00:05:09.280and you know I also just felt like a lot of the books that are out there on witchcraft
00:05:13.500are kind of written from this perspective
00:05:17.380of oh I know this information and I'm going to
00:05:21.400impart it to you in this sort of how to book style
00:05:24.900way you know and even books on spirituality often
00:05:29.140kind of come from a position of like I've got this all sorted out now
00:05:33.380But I feel like we're all sort of really in this together, kind of struggling through all of this stuff together.
00:05:42.900And I really wanted to share on a really personal level why this stuff matters so much to me.
00:05:51.440People often are asking me right now, like, why witchcraft? Why now?
00:05:56.280And I think it's because it really touches on something really true about our experience of the world, you know, our longing in this capitalist culture where we are chained to our emails for, you know, to re-enchant the world, to have a more meaningful and purposeful life and to see nature as sacred.
00:06:18.880And we're all really hungering for justice.
00:06:22.000We're hungering for new kinds of spiritual connection that haven't been written yet.
00:06:29.640And, you know, the icon of the witch is something that is so powerful and holds so much resonance for so many people, but specifically women and female identifying people.
00:06:41.700And so I really wanted to show why, like why that matters so much, like why it means so much to me to have this and to be able to work in this way with witchcraft and the ideas that I wrestle with about it as well.
00:07:01.720Because I think another thing that's problematic in almost all spiritual traditions, or at least a lot of the time when we read about them, is that we're just supposed to sort of accept that, you know, the premise of the religion or the spiritual practice is true or accept that, you know, the authorities that give us that information are speaking correctly.
00:07:27.560And yet we don't really, I mean, I think most of us question or maybe we harbor like secret doubts or we feel some anxiety about it.
00:07:39.260And specifically with people who are interested in witchcraft or any kind of, you know, contemporary forms of spirituality, we might call new age spirituality.
00:07:47.540If you are a person of intelligence or you have an academic background, you can't be unaware of the criticisms that are directed towards such spiritualities.
00:08:06.440And so I think we can and should question and interrogate and explore and recognize that it's okay to have doubts.
00:08:19.940And so, you know, in my book, I talk about how I really wrestle with it.
00:08:24.860I really wrestle with the, you know, the legacy of witchcraft throughout my life, specifically because I was brought up with it.
00:08:33.340And I think a lot of people who are brought up in the craft have similar concerns and challenges because when people find out that I was brought up by a witch, they often have this sort of romantic or idealized view as if my entire childhood was spent dealing tarot cards and burning incense and chanting hymns to the goddess beneath the moonlight.
00:09:03.340And there was a lot of that, but there were all, like, I also got grounded and rebelled
00:09:09.520and my mother was not perfect and was dealing with her own, you know, very challenging
00:09:15.180upbringing and didn't know, you know, like also had to deal with the fact that she lives0.93
00:09:23.500in a capitalist patriarchal culture where she was subject to a lot of abuse and it was
00:09:27.840very difficult for her financially when I was a child.
00:09:30.140And so it's not like I just stepped outside of that, you know, because I was brought up in witchcraft and that just didn't happen.
00:09:39.720And for me, that's really important to acknowledge because I think it's very easy for people to look at their lives and think, oh, but I don't live this spiritual life.
00:09:50.220Like, we see, like, this idea of spirituality on Instagram where there's somebody, like, in, like, an immaculate white outfit sitting on a mountaintop, you know, with their hands in some, like, Zen mudra.
00:10:02.960And we're like, oh, but that's not the life that I'm living.
00:10:06.480And we kind of want to be that person, maybe, or some people do.
00:10:10.360But I think real spirituality and real witchcraft happens in the messiest places, and that's why we need it and use it.
00:10:21.100Yeah. And I think also so often from myself and listeners of our podcast that have gotten in touch with it, we're drawn to witchcraft because of our trauma.
00:10:36.000so to see a version of the world represented in this spiritual discourse that doesn't have a space
00:10:45.460for for the violence and mess and trauma that we've experienced just doesn't doesn't resonate
00:10:54.520with the kind of healing that we need that we're going looking for you know
00:10:58.040that is so true i mean i i i genuinely believe that this legacy of trauma is in fact what is
00:11:09.260inspiring so many people to be turning towards witchcraft right now because in fact the legacy
00:11:15.980of trauma the story the lineage of trauma is built in to the history of witchcraft you know
00:11:22.500So it's a practice of the exiles and the forgotten and the abused and the marginalized and has been certainly throughout, you know, its most recent several thousand years of history.
