Rowan & Pine: A Feminist Folklore & Mythology Podcast - Episode Twenty-Four： HALLOWEEN Crossroads Folklore - My dog Shart

00:00:00.900 Very quick trigger warning for this episode for mentions of suicide and infanticide.

00:00:07.480 Oh hey there spooky listener. Good news. You still have some time before the episode starts.

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00:01:09.880 that good okay start the intro music all right here we go it's recording everything is fine 0.99

00:01:23.640 do you ever feel like technology is trying to call you stupid yes like always what i was gonna 0.96

00:01:30.400 say that fight i had with um spotify for podcasters earlier i was gonna bring that up because 0.98

00:01:36.880 i like ever since we started doing the podcast stuff it's made me feel comforted knowing that

00:01:43.720 i'm not the only person that struggles severely with passwords oh god yeah and i'm just like oh

00:01:49.340 like every time i'll do like a variation of the passwords that i use and i'll just like change 0.95

00:01:54.160 some letters and stuff into numbers or whatever no it's always like no fuck you we've never heard 0.84

00:01:59.540 of you before you better reset this whole thing i know and i'll like i will have it written down 0.95

00:02:05.040 and i'll use that password it's like it's not the right password i'm like what and then i go to

00:02:08.920 reset the password to the password that wasn't the right one supposedly and then it's like you've

00:02:14.620 already used that one i'm like no but it was like i literally showed i don't know who i was showing

00:02:20.880 it to but i showed my phone to my laptop earlier because i was logged in on my phone and on my

00:02:27.020 laptop on the browser it was telling me i didn't exist and i was like but i'm logged in like what

00:02:33.140 do you mean like showing it it's here look at me oh welcome to rowan and pine welcome to rowan and

00:02:44.760 pine my name is emily my name is nee this is a spooky spooky folklore and mythology podcast

00:02:52.280 a spooky um that was my stomach if you could hear that i could not hear that my stomach just

00:02:59.420 riveted like a frog

00:03:00.660 that was a completely brand new noise for me

00:03:03.740 it's Friday the 13th anything

00:03:07.360 could happen hell yeah

00:03:08.680 well it's not when this

00:03:11.420 comes out but when we're recording

00:03:13.000 it's Friday the 13th yes

00:03:14.840 Emily has a little Friday the 13th

00:03:16.880 kind of treat lined up for you

00:03:19.200 which it will

00:03:21.260 be out by the time yes it'll be

00:03:23.200 out by the time the this episode

00:03:25.300 goes because this is our last episode of the month

00:03:26.900 okay so this is the last one of october yeah we're actually we're cheating a little bit because

00:03:33.800 it probably shouldn't go up until the first of november but we wanted a halloween episode

00:03:39.400 because the first november is the wednesday like our normal wednesday upload yeah but we're

00:03:45.200 uploading a day early because we just love you guys so much and we're capricorns and we like

00:03:49.760 following a very specific pattern

00:03:51.640 and plot.

00:03:53.440 We cannot have a Halloween episode.

00:03:56.560 That's our whole thing.

00:03:59.140 I was

00:03:59.820 telling Nev yesterday about

00:04:01.740 how we make

00:04:03.700 the joke about us being Capricorns

00:04:05.880 so often that I made

00:04:07.780 the joke in therapy and my therapist looked at me

00:04:09.860 and was like, I don't know what that means.

00:04:13.220 I was like, because he's a normal person.

00:04:16.040 Sorry. 0.99

00:04:16.400 also doesn't listen to our podcast so well fuck him yeah i don't listen to his so 0.98

00:04:26.400 if he someday does listen hey he'll discover that hi hi if emily says mean things about me 0.99

00:04:35.380 i don't want to know

00:04:36.080 legally he can't tell you unless i wanted to hurt you which i don't so that's good that is good it

00:04:47.400 would also take you a very long time to get here to hurt me you know i tangent time another tangent

00:04:54.540 we always go on tangents of course um when i used to come visit chicago when i was younger i would

00:05:01.800 always take the bus because it's like eight hours and um there was this one time i was going back to

00:05:09.780 minneapolis from chicago and somebody was on the bus and they kept making phone calls because like

00:05:14.860 someone took their child or something what it was very lots of drama was happening in the seat behind

00:05:20.800 me on these phone calls but this person was like i'm on my way back from chicago right now like 0.98

00:05:28.180 when i get there i'm gonna hunt you down and kill you i'm like they have like seven hours till you

00:05:33.860 get there maybe you don't warn them that far in advance they could get on like a pretty decent 0.99

00:05:38.380 flight in that time yeah they literally be pretty far away yeah they could be seeing you

00:05:46.040 dear god i love that i love secondhand drama where you're just like this doesn't involve me

00:05:54.160 i love it i heard many weird conversations when i was on the bus see you're lucky all i got was

00:06:01.760 people eating egg sandwiches and oranges for some reason on a bus well you weren't on the bus from

00:06:07.740 chicago to minneapolis yeah that's people making life-changing journeys i guess

00:06:13.080 you're in ireland we just get smelly old men with scabby noses trying to sit beside us

00:06:23.120 there's a lot of alcoholics on the books oh scabby noses yeah i was like

00:06:29.420 ew why are people's noses falling off yeah alcoholism

00:06:34.740 terrible they always just smell like old hair old hair do you know what i mean you know when

00:06:42.960 somebody hasn't washed like expired hair oh like really dirty old hair so dirty hair not old hair

00:06:52.340 same thing oh my god if if it was not apparent it is 10 o'clock at night on a friday night here

00:07:00.940 and i am drinking jack daniels so this is gonna be a very interesting episode yeah so buckle up

00:07:07.460 and enjoy the ride hit that like button smash that subscriber button um just smash all the

00:07:15.300 buttons smash all the buttons yeah do it for us yeah we deserve your likes um so i should probably

00:07:22.960 get to what actually the episode is about if you have not looked at your feed and seen what the

00:07:27.740 title of the episode is if you're one of the um i'll just listen to everything people hi i'm like

00:07:33.380 you as well and it's always a nice little surprise when people announce what the episode's about

00:07:37.400 you're like oh i didn't know that yeah we are the same yeah so this episode is going to be

00:07:45.280 about the folklore of crossroads so crossroads not the britney spears movie um which fun fact

00:07:54.840 was directed by shonda rhimes of gray's anatomy fame she's like the creator of gray's anatomy

00:08:01.040 oh wow i'm so sorry if you can hear you in like online gaming in the background

00:08:06.240 i can't but it sounded like he was quacking there for a second anyway oh my gosh crossroads as in

00:08:15.880 liminal spaces as in the meeting of two separate boundaries all of that kind of cool stuff and the

00:08:24.060 folklore entities the traditions associated with it i'm sure there's some things that are like

00:08:29.940 flashing through people's heads already going if you've ever watched supernatural you're probably

00:08:33.800 thinking of crossroads demons because there was like a specific demon that kept showing up um to

00:08:38.780 make deals at the crossroads yeah also i was looking up i was like i want to get a picture

00:08:43.380 of a crossroads demon and snooki was one of them she was like a guest star as a crossroads demon

00:08:50.220 on what on supernatural on supernatural i stopped watching that show in like season

00:08:57.860 13 or something like that so i missed a lot you got further than i did yeah i think i stopped

00:09:06.500 around season nine yeah i should have stopped after season five but you know i it just was like

00:09:13.060 it was good and then i was like okay how many times does one character have to die and come

00:09:21.660 back yeah um i think what eventually made me give up on supernatural and i'm so sorry to all the

00:09:26.540 supernatural fans listening because i know you're probably very defensive about it

00:09:29.720 from what i remember of being in that fandom they all were very defensive about it um they they love

00:09:36.000 it very very much yes um i think what made me give up on supernatural was they were starting

00:09:42.860 another series where or another season where one brother was in trouble and he was keeping it a

00:09:49.840 secret from the other brother and i was like how many times can we do this we can't just do this

00:09:54.080 again please no all of this could be avoided if you two just had a conversation yeah dear god

00:10:00.900 yeah just it just it's so funny because when a really good show ends and you feel like it's too

00:10:06.940 early you're like no it shouldn't be ending yet it's like you go through this like you hate it

00:10:12.740 you don't want it to end but then also at the same time you have to think about the fact that

00:10:18.600 like if it kept going it would just be yeah a mess yeah like there are some shows when you look back

00:10:25.340 on them you're like that was a perfect show and it ended exactly when it should have right like

00:10:30.460 there's that show the leftovers which was justin through isn't it and it was by damon lindelof who

00:10:40.240 was one of the creators of lost and he like famously said that he learned while making lost

00:10:46.100 that a show can go on for too long because it's so successful and when you have an idea for an

00:10:52.960 ending of a show just end the fucking show and that's what he did with the leftovers and it's 0.90

00:10:56.920 like i think it's three seasons and it's just three seasons of perfect television it's just 0.96

00:11:01.280 absolutely like like the last season is the best you know yeah that's how schitt's creek was yeah

00:11:08.760 i need to finish schitt's creek watching it it was like no it can't be ending now but like it

00:11:13.340 was a good ending it was you know they didn't beat it to death i think the parks and rec ending

00:11:19.120 is really good too yeah and then they came back with that odd like final final season yeah that

