There Are No Girls on the Internet - BlackOutDay2020

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00:01:19.460 I survived nine months in captivity, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive

00:01:26.780 what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files.

00:01:32.380 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled,

00:01:38.200 and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

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00:01:55.500 There Are No Girls on the Internet is a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.

00:02:03.620 I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. 0.61

00:02:06.400 in recent weeks we've seen demands for racial justice reach an unignorable roar 0.54

00:02:13.580 and a lot of it has played out online if you were scrolling instagram back on june 2nd

00:02:18.740 you probably saw people posting a black square as a way to pause normal social media chatter

00:02:23.400 and make room for voices calling for change and today july 7th is blackout day 2020 a boycott

00:02:29.460 campaign urging people not to spend any money unless it's at a black-owned business but where

00:02:34.100 did these initiatives come from, and how did we get here? The story about that is confusing

00:02:38.280 and familiar at the same time. It's a story about how easy it is to erase Black women 0.98

00:02:42.560 online, even as we're supposedly trying to make room for our voices and affirming that

00:02:46.620 our lives matter. More on that in a moment. But first, let's go to Mars.

00:02:51.300 my name is marissa mars sebastian i go by just mars um i am a writer an author and a social

00:03:08.140 media manager um i just say that i like to have fun on the internet and crack jokes

00:03:13.620 girl-centric web games like neopets and polypocket cemented mars's lifelong love of being online

00:03:19.440 And when she discovered all the cool, weird nerds congregating on the social media platform Tumblr, it was so affirming that she describes it as a rebirth.

00:03:27.980 Being a nerd on Tumblr is really like my second, I call it like my second Internet rebirth, like because I was on the Internet as a little one.

00:03:38.720 But really joining Tumblr gave me a true sense of what.

00:03:44.800 Like having friendships that were Internet based were like.

00:03:48.800 And so that's always been my favorite part.

00:03:50.900 Mars was on Tumblr in 2015, when just like today, police and state violence against Black people was impossible to ignore.

00:03:57.760 She and her friend Tavon Green decided Black folks just needed a break.

00:04:02.260 We were in a societal moment where a lot of us as young people were reckoning with what anti-Blackness really looks like, specifically anti-Black violence and police violence.

00:04:13.620 We were dealing with the fallout and the realities of Trayvon Martin and Mike Brown, Eric Garner, and Sandra Bland, and things were heavy.

00:04:25.960 Conversations about what it means to be Black in America were so, so heavy.

00:04:29.860 And he was like, you know, we just needed to have fun.

00:04:32.880 We were like, what if we just have fun? 0.77

00:04:34.580 And because Black Tumblr was already sort of this like nebulous pocket where a lot of Black people were creating content and chatting and having conversations around all of this stuff, we're like, what if we just, you know, took a break?

00:04:53.020 And so he proposed the idea of just taking a bunch of selfies and posting just so that you can feel beautiful.

00:04:58.500 Everybody wants to flex.

00:04:59.480 Everybody wants to feel celebrated and loved.

00:05:01.940 And so we're like, just love on each other.

00:05:04.240 share each other's pictures, and, you know, we'll take it from there.

00:05:08.600 And so we really did not intend for it to get as large as it did,

00:05:14.400 much less jump from Tumblr to Twitter to Instagram

00:05:19.080 and sort of have this lasting impact that's lingered since.

00:05:24.720 But yeah, that's really what we set out to do with it,

00:05:27.080 was just to provide an oasis, a space where we could just celebrate.

00:05:31.220 it. They had clearly tapped into something people were craving, and Blackout Day was a viral smash.

00:05:37.480 Twitter analytics service Topsy said the hashtag Blackout Day was one of the top trending hashtags

00:05:42.140 on Twitter and Facebook, with over 58,000 tweets by noon alone. It sparked offshoots for other

00:05:48.040 Black folks to show up in their online communities, like Blackout K-pop for Korean pop music fans,

00:05:52.880 or Blackout Eyed for Black Muslims. Mars was part of creating something really special online,

00:05:58.960 But as it took off, it was a struggle to make sure she was credited with the very thing that she had helped create.

00:06:03.880 So let me rewind.

00:06:06.480 When Blackout Day really started to pop off, it started to spread all over Tumblr.

00:06:11.980 People were really excited about it.

00:06:13.420 You know, the bigger things get, the harder it is to, you know, trace the origin.

00:06:19.160 Um, and when our third team member, uh, Newkirk joined us, he actually was writing down, like

00:06:27.800 he, he, he created a master post, um, that was like, you know, this is what blackout

00:06:32.340 day is.

00:06:33.280 And like, this is like, this is the guy who's doing it, yada, yada.

00:06:35.960 And I actually had to go and ask him to add my name to that post and say like, by the

00:06:42.680 way, like, I am also a person who is doing this.

00:06:46.700 like this would not be named blackout day if it hadn't been like it had it would not be blackout

00:06:51.420 if it wasn't like for me because the like you'll see on the original post like and I had to and I

00:06:55.640 pulled receipts and I sent him the post because he asked for receipts to prove I wasn't lying

00:07:00.700 um and then yeah and so that was pain point number one and then pain point number two came really

00:07:07.280 quickly when we went viral and places like BuzzFeed were picking it up and it was like oh my gosh

00:07:11.740 was such a huge deal. And I was actually in my dorm room because I was still at NYU. I was a

00:07:17.520 senior just about to graduate. And I was in my dorm room, like giving media training, like flying

00:07:24.740 off the cuff. Like, this is what I think you should say to the two guys while they were

00:07:30.580 interviewed. And like, that became pain point number two, right? And I don't necessarily fault

00:07:37.560 them for that it's the the it's the responsibility of people who are doing reporting to try to do

00:07:42.760 their due diligence um but that became pain point number two and then that lasted for months like

00:07:50.120 people were like who are you whenever we wanted to like get together and try again and do another

00:07:54.560 thing i would speak semi you know authoritatively on something and they'd be like but are you who

00:08:01.920 are you like what do you have to do with blackout what and i was like what why am i the only one

00:08:07.420 getting this smoke? Like, why, like, aren't the guys, like, why aren't you, like, roasting them

00:08:12.280 and grilling them for, like, there were accusations of me trying to, like, bandwagon. There were

00:08:18.380 accusations of me trying to scam. Like, I'm just some random girl who doesn't really know that.

