Rowan & Pine: A Feminist Folklore & Mythology Podcast - Episode Forty： HALLOWEEN Psychopomps - Hermes and his dorky lil' sandals

00:00:00.000 hello happy halloween guys happy halloween i remember to say it

00:00:15.480 we are recording this a little bit before halloween in my time my husband has just broken

00:00:23.640 his arm you guys will probably have heard a little bit about that in his episode which

00:00:29.740 with the last episode it's like every other sentence he's like yeah back when i broke my arm

00:00:35.940 yeah i remember when i broke my arm so he's in a terrible mood upstairs watching youtube videos on

00:00:42.320 how to sleep with a broken arm oh my goodness i just had to bring him an ice pack and some ice

00:00:48.140 cream before emily and i started recording i also have to state the fact that he fell

00:00:54.640 and broke his arm because he was wearing crocs 0.95

00:00:59.100 Emily has not stopped giving me shit for having crocs since I bought crocs 0.98

00:01:05.680 and she has been extremely validated now because Ewan fell and broke his arm 0.99

00:01:10.960 because he slipped on a patch of wet moss

00:01:14.680 I told my boss this earlier and he was like

00:01:17.260 maybe he should just lie and say he was playing football

00:01:19.680 or like my Superman cape got caught

00:01:24.280 i was defending my home against intruders or even just like change up the kind of footwear that

00:01:32.680 you're wearing yeah hope you guys enjoyed ewan's episode that we recorded um and thank you for 0.97

00:01:40.880 being nice about him uh slash fuck you for not being nice about this i don't know how people 0.78

00:01:47.100 are going to respond i was gonna say it would be really funny if you were like oh thanks for being 0.98

00:01:51.960 so nice about him coming on the show and people were not nice yeah he already said he was like

00:02:00.120 what am i not allowed to say i was like just please try not to get me canceled

00:02:03.240 or like have emily a podcast to come back to after this season that would be terrible my brain just

00:02:11.580 went down like a rabbit hole of all the things that like somebody could say that would just be

00:02:16.780 awful but i don't feel like your husband would say it no i wouldn't have married him um and

00:02:22.580 even if he does say something off color i have editing powers so i can get rid of them also i

00:02:30.280 need to state that i was actively blaming the crocs for his accident when they were still in

00:02:37.840 the hospital yes literally he was in the ambulance when you were blaming you're like see

00:02:46.160 our friend was like not the time emily and i was just like in my head i didn't say it but in my

00:02:52.560 head i'm like it's not like he's in a coma it's his arm it's funny like he's just he's just feeling

00:03:00.340 very sorry for himself he's fine he's okay i'm sure by the time we have recorded his episode

00:03:05.460 he'll be feeling a lot better or developed a pain medication addiction who knows well

00:03:10.340 hopefully that doesn't happen it takes a very dark turn after this podcast

00:03:18.540 let's take it a dark turn because it's halloween it's the best spooky day of the year

00:03:27.120 halloween so happy i was gonna say people need to make halloween music but they already do

00:03:33.480 but i feel like halloween needs a theme song well most people just use this is halloween true

00:03:39.340 um but as somebody who controversially thinks tim burton is overrated uh that's never been my

00:03:48.100 thing i've never been into tim burton which is funny because you look at me and you're like

00:03:52.600 she's a tim burton person and i am not i like some of tim burton stuff a lot of it i'm not into

00:03:59.740 but yeah i was like the weird kid who liked the nightmare before christmas when i was like

00:04:06.380 four years old and it tim burton has a special place in my heart for that also i need to send

00:04:14.760 you i should send you or you should look it up the short that he did it's called vincent

00:04:19.480 oh and it's um narrated by vincent price oh it's really it's it's cute and it's like a fun little

00:04:28.060 spooky thing that's probably like my second favorite thing that he's done yeah i like don't

00:04:33.200 get me wrong i appreciate that tim burton brought like goth and spooky stuff like made it more like

00:04:38.880 accessible and i feel like we wouldn't have so many other things without his work yeah but um

00:04:43.780 was never really my thing yeah there's an amazing like i haven't watched i watched it maybe two

00:04:49.320 years ago it's a woman who is a huge fan but she does like a full breakdown of all of his work and

00:04:55.600 she splits it into eras and she talks about like when he sort of changed things and when like why

00:05:01.540 she doesn't like certain eras of his

00:05:03.580 compared to others, which is really

00:05:05.100 it was really cool to see it like broken down that way

00:05:07.020 and I was like, oh yeah, well that would

00:05:08.360 I feel that way too, and I never knew

00:05:10.960 why. I also have to correct myself

00:05:13.240 because Tim Burton did not direct

00:05:15.140 The Nightmare Before Christmas

00:05:16.500 He's a producer, right?

00:05:19.480 Is that what it is?

00:05:20.820 He is the one who wrote the story

00:05:23.340 The Nightmare Before Christmas

00:05:24.680 and then Henry Selick

00:05:27.360 is the director

00:05:28.180 and Henry Selick also did Coraline

00:05:31.360 which is my daughter's current favorite movie which is hilarious because it is kind of creepy

00:05:36.880 but my little one and a half year old loves it oh your daughter likes the spooky creepy stuff

00:05:44.020 yeah i i hope color me shocked i hope it stays that way but if it doesn't you know i will still

00:05:50.140 accept her i guess she might come back to it in her team yeah if it ever leaves who knows who

00:05:56.200 knows who she'll be we'll see just start planting some emily the strange merch around there yeah

00:06:01.560 she'll be like it's mommy she has a couple of her favorite stuffed animals are bats

00:06:07.160 so also exciting job done job done you've done well bravo to you

00:06:14.080 anywho yes um this is going up on halloween so as always we do some spooky

00:06:23.520 darker death themed stuff and this episode is about psychopomps.

00:06:31.360 I could not resist doing that.

00:06:35.020 So psychopomps I have to admit is a new word for me.

00:06:38.260 Yeah I don't even know what it is.

00:06:39.980 We'll get into it.

00:06:40.780 Tell me right now.

00:06:43.380 We have to give a shout out to Tony who is one of our big cheerleaders because

00:06:47.940 um i put a little general on our discord which anybody can ask to join that's completely fine

00:06:56.620 it's our it's always linked in our descriptions asked our discord if there was anything that

00:07:02.440 people thought that we should cover or that we might like to cover so tony asked if we could

00:07:08.180 talk about the grim reaper which you will have already had your grim reaper pine cones episode

00:07:13.700 hope you enjoyed it it was amazing i'm so good tony requested grim reaper and that threw me

00:07:20.900 down a rabbit hole of psychopomps because i didn't know there was a name for what the grim

00:07:25.020 reaper technically is that's so funny that the grim reaper falls under a category and it's not

00:07:31.340 just a standalone thing right yeah there are other versions in cultures that are like share

00:07:37.660 characteristics and as we're always saying like folklore travels across distances and it gets

00:07:44.340 adapted and changed depending on the culture so psychopomp for the definition is an entity who

00:07:51.400 conducts spirits or souls into the other world it is a word with its roots in ancient greece and it

00:07:58.400 refers to beings who guide us through transitions whether from unconscious to conscious or from life

00:08:04.300 to death these figures are often tricksters healers midwives or shapeshifters and they cross

00:08:11.240 borders between words they are a guide who helps souls travel from the world of the living to the

00:08:16.360 afterlife but crucially they do not control death itself so that is a big distinction to make

00:08:21.860 i love that the grim reaper and a midwife are like the same person yeah they're like the same

00:08:30.480 person but yeah yeah that's too funny two halves of the same whole yeah so yeah they're they're

00:08:37.520 the ones who ensure that the soul reaches their destination safety safely on the other hand a

00:08:43.480 death deity has direct control and decision making powers over life and death they often rule or

00:08:49.820 decide the fate of souls another point of death deities is they usually govern the realm of the 0.99

00:08:55.360 dead so they're usually like hot shit king shit they're like Hades or something like that yes okay 0.99

00:09:02.940 so just some bullet points psychopomps are generally but not always adept at guiding 0.99

00:09:09.720 others through transformative experiences such as death compassionate non-judgmental and friendly

00:09:15.060 they're experienced border crossers and walkers between the worlds they are tricksters who will

00:09:20.720 do whatever is required to achieve their goals they can be shapeshifters who change their

00:09:25.980 appearance to match the setting and the times they are arbiters of change for individuals and

