00:02:22.060I also love it. You know, the Hugh Hefner antics never end. Also, can I just say thank you for, if folks haven't listened to our Hugh Hefner conversation, I got a lot out of it. And thank you for, like, I don't know, I feel like it was a meaty one and people should listen to it. And yeah, I'm grateful that we had this space.
00:02:44.620Yeah, I know. And of course, we stretched it out very long. We still left out so many things at the end that we do want to come back with maybe like a conversation about where Playboy and magazines that are today. And that will be a later conversation. I swear to God, it's later.
00:03:01.060because there's so much and it is so deep and like having going through all of that
00:03:06.920that conversation that it was kind of at one point like this is abruptly ending
00:03:10.380and annie had to fix us because she's like y'all we can't do it like that because that's too much
00:03:15.280but it was so much there was no like bits of it i was just like okay this is an easy
00:03:21.840easygoing part there's no easygoing part no yeah it's so true and like what what a
00:03:29.560But I don't know, I've been listening to a lot of nostalgia podcasts that are like, oh, remember when this? Remember when that? Like, you know, you're wrong about things like that. And it's like, what a weird time for the culture. What a weird thing that we all experienced together. Like it was normal and it really was not.
00:03:45.720right i'm wondering though because we are aging slowly like slowly aging y'all slower than me
00:03:52.780it's fine it's great uh but like looking back on things a lot of this conversation is because
00:03:57.620things are revamping um and we're seeing the younger generation doing their thing similar to
00:04:02.960what we already know and putting their own like style to it but watching it is kind of like huh
00:04:08.360that's not as original as you think it's cute and i like your version but just know that this was
00:04:14.020there before. But at the same time, I'm like, I wonder how many times the people before us also
00:04:18.940felt that way. We're just coming into that same like generational glitch of like, yeah, there it
00:04:24.060is. This is why now I understand that the older generation would just look at us kind of funny
00:04:27.920and be like, what are you doing? This has been done. Anyway, I've had those moments lately.
00:04:34.560I had one watching a group of like very young people wearing the oversized jeans that are so
00:04:41.260long that that you are stepping on them and it was like a damp day and i was like oh i remember
00:04:46.200that feeling of like the the jinko jeans that went over the back the heels of your sneaker and would
00:04:51.920get wet and gross yes yuck you're gonna want the skinny jeans again one day yeah like yeah oh y'all
00:04:57.280are back there again okay cool let's see how that goes i just have to put in here and i'm not going
00:05:02.260to provide any more context than this but jinko jeans are very important in my dungeons and
00:05:07.360dragons campaign that sounds about right can i ask a follow-up or no no no no i think my i think
00:05:15.660peaches has something to do with this samantha's dog peaches is very much a inspiration in the
00:05:21.080campaign yeah well i'll i'll say this as the i run the game sometimes you got to go with what
00:05:27.520the players are doing and we're all from kind of the same generation that millennial level of like
00:05:33.900Yeah. Anyway, we really appreciate you joining us today, Bridget. The topic you have for us
00:05:44.020is one that I admit is giving me a lot of anxiety. But I'm very glad that you're here to talk about
00:05:50.020it because it's so, so important. And there's a lot to break down. So let's go ahead and get into
00:05:55.420it. Yeah, I feel the same anxiety and angst that you're feeling, I'm feeling. And that is that we
00:06:01.900have an upcoming election. I've been doing this thing where I'm saying, I'm not going to even
00:06:07.880pay attention to the election until we're like 100 days out. Generally for me around then that
00:06:13.300I'm like, I got to join a campaign. But I think like I need to confront the fact that we're in
00:06:19.280an election year. And it's not 2024. It's not just an election year. It is probably the election
00:06:25.420year, not just here in the United States, but also globally. I did not know this. Around the world,
00:06:30.240more voters in history will vote this year with at least 64 countries and the European Union
00:06:36.060having elections. Combined, this is about 49 percent of people worldwide are meant to be
00:06:42.520holding national elections in 2024. So it's a very big deal. The stakes are high. You are not wrong
00:06:48.060to be feeling a little anxiety or a little angst or a little uncertainty around it, Annie. But given
00:06:54.120all that, I think it really makes sense to think about whether or not elections are fair to women
00:07:01.680who are running for office. Obviously, this is like a global issue, but right here in the United
00:07:07.040States, things are also very bleak. And it's important because we can't have like an equitable,