00:08:23.500 Like, it was just so weird. Okay, so this is where the story gets kind of difficult to keep straight,

00:08:28.160 and it's a really good example of how everything online can sort of be turned into one massive

00:08:32.080 digital game of telephone. Mars' initial blackout day, the call to populate social media with images

00:08:37.380 of Black folks that I just told you about 0.87

00:08:38.920 started in 2015.

00:08:41.100 Last month, Brianna Ajiman and Jamila Thomas,

00:08:45.140 two Black women music executives, 0.98

00:08:47.060 created what they called 1.00

00:08:48.160 the Show Must Be Paused campaign,

00:08:50.480 asking people to take a beat

00:08:51.780 for an honest, reflective, and productive conversation

00:08:54.340 about what actions we need to collectively take

00:08:56.740 to support the Black community.

00:08:58.720 It's not entirely clear how,

00:09:00.360 but their call morphed with calls

00:09:01.900 for people to post a Black square on social media,

00:09:04.440 which people then talked about as Blackout Tuesday.

00:09:07.120 But posting a black square was never in their original call to action.

00:09:10.580 On their website, the Women's Campaign asks are for folks to donate to bail funds

00:09:15.120 and educate themselves about anti-racist resources.

00:09:18.680 They never asked for anyone to post a black square. 0.61

00:09:21.360 And as well-meaning as it might have been to post a black square on Instagram

00:09:25.220 showing solidarity with black lives, many critiqued the action as performative at best

00:09:30.200 and at worse, potentially blacking out the Black Lives Matter hashtag,

00:09:34.080 a tag that was once full of anti-racist resources and protest information.

00:09:38.720 So clearly there was some confusion.

00:09:41.240 And in case that's not confusing enough,

00:09:44.020 Calvin Marder announced another campaign called Blackout Day 2020, 0.87

00:09:47.920 a boycott asking that people not spend any money today unless it's at a Black-owned business.

00:09:55.180 Atlanta rapper T.I. promoted it on his social media,

00:09:58.660 which led to media outlets incorrectly reporting that he was the originator of Blackout Day 2020.

00:10:04.080 Like I said, a massive game of internet telephone and a real clusterfuck for Mars to deal with after the success of her 2015 Blackout Day.

00:10:13.060 Five years later, I, you know, I'm getting messages like, hey, do you know that there's a guy on Facebook with like thousands of like Facebook followers on this page that's called Blackout Day 2020?

00:10:26.280 And I'm like, what? Who? And then, you know, the media then crediting that movement to TI.

00:10:34.080 And I'm like, okay, like what really is up? Like, I don't know what else I have to say or do

00:10:42.020 to prove to people that this was a thing that happened. And like, I don't know. And it became

00:10:48.940 weird. I, it was hard for me to even put into words what I was feeling because I didn't want

00:10:55.200 to feel selfish. You know, I don't want to say like, you know, I don't want to seem like a kid

00:10:59.940 throwing a tantrum when there's actual work to be done you know and like there are so many other

00:11:05.040 things that are more important and like that are happening right now that I care about um but it

00:11:11.820 did sting I was like I am so and so I would also see that happen with the ladies um with uh what

00:11:19.200 became known as Blackout Tuesday which was a complete departure from their original branding

00:11:23.960 I was like, well, nice to, like, not nice, but, like, nice to know other Black women experience this, and I'm not, like, crazy or making it up, you know?

00:11:33.220 After finding out about the new Blackout Day 2020 boycott, Mars and her team tried to revive their Blackout Day in May in an effort to regain control of the digital infrastructure they created.

00:11:43.520 But at a time when their voice was most needed, it seemed like their work was being erased.

00:11:48.840 It's just that confusing.

00:11:50.280 so what we have always faced with blackout day is that the word we don't own the word blackout

00:11:57.040 right we definitely do not blackout is a word that existed um i could one could say okay you

00:12:03.880 don't even own the concept of when black people mobilize online like you i don't own that i don't

00:12:11.640 like that is a phenomenon that no one owns it's just us getting together and mobilizing for a

00:12:18.260 greater good right um but blackout day specifically did not exist like as a phrase as a tag like

00:12:25.700 before us so we were actually preparing to try to um archive the work and like

00:12:35.120 leave the pages up as a sort of um like museum and a reminder that they happened right um

00:12:42.400 but we were actually saying okay we maybe should we should make a comeback because people were

00:12:48.700 obviously with the success of like blackout day 2020 and how quickly that man's movement was

00:12:54.660 growing we're like people are obviously hungry for some sort of action we are also re-entering

00:13:00.340 a societal moment just like the one in 2016 you know what i mean like we are currently now living

00:13:06.540 in that sort of moment again maybe this is the time like maybe we should just try again you know

00:13:11.340 it gets discouraging for to try to do this for so many years and sort of feel like you're