00:11:25.900 one was weird the one that was like after chris pratt had lost all the weight i think so it did

00:11:32.380 make me laugh though they were like they couldn't just ignore the fact that he'd lost loads of weight

00:11:37.700 and gotten really buffed to be in a marvel movie and it was just like they cut to a scene of him

00:11:42.400 and like adam scott speaking he's like yeah i just gave a beer and i just look like this now

00:11:46.080 i was like that's a really good way of addressing it

00:11:50.180 yeah i don't the only thing i remember about that is it was

00:11:58.140 i don't remember when that season came out it might have been like 2013 or 2014

00:12:04.180 yeah it was 20 and um 2014 i'm gonna say i was in canada anyway my goodness um and it was funny

00:12:12.200 because they were like oh the year is 2016 and the cubs just won the world series and then the

00:12:17.720 cubs who forever were like cursed like they hadn't won a world series in like 100 years

00:12:23.100 they won in 2016 wow which also was funny because when i moved here i moved here in january

00:12:30.860 and baseball doesn't start till the spring and i told medardo i was like if the cubs win

00:12:35.980 the world series this year it means i'm your good luck charm you have to keep me forever

00:12:39.580 and then they did oh which was like a miracle and i was like see see it's all because of you

00:12:46.340 it's because of me but anyway anyway crossroads so crossroads

00:12:53.900 what was the song i'm not a girl not yet a woman crossroad it wasn't that

00:13:01.500 you you will not be familiar with this but uh anybody in the uk and ireland will be familiar

00:13:07.800 with blazing squad who were a british rap group and wow it was all like teenage boys in like

00:13:15.500 hooded parkas um and their big their big song was see you at the crossroads crossroads crossroads

00:13:22.700 i think that was blazing squad i'm sure somebody's very offended on behalf of blazing squad if it

00:13:28.360 wasn't them that's so funny okay but we're gonna get in get into some actual cool music that's

00:13:35.260 associated with Crossroads. I'm going to take you through their folkloric and historical

00:13:40.400 significance. We're going to talk about their relationship to blues music. And then we're

00:13:46.020 going to talk about some entities in particular from the voodoo religion that are associated

00:13:54.180 with Crossroads as well. So Crossroads and their historical significance. Crossroads are, as we

00:14:01.720 know liminal spaces and the significance of liminal spaces are where the boundaries are the

00:14:08.040 most thin at things like windows crossroads places where the veil between the spirit world

00:14:15.740 and our world is the thinnest which is also today when this episode is uploaded halloween

00:14:21.960 right i was gonna say tis the season is the season because of liminality magic actually

00:14:27.780 has more power it occurs at these boundary times where two opposing ideals meet sunset is another

00:14:35.220 example of a liminal time because it's when the day turns into night right another aspect of this

00:14:41.400 liminality or being between things is crossroads represent the need for a choice because if you're

00:14:47.960 a traveler you have to know which road you're going to take right so it's a good representation

00:14:53.060 of you making a choice or making a plan or making a bargain and you choosing which direction your

00:14:59.440 life is going to take so that's why crossroads have been sort of classically this place of huge

00:15:05.680 choices and huge decisions and asking for help or invoking certain entities or things like that

00:15:13.320 yeah they're not always a positive thing and they haven't always a positive thing just a few

00:15:18.320 aspects or places where crossroads have popped up throughout history so in ireland as i always

00:15:25.020 start here in the 1700s when dancing was prohibited by the english the irish would meet on country

00:15:31.360 crossroads and they would bring food drink and musical instruments keeping an eye out for the

00:15:37.100 approaching soldiers from all sides as they dance their country dances because crossroads were

00:15:41.480 typically not owned by anybody like it wasn't on anybody's land so they weren't going to get

00:15:46.580 anybody else in trouble there was probably like a space and it was a place that was probably paved

00:15:51.280 so it was relatively flat so everybody could go and dance and like have their food and have a big 0.80

00:15:55.680 old party can i pause for a second and just like what the fuck is wrong with the english no offense 0.67

00:16:02.860 to our english listeners but my god they just go to other places and go no more fun well that was 0.80

00:16:10.160 part of it was because they wanted to stamp out everything to do with irish culture so they didn't

00:16:15.000 want the dancing going on you can't be happier irish they didn't want like them saying catholic

00:16:20.220 masses so like even now they're still like they refer to them as mass trees because like they

00:16:25.380 would lock them out of the churches or burn down the churches or you know somehow prohibit them

00:16:30.420 from entering the churches so the people when they wanted to practice their faith would meet at like 0.97

00:16:34.700 a specific tree in their neighborhood and have a mass there which is fucking depressing imagine 0.70

00:16:40.000 like meeting up to have a mass like i used to do anything to get out of mass when i was a kid 0.82

00:16:44.620 they're like they burned down the church but we're just gonna go to this tree you're like

00:16:50.720 yeah although like in the whole thing of we're always talking about on this podcast

00:16:55.600 christian beliefs have replaced like they replaced like a lot of pagan beliefs a lot

00:17:00.500 of these mass trees or mass rocks were actually sites of pagan heritage as well

00:17:04.700 so they were always spiritually significant it was just the spiritualism was replaced over the years

00:17:11.960 as well yeah so there's also the theory now i don't know how true it is but you know the way

00:17:16.720 irish dancers they're really stiff um yeah from like the waist up yeah apparently that's because

00:17:23.780 like all of the old like doors on the houses were like half doors so like in the evening time you 0.98

00:17:30.960 would have like the top part of your door open but the bottom part was closed almost like a gate to

00:17:35.340 keep like their animals out or whatever um they reckon that like when you're dancing behind the

00:17:40.140 doors if you kept your upper body stiff it didn't look like you were dancing so when the english

00:17:44.740 soldiers went past it didn't look like anybody was dancing like you're still hopping around the 0.73

00:17:51.940 place i don't know i think that is bullshit but i looked into it once because i was like i want to

00:17:58.180 i want somebody to debunk this for me and i couldn't find anything debunking it so if anybody 0.76

00:18:03.380 listening here knows anything about irish dancing please tell me that's fake because that's so 0.80

00:18:08.740 stupid that is so funny though i love the idea that people are just kicking their heels around 0.97

00:18:16.540 below the door as long as i stand very straight on top then nobody will know just maintaining 1.00

00:18:22.800 full eye contact that's exactly what i was picturing you're not gonna fucking stop me 0.87

00:18:30.180 yeah clickety clack to lower the the mood significantly traditionally people who died 0.89

00:18:38.880 by suicide were buried at crossroads so because suicide was regarded as completely shocking and

00:18:45.660 blasphemous and against god um like a the term used was fellow de say like a latin term meaning

00:18:54.220 a crime against oneself it resulted in the body being buried at a crossroads with a stake through

00:18:59.460 their heart and no religious ceremony it was believed that not only were the deceased undeserving

00:19:05.720 of hallowed ground but because again the crossroad was unowned land nobody else was responsible for

00:19:11.700 them wow which is so horrific we yeah we really have never enjoyed giving people the mental help

00:19:21.800 they deserve absolutely not or mental health care yeah um terrible although funny enough like

00:19:30.540 well not funny not funny haha funny strange similar to today it usually will take a celebrity

00:19:36.900 to raise awareness over things like this um right so when people became more understanding of mental

00:19:45.340 illness and depression there was a lord in england lord castle ray in 1822 um he died by

00:19:53.720 suicide and when people were more aware of like his story and his mental state they started to

00:19:59.940 re-examine this whole thing of burying people at crossroads yeah also sadly enough they used to

00:20:06.460 also bury executed criminals at crossroads once again so that nobody would have to be responsible

00:20:11.980 for them because they were undeserving of hallowed ground and yeah it was just sort of like literally

00:20:18.180 tossing them outside of society just a crossroads where like nobody people are just going to cross

00:20:22.780 over you all the time and nobody is tending to the land there or anything like that right crossroads

00:20:29.020 burials in the uk were abolished by an act of parliament in 1823 so not actually that long ago

00:20:36.380 yeah that's wild yeah it's like 200 years ago yeah crazy there was also a story of it's a really

00:20:44.320 old story of the everton vampire in 1680 a local farmer murdered his wife then allegedly drank her

00:20:50.440 blood before killing himself due to the rather gruesome details of the farmer's last acts before

00:20:55.520 dying in his own hands it was decided that special requirements were needed to ensure he would not

00:20:59.960 rise from his grave to feed upon the living so people took the whole just blood drinking vampire

00:21:05.320 thing very literally yeah they were like just in case yeah it was enough to guarantee that his

00:21:11.840 corpse would never be laid to rest in hallowed ground and he had to be buried at a crossroads

00:21:16.820 but the fact that he had drank the blood of his wife made things a little different for him a

00:21:22.460 sight was erected at the crossroads a grave was dug at night so his dead body would not be touched

00:21:28.600 by the warming rise of the sun he was laid in the grave face down and what was described as a huge

00:21:33.560 stake was driven through his heart to prevent his undead corpse from digging itself out of his

00:21:38.620 permanent resting place and terrorizing the locals he is rumored to still be buried there to this day

00:21:43.940 it's also funny to me that they're like to avoid the sun reaching him we'll just put him butt up 0.98

00:21:49.660 yeah face down ass up yeah 0.72

00:21:52.240 it's like the sun will still hit his backside yeah there was also another group of people 0.98

00:22:00.500 who were overwhelmingly buried at crossroads

00:22:03.540 and that were women who were found guilty of witchcraft. 0.77

00:22:06.400 Of course.

