00:08:59.980writing in a way. And so when you do automatic writing, when you're engaging in it, you're
00:09:06.140really not thinking about like, okay, is the writing I'm doing like grammatically correct
00:09:11.960and perfect? It really is just being in the flow of writing. And I think that's a beautiful healing
00:09:16.900process. And what usually comes out of it is like totally unreadable, illegible. And yet something
00:09:24.020has happened in that process, like an alchemy has taken place. And that's what I love about it.
00:09:28.580and then from that you can go back and I had my students I just taught a workshop at the Vienna
00:09:34.200Poetry School and I had my students come up with ways to perform the automatic writing that was
00:09:38.820not like some of them chose to read it like read their read their scripts that they composed like
00:09:43.900more and more also with each other so not they started kind of like channeling each other in
00:09:48.600the class as well as spirits and so we had these reams of writing at the end of the class that
00:09:54.320were like not really produced by any single person and then we just tried to find ways of like
00:09:59.480enacting that like how would we perform this like even just like picking a word to perform or you
00:10:05.680know doing a typical reading but a lot of them a lot of it actually manifested in dance which i
00:10:10.980thought was interesting it was like everybody's dancing suddenly so it's almost like automatic
00:10:15.920writing is like the dancing of writing in a way and that's what i love about it i think it helps
00:10:22.300us to heal from these really these I want to say toxic but I think that word is overused these
00:10:30.520really challenging colonial imperial bourgeois institutions of mark making people who want to
00:10:39.660say this is what the standardized mark looks like this is who a writer is this is what a writer does
00:10:45.480this is who is allowed to be a writer and who is not allowed to be a writer and it goes back also
00:10:50.520of history is people who are excluded from that as well. Like people of color, women, people who
00:10:57.000are poor and can't afford an education, people who are not allowed into institutions of education.0.98
00:11:04.920It's like these people then are excluded from that standardized idea of who is allowed to make
00:11:11.360a mark and what that mark looks like. And it also goes back, like when you start thinking about
00:11:16.060literacy and mark making in that way you also like call in for example like Harriet Powers's
00:11:23.260narrative quilts or something or you know people who were making marks not through writing but in
00:11:30.520other ways through collaging or art making you call a lot of that into the practice too. Okay so
00:11:36.940can you talk about Hilma F. Klint? Hilma oh my gosh a little bit yeah Hilma F. Klint that's a really
00:11:43.640really great person to collocate with and specifically here's what I'm when I'm so
00:11:48.920curious to hear what you think about so she starts being invited to seances and channeling
00:11:56.220from the time she's like a teenager she falls in love we think with Anna Cassell and they form the
00:12:02.960five and then that continues every week for like a decade and then there's this kind of mysterious
00:12:08.440other group of the 13 that they continue to work with and I and at the same time making art that
00:12:15.420is like nothing that the art world will accept or acknowledge they're basically inventing
00:12:21.940abstraction they're drawing on all this sort of scientific drawing and study that they've done
00:12:27.460and what I want to know what you think about is like in that room say with the five
00:12:32.600when you're engaging in a practice of channeling or their automatic drawing with the planchette
00:12:41.320describe what you think happens right they're learning from each other in a way that maybe
00:12:48.620they weren't always free to do like maybe it opens a space you've talked about channeling
00:12:53.580as this sort of feminine way of listening like allowing methods and I just want to hear you
00:12:58.800talk about it yeah first of all I love her artwork I noticed to see her exhibition at the
00:13:04.780it was the Guggenheim yeah that looks like this the temple that she wanted to create and it broke
00:13:09.460the records yes Guggenheim like it and it was amazing because it is really like the temple
00:13:15.520that she wanted to create the Guggenheim it should really only show her work and so it was so cool to
00:13:20.640see it I also saw it with a very dear friend of mine who passed away last October who was a medium
00:13:26.520and a hypnotist sorry that your friend passed but I'm glad you were there together yeah I'm glad I
00:13:33.000was there together it's the first exhibition that I went to that actually made me cry at the
00:13:37.920exhibition it was so powerful to see her work and knowing also that she painted like for the future
00:13:44.440right that she held on to this work or that was one of her caveats to her nephew that
00:13:48.960she wouldn't release this work for 20 years and so the work really feels like it's for us
00:13:54.200It really does. Whoever us is, like the person beholding her work. And it was astounding just to be, I've been around so much art in my life, and I've never been around art that felt like that. And to answer your question, what do I think is happening there? I think that's so complicated. But I think that it really speaks to very simple principles of interconnection, right?