00:13:17.320 screaming into a void. Um, and so we were like, okay, let's try again. Um, but the issue is,

00:13:24.180 is that this guy knew that our hashtag existed and then was just like, I'm going to just do my

00:13:29.640 thing using a hashtag with a year on it. And unfortunately we are now too, like we're so

00:13:37.560 confused with each other that people send me hate mail that is meant for him like which is a crazy

00:13:45.160 thing to think about like our email gets emails meant for this man and i have never spoken to

00:13:53.340 him before i don't know him i don't like i don't know how ti got mixed up in this it does sound

00:13:57.660 like the media was just like yeah ti reposted this thing from facebook and now he's a you know

00:14:02.720 movement he's a thought leader which is you know a whole nother conversation to have in and of

00:14:06.640 itself it's like where is the bar and like I I know that I am probably shooting myself in the

00:14:11.620 foot I am very um I'm very aware that rocking the boat um in this way my but like why do we keep

00:14:22.620 making thought leaders of people who are really just doing their duty like they're just doing

00:14:29.000 what is right they're just doing what is you know thing amplifying the voices of other people

00:14:33.400 but all of a sudden i'm supposed to really really listen and hone in as ti comes up with this like

00:14:38.480 grand economic plan to save black people

00:14:41.020 which using the the hashtag that for five years of my life i have been getting called slurs for

00:14:50.960 like it is really odd it's like i felt like i was in the twilight zone because the whole thing

00:14:55.860 really exploded the day after my birthday and i was like what is going on like happy birthday to

00:15:01.920 me a project that you really wanted to sunset and like keep sacred is now back with a vengeance

00:15:09.260 being led by a man you don't know and then the whole um you know the show must be paused

00:15:14.180 that was like adding fuel to a a fire already you know because we were already having the weird

00:15:22.600 tension and confusion between us and blackout day 2020 and then blackout tuesday and i read

00:15:30.360 really as like a scholar of the internet and thinking about how content travels um

00:15:37.680 the show must be paused is a perfect example of how you can be really really really tight

00:15:46.380 with your messaging but as soon as your messaging reaches a certain threshold

00:15:49.960 it's out there in the wild like you don't know how people are going to interpret it

00:15:55.980 um you don't know how it's going to change and how it's going to morph um and so yeah the black

00:16:02.520 square thing across very many industries that that didn't make sense and then people were coming and

00:16:07.500 asking me like what do we do next and I'm like I have no idea that's not me what was it like to

00:16:14.480 sort of be forced into making a statement about blackout day 2020 an initiative you had nothing

00:16:18.500 to do with it was actually so panic inducing um like to be really real i was terrified um just

00:16:28.160 because i am although i've done like i could say like oh i've done a bunch of like really cool

00:16:34.200 things um i don't necessarily have a spotlight shown on me very often on the internet um yeah

00:16:42.560 my tumblr following is pretty hefty but like tumblr's pretty like tumblr's returning to being

00:16:48.220 kind of niche at this point um and so having a massive tumblr following doesn't mean much outside

00:16:55.180 of a tumblr right um but really like i got almost 3 000 twitter followers in two days and was like

00:17:03.300 what's going on um i hope you guys like aren't following me because you think that i'm going to

00:17:09.640 have like a super well put together plan about what's happening because i can't answer those

00:17:16.440 questions like again like we get emails that are meant for everyone else i have really had to think

00:17:23.400 seriously about how to move forward let's take a quick break

00:17:28.500 behind every night spent making the kids lunches there's a lot of suspense will they finally eat

00:17:39.200 the veggies will the pesto survive the first bite will the lunchbox come home empty half full or

00:17:44.860 come home at all and will you finish episode eight before you're done slicing the cucumbers

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00:18:31.180 that's 844-844-iheart if your bookshelf and your for you page are equally important to your

00:18:37.120 personality welcome home this is prose society the weekly podcast that's part book club part

00:18:44.740 group chat for thought daughters pop culture obsessives and anyone who thinks pride and

00:18:48.900 prejudice and love island deserve the same level of discourse i'm eli rallo and every week we're

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00:19:27.160 on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts see you between the pages

00:19:34.560 When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months.

00:19:39.940 I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.

00:19:46.320 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.

00:19:50.020 I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, 0.99

00:19:55.160 Shut up. Don't say anything. 0.99

00:19:58.480 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable.

00:20:02.640 I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.

00:20:07.100 I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.

00:20:14.720 They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

00:20:18.620 But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.

00:20:22.060 They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

00:20:25.180 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:20:37.060 And we're back.

00:20:39.080 Mars was supportive of the spinoffs and offshoots of Blackout Day, and she gave them her blessing.

00:20:44.080 But the Blackout Day 2020 boycott, with its massive virality and celebrity endorsement, this was different.

00:20:50.300 It makes it hard for her to imagine doing anything else online using the name Blackout Day.

00:20:55.180 for me it makes very little sense to continue with blackout as uh like as our name just because

00:21:05.560 it's kind of like you know they have the story that's what is it it's it's like escalators didn't

00:21:10.420 used to be called escalators it was really the brand escalators but then everybody started calling

00:21:14.220 it escalators so now every moving staircase is an escalator and they lost their copyright like

00:21:19.400 that's literally what it feels like is now everybody's got a different version of blackout

00:21:24.160 And that's been a thing for years, you know, blackout Eid is one.

00:21:27.540 It's my favorite one. Every Eid where, you know, as Ramadan is ending, like black Muslims show out. 1.00

00:21:34.340 Like, I love that one. There's a blackout for K-pop fans, you know, black BTS fans, blackout BTS. 1.00

00:21:42.000 That's what it is. And they're all those are all considered like direct spinoffs. 0.64

00:21:46.140 We've supported them over the years. It's been cool.