00:22:06.940 There is a place in Gloucestershire, England

00:22:08.780 called Betty's Grave.

00:22:10.320 The town is Poulton.

00:22:12.520 Reportedly, Betty randomly showed up in the village

00:22:14.980 one night in 1786.

00:22:17.600 She was unable to tell anybody her name

00:22:19.500 or where she was from.

00:22:20.840 Her unusual behaviour caused the villagers 1.00

00:22:22.580 to mistakenly assume her to be a witch. 0.99

00:22:24.800 The villagers tried to hang her twice 0.80

00:22:26.720 but each time she later climbed out of the grave

00:22:29.240 and returned to the village.

00:22:30.500 in fairness like the second time you just do it out of spite you're like

00:22:33.880 trying to hang me twice i am showing up at their window at nighttime

00:22:37.940 i'm gonna smear dirt in my face and stare at them i'm just thinking about like what kind of 0.95

00:22:45.920 strength do you have to have to be hanged twice and you don't die and crawl your way out of your

00:22:52.540 own grave yeah like it took buffy ages shallow at that point yeah and she has super strength

00:23:00.360 Weren't the guys on Supernatural buried alive, too?

00:23:02.880 Yeah, Dean was, definitely.

00:23:04.620 I was going to say, I know for sure he was, but I'm sure they all were at some point.

00:23:10.720 Yeah, Dean was, yeah, because it's the episode where he first meets Castiel.

00:23:14.600 He, like, crawls out of a grave.

00:23:16.160 Yeah, I remember very few details about the show, just, like, little snippets here and there.

00:23:21.940 But I was like, I think one of them got buried alive.

00:23:24.300 the villagers actually tried to hang

00:23:26.740 Betty a third time but 0.97

00:23:28.340 she warned them that she would only remain

00:23:30.800 in her grave if they continued to leave

00:23:32.720 flowers for her. They did so and all

00:23:34.680 seemed well until the 1970s when

00:23:36.640 the tribute stopped. Betty's ghost

00:23:38.460 apparently appeared in Fairford shortly

00:23:40.580 after. When the laying of flowers

00:23:42.600 resumed she disappeared

00:23:43.880 Interesting. Good for you Betty

00:23:46.280 Get what you want out of life 0.99

00:23:47.940 Just makes me think of the Bell Witch 1.00

00:23:50.040 Maybe she would have been nicer if they offered her flowers 0.99

00:23:52.960 Yeah exactly

00:23:54.160 um there's also a practice that was associated with crossroads called gibbeting which is not

00:24:03.760 something i'd heard of yeah it sounds pretty cutesy which a lot of like medieval english

00:24:08.720 stuff is and then you read it and you're like oh fuck that's not cute but i'm sorry have you heard

00:24:13.200 of what they call the charms that people put on their cracks oh yeah gibbets but that's like a j 0.94

00:24:20.900 i have gibbets here you have crocs oh my god neve do you not remember roasting me about getting

00:24:29.500 crocs i now i suddenly remember and i'm very disappointed hey i was just thinking today i

00:24:36.840 was like if either one of us ever gets crocs like me and madardo it's over that's what i used to say

00:24:43.320 and then um i started working from home and i was like i'm wearing extremely fluffy socks that are

00:24:48.720 hard to get into slippers but they're very easy to get crocs over so um she's been crockverted

00:24:55.460 yeah completely crockverted but i think they're the hipster shoe now i'm just calling it they're

00:25:01.180 the gen z shoe for sure oh they all wear them but that's because their parents put them in them when

00:25:06.900 they were little kids that's also true i forgot about that they were like i can't be tying your

00:25:13.820 shoes just wear these crocs i forgot about that wave of toddlers just wearing crocs all the time 0.96

00:25:18.960 holy shit wow yeah you're welcome recovered a memory so the non-croc type of gibbets um 0.95

00:25:27.840 these were gallows roads the crocs roads see you at the crocs roads um it was buried there 0.98

00:25:36.800 this uh was a gallows type structure from which the dead or dying bodies of criminals were hanged

00:25:44.620 on public display sometimes in cages to deter other existing or potential criminals the

00:25:51.440 structures were placed next to public highways frequently at crossroads and waterways that's so

00:25:57.220 it is very wild to me to think that that at some point in time people were like you know what we'll

00:26:05.700 make people not be criminals by just showing dead bodies that's actually something that we um

00:26:11.720 we discuss a lot in like in criminology um and it's the whole like notion of trying to discourage

00:26:19.760 like other criminals and it surprisingly does not work like using like shame to set an example like

00:26:28.560 the only time shame ever really works when somebody has done something wrong is when it's a

00:26:33.440 very low stakes things so you're basically shaming them on like facebook or something 0.96

00:26:37.100 but like actual criminals really don't give a fuck yeah and well yeah like i it's i think you 0.85

00:26:44.160 know they usually think if they see like somebody like if they saw somebody like in a gibbet like 0.70

00:26:48.600 this and they're like oh they're there for like thievery or whatever most of the criminals just 0.99

00:26:53.360 go well i'm not gonna get caught like that idiot you know exactly and they're criminals they're not 0.99

00:26:59.140 yeah like you know serial killers know that ultimately they could be caught and go to prison 1.00

00:27:05.480 but it doesn't deter them yeah it's not they know why because their brains don't work the same way

00:27:11.640 yeah it's a it's a calculation they make in their head before they do any of this

00:27:15.600 you know right so it just you're just traumatizing the general population yeah fun fact about gibbets

00:27:23.020 is do you know who oliver cromwell is sounds familiar so oliver cromwell is somewhat of like

00:27:31.880 a british national hero he like kind of toppled the monarchy etc etc in ireland he is a complete

00:27:40.820 monster he's like a boogeyman because all of those laws i was telling you about earlier where they

00:27:44.840 outlawed like dancing and like catholicism and speaking irish language uh that was because of 0.99

00:27:50.760 him so um irish people don't love a piece of shit don't love him but anyway it's much of a 0.98

00:27:56.540 muchness he's been dead a long time he outlawed the gibbet during his lifetime but i have a note 0.98

00:28:01.980 here irish listeners will be delighted to know he was gibbeted after his own death good the

00:28:07.900 monarchists that he pissed off disinterred his body during the restoration of the british monarchy 0.97

00:28:12.660 so they literally dug the fucker up and put him there now i'm not a monarchist but good for them 0.98

00:28:21.500 So that's the gibbets. 0.99

00:28:24.680 Not the crocs type. 0.73

00:28:26.100 Not the crocs type.

00:28:27.820 We're going to get into some, just a few like superstitions associated with crossroads.

00:28:32.920 There is one old folk remedy for warts that involves rubbing the wart with a piece of raw meat.

00:28:39.080 You put the meat in a bag and bury it at the crossroads.

00:28:44.220 Gross, but okay.

00:28:45.760 I mean, if it works, you do you.

00:28:50.760 in german folklore if you'd like to hear the names of the people that will die in the coming year

00:28:56.160 you simply need to visit a crossroads between 11 p.m at midnight on new year's eve which is

00:29:01.540 obviously another liminal time to hear the names called out by the wind

00:29:04.940 that's also like the opening plot to there's a big series called the raven cycle and the main

00:29:11.900 character is she's like psychic and it starts with her in a graveyard on new year's eve hoping

00:29:19.720 to hear the names of the dead which is just funny because i was like oh i didn't know that came from

00:29:23.640 german lore yeah interesting yeah like i thought the author made this up in a lot of the research

00:29:30.100 that i've done it's like wow jk rowling stole from like everything it seems like a ton of the stuff

00:29:38.580 like was not her original idea which yeah it's wild to me it's funny it can either when you start

00:29:45.560 researching things and you realize the origin of it it can either really impress you because

00:29:50.020 you'll realize how much research an author actually put into something that like you'll

00:29:55.280 find something that they had in their book like you'll find it buried under like in some like

00:30:00.800 academic journal and you're like oh that's where they got that and you're like wow they put in so

00:30:05.060 much work or it'll just be like they stole this they just completely lifted this right i think

00:30:10.700 with her just because of how many things it was it's just like i don't know i mean like good on

00:30:18.500 you for knowing a lot of like folklore and all that kind of stuff but yeah especially back in

00:30:23.620 the 90s when like researching would have been a lot harder than just googling things you know 0.71

00:30:27.420 yeah you had to go get an encyclopedia and stuff um but yeah just kind of a bummer that she stole 1.00

00:30:34.760 like everything and then made this huge empire and then just completely disappointed so many of her

00:30:42.240 trans and lgbt fans yeah so we always have to it's like we we will have like a bingo it's like we're 0.97

00:30:50.840 gonna uh shit talk jk roiling we're gonna probably talk about the warrens and um the third it wouldn't 0.97

00:31:00.360 be an episode of Roan and Pine without some 0.99

00:31:02.060 depressing animal cruelty.

00:31:04.840 Crowing hens were regarded

00:31:06.300 as unlucky and people would just abandon

00:31:08.360 them at crossroads.