00:14:16.620like all of us are connected not just to each other but to the objects around us the animals
00:14:23.680the plants the energies the subtle energies that we don't see the spirits we're connected to so
00:14:30.420many different layers and worlds around us and I really just think that what Hilma of Clint is
00:14:36.740doing is she's clearing time and space of its borders and perimeters and she's opening that up
00:14:44.200And I think anyone channeling is working in a different kind of conception of time and space as well. And that's really, it's as simple as that. It's really just opening up. It's almost like when the difference being, say, for example, when you think of prose and poetry, like prose is horizontal and poetry is vertical.
00:15:04.840and I think of like mediumship as vertical in time so you're dropping into time not in a linear way
00:15:11.140where you you move from left to right and again this has a lot to do with literacy you know like
00:15:16.780your eyes would move from left to right reading words on a page or you could just drop down through
00:15:21.380the center and and release that and that opens you to something different and I think channeling
00:15:27.500is a lot like dropping down through through time and space in a way like falling down into water
00:15:34.800and just opening and seeing what happens there.
00:15:38.240And I think it's something that anyone can do.
00:16:03.880And if you think about like, even, you know, technology, and the way that we're in constant collaboration with technology these days, like autofill and our text messages, we're always automatically writing. We're always in a way channeling and being channeled. We're being predicted, and we're predicting. We're working with predictive technologies, and we're predictive ourselves.
00:16:29.880And I really think it's really as simple as opening into that.
00:16:33.140And it can be done through exercises, through meditations, through inductions.
00:16:38.180And I think the beautiful thing that Hilma F. Klint seemed to have was this community
00:16:46.700And so I think also the authorship of her work should be questioned too.
00:16:51.180Should we really be ascribing this work just to Hilma F. Klint?
00:16:54.180Like, should we not be taking into account the other people that were undoubtedly there as well as the spirits, right? This is like multiply authored work. I don't think it belongs to her. And I wonder how she would have felt about that because it's her and it's not her at the same time.
00:17:13.020And I think, like, we don't have the minds to grasp that and say, like, art history classes or something, right?
00:17:20.980Like, we always need an author or an artist.
00:17:26.580And that's what I love about her work.
00:17:28.860And when you're looking at her work, I'm like, it's massive, some of the work that she did from that particular series that was her first series.
00:17:38.440I forgot what it's called, but these massive, like, tapestry, like, paintings.