00:21:48.060 But no one's ever really known like what those actions were mimicking.

00:21:54.160 on a grand scale. Um, and so I am just so now used to blackout this blackout that, or like

00:22:03.600 blackout, even this blackout day fiasco that I'm like, you know, I really am like at this point,

00:22:10.760 I don't know if there's ever, if there's ever going to be a point where, um, what we were doing

00:22:17.760 before will ever make sense again. Do you think that the organizer of blackout day 2020,

00:22:23.320 like intentionally camped out on this infrastructure that you built or like do you wish they had reached

00:22:28.060 out to you like what like what do you think is going on with that i really i have no idea i

00:22:34.140 haven't spoken to him beyond like a twitter exchange where he i think he saw my thread

00:22:40.460 about uh ti and felt a little defensive and so i was just like no like i i stand by what i said

00:22:47.160 in my thread simply because i was explaining to people how like the mechanics the actual mechanics

00:22:54.180 of the erasure that happened here i was you know pointing out that the media you know gave ti credit

00:23:00.420 for a thing that's happening on facebook the thing that's happening on facebook is our name

00:23:06.620 with a year on it organized by someone i do not know like nothing i said was a lie um i don't i

00:23:13.820 haven't spoken to him since i he has not reached out again i've kind of buckled down and prepared

00:23:21.060 for the worst i think um in terms of like any kind of pushback or fallout um spam mail or like hate

00:23:31.680 mail in my my dms or anything um but i haven't i haven't spoken to him since and i but i find it

00:23:38.140 hard to believe that he didn't see our tag at all in the internet like on the internet like i find

00:23:47.460 it incredibly hard to believe just because like we're googleable like we have a wikipedia page

00:23:53.020 like it's there um and then nevertheless the fact that he did see this whole thing happening he did

00:24:02.280 see like this conversation I was having and then has not has not reached out again and has continued

00:24:10.820 trucking and is selling merchandise and is like doing whatever like that kind of tells me what I

00:24:16.860 need to know I'm like yeah you could say well Mars why don't you reach out but I'm tired of doing

00:24:21.760 that like again I have this whole from five years ago on up I have been the one to reach out to the

00:24:28.900 other person advocate for myself and like at this point i'm like you know i i'm i'm i'm gonna sit

00:24:36.660 here and i'm gonna wait and if it works out it works out if it doesn't work out it doesn't work

00:24:43.720 out um but i'm gonna put the onus on the black man to do that like to to be the the initiator here

00:24:54.500 um just because they've kind of gotten away like you know with erasing me like from the very start 0.78

00:25:04.040 you know it's it's frustrating it's hurtful to think about um and also like I'm only saying

00:25:11.320 this because I'm not scared anymore you know what I mean like I used to be scared like oh my gosh

00:25:14.800 what do they think I'm bitchy what do they think I'm complaining and I'm detracting and like yada

00:25:19.140 but at the end of the day you can do the right thing and like reach out and ask me what I think

00:25:30.380 and like actually say okay you know what I am actually causing problems for this person

00:25:36.280 let me do better and do right by her um or you cannot that's just that's just that's just it

00:25:46.980 I mean, until then, I'm just, I'm hanging out. I have other things that I've got going on

00:25:50.580 and other things that I'm working on and that I care about. And at, you know, at the end of the

00:25:56.480 day, we all want the same thing, which is better for Black people in America, better for Black

00:26:02.400 people all around the world. Mars was genuinely hurt. And on top of that, she felt a lot of

00:26:11.160 pressure to put on a happy PR friendly version of how she felt. On Twitter, she said she was tired

00:26:16.500 of the expectation that she'd just be grateful to be a footnote on something that she created

00:26:20.760 while men she's never even spoken to got the credit and i i'm still it's a it's a thing that

00:26:28.340 i'm still actively processing but essentially like look at the state of look at the difference

00:26:35.600 between like a ti and i right ti is a multi-millionaire successful like heralded like

00:26:43.280 out here does not have to worry about health care or paying his rent or anything like that right

00:26:50.540 and I was just I'm actually just coming off of the tail end of what I've been jokingly but not

00:26:56.460 jokingly calling the toughest year of my life the year 25 like I turned 25 and then the brakes like

00:27:04.320 broke like that year it was so painful um and so hard for me and so here I am like watching Black

00:27:12.520 day get kind of erased and like become a footnote again because it happens all the time but the 0.91

00:27:18.920 difference here now is that like holy crap like there are people with so much like so many more

00:27:27.300 resources than i have at my disposal actively celebrated for like doing a thing that is like

00:27:35.140 confusing people so like we also have our long-term community who is like mars what's going on what

00:27:41.800 what's happening because we do still have people who care about the work we do we we do still have

00:27:46.940 people who we consider our black out day family and they're like what's happening over there

00:27:51.040 and i'm like i have no clue and so part of me was like it really does hurt because here i am 1.00

00:27:58.660 a 26 year old freelancer i have like scraped by like like you know like black women do like making 0.88

00:28:06.160 spinning gold out of straw constantly just like grinding and grinding and I'm out here 0.98

00:28:12.680 just trying to get people to read my writing and just trying to you know keep my peace

00:28:17.920 and then you have like yeah I don't want to see a multi-millionaire like hip-hop celebrity like

00:28:24.060 superstar getting called like a hero like that's so annoying it was so like from it was hurtful

00:28:31.140 it was annoying it was frustrating I was just like I had no like I have no health care