00:09:32.200 the culture and they are usually magical beings who can facilitate healing in unexpected ways

00:09:38.440 i thrive when you give me examples i always need examples of things because i'm like

00:09:44.480 okay conceptually i'm sort of getting it but like make it real for me so yeah i'm in the same boat

00:09:51.280 yeah i don't know what kind of learner that is is it visual i'm sure there's some sort of name to

00:09:56.120 it probably i don't know that yeah yeah it's like i i swear we've talked about on the podcast before

00:10:04.320 and i think tons of people feel this way but like if you read me the rules to a game i don't get it

00:10:10.180 yeah you learn by example yeah practical so the examples are we'll go to egypt for it okay so

00:10:17.820 we have osiris and anubis osiris was the god who ruled over death and the afterlife while anubis

00:10:25.960 served as a psychopomp guiding souls to their final judgment osiris represented death resurrection

00:10:32.800 and the cycle of the nile floods which were essential for farming according to myth osiris

00:10:38.380 was killed by his brother set but was brought back to life for a while by his wife and sister

00:10:42.720 isis we mentioned isis in the harpies episode isis keeps coming up for us i have she's on my

00:10:50.240 necklace yeah it's unfortunate that she shares the name of the terrorist organization because

00:10:55.320 she's pretty cool terrorists ruin everything once again what a controversial statement

00:11:00.420 terrorism ruins the party

00:11:02.400 Osiris could not stay

00:11:06.980 in the land of the living which is why

00:11:08.680 he became the ruler of the underworld

00:11:10.740 the rules of his

00:11:13.120 governance were

00:11:14.860 to enter the underworld the body

00:11:17.140 needed to be preserved which led to

00:11:19.100 the practice of mummification

00:11:20.460 the deceased also had to be judged

00:11:23.080 as righteous by the 42 gods

00:11:25.140 in the hall of judgment

00:11:26.040 each god was asked a question and the deceased

00:11:28.960 had to answer truthfully with no. The process was called the negative confession because they

00:11:34.600 had to say no. In the Osiris myth, Anubis is the one who embalmed and wrapped Osiris's body which

00:11:40.940 made him the god of embalmers. What is interesting about Anubis is that Osiris basically put him out

00:11:49.200 of a job. Anubis used to be the main god of the dead. He is often shown with the head of a jackal

00:11:56.040 and he was important to those who practice necromancy and magic.

00:12:01.460 He was called upon in spells to summon spirits, ancestors or gods from the other world.

00:12:07.700 Anubis is most famous for overseeing the weighing of the heart ceremony.

00:12:12.360 So in that ceremony, the heart of the deceased was weighed against the feather of Mat,

00:12:17.440 the goddess of truth and justice.

00:12:18.940 If the heart was lighter, the person could enter into the afterlife.

00:12:22.920 If it was heavier, they faced punishment.

00:12:26.040 And this is where we're going to transition into a folktale.

00:12:29.600 Also, I didn't want to interrupt what you were saying, but it was funny because we in the U.S. say embalm, like more with an L in there.

00:12:42.300 And the way you said it.

00:12:43.500 Oh, and I said bomb?

00:12:44.540 Yeah, embalm.

00:12:46.120 I was like, what is that?

00:12:49.860 I said, wait a minute.

00:12:50.980 in the ancient lands of egypt where the sun blazed fiercely and the nile flowed with life

00:12:59.760 a tale of betrayal and redemption unfolded a tale of anubis the jackal-headed guardian of the

00:13:07.060 afterlife after the treacherous murder of osiris noble god of the underworld by his envious brother

00:13:15.440 Set, chaos reigned. His devoted wife Isis embarked on a perilous journey to find Osiris's dismembered

00:13:24.760 body, and during her quest, she uncovered a hidden secret. Her sister, Nephthys, had birthed a child

00:13:33.060 with Osiris, a child abandoned in fear of Set's wrath. With the heart of a mother, Isis rescued

00:13:41.820 the forsaken infant, naming him Anubis. Raised under her nurturing gaze, Anubis grew into

00:13:48.800 a loyal protector, destined for greatness. When Osiris' body was finally recovered, it

00:13:56.360 lay in ruins, and the sun god Ra called upon Anubis to assist in a sacred rite, the embalming

00:14:03.580 of Osiris. With the help of Horus and Thoth, Anubis wrapped the god's body in linen.

00:14:12.380 performing the mystical opening of the mouth ceremony

00:14:15.080 to ensure that Osiris would see and hear in the afterlife,

00:14:19.420 even as Set plotted to destroy his brother's body for good.

00:14:24.820 Cunning and relentless, Set transformed into a shadow,

00:14:29.280 stealing Osiris' body from the sacred Wabbit, the place of embalming.

00:14:34.060 But Anubis, vigilant and swift, pursued the thief,

00:14:38.420 undeterred by Set's transformations into a bull and a great cat.

00:14:45.120 Time and time again, Anubis outsmarted his uncle,

00:14:49.460 punishing him for his treachery,

00:14:51.660 branding him for his sins and imprisoning him in Saka.

00:14:55.820 Yet Set's malice knew no bounds.

00:14:57.740 Each time he escaped, he returned to seek vengeance.

00:15:03.800 At last, Anubis, fueled by righteous fury,

00:15:07.120 confronted Set one final time.

00:15:10.300 He captured him, flayed his skin

00:15:12.560 and donned the hide as a symbol of victory.

00:15:16.820 With the power of Osiris behind him

00:15:18.940 Anubis marched into Set's camp

00:15:21.180 striking down his army with a single mighty blow.

00:15:26.140 Thus, the cycle of conflict between the gods

00:15:29.360 came to a climax

00:15:30.380 and Anubis emerged not just as a protector of the dead

00:15:34.360 but as a warrior whose strength

00:15:36.580 and cunning secured the balance

00:15:38.280 between life and death

00:15:39.820 forever sealing his fate as guardian

00:15:42.560 of the afterlife 0.99

00:15:43.660 it's metal as fuck 0.99

00:15:46.600 metal as fuck 0.99

00:15:49.320 and it solidifies 0.99

00:15:52.000 Anubis' role as the guardian

00:15:54.580 of the afterlife and the protector of the balance

00:15:56.660 between life and death

00:15:57.540 so there's Uncle Daddy and Daddy Uncle

00:15:59.900 yeah 0.99

00:16:03.980 so set was a he was a bit of a dick wasn't he yeah he sounds like it yeah this is like a real uh 0.99

00:16:14.540 uh soap opera i was just gonna say i love that like all of these old myths are so soap opera 0.99

00:16:22.920 like it's like it's like you're watching a soap opera it's like oh no she's pregnant to another

00:16:26.980 guy but she's gonna hide the baby yeah and um then like the baby grows up and then comes back

00:16:33.220 to kill him because he killed his adopted dad you know pretty wild so the most important thing

00:16:40.780 to bring from that is that anubis and osiris are two separate beings so osiris is basically the 0.64

00:16:47.660 god of death and anubis looking like a jackal is the psychopomp who ushers people to the other world

00:16:55.460 two separate people when i was in fifth or sixth grade my teacher read us

00:17:02.080 a book oh i wish i could remember what it was but anubis was in it and like my teacher did

00:17:09.940 such a good job reading it that i was like so freaked out by anubis oh really yeah because

00:17:17.200 he was portrayed as kind of like this dark shadowy dog like in the like a cave or something

00:17:22.380 I don't even know but I was just like oh I'm scared if you think about it like imagine like

00:17:27.440 the first thing you see upon death is like this man with the head of a jackal yeah so like pointy

00:17:33.780 ears and everything yeah he's always like standing upright so yeah you see him in like in like

00:17:40.280 Egyptian art and in pyramid art and tomb art and all of that and yeah it's definitely um he cuts

00:17:48.580 an iconic figure yeah for sure so then we have to of course talk about the ultimate psychopomp

00:17:57.380 that we all know and that I actually was like oh I'll just do an episode about him and then I was

00:18:03.220 like wait this is a lot more complicated and I thought Karen from the Greek mythology

00:18:10.760 which i was calling charon my entire life can you imagine though like this this psychopomp

00:18:19.440 having like the karen haircut yeah yeah that's one of those ones that like everything that i

00:18:27.720 looked up like pronunciation wise i was like that can't be how you say that it can't be karen yeah

00:18:32.760 i have a feeling there's a bit more of a rolled r in there but i think i might sound a little bit