00:17:42.200i think she calls them like the big ones a lot so the big ones they're really big they're really
00:17:49.200big and a lot of them are unsigned right she was very deliberate like these ones were created in
00:17:54.620collaboration and oh yeah that's beautiful yeah so then you think that she herself was interested
00:18:02.380in that unsigned voice i do yeah like one thing i find i'm finding interesting now is realizing like
00:18:10.320so at the end in her in her 70s when she had tried many times to exhibit and had just been0.87
00:18:18.960met with mockery like women in the arts was really so new and was met with very explicit like women
00:18:26.800can't do heavy things can't have big ideas this is a joke get them out of the academy get them
00:18:35.260out of the royal swedish academy where they were paying more to be there than the men and they
00:18:38.720weren't allowed to do half the thing anyway um so she tried to exhibit many times she was not
00:18:45.080keeping the paintings a secret that is like a misconstruction from early writing about her but
00:18:51.420she tried and she was made fun of and so in the 70s in her 70s she's with both Anna who she had
00:18:59.940spent so much of her life living with and traveling with and I think her name is Thomasina who was her
00:19:05.860mother's nurse who's her partner in the latter years of her life and the three of them are
00:19:10.660together and the three of them execute her archival vision together so they're following
00:19:16.920Anna's notes putting marks on which notebooks shouldn't be open for 20 years which boxes of
00:19:22.120paintings should be put away the three of them work together they burn journals together you know
00:19:27.040like they under her direction they make this archive for the future but just recently they
00:19:32.460found and translated Anna's notebooks, Anna's diaries, and those didn't undergo the same process
00:19:39.760because it was Anna's story to tell, you know. And so then we start to see more of this idea
00:19:47.120of collaboration. And I have a book of Anna's paintings and you would be, I was floored. Like
00:19:53.500they are so obviously sort of palimpsest collaborations with, you look at the paintings
00:19:59.720of Hilma of Clinton you're like oh this part is Anna like it's really amazing yeah it's so
00:20:05.160beautiful it makes me also think that like Hilma is like the tip of the iceberg on maybe something
00:20:09.460that's going to unravel as we learn more about these women and what they were doing together
00:20:14.300and what their art was and their own writing it's just so beautiful and it also makes me think like
00:20:20.480for anyone out there you know creating art and not finding their audience or being turned away
00:20:26.540maybe you're writing maybe you're creating for the future and that's beautiful like that's so
00:20:32.960meaningful because just because you might not find your contemporaries now doesn't mean
00:20:39.000the audience doesn't exist and like with Hilma like thank god that work wasn't destroyed thank
00:20:46.400god that was kept thank god she didn't give up on herself or maybe she did multiple times but
00:20:52.380thank god she didn't ultimately do that yeah but it's like these notions of failure i think are so
00:20:58.660salient and like what that means and what it means to to have your work speak for you and when it
00:21:07.180speaks for you and how you let it do that i think all these questions are so important we live in
00:21:12.740such a culture that demands like instant feedback you know like likes on our posts or instant success
00:21:19.320And we're usually hustling. We usually we have to fight to survive. Most of us, we're usually doing multiple things. We don't really have the time and space to create like we might really need to have. And that's that's a privilege, too. And that's something to carve out, too. That's really difficult. But also like the difficulty of the now, like the capital and now that we live in that is not capacious, but really restrictive sometimes.
00:21:45.200And I see that also with my students who are young artists, you know, overworked in the institutional system with these massive course loads. It was like, why not just give them space to create and have them come to class if and when they want to do that, have them work on a pass-fail basis and just give them that container to create.
00:22:07.060um and anyone who works at my university listening to this i'll probably be fired
00:22:12.580but really i think that's what we need and we also need like better maybe better is the wrong
00:22:20.860word but we need um to revise what we think failure and success is and what audience and
00:22:28.520community means as well for our work because i think there's so many people who might give up
00:22:33.460on themselves or who might you know really like internalize any negative feedback or critique and
00:22:44.900really just kind of shut down their creativity and I think that's such a shame when I think that
00:22:49.420creative acts such as channeling such as automatic writing can open those spaces back up so that
00:22:55.380you're not you're not thinking within the perimeters of what people think you should and
00:22:59.200should not do what you can and cannot do but you're simply just opening up to a creative force
00:23:04.340and that itself will find its channels that will find its rivers and streams that will find its
00:23:11.160people because that force is bigger than any one person just like helma's paintings literally