00:28:36.160 you know what I mean like I am surviving the day-to-day like grind for a creative and

00:28:45.620 it really does like it hurt and it stung and I was like I can't be silent about this anymore

00:28:53.020 because if I keep this inside me I'm going to explode um and I was not expecting the level

00:28:59.800 of support that I got in response. I was like, this is nuts. Like I wasn't expecting anybody to

00:29:06.280 care if that makes sense. Um, which is a really sad thing to say, but like, you know, I, I wasn't

00:29:14.080 expecting people to really be as passionate as they were about it. Um, and then like knowing

00:29:21.260 that i'm also you know knowing that i'm not alone in this was um it meant a lot um but yeah it it

00:29:31.240 hurt like it's more than just like give me credit like whatever but yeah i cried i cried and i cried

00:29:39.140 and i cried and you know i'm really lucky to have been quarantining with my parents because i think

00:29:44.740 if i was dealing with um this particular you know unfortunate piece of i don't even know what to

00:29:52.300 call it like if i was dealing with this unfortunate thing alone um i don't know how um i would have i

00:29:59.160 would have coped properly i think it's also like a culmination of like a bunch of years of this

00:30:03.940 happening right i think it was just kind of like the straw that broke the camel's back um which

00:30:10.000 seems to be the theme of the societal moment like we are living in like listen we are fed up honey

00:30:16.680 um but yeah i was i was really deeply hurt by it when i saw mars's tweets i was furious on her

00:30:24.320 behalf i wasn't alone either the community she built online was ready to flip tables to make

00:30:29.900 sure she got credited and had support it's a good reminder that sometimes we're all we got

00:30:34.020 it was amazing i mean it's so weird too because um i don't feel like i'm like i don't feel

00:30:39.480 uh scene like I forget people see me you know what I mean like and I don't know if other black

00:30:44.860 women have experienced this but I definitely forget that when I throw a tweet out into the

00:30:54.080 universe or when I write something when I create something when I make something that other people

00:30:58.640 do see me you know what I mean and I think that might be a a combination of just like you know 1.00

00:31:05.040 the active erasure of black women in a lot of our workspaces and a lot of the things we make and 0.82

00:31:09.920 create. Um, but also just kind of a little symptomatic of, um, like going viral for your,

00:31:17.140 your work. You know what I mean? Like, I want to be those cool writers who are getting all those

00:31:21.200 cool like interviews and yada, yada, yada. Like, I think I got so caught up in wanting to sit with

00:31:27.900 the cool kids. I think of it like about it this way. I try not to get so caught up wanting to

00:31:33.220 sit at the cool kids lunch table that I forget that there are very many people who are inviting

00:31:38.440 me to sit with them like there are so many people who would go hey Mars over here and I'm so focused

00:31:45.540 on wanting to try to get to the cool kids table that I miss out on that and so this was also just

00:31:51.220 like one of the silver linings was like oh my gosh you are seen and you are loved like people see you

00:31:57.220 people went up for me and I was like this is so great and you know what and there's also like 0.93

00:32:01.500 we need to stop trying to take things on like and by we i mean black women trying to take things on

00:32:06.900 all by ourselves because for real the energy and the love you feel when you just let people go up

00:32:12.200 for you just let people start a fire for you it's okay it's gonna be okay let people be your defense

00:32:20.160 squad you know what i mean like especially other black women especially the like like women and

00:32:26.740 really and like the people from tumblr who were like oh nah nah nah like i i know y'all are not

00:32:32.600 out here trying to disrespect mars and i was like this is so like i cry you know happy tears um

00:32:38.620 but that's just it's crazy let people go up for you and remember that the cool kids lunch table

00:32:44.240 is like overrated you know what i mean like cool cool cool they have a new york times bestseller

00:32:48.960 cool cool cool they're they went there on vacation or they're speaking there or yada yada yada

00:32:54.720 But, you know, comparison is a thief of joy.

00:32:58.540 Just, and, you know, I've had to process all of that, of course, because I was like, am I just mad that TI is getting attention?

00:33:05.840 Like, let's unpack this, you know, like becoming your own therapist, sitting down on the metaphorical couch in your mind and being like, OK, what are you really feeling?

00:33:14.700 It really comes down to feeling accepted, celebrated and seen.

00:33:18.400 That's what Mars was looking for on Tumblr.

00:33:20.680 And it's what drove her to create Blackout Day in the first place.

00:33:23.900 And it's what she thinks makes online movements so special.

00:33:26.700 And getting right back down to the heart of what I hope a lot of these movements think about going forward is how do you make the people who felt like me, who forget that people see them, how do you make them remember that people see them and like expand their expectations for and like for themselves?

00:33:52.580 like what do they want for themselves and like just within the context of the internet because

00:33:57.980 you know this is a thing that i think could be applied like should be applied everywhere in real

00:34:03.000 time and what i think a lot of campaigns like and a lot of sayings like representation matters

00:34:07.140 like are getting at is how do you make the people who feel forgotten who feel unseen

00:34:12.260 feel seen and celebrated in a way that's authentic and amazing and empower them to want more for

00:34:18.240 themselves and like if I were to pivot and you know blackout day probably can't exist as it has

00:34:25.300 but if I were to pivot the project that would really be what I would want to get at whether

00:34:31.300 it's you know completely scrapping the whole thing and starting fresh with a new project like

00:34:40.260 that is always what I've wanted my work to do is you feel forgotten you feel like no one loves you

00:34:48.020 i want this thing that i make for you i want this organization that i build for you i want this

00:34:54.700 poem that i wrote i want this tv show that i create i want this thing i sing to feel like

00:35:00.900 a love letter specifically to you that's really how my brain works and how i approach everything

00:35:06.360 is how does this feel like a love letter to the person i'm talking to

00:35:10.180 you know to the audience that i'm seeking to create

00:35:14.180 thank you i'm a poet i don't know more there are no girls on the internet after this quick break

00:35:22.820 run a business and not thinking about podcasting think again more americans listen to podcasts

00:35:32.620 than ad-supported streaming music from spotify and pandora and as the number one podcaster

00:35:37.220 iheart's twice as large as the next two combined so whatever your customers listen to they'll hear

00:35:41.940 your message. Plus, only iHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio.