00:18:37.960 pretentious if i keep saying cut in your irish so it feels like a little more natural i think for me

00:18:44.200 it feels more i don't know if like appropriate to this a word i don't know yeah or like i know

00:18:52.940 what you mean like pretentiously or like you know it's it's not your word to pronounce that way

00:18:57.900 croissant croissant yeah it drives you nuts when i say croissant

00:19:02.120 because he's always like just say croissant like the rest of us croissant oh my gosh so the greeks

00:19:13.100 they personified death the greeks are interesting right because they technically have two psychopomps

00:19:18.660 but one of them is more of a psychopomps than the other right so the greeks personified death

00:19:24.060 as a being called thanatos who was the twin brother of hypnos who's the god of sleep which

00:19:30.660 i thought it's really cool it's really interesting yeah it's like death and sleep are so close when

00:19:35.720 i first explored psychopomps i was drawn to caron the ferryman so f-e-r-r-y yes not f-a-i-r-y

00:19:47.800 i'm not like it's not a slur yeah i was gonna say

00:19:52.880 he is the mythical ferryman as in on a ferry that's so funny you're a little he's a wee

00:20:05.520 ferryman he's a wee ferryman if anybody has been watching chaos on netflix i'm not finished it yet

00:20:12.100 but it's very good it's like a reimagining of greek mythology i think i sent you a trailer

00:20:17.840 for it jeff goldblum plays zeus oh yeah so good so if you're looking for something to binge easy

00:20:23.560 to binge nothing too like high stakes or anything like that yeah it's good and jeff goldblum is

00:20:30.540 delightful in it like he is in everything it's just a delightful man yes most of the greek

00:20:37.060 figures are in chaos but karun is the ferryman and they have an actual ferry like that you know

00:20:46.520 you could drive your car down because it's like a modern reimagining and he's just like a guy

00:20:52.640 he's just a guy he's on the ferry like he's not like the you know cloaked figure that you always

00:20:57.780 see and he's like you know with the narrowed hands yes and all of the the imagery that you

00:21:03.540 usually see so i was drawn to karen karen is the son of erebus the god of darkness and nix

00:21:12.400 the goddess of night and he has the job of ferrying souls across the rivers sticks and

00:21:19.280 aceron but only for souls who have received proper burial rights and that means payment

00:21:26.300 was required for the journey which is very classist yeah seriously yeah uh souls who

00:21:32.040 couldn't pay were left to wander the riverbanks for a hundred years which is a plot point in chaos

00:21:37.340 and it's quite sad because like what if your family's just very poor they're not going to

00:21:41.420 bury a coin with you and it means that they could buy dinner right so me and just because you're

00:21:47.140 poor doesn't mean you're a bad person exactly but that's like it seemed to equate like wealth with

00:21:53.800 morality which is interesting because we do the exact opposite now we're like billionaires let

00:21:59.620 them all go to the bottom of the ocean it's like we do and we don't yeah true because it depends

00:22:06.080 what they're famous for i guess or what they're rich for well yeah and there's so many uh

00:22:11.000 people who are like standing on the side of the road asking for money and stuff like that and

00:22:16.200 people are like well they're probably an addict and they probably screwed all these people over

00:22:20.460 and they probably did this and they probably did that and it's like but what if they didn't oh yes

00:22:24.860 that's true sorry i was thinking the other end of the spectrum where like people sort of you know

00:22:29.060 the way you have all those elon musk fanboys and they're like oh no but like he worked for that

00:22:34.040 money like when yeah he actually never did but that's interesting yeah like the people who assume

00:22:43.100 that like you something you must have done something pretty bad in your life to end up on

00:22:47.320 the streets when or even reality is we're closer to that than billionaires right or even if you're

00:22:53.620 just somebody who lives in like a one-bedroom apartment and you're working three jobs it's like

00:22:59.560 well you probably didn't go to college you probably did all these things wrong you probably

00:23:05.160 spent your money on wisely all that kind of stuff when it's like or maybe you just didn't have a leg

00:23:10.100 up exactly yeah like you started everybody else started at the starting line and you started like

00:23:18.400 10 feet back right it's the unfortunately the way it works yeah and i will fight people on that

00:23:25.020 the american dream is a lie let's dismantle the whole thing it is and if you watch 90 day fiance

00:23:31.780 like we do it's crazy to watch all these people they're like they're like i i thought it was like

00:23:36.820 easy to get a job here i thought you made a lot of money it's like no like what's nuts is like you

00:23:42.640 see like i could see like american jobs like say my counterpart in the u.s and it would seem like

00:23:48.340 they make basically triple the amount of money that I do at my job but like what it gets you

00:23:55.940 is very different you know what I mean yeah you guys have so many other expenses that you have

00:24:02.180 to worry about right right and like we we pay more tax obviously but like we get back a lot

00:24:09.040 a lot more from our tax not always like and you have health care yeah like I was thinking like

00:24:15.600 we don't our health care isn't free in ireland but like very fortunate that like we took you

00:24:21.020 into a and e he went there he got an x-ray aka the er for those in the u.s yeah oh they actually

00:24:28.940 changed the name to emergency department i'm like what was wrong with accident and emergency anyway

00:24:33.120 yeah took him there he got an x-ray he got some medication he got a sling and he was sent home

00:24:41.980 and we just checked because there's a fee you have to pay yeah and we checked on the way out

00:24:47.480 and they were like oh we'll send you a bill for 100 euro that's it oh my goodness like there's

00:24:53.520 still people who complain about that here but i'm like do you know what the alternative is 0.95

00:24:56.840 yeah you can't even walk because americans know fucking emergency room for a hundred dollars 0.94

00:25:01.940 yeah like i was i was just telling somebody about how my dad had to have emergency surgery 0.98

00:25:09.620 probably like 10 years ago

00:25:11.720 I'm not gonna dive into all that stuff

00:25:14.060 it's his personal business

00:25:15.360 nothing big

00:25:17.260 but he was in the hospital

00:25:20.380 for like 2 or 3 days

00:25:22.060 and he got a bill for like $100,000

00:25:24.500 Jesus Christ

00:25:26.400 and it's just like

00:25:27.760 that's nice, do you think people actually

00:25:30.160 are ever able to pay this back?

00:25:32.400 it's disgusting, it just is

00:25:34.060 like it's not fair

00:25:34.820 but anyway

00:25:36.560 we're we're still in greece they i don't know if they have socialized health care

00:25:43.380 i assume so because they're in the eu anyway um yeah it's like everybody except for us

00:25:50.680 um so carun has been described in many ways from a poor fisherman or a grumpy old man

00:26:00.500 to a foul-smelling ogre as he was described in virgil's inniate in dante's inferno he is

00:26:07.220 betrayed as an old man with burning eyes threatening the souls with his oar they're

00:26:13.000 already dead man what are you threatening them with an oar for just leave them alone the most

00:26:19.000 famous myth depicting charoon is that of orpheus and eurydice um and chaos is actually focuses on

00:26:26.400 their story but it changes a lot. In this story Orpheus the legendary musician descends into the

00:26:32.600 underworld to retrieve his wife Eurydice who had died from a snake bite. His music was so powerful

00:26:38.540 that it softened the hearts of Hades and Persephone who agreed to let Eurydice return with Orpheus

00:26:43.580 to the land of the living on one condition. Orpheus must not look back at her until they

00:26:49.200 had both reached the upper world. To reach the underworld Orpheus had to cross the river Styx

00:26:54.120 which separated the world of the living from the dead.

00:26:57.260 Carun, the grim

00:26:58.180 ferryman

00:26:58.960 with his wings and his sparkly shoes

00:27:04.460 and a little tutu

00:27:05.560 appears in this myth as the one who

00:27:07.860 ferries souls across the sticks for a fee

00:27:10.160 the coin placed in the mouth of the

00:27:12.220 deceased at burial.

00:27:13.900 In Orpheus' case, his enchanting music

00:27:16.220 compelled Carun to ferry him

00:27:18.300 across without payment.

00:27:19.960 So, Carun is a patron of the arts.

00:27:22.480 Snaps.