00:23:18.520bigger than than her than like her group like looking at these paintings it's like
00:23:25.220yeah there's abstraction there's like you know kandinsky and malevich and what they were doing
00:23:32.680was interesting and spiritual too in its own right but what she's doing completely surpasses
00:23:37.640in my opinion just like the the one-on-one experience with her work completely surpasses
00:23:43.580the affect of any abstraction i've seen so i wonder if abstraction is even the right word i
00:23:49.340wonder if that will even go forward or if like canon like well more and more of this art becomes
00:23:55.140discovered i wonder if language will be revised and i wonder if she herself considered that
00:24:00.240abstract work right yeah she's certainly interested in a process of abstraction you
00:24:09.200know she's from a family of like oceanic cartographers like they mapped the ocean floor
00:24:16.640you know they're like her grandfather was the first person to map like the coastline of sweden
00:24:22.740along the north so so she's thinking about and like she's studying anatomical drawing and you
00:24:29.200know doing she has these beautiful drawings of plants and stuff so she's thinking about like
00:24:34.060what's underneath a lot i wanted to ask you
00:24:40.040what are what are the practices that have worked for you in this kind of context automatic writing
00:24:51.460and channeling i mean for him she built up books of symbolic reference it took her a really long
00:24:57.640time what are some of the what's the homework what are some of the practices well actually i
00:25:03.460just uploaded to um my website and i'll give you the link and induction into automatic writing so
00:25:08.300anyone listening to this can try it and um there's a beautiful musical track in it by stefana
00:25:14.660fratilla that allows you it just gives you the space and container to do automatic writing for
00:25:19.320eight minutes there's an induction and then I bring you out of it as well you can go into the
00:25:24.620rest of your day the whole thing is about 16 minutes so I do really recommend like listening
00:25:29.980to inductions practicing I think also just having like little daily rituals of opening such as
00:25:38.300keeping a journal to write about your dreams in the morning I think that's important I think in
00:25:43.060order to start connecting with these worlds we want to start seeing reality more like a dream
00:25:47.780and dreams more like reality. So if you can try to blend those spheres, if you can even just write
00:25:54.880down a few words to your dreams in the morning, I know it's so hard to write down dreams in the
00:25:58.400morning, but even just a few words that will automatically blend into your day and I think
00:26:03.400start opening things. But in terms of automatic writing, I think you really do need someone to
00:26:09.640sit down with you or a recording to induce you into it and then to play with it and just to do
00:26:15.120that as a habit. The more I get into it, the more I can just like set a timer for myself for say
00:26:20.580seven minutes and clear my mind and then just, you know, make some marks on a page until the
00:26:26.360timer goes off and then just put that aside and do anything else. So I really just think practicing.
00:26:33.520I also think that diligence that Hilma Eklund had of making her own symbols is a really beautiful
00:26:39.440act so if you have a journal and you have like symbols that you keep using or keep dreaming of
00:26:45.620for example I have like all these symbols that have to do with water my dream journal is like
00:26:53.120clear water really icy cold water water that I'm swimming in water that I'm seeing there's a whole
00:26:58.500thing on water and then you can slowly kind of start to unmask the symbols that are already in
00:27:03.680your mind and that connects you as well to things around you I really think it's about connection
00:27:09.160um there's also and this could be something separate that would take a while longer but
00:27:15.140just channeling spirits is something that you could try out with that I would recommend someone
00:27:20.720who knows what they're doing to mentor you and who can set protections around you I wouldn't
00:27:26.980fuck with that I really wouldn't I'm really not one of those people who's like go channel a spirit
00:27:32.100it i'm like no don't don't do that like do that with the proper protections and pragmatism that's0.99
00:27:40.200needed to do that with someone who really knows and can really guide you into that and can also
00:27:45.620guide you out of that and especially at this time of year i think that's an important psa to have
00:27:51.560that you know now you have like all these people telling you go like the veil is thin
00:27:56.260connect to your ancestors and spirits. Really? I mean, is that wise? Do you want to do that?
00:28:03.020Why are you doing that? Who are you connecting to? Who are you allowing in? I know some people
00:28:08.340have very different thoughts around this topic and it's controversial. Some people will tell
00:28:14.140you to just go do it and it's going to be fine. I'm not one of those people. Also, because I
00:28:18.280realize spirit work and channeling work is so much about having boundaries and that's hard work.
00:28:24.760Anyone who's tried to learn boundaries, who's had a history of, let's say, quote unquote, bad boundaries or porous boundaries, knows how hard that is.
