There Are No Girls on the Internet - BONUS： Esports is for Everyone

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00:00:50.080 I survived nine months in captivity,

00:00:53.240 and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.

00:00:58.760 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files.

00:01:02.380 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

00:01:09.920 These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

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00:01:21.360 If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.

00:01:27.120 Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.

00:01:35.740 Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions.

00:01:44.000 Yeah, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed.

00:01:45.760 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 1.00

00:01:51.840 There are no girls on the internet. We'll be back soon with a new season. 0.97

00:01:54.240 But until then, and in honor of homecoming, enjoy this special mini-celebration of women using technology to make change on the campuses of historically Black colleges and universities. 0.97

00:02:03.460 We'll be back for our regular season soon. 0.72

00:02:09.580 There Are No Girls on the Internet is a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.

00:02:17.700 I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet.

00:02:20.420 esports competitive video games like super smash brothers and league of legends are big business

00:02:28.020 in 2019 the esports industry made over a billion dollars and in 2020 it's projected to reach over

00:02:34.520 600 million people now it's easy to think of your stereotypical gamer dude dominating the

00:02:40.200 esports industry but esports actually has a diverse and mainstream audience and they're

00:02:44.960 not just for hardcore gamers either in the run-up to the recent election alexandria

00:02:49.320 Ocasio-Cortez and Ilhan Omar played the game Among Us on Twitch as a way to connect with voters and

00:02:54.420 drive turnout. And although esports attracts a diverse audience, women and people of color are

00:02:59.700 consistently underrepresented in this increasingly lucrative field. Dr. Bernadette Lawson-Williams

00:03:05.400 spearheaded the very first academic program dedicated to esports management at a historically

00:03:10.220 Black College to change that. I am a full professor of sport management at Johnson C.

00:03:19.400 Smith University, as well as the advisor of our eSports and Gaming Trisecta, the first at an HBCU.

00:03:27.720 And our Trisecta consists of our eSports and Gaming Management minor program, our eSports club,

00:03:36.140 our game development club, and our eSports lab.

00:03:39.400 And we're the first HGPU to boast an eSports and gaming trispector.

00:03:43.400 So that's always very exciting to be a part of that kind of legacy.

00:03:47.260 So for folks who don't know, what exactly is eSports?

00:03:50.680 eSports is actually electronic sports.

00:03:53.000 So the E is for electronic.

00:03:55.760 And so when we think of electronic sports,

00:03:59.300 oftentimes we really don't equate eSports with our traditional sports,

00:04:04.760 such as basketball, tennis, golf, because we think that it's just video gaming.

00:04:10.940 But when we look at the definition of sport, a sport actually entails some element of physicality,

00:04:17.960 some element of competition, and some element of codified rules.

00:04:22.380 And by that very definition, esports are just as much sports as traditional sports and non-traditional sports.

00:04:29.600 And so I always like to provide the history and insight and definition just to make sure that our listeners are educated in that way.

00:04:39.600 Do you spend time playing video games?

00:04:41.560 Well, if you're anything like Dr. Lawson Williams, that pastime could actually be leading you to a career in gaming.

00:04:47.880 She got her start just from being someone who loved playing video games with her brothers. 0.69

00:04:52.340 And as a Black mom, she's changing the face of what we think of when we think of a gamer.

00:04:56.900 okay so how did you find yourself doing this work you know i can imagine that people must tell you

00:05:02.800 that you don't look like the typical person advocating for gaming and esports how did you

00:05:07.140 get involved in this well actually funny enough i haven't had anyone say that just yet if they're

00:05:12.540 saying it then i don't know which is a good thing but i was actually a gamer believe it or not

00:05:20.000 Back in the 80s and 90s, I was a gamer girl.

00:05:24.220 I was Ms. Pac-Man, Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, Asteroid.

00:05:29.220 I used to go to the arcade with my brother,

00:05:32.320 and that was our sibling bonding activity, playing video games.

00:05:36.580 I picked it back up when my Generation Z twin sons,

00:05:40.400 who are 11 years old now, began to gain at about 6 years old.

00:05:44.900 And so when I got them their first Xbox and literally set it up

00:05:48.980 and saw the expression on their faces when they came out of their room into the living room only

00:05:55.000 to see Xbox on the TV screen, I was sold. I just fell in love with the fact that they were so

00:06:00.920 excited and passionate about gaming. And so from there, you know, progressively year after year,

00:06:08.080 I began to get a little bit more connected to the research of esports and gaming. And when I

00:06:13.820 I started to think about the connectivity between esports and sports management.