00:11:40.140even though some of that is definitely mythologized you know like i hear a lot of
00:11:46.100critiques um you know for instance recently there's kind of a famous uh like uh ceremonial
00:11:54.560magician who was saying you know oh you know only 40 to 50 000 witches were burned during
00:12:01.540the inquisition or were were killed and and in fact you know that i've heard ranges from
00:12:08.300from 40 000 to 100 000 sometimes more yeah when i was growing up of course i was like watching the
00:12:15.820movie the burning times yeah and um you know my mother was very very much believed um the
00:12:25.300information that was being put out at the time specifically in those spiritual communities that
00:12:30.600like up to nine million women um were burned or killed and you know
00:12:36.140i see that now as um as a mythology you know there is sort of the the mythology of women as
00:12:48.040martyr within the within the traditions of witchcraft and i talk about that a little bit in my
00:12:53.520book um but also like women even if they weren't being burned at the stake like yeah there is such
00:13:07.020a history of trauma and abuse within like the the lineage of women and female identifying people
00:13:14.820on this planet like that's like i look back to my mother and then her mother and then her mother
00:13:20.380and her mother and her mother and her mother and i can go back you know countless generations and0.54
00:13:27.880see like the the like the sort of endless assaults and challenges that women have faced
00:13:33.740and so even if they weren't being necessarily burned as witches i think that the reality of
00:13:39.120um you know abuse is was very present for women of the medieval period and then i think there's
00:13:48.380also the the broader context that so often that that that number can be treated dismissively by
00:13:54.940people who say you know it was exaggerated or those stories they weren't really there wasn't
00:14:00.180a unified um you know goddess worshiping culture or something that that sort of all gets taken on
00:14:06.020but one thing i found interesting during during the podcast is that wasn't the only place where
00:14:13.340colonizing force called people witches and use it as an excuse to murder people exactly and this is
00:14:20.880still happening today like all over the world you know specifically um sylvia federici talks about
00:14:27.660in her most recent book um specifically in african countries and um in the indian subcontinent you
00:14:35.020know and and for a lot of the same reasons that the the witches were persecuted in medieval europe
00:14:41.920And then, you know, once that was accomplished, as she describes, Sylvia Federici describes in Caliban and the Witch, then, you know, once the sort of total submission was accomplished in Europe, then the age of quote-unquote exploration began where the colonizing forces went out and enforced this brutal regime of exploitation and enslavement and, like, genocidal.
00:15:11.920murder basically around the rest of the world and and obviously to an even greater degree because
00:15:21.300um of the implicit racism and and white supremacy involved in the the people who are participating
00:15:29.320in that project so i mean all of this is very like heavy stuff and and
00:15:40.300and yet i see witchcraft i was speaking about all this with my mother because we were talking you
00:15:49.180know like it's i have to talk with her a lot now about all this because like her you know there's
00:15:54.700a lot that's very vulnerable revealed about her in the book as well but she was saying that
00:16:00.360Ultimately, the book is about, like, redemption and triumph and ecstasy in a way.