00:28:34.280I really think boundaries are such important work there.
00:28:37.500And I think, I wonder what Hilma Abclint did for that, like did not just to get herself into that state of channeling and understand she had other people with her that helped.
00:28:47.500But I wonder what they did to get out of that state and go into their day.
00:28:52.920Because I think that's important work too.
00:28:54.760We always talk about like getting into that state of channeling or into that state of
00:28:58.440state of porousness or knowing, but coming out of that is also important because we do
00:37:38.840this is one of my favorite cards in the deck everyone listening is just in suspense because
00:37:47.020they can't see it this is number 11 lust or the strength card in some other decks here we see a
00:37:54.940beautiful drawing painting by lady frida of a lion and a woman naked riding the lion leaning back
00:38:05.520holding a beautiful chalice a red chalice that has like blue flames coming out of it perhaps a
00:38:13.820chalice of blood or in any case a chalice that contains some sort of red fluid or is red itself
00:38:22.300perhaps it's a grail uh and she looks like she's in ecstasy someone in the chat emily says a diva
00:38:29.840cut yes emily she's holding a diva cut i do see this as menstrual blood for sure and the chalice
00:38:36.240is massive it's much it's like way out of proportion to her body and surrounding her are
00:38:43.860like emanations it's a very red card there's a lot of reds and purples lascivious colors there's
00:38:51.300some blue it's a very lusty card so how can we serve if we ask lust how we can serve
00:38:59.360I think we can serve through our desires, through reaching towards what is powerful, what is glorious, what is desirous, what is feisty, what is strong, what is lusty.
00:39:18.940I would say look to your deepest desires and carry them like as if you're riding on this lion, holding them up in your hands.
00:39:26.660yeah this is a this is a great card of service this is also a card typically this is for a
00:39:33.800different podcast episode but definitely a card of magic this is a card that hearkens to the
00:39:38.620goddess babylon who was channeled through artist marjorie cameron in part created by alistair
00:39:44.540crowley via john d but reaching back to ishtar and imana and the goddess babylon is very much
00:39:52.240about love but also about war about the body about sex but also about the virginal about like
00:39:59.820the light that we carry within us and how that light also burns strongly but it's very much an
00:40:07.620expressive card it's very much like a ticket to go to the furthest corners of your desires
00:40:14.360and explore them and it's a lusty card so yeah bring bring that energy whether you're solo or
00:40:24.840with partners or a partner bring that bring that lusty energy to your life and see what happens
00:40:30.020with lady frida i all i picture her as somebody i don't know about her lust life i don't know1.00
00:40:35.300about her sex life but i know she followed her desires you know she dyed her hair red she was1.00
00:40:40.200like painting in a trailer and then at the end of her life she goes and like lives on a houseboat
00:40:44.700in india she was in touch with her with her desire it makes sense that she wants that for us
00:40:50.760what a fun scandalous message to get when you're asking about service yeah i love it it is so
00:40:55.760scandalous i think yeah i think definitely go create in your own houseboat and see what happens
00:41:01.060but also this is a card about sex and about lust and desire so that could be something fun to
00:41:07.440explore, especially at this time of year. But I just think like, how are we in service to our
00:41:13.160desires? And how are we in service to desire itself? Desire is such a beautiful force. And
00:41:19.840that I think when we really allow ourselves to go for what we want, we really exercise our will.