00:27:23.040 another myth that heavily features him is heracles or you might know him as hercules

00:27:28.520 12 labor the 12 labors were a series of nearly impossible tasks he was forced to undertake as

00:27:35.260 punishment for killing his wife and children in a fit of madness they left that out of the disney

00:27:40.960 film for real i thought he was a good guy the madness was actually caused by hera because we

00:27:48.020 can't have a man not shift the blame onto a woman yeah seriously hera was his jealous stepmother

00:27:53.320 so wife of zeus at the time so one of the tasks in his 12 labors is that he had to bring cerberus

00:28:00.280 the three-headed guard dog of the underworld to the surface like what a thing to have to do

00:28:05.420 it's like i'm gonna bring this hellhound back up here yeah no big deal in order to you got this

00:28:10.540 right yeah you got this just uh bring some bacon his collar um don't use a choke collar he doesn't 0.50

00:28:17.260 like that in order to accomplish this heracles had to descend to the underworld and like all

00:28:23.720 souls he needed carun's assistance across the river sticks however carun traditionally only

00:28:29.140 ferries the dead and heracles being very much alive posed a problem initially carun refused

00:28:35.120 to carry him across but heracles known for his immense strength and courage intimidated carun 0.98

00:28:40.680 into transporting him to the other side so he's like bitch he just held up his fist and he was 0.99

00:28:46.820 like bitch if you don't as a result of helping heracles carolyn was later punished by hades 0.98

00:28:53.600 which seems a bit mean he was threatened it's not his fault showing the strictness of the 0.97

00:28:59.440 underworld's rules regarding life and death but it's like i feel like heracles gets other people

00:29:04.980 in trouble a lot he's like i didn't do it i didn't it was them though carolyn is often imagined as

00:29:12.880 the one who transports the souls to the underworld the true psychopomp in greek mythology was hermes

00:29:19.540 which i did not know hermes whose name comes from the word herma which are stones that mark

00:29:25.620 boundaries was the god who guided souls across all boundaries including life and death so he

00:29:30.980 could bring you places he could um just pop from one place the other would have been a really good

00:29:37.800 friend to have because you're like i don't want to take the bus i always thought he was just like

00:29:41.440 a messenger boy yeah so he's like the herald of the gods um we'll look into like some of his

00:29:48.820 symbolism and stuff like that but yeah he's always just depicted as a little guy with like 0.99

00:29:52.920 little um wingy sandals yeah and a stupid hat 1.00

00:29:57.700 hermes i'm sorry your hat is stupid it's so stupid and also that company are terrible they 1.00

00:30:07.880 always lose my parcels anyway um do you guys have herbies in the UK we don't but it's really funny 0.99

00:30:15.540 because I remember thinking it was because you and some of the people in the chat were like talking

00:30:21.500 about it and I thought you were talking about I think it's Hermes like it's like a luxury

00:30:27.420 oh yeah they who make Birkins yeah yeah Birkins like the crow bags we were just talking about

00:30:32.780 I remember being very confused I was like what is happening why is like this fancy brand losing

00:30:42.620 packages oh my god you'd be devastated if Hermes lost a package because they're like

00:30:49.100 60 grand or something yeah bags so it was funny when I figured out that's not that you just

00:30:56.320 silently figured all of this I'm like oh it's a courier I was like I'm gonna end up sounding 0.92

00:31:02.440 like the stupid american like i always do so i'm just gonna go to google 0.67

00:31:06.200 hermes is also the god of merchants thieves and travelers he has multiple jobs he's a true 1.00

00:31:14.640 millennial his side hustle yeah he's got a side hustle he can't just be the like psychopop of

00:31:22.620 death he has to you know deliver stuff he's literally the original postmates guy yeah i

00:31:30.040 was gonna say or um deliveroo if you're here if you're in uk and ireland he's original deliveroo

00:31:36.780 guy he's like i have my nine to five job i have my bartending job and i have my postmates job

00:31:42.720 yeah and then he does comedy at the weekends or something um just trying to make it um he is

00:31:49.900 represented by various symbols each highlighting a different aspect of his divine roles and

00:31:54.380 attributes he carries a staff called the caduceus and it's entwined with two serpents and topped

00:32:01.180 with wings symbolizing his role as herald and messenger i'm gonna name my kid caduceus

00:32:07.400 caduceus yeah i feel like isn't that a medical thing don't you often see that yes yeah you see

00:32:14.740 it on hospitals and stuff yeah but i feel like i haven't seen it like it it feels like it used to

00:32:20.520 be a thing and it's not anymore yeah yeah like they don't do it now it's the efficient official

00:32:27.540 insignia of the united states medical corps oh you navy pharmacy division and public health service

00:32:33.760 yeah why is it wait wait the modern use of the caduceus is a symbol of medicine

00:32:39.060 as a symbol of medicine became established in the united states in the late 19th and early 20th

00:32:45.320 century as a result of well-documented mistakes and misunderstandings of symbology and 0.61

00:32:50.380 classical culture oh so there's no it's it's like a bad thing that they it's like they fucked it up 0.68

00:32:57.540 yeah because i was like what does hermes have to do with this that is really fucking funny 0.58

00:33:01.900 that's probably why it's so funny like fading away and i don't feel like i see it that often

00:33:06.600 anymore yeah they're like oh cover this because i was like that is so funny yeah like it should

00:33:14.640 be like hippocrates i guess isn't it isn't the hippocratic oath yes it's not hippos anyway

00:33:19.480 it's not hypocrites either yeah that's what i always think of when people say the hippocratic 0.95

00:33:25.840 oath i'm like hippo hypocrite oath yeah which is not a good thing i don't think so his um 0.99

00:33:33.920 dorky little sandals his fairy man's sandals 0.97

00:33:37.900 known as telaria which actually is a beautiful child's name it sounds telaria or telaria it

00:33:46.780 sounds too close to malaria for me it does yeah but it's like you know the way you always see

00:33:51.200 those posts it's like what would you name your kid if it didn't have a terrible like connotation

00:33:55.400 and somebody was like candida which is like thrush yeah yeah chlamydia yeah it's like yeah

00:34:04.680 beautiful name but you can't use it so his dark little sandals endowed him with the ability to

00:34:12.820 move swiftly between the words of gods mortals and the underworld i have definitely seen some

00:34:18.300 sort of reimagining of those sandals as like high top sneakers and i don't know what it's from i'm

00:34:24.060 gonna say probably percy jackson or something like that yeah i don't i don't know it's definitely

00:34:29.120 it's ringing a bell here if anybody knows message me was it because was it like a special release

00:34:36.160 when the movie hercules came out no i feel like it was in something like it was there was like a

00:34:41.320 hermes was like a young guy and he had like wings on his sneakers i feel like it's something that

00:34:47.740 would be too specific to google so if anybody knows let me know too specific to google i feel

00:34:53.240 like that's where google thrives but sometimes when there's something that like you remember

00:34:56.680 and they're just like no here is all of the shoes with wings that we have ever known yeah i guess

00:35:03.300 his dorky little helmet is often called i sorry this is actually i'm sorry to any greek people

00:35:09.420 who are very proud of this this is just me making fun of him he's not real unless he is real then

00:35:15.000 help me go on holiday i would like to go somewhere nice and warm okay so his helmet was called a

00:35:21.820 potassos and it symbolizes his speed and ability to travel great distances in the blink of an eye

00:35:27.840 he is often depicted with a tortoise it represents his inventiveness because he is credited with

00:35:35.700 inventing the musical instrument

00:35:37.800 the lyre and he 0.98

00:35:38.940 L-Y-R-E and he carved it out of

00:35:41.780 a tortoise shell yeah I spelled that

00:35:43.720 because I know you'd be like the what

00:35:44.900 the lyre I know what it is thank you

00:35:48.040 one of his symbols is the rooster

00:35:51.400 because it is a symbol of a new day

00:35:53.800 and it represents

00:35:55.640 because roosters herald in a new day

00:35:57.700 Hermes was the herald of the gods

00:35:59.720 so he'd go around like spreading

00:36:01.840 his messages and gossip

00:36:03.640 and running his mouth

00:36:05.220 i don't know why i have beef with hermes for some reason yeah you seem like you just don't

00:36:10.640 like him and his funny shoes yeah i don't know why is it the shoes i wanted to pick a myth that

00:36:16.580 has hermes pretty heavily involved in it so i chose the myth of sisyphus

00:36:21.800 in the ancient city of aphira there lived a man named sisyphus

00:36:30.300 famed for his unmatched wit and cunning.

00:36:33.500 His brilliance was whispered throughout the lands,

00:36:36.140 but his craftiness, like a double-edged sword,

00:36:39.180 led him to tangle with the gods themselves.