00:35:47.180 Think podcasting can help your business? Think iHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Call

00:35:52.300 844-844-iHeart to get started. That's 844-844-iHeart. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and

00:36:01.400 held captive for nine months. I survived and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive

00:36:07.900 what should have destroyed them.

00:36:10.140 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.

00:36:13.780 I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, 0.96

00:36:19.200 shut up, don't say anything.

00:36:21.880 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. 0.98

00:36:26.380 I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.

00:36:30.840 I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed,

00:36:35.520 and I just started screaming.

00:36:38.460 They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

00:36:42.360 But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.

00:36:45.820 They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

00:36:49.440 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart

00:36:52.220 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

00:36:55.380 or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:36:57.900 If your bookshelf and your For You page

00:36:59.880 are equally important to your personality,

00:37:02.320 welcome home.

00:37:03.840 This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.

00:37:16.300 I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.

00:37:23.280 I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed, so obsessed.

00:37:26.540 from best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments

00:37:31.440 nothing is off the table it's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters

00:37:38.640 and that is a trojan horse whether you're looking for literary deep dives smart pop culture

00:37:43.800 conversations or a community of readers who love to think a little too much you're in the right

00:37:48.960 place listen to pro society on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts

00:37:55.920 See you between the pages.

00:37:57.960 Hey, this is Hayes Davenport.

00:37:59.560 And Sean Clements.

00:38:00.760 We host the podcast Hollywood Handbook.

00:38:02.940 Every episode, we're trying to help our guests improve their careers

00:38:05.320 by mainly focusing on how they can help us improve our careers.

00:38:08.720 The show is famously super accessible,

00:38:10.200 so you can easily jump into any of our 650 episodes

00:38:13.280 and understand what's going on.

00:38:14.860 We recommend some of our recent episodes with Ben Stiller.

00:38:17.360 The definition of what is a movie has kind of changed anyway, too, right?

00:38:20.800 What do you think it is now?

00:38:21.600 it's images and words being spoken captured by some sort of uh technology danny mcbride

00:38:29.200 he loves boba oh that's fantastic and you make it on you make your own that's great

00:38:33.580 i call him tarot reed

00:38:35.380 that's a good name they're all named after cast members of american pie yeah i call i don't i

00:38:43.700 never looked up if she was in this but i call him leechy sobieski yeah i don't think she was

00:38:48.620 american pie but i still haven't looked it up she was prominent around the same time yeah then

00:38:53.840 mary steenburgen why are you guys talking to me like i'm worried why are you talking so down to

00:38:59.420 me that you think i don't understand your little play play game i just really i get it trying to

00:39:06.080 set you up for success here listen to hollywood handbook on the iheart radio app apple podcasts

00:39:11.320 or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:39:16.760 And we're back.

00:39:18.520 Anyone can make a Black Lives Matter post on Instagram. 0.69

00:39:21.680 But how do you really and truly affirm Black lives? 0.87

00:39:25.300 How do you show up for Black people,

00:39:27.240 especially the Black people who are likely to go marginalized or overlooked?

00:39:30.680 You might love to consume Black content and Black culture,

00:39:34.360 but do you really love Black people?

00:39:36.780 To me, love looks like, love for Black women especially,

00:39:40.100 looks like giving us credit.

00:39:41.320 and like it looks like giving us credit it looks like giving us space it looks like giving us

00:39:45.400 opportunity um and it also looks like recognizing when you take up too much space right because I

00:39:53.640 have been seeing like in this recent wave of like oh my gosh and then we're like you know we're

00:39:57.940 dedicating this space to doing black like black creatives and that are not supporting black lives 0.92

00:40:02.580 there's always always like in blackout too there's always always cream that rises to the top quote 0.98

00:40:08.200 right like end quote like there's always the people who are going to be you know chosen first

00:40:15.020 for the kickball team which sometimes that's not great because sometimes that means that like the 0.60

00:40:21.580 powers that be are tokenizing you and that is garbage that is a horrible position to be in

00:40:26.020 I don't wish that on anybody but also sometimes it looks like you having a ton of access

00:40:31.760 and then not leaving space for someone who might not have as much access to get that opportunity

00:40:41.620 and to to have that conversation open up for them as well um and it's hard to have that combo

00:40:48.680 because like sometimes like especially on twitter if i tweet that you know it's like why are you

00:40:52.880 such a hater who are you subtweeting like i don't know and it's hard too because as a black woman 0.98

00:40:58.480 people are also projecting this like like either this snobbiness onto you like a cattiness or for

00:41:08.300 me uh it's like the mammy right I'm everyone's emotional support like blogger which is I'm

00:41:16.340 honored but it's also exhausting um so like having this kind of conversation about like who gets

00:41:22.540 where and who and does and like who does what and yada yada yada is near impossible on the internet

00:41:28.900 but i think it's a conversation worth having for sure mars is right we should be having

00:41:35.100 conversations about who gets credited for their creations but those conversations are often

00:41:39.160 difficult to have especially online and when black folks make things online the assumption is

00:41:44.380 it just belongs to everybody think about viral sensations like kombucha girl real name britney 0.97

00:41:50.320 Tomilson, whose hilarious TikTok of her taste-testing kombucha landed her lucrative brand 0.98

00:41:55.880 deals, including a Super Bowl ad.