00:31:09.780 Aww. Yeah.

00:31:11.940 That's sad. That is sad because fox

00:31:14.320 has probably got them. Like a hen, you're not going to

00:31:16.300 find a hen living in the wild. 1.00

00:31:17.920 They're dumb. 1.00

00:31:22.100 Yeah. Which makes it more sad. 1.00

00:31:25.120 Yeah. And also

00:31:26.500 even sadder than that

00:31:28.100 children who died without being

00:31:30.700 baptized were also buried at Crossroads

00:31:32.380 because they weren't allowed on hallowed ground 0.87

00:31:34.600 wow

00:31:35.920 yeah but

00:31:37.720 let's get into some fun things

00:31:40.040 some fun crossroads creatures

00:31:42.600 after those two bummers in a row

00:31:44.220 yeah that's just such a bummer

00:31:46.020 just like oh yeah and by the way like

00:31:48.060 children who weren't baptized they don't get like

00:31:50.440 a real grave yeah

00:31:52.020 was it like

00:31:54.160 it was like last century just

00:31:56.080 like late last century the catholic church decided that limbo wasn't a thing because limbo used to

00:32:01.000 be like between heaven and hell because they'd know where to go and they reckon that's where

00:32:04.540 unbaptized babies went it's horrible just because you didn't pour some water on their head 1.00

00:32:10.160 so stupid lord bad lord no offense to the catholics or anybody christian right no no offense 1.00

00:32:19.600 but remember it's the institution we don't like you guys are cool yeah so some crossroads 0.99

00:32:29.640 creatures oh shirt from belge i don't like oh shirt it's o-s-c-h-a-e-r-t i apologize 0.91

00:32:40.260 to anybody who speaks flemish is that what they speak in belgium oh shirt 0.80

00:32:45.720 oh my god maybe it's oh shit hold on i'm looking it up 1.00

00:33:06.920 giggle doesn't even know what the fuck i mean 0.99

00:33:11.740 oh my god there's a dutch version as well the dutch don't have the h it's oh cert oh cert 0.97

00:33:23.500 oh my god i'm so sorry it's fine the way you like the way you said it and then you're like

00:33:33.800 i heard it right away i'm like oh that sounds terrible yeah and then and then you pause to

00:33:39.020 say it again the same exact way maybe if i put on like some sort of accent or shirt

00:33:46.280 no that's like austrian or something

00:33:49.140 anyway the dog right he's a black trickster dog that haunted crossroads this is my dog shart

00:34:00.200 not just shart oh shart

00:34:04.380 i'm sorry to anybody whose name i'm sure there's gonna be somebody

00:34:10.600 maybe but they're probably not listening maybe it's like maybe it's a hard c maybe it's oskart

00:34:16.980 that sounds more accurate okay oskart oh my gosh continue please

00:34:27.740 so this was a black trickster dog from belgian folklore that haunted crossroads

00:34:33.900 you have to stand in the dead center of the crossroads and wait for the dog to leave tail 0.99

00:34:38.720 between his legs for him to like not fuck with you interesting like what if he leaves and his 0.99

00:34:44.260 tail is not between his legs i don't know maybe he saw a rabbit or something or maybe he saw 0.99

00:34:49.080 the crossroads cat so there's a crossroads cat called the money cat to conjure the cat you must

00:34:56.020 leave a food offering particularly a dead hen probably a crowing one until it shows itself to

00:35:02.000 you then it will allow you to take it home once the cat is in your house it must be trapped in a

00:35:07.040 box or the corner of the house until it is tamed you must take diligent care of it including feeding

00:35:12.500 it well and offering it treats if you let it out early or you don't take proper care of it it will

00:35:17.380 flee your home and curse you with bad luck okay every aspect of that sounds like a regular cat

00:35:24.660 just a regular old cat you just have to bring a cat home feed it well give it treats and

00:35:31.180 ewan always refers to it as stockholm syndroming a cat like when you first get a cat you basically

00:35:36.240 have to like keep it like in your house like constantly and like keep it like to one room

00:35:40.840 and just make it kind of love you a bit right so it will stop constantly trying to run away

00:35:45.740 and yelling yeah so um that's funny yeah the crossroads cat hot take here it's just a cat

00:35:52.320 if you are out there and you have a cat it's a crossroads cat yeah if you find especially if

00:35:59.500 you find it at a crossroads yeah then it's definitely a crossroads cat yeah but um definitely

00:36:06.640 don't let it like run away because it will curse you with bad luck for sure yeah so the most famous

00:36:14.300 or the most often associated thing with crossroads are deals with the devil uh crossroads when i

00:36:22.900 was telling midardo you were doing crossroads he was like like what and i was like you haven't

00:36:27.020 heard of like the crossroads stuff where you like make a deal with the devil and he's like

00:36:31.280 no oh cool this is a midardo educational podcast there will be a test are you listening

00:36:40.140 crossroads because they're a liminal space they're a good place to call upon and to meet

00:36:45.320 with the devil this notion has a historical context theophilus an orthodox cleric in the

00:36:53.240 sixth century was said to have made a deal with the devil to gain an ecclesiastical position

00:36:58.540 his story significant as significant as it is the oldest recorded story of a pact with the devil

00:37:04.500 this then led to the story of faust we also know like term a faustian deal or a faustian bargain

00:37:10.900 this all comes from that faust is a classic german legend that has been adapted into various

00:37:17.420 literary works and plays one of the most famous versions is johann wolfgang von goethe's tragic

00:37:23.060 play just called faust so the very basic story of faust is mephistopheles who was

00:37:33.000 in some of the legends he was the devil himself in other legends and i think in the play he's just

00:37:39.720 a representation of the devil makes a bet with god that he will be able to turn one of god's

00:37:45.800 servants away from god or turn him evil okay um so they choose faust god agrees claiming that faust

00:37:53.220 will remain one of his loyal followers faust was a scholar and an alchemist was a man dissatisfied

00:37:59.480 with his own life's limitations because he really wanted to be able to gain all the knowledge in the

00:38:05.000 crafts that he was dedicating his life to um and he was becoming extremely despondent because i'm

00:38:11.580 thinking if he was an alchemist he was trying to turn lead into gold and obviously that wasn't

00:38:15.280 working so that's probably one of the reasons he was getting kind of pissed off about it

00:38:19.160 he's like none of my projects are working yeah he agrees to sell his soul to mephistopheles in

00:38:25.580 exchange for unlimited knowledge worldly pleasures and boundless power mephistopheles

00:38:30.860 who is cunning and manipulative accepts the bargain and becomes faust's dark companion and

00:38:36.840 guide faust's life undergoes a dramatic transformation he regains his youth he indulges

00:38:42.080 in sensual pleasures

00:38:43.280 and he goes on grand adventures

00:38:46.040 he even falls in love with a young woman

00:38:48.080 named Gretchen but their relationship

00:38:50.240 eventually leads to tragedy

00:38:52.200 Faust's pursuit of his desires

00:38:54.060 and Mephistopheles' influence

00:38:56.140 create a trail of chaos, corruption and

00:38:58.020 destruction and as the

00:39:00.080 consequences of Faust's actions accumulate

00:39:02.260 he becomes increasingly aware of the

00:39:04.060 moral and ethical implications of his choices

00:39:06.120 he witnesses the suffering of

00:39:08.120 those he has harmed, particularly Gretchen

00:39:10.080 who's driven to despair by the consequences of their relationship with Faust

00:39:14.220 when she decides to kill their infant child and is, as a result, arrested.

00:39:20.120 After she's arrested, Faust sneaks into the jail and finds Gretchen.

00:39:23.540 She has devolved into insanity.

00:39:25.740 She doesn't recognise Faust, instead mistaking him for her executioner.

00:39:30.680 Faust pleads with her to escape with him, but her own sense of guilt and shame,

00:39:34.020 as well as the prospect of the despairing life that she will live outside of the jail,

00:39:37.600 prevents her from escape.

00:39:38.880 in the end faust seeks redemption strifes to undo the harm he's caused his journey takes him into

00:39:44.600 the mystical realm of the mothers where he hopes to find ultimate wisdom and salvation however

00:39:49.180 mephistopheles is always close by eager to claim faust's soul as per their pact so that's the

00:39:55.420 faustian bargain or the faustian deal it's so sort of famous it's become like a shorthand for like a

00:40:02.620 you know a deal where you're basically selling a part of yourself or selling a part of your soul

00:40:06.740 in return for something that probably isn't worth it

00:40:09.840 or will turn out to not be worth it.

00:40:11.860 Interesting.

00:40:12.440 I never heard that story before.

00:40:13.840 I had never heard it like completely like laid out.

00:40:17.140 I knew it was like to do with the deal with the devil

00:40:18.860 and I knew it was somebody who wanted

00:40:21.220 either great power or great knowledge.

00:40:23.560 But yeah, I didn't know about Gretchen.

00:40:25.720 Probably the other,

00:40:28.240 maybe the second most famous story

00:40:29.880 to do with deals at the crossroads

00:40:31.700 is the infamous...

00:40:33.040 Is this the blues musician?

00:40:34.460 Uh-huh.