00:36:43.520 Sisyphus first earned his reputation

00:36:45.660 when he caught the wily thief Autolichus,

00:36:49.500 whose trickery was a gift from Hermes, the god of thieves.

00:36:53.460 To outsmart him, Sisyphus marked the hooves of his cattle,

00:36:57.780 exposing the culprit. In an act of vengeance, Sisyphus seduced Autolichus' wife, Anticlea.

00:37:06.320 Some say that from their union came the legendary Odysseus, though Anticlea married Laertes,

00:37:12.720 leaving the truth of the child's paternity cloaked in mystery. This was only the beginning

00:37:18.600 of Sisyphus' defiance. One fateful day, Sisyphus beheld the mighty river god

00:37:26.620 Esopus in despair, searching for his daughter Aegina, who had been taken by none other than

00:37:32.840 Zeus. Seeing an opportunity to bargain with the heavens, Sisyphus revealed Aegina's whereabouts,

00:37:40.220 in exchange for a spring to flow eternally on the Corinthian Acropolis. Furious at this betrayal,

00:37:48.040 Zeus summoned death himself, Thanatos, to claim Sisyphus and drag him to Tartarus.

00:37:54.180 But the mortal was cleverer than the gods anticipated.

00:38:00.320 When Thanatos appeared with his cold chains, Sisyphus, feigning curiosity, asked how they worked.

00:38:09.260 Thanatos, in his vanity, obliged, and in that moment, Sisyphus bound death in his own chains.

00:38:18.400 The world above was thrown into chaos.

00:38:22.060 No one could die. Battles were fought endlessly.

00:38:26.220 The sick and elderly lingered in agonising half-lives and sacrifices to the gods failed.

00:38:34.100 Eres, the god of war, enraged by the loss of his battlefield glory, 0.97

00:38:39.400 stormed into Tartarus, freed Thanatos and delivered Sisyphus to his doom.

00:38:44.320 yet even death was not a cage strong enough to hold the king of aphira before he passed

00:38:53.240 sisyphus cunningly instructed his wife to leave his body unburied casting it into the public square

00:38:59.900 once his soul reached the shores of the sticks sisyphus feigned indignation before persephone

00:39:07.100 queen of the underworld lamenting his wife's disrespectful act with tears and protest

00:39:14.240 he convinced her to allow him to return to the living world

00:39:17.680 under the guise of correcting his wife's error.

00:39:22.960 Freed from death's grip once more

00:39:25.260 Sisyphus returned to life and scolded his wife for her

00:39:29.320 apparent betrayal. But as the days passed

00:39:33.660 the god Hermes, ever watchful, grew impatient.

00:39:38.400 He descended from Olympus, his golden sandals whispering

00:39:41.560 against the earth and found Sisyphus reveling in the world of the living. Hermes seized him

00:39:48.320 and with a firm but silent hand dragged him back to the underworld where he could cheat death no

00:39:53.560 longer. For this repeated insolence, Zeus sentenced Sisyphus to an eternal punishment.

00:40:02.900 Deep in Tartarus, Sisyphus was condemned to roll a heavy boulder up a steep hill.

00:40:08.740 Each time he neared the summit, the boulder would slip from his grasp and tumble back down to the foot of the hill,

00:40:15.400 forcing Sisyphus to begin his toil anew.

00:40:19.100 His cleverness, once his greatest strength, now became the root of his everlasting torment.

00:40:27.900 And so, day after day, beneath the watchful eyes of Thanatos and Hades,

00:40:33.920 Sisyphus laboured endlessly, a symbol of fruitless effort.

00:40:38.720 His punishment became a warning to all mortals.

00:40:42.420 Even the cleverest among men could not outwit the gods forever.

00:40:46.620 And in the depths of the underworld, where souls wander like forgotten whispers,

00:40:51.320 Sisyphus still pushes his boulder trapped in a Sisyphean task that has no end.

00:41:03.180 so yeah Hermes was like he's good at dragging people from where they were supposed to be so

00:41:09.120 yeah he goes like into the underworld and he's like stop tricking Persephone she just got here

00:41:14.820 it's not her fault she was kidnapped yeah so uh Thanatos and Hades had beef with Sisyphus after

00:41:24.420 that but um it just shows yeah Hermes always like basically did their bidding and he was the one

00:41:30.620 made sure people got to where they were supposed to be um hermes also shows up in the final book

00:41:38.060 of the odyssey um and he is shown rising the souls of the dead and leading them

00:41:43.360 gibbering past the streams of oceanos and into hades so he's like literally like the

00:41:49.040 yeah what does that mean so he's like they're like just talking like okay like they're not

00:41:55.340 making sense ew now selenian hermes called away the suitor's ghosts holding firm in his hand the

00:42:02.960 wand of fine pure gold that enchants the eyes of men whenever hermes wants or wakes us up from

00:42:09.000 sleep with a wave of this he stirred and led them on and the ghosts trailed after with high thin

00:42:15.620 cries as bats cry in the depth of a dark haunted cavern shrilling flittering wild when one drops

00:42:23.700 from the chain slipped from the rock face while the rest clinged tight so with their high thin

00:42:30.040 cries the ghosts flocked now and hermes led them on and down the dank moldering paths and past the

00:42:37.580 ocean streams they went and past the white rock and the sun's western gates and past the land of

00:42:43.780 dreams and they soon reached the fields of asphodel where the dead the burnt out wraiths of mortals

00:42:49.700 make their home isn't that like a a crazy like visual yeah like him just leading an army of the 0.51

00:42:56.700 dead into hades like the pied piper and they're all just like brain dead just like yeah like

00:43:02.460 zombies yeah yeah it's cute when my daughter does it yeah she has her own little language and it's

00:43:10.580 so precious because she'll just be like looking at you like you should know what she's saying

00:43:14.200 she's like and i'm like yeah she's like other people understand you when you talk yeah why

00:43:21.900 don't you understand me her favorite word though is apple she can let you know when she wants an

00:43:28.400 apple she she knows what she wants yeah i respect that and she's food motivated i also respect that

00:43:35.180 yeah the other day she like went to the um our kitchen is blocked off with a gate because there's

00:43:41.480 just like the dog food is in there and there's just too much stuff in there where it's like

00:43:45.160 just don't let her in yeah and she like went to the gate and she was pointing right at where like

00:43:50.300 the apples are on the counter she's like apple apple apple and i'm like okay i'll get you an

00:43:55.900 apple she's like i'm saying it yeah hello you tried for so long to get me to talk come on yeah

00:44:02.080 and her other favorite word is help oh she's a help help

00:44:08.860 she's precious

00:44:12.220 we then travel to the celtic

00:44:14.840 um nations

00:44:17.240 your people

00:44:18.160 my people 0.89

00:44:18.980 there are two psychopomps

00:44:20.780 i didn't want to go into the morrigan again 1.00

00:44:22.360 because she's technically a goddess of death

00:44:24.220 um 0.98

00:44:25.100 even though she does do a lot of 1.00

00:44:27.280 the same sort of things that the 0.94

00:44:28.780 valkyries do

00:44:30.000 so

00:44:30.940 um

00:44:32.060 but we love her

00:44:32.720 and we've already covered her

00:44:33.880 but we love her

00:44:34.680 yeah

00:44:35.080 she's our forever girl 0.99

00:44:36.420 shout out to the morrigan 0.97

00:44:37.540 um

00:44:38.240 But we have another Celtic goddess, Epona, who Emily has mentioned, I think, briefly before.

00:44:44.680 She is the Celtic goddess associated with horses and fertility.

00:44:48.780 She also embodies the characteristics of a psychopomp because she guides souls in their transition from life to the afterlife. 0.98

00:44:56.260 She is revered for her protective nature.