00:07:12.840functional democracy if women are not able to run for office without facing identity-motivated
00:07:17.860attacks simply for showing up and daring to be women yes and you've talked about this a lot
00:07:24.620before and i think it's so important because if you're considering running for office um as a
00:07:31.520woman or any intersection of marginalized identity that's just like an extra thing to deal with and
00:07:37.740like your family has to deal with like people who know you has to deal with and i can't honestly
00:07:42.540blame people for being like you know what i don't want to deal with that and that's a huge problem
00:08:02.400And so if you want to be a poll worker for your elections in your town, or if you want
00:08:07.420to speak up at a town hall meeting in your town, just these everyday, not exciting bits
00:08:13.900of democracy, these everyday ways that folks should be able to show up and make their voices
00:08:18.500heard and participate in their civic and public life, women and people of color and other
00:08:23.140marginalized people are facing attacks just for doing that. And, you know, it makes me sad because
00:08:28.520I've seen very clear research that suggests that women are shying away from public office and
00:08:36.640shying away from this kind of civic participation because of these attacks. And on the one hand,
00:08:41.960I get it? Like women are smart enough to know if I'm not protected. And when I do this, if I have1.00
00:08:46.120to pay lots and lots and lots of money to protect myself in a way that my male counterparts just
00:08:52.080don't even have to think about, I don't want to do that. And so as much as I want to have the
00:08:56.880representative democracy that we all deserve, I understand why more and more marginalized people
00:09:02.600are checking out and being like, yeah, I'm just not going to sign up for this. Like, why would
00:09:05.580you. I get it. Yeah. And I think one of the reasons for my anxiety, a lot of our anxiety,
00:09:13.200as you said, you have been on here to talk about it being like disinformation and these attacks
00:09:17.500and misinformation. It feels like it's gotten worse for a lot of reasons. Is that in my head?
00:09:26.300I am sorry to say it is not in your head. You know, today in 2024, women in politics and1.00
00:09:32.440positions of power are the targets of just overwhelming volumes of gender disinformation1.00
00:09:38.400and online abuse in forms of character assassinations, fake stories, and humiliating or
00:09:43.640sexually charged images. Something that is new is the proliferation of AI-enabled disinformation,
00:09:49.880visual disinformation, so things like cheap fakes, deep fakes, all of that kind of stuff
00:09:53.360that I think we really hadn't had to wade through before like we are now. And I also just think,
00:10:00.720I mean, this is just my opinion. I think that the cultural landscape around these kinds of attacks have changed. I think that we're in a place where people are really willing to believe things that adhere to their worldviews already.
00:10:18.220And so if you see a piece of disinformation or an AI-generated deepfake, even if there are all the things that you're like, that's probably not true, if it aligns to your worldview, anecdotally, I believe that I've seen more and more people being unwilling to challenge things that are clearly not true if it aligns to their worldview.
00:10:39.120And we're talking about misogyny and sexism. So much of that is wrapped up in how people think about the world. And so if you already are somebody who is prone to think that women are untrustworthy or women are incapable or women are not qualified or not good leaders, when you see something that confirms that, even if it's like obviously AI manipulated or something are not true, I do think here in 2024, people are going to be willing to be like, oh, yeah, that tracks, you know, because it aligns to this like deeply held idea and attitude about women.
00:12:33.820It is also people right here in the United States, you have the front runner for the Republican Party engaging in identity-based disinformation attacks all the time, right?
00:12:45.040And so I think the problem has gotten more involved, and I think there are more parties involved.
00:12:51.960And I also think it's been more normalized, right?
00:12:53.920Like, I think, like, the idea that someone would just lie about a candidate and tell a lie that is only works because it is supported by bias or unfair attitudes or lies about somebody's identity.
00:13:08.800I think that we're in a place where people are not calling that what it is.
00:13:12.940And so the whole problem has sort of, like, gotten worse.
00:13:16.360Yes. Yes. And I think like when you do call it what it is, we've just become so like, we don't trust anybody else's data. We don't trust where they're getting their sources. That's what my experience has been when I get in fights with people. They're always like, where's your source? And I'll tell them and they'll be like, no.
00:14:02.000Because, and I guess that's the thing about people with these entrenched worldviews.