00:16:15.460Like, it's about, like, I feel like people turn to witchcraft, people turn to magic,
00:16:20.320people turn to their spiritual practices that connect them to the earth because it empowers us,
00:16:26.560because it emboldens us because we we then are able to create a relationship with the planet
00:16:37.880with the people around us with the other beings that we share this world with and that relationship
00:16:44.000is love and that is what saves us you know that's what that's what empowers us and strengthens us
00:16:51.140in our own lives on a really personal and micro level just you know in the simplest things like
00:16:56.980getting over a breakup for instance or trying to find a a source of income that can support you
00:17:05.360without destroying your soul you know on those really small levels but then on larger universal
00:17:12.700levels as well about you know about working together you know with our planet within the
00:17:21.120ecosystems and then with you know sharing the planet with other beings and other people
00:17:26.020um i believe that that that that witchcraft can support us in that as well or the way you know
00:17:32.760sort of the practices of the earth-based religions or spiritualities is a testimony to that i was
00:17:42.380listening to your podcast today yeah it's so good i it's because i was in there looking and i hadn't
00:17:50.560listened to the temperance episode and that card kept coming up for me um a couple months ago when
00:17:59.260i was asking about like kind of surviving this period of being back to work after my maternity
00:18:06.360you leave and uh and then i was listening to things and trying to not be nervous for our
00:18:14.020conversation again today and saw that you guys are are very professional witches you call
00:18:20.640yourselves professional witches you are professional witches do you know what i mean
00:18:25.160like there's that you you guys get if you declare witchcraft on your tax returns then i guess you
00:18:32.100earn the right to call yourself a professional like yeah you get technical and deep right off
00:18:38.300the bat your podcast is so amazing because I think people can go there and feel like very
00:18:43.920healed and very held and also like very schooled probably that's true I know I mean part of the
00:18:52.860challenge is that you know because Sarah and I practice so much and have both been doing it for
00:18:57.960so long it's easy for us to forget what we don't know so sometimes like for instance I was just
00:19:04.960thinking for this next episode that's coming out tomorrow like we talk about the cards of the year
00:19:12.020and I just remember that we don't really go into how we get that you know number or what the cards
00:19:19.240of the year are and we just kind of like assume a base level of knowledge um so I think that that's
00:19:26.620probably something we could we could work on but on the other hand like I feel like you know
00:19:33.060especially like for instance like with witch books or whatever like there's so many great
00:19:37.780beginning like basic level yeah witch books that are saying things like this is how you choose a
00:19:45.040crystal or you know this is what llamas is and so I feel like there's room for all you know yeah
00:19:55.020advanced some advanced topics in there as well yeah of course and i i mean i like that you
00:20:02.280are very much it seems to me from reading your incredibly beautiful book initiated which is
00:20:09.000coming out soon that uh you're very much like kind of in both camps in the sense that like
00:20:15.100you can get real real technical um and deep into some schools of thought but you also really like
00:20:23.500empower the idea that like you can just make up your own ritual and that that'll probably work
00:20:29.880too like you can stand in a stream and and speak to the stones and and that that's like totally
00:20:35.820allowed and it'll work yeah well that's so important because witchcraft is really about
00:20:43.600intimacy with life and it's it's definitely not about accepting someone else's authority structure
00:20:52.780for you um and and just sort of adopting that blindly having said that though
00:20:59.820i feel like it is important like lineage is important and like we don't just
00:21:09.380for you know just erase all of the knowledge base that's been built up um through you know
00:21:18.300generations of people doing this work but on the other hand i think it is important to have that
00:21:24.120direct mystical relationship with with with the divine with this with spirit with with the the
00:21:33.580spirits of the earth without that you can't really can't really practice witchcraft i mean well you
00:21:39.940you can try it but you you won't you won't really be getting out of it what you won't be doing it
00:21:46.160the spirit of what it is right yeah i think that's an interesting and important point that
00:21:52.020the respect for lineage especially when so much of it has been so violently erased so many times
00:21:59.640and in and by colonizing forces in so many cultures over and over and over again
00:22:05.820well yeah exactly like there's been so much erasure and also
00:22:11.320So there's a lot of problematic work that happens when just anybody kind of can just waltz in and say, oh, I'm a witch and I'm going to teach classes on witchcraft and, you know, start sort of spouting off whatever comes into their head.
00:22:35.260Or, you know, maybe they read a few books on witchcraft and then put forward all what they know about it.
00:22:44.460But the problem with that, of course, is that it's really easy to spread misinformation.
00:22:48.700And I think, like you said, though, the real main problem with it is that erasure of, like, depths of knowledge and experience.
00:22:56.680Or it feels a little bit like belittling almost to say that anybody could just sort of walk in and start doing it with the same depth as people who might have been doing it for like 20 years or even 50 years.
00:23:18.560And I think paying attention to our elders and listening to them and cherishing the knowledge that they earned over decades of experience is also really important.
00:23:30.100I love in your book that you, you sort of tell these stories that move the reader along with you through what you describe as an underworld. I mean, and it's very much a real world that you live and all live and get lost in.
00:23:52.500But then you also describe a journey through, like, a fairy world or summer land that can feel like you've made it.
