00:00:33.200For Samhain this year, this halfway point between autumn equinox and winter solstice,
00:00:38.820we've invited a witch who needs no introduction, but I'm going to give her one anyway.
00:00:45.060Pam Grossman is a writer, a curator, a teacher, and of course, a witch.
00:00:50.280You may know her as the host of the Witchwave podcast or as the author of Waking the Witch, Reflections on Women, Magic, and Power, a book that has become a touchstone for our coven and for contemporary witches everywhere.
00:01:04.600pam's new book is called magic maker the enchanted path to creativity and i have honestly
00:01:15.140been waiting for a book about the intersection of witchcraft and creativity so thank you pam
00:01:22.260and welcome pam grossman yay hi yay hello i am so thrilled to be here thank you so much for having
00:01:33.300me. It's so great to see you both. We are always thrilled to hang out with you whenever we get a
00:01:38.520chance. So again, thanks for sitting down with us and being in circle with us and celebrating this
00:01:44.480dark time that is creeping, creeping, creeping, creeping. I'm sure most of our listeners are
00:01:53.340familiar with you and your work. So what is something we don't know about you or something
00:02:00.120that you want our coven to know about you before we roll into the whole interview deal?
00:02:06.280Goodness. Um, what's coming to mind is that, you know, I'm like a real comedy nerd when I'm not
00:02:17.140making my podcast. There's only a select few witchy podcasts I listened to. Yours is one of
00:02:26.000them. But usually I'm listening to comedy podcasts. I'm a diehard SNL fan. I literally
00:02:33.520haven't missed an episode probably since I was 11 years old. And I follow like the comings and
00:02:39.080goings of the SNL cast, the way some people follow football. Like I'm really deeply into it.
00:02:46.200And yeah, I have no desire to be a standup comic or anything like that. Maybe I have a little
00:02:52.880desire to do like sketch comedy still from you know held over from when I was a kid but it's
00:02:58.700just something that gives me deep pleasure so getting to write about comedy and playfulness
00:03:03.800a little bit in this book was really really fun two follow-ups number one how are you ever home
00:03:10.840on a Saturday night I don't believe it do you like record it with your ddr it's usually a Sunday
00:03:17.660morning viewing over like coffee or well in my case tea um and so yeah it's just like a ritual
00:03:25.920that I have and and it just gives me so much pleasure I feel like I don't know especially
00:03:31.620as a New Yorker as well there's this feeling of family almost to whomever the cast is and so I
00:03:40.140just I just love it I was so happy that um you brought this up because reading book I was like
00:03:45.880oh, there's comedians, there's musicians, there's writers. You really cover this whole
00:03:51.620gamut of what creativity means. And it's so exciting. I would love for you to open with
00:03:59.220a reading. The section is called, listeners, Magic Made.
00:04:07.980Okay. Here we go. Thanks for asking. I don't think I've actually read out loud from the books.
00:04:15.880since I did the audio book. So I appreciate getting to do this with you.
00:04:21.480Magic made. It's my belief that everyone is born with innate creative gifts and that sharing those
00:04:29.840gifts with the world is our magical mission. Honing the skills we've been granted takes no
00:04:36.480small amount of labor and cur... Let's try that again. Audio book edit. Exactly.
00:04:45.880Um, honing the skills we've been granted takes no small amount of labor and courage,
00:04:53.800but luckily we have help on our side. Spirit wants us to make use of these gifts and it will
00:05:01.900do everything in its power to assist us in the process. Our job as magic makers is to meet
00:05:10.060spirit halfway. We can do this by consciously inviting it to work with us and setting up the
00:05:17.720best possible circumstances that allow its presence to come through with clarity and ease.