00:14:06.460But it's very hard to have conversations with them in some cases because it's like, oh, well, here's a, like, reputable source.
00:14:16.300And it's like, oh, well, the source is wrong.
00:14:18.520Here's why you can't trust whatever source.
00:14:20.660And the problem is, is really that, like, a lot of these institutions and sources really have given people legit reasons to be sus about them and to question them.
00:14:30.380And so it just makes it that much more complicated where you're like, you know, well, yes, like, I don't want to go out here and cape for, like, the CDC or whatever, but, like, we have to start somewhere.
00:14:42.140We have to have, like, a baseline understanding of just the reality that we're all sharing.
00:17:58.900combined with algorithmic preferences toward incendiary content, right?
00:18:03.360Like, a whole body of research tells us that social media platforms, places like Twitter, Reddit, whatever, they really do prioritize content that is inflammatory, right?
00:18:14.640And so if you are somebody who wants to tell an inflammatory lie that is identity-based about somebody, that is going to get preferential treatment on algorithms.
00:18:25.680And then the last prong is what you were talking about, Annie, just good old-fashioned everyday sexism, right?
00:18:32.820Just the general suspicion around women, particularly women of color and Black women, suspicion around our motivations, our abilities, our, like, motivations to lead.
00:20:12.220We're talking about you can't lead because you're a woman.1.00
00:20:14.880I am suspicious of your motivations because you're a woman.0.98
00:20:17.880That's a different thing that men in public office simply do not have to deal with.0.98
00:20:22.900So let's look at some of the some of the data around this.
00:20:25.760So discrediting and disabusing women candidates in the 2022 midterm election echoed these patterns that really took shape in 2020 when racist and sexist and ableist abuse was hurled at candidates like Representative Ilhan Omar and Senator Tammy Duckworth.
00:20:41.780when multiple secretaries of state faced harassment
00:21:29.560Unless we die, they're not going to listen.0.65
00:21:32.400It's not an actual threat, which is the most absurd thing that they need to see it end in violence in order to give credit to what happened.
00:21:41.880And that's sort of my point of this whole conversation, Sam, is that we shouldn't accept that we have to wait until somebody is dead or in the hospital to have these conversations, right?
00:21:53.240Like, media platforms amplified violence and abuse against Nancy Pelosi, and somebody broke into her house and attacked her husband with a hammer, and he was hospitalized, right?
00:22:05.860Like, it shouldn't take something like that to be like, oh, wait, is this a real thing?
00:22:35.860So, like, yeah, like, like, it's a global problem, but the problem is unique in the United States.
00:22:41.900And especially given that we might have two women running for vice president in 2024, the way that we talk about gender and leadership and the way that we the kind of conversations that we normalize and tolerate around women and leadership, we are going to have to sort of get that straight.
00:22:58.300Right. Because it's certainly going to be something that comes up.
00:23:01.440In fact, I would say that we've already seen this when it comes to attacks on Vice President Harris.
00:23:35.860If you're living in a world where you're getting constant threats of, like, death and violence and sexual violence, it's hard not to think, like, one of these people might actually do something.
00:23:49.100Yeah, especially in a country where guns are not really that difficult to come by, in a country that normalizes and amplifies this kind of violent rhetoric against women public officials.
00:24:01.380Like, the conditions are perfect for that kind of violence to easily move from online violence to offline violence, just like we saw on January 6th, right?
00:24:10.580Like, I'm not, like, pulling this out of nowhere.
00:24:33.420So abusive messages accounted for more than 15%
00:24:36.180of those directed at every female lawmaker analyzed,0.99
00:24:39.140compared with around 5 to 10% of male candidates.1.00
00:24:43.120Women of color are particularly likely to be targeted.
00:24:46.080And this piece, I think, is really important.
00:24:48.040So male politicians who are ethnic minorities
00:24:50.620are not more vulnerable than their white counterparts.
00:24:54.000For instance, Cory Booker and Tim Scott, who are both Black men, got similar levels of abuse to white male candidates.
00:25:00.320However, the attacks against them were more likely to be around race, ISD found.
00:25:06.620So abuse directed toward women is more likely to be about their gender than abuse targeting men.
00:25:13.020Abuse targeting men was more generalized and focused on their political stances,
00:25:17.160while the messages directed at women are more likely to focus on things like their appearance or, like, general competence.