00:24:19.760but like I think that can be a really terrifying part of the and maybe that's that's sort of you
00:24:26.300describe you know Persephone always in the underworld realizing she's still there that
00:24:30.960you know that that like I guess that's sort of a question I I always still have um is like
00:24:38.620how do we how do we keep finding that re-enchanted this world you know this this place that that not
00:24:47.920lost place do you know what i mean yeah well so if i'm understanding your question you're saying
00:24:56.740that the things that so often seem to present us with solutions to help us escape this underworld
00:25:04.660which is essentially the world where we are where we don't have agency right where we're sort of at
00:25:10.940the mercy of the forces around us and and they do not have our best interests at heart
00:25:16.520um how but that so often the things that we think might present us with this this freedom
00:25:26.820this key to our freedom often just invite us into yeah or lure us lure us into like a new version
00:25:35.280of subjugation is that am i understanding you correctly and that then you're asking
00:25:41.440you know how do we how do we how do we get out of that bind yes oh hell yes and I'm like taking
00:25:48.060advantage of an interview to ask you first day yeah well so first of all one of the things that
00:25:56.800I love about witchcraft is that it invites us to be to participate in our life and rather than just
00:26:05.780to see it as something that is happening to us but we're sort of invited into the game you know
00:26:12.140into the story where we are heroines of this story and so the the the object of the game is not
00:26:21.360to end it as swiftly as possible but to fully participate in it with a sense of power and
00:26:27.920agency and in fact that understanding is what ultimately leads us out of the underworld if
00:26:38.200if it can be said that we can in fact do that so what that means is that we and the
00:26:48.580conclusion i one of the conclusions i come to in the book which i hope is not like spoiler alert
00:26:55.960is that we don't look to find our way out but we we look to the ground right beneath us in other
00:27:05.460words we look to our life right here right now as it is and decide to transform it where we are
00:27:15.880you and and to do that requires you to acknowledge your own power and resources and skills and the
00:27:25.040book is called initiated because our lives are initiating us to give you know each initiation
00:27:33.340that we go through or that we undergo often unwillingly often without even realizing that
00:27:39.120we're doing it gives us a gift that we can then use to to transform that ground so transform that
00:27:48.980world around us so that we're not necessarily looking to escape which is what I was always
00:27:54.580doing as a young person like I just wanted to get out of this or get out of that you know like
00:27:59.540I wanted to get out of the jobs that I was working in you know I wanted to get out of a feeling of
00:28:05.200not being on the right path all the time I wanted to get out of you know like what I thought were
00:28:11.940like relationship um like wrong dimensions like where I was like this is not the right way that
00:28:22.180this is not the way this relationship should be happening there's some other ideal dimension for
00:28:28.000this relationship and i suddenly i somehow must have fallen into the wrong dimension sort of the
00:28:32.860the upside down completely and you know where i really found my power where i really really
00:28:39.780where i really feel like i truly became a witch was when i started to realize that
00:28:43.740there was no escape and that i was going to transform my life based on what was here
00:28:51.720And to do that requires that you really see the gifts that you have that only you have, that you've earned, and they're kind of the only keys that can open up the doors for you.
00:29:09.000And then to join forces with other people who have been through those initiations as well, and that this is the way that we will ultimately re-enchant the world by doing that.
00:29:22.980But I wonder if that answers your question or how you interpret that, then, like what that would look like for you or for a hypothetical someone.
00:29:31.860um i don't know what it would look like for a hypothetical someone but it does it does answer
00:29:38.580my question i i love that you come back to that phrase from sylvia federici of re-enchant the
00:29:45.900world that's that phrase has been like very talismanic for me in the past little while too
00:29:51.180and when i read um a friend that quote and i'll read it now um from your book about map makers
00:30:00.240um I reached that line at the end and uh it was like everybody stop and talk to me about
00:30:06.840re-enchant the world like pull up the text tell me what you're talking about I need to know
00:30:12.080everything about this immediately for someone who is like you know a film producer and was like
00:30:17.220wait a second yes something about that is so deeply right and maybe before we keep going
00:30:22.040if it's all right with you do you mind if I read that yeah that quote um
00:30:29.180in our travels through the underworld witches become map makers culture art the mystery
00:30:38.180religions these systems of symbols are maps somebody has to create them our musicians and
00:30:45.200healers poets and witches travel through the corridors of the underworld by torchlight
00:30:50.360we were not wrong to descend into these caves but for our own sakes for the peace of mind of
00:30:57.140those we love and for the sake of the planet, we who travel there need to not get lost.
00:31:03.400We can join our lights together and return to the world. We can use our symbols, our stories,
00:31:09.580our mystical methodologies to forge connections with each other in these underground spaces.
