680And that's what I was trying to do with my book, too, where, you know, there are historical figures in there and there's, you know, real history of feminism and people fighting against the Vietnam War and people fighting against, you know, the Nazis and World War II and who were identifying as witches.
00:36:22.960That's all in there, but then there's also fictional figures like Hermione and Sabrina.
00:36:30.160I wanted to show the fact and the fiction of the witch and how they feed each other,
00:36:35.780how they inform each other and change each other, and how all of it has helped me shape
00:37:46.580I really came into witchcraft in terms of casting intentional spells when I was a teenager.
00:37:55.640I know that's not true for everybody, but a lot of people have that experience.
00:37:59.280And for me, and I write about this in the book, some of it is just, I think, for especially cisgendered teen girls, it's such a time of your life when you start to feel like you're coming into this power and you also are learning how to control it.
00:38:16.580And also all these outside forces are trying to control you and it's intense, right? Like you have sexual power and it's kind of dangerous and risky. And also you can use that power for better or for worse.
00:38:33.040Your body's changing. At the same time, you're getting all these influences from friends and society and teachers, and you feel really judged and kind of out of control of your circumstances in a lot of ways, too.
00:38:48.640So I think, you know, a lot of teen, especially young women, gravitate towards witchcraft to, you know, have some sense of control or agency over their lives.
00:38:58.760So I think that's a big part of it. But I also think, you know, for me, I had other hard shit0.98
00:39:07.120going on. You know, and I write about this a little bit in the book, you know, my older sister,0.96
00:39:11.520who's a wonderful person, and she's thriving now, she was really suffering from mental illness in
00:39:18.580very intense, scary ways. And so she was also this volatile figure in my house. And I think when
00:39:25.400you're a teenager, you start to wake up to, you know, certain trauma or certain, I guess I would
00:39:32.120say more adult problems, you start to realize, oh, maybe something in my house isn't okay. Or maybe
00:39:38.840this experience I'm having with someone I have a crush on is unhealthy, or I guess it's a loss
00:39:47.940of innocence is what I'm trying to say in a very roundabout way. And so magic is both, I think,
00:39:56.020a metaphor for the transformation and the shape-shifting that is happening to teenagers
00:40:05.100psychologically and physically, but it is also a literal thing that you can do to try to help
00:40:11.340yourself feel like you have a little bit more autonomy. Yeah. I just wanted to go back here
00:40:16.300talking about teenage girls and their power. I recently read that the most effective person
00:40:22.740at changing a conservative adult's mind about the reality of climate change is like a 12 to 14 year
00:40:30.000old girl. Oh my goodness. What's the name of that young woman? Oh, her name just slipped out of my
00:40:35.220head, but there's this like Greta Thunberg. Yes. Incredible. She's incredible. And talk about also0.55
00:40:44.060someone who's using her reality as someone who's like neuroatypical to like reach a vast community
00:40:52.500like there's 89 climate strikes planned across Canada for the global day of climate action coming
00:41:00.200up in September and that's like her movement we've had strikes every Friday going on weeks now
00:41:06.660led by like students you have 10 year olds writing to their mayors and their ministers to declare
00:41:12.040climate crisis, like those are kids and I have so much faith in their power. And, and I think
00:41:17.820you're so right. And it's such a meaningful message to give to young people. If you have
00:41:23.280them in your life that like your power is in part your sexuality and is in part your loss of
00:41:29.340innocence and is in part your innocence and your like your asexuality and just your, your knowledge
00:41:35.300and your energy and your like pure raw emotion and connection to the world. Absolutely. We're