00:25:23.780Female Democrats received 10 times more abusive comments than their male counterparts on Facebook,
00:25:28.840and Republican women received twice as many abusive comments as Republican men.0.71
00:25:32.920So it's one of those situations where women of color and Black women are really
00:25:37.640shouldering the majority of this burden, but it's not the same along gender and race lines,
00:25:44.600right? It is very different if you are criticizing somebody because of their political
00:25:49.600stances or policy versus if you're criticizing somebody because of the way they look or because
00:25:54.280of like a like a general suspicion of who they are based on their identity like those things are
00:26:00.580very different and as this report from the institute for strategic dialogue points out
00:26:04.700everybody is not shouldering that burden equally yes and it's it's very frustrating for a lot of
00:26:13.200reasons but as going back to like the whole like show me your sources thing it's really hard to
00:26:19.340combat, right? It's really hard to fight against this.
00:26:27.100It really is. Like, this is work that I have done professionally during various times of
00:26:32.200my career. And, you know, being in the space, we talk a lot about things like debunking,
00:26:37.380which I do think has its place. However, it's a pretty frustrating endeavor because it's
00:26:42.000like you're playing whack-a-mole, right? Like, I used to be the person who would have
00:26:46.220meetings with Facebook or Twitter or Reddit and be like, oh, well, here's a bunch of examples of
00:26:51.760content that violates your terms of service and seems to be violent threats or attacks on public
00:26:57.900officials or women running for office. And they'd be like, OK, we'll take those down. It's like you
00:27:01.560can't do that forever. Right. Like so it is a frustrating thing. And I think, you know, you need
00:27:08.400more than just debunking to combat this stuff. You know, gender disinformation, I don't feel like
00:27:13.940It can really be addressed through just fact-checking or debunking.
00:27:18.320These attacks are often based in character assassination or just unverifiable information.
00:27:24.300And so when that is magnified by algorithmic preferences of platforms that privilege fake and outrageous content to enhance profit, we have a real problem.
00:27:39.940It's a lot of problems all rolled into one big ball that, like, playing whack-a-mole on individual pieces of content just ain't going to cut it, right?
00:27:47.320And so I would say that this really needs to be combated by changing social media platform policies in the long term and also a cultural understanding of what's going on, right?
00:28:00.980So not just being like, oh, well, it's just a platform problem, really understanding the role that like the way that we're all thinking about and talking about women who run for office and other marginalized people who run for office really does play a role in pushing back against this.
00:28:15.900I mean, a part of the conversation is that the reason feminism is important, the reason intersectional feminism is important is to undo the misogyny and the conversations that happen that allow this to start with, that allow this type of rhetoric to begin with.
00:28:31.460Like in this conversation, it's odd because I always go back to thinking how immediately like when a man specifically wants to threaten a woman, it's always some kind of sexual violence.
00:28:44.280And we know when it comes to war crimes, that's one of the number one things that is used within these wars that are often so like awful.
00:28:51.860We start thinking about it like the level of sexual violence that happened to show power and control.
00:28:56.200And all of this has to do with the misogynistic take on power.0.96
00:29:01.460And it's kind of one of those questions of, like, how do you even begin, especially when it's so deeply rooted that any almost, especially, like, I'm going to say this, like, uneducated, ignorant people, that's their go-to.0.99
00:29:15.760Like, that's the first thing is, like, you deserve to be, like, raped.0.99
00:29:29.320I'm sure that a lot of people listening.1.00
00:29:30.380How many of us have had some creep say, like, I hope you get raped, you deserve to be raped?0.99
00:29:36.000Like, the fact that that is hurled at us as a threat when we speak up and use our voices, I think that that illustrates exactly what you're talking about, Sam.0.99
00:29:46.960Yeah. So what what can we do then to address this online, perhaps?
00:29:59.140So the first thing I would say is really understanding the kinds of attacks that stick and letting that kind of inform your thinking about how you respond, right?
00:30:08.560Because not all of these tactics are created equal.
00:30:11.920So let's look at the ones that are actually effective at impacting voting behavior.
00:30:16.120Attacks that seem to pack the biggest punch on voter behavior focus on character, things like trust, qualifications, likability, and control.
00:30:24.160With a constant backdrop of these like sexualized attacks that we were just talking about.