00:31:17.120Symbols and stories order our world. They create the narratives by which we live.
00:31:21.780It matters whose stories get told. It matters how we tell them. Imagination matters. Our connections
00:31:29.460to one another matter, as does the pleasure we take in our experience. Witches stand in solidarity0.99
00:31:36.360with those already doing this work, because people have been doing this work since humans first
00:31:42.540appeared on the surface of the earth. Now we listen to them. We participate. We use techniques
00:31:48.000of the healer, the poet, the artist, the scholar, the cunning folk
00:32:10.280I mean, the cost of writing that just, you know,
00:32:16.000like i really i really paid for it in blood it was such a painful process i like i had to go
00:32:24.320through so many layers of my own self-doubt and anxiety and insecurity and writer's block so that
00:32:30.700i kind of approached my writer's desk every day like on my bloody knees kind of wading through
00:32:38.560the snow up a forlorn inhospitable mountain to get to that place where I would just like sit there
00:32:46.440for hours and hours and nothing would come and nothing would come or things would come and I
00:32:51.400would doubt it and then you know every word in that book I was like one was like rested from
00:32:58.080the hands of a of a vengeful angel that I kind of pulled and that that was so I feel like you know
00:33:08.720a lot of it then I would have moments like of of sort of transcendence or lucidity especially
00:33:15.620you know I was doing a lot of work with different deities and spirits at the time
00:33:21.780um hecate hermes persephone um the muses and i was calling them in and you know they would come
00:33:31.340they would kind of come in like a rush and a holler into the room and like just kind of light
00:33:38.240it up with the power of their voices but you know there's a really there's a reason why like medieval
00:33:44.520mystics would like beat themselves with like leather straps and wear hair shirts and stuff
00:33:53.100to get to that moment of mystical transcendence there's something at least for me i would love
00:33:59.540to be able to to just kind of step into the room and be like ah here it is i'm like right in that
00:34:04.320place but um but i'm i yeah i i'm not always able to do that most of the time i'm kind of
00:34:12.940wrestling to get there but i relate to that feeling of wrestling to get there i do that
00:34:20.420with every storytelling episode of the podcast it's so frustrating i know right because the
00:34:27.700thing is like we always do get there if we sit there long enough when we do it that we would
00:34:32.460think that we could just trust it you know like of course for me you know the first draft is like
00:34:40.520a total horrendous nightmare of embarrassment where like if you read it you'd be like oh my
00:34:47.480god like like this is this is like something like just you know whatever shitty first drafts
00:34:54.560we've all heard about that and then you know in the second draft it kind of starts to take on a
00:34:59.440more like human form and then by the third draft I start to go oh this is this is pretty good and
00:35:05.920I'm proud of this you know I feel confident with this um and then sometimes when I go back and read
00:35:11.160some of it I'm like wow that is really good did I write that and then you know of course there's
00:35:15.960always things that I feel like I I wish I would have changed or done more and usually that stuff
00:35:26.080has to do with either lovers or parents or people that I love who I'm talking about you know when
00:35:34.920writing about another person I just want to do them justice you know like I want to always approach
00:35:41.160them with like reverence and awe and beauty and humility and um and also like honesty for my own
00:35:49.120experience and you know there's certain moments where I was like oh did I really do that person
00:35:56.140justice like was I generous enough like was I accurate enough and and I always want to be but
00:36:02.860But there's almost like I just feel like I could just go back
00:36:05.900and write more and more and more about different people that I've encountered
00:36:10.880because, you know, each person is a world unto themselves, as Rolka says.
00:36:16.520And there's infinite versions of our stories.