00:41:29.100And I think a lot of us don't really know or don't feel entitled or empowered to go for what
00:41:35.540it is we truly want like think big what is it that you truly want like the woman in this card
00:41:40.840is not like oh I don't know I want a simple light like no she's like I'm I'm thinking like to the
00:41:48.300biggest primitives so I would say think big what is it that you truly want and I think it's hard
00:41:54.560to to sometimes know that because there's all these shoulds in our lives like what should I
00:42:01.820want? What should I be doing with my life? What should I do today? And it's like, well, what do
00:42:06.620I desire? What is my heart's true desire? And how could I even just admit that to myself? And by
00:42:14.460admitting that, then we automatically move more towards that. So I really think it is a card
00:42:20.620that's like, how are you in service to desire itself into your deepest desires? Yes. And like,
00:42:28.180what does it call into the world if we think of our lust our most profound like body yes
00:42:39.660listening to that like what does that serve you know like I think there are people who would say
00:42:46.220that that serves the devil even today you know there are people who would say that us people
00:42:53.160being unburdened by so many centuries of oppression on what we were allowed to desire
00:43:01.800was dangerous I think there's people who would feel that that was like a bit scary even in even
00:43:08.500in like our own lives like if secretly I've always known that I'm bi and but I'm married
00:43:14.980to be honest about even if it's like I don't need to uplift up turn my life but I might just need to
00:43:21.320say it out loud somehow yeah yeah you know I think it is change I think like I think it's
00:43:28.480deliciously scary I think that's the card would say if it's scary go for it like yes you don't
00:43:35.180have to rip apart your life but just like say it out loud to someone you trust or to yourself
00:43:40.220um write it down on a page burn the page but just say what it is that you want
00:43:47.460say it it's i think it it does have like maybe desire is so scary because it does have the power
00:43:55.900to completely change us or to change the things that we consider safe
00:44:00.860but i think that power is also something beautiful yeah and to say it and reframe it
00:44:09.240not as an act just of selfishness which it can feel so selfish to tell truths sometimes
00:44:17.060especially if they are going to turn over the world but say it as an act of service like an
00:44:23.040act of service to the future you know to tell the truth as an act of service about what you desire
00:44:29.600yeah i think calma would be into it i wish he'd be into it and like hearing you say that and
00:44:35.020phrase it like that makes me think that you you should not be putting down what it is that you
00:44:43.540desire because you don't know what that's going to bring to the world. We can't afford not to
00:44:48.980believe in ourselves. We have to believe in ourselves because we have something precious
00:44:53.700to bring. Like that grail cup, right? It's like that overflowing cup. We have something precious
00:45:00.260to bring. And that precious thing is only going to be available to us if we believe in ourselves,
00:45:06.060if we admit the full extent of our desires. And that is a beautiful way to be in service.
00:45:11.040that is service itself that service from a place that may have been framed as egotistical or as
00:45:20.120satanic or demonic but actually it's the opposite because our true desires are probably quite pure
00:45:27.340if it's our true desire it's pure then it's a pure flame it's a blue flame and that's a beautiful
00:45:33.600thing to bring into the world and to see how that manifests in the world around you and who that
00:45:39.320touches. I think a lot of the times we don't know what our desires are going to do in the world or
00:45:43.940who they're going to touch or how it's going to move us. But just letting that force flow through
00:45:49.360us takes a lot of strength and bravery. That card is often called strength. Pixie's depiction of
00:45:55.280that card is like a woman in a white dress sort of holding open the mouse of a lion, right?
00:46:01.340It's almost kind of virginal, like the white dress, and then she's like taming the beast in a way.
00:46:06.740But I think there's those two sides. There's the purity and there's the lust. I think those are almost the same thing. Really bringing forth your desire in all its fullness. It is pure. And you don't know who that's going to touch. And you don't know what you're doing by keeping that inside and keeping that hidden and keeping safe. I think it's a good dare.
00:46:27.220I think so, too. I think there's pieces to unpack, pieces that get added to this, right? It's as long as you don't hurt anybody, your will is the whole of the law. You know, like there's the consent piece that is the natural container within which that becomes really potent magic.