00:30:28.480So you can sort of think of these attacks as manifesting in these candidates are untrustworthy.1.00
00:30:35.040So women are liars or hypocrites or too ambitious, right?0.99
00:30:39.680That like the very fact that this woman is running for office means that there is something off about her.1.00
00:30:44.980Like you can't trust somebody who wants it too much, right?
00:30:48.080And then meanwhile, it's like, oh, so did like the male candidate just like accidentally fill out the paperwork to run and just like accidentally found himself on a podium?
00:30:56.640And those attacks really work because trust is obviously a major factor in vote choice.1.00
00:31:03.140Another one is that women are unqualified.1.00
00:31:05.480Women are stupid, weak, incapable, inexperienced, right?1.00
00:31:08.820So historically, women must meet a higher threshold to prove their qualifications.1.00
00:31:15.640Another is that women are just unlikable.0.99
00:31:23.760This is one that, like, you see a lot with women of color.1.00
00:31:26.640you know, they're angry or like never satisfied or like, oh, what a sour puss. No one likes them.1.00
00:31:32.980They have annoying personalities. Like women leaders are expected to be agreeable.1.00
00:31:37.200I remember when Elizabeth Warren was running for president, one of the attacks that her campaign1.00
00:31:42.120really saw a lot is that she was like too prepared and would evoke plans for too many things. So if0.80
00:31:50.080you asked her a question, she'd be like, oh, here's my plan on that. Or like, here's my policy
00:31:53.520paper on that. And the people were like, don't like it. I can't get a beer with her.
00:32:01.480I mean, it really I mean, like if you're if you are a woman who like dominated and led the group0.98
00:32:08.740project in class, I don't need to tell you that sometimes when you're really good and really
00:32:13.480qualified and know what you're doing, that will be seen as an attack on you or like used against
00:32:20.460you to be like, I just don't like her. Even though she's like, did all the work on this project that
00:32:24.280I would have gotten an F without her. I don't like it. And lastly, that they're uncontrollable.
00:32:30.060They're too angry, too crazy, too hormonal, too evil. All of that, that they're too whatever
00:32:36.780to be voted into office. And you can really see how these are like things that kind of there's
00:32:42.580really no way to win because they are sexually promiscuous or they're un-effable, right? So
00:32:49.760it's like oh if you're too sexual or not sexual enough both of those are like attacks so it's like
00:32:56.160what are you supposed to do like there's no way to win right a lot of these are very they're
00:33:01.240conflicting with each other it's like you're too ambitious but you don't know what you're doing
00:33:04.600like it's like too okay i came prepared i guess that's bad too okay cool absolutely and so like
00:33:14.040And all of these attacks work and they stick despite being like contradictory or like seemingly really silly.
00:33:22.140They work because of this larger system of unchecked misogyny, misogynoir and bias against women that is worse for marginalized women.
00:33:30.400And so the reason why these are effective at actually, you know, not just existing out there, but actually impacting voting behavior is because of this larger cultural climate of bias against women and marginalized people.
00:33:43.160Absolutely. And I know a lot of us have experienced that just in our lives, just seen it.
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00:35:42.040Do you have any tips on how we can counter this or fight back against this?
00:35:49.000Totally. So the biggest one, I think, is just to share positive, accurate content about women's participation in civic and political life.
00:35:57.460You know, I would say the most effective form of inoculation against this is not like debunking each specific individual attack.
00:36:05.600It is demonstrating that women belong in political life, that women are good leaders.
00:36:10.980So really demonstrating women as trustworthy, qualified and competent, that's the kind of content that we need to really correct the narrative and protect women leaders and emphasize the need for women and marginalized people's place in political involvement.
00:36:24.460So take all of that to mean that probably the worst thing that you can do if you're trying to combat this kind of thing is to directly respond or engage with individual attacks because that could amplify them or legitimize them.
00:36:37.000This is something that I think is really tough and I have to check myself on because when I'm scrolling social media and I see like a lie about a woman, my first instinct is to reply and be like, that's not true, blah, blah, blah.
00:36:49.740But because of the way that algorithms work, you actually might be amplifying that because the algorithm is like, oh, you're engaging with this.
00:40:00.680I just think that they're like, oh, well, sexism ended back in whatever.