00:36:19.720So at a certain point, you do have to have faith that the thing that emerged
00:36:25.500or the line that you found through or, like, the path that you found
00:36:29.980through that particular part of the underworld was okay
00:36:32.680it was enough you know well yeah well just for example recently I was speaking with my mother
00:36:38.740about this section in the book where I was talking about how as a child I used to have
00:36:44.120horrible nightmares a lot of witches have this experience you know I had horrible nightmares and
00:36:49.500and I would my I would go get my mother and I would sleep with her or I would have her come
00:36:56.440and sleep with me which is also I think very common for a lot of children but then when my
00:37:03.180mother married my stepfather he wouldn't allow me into the room and I but I would still have
00:37:10.740these horrible nightmares but he didn't want me in his room or touching his bed or any of that
00:37:14.520and so my mother would wake up and find me like sleeping on the floor outside of their bedroom
00:37:20.420door and she would just have to kind of step over me as I was like sleeping there curled up in my
00:37:26.120blanket and she would feel so horrible and it really felt like a true exile for me because I
00:37:31.580had this love that I was getting and then I wasn't getting it anymore and then my brother was allowed
00:37:36.420when he was born to sleep in their room and touch their bed and do all of that stuff which which I
00:37:42.140you know which hurt obviously but recently I was speaking with my mother because of course for her
00:37:48.800reading the book there's a lot of moments where she she feels like she said like she wants to
00:37:53.640defend herself or like she wants to um like she wants to explain or something and she said that
00:38:00.380you know because she had suffered such extraordinary abuse at the hands of her father um that you know
00:38:08.180my stepfather knew that and so he was terrified of being accused of the same thing um and also
00:38:15.120she was doing a lot of work for you know this thing this project called save which was like
00:38:19.920an anti-child abuse project and just he just didn't want to have anything to do with that
00:38:27.480and so he erred on the side of extreme caution by basically being like she can't come in
00:38:31.660her room she can't touch her bed like I will not get anywhere near this child and so even
00:38:38.380though of course as a child that wouldn't have mattered to me I wouldn't have known
00:38:42.340that or understood that like I I like it still hurt me that I was you know sleeping on the floor
00:38:50.780as an exile like that but if I had known that while I was writing it I feel like maybe I might
00:38:59.140have approached that differently or at least said something about that but I didn't know that then
00:39:04.720you know she read the book and then she was like she was telling me about that moment and so exactly
00:39:12.000as you're saying you know trying to approach the truth like I wrote the truth as I understood it
00:39:15.880in that moment but I also wrote and one of the reasons why it was was painful and why I always
00:39:21.760pushed on my knees was because I also knew that like the truth that I feel about a moment in my
00:39:28.640life or about witchcraft or about what the underworld is or about any relationship that
00:39:34.320I've had is like that truth from that moment but like all of us can look back at relationships that
00:39:39.640we might have had or opinions that we would have had um or spiritual practices that we might have
00:39:44.940had and have a very different relationship to them now than we did when we were in them and
00:39:50.480then even 10 years from now we'll have a different relationship or we'll see it in a different way
00:39:54.620and so you know wanting to tell the truth and then not always being able to do that or not even
00:40:02.420being like or just being like well this is one truth yeah um was was a big part of the challenge
00:40:08.580But interestingly, I really, towards the end of the book, towards the final draft of the book, was working a lot with calling in Mercury or Hermes, the god of communication, and kind of grudgingly because I just identify more with female goddesses.
00:40:29.560And also he's like Greek and Roman, which is another, you know, like, obviously we have issues with the Greeks and the Romans, especially as feminists or anti, you know, colonized, anti-colonialists.
00:40:44.540But nevertheless, he's the one who came through for me.
00:40:47.280But interestingly, he's also the deity of liars and thieves and as well as of communication.
00:40:57.820And I think it's so interesting how those communication and lying are often so bound up in one another.
00:41:05.580But what's interesting about him, if you read the works of Jeanette Paris, there's an amazing book called Pagan Meditations, where she talks about the Hermes-Mercury archetype.
00:41:18.640She talks about how when he lies, it's because he's using his words to advantage him in an unfair playing field.
00:41:30.700And she talks about how Aphrodite and other sort of feminized gods and goddesses, since Mercury is definitely the queer god, so he's sort of put in that sort of feminized camp, that they're using the manipulation of the truth or the way that they tell the truth in order to gain power in a situation that is usually marked by brute force or by, like,0.75
00:41:59.440sanction the authorities uh like judicial authorities sanctioning them or0.91
00:42:05.720so interesting yes the beautiful lie yeah yeah yeah oh I love that yeah I
00:42:14.380um I want to ask you more about your guides when you call yeah so you you've talked about
00:42:23.040calling in different people and in the story you talk um about like a childhood guide in the form
00:42:29.080of an animal the alligator crocodile yeah yeah weezer weezer i love crocodile crocodile and you
00:42:40.200describe like kind of calling him up to you and curling around you and like you're you know you're
00:42:46.800really making like a a suggestion or an offering that like we we can kind of call these you look i
00:42:58.280I mean, we can call these things by whatever names or give them characters or see them as animals.