00:41:40.440seeing that here in the states too with like um the parkland kids so yeah you know all of these
00:41:46.260kids who are trying to fight for gun reform which is an issue you guys do not really have
00:41:52.840but it's a crazy one down here and a really crucial one as you know so you're right and
00:41:59.400it's a teen girl who's been leading that charge as well so you're absolutely right thank you both
00:42:05.460again for being on the show. I have to say it's pretty wild to have people interviewing me and
00:42:12.600it is also kind of a fantasy come true. So thank you again. Thank you so much for reaching out to
00:42:19.400us and for sharing your book. We feel really lucky to get to get our hands on it early. And
00:42:24.440you know, the world can be dark these days. I hate to keep going back to it, except I don't
00:42:28.760because it's all that matters. But in Canada, like you've mentioned before, we have abortion rights
00:42:34.280and we have gun control and we are holding on to those things by the skin of our teeth like those
00:42:38.920are not battles that are done and i think that like connecting with other witches however you
00:42:46.220identify that around the world to give each other strength whether in private or in public
00:42:50.220is kind of one of the most important things we can do right now to fight patriarchy and greed and0.98
00:42:55.340the shit that wants to eat us absolutely absolutely part of the thing about being a witch0.97
00:43:01.180that Risa and I talk about it a lot is sort of embracing the light and embracing the darkness.0.99
00:43:06.840I hesitate to make a pro and con list because it's sort of, you know, I don't want to put them
00:43:12.960in those binary terms. So in terms of the writing of your book, what were some of the highlights and
00:43:19.920some of the challenges? Not pros and cons, but like highlights and some of the major challenges
00:43:25.440that you came up against? Yeah, I would say the highlight for me of the book is obviously getting
00:43:34.220to write about something that I love so much and have studied for most of my life in all these
00:43:40.040different ways. One section of the book in particular was pure joy to write. A lot of it
00:43:47.000was really, really hard. But there's a chapter about art witches, and in particular, five
00:43:54.800artists that I identify as witches, Leonora Carrington and Remedios Varro, Pamela Coleman
00:44:01.380Smith, Hilma Off-Klint, and Georgina Houghton. And it was so exciting to me to finally be able to
00:44:10.740frame these female artists as types of witches and to talk about creativity and magic and female
00:44:21.220autonomy and female authorship or visual authorship as all kind of being part of the same
00:44:30.380thing or you know two sides or maybe that's three sides of the same coin that to me is what gives me
00:44:39.700I mean, the whole book was difficult, but also it gives me a lot of joy. But that notion in
00:44:46.640particular, I find to be a really liberating one. The fact that our creative work is our magic when
00:44:53.500we do it with intention. And, you know, if you're not compelled to cast a spell and light candles
00:44:59.060and all of that, that's fine. If you're writing a poem or you're being an activist or you're
00:45:05.040starting a small business, whatever it is, that can be a magical offering too. So that was
00:45:10.780definitely a highlight talking about art and magic for sure. Oh, yes. Any kind of form of
00:45:16.000creation is definitely magic making. Yeah. The most challenging thing about writing this book,
00:45:21.860and I imagine listeners are getting this from hearing me talk about it, is the book is a lot
00:45:29.540of things. It is a lot of history. It is a lot of pop culture analysis and why are we
00:45:37.860now celebrating witches so much and why are they popular and what do they mean? You know,
00:45:44.140that kind of introspection and more broad analysis of this moment in time. It is also a little bit
00:45:52.700of memoir. And so trying to braid together these three different types of writing was such a
00:46:01.160challenge, trying to get those levers and levels adjusted well in such a way that hopefully the
00:46:07.360book is still readable and that they're all flowing into each other instead of being jarring.