00:05:25.160This means making it feel welcome and wanted and opening oneself up to being a gracious receiver
00:05:33.000of its messages. It means fully committing to the craft of shaping the inspired information
00:05:40.520that spirit sends us into a suitable, useful, even beautiful form. And it means staying with
00:05:50.080the magic, no matter what distractions, doubts, and other demons arrive to try to undermine the
00:05:57.880process. We begin by readying ourselves to co-create something with spirit that wasn't there
00:06:05.320before. We make believe, we make way, we make fun. We make fools of ourselves. We make magicians of
00:06:16.680ourselves. We show up and stand tall, trusting that whatever we make will be of use because in
00:06:25.140the making of it, we keep creative force flowering and flowing. We enter the magic chamber with one
00:06:34.740arm skyward and one arm earthward, poised to pull ragged lightning and raw sparks down from the
00:06:44.520heavens and form them into fire we begin and so we begin there are so many i mean this is like a
00:06:56.020page and a half but there are so many takeaways here like the idea that spirit wants us to create
00:07:02.840is so powerful i mean there i read once that public speaking is the number one phobia in north
00:07:11.300america and you know we were talking about stand-up comedy i i'm a performer i've been on
00:07:17.180stage many many many many times stand-up comedy is the most terrifying idea to me because you
00:07:23.660can't just sort of you have to have a reaction from the audience so you can't get it but
00:07:27.860we make fools of ourselves we make magicians of ourselves i think this is such an important
00:07:38.840command or idea or permission slip that if if if people's number one phobia is public speaking0.76
00:07:47.140that means that they're more afraid of making a fool of themselves than they are of like dying
00:07:52.320from a tall height or a snake bite or whatever else people are afraid of so how how do you0.98
00:08:00.240like how have you made yourself okay with being a fool having fun as a goal yeah0.93
00:08:10.320what a beautiful question when I was writing that I was certainly thinking about0.95
00:08:20.000allowing oneself to push past feelings of self-consciousness and self-criticism and
00:08:28.020and all of those other things for sure. And I was thinking about the full card of tarot
00:08:34.900because one of the guiding images of magic maker is the magician card. And in the book,
00:08:42.340I really unpack that image. And I talk a lot about the creative person or the artist being
00:08:49.180a bridge between realms and really connecting the celestial realm with the terrestrial realm,
00:08:56.640right? And you're this kind of conduit as the magician is in tarot between these different
00:09:02.860realms. And then you're manifesting force into form when you make something. But in order to do
00:09:11.200that, if you think about the major arcana, you have to begin as a fool. And the fool is, as many1.00
00:09:20.960people listening will presumably be aware. The fool isn't just like an idiot or a jester. That's1.00
00:09:27.440kind of part of the archetype, but it's also about beginner's mind. It's about having this openness
00:09:33.340and this sense of being okay with taking a leap of faith, a leap into mystery, being okay with
00:09:44.260not knowing, with not being in total control. And so when I was thinking about this book,
00:09:52.920and when I think about how I approach a lot of my creative practice, it's about knowing that
00:09:58.200there's probably going to be some discomfort involved. We don't know how it's going to turn
00:10:03.900out. We can't control everything, even the most skilled among us. And I think there's something
00:10:10.600really exciting about that. And it's certainly something that I'm not always comfortable with.
00:10:16.460I mean, I can be a real control freak. It's something I've been working on in therapy.
00:10:21.300But I have found magic has helped me let go and do a trust fall into mystery. And that has then
00:10:31.160helped me get out of my own way a little bit more and be more receptive and by extension,
00:10:38.940more productive because I'm not like hyper controlling and hyper criticizing everything
00:10:45.860I'm doing as I'm making it, or at least that is the goal. I want to know what the feedback loop
00:10:54.460was like for you in your magical practice of writing this book and looking at your practice
00:11:01.040and living your work and doing this huge curatorial work that is this book of bringing
00:11:07.220in so many creative practices, but then having to like live it alongside you tell the story of it
00:11:14.140through the book, but I wonder what it was like to feel that and how it, how it changed your,
00:11:18.280your magic. Yes. You know, in the book, I write that I have had to practice what I priestess
00:11:26.620and especially with this book, because as I was writing it, I was also using a lot of the
00:11:35.520techniques I was writing about to create this book or to co-create this book with spirit.
00:11:43.000And what was nice about that is that I was kind of my own Guinea pig in a way, you know,
00:11:50.120my own test subject. And so when the inevitable feelings of insecurity would come up or feeling
00:11:59.780daunted or feeling stuck, all those things that can happen during the creative process.