00:06:19.280 Then it really turned into an opportunity to educate and to provide opportunities for our students at Johnson C. Smith University.

00:06:27.860 And of course, for HBCUs, JCSU as the first HBCU with an esports and gaming trifecta now has served as a pioneer for so many other HBCUs to get into this space.

00:06:40.500 And so we're so ecstatic about that opportunity.

00:06:43.820 just to be a part of this legacy that we now see being much more prevalent at our HBCUs.

00:06:49.480 So you mentioned that a big part of the program is managing live eSports event.

00:06:53.680 Have you ever been, Dani?

00:06:55.100 I have.

00:06:56.000 And funny enough, the first eSports tournament that I went to was here in Charlotte, North Carolina.

00:07:01.160 Oh, my goodness.

00:07:02.360 The synergy in that room.

00:07:04.620 You had individuals, my sons are 11.

00:07:07.440 so individuals all the way from 10 11 all the way up to their middle middle 30s and their gaming

00:07:15.740 my sons literally it was the first time that they actually played a game called smash brothers and

00:07:21.520 feel familiar with mario the character mario and so they actually ended up playing a gym and i

00:07:29.120 believe must have been about 24 25 years old and it was amazing because they are so versatile to

00:07:35.340 And I'm talking about my twins, so versatile in their gaming abilities that they were able to get into the game for the first time, pick up and and really move and really manipulate and so quickly.

00:07:48.240 And so they learn the game on the spot to the point where one of the gentlemen's observing.

00:07:52.880 Of course, I wasn't familiar with the game. I was learning it as I was watching and observing.

00:07:58.080 But he actually whispered to me, your son is pretty good.

00:08:00.580 It's also, wow, I have gamers on my hands, so I have to take this a lot more seriously

00:08:08.860 because, you know, a lot of times as parents, for us, you know, many of us feel that gain

00:08:14.700 it is a waste of time where my mindset has truly been transformed.

00:08:19.360 I am sold on the business side of eSports.

00:08:22.940 Dr. Lawson Williams was motivated by making sure that everyone had access to the kinds

00:08:27.480 of business opportunities that eSports presents.

00:08:30.580 The university partnered with Riot Games, the creative company behind the wildly popular game League of Legends and its associated e-sports tournaments.

00:08:39.040 Now, video game consoles like Xboxes and PlayStations can be pretty pricey, which is one reason the field isn't more diverse.

00:08:45.880 But thanks to this partnership, Johnson C. Smith University is leveling the playing field.

00:08:50.560 Consoles may run between $300 and $500.

00:08:53.560 dollars. Well, PCs, actual computers that are specifically for gaming, can run anywhere from

00:09:01.300 a thousand up to twenty five hundred dollars. And so it was really a tremendous opportunity for us

00:09:08.420 to secure that funding because now we actually have gaming PCs for our students so that when

00:09:13.860 they return back to campus in the spring, they'll actually be ready to go and everyone will be on

00:09:18.960 an even playing field, as opposed to one person playing in a PC, another person playing from

00:09:23.860 their smartphone, and another person playing from an Xbox. And so that's what's exciting. But the

00:09:28.880 program at Johnson C. Smith University is specifically geared at getting minorities

00:09:34.600 involved, as well as females involved. So we actually have a campaign going on now,

00:09:39.520 really pushing to get more females in the space, particularly female students at JPSU. 0.96

00:09:45.540 How do we make sure that more women and folks of color aren't just playing games, but they're making money from gaming and esports? 1.00

00:09:52.560 Well, unsurprisingly, one answer is just supporting one another and lifting as we climb.

00:09:57.600 Dr. Lawson-Williams says that mentorship is that one way that underrepresented people can break into the esports and gaming industry.

00:10:06.260 So what's your advice to a woman or a person of color who might be interested in pursuing esports as an academic study or a field or even as a gamer themselves?

00:10:14.080 What's your advice to them?

00:10:15.640 Connect to the right organization.

00:10:18.240 And so the beauty of esports is it's not confined.

00:10:22.460 You know, there is no organization that really confines or restricts your ability to participate

00:10:29.240 in as many leagues as you would like to.

00:10:31.380 And so, you know, whoever that individual is, if you can reach out to someone who's

00:10:36.620 in gaming, if you're on, for instance, a networking, social media, LinkedIn has been the best

00:10:41.700 place that I've seen in terms of individuals linking up. And I would have to say the majority

00:10:46.020 of people are excited about other gamers getting into this space. And so for them, that means a

00:10:51.780 lot. We'll follow up with you and provide you with guidance from there. So the mentee-mentor

00:10:57.740 relationship is imperative in this industry for sure. More after this quick break.