00:46:13.860That was definitely the hardest part. This is like the best alchemy is, you know, when we take
00:46:19.780things and put them together to make a greater thing also magic right it's part memoir it's
00:46:26.120part essay it's part research it's part and that and it's it's very readable I think Risa and I
00:46:31.520you you gave us an advanced copy not that long ago and I think both of us were like yeah yeah
00:46:36.040you know we'll take a look we'll skim it and both of us ended up just sitting down and reading the
00:46:39.720entire yeah oh thank you so much that really means a lot it's like it's so readable and so
00:46:46.660delightful and so exciting and you know just from our own interest in real history and research
00:46:53.040there's so much good juicy real research that it's not like a slaky story or you know it's not
00:47:02.000just sort of fairies god bless them they're surrounding me now by this creek but so much
00:47:07.180good history i'm like i can't wait to go back and dig more into those women's lives in particular0.99
00:47:12.580that you shared with us like you will be quoted on multiple future episodes of missing witches
00:47:17.540risa i was thinking the same thing i was like mentally highlighting it like oh we'll read this
00:47:22.600we'll wait till it comes out though we don't want to give any spoilers
00:47:26.180yeah by reading entire chapters well by the time this episode airs it will be out hooray
00:47:34.280but i do want to just thank you from the bottom of my heart for saying all of that because i
00:47:40.000respect the both of you so much. And to know that you guys think that it's working, that the weird
00:47:48.240combination of genre is working, is very affirming for me. Because I have to say, from a practical
00:47:54.440marketing perspective, my publisher, who has been wonderful, but they've kind of grappled with
00:48:01.860how to categorize this and how to pitch it, how to market it, really. So I'm really delighted
00:48:09.580that you think it makes sense thank you oh it makes perfect sense it does and your audience
00:48:15.720will eat it up oh i hope so you hear that audience get the horse and knives ready
00:48:21.240yes i know what my sister's getting for christmas this year
00:48:25.540but i have a very brief yes or no question for you if you don't mind oh please have you seen
00:48:35.140Jinx Monsoon live yet? I am going in just a few weeks. I'm so excited. I'm losing my mind with
00:48:43.280joy and anticipation. Yeah, it's everything you want it to be and more. Yeah. Have you seen Jinx
00:48:50.000Monsoon? Oh, yes. I've seen Miss Jinx Monsoon many several times and I've never, never once been
00:48:56.640anything less than blown away, thrilled, satisfied, wouldn't cover it, but you're going to have an
00:49:01.980amazing time and that was one of my favorite episodes i was like in case you guys missed it
00:49:06.920go check out the episode with jinx monster yes drag is magic everybody i think folks are so sick
00:49:14.300of hearing me talk about rupaul by now so but it's with good reason you know the the act of
00:49:20.880building one's identity and playing with one's identity you know which drag highlights so much
00:49:27.760I think is such an important part of the archetype of the witch. And that's why, you know, getting
00:49:33.560back to an earlier point we've all been making, people can call themselves a witch or think of
00:49:40.240themselves as a witch for many different reasons. And that can change over the course of your life.
00:49:46.260And maybe now you're really into crystals or tarot, you know, maybe you'll never consider
00:49:53.480yourself pagan or Wiccan, that's fine. Maybe you're not into any of that woo-woo shit,0.99
00:49:59.860but you are a badass feminist and you think that the witch is a wonderful symbol for you as a rebel1.00
00:50:08.400and as a feminine force that refuses to bow down to patriarchal forces herself. That's all1.00
00:50:17.420important and I think it's all really meaningful and worthwhile.0.98
00:50:20.260The witch is the ultimate symbol of intersectional feminism. All cultures have witches, and they all represent this iconoclast, strong, independent person. And that's why I think so many of us strong, independent people tend to gravitate to that.
00:50:37.900absolutely i highlighted this part from your book and i'm gonna print it up and put it on my wall
00:50:44.060because it speaks to me so much where you say that virgins whores daughters mothers wives each
00:50:50.240of these is defined by whom she's sleeping with or not the care that she's giving or that is given1.00
00:50:54.780to her some sort of symbiotic debt the witch owes nothing and that's what makes her dangerous
00:50:59.720i love that and then you say that they commune with the spiritual realm freely and free of any
00:51:05.200mediator. And I think that is so key to why they've been the target of so much oppression
00:51:09.940and why there's so much power there. You don't need a mediator to have access to your own power.
00:51:16.580It's such a kick-ass part of your book. I really, really appreciate you sharing it.
00:51:21.240Oh, thank you so much. And I think that comes through with all the witches that you
00:51:25.660highlight on your podcast, whether living or in the, in the next realm, you know, these are people
00:51:33.260who have engaged in risky behavior and most of all the risk is just being themselves right it's
00:51:42.800trying to live a life of full purpose and intention and often going against the grain
00:51:50.840because still so many of our religious structures our government structures our business structures0.98
00:51:57.640our social structures are head up and controlled by cis, straight, white, I will add often Christian0.91
00:52:08.920men. And there's nothing wrong with individuals who might fit that profile. But when that is the
00:52:17.580only perspective that you have been fed for most of your life, for all of your life, for generations,
00:52:24.920I believe that it's incredibly destructive and incredibly toxic.0.68
00:52:53.300Well, speaking of taking up space, I don't want to take up any more of yours.
00:53:00.000I'm so grateful to you both for making time to interview me, first of all, but also for the love and craft that you put into the Missing Witches podcast.