00:46:50.080I think that's what so much of what magical work is about it's like there's this limitlessness but
00:46:56.020let's make a container and within that something will change and I think consent is this incredibly
00:47:01.520beautiful powerful electric container that is sort of like the safety balance of our
00:47:09.120of our desire and our lust do you know what I mean yeah I also think it's beautiful just
00:47:14.240thinking of that phrase like without you know without fully knowing or being inside of a
00:47:18.740community who really works with that knowledge but just hearing it as words of a poem it is
00:47:24.060really beautiful because like if love is the law love under will that's a beautiful um piece of
00:47:32.840magical advice because it's not just love it's also law and love and then will added to that
00:47:40.960and i think i might have told you this before but my favorite definition of the witch is peter
00:47:46.580Gray's definition where he says you will find the witch at the end of a pointed finger and that
00:47:52.700makes me think of witches as both those who are accused and maligned but also witches are those
00:47:58.180who know how to bring their will outwards how to point towards and that is all about desire
00:48:05.860so if you know your own will and you can point that outwards that is that is magic that is power
00:48:14.880in that phrase, I think, love under will, because will is really the thing that's going to
00:48:21.200access that love and like put that love into service as well. And will is difficult because
00:48:28.280it requires us to really trust ourselves too, right? To really be like, I will this, I manifest
00:48:34.520this, I will this into being. There's a lot of power in that, like carrying that chalice.
00:48:40.260and if love is at the end of that will that you're bringing into the world
00:48:45.160I think that's a beautiful way to serve
00:48:47.480I hope that listeners you get a moment to go and receive that invitation that induction from Sandra
00:48:55.820that we'll share and maybe go into a channeling or automatic writing space with this idea of your
00:49:03.240lust and your love and your will and if you have a tarot deck any tarot deck this is a
00:49:10.140funny card because it's sometimes number 11 and sometimes number eight, but it's the strength card
00:49:14.360or the lust card. Just put that on your desk while you're doing some automatic writing or just even
00:49:20.140for the day, like whenever you're hearing this, whatever day you're listening to this on, go find
00:49:25.040that card and just ask yourself, maybe even write the question down on a piece of paper. What is my
00:49:31.520true desire? And just see what comes out. See what happens through the day. See what I think a lot of
00:49:39.320automatic writing doesn't have to do with writing at all. It has to do with sounds. It has to do
00:49:45.100with how your skin feels. It has to do with little voices that might come during the day or little
00:49:52.280birds you might hear or little things that might happen to you on the street. Pay attention to
00:49:57.240your environment. And that is already divination happening. And even just having that phrase
00:50:03.560written down what is my true desire on your desk on your altar on your fridge and having that tarot
00:50:11.920card out or just having the picture of it in your mind and just going through the whole day and
00:50:16.440maybe just coming back at the end of the day and doing some automatic writing or just putting a
00:50:21.400few words down or memories down of the day and just letting that sit with you I think that's one
00:50:27.000way of opening up to that force of desire and i think really like as you were saying to um
00:50:35.080how that really be from the space of service right i can only be a service if i know myself
00:50:42.760i can only know myself if i let myself desire and let myself be and let myself unfold into
00:50:49.560the crazy world with all my electricity and all my failures and faults and vulnerabilities
00:50:56.040and loves and truths all of that bring all of it not just the stuff that is polished and beautiful
00:51:02.760and ready to be presented and grammatically correct and upright and condoned and given an
00:51:08.920a or a check mark bring all of the mess and chaos that's what lust is bringing that's what the
00:51:16.280goddess babylon is bringing that's what artists bring we bring our mess and inside that mess is
00:51:24.280coiled our desire and it will come out as a clear blue flame if you let it oh thank you
00:51:32.120one of my favorite people to talk to you about all of this and i'm so glad that you're finally
00:51:38.980here on the podcast um thank you so much for having me this was such a fun discussion i really
00:51:44.540love that this was our visitor of the day out of 72 personalities and beings and entities she came
00:51:50.880to us today, which I think is brilliant. Yeah, I do. Bring your mess. That's like a defining
00:51:58.120note to myself because it's so much of all I have to offer. I know. Sometimes I feel like
00:52:04.280that's you. I'm like, well, that's all I got. So that's all people are getting.
00:52:08.500I'm glad you hear that that's of interest to you because that's enough today.
00:52:15.280That's what it's going to be. Nessie day. Yeah. We've invoked the chaos and the mess.