00:11:03.260 Transcription by CastingWords

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00:12:08.500 if your bookshelf and your for you page are equally important to your personality

00:12:12.300 welcome home this is prose society the weekly podcast that's part book club part group chat

00:12:19.820 for thought daughters pop culture obsessives and anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and

00:12:24.080 love island deserve the same level of discourse i'm eli rallo and every week we're connecting

00:12:29.060 the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.

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00:13:06.580 See you between the pages.

00:13:08.660 When I was 14 years old,

00:13:10.940 I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months.

00:13:14.460 I survived, and I've spent my life exploring

00:13:17.160 how other people survive what should have destroyed them.

00:13:20.760 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.

00:13:24.380 I just remember this low, taunting voice

00:13:28.000 next to my ear saying shut up don't say anything every week i'm with survivors who live through

00:13:35.500 the unthinkable i knew if he woke up without a doubt he was going to hurt me i started feeling

00:13:43.060 that there was someone at the end of my bed and i just started screaming they are abducted stalked

00:13:51.140 controlled and nearly silenced but these aren't stories about what's taken from them they're

00:13:56.880 stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart

00:14:03.060 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:14:12.120 Let's get right back to it. What do you think that little Bernadette, who was this little 0.99

00:14:17.320 gamer girl, would think to see you now? You know, now that you're Dr. Lawson Williams, you know,

00:14:23.340 spearheading the very first historic HBCU eSports program.

00:14:27.580 What do you think your young self would think about that?

00:14:29.900 So my younger self would just be tickled pink and would actually say,

00:14:33.820 I knew you were going somewhere.

00:14:36.560 The moment I decided in the eighth grade to begin capitalizing the N in my name

00:14:42.180 because I was being creative, I knew that things were going to happen.

00:14:45.440 So God just wheeled it in.

00:14:47.660 It just shows that, you know, those kinds of opportunities that we're exposed to

00:14:52.140 were younger you know many times they remain dormant for decades but you know something you

00:14:58.700 know causes them there's a catalyst somewhere that causes those you know passions to actually

00:15:03.880 rehash or rehash you know a lot of colleges are offering esports scholarships and so just as we

00:15:11.440 would want that again athlete and baseball or football to be committed to get out there and

00:15:17.440 practice to work on your skills I'm always reminding my kids and they're always reminding mom

00:15:22.540 I'm I'm working on my technique you know so it's really cool uh having them I call them my esports

00:15:30.520 consultants because a lot of times wanting to clarify information I'm like now this particular

00:15:35.780 game is published by who oh no it's an indie publisher okay okay it's not you know published

00:15:41.860 by Bright Games or Epic but it's published by you know someone who's just an individual as

00:15:47.320 I remind them there's so many innumerable opportunities, career opportunities in the

00:15:52.960 esports and gaming industry. They can go into software development, game development, you know,

00:15:58.340 the business side of it. They can be shoutcasters. I mean, innumerable opportunities. Esports is so

00:16:04.880 STEM-based and that's what we really have to remember. It's not just about playing a video

00:16:10.520 game. It's about really getting into, you know, the nature of what a video game entails, what an

00:16:16.280 esports actually entails. And so I remind my students that every day, you guys actually have

00:16:22.020 an advantage in the industry because you're already gamers. Right now, we're the only HBCU

00:16:28.040 undergraduate level that has an esports and gaming management program. And so I can't say that

00:16:33.560 enough because it's so exciting and we want everyone to understand the real phenomena in

00:16:39.820 that statement. It's not an uncommon story for underrepresented people to be a big chunk of an

00:16:45.240 audience of an industry, but not have proportionate influence when it comes to control over that very

00:16:50.440 same industry. Esports and gaming is the same way. Women in communities of color are the ones

00:16:56.060 consuming and playing the games, yet we aren't the ones making money from video games and esports. 1.00

00:17:02.020 Dr. Lawson Williams wants to change this. We know that 83% of African-American teams

00:17:07.580 play some type of video game, but sadly the other statistic on the other side is that less than

00:17:14.860 83% of African-Americans are actually employed in the e-sports and gaming industry.

00:17:22.020 And so that's the sad aspect of it. 0.95

00:17:25.100 But what we're excited about, we turned that around,

00:17:27.680 but still relying into the cloud is we're going to change that statistic. 0.99

00:17:31.780 We're going to take that 83% of African-Americans playing video games

00:17:35.920 and increase that 2% and meet it halfway. 0.75

00:17:40.460 And we're working on that.

00:17:41.560 And I feel we're going to make that happen very soon.