00:44:59.080 She is often linked to the symbolism of horses, which serve as powerful facilitators of movement and transformation,

00:45:05.140 which that's all the aspects

00:45:07.600 of psychopombs 0.94

00:45:08.440 in various myths she is depicted

00:45:11.340 leading spirits to the other world

00:45:13.180 ensuring their safe passage and

00:45:15.360 providing comfort during their journey

00:45:17.060 so I feel like I would like to be greeted by

00:45:19.380 Epona and brought into the afterlife

00:45:21.360 she seems like the nurturing

00:45:22.740 she's like who you would want to meet 1.00

00:45:25.400 not fucking old ogre man 0.99

00:45:27.600 Karun there 1.00

00:45:28.700 or Hermes, darky Hermes 0.99

00:45:30.880 here comes the Hermes hate 1.00

00:45:33.340 okay her worship which included rituals aimed at invoking her blessings reflects the belief

00:45:41.660 that she nurtures not only life but also the cyclical nature of existence accompanying both

00:45:46.800 birth and death as a guardian of the deceased epona's dual role as a goddess of fertility

00:45:52.160 and as a psychopomp highlights the interconnectedness of life and death in celtic spirituality

00:45:58.140 so she's one of those bookend deities

00:46:00.720 she's there with you the whole time

00:46:03.260 she's there

00:46:05.040 when you enter her life, she's there when you leave it

00:46:07.140 and she'll make sure you have some nice horses

00:46:09.000 while you're here

00:46:09.560 what else could she want?

00:46:12.480 one would always like a nice horse

00:46:14.000 for Welsh people 1.00

00:46:17.080 there is

00:46:18.820 the Celtic figure

00:46:20.760 Gwyn Athnuth

00:46:22.160 sort of like Odin and we did cover

00:46:24.980 the wild hunt in one of our

00:46:27.240 christmassy episodes before gwyn apnout was the leader of the wild hunt in wales he's a spectral

00:46:33.780 figure who rides out through the cold winter nights on horseback leading a pack of ghostly

00:46:38.880 hounds known as the coon anoon his hounds this may ring a bell are said to be white coated with

00:46:44.120 red ears i'm just picturing beagles which makes it less scary my beagles

00:46:52.860 like if anything's gonna lead like the wild hounds like beagles oh my gosh no offense to 0.98

00:47:00.320 beagle lovers your dogs are fucking annoying you're supposed to be able to hear the baying 0.96

00:47:05.020 of his hounds and that's one of the omens of death so i'm thinking it's beagles i mean it 0.99

00:47:10.460 really could be yeah uh his favorite beagle is dormuk who was a red-nosed hound which i feel

00:47:18.680 like they just stole this for rudolph it's like he goes through the sky being pulled along and one

00:47:25.180 of them has a red nose and it's the favorite that's really funny is going up north santa

00:47:29.920 welsh people let me know and is the lead beagle rudolph why aren't you guys like raising more of

00:47:36.440 a stink about this like one time i put up a tiktok about the welsh word hraith and i did not say that

00:47:43.720 it was a welsh word and people were up in arms i'm like i'm so sorry right what were they 0.72

00:47:48.600 up in arms about it wasn't that i didn't say it was a welsh word it's that it's so great basically

00:47:54.280 means homesickness or longing for your home or like the comfort of home and all of that but it

00:48:01.080 is supposed to specifically refer to wales you can only feel that way about wales okay

00:48:05.960 apparently sorry wales of all the things to be very hyper specific yeah oh no sorry you can't

00:48:14.440 feel that because your home is not wales yeah you're not welsh you don't know what that means

00:48:19.340 but i i get where they're coming from like it was originally written specifically about somebody

00:48:24.680 missing wales yeah and it was that feeling but then it's sort of been co-opted to mean like a

00:48:29.900 greater sense of homesickness yeah um so yeah they're they're not happy about it welsh people

00:48:35.060 don't share the welsh have been angered gwyn chases the souls of the dead and in welsh folklore

00:48:43.320 as I said to hear the baying of his hounds was a dreadful omen

00:48:46.500 a sign that death was near for someone in the family

00:48:49.400 kind of banshee-ish. Some traditions

00:48:52.300 speak of his chief huntsman Iolo Aphew

00:48:55.500 who every Halloween could be found 1.00

00:48:58.100 cheering the Cun Anun as they raced over the mountain 1.00

00:49:01.420 of Caderidrus. Each year on Baltina 1.00

00:49:04.380 Gwyn battles Guder Ap Grydwal 0.83

00:49:06.980 I really hope I'm saying that right. For the hand of 0.99

00:49:09.980 Creslad who along with some tales may even be his sister

00:49:13.300 because it wouldn't be a myth if there wasn't some random incest.

00:49:17.400 His presence also appears in Arthurian legend

00:49:20.800 where he aids King Arthur in the legendary hunt for the Turk Troith

00:49:25.420 in Killuk and Olwen, which we covered in our Mabon episode last year.

00:49:31.860 In the poem Me Awoom, he helps Gidno Garanhir

00:49:35.280 and identifies himself as Death.

00:49:37.660 The association made him known in later traditions

00:49:39.920 as the welsh angel of death sometimes called gwyn the hunter he has also been linked then to hern

00:49:46.420 the hunter in other myths his sacred role was to escort newly departed souls from the world of the

00:49:51.460 living to the afterlife a fierce and skilled warrior he is shrouded in mystery forever gathering

00:49:56.760 the souls of fallen british warriors from the battlefield and carrying them to their final rest

00:50:01.840 i was there where the warriors of britain were slain from the east to the north i live on there

00:50:07.480 in the grave i was there when the warriors of britain were slain from the east to the north

00:50:12.180 i live on they are dead so yeah that's him identifying himself like he just lives through

00:50:17.720 every battle and he's the one who is tasked with bringing everyone to the afterlife which is kind

00:50:23.360 of sad it's depressing tragic isn't it it's kind of like the i don't remember if it was like an

00:50:29.700 article i read or what it was but it was a man who had lived to be he was like over a hundred

00:50:35.260 and they were asking him like wow like that's it's so cool it's such an achievement and blah

00:50:41.900 blah blah and he was like it's actually really sad like my friends are dead some of my kids are

00:50:47.900 dead basically everybody's dead and i'm just here it's like yeah that is kind of sad it's like i

00:50:55.600 always say like that one thing i love love apocalypse movies but i do not want to live

00:50:59.920 that much i would not want to outlive like my friends and family yeah it's like if everybody's

00:51:05.560 gone i'm going too yeah i'm in that first wave just bite me and there's also like you know all

00:51:14.920 those like oh they were searching for the eternal life or like they were looking for the holy grail

00:51:20.120 because it had the secret to eternal life why yeah why would you want to live that long yeah

00:51:25.360 it's like it sounds it sounds good if you could keep existing in like the current state that

00:51:30.740 you're in but that's not what it is yeah and people look for eternal life but they don't

00:51:37.560 seem to look for eternal health for sure which is like can you imagine being like 150 years old

00:51:43.620 you would not be good doing good bro looking like the crypt keeper

00:51:47.920 yeah if my lower back is already killing me at 35

00:51:53.260 i don't have long for this word i don't want to be 150 my lower back is killing me

00:52:03.940 it just makes me think of what we do in the shadows 0.96

00:52:08.060 yeah the episode where that old lady is like oh you said you'd turn me into a vampire and she's

00:52:14.320 like but you'd say a vampire like this like 89 year old self that you are now was that the was 0.54

00:52:21.640 that the one that like um nadia was basically terrorizing her from when she was a little girl

00:52:26.220 well because the old lady had taken hara like had something of hers yeah it's so funny it's

00:52:35.740 just so funny can you imagine like it just just showing up in this little girl's room at night

00:52:39.780 just to terrify her oh i love that show so much and it's also a good halloween tradition of ours

00:52:46.480 we always have to mention it i think we mention it in most episodes anyway don't think it always

00:52:51.120 yeah it's been a while though gwyn is also sort of seen as the welsh version or he's identified

00:53:00.300 with finn mccull because that's like the irish legendary hero both names mean white fair or

00:53:09.180 blessed both are leaders of a wild hunt so finn was the leader of the faena i'll do like a episode

00:53:16.160 on Finn McCool like properly because

00:53:17.920 I feel like I've talked around him

00:53:20.180 a little bit and Coo Cullen and stuff

00:53:22.220 but he needs a dedicated

00:53:24.200 proper episode. Both of them battle

00:53:26.260 for the daughter of the king. Both have

00:53:28.220 spectral hounds and Gwyn

00:53:30.240 another name for Gwyn's hounds are

00:53:32.080 the Gabriel hounds.

00:53:33.880 We love Norse mythology so

00:53:35.860 we have to talk about the Valkyries.

00:53:39.180 Aren't they?

00:53:39.640 Is it pronounced Valkyries?

00:53:41.060 See I don't know. I did look this up. I was like to Ewan

00:53:43.860 is it Valkyries or Valkyries?