00:40:34.500 the infamous crossroads legend of robert johnson that's the one i know yeah so robert johnson

00:40:40.900 johnson was one of the most influential blues musicians of all time he was born in mississippi

00:40:47.560 in 1911 his early life was marked by poverty and obscurity the legend goes that he made a pact

00:40:54.820 with the devil at a crossroads in exchange for extraordinary guitar playing skills according to

00:41:00.740 the story johnson met met a dark figure at a desolate crossroads and after a midnight guitar

00:41:07.180 session he emerged with an uncanny ability to play the blues like no one else a jam sesh a jam sesh

00:41:15.300 or tenacious either we don't know his music then obviously went on to captivate audiences and in

00:41:24.560 fairness he didn't really lean away from the legend uh because his most famous songs were

00:41:29.340 things like crossroads blues and there's a hellhound on my tail yeah they're both like

00:41:34.800 iconic blues songs tragically in real life he is part of the 27 club people reckon that he died

00:41:40.740 obviously at 27 under mysterious circumstances in 1938 researchers when they looked into his

00:41:47.980 actual death certificate there is no cause listed on it that's weird that has fueled the myth of

00:41:54.540 both the 27 club and

00:41:56.740 the whole deal with the devil thing

00:41:58.400 if he just died

00:42:00.560 or possibly hate crimes

00:42:02.600 yes because he was a 0.91

00:42:04.640 black man in the south 0.91

00:42:06.660 yes very true I'm sure

00:42:08.640 that his originality

00:42:10.900 and his style of playing was co-opted

00:42:12.660 later by a lot of white musicians who got

00:42:14.700 even more famous right because that's the way these

00:42:16.600 things go but yeah go stream

00:42:18.400 crossroad blues or something like after

00:42:20.680 you listen to this because yeah it

00:42:22.600 deserves to be heard yeah it's pretty good i've listened to his music before it's good yeah i was

00:42:27.780 listening to some of it like when i was researching this and then i was making that like um i was

00:42:33.180 talking to you about like my fixation with that music genre called southern gothic where it's all

00:42:38.680 like real old like bluesy folksy dark like it's just you know folk songs about murder and dying

00:42:45.620 and death and stuff like that and crossroads demons yes pretty cool yeah so it has been

00:42:51.680 speculated that the quote-unquote devil that Johnson met was actually Papa Legba, who is a

00:43:00.220 voodoo trickster god. They say in this article, God, I'm going to tell you why that's not accurate

00:43:05.460 because the next part of the podcast is going into the voodoo religion and talking about their

00:43:13.640 affinity and respect and affection for crossroads so blanket disclaimer um i have looked into voodoo

00:43:22.720 as a religion i have tried to be as accurate as possible with all of the entities and the spirits

00:43:31.520 and the pantheons and the families and all of that uh but it is there are a lot of conflicting

00:43:38.700 things online and obviously i am not a practitioner um if you want to know anything actually like

00:43:45.620 accurate and reliable there are lots of amazing creators online that do seem to like to share

00:43:51.380 um about their religion so i suggest you go check one of those out yeah i'm going to start us off

00:43:57.700 with a quote from hoodoo in america by zora hurston which is a seminal article from the 1930s

00:44:06.520 from the journal of american folklore so zora writes voodoo is the european term for african

00:44:13.640 magic practices and beliefs but it is unknown to the american negro his own name for his practices

00:44:19.960 is hoodoo both terms being related to the west african term juju conjure is also freely used by

00:44:26.880 the american negro these are her words i apologize if i am offending anyone by using these words

00:44:31.680 for these practices in the bahamas as on the west coast of africa the term is obia

00:44:37.260 and roots is the southern negroes term for folk doctoring by herbs and prescriptions and by

00:44:42.980 extension and because all hoodoo doctors cure by roots it may be used as a synonym for hoodoo

00:44:48.520 so that's bringing it back to episode one

00:44:52.820 folk cures in this tradition are it can be referred to as roots or also hoodoo

00:44:58.700 that's cool we do love a throwback i really like that with every episode we do there's like always

00:45:04.740 tie-ins to other stuff yeah it's so magical like when cultures like move across like continents

00:45:12.220 and like people mix and borrow and all of that like a lot of this stuff shows up again and again

00:45:18.700 in different cultures like either called by a different name or with like a slightly different

00:45:23.700 belief or anything like that right like how with the like in Appalachia the people like the white

00:45:29.480 settlers in that area and the Native American folklore it all just kind of like blended together

00:45:35.100 exactly and that's actually similar to how voodoo merges both Catholic and African beliefs to form

00:45:45.000 a unique set of rituals that include the classic as we've seen from all of our media like voodoo

00:45:51.020 dolls symbolic drawings using you know dust and sand and lots of stuff that you might see you

00:45:57.400 might look at that and go hmm if that was in a church that would not look out of place right

00:46:02.260 but because people are doing it in their homes because you know these are their own places of

00:46:07.120 worship and they have their altars that they're able to build and you know add to and use that

00:46:13.000 to express their spirituality it doesn't make it any less valid and yeah it's just interesting that

00:46:19.600 these are two that seem very different religions that have merged well it's it reminds me of

00:46:26.740 like in witchcraft like altars are a big thing and then in catholicism they have altars around

00:46:34.340 the church but like religious people will see like a witch's altar and be like oh my god and

00:46:41.020 they like freak out about it it's like basically the same thing you're doing just you know it

00:46:47.240 might not be to like capital g god yeah and it's just like um praying by another name is just

00:46:57.260 chanting right you know yeah and singing hymns and stuff like that it's all it's exactly it's

00:47:03.560 all similar it's just just different yeah it's not even like different ways of doing it it's

00:47:10.000 just different contexts i guess yeah i'm like because you're not like seeking a different

00:47:14.340 outcome you're still seeking the same outcome i don't know well some of it i i know with hymns

00:47:19.840 hymns are like obviously part of worship but like they've done studies about like the

00:47:24.980 the effects of group singing on your brain and that you feel like more like you belong yeah and

00:47:30.960 that's why people love going to like live shows or concerts and they all sing together and like

00:47:36.740 you feel like you're bonding with everybody it's like such a good moment yeah or it's like if you

00:47:42.580 go to a massive sporting event and everybody's singing the same like chant or whatever you know

00:47:47.280 it's it's all like down to like your human nature and that you enjoy like feeling like you belong

00:47:52.020 to something bigger than yourself so yeah humans are cute we're we're all just cute we all just

00:47:59.500 want to be like part of something right we're just cute little losers who yeah don't know what we're

00:48:04.880 doing or do we know what we're doing i don't know anyway voodoo probably most known

00:48:13.360 associated with voodoo are the loa this can be spelled lwa or loa um i have both in my notes

00:48:21.560 because my notes are also a mishmash of many things uh it's important to note that loa are

00:48:27.400 not gods or goddesses or deities so the quote that i was pulling from earlier that said that

00:48:33.500 papa legba is a god is not accurate so loa are spirits voodoo is similar to christianity

00:48:41.980 monotheistic voodoo practitioners only have one god this entity is the creator of the universe

00:48:48.220 and it's called the bondi or the grand met the word bondi is derived from the french

00:48:54.320 word bondu which literally means good god interesting the loa play a major role in the

00:49:01.160 lives of voodoo practitioners or devotees uh human beings serve the loah whom they love respect and

00:49:08.000 fear often practitioners will choose a certain loah that they would wish to follow um sort of

00:49:14.560 like a saint sort of like a saint yeah so it's it's like they they'll represent whatever

00:49:19.900 characteristics that they're seeking okay or that they're you know they feel an affinity with yeah

00:49:24.580 Yeah, or like a god or a goddess.

00:49:26.960 Yeah, but it's a spirit.

00:49:28.560 Yeah. 0.71

00:49:29.300 Also, as a mark of respect, voodoo practitioners always use the prefix papa, mama, or met, which means father, mother, or mistress, when referring to a loa.

00:49:41.040 In return for their devotion and piety, the living expect blessings, protection, and favors.

00:49:46.940 So, like, why wouldn't you?

00:49:48.800 You can get some cool stuff out of life.

00:49:51.140 Yeah.

00:49:52.120 Favors. 1.00

00:49:54.580 The Lois are divided into different groups.

00:49:57.060 One source I saw said that there are, I think, 17 different groups.

00:50:02.480 These groups are known as nanchants, coming from the French word for nations.

00:50:07.000 There's probably two to three that are the most famous,

00:50:10.600 and we're only going to focus on a couple from those three categories.

00:50:16.640 The two main ones are the Petro and the Radha.

00:50:20.160 According to Voodoo belief, the Lois communicate with humans through dreams and divination, 0.85

00:50:24.580 and in turn are given offerings offerings can include sacrificed animals or maybe foodstuffs

00:50:30.960 or like you know like vices like rum or like tobacco or something like that that are associated

00:50:35.880 with the loa also interestingly and this is where it can get confusing for somebody like me who's

00:50:42.640 just coming to into this really fresh the same loa may appear as a rada and a petwal so there

00:50:50.620 It can be two different members of these two different notions or nations can be one spirit.

00:50:56.120 But depending on the aspects of the spirit that are being represented, there'll be a member of the Radha or the Petuo.

00:51:03.120 I'm going to explain that.

00:51:04.420 Okay.