00:17:44.560 It's already happening.

00:17:46.240 How does it feel to know you made history?

00:17:48.120 It's not about me.

00:17:49.800 I say that to my kids all the time.

00:17:51.500 Never be in a place where you think what's happening to you is about you.

00:17:55.000 It's bigger than that.

00:17:56.900 It's about more people having an opportunity.

00:18:00.520 So I'm really, at this point, just a vessel.

00:18:04.220 I'm just a vessel.

00:18:05.180 I'm just the opportunity, the line for my students to get to where they need to be.

00:18:11.020 So what's your all-time favorite game?

00:18:12.300 Like, what's the game that started all of this for you?

00:18:15.080 Well, I have to go back to Ms. Pac-Man.

00:18:17.160 I'm already trying to figure out a way to get access to that game in my house again so that I can demonstrate to my son that this is real. 0.84

00:18:27.740 Mommy didn't just make up that she was the Ms. Pac-Man champion of her neighborhood.

00:18:32.500 She really was.

00:18:33.340 And I think they want to see that as well.

00:18:38.140 Yeah, I have to tell you something that was really funny that happened.

00:18:41.160 one of my sons really

00:18:43.300 loved TikTok. I mean, he got up to the

00:18:45.320 point with one of his TikTok

00:18:47.280 videos he made. He had 100,000

00:18:49.460 likes, and he was just so excited about that.

00:18:52.540 One of the videos

00:18:53.480 that he and I made together,

00:18:55.200 it was a video of him

00:18:57.200 gaming, and I walked

00:18:59.400 in the room. It was a little later

00:19:01.280 than he was supposed to be up, and 0.99

00:19:03.660 you know, he was just caught redhead. 0.54

00:19:06.000 And so the last segment 0.65

00:19:07.300 of the video showed me

00:19:09.420 actually gaming.

00:19:11.160 And it was so funny. The comments that were posted, kids were like, oh, my gosh, you have the best mom in the world.

00:19:17.880 Your mom is an OG. She's gaming. And I just thought more parents need to spend time gaming with their kids.

00:19:24.820 If this is the kind of response I'm getting to a TikTok video, more parents need to take time to sit out and learn these things.

00:19:33.240 Now, obviously, the controllers now are vastly different from the single hand joystick that we had back in the 80s.

00:19:40.500 So a lot has to be learned.

00:19:43.740 I love it. Gamer girl and cool mom.

00:19:46.880 You know, I have to tell you, my late grandfather went to Johnson C.

00:19:49.880 Smith University and before he passed, going to homecoming every year was a very big part of my family.

00:19:55.620 And he would be so proud to see what you're doing at the university now.

00:19:59.000 That's phenomenal. He would be so proud to know that you even sought me out to interview me.

00:20:03.800 So I can tell you a phenomenal story with you about our Johnson C.

00:20:07.680 Smith University. It's funny because

00:20:09.500 Dr. C. Smith University is really

00:20:11.600 like my second alma mater. I actually

00:20:13.680 graduated from South Carolina State

00:20:15.760 University. Bulldogs

00:20:17.620 to the house.

00:20:19.680 But, you know, I've been at JCSU

00:20:21.980 now, believe it or not, for 17

00:20:23.620 years, 17 years strong, and I love

00:20:25.880 it. Every single day, I

00:20:27.740 feel like I've had an immense impact

00:20:29.860 on the students in our

00:20:31.420 campus community, and so I love that opportunity.

00:20:34.060 It's all about impact and

00:20:35.560 and what we can do to help our future generation.

00:20:39.060 We hope you enjoyed this special celebration

00:20:41.100 of women making change at HBCUs.

00:20:43.540 We'll be back with There Are More, 1.00

00:20:44.920 There Are No Girls on the Internet soon.

00:20:50.040 Got a story about an interesting thing in tech 0.99

00:20:52.080 or just want to say hi?

00:20:53.520 You can reach us at hello at tangody.com.

00:20:55.800 You can also find transcripts for today's episode

00:20:57.640 at tangody.com.

00:20:59.280 There Are No Girls on the Internet was created by me,

00:21:01.120 Bridget Todd.

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00:21:06.780 Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer.

00:21:09.380 Michael Amato is our contributing producer.

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00:21:16.800 For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:21:34.980 I survived nine months in captivity, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.

00:21:43.760 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files.

00:21:47.280 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

00:21:54.900 These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

00:21:58.280 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:22:06.660 If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.

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00:22:30.760 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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There Are No Girls on the Internet - November 12, 2020

BONUS： Esports is for Everyone

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