00:43:04.280But we kind of build an energy around them by doing that.
00:43:15.660And the way that we understand them is so, the way that we can understand them, it's like simple but also extremely complicated.
00:43:23.460complicated, like in that, you know, our guides appear and we, they, they, they come to us,
00:43:36.900they call to us and they call to us. We recognize them. We pay attention to them. So they are here
00:43:44.900all the time. And, but you might start getting signals. Like you might start seeing alligators
00:43:51.700everywhere or maybe you start hearing about a deity um like mercury or hermes or venus or
00:43:59.280aphrodite or shun or who whatever tradition or lineage you're working through and um you know
00:44:06.300it's like you're not inventing them that they are already there but then through the power of your0.61
00:44:11.440attention you're you're you're sort of choosing them and you're seeing them and and and they are
00:44:18.640essentially facets of um the the the universal right they're facets of the universal or the
00:44:30.360absolute diamond of spirit at large um and so they they operate in a specific way and then by
00:44:38.060aligning yourself with your guides it's it's built into the language of what a guide is like a guide
00:44:44.340is something that leads you it's something that leads you forward it's something that gives you
00:44:48.620direction and so you know i think a lot of the time when we listen to people in new age or
00:44:54.240spirituality or even in witchcraft talking about their guides i'm sure that people standing around
00:45:00.420the margins of this are kind of eye rolling and being like what are they talking about but really
00:45:04.700it's the it's the spirit of the thing that leads you forward and so if you're uncomfortable saying
00:45:11.040oh, my guide is, you know, Hermes Trismegestus or my guide is, you know, Hildegard von Bingen or my guide is, you know, Mercury,
00:45:25.740then you can say, you know, you can align yourself with principles like love or justice or awareness or, you know, connection or intimacy with the world.
00:45:40.760and let that thing guide you but then you know it doesn't it's not so important like
00:45:47.180that you believe that oh this is a deity that is guiding me you can also think of it as you know
00:45:56.540your adult self or the part of you that wants the best for you or you know the healed part of you
00:46:04.240Like if that feels more comfortable for you.
00:46:07.940In the work that I've done with my guides, you know, when we go in really deep, you know, they tell me that it doesn't matter.
00:46:18.320Like you don't have to believe it for it to work.
00:46:22.220You just have to start to align and harmonize yourself with the energy.
00:46:26.740So, you know, whether or not you believe Hermes Mercury is coming to you, you know, by calling his name, by doing the invocations, by lighting the incense, by lighting the candles, by doing the dances, by saying the prayers, by singing the songs, you're entering into a relationship with what is essentially this idea of a thing.
00:46:53.700And that idea leads you forward. That idea starts to reflect itself in you, in the way that you work in the world, in the energy that how things transpire around you or the pattern of events as they occur around you.
00:47:13.320And so you sort of start to feel the way they move through your life.
00:47:17.680And to me, that is really interesting and really exhilarating and also very empowering because then it means that we get to decide what we want to be guided by.
00:47:27.400You know, if we're guided by voices, whose voices?
00:47:35.320And so it's important that when we start to, so, you know, for instance, in the book, I had my Weezer, my crocodile guide, and it was really about this primordial power, this sort of protective spirit that was at home and comfortable in the deeps and in the swamps.
00:48:04.420and in the regions where I was being exiled and pushed into.
00:48:09.440And it was going to guard and protect me there.
00:48:12.140A lot of the times animal spirits in particular deal with kinds of energy
00:48:21.020that have not been manipulated by human intent.
00:48:28.240There's something primordial about them, something beyond language.
00:48:32.600um they're working in a different way than like let's say guides that are um human in form you
00:48:38.560know are often quite complicated um in that in as as humans are um but so you know we enter into
00:48:46.520relationships with them and and and for pagans you know pagan gods deities spirits they're not
00:48:55.060perfect again as um Jeanette Paris talks about you know in the in the pagan pantheons they're
00:49:03.800working in in concert in dialogue with one another you know they're they they're an ecosystem of
00:49:11.380energies right so there's not just the one god that is all good but that they need each other
00:49:16.500to balance each other out in the same way that it's not you know corn is great but if it's all
00:49:21.480corn it's like a monoculture that's ultimately destructive to the ecosystem but when all the
00:49:27.980plants and all the animals and all the spirits are there working together and in harmony um then
00:49:33.860then we have flourishing then we have vibrancy and we we can do that in our own life so when
00:49:42.500something is out of balance like let's say um you know you're you're you're not getting enough done
00:49:50.340And maybe you do need to channel some energy of aggression like Mars or something or something more martial or focused.