00:53:46.160 and he was like i would say valkyrie and i was like right and then i looked up how swedish and

00:53:51.060 icelandic people say and they seem to say valkyrie okay so i don't know i'm probably going to switch

00:53:55.320 between both like data and data just in case one of them's got to be right so one of them's got to

00:54:01.960 be right yeah so as we talked about in our yule one of our yule episodes there's a few callbacks 0.99

00:54:07.440 in this one in norse mythology the valkyries were beautiful young women who served both as

00:54:13.200 odin's messengers and as escorts to the souls of warriors killed in battle in fact their very name 0.51

00:54:19.760 means choosers of the slain during battle they would ride upon winged horses and surveying the

00:54:26.400 field select brave warriors to die then they would transport these that's another like i feel like

00:54:32.740 that visual i have not seen that in a movie or anything but like that would just look so cool 1.00

00:54:37.180 can you imagine like these beautiful women just like on horses like flying over a battlefield just 1.00

00:54:42.180 like pointing 1.00

00:54:43.800 that would be so cool

00:54:46.240 that one

00:54:47.580 he's cute 0.97

00:54:48.920 save him

00:54:51.020 he's hot 1.00

00:54:51.560 let that one go 0.96

00:54:57.000 he groped me 0.99

00:54:58.560 in fact torture that one 0.99

00:55:02.980 yeah 0.96

00:55:04.120 make it slow

00:55:05.460 they would then transport the souls to Valhalla

00:55:08.840 Odin's Hall

00:55:10.960 The Valkyrie's role in ferrying the dead can be seen in stories and poems such as

00:55:16.000 Helgar Vida Hoodingspana, The Lay of Helgi Hoodingsbane,

00:55:20.600 where they are depicted choosing and guiding fallen heroes. 0.91

00:55:25.060 Long ago, in a time when gods and men mingled and destiny was woven by the hands of the Nornir,

00:55:31.720 a boy was born to Borghildr and Sigmundr.

00:55:36.440 His birth was a moment of great promise, marked by signs from the heavens and the blessings of the Nornir, who spun the threads of his fate.

00:55:46.340 Even the ravens, messengers of the gods, took joy in the newborn's arrival, knowing that his child, who stood in armour on his first day of life, was destined for greatness.

00:55:58.360 He was named Helgi, a descendant of Day, and it was said that he would bring fortune to his people.

00:56:05.440 As Helgi grew, his strength and courage became legendary.

00:56:13.700 Before long, he slew the cruel king Hundinger, earning the name Hundingsbane.

00:56:20.240 Hundinger's sons demanded vengeance, but Helgi refused them any recompense,

00:56:26.960 slaying all four brothers in battle.

00:56:28.860 it was then that helgi first laid eyes on sigrun a radiant valkyrie who appeared to him on the

00:56:37.360 battlefield her eyes gleaming with the wisdom of the gods though promised to another a king

00:56:45.380 named hoth brother whom she scorned as little more than a kitten sigrun was drawn to helgi's

00:56:51.620 strength and valor she invited him to fight for her hand and helgi filled with resolve

00:56:57.800 gathered his warriors and set sail. Helgi and his men braved the fierce seas aided by the Valkyries

00:57:06.800 who watched over them. At last they arrived at the shores of Hothbrother's kingdom where a mighty

00:57:13.400 battle ensued. Helgi fought with unmatched skill protected by the Valkyries and in the end he slew

00:57:21.700 Hothbrother. Sigrun declared him the victor, promising him both her hand and the lands of 0.93

00:57:28.460 her former betrothed. The Valkyries themselves seemed to smile upon the union, for it was clear

00:57:35.500 that Helgi and Sigrun's fates had long been intertwined. Their love was forged in battle

00:57:42.240 and sealed by the gods, their destinies as radiant as the day Helgi was born.

00:57:51.700 now let's not go on dates you've got to fight this guy for me

00:58:00.400 it's like scott pilgrim don't take me out to dinner i have something else i need you to do

00:58:05.220 yeah i need you to like knock lumps out of this fella and that's how you win a volcano

00:58:11.200 you fight another guy for him in battle for her beautiful isn't it beautiful what a what a haunting

00:58:19.840 love story for the ages it's like we're gonna beat these guys and fight them on a field it's

00:58:26.720 gonna be great and then you and i can get married um and then we move over to islam for our next

00:58:34.460 psychopump asrael is the islamic angel of death there's some amazing like folklore around asrael 0.58

00:58:43.160 or like symbolism around him he's the islamic angel of death who sometimes appears as a horrifying 0.80

00:58:48.440 spirit with eyes and tongues

00:58:50.380 covering his entire body.

00:58:52.380 So we have a first for Rhode and Pine.

00:58:54.700 We have our first biblically accurate

00:58:56.420 angel. Oh my god!

00:58:58.440 Yay!

00:59:00.360 I feel like we're always like sharing memes

00:59:02.400 and making jokes about biblically accurate

00:59:04.280 angels but this is our first actual one.

00:59:07.600 So yes

00:59:08.520 eyes and tongues covering his entire body.

00:59:11.520 Asriel maintains

00:59:12.380 a massive ledger in which

00:59:14.140 he is responsible for separating souls

00:59:16.300 from their bodies. He is one of

00:59:18.420 the four archangels and serves 1.00

00:59:20.540 as the counterpart to the Judeo-Christian

00:59:22.600 angel of death.

00:59:24.540 Asriel is said to be of

00:59:26.220 immense cosmic size

00:59:27.880 with 4,000 wings and as many eyes

00:59:30.460 and tongues as there are living people.

00:59:32.400 That's intense.

00:59:33.920 That cosmic size line just

00:59:35.320 reminds me of like Aladdin. Phenomenal

00:59:38.240 cosmic power. Like the genie

00:59:40.300 keeps saying it. Eelty bitty living space.

00:59:43.540 He stands

00:59:44.500 with one foot in the heavens and the

00:59:46.360 other on the razor sharp bridge that divides paradise from hell yikes yes isn't this metal 0.63

00:59:52.480 as fuck it is yeah it'd be a good band name i'm sure it is a band name probably also the first

00:59:58.460 thing that like ewan did was look up to see if psychopomps was a band name because he wants to 0.98

01:00:02.440 form a band with our friend danny and he was like oh it's already taken i'm like of course it is

01:00:06.960 you have to like i feel like you have to come up with like like psychopomps at the graveyard or

01:00:12.520 something like that you know what i mean where it's like you can include the word yeah like i

01:00:17.080 think i don't know if i if we said this would be a good name or if this was a name that we saw but

01:00:22.520 it was like carun and the psychopomps yeah it's like a sounds like a rockabilly band or a psychobilly

01:00:28.000 band before humanity was created asrael was the only angel brave enough to descend to earth and

01:00:34.420 face iblis the devil in order to gather the materials needed for god to create man

01:00:39.380 for this courageous act

01:00:41.280 he was made the angel of death given a divine

01:00:43.620 register that lists all of mankind

01:00:45.620 the names of the blessed

01:00:47.740 appear circled in light while those 0.95

01:00:49.820 of the damned are marked in darkness 1.00

01:00:51.900 like bad Santa

01:00:53.760 I feel like the movie or

01:00:59.700 I love that movie

01:01:02.540 Grandma are you spry? 0.99

01:01:05.320 it's so stupidly funny 0.99

01:01:06.540 we're also seeing from 0.98

01:01:09.180 this list that uh santa is an amalgamation of psychopops because he's got his beagle and his

01:01:15.500 his naughty list he's got his rudolph beagle

01:01:19.620 okay asriel does not know the exact moment of a person's death until a leaf falls from the tree

01:01:27.440 beneath god's throne bearing the individual's name once that sign is given he has 40 days to

01:01:33.660 separate the body from the soul fulfilling his solemn duty what is up with all the 40 days

01:01:38.980 stuff yeah 40 is a big like biblical biblical 40 7 and 3 yeah it's like the numbers in

01:01:47.000 the bible but i guess the quran in this instance but in islamic tradition man has several ways to

01:01:55.460 delay death by reciting a ritual prayer he stops the angel of death from entering his throat to

01:02:01.260 take his spirit while giving alms the angel cannot grasp him by the hand however when all attempts

01:02:08.260 to delay or exhausted the angel returns with an apple from paradise inscribed with a basmala

01:02:14.100 in the name of god the merciful the compassionate or writes god's name in the person's palm