00:12:05.640I was like, Ooh, well, actually this is kind of useful because I can really look at this,
00:12:11.580study it and write about it. And there's a whole section in the book about trying to slay your
00:12:18.760creative demons. And so a lot of the demons that I write about perfectionism, the demon of suffering,
00:12:27.520the demon of scarcity all of these different demons would show up as I was writing the book
00:12:33.260and I was like all right that's okay then because this happens for most creative people and so I can
00:12:39.780study them and I can then put them into the book likewise every time and without exception and and
00:12:48.760and I don't recommend or rather I don't suggest that you have to do it this way but for me writing
00:12:55.640this book. Every single time I sat down to write, I called magic circle. I lit up my altar to
00:13:04.700mercury because mercury is one of the guiding deities of this book. And I, you know, really
00:13:12.180went into this devotional space of making sure that spirit knew that whatever came through
00:13:21.520that day, I knew it was divine and I knew that I in turn was being tasked with making it an
00:13:32.540offering to the world. And then to close the feedback loop, that is then an offering back
00:13:38.680up to spirit, right? And so it was really helpful for me, honestly, to have to use a lot of the
00:13:49.820techniques in order to write this book to then kind of reprove to myself that they in fact
00:13:56.600are effective. And I've used many of these techniques before, but I was very, very diligent
00:14:02.800about it. And so it was very useful in this case. And look, and I know this is way too long of an
00:14:12.620answer. So I'll just quickly end by saying in general, using magical techniques I have found
00:14:20.420has helped bring more ease to my creative work. It's helped quiet my anxiety and it's helped me
00:14:29.420let go of those perfectionist tendencies because I'm like, well, this isn't just about me. Like
00:14:35.900this, something else is in partnership with me. I'm not a passive vessel. You know, this book is
00:14:42.420not just free associated words that came through. There is the human part of shaping and molding
00:14:49.560and adding intention and all of that craft and labor. But I was able to really trust that this
00:14:58.200book was becoming what it needed to be. And even now that the book is out and of course there are
00:15:05.700things, and this happens with anybody, I think once they write a book, it's like, ah, I wish I
00:15:10.220added this, or I wish I could change that, or you find typos, all the things, right? But it's helped
00:15:15.820me really lean into, again, that sense of surrender, that this is what spirit wanted this
00:15:22.860book to be and how it wanted it to come through me. And it helps quell some of that anxiousness
00:15:29.740a bit for me. Not all the way, but some of the way, which I'm very grateful for.
00:15:36.460I'm completely obsessed with this section of the book.
00:15:39.360I just, listeners, if you don't have the book yet, these are the demons.
00:15:55.100So, I mean, I am quite familiar with this group of demons myself, and I imagine that all of our listeners are too.
00:16:03.800And I think there's this thing in capitalism and hegemony that wants us to be strong and powerful and nothing gets to me. And I'm sure everyone in the world looks at you as this powerful, all powerful even, witch.
00:16:21.700So can you talk a little bit about this like vulnerability as strength, like why you shepherded these demons into this space?
00:16:33.020How, why did you admit that to us?0.94
00:16:37.600Oh, first of all, I think most people in the world have no fucking idea who I am.
00:16:44.440But to your point, and I appreciate the spirit in which it was intended.0.57
00:16:48.720Um, you know, I, I always appreciate when other people are vulnerable and honest, especially
00:16:57.960when my heroes say, Oh no, no, no, no.
00:17:01.540I really struggled with this or I felt uncomfortable or, Oh my gosh, that came out totally differently
00:17:09.520And I'm not saying that I'm anyone's hero, but, but in writing this book, I just wanted
00:17:16.920to be very, very honest that these are things that I struggle with, because I think the
00:17:22.960more specific and I'm going to use the word authentic, sorry, but the more authentic we
00:17:30.520are about our insecurities and vulnerabilities, first of all, I think the less power they
00:17:37.180have over us, if we name them and we take them out into the light and look at them.
00:17:42.220But also I think it's hopefully a generous impulse because I think unless you're a total sociopath, I think everybody, most people are familiar with some, if not all of these demons in their life, throughout their life.