00:40:06.240And like, it's just not a topic that I think impacts our lives anymore when it so impacts our lives. And I guess that's one of the reasons why it's so insidious and why it takes such intentionality to combat it, because these things are so ingrained that people might not even realize the ways that they are contributing to it.
00:40:24.120Yep. I had a guy tell me there was no sexism in the 2016 election. And I was like, you do know what I do for a living, right? It's like, I just don't see it. Okay, cool. I'm going to leave because I'm going to get real bad.
00:40:38.800but just I don't agree and a part of that is this idea we shouldn't talk about it
00:40:47.720or we should ignore it which is not really helpful always no there I mean I'm guilty of
00:40:56.800this too there used to be this attitude that you know the only way to counter these unfair attacks
00:41:01.760was to ignore them right like when they go low we go high like don't don't mention it like it'll
00:41:08.380go away. I hate to say that that is really a page from an old, outdated playbook. Research
00:41:13.680really suggests now that ignoring these attacks just doesn't make them go away. It just allows
00:41:18.040them to fester, get amplified and become legitimized and become part of our political
00:41:23.680discourse. And it can also kind of backfire for women who are running for office because1.00
00:41:29.600candidates want to see like strength and backbone and a candidate meeting the moment. And so if1.00
00:41:35.160you're like, I'm not going to respond to that, that can sort of backfire because it's like,
00:41:39.140oh, well, why isn't she meeting the moment? So that doesn't mean that like a woman candidate0.99
00:41:44.120needs to get mired down in the bog of like defending herself against unfair lies and0.99
00:41:50.980attacks. But it's really about emphasizing your accomplishments and qualifications in a way that
00:41:57.140corrects harmful narratives without repeating those narratives and without legitimizing those
00:42:01.500narratives. It's like a little bit of a tightrope walk to do it correctly. And again, like, I just
00:42:06.400want to emphasize that it's something that we should not have to do. Like, certainly male1.00
00:42:10.880candidates are not having to prepare counter messaging in this way to be like, well, I got to
00:42:15.160respond to this attack, but in a way that emphasizes my values and doesn't legitimize it.
00:42:19.740And also like, it's a minefield that not everybody is asked to wade through. So I just want to
00:42:25.640acknowledge that, that we should not have to deal with this. However, I have seen a lot of candidates
00:42:30.200who use these kinds of unfair identity-based attacks
00:42:34.240as an opportunity to really create community
00:43:07.080And so that's a really interesting way how she responds to an unfair sexist attack0.78
00:43:12.140that attacks her gender and makes it about all the other women and girls0.98
00:43:16.620who are watching this kind of garbage and being like,1.00
00:43:19.340don't we want a climate that supports these women and girls to be in politics?1.00
00:43:24.260These kinds of comments go against that.
00:43:26.700And they're not going to stop us, right?
00:43:28.000So, like, I have seen candidates that really challenge this in some unique ways.
00:43:34.460Yeah. And going back to your point of, like, we shouldn't have to be doing this at all.
00:43:39.820And this is a topic I think about a lot in terms of so many, so many things.
00:43:46.640But it's not just women who are being targeted that should have to speak up or say something.
00:43:53.580I'm so glad that you brought that up because, I mean, how many of us have been in a situation where somebody says something or does something and you're like, oh, I don't want to be the one that has to be like, well, that's actually offensive or like, that's actually not a cool thing to say in the workplace.
00:44:10.860And it really shouldn't just be on the person who is targeted to respond to this because challenging a sexist climate really does take all of us to speak up.
00:44:19.760So a good example of this is Bonnie Willis, which I think you all might know.
00:44:25.640Do you all, I feel like in Atlanta, she might be somebody who's on y'all's radar.0.98
00:44:29.520As well as just kick ass in the primary.0.96
00:44:42.940Really showing how Black women are attacked and undermined1.00
00:44:45.920and how that is a strategy to undermine democratic process.1.00
00:44:49.000So that was it was a really good example. On February 15th, Willis took the witness stand and right wing actors, including Fox News, surprise, surprise, they circulated this meme that suggested that she had worn her dress backwards.
00:45:04.200So this is a caption that Fox News put out.