01:02:19.540 and the spirit must depart for believers the soul is gently drawn out and carried to the seventh

01:02:25.560 heaven in contrast the souls of unbelievers are violently ripped from their bodies and hurled back

01:02:31.480 to earth unable to pass through the gates of heaven well then i love how like convoluted this

01:02:38.140 all is like there's so much involved in like death it's crazy it's so cool i like i love this

01:02:45.880 and also like blanket apology if i got any of this wrong to uh anybody who is muslim

01:02:52.840 or who was raised Muslim

01:02:54.900 blame my source

01:02:56.360 blame the sources

01:02:58.360 and then on to one that I had a lot of trouble

01:03:03.860 finding anything

01:03:05.620 which I have disappointingly little

01:03:08.000 in Japanese mythology

01:03:10.260 the term Shinigami

01:03:11.700 translates to death god or death spirit

01:03:14.480 these beings are tasked

01:03:16.420 with guiding souls to the afterlife

01:03:17.940 and overseeing the process of death

01:03:19.940 Shinigami can take various forms

01:03:22.420 sometimes appearing as skeletal figures other times as ghostly apparitions or even resembling

01:03:29.040 humans. Their portrayal can vary wildly in some stories they are seen as neutral arbiters of

01:03:36.120 death while in others they may take on a more malevolent role. Regardless of their appearance

01:03:41.080 or demeanor Shinigami play a crucial part in the journey from life to the afterlife in Japanese

01:03:46.780 folklore now unfortunately when i was trying to research this literally every source was in

01:03:54.860 japanese and it seemed to be untranslatable for for google so i would love to hear more um if

01:04:01.820 anybody has any book recommendations or anything like that i would love to read more about

01:04:05.920 japanese folklore and especially like shinigami because i kept getting directed to death note

01:04:13.040 that anime i was gonna say i feel like i'm not like huge into anime but modardo had me watch

01:04:18.760 death note and i was like wait i think that was something in that show yeah so um you and i's

01:04:27.660 watched death note as well i believe and um like when i started say i asked him did he know anything

01:04:33.460 else about shinigami and he was like i just literally just know death note um but it seems

01:04:38.720 it seems from what I've gathered that they're not often called Shinigami. Shinigami is like

01:04:44.320 a variety but I think in Death Note they're actually called Shinigami and they sort of

01:04:48.960 gave a name to like the death spirits. Yeah I think that's what that was. It's been a while

01:04:54.260 since we watched it and I as you know I retain like nothing that I watch so. And then second to

01:05:01.060 last we have our little callback to emily's northern lights episode um aurora borealis is

01:05:10.340 a psychopomp for labrador inuits in northeastern canada the aurora borealis is seen as flickering

01:05:18.080 torch lights lit each night by the spirits that live there to show the way for the deceased

01:05:22.260 which is very sweet yeah yes i remember that i have to give like a little side acknowledgement

01:05:30.240 that um a lot in a lot of cultures animals are psychopomps emily's ravens and crows episode

01:05:37.160 dealt with um how in a lot of belief systems ravens and crows slash corvids but not all corvids

01:05:45.580 are tied to the other world and symbols of death or transition transformation so yeah um just wanted

01:05:55.200 to give a little side note because as we know the morrigan can appear as a crow or a raven

01:06:03.060 and there are birds associated with battle and omens and it suggests her role in foretelling

01:06:09.960 death and influencing the fate of warriors in many tales she is seen hovering over battlefields

01:06:15.900 deciding who will live and who will die thus functioning as a guide for souls transitioning 0.99

01:06:20.880 to the afterlife also i just it says that whippoorwills are psychopaths yes that's so cool 0.93

01:06:27.740 my grandparents lived in wisconsin they had whippoorwills around their place and they're

01:06:34.460 like so cool they make like the coolest call yeah it's such a cool name for a bird like it's

01:06:39.540 you know because when i read that i was like i think that's a bird and i like literally had to

01:06:44.380 google it yeah yeah yeah like my parent or my grandparents would be like yeah they sing their

01:06:49.740 name they'd be like whipperwill whipperwill so each night we would like hear them coming out

01:06:56.040 we're like it's the whipperwills yeah they also look really like crazy too have you looked at

01:07:02.340 oh wow yeah they're very just like different looking whipperwills that's like a new one for

01:07:08.200 me i don't know where they is it just america um i don't know it's a good question i feel like

01:07:16.180 they're part of they're within the night jar family yeah night jars night jars are cool

01:07:22.640 because there's like like some of them look like frogs yeah i love animals there's just so much

01:07:29.200 fun fun things about every time every time we watch like david attenborough i'm always like

01:07:35.100 he's always showing me some random animal i've never heard of it's always some something new

01:07:40.600 you're like how do i not know about all these animals yeah so that has been my episode on

01:07:47.340 psychopomps and that concludes season two of rowan and pine oh season two we have done 40 episodes

01:07:56.700 wow look at us yeah everybody said we couldn't i'm just kidding they all said it they all we

01:08:05.200 heard them um and then with our pine cones we actually have 51 episodes currently so we'll have

01:08:10.760 like 54 55 wow stuff like that crazy it's a lot of work it is a lot of work especially for you

01:08:22.020 you're editing all of these episodes doesn't feel like i've done that much we've spaced them out

01:08:28.100 yeah yeah it's true but yeah if you've been here from the start you probably know us in person

01:08:34.020 if you've been here from

01:08:36.160 the last few episodes

01:08:38.600 yeah welcome

01:08:41.480 we're happy that you found us

01:08:43.040 there seems to be new people finding us every day

01:08:45.340 you've all been really sweet

01:08:47.280 you guys are great

01:08:49.320 yeah you guys are great

01:08:51.700 thanks for being kind

01:08:53.260 thanks for listening

01:08:54.520 and we will be back for season 3

01:08:57.900 but we might sprinkle in a few little

01:09:00.220 short episodes here and there

01:09:02.200 just to keep on your radar

01:09:03.500 make sure that you don't forget that we exist

01:09:05.900 right we want to keep you entertained

01:09:08.080 all nine of you that are listening

01:09:10.060 hey it's at least 19 now

01:09:13.660 I was going to say wait

01:09:15.680 do we have like 12 now

01:09:16.960 we can't quite give you a date for season 3 yet

01:09:21.800 but make sure you're following us on everything

01:09:24.180 and we love you

01:09:26.400 and we have lots more to come

01:09:27.840 and we might have a little pivot next season

01:09:32.020 it's nothing too drastic but we're just gonna focus on some things that we have been gradually

01:09:40.080 gravitating towards she says might but we're all saying that 99 sure we have a pivot

01:09:46.920 yeah we do secrets surprises we're still gonna be in the same realm we're not changing genre

01:09:54.480 or anything like that but yeah we're not becoming a true crime podcast no definitely not imagine oh

01:09:59.820 my gosh emily would leave yeah yeah everybody's like i'm gonna start a podcast and it's gonna

01:10:06.960 be true crime i'm like i think we're good the thing that i don't get is when there's people

01:10:13.320 who like they have jobs and that are completely unrelated to true crime and they'll just start

01:10:17.840 like they'll be on like fucking love island or something yeah i'm starting a podcast and it's 0.97

01:10:22.380 true crime like who gives a fuck what do you think about it like john wayne gacy right and can you 0.98

01:10:29.260 tell us anything new because everybody has said it hundreds of thousands of times at this point 0.85

01:10:34.180 exactly thank you to all of our pod moth network mates you guys have been so sweet and welcoming

01:10:41.760 and we're really happy that we found our little group of other spooky pods yeah and keep listening

01:10:47.640 to everybody else while we're gone because there's so much i have so much to catch up on there's some

01:10:52.480 great stuff in there if you dig around um the links to all of the pod moth network podcasts are

01:10:57.320 in our description so go check them out go check them out um and for the last time season two i

01:11:02.900 have been neve and i'm emily and fuck yeah folklore bye everybody happy halloween yeah see you in 0.71

01:11:13.340 probably early spring 2025 yeah in 2025 for sure 2025 bye bye now bye 0.81

01:11:27.320 looking for your next obsession the creators collective podcasts is your gateway to the dark

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Rowan & Pine: A Feminist Folklore & Mythology Podcast - October 31, 2024

Episode Forty： HALLOWEEN Psychopomps - Hermes and his dorky lil' sandals

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