00:18:00.160So I just wanted to let the reader know that, of course, I battle with these demons all the time.
00:18:11.180I think a lot of people stop themselves from making what they're meant to make because they're like, oh, I feel uncomfortable or, oh, I'm scared. It's like, everybody's uncomfortable. Everyone's scared. You know, there's this quote in the book from David Bowie, and this quote has gone around Instagram, and I'm sure several people have seen it already.
00:18:33.520But it's a quote where he's like, and I'm going to mangle it and I should have had it
00:18:39.080cued up, but it's something to the effect of if you feel like your feet can't quite
00:18:46.000touch the bottom, you know, like, let's say you're like in an ocean of creativity, but
00:18:51.460you're feeling at sea, you know, and you feel that discomfort and that like, oh shit, I'm0.98
00:19:03.520he said, that's exactly how you're supposed to feel. We're supposed to get out of our comfort
00:19:09.580zone. We're dealing with mystery. We're making things that have never been made before.
00:19:14.420It's supposed to be uncomfortable and fucking weird. And so I thought if I wrote about that,0.94
00:19:21.260it would hopefully help people push through those feelings and keep going because that's what spirit
00:19:29.600wants us to do it wants us to finish it wants us to make stuff and that's our job you know the
00:19:35.840judgment and the criticism and all that shit that's not our job we're here to make things
00:19:41.340you talk kind of a lot about this notion of sacred discomfort in the book and I think0.53
00:19:48.700for people who do have fears or whatever that this is going to really be like something that's
00:19:55.060going to allow people to break through this book is going to be something that's going to allow
00:19:59.120people to break through those fears and do something, to get comfortable with the discomfort
00:20:05.020of doing something new, trying something that you've never tried before, getting up on stage
00:20:10.240and doing stand-up comedy, all of those things. So again, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you,
00:20:16.520thank you. Oh, I'm so glad that you responded to that section that way. That was certainly the
00:20:21.900intention. And, you know, I've said this before, but often I write the books that I need, you know,
00:20:29.920I don't have all the answers and writing a book lets me ask the questions. And so this book is
00:20:36.880also for me, it's trying to help me feel braver. And it's trying to help me push through those
00:20:44.440demonic moments of doubt and insecurity. And it's, it's to help me keep making the things I
00:20:51.680meant to make, even though I often feel uncomfortable or feel like I don't totally
00:20:57.440know what I'm doing. So I'm so happy that that resonates with you. That makes me feel really
00:21:02.840happy. I want to talk about erasing the line between spirituality or your spiritual practice
00:21:12.600and creativity that line like lit through my body it's totally something that is core to Amy and I's
00:21:21.300like friendship and collaboration we started as we met in a green room at a show we started as
00:21:27.080creative collaborators and we feel like that allowed everything else to happen because we met
00:21:32.100in a space where we acknowledged each other as creators and so there's something there that I
00:21:38.960want to hear you talk about more that that that that our spiritual practice can be a creative
00:21:44.780practice a play practice we can get closer to spirit through creation and that we can like
00:21:50.160become creators through our spiritual play and reverence i that that value in the book is i
00:21:58.720think going to be so life-changing and i want to hear you talk more about it
00:22:01.820so for a very long time I definitely kept my my spiritual life and my creative life
00:22:13.800separate there was kind of a bifurcation between them not even consciously I was a super creative
00:22:21.260kid. I love to write poetry and music and perform and make art. And I loved to cast spells and light
00:22:33.460my candles and do my rituals. And my bedroom, it's funny because my bedroom has shown up in
00:22:42.220every book I've written. It was just such a sacred cauldron for me when I was growing up.
00:22:47.380But my bedroom really was this space where I could like get super weird and make stuff. I could make art. I could make magic. And it was this sense of like very deep play and being in flow and feeling like I was in this liminal space where I had total freedom to manifest things.
00:23:14.720But it wasn't until I got older, like was a full-ass adult, when I realized looking back, like, ah, I was doing the same shit.