00:51:04.640 So what distinguishes the Radha and the Petuo is the general character, attitude and the persona of the Loa. 0.51

00:51:12.840 So Radha Loa are associated with peace and benevolence, but they can also turn out to be a little bit vindictive.

00:51:19.940 they're just displeased or if they're offended in contrast the petro lois are commonly thought of

00:51:25.580 as forceful aggressive or dangerous so just like people there could be like two different sides to

00:51:30.780 a character and depending on the situation or what's being like asked of them that would be who

00:51:37.780 is uh who is being represented just very basically rada lois are often considered to also have petro

00:51:44.580 aspects which are harsher and more aggressive than their rata counterparts so we will see an

00:51:50.400 example of this going forward okay papa legba who is somebody that you probably when you're

00:51:58.540 picturing uh voodoo law or voodoo spirits you're probably like bringing to mind papa legba or

00:52:07.280 bow and samedi who i'm going to talk about after so papa legba is uh an older spirit he's usually

00:52:14.400 like a bent over old man and he's basically seen as like benevolent he's like a kind of like a

00:52:20.180 grandfather figure okay um just a side note that it kept coming up in my research that there was

00:52:25.520 like some white lady who said who apparently died and she was trying to summon papa legba

00:52:30.720 and a lot of practitioners were like it's kind of like the equivalent of summoning santa claus like

00:52:35.540 you know he's not like a vengeful spirit like why why are they trying to say that she died

00:52:41.260 because she summoned him anyway propaganda shows yeah people going into um you know spaces where

00:52:47.340 they don't understand properly right i'm doing now but at least you're not trying to like make

00:52:53.180 it bad yeah i'm trying to be as respectful as i can and trying to understand as much as i can

00:52:57.720 yeah so papa legba is a radoloa who's strongly associated with crossroads magic and he is

00:53:04.480 rumored to be the spirit that robert johnson actually met not the devil okay because the

00:53:09.920 devil was probably more well known at that stage so it made a better story to say it was the devil

00:53:13.560 yeah legba is one of the most important lois in haitian voodoo he is the first called in a service

00:53:19.600 so that he can open the gates to the spirit world so he's almost like the key master yeah so when

00:53:25.720 you are starting a service or like beginning to worship you must call papa legba and basically

00:53:32.180 ask him for permission at the beginning and you also must reference him at the end to close out

00:53:37.020 the service as well so that's how important he is yeah no loa dares show itself without papa legba's

00:53:42.700 permission he controls the crossing over from one world to the other he's also known to hold the key

00:53:47.840 of the spiritual world and for that reason he's identified a lot with the christian saint peter

00:53:52.680 who guards the gates of heaven that's interesting physically he's a small crooked lovable old man

00:53:59.500 who uses a little pipe with tobacco he carries bits of food in a sack and he has sores on his

00:54:05.240 body but when he mounts someone the person's limbs are twisted and horrible to see

00:54:09.320 so it seems like these uh spirits can like um sort of take over people or like mount them yeah

00:54:16.960 giving him a piggyback ride similar to how loa can have two separate identities legba

00:54:24.600 has a twin identity called calfu um this comes from the french term calfo which literally means

00:54:31.460 crossroads okay so calfu also controls the crossroads but he controls the dark spirits

00:54:39.160 so the spirits of sinners or malevolent spirits so whereas legba will be you know the one who lets

00:54:46.040 like positive spirits crossover or people who aren't like destined for like bad things in

00:54:52.020 afterlife yeah just like your grandma or whatever yeah so kalfi's sort of like lucifer and he sort

00:54:58.360 of looks after the dark spirits and the quote-unquote sinners of the world um he's also

00:55:03.720 been likened to pandora in greek mythology because he lets out the evil forces of the spirit world

00:55:09.720 when he wants he also allows the crossing of bad luck deliberate destruction misfortune and

00:55:15.660 injustice um he controls the in-between points of the crossroads the off-center points where his

00:55:21.740 Legba controls the positive spirits of the day

00:55:23.960 and the center parts of the

00:55:26.000 crossroads. So he's sort of like the balance

00:55:27.860 to Legba. Okay. And it seems to be

00:55:29.880 like the balance of the world because like everything

00:55:31.780 can't be good and positive all of the time or else

00:55:33.860 you wouldn't appreciate it. Right.

00:55:35.900 When Kalfu enters a service

00:55:38.120 everybody usually stops speaking

00:55:39.900 because he is allowing

00:55:41.460 evil to come to the ceremony.

00:55:43.640 Some people sort of characterize him

00:55:45.860 as a demon but

00:55:47.120 a lot of people would also

00:55:49.000 it says that Kalfu would deny this.

00:55:51.740 and though he is a respected loire he is not liked very much he's also the grandmaster of

00:55:58.680 charms and sorceries and he's associated mainly with black magic yeah so he's a spooky boy

00:56:05.100 so he's like the dark the dark side of yeah papa legbe yeah when i was originally looking into this

00:56:13.140 at the only name that i really knew was bow and samedy or bar and samedy or samdy as practitioners

00:56:20.180 seem to call him emily and i were talking about this before i was saying i've been saying samedi

00:56:24.360 this whole time yeah so that's what i that's how i pronounced it too yeah but there is a family of

00:56:32.240 lois who represent the powers of death and fertility and they celebrate life in the midst of

00:56:37.700 death they're sort of like i've seen them described as the party crashers at the end of the ceremony

00:56:42.580 so these lois are known as the gay day in some sources it said that gay day were another category

00:56:50.080 of lois in other sources it said gay day was simply a family of lois and they weren't like

00:56:58.240 a separate category of them the head of the gay day is papa gay day he is the eternal figure in

00:57:04.060 black controlling the eternal crossroads at which everyone must someday cross over his symbol is the 0.90

00:57:10.600 cross upon a tomb you're probably listening to that and thinking but isn't that what papa leg

00:57:16.020 and same i was like who what it's the editing gremlin i realized i just said this was confusing

00:57:24.600 and then never actually properly explained it the closest likeness i could draw is if you think of

00:57:31.660 legba and kaifu as the double-sided coin of saint peter and lucifer then papagayde and bow and

00:57:40.840 Osamity are more like death.

00:57:43.460 Does that make sense? 0.98

00:57:44.840 Anyway, back to the show.

00:57:46.800 One of Gede's great powers is he is a protector of children.

00:57:50.580 He does not like to see children suffer or die.

00:57:53.080 He believes that they need a full life.

00:57:55.480 Thus, he is the loa to go to when you're seeking help for a sick child. 1.00

00:57:59.880 He also has the power over zombies, voodoo zombies, 0.95

00:58:03.340 and decides whether or not people can be changed into animals. 1.00

00:58:07.100 Any such black magic voodoo must seek the help of Papa Gede. 0.90

00:58:10.840 Other spirits fear him, and especially because his alter ego is Baran Samdi. 0.73

00:58:16.980 So Baran Samdi represents the death.

00:58:18.960 He's like the darkness side.

00:58:21.040 Yes, the death side of Gede.

00:58:22.860 He is the keeper of the cemetery, and he's the primary contact with the dead.

00:58:27.640 Anyone who seeks contact with the dead must first solicit Gede or Baran Samdi

00:58:32.440 in the same way that Legba is contacted to cross over to the spirit world. 0.65

00:58:37.360 So he is the loa of death and resurrection.

00:58:40.180 but he's also the law of history too he's the keeper of the ceremony and because he has he has

00:58:46.020 intimate contact with the dead he knows what their plans were and are and what's going on in families

00:58:51.680 and what the connections of things are between people and he can be quite generous with his

00:58:56.460 information if he's given the correct offering um he's characterized as being quite vulgar and

00:59:03.260 funny and clownish and um he's like a real character and interesting his his face would

00:59:10.380 say otherwise yeah baron samedi is usually depicted with a top hat black tail coat dark 0.78

00:59:16.380 glasses and cotton plugs in the nostrils as if to resemble a corpse dressed and prepared for

00:59:21.680 burial in the haitian style he is also frequently depicted as a skeleton but sometimes simply as a

00:59:27.980 black man that merely has his face painted

00:59:30.080 as a skull and he speaks in a 0.98

00:59:32.020 really nasal voice. Like

00:59:33.980 me currently.

00:59:37.060 Since Gede

00:59:37.860 is the quote unquote lord of death

00:59:39.980 he's also the final last resort for

00:59:41.940 healing if somebody's on their deathbed

00:59:43.920 since he decides whether

00:59:45.560 to accept the sick person 0.96

00:59:47.940 into the land of the dead or to allow

00:59:49.860 them to recover. Interesting.