00:49:58.420But, of course, if that energy gets out of balance, if that spirit gets out of balance, then you're going to want to turn to Aphrodite or Venus or Bridget or, you know, other goddesses of love.
00:50:12.340Although Bridget, you know, also has her warrior aspect as well.
00:50:16.840so yeah I've had some really powerful experiences with Mars not my usual go-to but when I felt
00:50:25.520deeply trapped when my daughter was sick and we couldn't get appointments for specialists to help
00:50:33.020her and I just felt completely paralyzed she and I did a really fun little baby Martian ritual
00:50:39.800that's so great what did you do I just like it was you know maybe maybe you won't love this based
00:50:48.540on the conversation we started with but I'm like a big amateur improviser so I just grabbed walked
00:50:57.140around my house with her holding her and singing and found red and orange things that we could find
00:51:04.620and spicy things and gathered them all on the table and leaves and we made like a spicy cocktail
00:51:13.940and just sort of sang and danced and then spoke out loud about the help that we needed and sort
00:51:21.580of stomped around and she was like seven months old so she was just laughing that sounds great
00:51:29.940I mean, I think that's so beautiful. That's exactly, I mean, I think that's exactly right. Like you approach them with like love and reverence and joy and paying attention and using what you have available to you in your environment. And, you know, you build that relationship.
00:51:47.780And of course, like, yeah, maybe later on as your relationships, you know, if you work with Martian energy more in the future, you'll develop and add to and enhance those rituals, you know, maybe with some traditions or some traditional things.
00:52:04.880But that is like such a great way to begin to open up the relationship.
00:52:10.540And also we can just see from that by doing that, you know, you're empowering yourself.
00:52:19.320You know, you're moving, you're making choices, you're harmonizing with different colors, with different energies,
00:52:25.920like the energy of decisiveness like the energy of choice you know the energy of um dealing with
00:52:33.200uh with heat and and and and learning to use that and enjoy that and celebrate it and direct it as
00:52:41.660you need to so i mean it has all the important elements of ritual it was exactly that what you
00:52:48.560described because um the the day the days that followed was very much a balance between me
00:52:56.480suddenly having new inspiration for things i could try and acting on it right away and not feeling
00:53:03.100paralyzed and and then the world really reciprocating and some really i mean we had
00:53:09.260three cancellations within a week so that we were able to see specialists that we thought would be
00:53:13.340months away and you know receptionists didn't give the appointment to the person in front of us
00:53:18.440because he was rude and angry but gave the appointment to us because you know everything
00:53:22.700just sort of it was us and it was the world meeting us you know yeah that's brilliant it
00:53:30.800sounds like you're that was some powerful witchcraft that you and your daughter did0.59
00:53:35.260yeah she's she's a powerful witch she she keeps picking up sticks and shaking them with her whole
00:53:40.860calling down the spirit yeah she's deeply hilariously witchy all on her own
00:53:52.680um i don't want to take so much of your time i know you're so busy but can i ask
00:53:58.940this is my closing question these days um if you have
00:54:05.540ritual or a message from your guides or a meditation or a thought that you can leave
00:54:14.140with me and with our listeners that we can take forward from the oracle of los angeles into our
00:54:21.900lives and our traumas yeah so you know for for people who are just starting out i always tell
00:54:29.200them to create an altar because to create an altar is to create space in your life for
00:54:38.240spirit it's like to give your spiritual practice your witch practice a home you know like it it
00:54:46.220situates it in your life so build an altar use your intuition have something from each of the
00:54:52.100four elements water air earth and fire so for water you might have shells or a cup of water
00:54:59.340for air you might have feathers or incense or things that are yellow or blue for fire you'll
00:55:09.240have candles or sulfur or things that are orange or red and then for earth you know witches often
00:55:17.320have pentacles but they could also have stones you can have fruit flowers are
00:55:22.480also welcome on altars you'll get an image of the guide that you want to work
00:55:28.120with whether it's a deity or some kind of saint like you know like an artist
00:55:34.600that you admire or a hero of yours like a you know a social justice hero maybe
00:55:41.500Maybe it's like Harriet Tubman, for instance, or an ancestor that you want to work with,