00:23:26.920Like I was, you know, I was entering this magic circle and setting this, you know, sacred space to receive creative force, as I call it.0.58
00:23:42.260And I was intentionally doing these like symbolic actions to try to communicate with something capital O other and manifest some kind of transformation, whether it was like through the art I was working on or the poetry I was writing.
00:24:05.380I was doing that because I was trying to make a change in the world, right?
00:24:09.880Change my emotions, maybe change the emotions of someone who might encounter my poem, even
00:24:17.240You're trying to manifest like a shift in energy and make something new.
00:24:21.900And the same is true when I was casting spells, you know, perhaps a little bit more obviously.
00:24:27.760And then I realized so many of the artists that I was in love with from the surrealists like Remedios Varro and Leonora Carrington to musicians like Tori Amos and David Bowie and Bjork.
00:24:43.600The list goes on and on and on. That not only was I responding to the subject matter in their work, which is often mythological and magical, but that they were using magical techniques, even if they didn't call it that, to generate their work.
00:25:03.460Um, I know I keep writing about or bringing up David Bowie and I write about him a lot in the
00:25:08.220book. He's a real creative hero and, and sort of creative ancestor of mine, a chosen creative
00:25:15.260ancestor of mine, but he had a practice of essentially divination. He, he, he came up with
00:25:22.820this computer program called the verbisizer. He would put in random lyrics and words, and then
00:25:29.360at the touch of a button it would kind of like shuffle the cards if you will it would mix up
00:25:34.760all his lyrics and then it would spit out you know the the lyrics in a certain order
00:25:39.900that is a form of divinatory practice you're you're letting spirit sort of make the choice
00:25:48.280for you you're leaving it up to chance um and certainly he had a lot of other interests in
00:25:54.060the occult and so on throughout his career. Same with Remedios Varro and Leonora Carrington.
00:26:00.720I grew up loving their work, but it wasn't until I got older and really studied them deeply that I
00:26:06.280was like, oh, they studied Kabbalah and tarot and Gurdjieff and witchcraft. And Remedios Varro
00:26:16.780So Varro had a practice of surrounding her canvases with crystals intentionally when she painted.
00:26:27.680And that is blending magic and creativity.
00:26:30.320So one of the goals of the book is not only to share my practice, but to show that so many artists that people admire have pulled on these threads and that it's not a weird thing to do.
00:26:46.780Like, it's actually pretty normal, even if people haven't thought of it as magic or witchcraft, that this is part of the human history of making things.
00:26:58.620I have to ask about a specific spell that you did that I have been waiting months and months to have the opportunity to talk to you about.
00:27:06.920Maybe you know where I'm going with this, but you joined Jinx Monsoon, a sold out Carnegie Hall show on Valentine's Day just this year.
00:27:19.000And y'all performed a live love spell that, according to the source I looked at anyway, is believed to be the first public spell cast on the Carnegie stage.
00:27:33.440I was lucky enough that Kenny, shout out Kenny, I love you.
00:27:36.280I love you so much um sent me love you Kenny sent me the the text of the spell but I need to know
00:27:44.140how this came about how did did you and Jinx work together on the actual text of the spell
00:27:50.640how how did this come to be thank you for asking about that it's funny someone else recently asked
00:27:59.600me like is there anything I wish I could have put into this book and and there's so much I wish I
00:28:04.680could have put into this book. And one of the things is that experience, but it happened after
00:28:11.300I had pretty much been done with the book and it just would have been too much to, to add it.