00:41:58.000 It really smells like a public restroom.

00:42:00.860 From the first video I ever posted, I have like 50,000 followers, which is so many.

00:42:05.060 So many.

00:42:05.820 And then from there, I just kind of kept posting.

00:42:08.340 The kombucha video was like the ninth video I ever posted.

00:42:11.040 Compare that with 14-year-old Jalila Harmon.

00:42:13.820 Jalila's renegade dance challenge on TikTok went mega viral, with everybody from Lizzo

00:42:18.020 to A-Rod doing it.

00:42:20.320 But another dancer on TikTok was initially credited with starting the dance trend.

00:42:26.080 And people on social media had to go hard just to make sure Jalila was given credit at all.

00:42:32.340 Mars wants to know why it's so easy for Black women creators online to not get credit for our contributions 1.00

00:42:36.840 and have tough conversations about the role of power in cultural exchange.

00:42:42.320 We had to go up for a little baby girl to get credit for that, right?

00:42:47.020 and like watching that i'm like oh my gosh you see people like and i actually just made a post

00:42:52.080 about this like you see people like no shade at her kombucha girl right i actually still don't

00:42:57.120 know her name i'm so sorry um but like you see like she ended up in a super bowl commercial

00:43:02.100 like hello and like that's that's nuts like how is it that when people who aren't black go viral

00:43:12.640 it seems that like it's a life-changing type deal right and then like black people have to actively 0.63

00:43:20.020 make sure that our names are like plastered all over everything so that we can or like people

00:43:24.980 have to make a tweet that's like so and so made this but y'all don't want to have that conversation 0.96

00:43:28.540 before before we get to those types of opportunities and especially like with black 1.00

00:43:35.500 women maybe it's because you know maybe it's just a small fraction of a piece of the phenomenon 0.99

00:43:44.380 that black people are just essentially the ghost writers of popular culture right like maybe it's 0.73

00:43:50.200 just a tiny little subset of that that that issue just like there was oh my gosh i remember back in 0.99

00:43:56.940 the day tumblr would have this argument about the word fuck boy and like there was like this rumor

00:44:03.720 that it was a homophobic slur and it was like what are y'all talking about like it it really 0.69

00:44:10.820 is just like life is the biggest game of telephone um and like once really and truly like no like

00:44:17.340 no offense to them but like also if you're offended it's the truth um but like not once 0.75

00:44:22.640 non-black people latch on to something and like that's exactly what happened with like the show

00:44:28.860 must be paused because the cta was two black people in the music industry that was the cta 0.97

00:44:38.260 and that was the audience we were it was an a b conversation but as soon as c d and e which were

00:44:45.560 non-black people join in the whole thing is just like stripped of its original cta removed from 0.87

00:44:54.140 its context and then compete like completely bastardized and corny right yeah corny and not 0.92

00:45:02.360 effective and confusing ineffective and weird and confusing and like i think that is just what 1.00

00:45:09.280 black that's what the world just does to black people creating things all the time especially 1.00

00:45:15.420 black americans especially african americans like child as soon as any like as soon as black people 1.00

00:45:22.680 like or do anything that seems cool as soon as it comes like crosses that boundary and the people 0.82

00:45:29.360 like oh my god you don't want like your slang to cross like generations you don't want it to

00:45:34.780 cross races like that's beautiful that's cultural exchange and it's like okay well what do i get in

00:45:39.660 exchange for all like for all of the white women going yes sis yes queen work like what do i get

00:45:46.660 in exchange if it's cultural exchange like i don't have any privilege you're not giving me your

00:45:50.540 privilege you're not giving me your money y'all aren't hiring me like what is the cultural exchange 0.88

00:45:55.460 that people keep referring to when they talk about the ways in which black creations are 0.86

00:46:01.120 like disseminated and bastardized on their way out of black spaces you know what i mean like

00:46:06.500 please i didn't you gave me nothing and i am dealing with you guys arguing about like 0.96

00:46:12.860 Karen being a slur like oh come on you give like you give me nothing culturally I am black like 0.84

00:46:22.140 we create this cool like we create all this cool shit although I will say Dungeons and Dragons 0.99

00:46:27.300 snaps because Dungeons and Dragons is my favorite hobby so like I guess that's the exchange part 0.96

00:46:36.900 for me on a personal level, but from a systemic point of view, come on.

00:46:46.800 I'm making this podcast because I want to make sure all the marginalized voices that make being

00:46:50.920 online what it is, don't go erased or overlooked just because of our identities.

00:46:58.140 Mars has had a big impact on how folks show up online. And if I were writing a history book

00:47:02.880 about the internet in the 2000s, she'd be all over it. But Mars wishes there were some way that

00:47:07.840 other marginalized people could measure the impact they have online. Because our impact has been huge

00:47:12.540 and we deserve to have that impact celebrated and affirmed. I would love it if I could build

00:47:22.580 a thing or someone, somebody somewhere could build a thing where we teach people, we teach

00:47:30.300 black women especially how to like black women within internet spaces but like black women who

00:47:36.260 are shaping the internet essentially like if we could have a collective where we all just like 0.89

00:47:40.240 number one just get together and like key that'd be great number two really teaching people how to

00:47:47.680 make their impact quantifiable because I think that's always been my issue right that's always

00:47:54.580 been the thing that's been hard for Blackout, especially, is how do I, Mars, make my impact

00:48:00.140 on the internet quantifiable? Even when, you know, even being asked to do this podcast, I was like,

00:48:05.800 but I'm not a big deal. And then people were like, but no, you are. And I'm like, but I don't

00:48:10.440 actually understand. I don't think I've internalized how I'm a big deal. You know what I

00:48:14.760 mean? So like, how do I measure my impact? How do I make that impact? And then like the last step

00:48:21.660 is how do you make that impact work for you?