00:45:07.140Bonnie said to take the hot seat again after day one packed with yelling, a wink and surprise backward dress.1.00
00:45:14.040So basically they were saying this black woman is so stupid and incompetent that can you believe she wore her dress backward?1.00
00:45:20.920What an idiot. Who would ever believe in her leadership? Right.1.00
00:45:23.520Like that was the substance of the attack.
00:45:25.600However, a guy on TikTok delegitimized that attack that had broken into mainstream media by pointing out in a TikTok that, like, actually, here's the dress and she was wearing it correctly, right?
00:45:36.960So this was, like, nonsense that a fairly mainstream news outlet amplified.
00:45:44.220It's like she's wearing it perfectly correctly.
00:45:46.680While he did that, other institutions put out positive counter content, avoiding the direct attacks while emphasizing Willis' leadership and qualifications in order to target them.
00:45:56.140So it was this, like, two-pronged thing where the TikTok messenger was able to be like, look how ridiculous this attack is, y'all, while other institutions pushed out positive messaging about Willis' leadership.
00:46:08.480And so, really, it should not be on just her, this person targeted, to respond to these garbage lies about her character and her values and her leadership.0.83
00:46:17.920It really takes a village to create the culture where sexism and misogyny is not able to thrive and take root in this way.
00:46:25.720Yes, and I would like to say Elena backed her.1.00
00:46:27.720Like I said, she killed it in the primaries.
00:46:33.880At this point, like, of course, you know, when it comes to judicial systems in the South, it can get ugly. But when you have a case like this and you realize you have someone who is firm and we love it, like it's it's representing what we want to see in Atlanta, which is we're not taking from you. So move on.
00:46:54.220yeah and it's also so many of these attacks that we're seeing right now
00:47:02.020are also distractions from like real things we should be talking about and it's i mean like
00:47:09.720she's wearing her dress backwards it does have these as you said what they're trying to signal
00:47:15.800is she is incompetent but it's also just so like okay but it's really important that we talk about
00:47:23.740this because we are in an election year, extremely important election year, and all of this stuff
00:47:29.040is very dangerous. Yeah. And I think like if you're listening and you're like, well, I don't
00:47:35.700like Willis. I don't like Harris. I don't like Pelosi. That is your right. However, you should
00:47:43.160be more than anybody wanting to have a climate where we are able to talk about these leaders
00:47:48.820and their qualifications and their records in a way that is fair and honest, right?0.97
00:47:52.920Like, when the climate is cluttered up with all kinds of garbage, sexist lies and attacks,0.98
00:48:00.140you can't actually have an honest conversation about why these leaders are failing us0.99
00:48:05.120or why these leaders are not failing us.
00:48:07.180It just creates a dynamic where, like, we're not having a conversation about the actual thing.
00:48:12.340We're talking about backward dresses or whether or not somebody's face looks weird, right?
00:48:17.880Like, we're just not having a substantive conversation.
00:48:19.940And it does not just threaten the women who are targeted.
00:48:24.160Undermining women leaders is part of a larger anti-democracy agenda, right?0.96
00:48:28.120It is not just about these individual women.1.00
00:48:30.320It is about threatening our democracy.0.66
00:48:32.160And as you were saying earlier, Annie, like, it is unfortunate that it is very effective
00:48:37.020because people might not always be able to see the ways that sexism and misogyny and
00:48:41.800misogynoir really threaten the fabric of our democracy.
00:48:45.260It is this insidious thing that can operate in plain sight, even amongst people who think of themselves as people who want to protect democracy. And so we really need to get a handle on it. We need to talk about it honestly. And we need to listen to the people who are targeted and come forward to talk about what they have dealt with just for trying to serve their country or be part of public or civic life.
00:49:06.200absolutely absolutely and i think i'm sure we'll be talking about the election
00:49:11.720for several episodes um but it's also i i would say sadly i've seen it in plenty of my
00:49:20.180women friends who are like well i don't want to vote for her because they're0.58
00:49:24.160i'm honestly it sounds like i'm scared to vote for her because0.97
00:49:27.160what if she's bad or like i'm hearing all this stuff about her and she must be bad um0.96
00:49:33.360So it's a really, really toxic environment for like actual conversations and democracy. So.0.86
00:49:41.900Yeah. I mean, I remember like I have felt that like I have been I have been like, oh, I'm worried about having XYZ marginalized person in public office because we have this insidious culture that it's like, well, we tried one out and it didn't work.0.77