00:28:17.700But I love talking about it because it really is such a great example of putting a lot of these
00:28:24.140principles into practice. So to back up a little bit I know Jinx and you both are, are, you know,
00:28:34.160fans of each other and she's been on your show she's been on my show a few times on the on the
00:28:40.360witch wave my podcast and um she and i have become friends over the years i think when she was first
00:28:49.500getting interested in witchcraft and you can hear her talk about this on my show i was also on her
00:28:55.380podcast uh which which i think isn't going on anymore because she's so busy but she's the
00:29:02.740the busiest but you can hear her years ago kind of grappling with this idea of like wait she feel
00:29:12.060she felt like she was a witch but she also like is very irreverent and she didn't want to offend
00:29:18.680anybody and she didn't know if she really could kind of claim this for herself and and she was
00:29:24.560kind of working it out and she and i had a lot of conversations about the fact that like you can be
00:29:29.600a witch any witch way you want to be there is no pope of witchcraft and and having a spirit of
00:29:36.820what i call reverent irreverence is actually like very much part of the tradition of witchcraft
00:29:43.520um gerald gardner one of the kind of fathers of wicca he has this great line in one of his books
00:29:50.760where he says witches are consummate leg pullers like witches often have a great sense of humor
00:29:57.680right and and there's a little bit of you know trickery and playfulness and fun you know baked
00:30:04.520into the archetype i think anyhow she and i became friends i saw her perform many times we hung out
00:30:13.820like we we just really developed this beautiful friendship of mutual respect and and real
00:30:21.060appreciation for each other's work she started blending witchcraft more into her drag persona
00:30:28.240if you watch season uh seven i believe it is of all stars rupaul's all stars she embodies the
00:30:39.840archetype of the witch i think at least four times during that that run that series um and
00:30:47.520spoiler alert she goes on to win all stars she becomes i think the phrase is queen of all queens
00:30:56.000is that right um and even when she wins and they crown her she has her scepter and she claims it
00:31:04.260her she claims her her win in the name of hecate goddess of witchcraft and i was just like0.98
00:31:10.480fuck yes my point is jinx like has fully integrated her witchcraft practice into her0.99
00:31:19.120drag persona and her drag persona is very expansive it's not only about being a witch0.98
00:31:24.700but but it's part part of the persona and so i i've just found it really moving to witness that
00:31:33.200And to have played any part in giving her a permission slip, which PS, she did not actually
00:31:40.700need, but, but if I played any part in helping her be more confident and coming out of the
00:31:47.400broom closet, like it is an honor of my life, you know, fast forward, she one day, um, Face0.97
00:31:57.640times me. This is in July of, of last year in 2024. And she says, Hey, I'm going to be performing
00:32:05.220at Carnegie hall. It's my debut show. It's going to be on Valentine's day. And I want you to be in
00:32:10.680the show and I want you to cast a love spell. And I was so, first of all, so overjoyed for her
00:32:18.940to be on that legendary stage, um, for people who don't follow jinx as closely as the three of us do,
00:32:25.920you know since she has won rupaul's drag race twice she's gone on to become a broadway star
00:32:33.560i mean just starring in so many shows as we record this she's just finishing up her run in
00:32:40.140oh mary but she's been you know doing all this other stuff but for her to do her carnegie hall
00:32:45.560debut with a band and the whole thing you know that's the stuff of legend so i was thrilled for
00:32:53.140her and so honored to be invited to do it. And to answer your question in terms of how we came up
00:33:01.200with the spell, first of all, let me say that the show was co-written and directed by another hero
00:33:08.040of mine, Benda LaCreme, Jinx's best friend, incredible drag queen herself, one of, I mean,
00:33:15.280another total hero of mine. And I'd met Dayla a couple times briefly, but for me to be working
00:33:22.380with her too was just like beyond and they pretty much gave me free license to write the spell I
00:33:30.240wanted to write to you know get the costume I wanted to get they were they were basically just
00:33:35.840like be fabulous they're like they're you're never gonna outshine jinx like it's just not possible
00:33:42.240so be as grand and magical and beautiful as you possibly can be in terms of your costume and so
00:33:49.740on, but they really trusted me. And so I worked with this incredible, um, costume designer that
00:33:56.280I know Sherman, uh, Normandy Sherwood, excuse me, um, and designed this incredible costume,
00:34:02.540which we don't have to get into all those details, but I wrote this spell and the love spell
00:34:08.540was really about, and Jinx did ask, it was important to her that there was some element
00:34:16.780of integrating the masculine and the feminine that was one of the things she requested um which
00:34:23.760was great by me because we're very much on the same page about that and you know but but beyond
00:34:29.820that i wrote this spell that was really about trying to amplify the spirit of love for everyone
00:34:39.640in that audience particularly because as as as you can imagine her audience is primarily queer
00:34:47.220and lots of trans folks are in her audience and this spell we didn't know this at the time we
00:34:55.560didn't know who was going to be president when she first invited me we now know who the president was
00:35:00.740is unfortunately um the the and we didn't know that in terms of divine timing that this would
00:35:08.860happened that the week of the show is when the president announced that, um, at the Kennedy
00:35:16.640center drag was going to be banned and lots of other like terrible things were happening
00:35:22.400in the news around queer and trans, um, um, issues.