00:48:25.240 Because that's the problem 1.00

00:48:26.820 is that Black women will be super amazingly impactful 1.00

00:48:30.800 and people will benefit greatly 0.93

00:48:35.420 with like, you know, rich, rich benefits 1.00

00:48:37.880 from the work that Black women have done. 1.00

00:48:41.140 But how do we make it work for ourselves?

00:48:44.500 Like speaking specifically back to movement work, 0.51

00:48:47.140 it's like Black Lives Matter

00:48:48.460 was founded by three queer Black women.

00:48:51.660 Like, that's amazing. But guess who's actively erased from the what has been heralded as the quote, main Black Lives Matter movement? Black women, Black LGBTQ folks. And like, how, how do we make the thing that we make work for us?

00:49:11.800 you know and so I would just want to I'm like I'm thinking you know way far into the future when

00:49:18.020 this era of the internet is over what I want to be remembered for is like making cool things

00:49:28.880 that made people happy made people feel loved made my people black people feel loved made

00:49:37.120 girls like me fat girls black girls dark-skinned girls like made us feel loved and happy

00:49:43.780 but also got credit for and like made my mark and was able to carve out space so that it's

00:49:52.120 easier for the next person I mean that's the eternal question of how we do that that's a

00:49:59.440 beautiful goal that's always like and you know and everything I do that's really I want to I

00:50:04.740 want to be able to and you know I'm I'm no I'm no longer ashamed of saying that I want to be able

00:50:08.740 to eat and sleep and rest and take care of myself and buy myself a coach bag when I want to just as

00:50:15.720 a little treat because I worked hard you deserve it oh you know what no not not coach we we black

00:50:22.800 owned what is it that everybody wants right now tell far I was like oh my god the peer pressure 0.90

00:50:28.200 I want one too then I found out they were black owned and I was like okay gag um but you know 0.99

00:50:33.700 like I want to be able to rest on my laurels and it's it's that's not a bad thing and for black 0.97

00:50:40.320 women I want us to really internalize like it is not a bad thing to want to be credited and it's

00:50:46.080 also not a bad thing to want to have the basic necessities of your life and you're yourself

00:50:52.140 cared for period like whether it be you know being credited properly or cited properly for

00:50:57.300 your work you know how many times I have seen amazing black writers on tumblr amazing black

00:51:02.820 writers women too have their words lifted and posted on twitter like and i know it's the

00:51:09.600 internet i know it's public and yada yada but like oh my gosh please like to see people who

00:51:16.460 say care about black women protect black women this is how i'm supporting a black woman today

00:51:20.840 you are actively repeating the words like stealing the intellectual thought like the 0.92

00:51:28.200 intellectual property and thoughts of Black women and that Black woman, you know, that Black woman 1.00

00:51:36.360 goes to bed a little hungrier than she should while, you know, you have people who are benefiting 0.85

00:51:43.800 actively from their work, you know, in rooms with celebrities. Like, you know, some people are going

00:51:52.840 to want to aspire to celebrity and that is on them to want to aspire to that but like to do it 1.00

00:52:01.160 while stepping on the hands and the backs and the necks of black women is just I I cannot abide 1.00

00:52:08.380 and it's I'm tired of being nice about that frustration I have resorted to being angry 1.00

00:52:14.980 out loud about it because it's like if you're gonna call me angry anyway I might as well get

00:52:19.600 my licks in you know what i mean like if you're gonna call me big mad or jealous or a hater

00:52:25.100 because i'm not the quote influencer type you know what i mean and for a while that's what i

00:52:30.100 aspired to i did want to like pivot to not specifically within the realm of like blackout

00:52:35.380 but i did want to like pivot to being like cute and quirky and fun and like happy attention um

00:52:39.900 but i don't like that's i've tossed that in the garbage bin it's like i i'm not trying to be

00:52:46.160 famous all that to say like it's a dangerous thing and a hard line to tiptoe across when

00:52:56.940 you're asking to be credited and then having to kind of fight the clout monster too you know what

00:53:02.580 i mean like i don't i'm not saying this for clout i'm not doing this for clout but also you're gonna

00:53:07.140 know who i am because what i did was important you know making a specific effort to support

00:53:14.600 Black-owned businesses is a great call to action.

00:53:17.260 As we show support for Black lives on Blackout Day 2020,

00:53:20.360 let's also honor and amplify the Black women

00:53:22.620 whose labor and talent laid the foundation for us to do so.

00:53:25.780 To support Blackout Day 2020,

00:53:27.560 don't spend any money today, July 7th, 1.00

00:53:29.680 unless it's at a Black-owned business. 0.60

00:53:31.540 To support Mars, follow her on social media 0.64

00:53:33.740 at MarsInCharge on Twitter

00:53:34.980 and at MarsInCharge underscore on Instagram.

00:53:39.560 There Are No Girls on the Internet was created by me, Bridget Todd.

00:53:42.920 It's a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.

00:53:45.520 Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer.

00:53:47.560 Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer.

00:53:50.080 Michael Amato is our contributing producer.

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There Are No Girls on the Internet - July 07, 2020

BlackOutDay2020

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