00:59:51.820 His wisdom is unparalleled

00:59:54.140 because his knowledge of the world

00:59:56.120 and the collective knowledge of the dead

00:59:57.880 that he i don't want to say controls but the dead that he interacts with it is also believed that

01:00:02.760 the first man buried in a this is in haitian voodoo the first man buried in a ceremony becomes

01:00:10.820 a manifestation of baron samdi um and that person serves as a guardian of the cemetery

01:00:17.420 and similarly the first woman becomes a manifest manifestation of samdi's wife gran bridget

01:00:23.980 wait the first person

01:00:27.100 yeah so when there's like a new

01:00:29.600 when there's a new

01:00:31.320 cemetery the first person

01:00:33.600 who's buried there

01:00:34.500 oh a new cemetery

01:00:36.600 I think you said a new

01:00:39.540 ceremony oh did I okay

01:00:41.180 so apologies

01:00:42.480 or maybe I just misheard

01:00:44.800 the first man buried in a cemetery

01:00:47.540 becomes a manifestation of 0.96

01:00:49.500 Bounsandy so I would assume 1.00

01:00:51.520 that's quite comforting if like

01:00:53.320 say you lost like your grandfather or something and he was being buried in this brand new cemetery

01:00:57.600 you know that he's become the guardian of the cemetery yeah that's i think that's pretty nice

01:01:03.280 you're like i don't know about this cemetery and they're like we got you

01:01:06.480 interestingly samdi often removes the right lens of his glasses to observe the living world while

01:01:13.500 using the other lens to keep an eye on the realm of the dead that's cool that's really cool i can

01:01:18.880 see why i could do that i would say it's like probably really offensive but i can see why a

01:01:24.420 lot of people like to dress up as samdi for like halloween and stuff um right well it's like a it's

01:01:29.580 kind of like all of the stuff about halloween that people like exactly he's like he's a spooky boy

01:01:34.380 he's got flair he wears a top hat his colors are like purple and black you know yeah he's got the

01:01:40.900 skeleton face yeah skeleton face he just and he's like really kind of extroverted and flamboyant

01:01:47.080 and does a lot of like dancing

01:01:48.880 when you get your fall cold

01:01:51.240 you can sound like him

01:01:52.440 he's also famous for crafting

01:01:55.420 his own potent liquor known as

01:01:57.240 raw clarin which is a type of

01:01:59.260 inexpensive rum infused with

01:02:01.040 21 hot peppers rendering it

01:02:03.260 incredibly spicy and unpalatable

01:02:05.460 to other lois

01:02:06.400 so that's why a lot of times 0.85

01:02:09.700 offerings to

01:02:10.780 Sandy's altar is

01:02:12.940 you offer him rum

01:02:14.320 because he likes his rum

01:02:15.920 so he's a spicy spooky boy

01:02:19.080 his powers

01:02:21.180 aside from deciding who can die

01:02:23.260 and who can go on living

01:02:24.360 he ensures that the veil between the living

01:02:27.400 world and the dead

01:02:28.380 so Halloween is never truly

01:02:31.200 disrupted and that the dead never

01:02:33.080 return as zombies to bother the living

01:02:35.420 but if they do he can control them

01:02:37.120 yeah that's a cool

01:02:39.360 power

01:02:39.660 he also maybe petitioned for help with

01:02:43.340 conception as he represents the confluence

01:02:45.560 of sexuality and death hey hey so he's a sexy spicy spooky boy yeah we like him he seems like 0.97

01:02:53.440 a lot of fun he's like everything good about the world he's like rum and sex and dancing and 0.91

01:02:59.680 zombies and it's like all the things that i like and spicy things yeah absolutely he's also invoked

01:03:09.540 as the patron of many professionals who come into contact with death such as grave diggers

01:03:14.680 mortuary workers people who work in like funeral homes or you know like officiated funerals or

01:03:21.820 anything like that yeah and he also has a celebration the fetge day celebration which is

01:03:30.800 feast of the dead which um anybody who is familiar with day of the dead in the mexican culture

01:03:38.920 yeah so just uh like a description of how that is celebrated the feast of the dead is a time when

01:03:46.060 vodouison i really hope i pronounced that right celebrate the ancestral dead typically held

01:03:52.060 during either or both the first two days in november so it's known as the festival of the

01:03:57.500 ancestors it's like the video equivalent of mardi gras the mexican day of the dead and halloween

01:04:03.700 all in one so they're trying to say that it's like okay like a festival and it's like kind of

01:04:09.540 debauched and stuff but it's also like day of the dead but it's also like spooky like halloween

01:04:13.260 i think that's what they're trying to say yeah and like honoring your ancestors and all that

01:04:17.040 kind of stuff interesting that sounds honestly sounds yeah um i saw some photos of it and it

01:04:23.980 looked amazing like the way people were painted and everything like body paint and all of that

01:04:28.940 yeah so that's probably where the mardi gras yeah so people dress up take to the streets

01:04:35.140 dance their communion with the ancestors walk in processions to the graveyards where they feed

01:04:40.200 their ancestral dead with the gifts of their own table in this way the spirits are honored and

01:04:44.720 their protection is gained for the coming year in churches there is music dancing and feasting

01:04:50.460 the priests and the people come together and there's a lot of drumming singing laughter it's

01:04:55.780 supposed to be enough and loud enough to raise the dead so you're supposed to like party as hard as

01:05:00.620 you possibly can that's so cool isn't it yeah even though it shares catlander space and ideology with 0.72

01:05:07.580 roman catholic day of the dead or all souls day fat gay day can be more accurately accurately

01:05:13.440 said to derive from african traditions preserved largely unchanged through centuries there's also

01:05:18.780 a special ancestral service

01:05:20.700 held at the crossroads

01:05:22.560 to honour Papagede

01:05:24.280 because it's considered the bridge

01:05:26.900 between life and death

01:05:28.020 and rituals can also take place

01:05:30.700 throughout November but are concentrated at the beginning

01:05:32.920 of the month. Gifts that can be laid out

01:05:34.960 are homemade beeswax candles

01:05:36.980 flowers, food

01:05:38.180 and to warm the Gede's bones

01:05:40.680 bottles of rum stuffed with chilli peppers

01:05:42.940 and that

01:05:45.320 is my episode

01:05:46.880 on crossroads

01:05:48.080 oh no that felt like a long one yeah it was very uh informative i was just sitting here like

01:05:55.640 learning a lot it was very hard i probably could have edited myself more but i kept finding stuff

01:06:00.940 going oh that's really interesting oh that's really interesting that's the trouble with this

01:06:04.500 sometimes yeah even when i was doing like the witch's broom stuff i was like okay try to like

01:06:09.220 keep it like you know keep it you know like concise yeah but it's like you could you kind

01:06:15.860 to like talk about like some little things that are like surrounding that but like don't go too

01:06:20.120 far out yeah it's so hard i think because we're both so interested in this stuff you just want to

01:06:26.200 like it's so hard not to just info dump on you and just be like yeah emily did you know that

01:06:31.080 right i read this did you see this you know well i think that's it's good because then we have more

01:06:36.680 stuff for different episodes yeah when i was doing the researching about like witch's brooms i think

01:06:41.660 i was texting you about it about how i was like doing a whole series on this would be so much fun

01:06:47.840 because it would there's just so much so many books and articles and blogs and there's just

01:06:54.840 like a lot of information out there like full multi-episode podcasts have been made just about

01:07:01.520 the salem witch trials right when you think about like how much is in that yeah you know

01:07:07.300 like you could definitely write so much more all right so one of our listeners

01:07:13.500 i don't know if we should name them we'll just we'll not we'll call him anonymous

01:07:19.920 introverted in indiana i don't know if he lives in indiana

01:07:23.540 not in indiana but um so the advice that we are being asked i would like to get outside more with

01:07:33.780 my family what do you suggest we do and now i will draw a name from my this is our very high

01:07:42.760 tech name drawing our very my very fancy box that i have made a banshee oh

01:07:50.800 so the banshee would like to give you some advice on how to get back outside

01:07:57.800 with your family more.

01:08:01.700 This generation has become far too soft

01:08:05.480 and they don't want to go inside at all anymore. 0.99

01:08:08.560 It's absolutely terrible.

01:08:10.840 And I do be wandering about the place all the time at night

01:08:14.660 and I don't know where I'm going because it's dark all the time.

01:08:19.060 And people do be stealing my coves

01:08:21.500 and they look at my hair and they do be laughing 1.00

01:08:24.960 because we'd like to look at her over there with the really long hair.

01:08:29.020 So I think what you should do, because you can go out in the daytime,

01:08:32.900 is you should pack up the car and you should get the family out into a nice moor.

01:08:39.940 I do love a nice moor.

01:08:42.720 And go out into the moor and have a wee sniff of the heather and it'll be lovely.

01:08:50.540 But the only thing is, once it gets dark, I'm going to come out

01:08:54.280 and I'm going to scream at you 1.00

01:08:56.040 especially if you're one of the O's 1.00

01:08:58.120 or one of the Mac's because 1.00

01:08:59.780 fuck yous all and you can 1.00

01:09:02.140 all day break here. 1.00

01:09:10.460 Okay, thank you Banshee.

01:09:12.320 That was a little

01:09:13.000 aggressive but we do appreciate you.

01:09:16.300 Yeah, we do appreciate your advice.

01:09:18.940 Hopefully you understood that.

01:09:20.820 So anxious in Indiana

01:09:22.160 or whatever your name was.