00:35:27.300And so I knew that I wanted to fortify this audience and that I wanted to shift that feeling
00:35:37.340a fear that many of us are feeling into a feeling of absolute love and strength and radiance.
00:35:47.360And so that's really what the spell was about. I also knew I wanted it to not just be me performing
00:35:52.920a spell. I wanted the audience to be casting the spell with me. So there are parts of the spell
00:35:59.300that are call and response. There are parts of the spell, um, where there's like the me and the
00:36:05.560audience toning together, um, to activate it. And that was important to me too, because I wanted
00:36:13.120that I wanted for me and everyone there to also be able to say that they sang in Carnegie hall,
00:36:21.440even if it was just for one note. So anyway, it was, um, a great honor. It was such a joy to do.
00:36:29.540I was very nervous about it. I was super stressed about it, but I also knew that I was being called
00:36:38.380to do this for a reason. And that, you know, I had all these visions of like, what if I
00:36:47.440set the stage on fire? What if I trip? What if I puke all over myself? Like my, that's what my
00:36:52.620lovely brain does when it's nervous. And thank goodness I have a wonderful therapist, but I also
00:36:59.520my higher frequency self was also like, honey, you're being called by spirit to do this. And
00:37:08.200it is not about you. This is about honoring jinx. This is about helping everyone in that audience0.94
00:37:18.200feel less afraid, feel more connected to each other and to capital L love.
00:37:25.400and as soon as I shifted into that focus I was like I'm good this is this is gonna be about all
00:37:33.720of us um so anyhow that was a very long answer but it was a great great honor and um it also
00:37:42.760happened to be on my birthday I was born on Valentine's Day so the best birthday I have ever
00:37:49.260had i just want you to know that the spell worked i read a blog post at the time um by
00:37:59.240someone i didn't know someone i'd never heard of who i was at the show a fan of jinx obviously but
00:38:05.980not at all a witch and they talked about how powerful and loved and held the like how amazing
00:38:14.920the experience was even from outside of that witchcraft lens the audience felt it I just need
00:38:21.580you to know that that spell worked that gives me the chills like my body really responded um to to
00:38:31.300your words just now it felt really powerful and I knew that a lot of folks there probably had never
00:38:39.140done any witchcraft or never cast a spell before or or didn't realize they ever had because I think
00:38:44.800we all make magic even if we don't call it that um what do we think making a wish on our birthday
00:38:50.400candles is like when you toss a penny into a fountain like you're casting a little spell
00:38:55.580right but anyhow um and you know i made sure there were some lines in there that were sincere but
00:39:01.920also funny to make sure people knew like we're laughing we're having fun like we're having
00:39:07.280yeah reverent irreverence yes there is a line in there about conjuring orgasms for everybody
00:39:14.260um and that was certainly to cut some of the tension but also sincere I do want everyone0.87
00:39:20.000to have orgasms that's like a capital g good in the world right so um I'm so happy that that you
00:39:27.980read some of that feedback I've heard other folks say similar things and it makes me just so so
00:39:34.680grateful I'm so grateful I was able to do that with Jinx and I will never stop being grateful to her
00:39:41.540do you have dreams or visions of other large-scale ritual or spell work hugely this is one of my
00:39:53.680one of my biggest dreams right now yes to take that experience and figure out
00:40:04.660i was gonna say how to scale it it was already like scaled but you know to really offer
00:40:11.240I have big, big visions of offering public ritual for people that also incorporates
00:40:18.300drag and music and, you know, maybe even comedy.
00:40:23.860Like I want to do these art rituals and, and I would love to be, you know, the MC hostess
00:40:31.080of it, um, and, and offer my, my craft to it, but I also don't want it to be just about