01:09:24.280 we hope that this helps you we hope that the banshee who came to visit

01:09:33.840 is very helpful for you and how to get outside with your family yeah she left the window open 0.99

01:09:40.320 it's absolutely freezing in here now she just floated up here she's so rude just because 0.99

01:09:46.500 you don't need a draft excluder we do i do not know what that is he's fucking ghosts man 0.97

01:09:53.220 it's you know you put it so you don't get a draft in your door okay yeah 0.98

01:09:58.480 these banshees floating with their hair and everything yeah trying to entice people outside

01:10:04.540 yeah leaving combs on windows yeah so so rude so yeah just go out in daytime i don't think 0.55

01:10:11.260 she'll bother you otherwise go out and die but if you see her sitting on a wall daytime daytime

01:10:16.320 oh my god this is probably the first time i have not understood what you said

01:10:21.240 maybe i just can't drop the accent once i put it back yeah

01:10:26.520 so if you have any other questions burning questions that you need answered

01:10:34.280 maybe you're going to get like some uh bedroom advice from zeus maybe you're going to get some

01:10:41.120 uh swimming advice from a mermaid no you're not because we don't have that we haven't done

01:10:47.280 mermaids yet so you're not going to get mermaid advice maybe maybe you're going to get some um

01:10:52.460 grooming advice from a werewolf yeah um i'm sure they know a really good razor

01:10:57.740 i would assume so yeah although i don't think that they do much shaving

01:11:05.540 yeah if they do it would be nightmare on their plumbing yeah and right the razor burn would be

01:11:11.260 probably pretty intense my brother shout out to my brother this is like public stuff so i'm not

01:11:21.140 sharing anything that is not a surprise but my brother um he had like a photographer someone

01:11:31.340 that he knew she had to do a photo shoot for a romance novel and they wanted my brother to be

01:11:39.060 like the guy on the cover of the romance novel how does anybody do that so so he is very hairy

01:11:52.340 and had to shave his entire like abdomen and oh my god he had like the worst razor burn he was like

01:12:01.460 i'm dying oh my god i can't imagine i've had it like on my legs before when i've been like

01:12:08.880 rushing too much yeah it's bad enough on your legs i get it like all the time so it sucks but

01:12:14.800 yeah yeah so my brother was on the cover of a romance novel which we make fun of basically

01:12:21.960 anytime anybody remembers but what's even funnier is that we do um with my mom and like my step

01:12:29.320 family we do like white elephant gifting at christmas time do you have you do you know what

01:12:34.360 that is is it like chris kringle secret santa so it's like a game where like you bring like a joke

01:12:41.360 gift and you bring like a real gift oh or or one person brings either a joke gift or a real gift

01:12:49.680 or i can't remember how it works but then you like pick numbers and then somebody gets to go

01:12:54.520 into the pile and like pick out a gift and then open it and then it might be like a prank gift

01:13:00.160 or it might be just like a gift card which is something you'd actually want um but so a few

01:13:07.440 christmases ago my brother and his girlfriend put the romance novel that my brother was on the cover

01:13:13.760 of in as like a prank gift and my stepdad's dad so like my step grandpa opened it

01:13:24.300 and he was very confused

01:13:27.420 and he did not even realize that it was

01:13:29.640 my brother on the cover

01:13:30.860 and then everybody's like no that's Michael

01:13:32.780 and he was just like what

01:13:34.960 he's just like am I gonna have to read this

01:13:39.100 so that was

01:13:40.860 pretty hilarious

01:13:42.000 that's so funny oh my god

01:13:44.680 but anyway

01:13:47.420 but yeah if you have any creature

01:13:50.840 council questions

01:13:51.980 please submit them to our

01:13:54.580 Instagram or to our email

01:13:56.540 everything is linked in the link tree below

01:13:58.500 so you don't have to go hunting for things

01:14:00.520 you don't have to listen to us listing them out

01:14:02.380 again for the second time in this episode

01:14:04.500 so we just want to say

01:14:07.620 Happy Halloween from Rowan and Pine

01:14:10.240 Happy Halloween

01:14:11.300 we hope you have a really fun and safe

01:14:14.220 and wholesome

01:14:15.280 if that's what you like Halloween

01:14:17.540 if you're cool 0.98

01:14:19.960 we hope it scares the shit out of you 0.99

01:14:21.680 and we hope you do something really spooky and creepy and embrace the weirdo inside right go to 0.98

01:14:28.700 haunted house bake some pumpkin pumpkin bread if that's what you're into have you did you decide

01:14:34.620 on what you're doing for halloween me were you gonna do yeah yeah were you doing a party or

01:14:39.620 something oh no we have like there's like a billion birthdays in october and weddings and so we're

01:14:46.820 just doing parties and weddings and we're not really doing but um one of the parties that we're

01:14:53.400 going to is a costume party for like it's like a little kid's birthday so i'm dressing up like a

01:14:59.580 witch who has like crows flying around her like sitting on her shoulder i bought like little like

01:15:05.280 fake crows and then i'm dressing my baby as a crow because she will probably also be on my body 1.00

01:15:13.540 she will be attached 1.00

01:15:17.880 that's so cute

01:15:20.600 is Modardo dressing up?

01:15:21.980 I keep asking him

01:15:23.220 I'm like so what are you gonna be?

01:15:24.880 and he's like

01:15:25.260 that's exactly how he sounds

01:15:28.300 and I'm like you have to figure it out

01:15:33.120 the collective woman doing a man's voice is like 1.00

01:15:35.420 make them sound as dumb as possible 1.00

01:15:36.980 no matter what the man sounds like 0.99

01:15:40.920 yeah exactly

01:15:41.780 but yeah so

01:15:43.380 um i was like you could also be a crow and he was like and i said okay well you have

01:15:51.420 not much time left so better figure it out how about you we are doing a i don't know if you

01:15:59.500 like people who are binge listening and didn't listen it wasn't that long since they listened

01:16:04.420 to the last halloween episode i mentioned like before how there's like a it's almost like an

01:16:10.260 outdoor museum not far from me and they do like a halloween like spooky they basically turn the

01:16:17.840 entire outside place into like a like a haunted house where like people are in costumes and

01:16:22.760 they'll like jump out at you and like hide behind trees and stuff yeah we tried to go last year but

01:16:27.480 um we thought we were we were all smug and we thought we were being like really proactive and

01:16:32.200 we booked far too early and the actual like scary stuff hadn't been released yet so we booked like

01:16:37.920 a daytime thing for kids oh no like 6 6 p.m and it was fine but it was a lot of like it was like

01:16:44.460 the origins of sound you would have actually loved it it was like um people like carving turnips and

01:16:50.140 like baking soda bread and like talking about like how irish people celebrated like sound before

01:16:55.980 or like as it became like a christian like nation so it was a lot of like old traditional like

01:17:01.360 irish like crafts and stuff like that so you're saying that you didn't like it but i would are

01:17:06.460 Are you implying that I'm a child?

01:17:09.720 No, I'm implying that, like, if you went there expecting what it was, it would be great.

01:17:14.820 But we were there like, I want, like, to be scared.

01:17:18.440 You know, we wanted, like, teenage boys, like, screaming at us.

01:17:22.380 Yeah, pretty much.

01:17:23.700 So, yeah, we actually got tickets for it this year.

01:17:25.920 So we're definitely going this year.

01:17:27.880 Awesome.

01:17:28.200 And then I just saw that, like, the local, like, craft beer brewery have started doing, like, different events.

01:17:33.660 Like, they're doing a clothes swap tomorrow.

01:17:35.240 but they're doing like a halloween thing too so okay i might say that's like a different day

01:17:40.000 so yeah different little halloweeny stuff but we're not doing like parties or anything like

01:17:44.640 that people don't really have like halloween parties here like people will dress up and go

01:17:48.400 to like pubs and all that halloween parties are more of like a college thing and then after that

01:17:53.260 it sort of dies off unless people have kids yeah that's such a bummer that's one thing that i really

01:17:58.400 they do like about um like the u.s is that we celebrate halloween oh yeah like oh you guys

01:18:04.760 celebrate halloween yeah yeah everything modern about halloween we've like adopted back from you

01:18:09.720 guys so let's go this concludes our october content at rowan and pine we hope that you

01:18:17.220 enjoyed it we hope you liked getting like the extra little short episodes yeah thank you for

01:18:22.700 supporting us as we tried something a little bit different we tried some more scripted things

01:18:26.800 yeah more more scripted and serious i had one of our listeners who has become like

01:18:33.580 one of the biggest fans he was asking or he i was asking him about what he thought about the

01:18:40.460 first pinecones episode and he was like definitely different but i did like it so

01:18:44.760 that's good yeah yeah and i had a lot of fun like playing around with music and sound effects and

01:18:51.320 stuff like that um if it ever becomes too much please tell us it's just a sound effect like

01:18:57.360 every two seconds yeah yeah um so yeah hope you learned some stuff hope we helped you get into

01:19:05.480 the spooky mood hope your halloween is great and um yeah i've been neve and i'm emily 0.87

01:19:12.920 and fuck yeah folklore fuck yeah folklore and happy halloween happy halloween 0.99

01:19:19.000 is that the is that the banshee oh my god she's back shit 1.00

01:19:41.920 i'll try and channel some sort of irish accent 0.98

01:19:44.760 you have an irish accent i know but my accent doesn't my accent doesn't fit

01:19:51.480 oh my god do the one that you use when you talk on the phone with your dad

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Rowan & Pine: A Feminist Folklore & Mythology Podcast - October 31, 2023

Episode Twenty-Four： HALLOWEEN Crossroads Folklore - My dog Shart

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